A couple of brief questions for Shane Parfit...

nicolasb · « **on:** 2 Oct 2003, 11:58 am »

Mr Parfit, if you have a moment, I wonder if you could cast your eye over these:

1) I got the impression at one time that Bryston intended to have the SP1.7 THX Ultra 2 certified (as distinct from the older THX Ultra standard, to which it is already certified). From what I now understand, this is not set to happen in the foreseeable future. Is that an accurate assessment? And is this a question of the SP1.7 not meeting the THX Ultra 2 specification, or simply that you don't feel it is appropriate to spend the time and money to actually go through the certification process?

2) I dimly recall reading something a long while ago which said that when one uses THX EX to extrapolate a surround-back channel from a 5.1 source, THX Ultra uses the Dolby ProLogic algorithm, but THX Ultra 2 uses the Dolby PLII algorithm. Is this remotely accurate, and, if so, could this specific aspect of THX Ultra 2 be implemented in isolation?

3) Do you have any plans to add a "lip synch delay" feature, i.e. a configurable delay measured in hundreds (rather than tens) of milliseconds for all channels that allows the audio to be synchronised with a progressive scan video output?

4) I acknowledge that I quite possibly won't get an answer to this one, as it may well be commercially sensitive, but that's never stopped me before

: at present do you have any idea at all about how far in the future a DSP upgrade for the SP1.7 might be, and which DSP might be involved? (Texas Instruments "Aureus" was suggested at one time).

nicolasb · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Nov 2003, 10:43 am »

(bump)

Any chance Mr Parfit could glance in this direction for a moment...?

gazza982 · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Nov 2003, 01:44 pm »

I'm curious why this thread has gone so long without a response. These are all valid questions and very interesting to all us SP1.7 owners.

Quote

3) Do you have any plans to add a "lip synch delay" feature, i.e. a configurable delay measured in hundreds (rather than tens) of milliseconds for all channels that allows the audio to be synchronised with a progressive scan video output?

I seem to recall that this option was to be included in OS v44, has this been released yet?

James Tanner · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Nov 2003, 08:18 pm »

Hi All,

I will see Shane on Monday and try to get an answer for you on these questions.

james

nicolasb · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Nov 2003, 11:13 am »

stp1200 · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Nov 2003, 05:16 pm »

Sorry for the delay....

1) We intend to have the SP1.7 Ultra 2 certified. This will likely happen with the release of the new DSP. The SP1.7 meets all of the Ultra2 performance specifications, because they are the same as Ultra1. To justify the new product, THX added a couple features to the Ultra1 spec. They added a "Boundary Gain Compensation" (BGC) control which is supposed to reduce the bass build-up effect of putting your subwoofer by the wall or in a corner. This is just a high pass filter with an Fc at 50 Hz. They also added an "Advanced Speaker Array" function, split up into two modes: THX Advanced Cinema Mode and THX MusicMode. In the case of non-EX 5.1 material, the Advanced Cinema Mode helps prevent the collapse of information to the back channels by using some cross cancelling techniques. The MusicMode is exactly the same, but the re-eq filter is disabled. They also provide a control to input the distance between the back two speakers - this is just a level control. I won't give you my opinion on the usefullness or validity of these features, it's up to the customer to decide if they really need it or not. Right now, Ultra2 is not the top priority for Bryston, since it will cost a lot of money and time/resources to implement on the current platform. Right now, we need to focus on the next generation DSP hardware, which will have Ultra2 anyway. Since we have to go through the certification process again with the new DSP, it doesn't really make sense for us (financially) to do it twice.

2) THX Surround EX uses Dolby Digital EX technology to derive the back channels. This is the same with Ultra1 as it is with Ultra2. Version 44 will have the ability to use the Dolby Digital EX decoding without the THX Surround EX post processing. Perhaps you were thinking about the ASA function mentioned above? This can't be implemented in isolation - that would get us in big trouble with THX. In order to be Ultra2 certified, you have to go through the whole certification procedure and have all the required features enable and working properly.

3) This is one of the last features that we need to add for version 44. It's going to take a little more time than we originally thought because the current state of the code doesn't easily allow this. It's the classic case of the difficulty of adding 'post-spec' features. We're going to have to re-code the entire delay management module. In the interest of getting 44 to the consumer quickly, we may push this feature back to a secondary release of 44(b).

4) I can't give you any timeframe. All I can say is that we have started working on it, and it will be the TI DA610 Aureus.

I hope that helps,
sp.

nicolasb · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 12:41 pm »

Cheers, Shane!

Are there any other released details of what will be in version 44 of the software, what will/might be in subsequent versions, and what will accompany the DSP upgrade? We're all thirsty for knowledge!

I must say (assuming that I can actually afford the upgrade here in the UK

) I'm looking forward to seeing what the SP1.7 is capable of with that sort of processing power. I get the feeling that the original SP1 was primarily designed to be a top-notch 5.1-channel analogue pre-amp, with processing added in as secondary priority. (I'm exaggerating, obviously, but you know what I mean).

Compared to other processors the SP1.7 holds up brilliantly on the analogue side of things, but is perhaps just a shade behind the curve on the digital side when compared with the likes of Tag McLaren, Lexicon, Meridian, etc. I calculate that an SP1.7 with a single Aureus chip will have approximately the same processing power as a Tag McLaren AV192R (or dual-processor AV32R). It will be fascinating to see the difference that jumping from 150 MIPS to 1800 MIPS makes, and fascinating to see how the SP1.7 squares up to the opposition on a level digital playing field.

gazza982 · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 04:30 pm »

Have Bryston any plans to alter the method of DSP/OS updates? It must be quite time consuming sending out EPPROMS all over the world.

stp1200 · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Nov 2003, 02:27 pm »

With the new DSP platform, we are looking at methods of upgrading software through S/PDIF, and RS-232. It will be one or the other, or a combination of both.

sp.

gazza982 · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Nov 2003, 04:42 pm »

Thanks Shane for the above information. I agree with NicolasB, at its price point the SP1.7 is way ahead of the competition in the analog domain.

I live in hope that you can sort something out with PMC so that the DSP upgrade can also be carried out here in the UK.

nicolasb · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Nov 2003, 06:29 pm »

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way ahead of the competition in the analog domain

A guy on another forum has been regaling us with how good the Krell Showcase processor supposedly is in bypass mode. I've not listened to it, but the basic design philosophy seems reasonable (pure class A, etc.)

Of the processors I have heard, The SP1.7 is certainly comfortably ahead of the field in terms of its analogue bypass. Even the Lexicon MC12B can't match it in that respect (although unsurprisingly it has other advantages!)

Quote

I live in hope that you can sort something out with PMC so that the DSP upgrade can also be carried out here in the UK.

Hear hear!

Or at least so that it can be carried out a bit more cheaply!

Soundwave · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Oct 2004, 05:14 pm »

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum, and not a Bryston owner yet. But last week I listen to a SP1.7, and ...

So now I'm willing to buy this beauty, but how far is Bryston with the new version? There is not much talk about it.

And maybe James could answer this one, will the new unit also be without the video stuff?

Thanks,

Soundwave

James Tanner · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Oct 2004, 09:07 pm »

HI All,

No immediate plans to change the SP1.7 - we are waiting to see where the hi-res digital issue is going first.

James

Adz523 · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Oct 2004, 01:48 am »

Hi James,

Can you provide some more background on this?
EDIT:
Perhaps I need to elaborate given the non-response:
Given Mr. Parfitt's post of almost 1 year ago which showed a lot of promise and excitement to the Bryston loyalists, just curious if you could provide some more detail of the upgrades being considered by Bryston and its Engineering team AND in their opinion where they think the hi-res digital issue is going first and by when.

Bryston certainly differentiates itself on the analog side and makes a powerful statement by not having any video section to its processor, but it would be nice to hear it mentioned in the same discussion as its other contemporaries at the similar price point such as Halo C1/2, Arcam AV8, Meridian, etc. - AS IT CERTAINLY DESERVES TO BE!

Adz523 · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Oct 2004, 12:06 am »

I posted an EDIT above to my post from Tuesday.

James Tanner · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Nov 2004, 11:10 pm »

Hi - Shane was at the AESro show with me so I will forward this post to him.

james

Adz523 · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Nov 2004, 03:04 am »

If you wouldn't mind - that's great James!
I was beginning to think that the uncomfortable silence meant either nobody wanted to address such a basic yet critical question or everyone ditched the forum.

stp1200 · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Nov 2004, 06:38 pm »

Wow, was that a year ago? Everything I said then is still true now. For a short list of our most-asked-for features:

THX Ultra 2 is in.
PLIIx is in.
DTS 96/24 is in.
Multiple Crossover Frequencies are in.
Matrix decoding from 96kHz sources is in.

And the best part is that we'll be able to support you like never before with firmware updates via RS232 and DSP updates via SPDIF. As it stands now, the DA610 has tons of extra horsepower for any new formats that might show up. I know there are probably going to be more questions about this, so I'll try to monitor this board over the next week or so.

sp.

jimmyp58 · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Nov 2004, 10:29 pm »

Any timetable on this Shane?

Jim

thomaspf · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Nov 2004, 10:39 pm »

Is this an DSP update only or are also plans to upgrade the DACs and digital interfaces to support higher resolution formats?

24/192 on coax?
DVD-A on 1394 or HDMI (2ch 24/192 and multichannel modes?)
SACD on 1394

Any plans around better decoupling the DAC clock from the input signal or in lack of that maybe a master clock input?

Cheers

Thomas