[2bigears]

  welllll my audio buddy from Toronto called up and said if you don't buy 5k worth of table and arm you are just spinnin' records for fun.he is trying to sell me his SME 20/2  with a 5 arm.this is of course will seal the divorce with the wife,but easy come easy go i quess also a VPI SSM on the Gon that looks real good....the big black pizza will spin soon enough ????

[TheChairGuy]

wow, you're making major leaps into fantastic playback now with talk of an SME 20 and VPI SuperScoutMaster.

Your buddy is clearly one that believes that the last 5% in performance is worth paying for......tho I consider myself so fortunate that I could buy those pricey analog toys without it denting my lifestyle or crimping my budget in any significant way.....my faux-Puritan side just won't let me do it 

The difference in $1000 and $5000 in equipment is probably 5-10% (I mean, they all play music for gosh sakes!) - but that's why we are audio/vinylphools

However, I have an income goal (mine is very changeable year to year) in mind myself and if I ever reach that lofty perch.....I've already said I will be upgrading my TT / front end and pre-amp...the only 2 items in my chain that I think are lagging a bit and holding back ultimate resolution of the system.

Let me/us know how life on the sweet side of analog life is, 2BE 

John 

[doug s.]

  welllll my audio buddy from Toronto called up and said if you don't buy 5k worth of table and arm you are just spinnin' records for fun.he is trying to sell me his SME 20/2  with a 5 arm.this is of course will seal the divorce with the wife,but easy come easy go i quess also a VPI SSM on the Gon that looks real good....the big black pizza will spin soon enough ????

your "buddy", imo, is trying to make a sale.     if you really want top-level performance, buy the maplenoll ariadne adwertized on the canuck audiomart, & save the extra cash...  if i had the space & time, i'd buy it, but at this point in my life, i have to stick w/my present set-up...  which is damned near close to top-performance anyways, imo...

doug s.

[2bigears]

  well here is the latest findings,,,,buy my pals SME with no stylus,,,,buy a new hot-rodded VPI Aries 3 WITH 10.5 and a 1k stylus,,,, both will run about 7 or 8 grand.lotta cabbage if you say it slow.another way was to simply get a new Clear Audio Performance Package with the new mag bearing and a Mistro stylus it comes with,all in for 2900 bucks.200 extra for a good clamp.this package is from what i have been told is very good for the dollar.anyone heard these Clear Audio tables ???? thks

[doug s.]

well here is the latest findings,,,,buy my pals SME with no stylus,,,,buy a new hot-rodded VPI Aries 3 WITH 10.5 and a 1k stylus,,,, both will run about 7 or 8 grand.lotta cabbage if you say it slow.another way was to simply get a new Clear Audio Performance Package with the new mag bearing and a Mistro stylus it comes with,all in for 2900 bucks.200 extra for a good clamp.this package is from what i have been told is very good for the dollar.anyone heard these Clear Audio tables ???? thks

nice deck, but you can do a lot better buying used - like the oracles, & the maplenoll i linked.  but, it is your dime.  i liked this for $800; didn't take long for it to sell:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1214615294


doug s.

[Tyrro]

I'll be probably selling my TT setup in 2-3 weeks if you don't mind waiting.

Here's what I have:

Nottingham Interspace TT - $600
Expressimo RB 250 Tonearm + Custom made VTAF Adjuster by Peter Riggle (you can read more about it here: http://www.vtaf.com/) - $550
Shelter 501 II MC cartridge - $500
Ray Samuels Emmeline XR-2 MC/MM Phono Pre-amp - $850 (if you're not familiar with his products, here's a link: http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/xr-2)

Everything is in excellent working condition. I can post or email you photos if you're interested. Let me know.

[2bigears]

  OK,this site is named right for me as i do go round in circles .... anyway,long question-------if i spent 1600 bucks [plus stylus] on a full mod Technics SL-1210 M5GSE,[better tonearm-wand wiring,tonearm fluid damper,outboard p/s,threaded record clamp,strobe disabler,better rca connectors,iso feet ?????? and not sure what stylus to mount here ??????  would i be entering vinyl in a good way ????   soooo,bout 2k spent on a new rig. please stay with me boys as i am exploring this new medium to be.... thks  Pat     ----------what say you vinyl vampires,need a vinyl spinner soon !!!! -------

[doug s.]

  OK,this site is named right for me as i do go round in circles .... anyway,long question-------if i spent 1600 bucks [plus stylus] on a full mod Technics SL-1210 M5GSE,[better tonearm-wand wiring,tonearm fluid damper,outboard p/s,threaded record clamp,strobe disabler,better rca connectors ?????? and not sure what stylus to mount here ??????  would i be entering vinyl in a good way ????   soooo,bout 2k spent on a new rig. please stay with me boys as i am exploring this new medium to be.... thks  Pat

if you want a technics, this is better, imo.  and at asking price of $1150, cheaper, too:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1212782948


doug s.

[2bigears]

   Doug,i know you like the old iron better,but the new table for a few more bucks is completly set-up,bugs removed,tested,ready to spin.think i may give it a go.

[TheChairGuy]

It's a good move, tbe...Kevin at KAB will set you up right and it'll work from the get-go outta' the box.

It'll cost you less than $1600 as if you're going to do the tonearm re-wiring, you need not spend for the M5G model (with updated wiring from the factory).  The MK. II, at $150 or so cheaper, would be the right option to go for (again, Kevin will give you the right scoop for your needs).

You'd probably be hard-pressed to find demonstrably better for $2K new, frankly.  For a bunch more maybe - but not for less than $2K new.

Assuming he ships you Canuck'er types 

John

[doug s.]

  Doug,i know you like the old iron better,but the new table for a few more bucks is completly set-up,bugs removed,tested,ready to spin.think i may give it a go.

not a bad deal, but not what i would do - i prefer to get more bang for my buck.  it's not that i like the "old iron" better, it's that i like the "better iron" better!   

i also like the o-l rega arms; i would go for the kab deck w/o any arm upgrades, & get the o-l armboard & o-l arm for the kabusa sl1200...

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/dj-armboard.htm


http://www.tonearm.co.uk/tonearm.htm


doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

Doug's suggestion is a good one, however, it is not for the uninitiated (such as yourself).

I have bought a Technics SL-1200, lopped out the stock tonearm and replaced with an Origin Live armboard and an Origin Live arm.  Tho technically not difficult - it is not for newbies 

I think the full-bore SL-1200 from KAB will suit you fine....and you will need to spend considerably more to substantially better it in most ways.  It'll arrive (substantially) ready to play by only inserting the IC leads into a capable phono stage (after putting it on a good hard, relatively vibration-free surface) 

Then sit back and enjoy a bit instead of fretting about your next move upwards in the vinyl chain.  You'll be treated to better sounds at $1500 in Technics/KAB turntable creation than you will for 10x that amount spent for CD/Redbook.  Or, perhaps any amount spent on CD/Redbook - depending on what is valued.

Regards, John

[lcrim]

The Origin Live arm would be at best a sideways step.  The Technics 12XX arm is only maligned by those who have not used it.  The Origin Live arm as it is based on the Rega arm can't be damped and is a trial in comparison to adjust.  If you are getting the Cardas rewire and damping tray from KAB, you are way ahead.
I am happy to agree with John, which is somewhat rare, get the 12XX from KAB, with all the mods and then you can relax and enjoy your analog front end.  You can even use a Grado cartridge.  I would recommend the Isoplatmat and a Herbies mat as well.

[2bigears]

   thks guys,you are the best.Kevin is not for arm replacement.he does like the better wire that comes with the 1210M5 model.i am going to scoop a table here 3 hours away and add all his mods myself as they look easy enough.the only thing now is to pick a stylus,there is a dealer here that sells the Shelter 501,was wondering if that would be a good start ???? my pre does take both,mm or mc .....

[lcrim]

Kevin does a comprehensive exam of every table he sells, which is an absolute necessity IMO.  He may charge a slightly higher price than the local discounter but you get what you pay for.  This is a no brainer to me.

[2bigears]

    tvad4 ,noted and thks   seeing how i just saved 5k bucks,a good stylus will be sweet

[Tyrro]

There's nothing wrong with Shelter cartridges, if you would try one you wouldn't be telling this.
Quite the opposite, just read the reviews from different people. My reason is I'm just getting out of analog and need to sell my rig. Otherwise I'd never sell it, and if I'd do an upgrade I'd buy Zyx but it's much more expensive cartridge.

I actually tried Benz Ace and although it's a very good cartridge at the end I preferred Shelter - more full bodied and balanced sound.

So, PLEASE don't judge a product just because you see people sell their stuff.

Benz Micro Ace Medium (MC) or Audio Technica 150MLX (MM).

Skip the Shelter. I see people routinely selling their Shelter 501 carts. There must be a reason.

I also strongly recommend either the Sumiko or ZuPreme adjustable headshells for the SL12xx. Ability to adjust azimuth is a must for any turntable.

[TheChairGuy]

The Origin Live arm would be at best a sideways step.  The Technics 12XX arm is only maligned by those who have not used it.  The Origin Live arm as it is based on the Rega arm can't be damped and is a trial in comparison to adjust.  If you are getting the Cardas rewire and damping tray from KAB, you are way ahead.
I am happy to agree with John, which is somewhat rare, get the 12XX from KAB, with all the mods and then you can relax and enjoy your analog front end.  You can even use a Grado cartridge.  I would recommend the Isoplatmat and a Herbies mat as well.

I find myself in agreement with my co-Fac a lot...tho he, not me - how can that be?  ('cause he's fiesty and grumpy alot - but, I still profess my love for him )

The Isoplatmat and Herbie's Way Excellent Mat will be excellent, relatively inexpensive upgrade path when you'd like.  Tho Tehnics has pretty much licked the QC gremlins after nearly 30 years making the deck, but having an experienced hand like Kevin checking the table out beforehand is a nice touch. 

I can tell you from the much used table I bought....years of hard use (if you are thinking used) do unseat the motors from the rests and make the deck more vibration-prone.  I think that is the case with mine.

I also agree with the finicky tvad4 (nice to have you back!) - azimuth is waaay more important than much-more-ballyhooed VTA for cartridges...especially the fine line, hyperelliptical and shibata types.  However, you can twist the cartridge in the arm 'bayonet' a little bit to dial in azimuth by sight, too, with decent results.

I think Shelter's are ellipticals - and a bit less prone to azimuth issues.

Nonetheless, before you do either the mats or new, pricey headshell...a good Nitty Gritty or KAB EV-1 record cleaning machine is in order 

Ciao, John

[rollypolly]

I guess I got here a little late but for what it's worth I've gone digital and I'm unloading the last of my analog gear that includes the Well Tempered Turntable Classic as pictured below.









I live a stones throw from Toronto so if you have any regrets let me know otherwise I'll be taking it down to Applause Audio in Toronto to have it sold.

Cheers!
Rolly

[mmakshak]

  I used to be able to hear it when a direct drive TT was being used.  The music had less flow.  Now, I also could tell when digital was in the chain, and I've since learned that some music can come through on digital.  I, personally, would avoid direct-drives.  I did hear some great dance music in a club, and I'm sure the TT was direct-drive(probably Technics).