AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: rcjordin on 28 Jan 2008, 10:29 pm
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James,
I read in either Home Theater Magazine or Perfect Vision that at CES someone at Bryston's display said there was a new pre/pro in the works. Can you you shed any light on the topic? :drool:
Thanks,
Robert
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There's some info in this thread if you haven't already seen it:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=49583.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=49583.0)
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Surprisingly not many of us are discussing / speculating in depth about SP3. :o
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Surprisingly not many of us are discussing / speculating in depth about SP3. :o
hi, cmreddy!
you are right somehow...i think there are a lot of ac members out there interested in the sp3 developments.
so any suggestions on what the new monster machine should look like and what functions it should include??
al.
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I am totally new to the Bryston world. Infact very new to the Pre Pro world.. My passport to this magic kingdom at the moment is Focal Electra BE (BE for beauties) speakers and Arcam AVR 250 (I am out of funds by now). So I am kind of learning on the job at my own expense. :)
I have been reading the posts for a while here to figure out what is important in a processor and a an multi channel amp. May be James Tanner could chime in now and then to update us pro actively (as a matter of fact he does on somethings) with the tit bits on SP3.
And added to that, the previous owners of SP1, 1.7 and 2 could suggest improvements and wish list. For me I would want all the HD sound codecs should be decoded in the new SP3.
Ladies & gentlemen, the floor is opened for discussion.. :)
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I totally agree. I purchased a SP1.7 with the idea that i could upgrade to the newer HD formats as they become available. I'm interested to see what Bryston will deliver in this regard. I'm sure the SP3 will be a great product. My only hope is that the sp1.7 will also be supported when this happens.
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I totally agree. I purchased a SP1.7 with the idea that i could upgrade to the newer HD formats as they become available. I'm interested to see what Bryston will deliver in this regard. I'm sure the SP3 will be a great product. My only hope is that the sp1.7 will also be supported when this happens.
Customers of Bryston unwittingly assume that the products can be upgraded without any limits. But, there was a thread in which, James indicated reasonable doubt that 1.7 may not be upgraded to include HDMI and left some room for speculation for upgrading SP2 with HDMI. I believe most of the second hand SP 1.7s are still being bought in anticipation of upgrading to include HDMI. May be there should be an official statement on the Bryston website as what is possible and what is not.
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Here is the thread that addressed the upgrading of SP 1.7 & SP 2 with HDMI inputs.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=35196.0
But lets not loose the focus of giving our wish list as to what we would like in SP3.
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Officially - I do not know if SP1.7's or SP2's will be upgradable. The new HD decoder chips and interface connections will not be available till March or April of this year.
We intended to build the SP3 with all the new technologies available and then try and see if we can filter down these new technologies in a cost effective way to the SP2 and SP1.7. I am hoping we can salvage the analog sections of the SP2 and add a new Digital board to allow for HD formats. At some point the technology changes in fundamental ways which simply negate the ability to adapt older technologies to new. I truly do not know if the filter down will be doable until we have an SP3 working and can assess what is possible.
We are at least a year away from a finished SP3.
Hope this helps.
james
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Surprisingly not many of us are discussing / speculating in depth about SP3. :o
....i'm definitely hoping it will be my first non-amp piece of kit from Bryston. I'd like to see
a one box solution w/ the exception of video section.
Perhaps maybe a 'sticky thread' where we could track SP-3.0 status/development updates
from James & questions/suggestions related to that in one location would be good?
Andy
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Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P (http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC885P&class=Preamplifier&p=), or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100 (http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214&CatID=17&SubCatID=165). Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.
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Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P (http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC885P&class=Preamplifier&p=), or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100 (http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214&CatID=17&SubCatID=165). Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.
Hi All,
So far we are thinking:
1. 3 or 4 rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in
Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors
james
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USB connector for something like an MP3 player on the front and/or back.
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Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P (http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC885P&class=Preamplifier&p=), or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100 (http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214&CatID=17&SubCatID=165). Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.
Hi All,
So far we are thinking:
1. 3 or 4 rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in
Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors
james
- usb at the front and back are very useful
- 2 pairs of analog balanced in would be nice
- aes/ebu in (without ''deleting'' the coax connector if in use)
- optical and coax front in
- headphone in
- phono mm/mc option
- bigger display
- outboard power supply yes- if it will be the mps 2 and if it will better the sound
- tape loop
al.
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I don't know if these items have been fixed on the SP-2.0. If not it would be nice to have the following in an SP-3.0:
- fixed right front and rear channel test tone
- sub-woofer test tone low-passed at 120 or 150 Hz
- retain SPV-1 compatibility
- better on-screen/SPV-1 response
- sturdier chassis which doesn't twist
- 1/8" stereo plugs for the 12-volt turn-on
In addition it might be nice to have a preset volume at power-on to aviod those nasty surprises.
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......re the outboard p/s...what about having both an integrated p/s & also the connector for the external such that the SP-3.0 could be ordered either way?
I wonder if having a separate p/s would deflect some potential customers away?.....i mean where the marketing base may be much broader with a surround pre/pro
compared to some of the more specialized gear in the Bryston line that do have the discrete p/s.
andy
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Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P (http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC885P&class=Preamplifier&p=), or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100 (http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214&CatID=17&SubCatID=165). Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.
Hi All,
So far we are thinking:
1. 3 or 4 rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in
Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors
james
- usb at the front and back are very useful
- 2 pairs of analog balanced in would be nice
- aes/ebu in (without ''deleting'' the coax connector if in use)
- optical and coax front in
- headphone in
- phono mm/mc option
- bigger display
- outboard power supply yes- if it will be the mps 2 and if it will better the sound
- tape loop
al.
james,
- remote control can operate other bryston components ( vol.up/down, mute). more functions like input selection on bda-1 would be cool.
- what about ipod connectivity? as bryston is probably already interested in an external docking station this might be an option.
al. :wink:
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- usb at the front and back are very useful
- 2 pairs of analog balanced in would be nice
- aes/ebu in (without ''deleting'' the coax connector if in use)
- optical and coax front in
- headphone in
- phono mm/mc option
- bigger display
- outboard power supply yes- if it will be the mps 2 and if it will better the sound
- tape loop
Hi there!
I too like the USB front/back idea and as a SP-2 PRO owner would definitely opt for at least one AES/EBU input, better two - I am thinking about my modified Denon DVD3930 DVD-Player and the Logitech/Slim Devices Transporter that I just ordered, both having AES/EBU outputs... :wink:
If an external power supply improves the sound quality, I would say go for it. I would recommend that Bryston did some listening tests and decided for the best sounding alternative - just as with the BCD-1 that ended up having an internal power supply.
Having a separate HDMI-switcher that strips the digital audio signal and passes it - maybe in a proprietary format that is jitter-free - to the head unit for decoding sounds like a "That's how Bryston could do it"-solution.
Keeping video signals out of the head unit - due to the effect on the noise floor - I was wondering whether the digital signal that is at high frequencies as well does something similar to the noise floor! Would a separate digital section improve sound quality? Or should the digital section reside in the HDMI switch enclosure?
Another thing that came to my mind regarding a SP-3 is the question about a true 7.1 analog pass through. Currently the multi channel pass through on the SP-1.7 and SP-2 runs through the digital section. Only the 2 channel bypass uses the analog ALPS potentiometer. Would an 8 channel ALPS poti be an option? Should the SP-3 have an "old fashioned" potentiometer or a discrete resistor based electronic volume control, just like a B-100 or BP-16?
On the things to improve on the SP-2, I'd appreciate a faster lock on the digital input signal. Currently, the unit kills the first 1/2 sec of a song since most sources cut the S/PDIF stream briefly when changing tracks. Maybe an input buffer would be a possible solution, i.e. the SP-3 would play everything with a brief delay, but it would have time to adjust to the input signal and could play back right from the beginning of a track. Maybe the buffering would also improve sound quality!? Being at delaying signals, a lip sync delay feature would be nice as well.
Regarding HDMI switching: a question that arises is whether the switching of HDMI sources should be independent from the sound selection on the SP-3. Further, would the two outputs of the switcher carry the same signal and resolution or would the switcher offer matrix switching and/or some kind of resolution conversion?
The phono option sounds interesting as well.
Although the display is one of the very few things on Bryston digital products that is criticized by reviewers - I am not so sure whether the display is that important, compared to the sound quality. (may be I am biased in this point since my Bryston display is on my Crestron touch panel remote control... :wink:)
With the iPod idea I am not so sure whether Bryston is the company that should offer this. The iPods are new every year. Things on the protocol and connectors might change and Bryston - although trying hard - hasn't always been successful in quickly developing new software to accommodate changes. E.g., the SP-2 has been out for a while now, but Bryston hasn't managed to develop a software specific to the PRO version until now... :roll:
Regarding remote control, I would opt for a bi-directional RS-232 and/or an ethernet port to grant access for Crestron control systems and the like. Having an ethernet port one could also implement a web interface for setup control - and eliminate the need for an on-screen display.
That's my two cents for today.
Cheers!
Markus
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I have always loved Bryston products and always recommend to others. The main reason I went with my SP1.7 was being led to believe I was "future proof". Obviously technology marches on & changes are needed for the better. I am very happy I didn't upgrade to SP2 as it would have been a waste. Was foolishly holding out for the new stuff. If there is no upgrade path to SP3 than I'll sell my SP1.7 & go with the new B&K or Integra 9.8. with Benchmark or something. My expectations wont be as high therefore happier in the long run.
If there is an upgrade path I will remain a loyal customer & advocate. For those of you who will just get the new one, I wish I had your disposable income.
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Same here - sitting with a SP1.7. I will see what is upgradable or not before I make a decision. While I don't hate multi-channel music, I prefer 2-channel most of the time and it would not be a big deal for me to suffer with the SP1.7 and use the multi-channel input for a Blu-Ray player at some point and move the cables to my Marantz DV9600 universal player when I wanted to hear SACD or DVD-A. I'd just be limited to 5.1 which also is not a big deal to me. I already use my 4 Rel subs for bass management anyway (2 Storm IIIs on the mains, a Q150 on the center and a Strata III on the rears) so that would not be an issue to me. That being said, I would love some upgrade path with something that had a few more HT features and flexible inputs (e.g. balanced, USB). I was also led to believe the SP1.7 was future proof. When I bought the BCD-1 my local dealer was trying to suggest I should buy the SP2 and sell the SP1.7 and I said why? He really couldn't give a good answer when I told him that neither may be able to be upgraded. In my situation the main system backs to the bedroom system and using the analog outs of a player would give me an option to use HDMI video in the main system (need a new projector first) and HDMI audio and video in the bedroom system (have a 42 inch LCD with HDMI and just need a new rec'r) so it is also not the end of the world.
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I have always loved Bryston products and always recommend to others. The main reason I went with my SP1.7 was being led to believe I was "future proof". Obviously technology marches on & changes are needed for the better. I am very happy I didn't upgrade to SP2 as it would have been a waste. Was foolishly holding out for the new stuff. If there is no upgrade path to SP3 than I'll sell my SP1.7 & go with the new B&K or Integra 9.8. with Benchmark or something. My expectations wont be as high therefore happier in the long run.
If there is an upgrade path I will remain a loyal customer & advocate. For those of you who will just get the new one, I wish I had your disposable income.
..nothing is 'future proof' really & at some point technology advances enough where hardware 'retro-active engineering' isn't possible nor economically viable....you simply have to go to a new chassis. A monetary upgrade path ala Lexicon i suppose may or may not be a possibility if SP-2/1.7 turns out to be non-upgradable.
I wouldn't give a lot of credit to companies like 'Integra' either....they have made big 'promises' of their gear being 'future proof' even going as far as putting 'Nostradamus' :lol: in the adverts for some of their platforms. I purchased an Integra Research pre/pro the RDC-7.1...this is the top tier audio product of the Onkyo/Integra group...it even has a cardslot/motherboard design...all inputs etc are on different user installable card slot boards...very nice piece of gear, beautiful sound & a price to match..4.5-5Kusd 2 years ago. The promise was with the purpose built card slot engineered design any changes could be built into a card and added later....great concept....that's about it. No further devel than HDMI 1.1....ie no hirez audio over HDMI ever, due to a fundamental bandwitdh problem
with the motherboard at the hdmi daughter board slot location...nice try Integra, Nostradamus is rolling over in his grave. :lol:
Actually i would choose that Onkyo Pro 885 pre/pro...same as Integra 9.8 functionally and electronically, but a much cleaner design.......but i refuse to give Onkyo/Onkyo-Pro/Integra/Integra-Research another dime...but that's just me.
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I beg to deffer with the notion that nothing is future proof in this business because there's one brand that has proven to be just that. It is challenging for manufacturers to live up to their claim of future proofing in the ever evolving digital world. Ultimately, in most cases it boils down to nothing more than marketing hypobole and rhetoric. In my nearly two decades of dabling in this business, one brand has stood out in living up to their claim of future proofing. 'Muse Electronics'. I started with their 'model 9' eight years ago and have progressed ever since through to DVDA then the addition of SACD and hopefully soon to their HDMI capable 'Erato 11'. I am currently using the 'Polyhymnia' with 'Bryston' power amplification i.e. 14B & 6B SST. A match made in heaven. Muses upgrade path has always proven effortless at a more than reasonable price. Performance can easily be compared with the best of the best, if a side-by-side comparison is made.
DF
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I fully understand why the SP3 won't be backward compatible. I hope I am wrong and there will be some sort of lifeline to cling on to. Ever since I was a kid looking at the old sound & vision my lifelong goal was to own "Bryston". Obviously there is a huge difference between digital & analog (ST to SST amplifiers) making changes difficult. I have to admit the 20 yr warranty for a Pre/Pro was a huge factor in my decision. Made me feel good about purchase combined with upgrade path if needed. We all know the new DTS & Dolby formats will be better & I want them. I remember comparing a 720p Runco (13500.00 cdn.) to a new at the time PTA E1000 1080P Panasonic (5000.00cdn.) No contest when you fed 1080p bluray source Panasonic Blu it (Runco) away. You see where I am going here.
The ultimate is Bryston Pre/pro for both music & movies but it looks like the road stops here, when funds are limited. They should have a place in the desert for old relics like SP1.7 , Proceed , etc!
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Hi All,
So far we are thinking:
1. 3 or 4 rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in
Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors
james
Having the option to put the video switcher in the top rack space sounds good. I'd also suggest an inboard power supply.
Other connectors - could there be two sets of 5.1 unbalanced ins and one set of 5.1 balanced ins as well ?
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Well, March has come and (almost) gone: any news on the HDMI-upgrade potential of SP1.7 and SP2 processors?
Incidentally, a note to those who feel it is unreasonable to expect the SP1.7 and SP2 to be upgradeable: the reason we were expecting them to be upgradeable is because Bryston repeatedly told us that they would be. Just do a search on this forum and you will find not one but many occasions where James Tanner and others explicitly refer to an HDMI upgrade for the SP2, and without any qualification to suggest that this might not be available to the (functionally identical) upgraded SP1.7. Indeed, if you go all the way back to when it was first suggested that they would use the "Aureus" DSP (long before it was even decided that there was going to be an "SP2") Bryston was happy to say that one of the main reasons for the upgrade was that they needed a chip with enough "horsepower" to be able to decode next-generation "HD" audio formats - something which cannot be properly done without HDMI input.
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Well, March has come and (almost) gone: any news on the HDMI-upgrade potential of SP1.7 and SP2 processors?
Incidentally, a note to those who feel it is unreasonable to expect the SP1.7 and SP2 to be upgradeable: the reason we were expecting them to be upgradeable is because Bryston repeatedly told us that they would be. Just do a search on this forum and you will find not one but many occasions where James Tanner and others explicitly refer to an HDMI upgrade for the SP2, and without any qualification to suggest that this might not be available to the (functionally identical) upgraded SP1.7. Indeed, if you go all the way back to when it was first suggested that they would use the "Aureus" DSP (long before it was even decided that there was going to be an "SP2") Bryston was happy to say that one of the main reasons for the upgrade was that they needed a chip with enough "horsepower" to be able to decode next-generation "HD" audio formats - something which cannot be properly done without HDMI input.
Hi All,
As I continue to state - I will not know if upgrades are available to the SP2 until we build the SP3 and see what can be filtered down. Sadly we still have not received the HD chips from our supplier to see what can be done .
What we assumed would be possible if past statements was based on what I was aware of at that time. I am sorry but things do change outside of our control. We will obviously do our best to offer any and all possible upgrades to our customers.
james
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Well, March has come and (almost) gone: any news on the HDMI-upgrade potential of SP1.7 and SP2 processors?
Incidentally, a note to those who feel it is unreasonable to expect the SP1.7 and SP2 to be upgradeable: the reason we were expecting them to be upgradeable is because Bryston repeatedly told us that they would be. Just do a search on this forum and you will find not one but many occasions where James Tanner and others explicitly refer to an HDMI upgrade for the SP2, and without any qualification to suggest that this might not be available to the (functionally identical) upgraded SP1.7. Indeed, if you go all the way back to when it was first suggested that they would use the "Aureus" DSP (long before it was even decided that there was going to be an "SP2") Bryston was happy to say that one of the main reasons for the upgrade was that they needed a chip with enough "horsepower" to be able to decode next-generation "HD" audio formats - something which cannot be properly done without HDMI input.
Hi All,
As I continue to state - I will not know if upgrades are available to the SP2 until we build the SP3 and see what can be filtered down. Sadly we still have not received the HD chips from our supplier to see what can be done .
What we assumed would be possible if past statements was based on what I was aware of at that time. I am sorry but things do change outside of our control. We will obviously do our best to offer any and all possible upgrades to our customers.
james
James, thanks for the update. A lot of us with SP1.7s are in the same boat. If the BP26 had HT bypass I might have sold my SP1.7 by now and lived with the fact that a receiver is the way to go for HT as it is obvious that time wise Bryston can't do things as fast as mass market cos. and I care about 2-channel more than I do about multi-channel or HT. It is actually holding up a couple of more things for me, including a Blu-Ray player and what to do about the bedroom system that sits on the other side of the wall to the main system. I don't have room for more components in the bedroom and depending upon what happens with the SP1.7 will impact the decision on a new rec'r (e.g. whether I get one with Dolby True HD or not and just live with Dolby Digital). My current bedroom rec'r is 7 yrs. old.
James, do you think it is possible to give us regular updates? It is the end of March now - something like the end of June, end of September, end of December. I think it will avoid some of the constant questions and serve to give us some progress. Thanks
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Sure -would be glad to give monthly updates if that helps. Believe me it is very frustrating at our end as well when suppliers do not live up to their delivery dates.
james
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I am also interested in the HDMI update for my SP2. I'm starting to think about an HD player now that the format war is over.
I recently installed a 3 channel amp in my system and looking at the back of the SP2, I think the prime area for (1) in and (1) out HDMI connectors would be the 2 toslinks space. I would be glad to give up those inputs that I never use to have an updated processor.
Finding space inside for the new HD chip panel is another story, but I am confident your technicians can make a go of it after the SP3 is worked out. If not there will be many, (including myself) disappointed SP2 owners out there.
DM
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I am also interested in the HDMI update for my SP2. I'm starting to think about an HD player now that the format war is over.
I recently installed a 3 channel amp in my system and looking at the back of the SP2, I think the prime area for (1) in and (1) out HDMI connectors would be the 2 toslinks space. I would be glad to give up those inputs that I never use to have an updated processor.
Finding space inside for the new HD chip panel is another story, but I am confident your technicians can make a go of it after the SP3 is worked out. If not there will be many, (including myself) disappointed SP2 owners out there.
DM
I concur, but it is not really the equipment manufacturers that control things. I don't watch much TV (no cable or satellite but get HD over-the-air). My 6+ yr. old Sharp 9000 projector still looks great and I think I only have a bit under 1,400 hrs. on the original bulb but w/o HDMI (or even DVI) it is out-of-date (and probably my next major audio/video purchase will be a projector). My 64 inch rear proj. in the basement system which mainly gets used for (daytime over-the-air) sports on weekends is in the same boat. Probably a small but decent part of what killed off hi-rez audio (SACD or DVD-A) with the mass market was the initial lack of a single digital connection. I had to go over someone's house last Sat. to hook up a Direct TV box to their rec'r (which I sold them many moons ago - old Onkyo 828 I had in the bedroom system) which is not all that difficult to take a composite video and stereo audio signal out of - they had the cables you couldn't figure it out. I went over another friend's house to finally hook the monitor output of his rec'r into his TV and set the levels. He hadn't even done that in years of owning the rec'r. Requiring the avg. person (not someone into the hobby) to have to deal with multiple cables, new software, special players, competing formats, etc., was not a good move. DVD-V could have allowed 24/96 stereo, Dolby Digital for the avg. consumer, etc., without the need for a new format. The expiring royalties on CD technology is what pushed the involved players (studios) to control the next format to have royalty streams.
I hope that Bryston can do something vs. leaving us out in the cold. While I do understand things are beyond their control, it certainly has to weigh upon people's decisions that perhaps HT processor technology is best looked for elsewhere. That's why I previously asked about HT bypass on the BP26 (which James indicated is not possible at present and would take a re-design of the product) as I thought that would be a good solution to having quality 2-channel and be able to get the lastest and greatest on home theater. If something changed down the road I could always rotate equipment between my main, bedroom and basement system. When I got my Bryston CD player I moved my old Micromega DuoPro DAC (hooked to both Sony 2000ES SACD/CD changer and an Oppo 980) to the bedroom system and that still sounds quite good.
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Sure -would be glad to give monthly updates if that helps. Believe me it is very frustrating at our end as well when suppliers do not live up to their delivery dates.
Tell us who the suppliers are and we'll send them threatening letters if you like. :green:
Monthly updates would be very welcome. :thumb:
Hi All,
As I continue to state - I will not know if upgrades are available to the SP2 until we build the SP3 and see what can be filtered down. Sadly we still have not received the HD chips from our supplier to see what can be done .
While the issue of "will the processors be upgradeable?" is still an unknown, you might, if you felt so inclined, make a firm commitment now as to what you intend to do if it turns out that they aren't upgradeable. As in "If it turns out that there is no way to upgrade an SP1.7 to decode DTS-HD, we will instead insititute the following trade-in policy for SP1.7 owners..." or whatever.
The problem SP1.7 owners face now is that holding onto an SP1.7 is a financially risky decision. If it turns out that my SP1.7 can be upgraded to combine SP2 processing capability with one or (if possible) 2 HDMI inputs, then it will make sense to hold onto it and get it upgraded (depending on the upgrade cost). If it won't be upgradeable it would make sense to sell it.
The problem is the timing: if I wait to find out whether it will be upgradeable or not, and it turns that it isn't, then by that time it will have been massively devalued compared with what I could make for it if I sold it now; that would happen partly because the launch of the SP3 would make it a doubly-obsolete product, and partly because the release of the information that it cannot be upgraded would, in itself, greatly damage its value. If I knew that I would not lose out financially by holding on to the SP1.7 until after the upgradeability announcement, I would be comfortable waiting. A good trade-in policy would offer that comfort.
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Hi All,
OK - worst case lets say we decide to offer an exchange - what do you think would be the best way to structure it?
james
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that's what i didn't dare to ask for...but for all sp owners it would be the sweetest case, i think.
what do you mean exactly on ''how to structure it'' ? i assume you don't want suggestions for inpus/outputs for the new sp3, 'cause we already talked about that (digital/analog xlr ins/outs, usb, external power supply and so on...)
alex.
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that's what i didn't dare to ask for...but for all sp owners it would be the sweetest case, i think.
what do you mean exactly on ''how to structure it'' ? i assume you don't want suggestions for inpus/outputs for the new sp3, 'cause we already talked about that (digital/analog xlr ins/outs, usb, external power supply and so on...)
alex.
Hi,
By structure I mean how do we price the trade-in value and how do we keep everyone (dealer , Bryston, customer) happy?
james
james
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tough question, james. most of us are not businessmen i think. has there ever been a compareable thing happened to bryston?
an exchange ever in the company's history?
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tough question, james. most of us are not businessmen i think. has there ever been a compareable thing happened to bryston?
an exchange ever in the company's history?
Hi Alex,
No - this would be a first.
james
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I would think it would haveto be pro rated for age somehow... Just some thoughts here;
0-3 month's say 70% towards the MSRP
3-6 months, 50%
6 month to 1 year, 40%
1 year or older, 30%
I would think most would sell online at a higher trade price anyway...
Oh yeah, and is a tuner (FM only) out of the question?
JD
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I'd think that for a similar reason as lack of video circuitry Bryston would not include a tuner. My bedroom rec'r sits on the other side of the wall to the main system and zone 2 output of the rec'r goes into the Bryston so it is not a big deal to me and I'm waiting to see if HD radio becomes more commonplace. My bedroom rec'r is 7 yrs. old so I really can't complain. I don't personally listen to FM all that much. I've suggested a USB input for portable players or hard drives but it probably can also be used for internet radio
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This doesn't sound to good regarding an upgrade. I was hoping to hear "we will work it out". I respect James's "worst case scenario", but if the Bryston technicians say; we can do this upgrade but we have to rip out the digital section and start over just to get 1 or 2 HDMI inputs, it's going to cost too much in labour so you might as well start trying to sell an SP3 trade-in and keep your existing customers happy. That's the audio business. I have been very happy with my SP2 just the way it is, but I don't want it to be obsolete, just yet. I enjoy it for maybe 70% music,(analog-bypass), 30% films/concerts,(digital). I really don't know yet if not having an HDMI input is going to make a difference. Is that the only way to get an: DTS, Dolby Digital HD signal into my system.
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This doesn't sound to good regarding an upgrade. I was hoping to hear "we will work it out". I respect James's "worst case scenario", but if the Bryston technicians say; we can do this upgrade but we have to rip out the digital section and start over just to get 1 or 2 HDMI inputs, it's going to cost too much in labour so you might as well start trying to sell an SP3 trade-in and keep your existing customers happy. That's the audio business. I have been very happy with my SP2 just the way it is, but I don't want it to be obsolete, just yet. I enjoy it for maybe 70% music,(analog-bypass), 30% films/concerts,(digital). I really don't know yet if not having an HDMI input is going to make a difference. Is that the only way to get an: DTS, Dolby Digital HD signal into my system.
Hi MacAngus,
Yes as far as I know the tech's tell me HDMI is the only way - due to bandwidth - that you can get the new HD formats.
james
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By structure I mean how do we price the trade-in value and how do we keep everyone (dealer , Bryston, customer) happy?
I guess that depends on how guilty you feel. :D How many people either bought an SP2 or held off selling an SP1.7 at a good price because you told them it would be ugradeable? How much money did they lose because they believed you?
If you want to keep customers happy then I think the minimum you need to do is eliminate the financial risk of waiting for the final announcement. What that means is that you need to establish what a reasonable price is for a second-hand SP2 or SP1.7 now, and guarantee that it will still be worth at least that much (as accepted by Bryston in part-exchange for an SP3) after the SP3 comes out.
If you feel more guilty than that :) then you should fix the trade-in value at what the second hand price would have been at the time when you first started telling people that the processors would be upgradeable.
I would also strongly urge you to consider dealing with the customers directly on the upgrade deal (in exactly the same way as you already allow SP1.7s to be sent directly to Canada for upgrade rather than requiring customers to go through their national distributor). For a British customer, for example, the opportunity to acquire an SP3 at US dollar prices would be very valuable; normally we pay double what the americans do. (Literally double!)
Btw, when it comes to possible upgrades, if there's no other option then I hope you'll consider a 2-box solution: a single new HDMI (or proprietary) digital connector on the SP1.7 or SP2 and an external box which has the job of separating HDMI audio and video, passing the audio to the processor, passing through the video to an HDMI output, and possibly also switching between multiple HDMI inputs. This would at least eliminate some of the concerns about a lack of space inside the chassis and on the backplane. (Obviously this is a last resort).
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It would be nice if there was just an HDMI pass thru and for those who wanted to run the output to either an external Bryston unit or an external HDMI distribution device that would be great. We in the states have to suffer too with the low value of the US dollar so we have issues as well.
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I think the direct idea is a good one.
james
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Perhaps the second box in the two-box approach that nicolas described could be a new SPV-2 ?
Perhaps the SP-1.7/2 to 3.0 upgrade could include only one HDMI input as nicolas also suggested
and the user could either use the SPV-2 or another 3rd-party switching box. I assume that there
will be boxes of this type available. The advantage of using an SPV-2 over a 3rd party box
would be that the SP-3 could control the input on the SPV-2 using the serial port ? An SPV-2 could
also be paired with a non-upgraded SP-3 with the advantage being onscreen displays.
I assume that an HDMI-based SPV-2 would only be able to have HDMI outputs due to encryption
and the HDMI rules and therefore might be cheaper than the original SPV-1 ? It might be nice to have an
RS-232 pass-thru/repeater on an SPV-2 so that it could be chained to an SPV-1 allowing video switching of
older formats.
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When I decided to go with a Bryston I considered a used SP1.7 but thought I might as well wait and get the new SP2 and have it upgraded when HDMI format was finalized. I still hope it's possible. It does everything I need and more except for this one HD drawback. I have a few ideas I'd like to throw out there.
1. Upgrade SP2 using the 2 optical inputs space at back with 2 HDMI inputs that are each source assignable with say 2 different sources for each for a total of 4 inputs along with a 2 input HDMI hub, (similar to USB hub). If the (TI Aureus) DSP engine can handle more inputs great if not a scaled down version with 1 HDMI input and say 2 sources assignable inputs with hub. (HD-TV & HD-DVD). The new input(s) fed to the new HD chip board inside, routed to the DSP engine. An approximate cost worked out to do the upgrade.
2. Same as above for SP1/SP1.7 owners but, with new SP2 upgrade chip etc. along with HDMI upgrade. Approximate cost worked out.
3. Trade-in program to all SP owners who want new SP3. A fixed allowance for trade in on each model, SP1/1.7 & 2.
I would much rather have the option of upgrading something than just throwing it away with a trade-in, what would Bryston do with all these used processors, recycle as much as possible I'm sure but there is still allot of waste of energy even in recycling. We can't keep throwing away everything it's already starting to catch up to us environmentally. Besides when they announce the new "ULTRA" HDMI connector we will have to start all over again.
DM
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I think the direct idea is a good one.
You might even consider doing the same thing in the US and Canada by bypassing the dealer network and handling upgrade/trade-in deals yourselves. The trade-in will be better value for customers if they're not having to pay the dealer mark-up on their new SP3.
The dealers would derive a large indirect benefit from this in that they could point to your trade-in policy as evidence of Bryston's commitment to its customers, which would boost sales of the SP3.
CUSTOMER: "So will this SP3 be upgradeable?"
DEALER: "Too early to tell, but even if it isn't you're protected: just look at the amazing trade-in deal Bryston is giving its SP1.7 customers!"
CUSTOMER: "Wow, you're right! Okay, I'll buy one!"
From Bryston's perspective too, this is not a pure loss-making exercise, it's a sales tool.
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I think an HDMI pass through or a 2-box solution (SPV-2) sounds good.
Bryson made a big mistake by promising the ability to upgrade. I wonder how many people purchased these units because of it. It’s now a no win situation for them. They either loose money to make customers happy or loose customers and make money on the new units. I think we just need to accept that technology changes and move on. Bryston makes great products and technology changes. I feel they have good intentions and value all of us who purchased one of these units. Hopefully they are able to work out a solution. One thing I think we can be sure of…the new sp3 will not come with a promise of an upgrade. :green:
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By structure I mean how do we price the trade-in value and how do we keep everyone (dealer , Bryston, customer) happy?
I guess that depends on how guilty you feel. :D How many people either bought an SP2 or held off selling an SP1.7 at a good price because you told them it would be ugradeable? How much money did they lose because they believed you?
Here's a quote from an SP-2 (an upgraded SP1.7) ad that's on Audiogon for sale right now:[/b]"Easy Future Upgradability. We place a great premium on upgradability...after all, when you invest in a piece of equipment, it should last you a long long time. Bryston designed the SP-2 to be upgradable. Future software changes are quick and easy to implement. On the hardware side, their pin-to-pin compatible digital board topology facilitates upgrades to future formats or digital processing technologies. The SP-2s existing DAC chips can run at sample rates up to 192 kHz facilitating upgrades to accommodate future formats. It is worth noting that many manufacturers promise that their units will be upgradable for future technology. Bryston actually does it..." These things have a habit of snowballing. Dealers and other sellers pass the information on and before you know it there is a class action lawsuit which costs money and does nothing for the company reputation. Pioneer had to make a big settlement on lots of DVD players. I elected a free firmware upgrade on my old DV47A before selling it. Samsung is getting sued right now for one of their Blu-Ray players. It's always better to err on the side of caution when starting out. The PMDT from Proceed made similar claims (I owned one many moons ago) about being future proof and that really cost the company big time. The lesson to be learned is clearly indicate what can be upgraded and include things that permit the user to hook-up lots of stuff that may come out (e.g. USB input, HDMI output) so the piece has lots of utility.
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Well I guess based on the above our only option is to come up with an upgrade path.
james
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I think the number one problem with the SP2 design with a promise to be upgradeable was the size of the "box". There should have been reasonable space available to accommodate future updates. I am sure that won't happen with the SP3. I don't see why Bryston could not offer a 5 year guaranteed upgrade plan on the new SP3, if properly designed.
I'd also like to provide a quote from James Tanner regarding their SP2 Processor Philosophy that is on their web site:
"Talk of the new DVD-HD and BluRay may change this issue but it appears the connector required will be the HDMI. If and when this occurs we will provide an update to our Processor."
I just want to make it clear that I think Bryston is a GREAT, "CANADIAN" company. What other company invites you to vent like this, and I know the VP is actually listening!
DM
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Hi,
Yes I guess it comes down to how you define 'upgrade'.
I am thinking that if possible it would be good if we had a few options available. If we can add a HDMI connector and new digital HD board to the SP1.7 and SP2 that would be option 1.
Option 2 would be a separate box that communicates with the current SP-2 or SP1.7 with HDMI and HD audio capability
Option 3 would be a trade in program for the SP3.
james
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Yes - I agree - it is great to have a company that listens and makes an effort to reach out to its customers. There are too many high end cos. that have not done this and some of them are now history. It makes it an easy sell for future products - that's why I bought the CD player. It also makes great advertising when someone comes over to hear the system and can also find out about the quality of the company. I had a 4BST many moons ago and got away from Bryston as they were slow to get into home theater (and also had bought a couple of old power pacs used which I sold for a drop more than I paid for them and now I wish I had them back for the bedroom system). Even for my bedroom system which doesn't see tons of use I may at some point end up with a smaller Bryston amp (new or used) to drive the left and right channels when I get a new rec'r (have an old Adcom 555 for now) due to the way it sounds as well as the way they make things right with their customers.
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Hi, James
I think giving your customers the choice of the 3 options you mentioned would be best.
As far as choice #2 a separate box to communicate the new HD information to the SP sounds good you would not have to send in the unit & have to deal with a shipping to & from issue, but I think you still need a "new" port on the Processor to accommodate the high bandwith of the HD signal.
DM
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Hi, James
I think giving your customers the choice of the 3 options you mentioned would be best.
As far as choice #2 a separate box to communicate the new HD information to the SP sounds good you would not have to send in the unit & have to deal with a shipping to & from issue, but I think you still need a "new" port on the Processor to accommodate the high bandwith of the HD signal.
DM
I'm certainly not a techie - so take this with a grain of salt but I would imagine it may be possible to have the RS232 communicate to the outboard box in a similar fashion the processor communicated with the Bryston video switcher. I'd probably opt for sending it back to them but it is not as big a deal for me as I have both a bedroom and basement system in addition to the main system and the bedroom system sits on the other side of the wall to the main system and zone 2 output of the bedroom rec'r goes into the SP1.7 I could just as easily connect it to the 14BSST and control the rec'r from the main room via the pyramid repeaters I have. I'll be happy to have something that has an upgrade path. It certainly takes a good deal of the anxiety out. I'm beginning to look at projectors for the main system now with HDMI (mine is more than 6 yrs. old and does not have HDMI) and I'll like to upgrade the bedroom rec'r to in anticipation of the new formats. My current bedroom rec'r is 7 yrs. old. If I get a Blu-Ray player at some point in the main system it's nice to know with a distribution device I'll be able to watch it in both the main and bedroom system. Knowing there will be some path in the main system makes it easier to start the process of acquiring some of the other stuff (otherwise I'd have to think about sell the Bryston processor and getting something else and I hate selling anything but more basic stuff as it is easier). I'm thinking of the Pioneer 1018 rec'r (which should be out in a couple of mos.) which will have a USB input and Windows Media Audio. So I can take zone 2 out of that an put my Zune player into the rec'r and play my lossless music on the main system or I probably can take the digital output of the rec'r and put it into my Micromega DAC I have in the bedroom and put the output of the DAC into the main system.
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James,
Thank you for keeping us in the loop about the SP3. As far as a direction for an upgrade path, you may want to consult with Lexicon. I have owned Lexicon in the past and upgraded from the DC-1->MC1->MC12 all at very reasonable prices.
Just my two cents.
RJ
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Hi,
Yes I guess it comes down to how you define 'upgrade'.
I am thinking that if possible it would be good if we had a few options available. If we can add a HDMI connector and new digital HD board to the SP1.7 and SP2 that would be option 1.
Option 2 would be a separate box that communicates with the current SP-2 or SP1.7 with HDMI and HD audio capability
Option 3 would be a trade in program for the SP3.
james
james,
any of these options available with usb and/or phono mc/mm ?
alex.
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
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Hi James,
With the SP3 having an external power supply as well as a separate audio section would it be safe to say that it will have the same performance as the BP26. Right now i own a BP26 and am considering changing to the SP3 if i don't lose any of the great 2 channel listening i currently enjoy. I know it's still very early in the designing of the SP3 but, is it basically going to be the BP26 with an external video section?
-Mark
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I was never completely sold on the idea of an outboard power supply...seems to be that if something is properly designed, the difference will be too minor to worry about. I just hope the "pure" analog by-pass is carried over. USB input is a big "yes", too!
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i do own both- the bp26 and the sp2. as far as i can say something about the stereo sound is that the 26 has a touch more resolution
and punch.
so i assume it has something to do with the (outboard) power supply.
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Hi James,
With the SP3 having an external power supply as well as a separate audio section would it be safe to say that it will have the same performance as the BP26. Right now i own a BP26 and am considering changing to the SP3 if i don't lose any of the great 2 channel listening i currently enjoy. I know it's still very early in the designing of the SP3 but, is it basically going to be the BP26 with an external video section?
-Mark
Hi Mark,
We are probably going to go with an internal power supply on the SP3 so I will not be able to give you the noise figures till we get one assembled. The analog sections in the SP3 will of course be the same as our BP26 preamp.
Listening to the SP3 vs the BP26 will certainly be one of our tests.
james
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
james,
are noise issues the reasons for maybe not implementing usb ?
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
james,
are noise issues the reasons for maybe not implementing usb ?
Hi Alex,
No noise issues - we have a USB connection on the new Bryston External DAC (BDA-1) and it performs very well. I will past on your suggestion to engineering.
james
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius
hi, marius!
I agree with you in following points:
1) the need of 2 balanced inputs
2) the ability to power the bp 1.5
greetings,
alex.
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius
James has already addressed the problem with space for balanced inputs. I have the pro version of the SP1.7 that has a balanced digital input vs. two toslink and have already asked the question. HDMI splitters are not all that expensive. Oppo makes a 3 in 1 out HDMI switcher for $99. I'll be really happy with one (HDMI) in and one out and be able to route Dolby True HD through the processor. Without video capabilities, other than to get audio from something like Blu-Ray, unless I'm missing something, I don't see the what the great advantage is. If you have HDMI from cable, satellite or over-the-air, the sound you'll be getting won't be hi-rez - just plain Dolby Digital. If you have multiple hi-rez disc players then it might be useful but not that big a deal to get a switcher. If Bryston is able to fit 3 HDMI jacks (two in and one out) in the space of the optical jacks that would probably be fine for just about anyone. Optical to coax converters, if needed, are not all that expensive. I have one. Before I got HD built into the bedroom TV on the other side of the wall to the main system I took the 'S' video out of the over-the-air HD tuner (in the main system) and converted toslink to coax (so not to have many bends) before going thru the wall to the bedroom so I could watch digital TV. Unlike PCM, Dolby Digital is delivered in packets much like internet protocol and it is pretty much there or not there so you don't have all the same concerns about running Dolby Digital thru a digital cable as you do PCM.
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Hi,
Not sure on the USB but definitely not Phono.
james
Hi James,
I am sure that the space might be a challenge, but here are the features I'd love to have upgrading the Sp1.7 to a SP3 using "the same box modified":
1. Add two balanced inputs for stereo replacing the existing 2 optical inputs (would allow users to use the BCD-1 balanced outputs).
3. Replace 2 (maybe 3) digital coaxial entries with HDMI inputs (obviously the new digital board should process all new true HD formats).
3. Extremely nice would be ability to power the phono BP1.5. This would eliminate the need to buy the MPS-2 power supply.
Thanks,
Marius
James has already addressed the problem with space for balanced inputs. I have the pro version of the SP1.7 that has a balanced digital input vs. two toslink and have already asked the question. HDMI splitters are not all that expensive. Oppo makes a 3 in 1 out HDMI switcher for $99. I'll be really happy with one (HDMI) in and one out and be able to route Dolby True HD through the processor. Without video capabilities, other than to get audio from something like Blu-Ray, unless I'm missing something, I don't see the what the great advantage is. If you have HDMI from cable, satellite or over-the-air, the sound you'll be getting won't be hi-rez - just plain Dolby Digital. If you have multiple hi-rez disc players then it might be useful but not that big a deal to get a switcher. If Bryston is able to fit 3 HDMI jacks (two in and one out) in the space of the optical jacks that would probably be fine for just about anyone. Optical to coax converters, if needed, are not all that expensive. I have one. Before I got HD built into the bedroom TV on the other side of the wall to the main system I took the 'S' video out of the over-the-air HD tuner (in the main system) and converted toslink to coax (so not to have many bends) before going thru the wall to the bedroom so I could watch digital TV. Unlike PCM, Dolby Digital is delivered in packets much like internet protocol and it is pretty much there or not there so you don't have all the same concerns about running Dolby Digital thru a digital cable as you do PCM.
Sorry, I was not interested in a digital balanced input (I think this is already available in the pro model), but analgue balanced inputs and use the SP3.0 as preamp. This would allow users to take advantage of the balanced outputs of the new Bryston BCD-1 CD player.
In regard with the HDMI inputs, as you guessed I was not talking about cable, satellite or over-the-air. These are not true HD transmissions even from an image perspective (native they should be 1080p but currently the max available is native 720p/1080i). As the proposal for the first free HD network has been rejected last week by CRTC, it will be a while until anything in this direction will be native HD.
The HDMI inputs I was reffering to are making sense only in conjunction with the ability to decode the new hi rez formats (Dolby® TrueHD, and DTS-HD™) that can not be passed via digital coaxial or optical. These new hi-rez formats are already availble today with some blue ray players, but soon as the the hi-rez format is over and blue ray is the winner they will become as standard as the regular DTS and Dolby are today with the DVD format. A perfect example is already on the market: the new Denon blue-ray transport DVD-2500BTCI, that has only 1 output (onviously HDMI) and supports with some restrictions a native bit stream output for Dolby® Digital+, Dolby® TrueHD, and DTS-HD™ master audio.
In order to use this transport with the new hi rez formats the new SP3 should have at least 1 HDMI input and 1 HDMI outout (for passing through the image without any scaling). Otherwise, in case the new SP3 would not able to process the new hi rez formats, there is no point for an HDMI input as the current digital coax would be used pefectly for audio and the source can be linked directly via HDMI with the TV for a true 1080p image.
The current models (SP2 and even SP1.7) are perfect as long as the new hi-rez formats are not in the cards. But as regular Dolby and DTS are standard today for DVD format and all processors/receivers are handling them, it is a matter of time only until the new Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD™ associated with the blue-ray will become the new standard...
The second HDMI input could be for a SACD player... Sure in both case you could use the multichannel analogue input in SP, but the processing is done in that case by the source and not by the processor...
The third request - ability to power BP1.5 - is trying to minimize the cost of adding phono by eliminating the need to buy the external MPS-2. Otherwise the cost of having a complete Bryson by adding BP1.5 (and the MPS-2) system is much higher in comparison with adding the external phono equalizer from Rotel RQ-970 for just 200$. Eliminating the need to add MPS-2 might count from this perspective...
However, the first request (balanced analogue inputs) and the third one (ability to power PB1.5) are related with enhancing the pream function already excellent both in SP2 and SP1.7.
The core requirement though for the new processor would be related to the ability to decode the new hi-rez formats (passed via HDMI link) that will become soon standard: Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD™... Otherwise the new SP3 with or without an HDMI link will become obsolete (from a processor capabilities perspective) even before it will hit the market...
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On the subject of upgradeability: when thinking about the design of the SP3 you Bryston guys might like to look at the original design of the Lexicon MC-12 processor. It had a rather nice modular design with internal expansion slots into which new DSP "cards" could be plugged when produced, a little like adding PCI cards to a PC. It was obviously designed right from the start for maximum upgradeability, with more DACs than you could possibly want, and interchangeable digital circuitry; and there was not just one slot but several, so that the original DSP could be supplemented by others, not just replaced by them (which might make for easier software design, I'm not sure).
You might also like to look at the way Tag McLaren managed to reuse a surprisingly large amount of the original AV32R in the dual-SHARC version.
As far as SP3 features are concerned, beyond a sufficiency of inputs and outputs and support for all next-gen audio formats I'd also like to see the following (in descending order of importance):
- Asynchronous upsampling of the input signal to eliminate jitter (as seen in the BP26-DA); or, if possible, actual buffering and reclocking.
- Parametric EQ (a part of the standard Aureus code library) or, preferably, some more sophisticated form of Room Correction (see what the guys at Audyssey Labs have come up with - they write stuff for Aureus chips). This should obviously be buried in an "Expert" menu somewhere in order to a) avoid newbies who don't understand it making a mess of things, and b) avoid upsetting pretentious audio "purists" who are too dumb to realise that they don't actually have to turn the system on if they don't want to.
- Dolby Headphone processing (something that is part of the standard code library for the Aureus processor). There should be an option to feed Dolby Headphone output out via RCA.
- Lip-synch delay setting for use with video processors.
- Some alternative multi-speaker modes for stereo inputs (something like Meridian's TriField or Lexicon's system, the name of which temporarily escapes me).
- Genuine 7.1 analogue bypass (i.e. genuine in the way that stereo bypass is for the SP1.7 but 5.1 bypass isn't).
- A setup routine with a microphone which would exactly determine speaker loudness and delay settings in an automated fashion.
- An optional headphone stage. (As also seen in the BP26-DA, I believe).
- An optional phono stage.
- The ability to produce a stereo downmix and/or headphone output at the same time as 7.1 speaker output, e.g. via the Tape output.
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Hi All - Update:
We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features.
April 10th 2008
2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs
3-4 rack-spaces
Top rack-space reserved for video
7.1 balanced out
7.1 single ended out
Larger display
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio
Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio
Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
6-8 Analog inputs
7.1 Analog bypass
Stereo Analog bypass
1 – Zone
Digital out?
VCR and Tape loop
Two - RS232
1- Ethernet
1- Dolby headphone
james
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We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features
USB ?
brucek
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We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features
USB ?
brucek
Not discussed-will talk about in next meeting.
james
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Hi All - Update:
We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features.
April 10th 2008
2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs
3-4 rack-spaces
Top rack-space reserved for video
7.1 balanced out
7.1 single ended out
Larger display
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio
Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio
Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
6-8 Analog inputs
7.1 Analog bypass
Stereo Analog bypass
1 – Zone
Digital out?
VCR and Tape loop
Two - RS232
1- Ethernet
1- Dolby headphone
james
Hi James,
This looks great, just two questions:
The balanced stereo inputs, headphone combined with the existing Stereo Analog bypass will make a lot of people happy including myself. As the phono option doesn't look to be in the cards, did you consider SP3 to be able able to power the BP1.5 (this would allow users to avoid buying the external MPS-2 power supply)?
Probably it was just missed out, but I could not see in the list the 1 HDMI output - required in order to pass the image signal "as is" to TV/external video processor (with no scaling). If the source is a transport only (ie Denon blue ray DVD-2500BTCI) with only 1 output (HDMI) the new SP3 processor should be able to accept the signal (1 HDMI input audio/video) process the sound and pass the the image signal "as is" via 1 output (HDMI) to TV/external video processor with no modifications.
Leaving aside exactly how many HDMI inputs/outputs - the second question: will the new SP3 be able to decode and process the new hi rez formats: Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD? I read your interview at http://www.monoandstereo.com/2008/01/interview-with-james-tanner-of-bryston.html and you have mentioned the Bryston dream audio product: "Surround processor that handles all the new audio formats with State of the Art sound". Is the SP3 be the product you were referring to? I am asking this as there are a lot of processors/receivers on the market with HDMI inputs/outpust, however all they decode is the DVD standard audio formats (regular Dolby and DTS) for which coaxial digital would be enough...
Thanks,
Marius
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Additions April 11/08
4- Digital COAX in
3- Optical in
1- AES-EBU in?
1-USB in
Hi All - Update:
We are starting to assemble the SP3 and so far have decided on the following features.
April 10th 2008
2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs
3-4 rack-spaces
Top rack-space reserved for video
7.1 balanced out
7.1 single ended out
Larger display
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio
Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio
Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
6-8 Analog inputs
7.1 Analog bypass
Stereo Analog bypass
1 – Zone
Digital out?
VCR and Tape loop
Two - RS232
1- Ethernet
1- Dolby headphone
james
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hi, james!
great features so far! digital aes ebu is something most costumers would agree for (two would be better...).
usb in- at the front or back?
still no phono? not at all? that makes my eyes water :(.
but all in all i am convinced that the new sp3 will be fantastic processor.
alex.
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James,
SP3 looks great !
When do you think... it might be ready for us (to upgrade/buy) ???
I'm gonna wait for you... :thumb:
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By the way - I am hearing rumors that people are unhappy with HDMI and are looking at alternative connectors.
james
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...what connector should this be???
and why they are unhappy with hdmi?
-
Input from a source:
I'm not all that sold on HDMI . I was looking on the AVS forum and saw an article that indicating something about the fact that the HDMI format might be changing. You might want to take a look at the article.
Also go to www.cepro.com .There are several articles on it as well as some talk on another type port or something else to compete with HDMI that is royalty free.
james
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Not that I've used HDMI much (my Oppo 980 in the bedroom is connected to the TV in there via it) and I've heard of problems, but I really don't think realistically there will be a viable alternative. Not that I'd think it is a bad idea, it's wishful thinking. It has been bought into by the movie studios (for copy protection) and is mainstream in equipment from rec'rs to pre/pros to Blu-Ray players to HD TV tuners to TVs, etc. We even have DTS built in DVD players and rec'rs even though that is a niche market as not tons of software is released having it included. The movie studios alone have enough problems agreeing on anything. With decreasing sales of software, more and more broadband internet services, etc., risking anything in the way of copy protection is not something that's going to happen any time soon.
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1- Dolby headphone
Ooh, ace!
:drool:
Is there any chance we might eventually get Dolby Headphone on the SP2 (or SP1.7 with DSP upgrade)? I don't mean "can we have a headphone socket added?" I mean a Dolby Headphone signal produced through a pair of the existing RCA outputs.
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1- Dolby headphone
Ooh, ace!
:drool:
Is there any chance we might eventually get Dolby Headphone on the SP2 (or SP1.7 with DSP upgrade)? I don't mean "can we have a headphone socket added?" I mean a Dolby Headphone signal produced through a pair of the existing RCA outputs.
Hi,
The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.
james
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The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing, by any means; it obviously depends very strongly on the terms of the trade-in. Any word on that yet?
-
The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing, by any means; it obviously depends very strongly on the terms of the trade-in. Any word on that yet?
No word yet as we have no idea what the costs of the new SP3 will be.
james
-
1- Dolby headphone
Ooh, ace!
:drool:
Is there any chance we might eventually get Dolby Headphone on the SP2 (or SP1.7 with DSP upgrade)? I don't mean "can we have a headphone socket added?" I mean a Dolby Headphone signal produced through a pair of the existing RCA outputs.
Hi,
The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.
james
James
Offering a trade in would possibly help me move from my SP2 to a SP3. Though I have to say you are digging a big hole for Bryston. When I first read you were considering this option I thought it was April 1st. We'd all want top dollar for our beloved SP's and what is Bryston going to do with them all? Like I said, I might benefit from a scheme but if my surname was Bryston this is not an option I would offer.
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We'd all want top dollar for our beloved SP's and what is Bryston going to do with them all?
I doubt the upgrade option is possible. How could you fit a 3 or 4 rack height set of electronics into a 2 height cage?
I've always see the trade in option as the only choice. It certainly relieves Bryston of the messy task of designing a creative upgrade path that they would likely only break even on.
What do we care where they dispose of the trade in junk. There would be junk with an upgrade option as well.
Certainly, the lower the exchange price that's offered, the less there is a problem.
That price has to be weighed against loyal customer loss. If they offer you 50%, you're a customer forever, but if they offer 10%, you're gone..... Tricky business.
brucek
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What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
james
-
Certainly, the lower the exchange price that's offered, the less there is a problem.
That price has to be weighed against loyal customer loss. If they offer you 50%, you're a customer forever, but if they offer 10%, you're gone..... Tricky business.
Just a thought, though, what is the breadth of what we are talking about here? I mean, how many of the SP1/1.7 users took adantage of the existing upgrade programs of SP1 to SP1.7 and SP1.7 to SP2? How many will actually upgrade to the SP3, especially since it will likely enatail a more expensive upgrade than either of the other two before? Sure, some will, but will it be extensive?
Well, I see the option of Bryston looking at taking back SP1/SP1.7s and SP2s as a virtual Pandora’s Box.
If for no other reason than what value do you assign to each of the different units? Is there a ‘trade-in’ difference offered on a SP2 vs an SP1.7 upgraded to SP2? Better still, who’s eligible for the upgrade? Only customers who bought their units from authorized dealers (and therefore paid full street price new)? Does one offer the same trade-in credit to someone who paid half price for a used unit while another customer paid full price? Does a person who bought from a non-authorized dealer get excluded? Sure, they may not be eligible for warranty, but anyone should be able to have access to an upgrade where it’s being sold for cash. I guess what I’m saying is that a trade-in program has a lot of variables. It would be too many for me, (if I were in your shoes James!)
Let's go back to the concept of the initial 'upgrade' mechanism. I suspect the cost to upgrade from model to model was always intended to be at worst a break-even recovery on the part of Bryston. At best, a marginal profit on the upgrade program. After all, it is a business.
So, let’s assume that the task of squeezing SP1/1.7/2s into “SP3s” by adding extra chassis, extra parts, throwing away old parts, etc is just not worth the frustration. As well, even if it could be done, the scope of changes may approach the input costs of a new unit. Then, effectively the cost of the upgrade becomes the actual production cost of the new SP3. Bryston can either offer the ‘upgrade’ at cost, at worst, and maybe even marginally below costs for the value it sees in keeping the current users happy and loyal.
However, I would keep it at that. So, existing owners would get to keep their SP1/1.7/2 and upgrade at the 'Bryston cost'. Then, if the users want to sell their old units, they can. The pricing is at the mercy of the market and the price gotten would be based on condition of the unit, how many previous owners, etc. In other words, the customer has the ability to set their ‘net upgrade’ price.
As far as price crashes on the basis of obsolescence when a new SP3 hits the shelves? I don’t see that likely happening. If a new SP3 unit has a MSRP of, say $8,000, a used Bryston SP1/1.7/2 will likely still catch a favorable resale price (especially when viewed in conjunction with the fact that you’d be getting an SP3 ‘upgrade’ at cost or better). Not every one wants to be on the bleeding edge. It will take a long time for SP1/1.7/2 technology to be ‘obsolete’.
Sure, this may have holes as well. But I think you have to look at all sides. I think Bryston agreeing to give a trade in credit on existing units raises more questions.
This is just another angle. Just trying to look at something that's win/win for both sides. For the record, I have a SP1.7. Never even considered the SP2 upgrade and would only even consider the SP3 upgrade mainly on the basis of an improvement to the 2-channel analogue side.
Keith
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What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
I think that is actually a very good idea. No sense trying to shoehorn an upgrade into an existing box if it doesn't make sense, "promise" or not. Nobody could have predicted exactly how technology would have shifted in just a few short years, and that Bryston are trying as hard as they are speaks volumes as to their support for their customers. If someone is that worried about future resale value, sell it now and stop worrying...invest the cash and you'll be in good shape when the SP3 comes out. Or have it converted into a stereo preamp and start a world-class second system in another room (or get someone else started into real hi-fi).
-
James:
You indicated [digital out?] in your feature list. Would this allow stereo A/D conversion and ouput in S/PDIF format to a computer or DAC? Just wondering because of all that vinyl out there.
Thanks,
Phil
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James:
You indicated [digital out?] in your feature list. Would this allow stereo A/D conversion and ouput in S/PDIF format to a computer or DAC? Just wondering because of all that vinyl out there.
Thanks,
Phil
If we offer it I assume it would be a digtal stereo mix to SPDIF - not sure if it could A to D - will ask engineering.
james
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What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
Sounds good. Maybe you could preserve the 5.1 bypass and allow them to be 5.1-channel analogue pre-amps as well?
-
What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
Sounds good. Maybe you could preserve the 5.1 bypass and allow them to be 5.1-channel analogue pre-amps as well?
Good idea!
james
-
James
I'm not sure if this was already asked, but....
1. I thought that in the past (SP1/1.7/2), video was intentionally left out for potential of degrading sound quality. Why would Bryston now consider putting video in the SP3? Is it due to the fact that the 4-rack space will prevent any degradation?
2. I know there's talk of not using the MPS-2 power supply with the SP3. As well, I'm not sure if the planned analogue side power supply will be more robust than what's in the SP1.7. Will there be any plan to build the analogue power supply to a spec as close to the MPS-2 as possible and squeeze it inside the SP3, especially since this will be a much higher unit than the SP1.7/2? The reason I ask is that a move to boost analogue side performance substantially would sway me in considering an upgrade.
Keith
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James
I'm not sure if this was already asked, but....
1. I thought that in the past (SP1/1.7/2), video was intentionally left out for potential of degrading sound quality. Why would Bryston now consider putting video in the SP3? Is it due to the fact that the 4-rack space will prevent any degradation?
2. I know there's talk of not using the MPS-2 power supply with the SP3. As well, I'm not sure if the planned analogue side power supply will be more robust than what's in the SP1.7. Will there be any plan to build the analogue power supply to a spec as close to the MPS-2 as possible and squeeze it inside the SP3, especially since this will be a much higher unit than the SP1.7/2? The reason I ask is that a move to boost analogue side performance substantially would sway me in considering an upgrade.
Keith
Hi Keith,
1. Yes the video will be in a separate area with shielding. It is the mixing of the grounds and power supplies that is the issue with all in one processors. So it will be essentially an outboard unit that is housed in the larger chassis. We still may go with video completely separate depending on our tests - or maybe the option of internal or external?
2. The power supply for the Digital sections and the Analog sections require different current and voltage settings. So as we do in all our digital/analog gear we design separate power supplies for the Digital and Analog sections to optimize each ones performance. Thats why we can not use the MPS-2 with our CD Player (CD Player has separate analog and digital power supply and ground plan) because a common power supply will not provide the best performance. So rest assured the analog power supply will be excellent in the SP3.
james
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Hi James,
I'm new here but another owner of the prevously mentioned RDC-7.1 (Not got alot love for Onkyo any more). The list looks good for a replacement of the RDC-7.1 but there are a few things I would like that arent mentioned, I dont know if they are possible:
ILink (Only way to get 5.1 hires PCM out of Winamp at the moment and still best SACD and DVD-A)
HDMI 1.3A Audio Clock Synching (This is like the preamp controlled clock used in ILink, Pioneer are referring to this as PQLS in their new gear but its an open standard)
No Video, it can only increase noise and cost.
Another thumbs up for an AES/EBU input too
10Hz individual speaker set bass management
Excellent fully balanced DA section (Probably dont have to say this :) )
AC3-RF Input
April 10th 2008
2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs
3-4 rack-spaces
Top rack-space reserved for video
7.1 balanced out
7.1 single ended out
Larger display
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio
Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio
Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
6-8 Analog inputs
7.1 Analog bypass
Stereo Analog bypass
1 – Zone
Digital out?
VCR and Tape loop
Two - RS232
1- Ethernet
1- Dolby headphone
-
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio
Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio
Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
James, what do you mean by "stripped audio"?
Oh, and any word on whether the SP3 will support aysnchronous upsampling (or some other form of reclocking)?
-
I think he means the unit will process all audio but pass throuh the video signal. This is the only way to deal with HDMI audio on an audio only prepro.
-
James
Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3? Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works. I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be. That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.
Thanks
Tony
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Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio
Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio
Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
James, what do you mean by "stripped audio"?
Oh, and any word on whether the SP3 will support aysnchronous upsampling (or some other form of reclocking)?
Not sure on the upsampling.
james
-
James
Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3? Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works. I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be. That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.
Thanks
Tony
Hi Tony,
Yes we are looking at a number of different displays with long life as one of the main criteria.
james
-
James
Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3? Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works. I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be. That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.
Thanks
Tony
Hi Tony,
Yes we are looking at a number of different displays with long life as one of the main criteria.
james
Perhaps either a RS232 port to connect to any video switcher with RS232 or an optional composite display output with the ability to turn off the display. I already have a 19 inch TV not far from the listening chair (about 7 ft.). I have a cheap video switcher with a number of things. hooked to it. I don't want to turn on the main system projector and waste bulb life so for things like DVD-A menus, my DVD Recorder (which I may used once or twice a yr. for stuff like dubbing a vacation video), I can view my front door via a 2.4G camera and I since I had it laying around I took a broken 8mm camcorder (the camera still works) and I have it zoomed in on the front of the SP 1.7 display since it is small and hard to read and have the camcorder connected to the small TV. I started out with a cheap $25 B&W TV but it was too hard to read and then a cheap 13 inch color TV but it was bulky and ugly (not to mention it was not widescreen - like the universal player is set for - which sometimes also skewed and made it hard to read as well. I had points on a VISA card and for about $30 I decided to get the 19 inch widescreen LCD.
I surprised a display would go after only 3 yrs. My Onkyo 6 disc changer is about 15 years old. For many years it was in the bedroom system and then for a short period disconnected and then for many years it is now in the basement system and it has been on all of the time except for the very short period (perhaps 6-7 mos.) it was disconnected and it still looks fine and is fairly easy to read from a distance comparted to the SP 1.7.
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Hello all,
This thread prompted me to register as a member to this site. It is awesome be able to converse with Mr. Tanner about the upcoming SP3. I am a happy Bryston customer, with a SP1.7, 9BST, and 14BST matched with B&W 803 mains and 804 for center and surrounds. I was starting to look around at pre amp processors from other companies, such as Denon, Arcam and Anthem because I wanted a high quality processor to use HDMI to decode the hi resolution formats on the Blu Ray and SACD/ DVD Audio discs. I am very excited to hear that Bryston is working on a new processor, and that there are plans for a trade-in plan. The trade in plan, coupled with Bryston quality will keep me from buying another brand. Keep up the great work and I’ll be patiently waiting for the SP3s release. I would like to add that some sort of room EQ correction would be on my list for a feature on the SP3. Thanks, Pete
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Hello all,
This thread prompted me to register as a member to this site. It is awesome be able to converse with Mr. Tanner about the upcoming SP3. I am a happy Bryston customer, with a SP1.7, 9BST, and 14BST matched with B&W 803 mains and 804 for center and surrounds. I was starting to look around at pre amp processors from other companies, such as Denon, Arcam and Anthem because I wanted a high quality processor to use HDMI to decode the hi resolution formats on the Blu Ray and SACD/ DVD Audio discs. I am very excited to hear that Bryston is working on a new processor, and that there are plans for a trade-in plan. The trade in plan, coupled with Bryston quality will keep me from buying another brand. Keep up the great work and I’ll be patiently waiting for the SP3s release. I would like to add that some sort of room EQ correction would be on my list for a feature on the SP3. Thanks, Pete
Marantz actually has one coming out this week (my dealer will be getting one) or next. It has HD Radio, Networking, balanced outs and lots of other bells and whistles and lists for $2,599. We'll see how it sounds on 2-channel music though. I'm skeptical but open minded enough to give it a listen.
-
Update:
Got the back panel layout done this week. Looks like the SP3 will have to be 3 rack spaces high to get everything on it we need.
Still waiting for the HD chips to arrive.
james
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Hi James,
Any thoughts on DSD and Flow Control support over HDMI?
-
Update:
Got the back panel layout done this week. Looks like the SP3 will have to be 3 rack spaces high to get everything on it we need.
Still waiting for the HD chips to arrive.
james
Hi James, so finally the same size than predecessors?
Fabien
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James
Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3? Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works. I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be. That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.
Thanks
Tony
Hi Tony,
Yes we are looking at a number of different displays with long life as one of the main criteria.
james
Hi James,
Have you considered other ways of displaying information?
How about putting a set of LED's in a "Dolby-box" formation - same as you see on a DVD case - to show which speakers are active. I think I saw some Harmon Kardon Receivers doing this once. I think that's alot more intuitive than reading numbers off the display.
Or what about adding an LED to the volume nob so you can easily see its position? Or even a fluorescent spot! Something to make it easier to see in low light. If I understand correctly your still required to have the display because of THX requirements. But the additions I suggest would certainly make it more intuitive to use.
-
James
Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3? Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works. I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be. That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.
Thanks
Tony
Hi Tony,
Yes we are looking at a number of different displays with long life as one of the main criteria.
james
Hi James,
Have you considered other ways of displaying information?
How about putting a set of LED's in a "Dolby-box" formation - same as you see on a DVD case - to show which speakers are active. I think I saw some Harmon Kardon Receivers doing this once. I think that's alot more intuitive than reading numbers off the display.
Or what about adding an LED to the volume nob so you can easily see its position? Or even a fluorescent spot! Something to make it easier to see in low light. If I understand correctly your still required to have the display because of THX requirements. But the additions I suggest would certainly make it more intuitive to use.
Hi,
I will past this along to engineering.
james
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James,
Will it be possible to connect the SP3.0 to a Music Server through HDMI that would feed directly HiRez FLAC type of file format?
A second HDMI output would be great. I have a setup where a LCD TV is used most of the TV watching and a projector for DVD, HD DVD, Blu-Ray, TV. I sure the other using a similar setup and a second HMDI out (it doesn't need to be alive at the same time) would be great.
-
A second HDMI output would be great. I have a setup where a LCD TV is used most of the TV watching and a projector for DVD, HD DVD, Blu-Ray, TV. I sure the other using a similar setup and a second HMDI out (it doesn't need to be alive at the same time) would be great.
+10
The same for me, i really need 2 HDMI out, one for my flat TV and one for my JVC HD100 !!!
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What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
james
James,
& / Or how about a digital switcher for those of us dedicated 2 channel guys who already have a Bryston pre / integrated but also have a DVD player, computer and a couple of satellite boxes?
Remote controlled
Ins: 1 USB front, 1 USB back, 1 XLRm, 3 optical, 3 coax
Outs: 1 optical, 1 coax, 1 XLR
USBs could be omitted if it would add too much to the price.
This is eerily close to my first ever post on this forum back in January 2005. The main differences is back then, I wanted more inputs and I thought that optical sounded better than coax from my soundcard (I no longer think there's a difference):
"my 2 bell express vu satellite receivers only have optical outs
my panasonic dvd recorder only has an optical out
my DVD player has both coax and optical outputs
I use the optical out of my soundcard because it sounds better (John Atkinson of Stereopile found the same thing in his review of the RME soundcard in Novemeber 2000 - think it has something to do with refractions and long cable lengths)
Aside from the extra satellite receiver this is not an unreasonable system in terms of digital input requirements. Surely I must not be the only one with this problem. Even if I had the SP1.7 I would still have a problem with having sufficient appropriate inputs.
So James, what I would really like to buy is not a Bryston CD player or even a stand alone DAC but rather a hi quality, remote controlled Bryston digital input / output box with minimum 4 optical, 4 coax and 2 XLR inputs and 2 optical, 2 coax and 2 XLR outputs. Users would be able to output to the DAC portion of their BP25/26 or B60 as well as a soundcard or TACT / Z systems type equalizer using whatever output they found sounded best.
Also it would be imperative that there be no clicks or pops whatsoever on input switching or when you change the channels off the satellite or the song changes off the hard drive as happens with an older but highly regarded processor I bought second hand to use soley to accomodate all of my digital inputs (not to mention the signal bleeding that occurs from one input to the other - I eventually wound up solving the pops and clicks by first routing the satellite and soundcard outputs through the inputs of a MD recorder before sending it on to the processor - not a very elegant solution).
I would be willing to pay $1200 if it had the Bryston name on it. Surely I can't be the only 2 channel guy who needs a hi quality consumer switcher for all his digital sources.
Make it and we will buy :)"
-
I would also love to find a way to better integrate a BP26 (or BP27?) with the SP3.
My main priority is 2ch listening, and while the SP2 has the pre-amp circuit from the BP25 (I believe), I would still prefer to have a seperate pre-amp for 2ch listening (Analog only, paired with the upcoming standalone DAC). A lot of pre-amps now have a 'processor' input, that when activated simply connects that input to the output bypassing everything including the volume control. One problem with this setup is if you use a universal disc player for movies and music, you need to swap cables in order to have it connected to the pre-amp for redbook CDs or 2ch SACD, and the processor for DVD-A, Movies, etc.
I gotta think there there is a better way to integrate a processor and analog pre-amp, as seperate components, especially when it's the same company building both units. If bryston could figure out a way to tightly integrate an analog pre-amp with a surround sound processor, while still allowing for seperate units, I would definitely sell all my gear in favor of an all-bryston system (with the exception of the DVD player, of course).
-
Update:
Got the back panel layout done this week. Looks like the SP3 will have to be 3 rack spaces high to get everything on it we need. . .
james
I'm not surprised. To me it was obvious Bryston wanted to make the SP 1 the same size as one of their top end 2 channel products. Unfortunately, it's a five channel processor, and should have been made larger to reflect connection needs. I like my SP 1.7 very much, but always felt the size choice was a poor decision. With the way things are going, I think this is a good idea. God only knows what additional connection needs are going to come next.
On the other hand, I'm hoping they're not going for an "everything but the kitchen sink" design. I like the simplicity and efficiency of the SP 1.7.
-
Update:
Got the back panel layout done this week. Looks like the SP3 will have to be 3 rack spaces high to get everything on it we need. . .
james
I'm not surprised. To me it was obvious Bryston wanted to make the SP 1 the same size as one of their top end 2 channel products. Unfortunately, it's a five channel processor, and should have been made larger to reflect connection needs. I like my SP 1.7 very much, but always felt the size choice was a poor decision. With the way things are going, I think this is a good idea. God only knows what additional connection needs are going to come next.
On the other hand, I'm hoping they're not going for an "everything but the kitchen sink" design. I like the simplicity and efficiency of the SP 1.7.
Hi antt,
Yes job one is to build a state of the art AUDIO Surround Processor like we did with the SP1 and SP2.
james
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Hi antt,
Yes job one is to build a state of the art AUDIO Surround Processor like we did with the SP1 and SP2.
james
So James,
Where are we from the release date now ?
6 month, a year... more ?
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Hi antt,
Yes job one is to build a state of the art AUDIO Surround Processor like we did with the SP1 and SP2.
james
So James,
Where are we from the release date now ?
6 month, a year... more ?
We are looking at volume controls and displays presently and hope to have the HD chips in house this month.
james
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Ok James,
But what about my question ?
When do you expect the SP3 "should/might" be ready... ?
I get a lot of demands in France concerning the dead line...
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Ok James,
But what about my question ?
When do you expect the SP3 "should/might" be ready... ?
I get a lot of demands in France concerning the dead line...
HI Moz,
Not sure as there is still lots to do. I should know more in a few weeks.
james
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James,
I know it's too early for a price quote, but what is the targeted range for this piece? Just looking for some kind of a ballpark figure.
Thanks!
-
James,
I know it's too early for a price quote, but what is the targeted range for this piece? Just looking for some kind of a ballpark figure.
Thanks!
Hi DMF - we think about $6000 US.
james
-
Wow! I had it in my head that this was going way above the current price range. This is excellent news.
Thanks,
Dave
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Wow! I had it in my head that this was going way above the current price range. This is excellent news.
Thanks,
Dave
Waouh !
Am i mistaking or are you really talking about the SP3 price here ?
6000$, that is great news !
If it sounds like it should... you'll have a winner James...
-
Wow! I had it in my head that this was going way above the current price range. This is excellent news.
Thanks,
Dave
Waouh !
Am i mistaking or are you really talking about the SP3 price here ?
6000$, that is great news !
If it sounds like it should... you'll have a winner James...
Well its strickly a guess as we are still in the design stages. It really comes down to how many options we make available. Example would be the number of balanced input stages and output stages for instance. Beause we use Discrete Class A circuits having a Balanced input or output adds a fair bit of cost.
james
-
Wow! I had it in my head that this was going way above the current price range. This is excellent news.
Thanks,
Dave
Waouh !
Am i mistaking or are you really talking about the SP3 price here ?
6000$, that is great news !
If it sounds like it should... you'll have a winner James...
Well its strickly a guess as we are still in the design stages. It really comes down to how many options we make available. Example would be the number of balanced input stages and output stages for instance. Beause we use Discrete Class A circuits having a Balanced input or output adds a fair bit of cost.
james
My understanding is that the video processor be outside in a separate box and be an option. Is this the right understanding?
-
The way we are looking at it now is that the height of the unit will be one rack space higher and the video board can be added later if wanted.
It would be a separate area that can be populated or not.
james
-
James,
I know it's too early for a price quote, but what is the targeted range for this piece? Just looking for some kind of a ballpark figure.
Thanks!
Hi DMF - we think about $6000 US.
james
wow!
if the sp3 SHOULD be at that price the trade-in option is very interesting for those who already own
an sp2. sun-audio calls roundabout 6800 euros for a unit.
alex.
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Well please don't hold me to this price as we are still a long way away from the final design.
james
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thats ok- i was just thinking... :D
al.
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The way we are looking at it now is that the height of the unit will be one rack space higher and the video board can be added later if wanted.
It would be a separate area that can be populated or not.
If video is going to be optional, what are the implications of that when dealing with HDMI input signals? Will an SP3 without the video circuitry fitted be capable of separating the audio and video components in an HDMI stream, for example? How are you going to handle that type of input?
Hi DMF - we think about $6000 US.
Any sort of ballpark number yet on the value of an SP2 or SP1.7 trade-in?
-
Hi nicolasb,
The design so far looks like we will have a base unit that will be Audio ONLY and the HDMI inputs will strip off the Audio and pass through the Video. I really want to maintain an AUDIO ONLY product category as in the SP1.7 and the SP2.
The next model would have Audio stripped off but the Video would just be switched and not processed.
The Third model would handle both Audio and Video and process the Video as well.
No idea on the trade-in issue as we are still looking at being able to modify the existing SP2's to handle the new HD Audio formats. We really won't know till we have a complete SP3 together and functioning and see what can be filtered down to the SP1.7 and SP2.
We have most of the front panel and rear panel layouts done and we have been promised by our supplier that the new HD chips will be available any time now.
-
The design so far looks like we will have a base unit that will be Audio ONLY and the HDMI inputs will strip off the Audio and pass through the Video.
My concern was that, if there were a total absence of video circuitry in the base model, that would mean that we'd have to use an external device to separate the audio and video signals. Good to know that's not the case. :)
The next model would have Audio stripped off but the Video would just be switched and not processed.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between the level 1 and level 2 models, though. Assuming you have more than one HDMI input that you can switch between and a single HDMI video output which feeds out the video part of your currently selected input signal, then doesn't that consitute video switching? If the level 1 model can't do that then is it limited to a single HDMI input? Or, if it can, then what else is the level 2 model doing - switching between multiple outputs?
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Hi,
The number two model would 'switch' multiple video sources with the audio together (exactly like the SP2 and SPV 1 does now) but it would not Process the video.
The number 1 model would just 'passthrough' video.
Good news by the way I was informed on Friday that our HD Chips are on the way.
james
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The number two model would 'switch' multiple video sources with the audio together (exactly like the SP2 and SPV 1 does now) but it would not Process the video.
The number 1 model would just 'passthrough' video.
I still don't get it. :duh:
Presumably the model 1 has more than one HDMI input. Let's suppose it has got two HDMI inputs active, one is receiving a feed from my HD digital satellite STB, and the other from a BluRay player. Presumably you can switch between active inputs, so as to get the processor to process either the audio coming from the satellite feed or the audio from the BluRay player. It presumably also has an HDMI video output (so the video from the active input is "passed through" without any processing and goes from the output to the TV). Now, when you switch active inputs (e.g. switch between satellite and BluRay feeds) the video coming from the HDMI output presumably also switches from the satellite video to the BluRay video.
So, if what I've just said is correct, then the model 1 is functioning as a video switcher! Is part of that last paragraph wrong? Or does the model 2 do something above and beyond what I've described in the previous paragraph, but which still doesn't constitute "processing" the video? If so, what?
And, while we're on the subject, what sort of "processing" do you imagine the model 3 doing?
Good news by the way I was informed on Friday that our HD Chips are on the way.
:thumb:
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The number two model would 'switch' multiple video sources with the audio together (exactly like the SP2 and SPV 1 does now) but it would not Process the video.
The number 1 model would just 'passthrough' video.
I still don't get it. :duh:
Presumably the model 1 has more than one HDMI input. Let's suppose it has got two HDMI inputs active, one is receiving a feed from my HD digital satellite STB, and the other from a BluRay player. Presumably you can switch between active inputs, so as to get the processor to process either the audio coming from the satellite feed or the audio from the BluRay player. It presumably also has an HDMI video output (so the video from the active input is "passed through" without any processing and goes from the output to the TV). Now, when you switch active inputs (e.g. switch between satellite and BluRay feeds) the video coming from the HDMI output presumably also switches from the satellite video to the BluRay video.
So, if what I've just said is correct, then the model 1 is functioning as a video switcher! Is part of that last paragraph wrong? Or does the model 2 do something above and beyond what I've described in the previous paragraph, but which still doesn't constitute "processing" the video? If so, what?
And, while we're on the subject, what sort of "processing" do you imagine the model 3 doing?
Good news by the way I was informed on Friday that our HD Chips are on the way.
:thumb:
Hi Nicolasb,
I will try to get a more technical answer for you on the differences.
The video side of the SP3 is still a ways out so I will not be able to answer the "what processing" question till later.
james
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No idea on the trade-in issue as we are still looking at being able to modify the existing SP2's to handle the new HD Audio formats. We really won't know till we have a complete SP3 together and functioning and see what can be filtered down to the SP1.7 and SP2.
So James, If I understand correctly, upgrade the audio in the SP2 for the HD audio formats, and use a video switcher ( like the SVP) to take the hdmi inputs and pass the audio on to the SP2 via a digital input to be processed. Is that correct?
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No idea on the trade-in issue as we are still looking at being able to modify the existing SP2's to handle the new HD Audio formats. We really won't know till we have a complete SP3 together and functioning and see what can be filtered down to the SP1.7 and SP2.
So James, If I understand correctly, upgrade the audio in the SP2 for the HD audio formats, and use a video switcher ( like the SVP) to take the hdmi inputs and pass the audio on to the SP2 via a digital input to be processed. Is that correct?
Hi Ralph,
Still not sure if an upgrade to the SP2 will be possible but the hope is that we could do as you say. With the upgrade the only difference from the current SP2 will be the ability of the SP2 (upgraded version) to decode the new HD Audio formats.
james
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With the upgrade the only difference from the current SP2 will be the ability of the SP2 (upgraded version) to decode the new HD Audio formats.
And an HDMI input and output connector, I trust?
Otherwise, it wouldn't interest too many owners of SP2's.
Is you your think the same as when you said: - in part:
I am thinking that if possible it would be good if we had a few options available. If we can add a HDMI connector and new digital HD board to the SP1.7 and SP2 that would be option 1.
Option 2 would be a separate box that communicates with the current SP-2 or SP1.7 with HDMI and HD audio capability
Option 3 would be a trade in program for the SP3.
brucek
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Hi Nicolasb,
I will try to get a more technical answer for you on the differences.
If I'm too dumb to understand your last answer, what makes you think I'll understand a "more technical" one? :bomb:
j/k 8)
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Hi Nicolasb,
I will try to get a more technical answer for you on the differences.
If I'm too dumb to understand your last answer, what makes you think I'll understand a "more technical" one? :bomb:
j/k 8)
I think I am having trouble myself understanding it so I figured a more technical explaination at my end from the designer might bear fruit?
james
-
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between the level 1 and level 2 models, though. Assuming you have more than one HDMI input that you can switch between and a single HDMI video output which feeds out the video part of your currently selected input signal, then doesn't that constitute video switching? If the level 1 model can't do that then is it limited to a single HDMI input? Or, if it can, then what else is the level 2 model doing - switching between multiple outputs?
I am going to go out on a limb here and say yes, in its most basic way. It is a switcher is the way that a zektor MAS7.1 is. Such that it JUST passes through the unit, no processing.
There are a lot of high end manufacturers chomping at the bit to get this technology. That is, the ability to process audio in one box, video in another, but from the same HDMI feed. Look at the Cary Cinema 11A and Cary Cinema 11V.
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Good news - we recieved the HD circuit chips yesterday and we are going to put the first SP3 prototype together and I will give it a listen and report back.
james
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Good news - we recieved the HD circuit chips yesterday and we are going to put the first SP3 prototype together and I will give it a listen and report back.
james
God,
I wish my name could be James Tanner !!!! :green:
-
Hi Nicolasb,
I will try to get a more technical answer for you on the differences.
If I'm too dumb to understand your last answer, what makes you think I'll understand a "more technical" one? :bomb:
j/k 8)
I think I am having trouble myself understanding it so I figured a more technical explaination at my end from the designer might bear fruit?
james
Hi,
OK here is the explanation:
Version 1. ---1 HDMI Input - 1 HDMI Output, Video Pass-Through, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 2. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Video Switching Only, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 3. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Full Video Processing and Scaling, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing
james
-
all of them will have usb? :o
-
God,
I wish my name could be James Tanner !!!! :green:
You can have your name changed to James Tanner when you get married. :D
Humor me, I just can't help it. :lol:
This sounds good James! :thumb:
Keep us informed.
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OK here is the explanation:
Version 1. ---1 HDMI Input - 1 HDMI Output, Video Pass-Through, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 2. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Video Switching Only, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 3. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Full Video Processing and Scaling, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing
Ah, okay, that makes more sense: the version 1 won't be switching because it only has a single input!
That could be a bit limiting, though. :?
What chip are you going to use for the video processing?
And any idea what sort of price differential there will be between models? (I'm guessing quite a lot).
-
OK here is the explanation:
Version 1. ---1 HDMI Input - 1 HDMI Output, Video Pass-Through, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 2. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Video Switching Only, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 3. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Full Video Processing and Scaling, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing
Ah, okay, that makes more sense: the version 1 won't be switching because it only has a single input!
That could be a bit limiting, though. :?
What chip are you going to use for the video processing?
And any idea what sort of price differential there will be between models? (I'm guessing quite a lot).
Hi Nicolasb,
Not at all sure on the pricing yet and I agree we may forgo version 1.
I will check on the video processor for you. Our plan is to release the Audio version with Video switching first and then add the option of video processing as we go along.
james
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It looks like a TV with an HDMI input will be required to use an SP-3.
Is there any way around this ?
-
It looks like a TV with an HDMI input will be required to use an SP-3.
Is there any way around this ?
Hi Jethro,
Not sure I understand? The SP3 version 2 without 'video processing' would work exactly as the SP2 with the SPV-1 works now.
james
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It looks like a TV with an HDMI input will be required to use an SP-3.
Is there any way around this ?
In my system now I have a small secondary TV for DVD-A menus and to monitor something like the DVD-R if I don't want to waste projector bulb life. I've had a variety of small TVs about 7 ft. from the listening chair in there from a small 5.5 inch B&W to a cheap 13 inch color TV to a 19 inch flatscreen with lots of inputs. All you really need is a video switch with an RS 232 input and a switch that includes appropriate outputs. Also, I'm fine with the small LCD on the SP1.7 to do the initial set-up. Yes it is difficult to read from the listening chair, and if I really want to get lazy (which I usually don't do) I have an old broken camcorder (the camera still works) behind the 19 inch LCD focused on the display of the SP1.7 and hooked to one of the inputs of the LCD TV. Yes, I know it wasn't necessary :) - but, I got the TV for next to nothing with Philips VISA points, it works well to navigate thru DVD-A menus w/o turning on the projector and the other choice was throwing the camcorder out. I just got a 1080p projector in the main system (BenQ W5000) and ran an HDMI cable. For now I bought the Oppo switch and at the moment I just have my Marantz DV9600 and HDTV Tuner going thru it. It (the Oppo switch) has another input which I'll likely use at some point for a Blu-Ray player. It does have an RS232 input, but of course the Oppo switch also just has HDMI. If I really wanted to for the few times I'd play with the set up, I could always run an HDMI cable to the small LCD TV and then take it out. For me personally, video switching is likely a waste in the main system. I always run inputs from video equipment to the TV. If I end up with a Blu-Ray player in the main system, the main system backs to the bedroom system and when I get a new rec'r I may opt to run a cable thru the wall and put it into the bedroom rec'r for HDMI audio and video. But that's not something I'd use often or would be a big priority.
-
It looks like a TV with an HDMI input will be required to use an SP-3.
Is there any way around this ?
Hi Jethro,
Not sure I understand? The SP3 version 2 without 'video processing' would work exactly as the SP2 with the SPV-1 works now.
james
Sorry I should have given more details. My current TV only has component, s-video, etc inputs - no HDMI.
My concern was that I would have to use an HDMI output on a DVD-player to get some of the higher quality
audio into an SP-3 as opposed to using coax SPDIF (please correct me if I'm wrong). My current standard DVD-player
will not output on HDMI and component at the same time. I assume that the new higher definition DVD players
also have this limitation. This would leave me without a compatible video feed to my non-HDMI TV if I want to use the
DVD's HDMI output. I guess this leaves me with buying a new TV unless there are HDMI to component video converters
available-which I doubt or unless some of the newer audio formats can also be carried via SPDIF ?
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If you're talking about the higher quality audio from the new formats, you can also get a Blu-Ray player with multi-channel analog outs. You'll of course be limited to the bass management in the player. Std. def. DVD audio (e.g. Dolby Digital, DTS) is not going to be improved whether you use an HDMI connection or some other digital connection. Dolby Digital is delivered in packets much like internet protocol and pretty much it is there or it is not. So whether you use HDMI, toslink or coax you're outputting the same signal into the Bryston pre/pro. So if you're using your current std. def. DVD player, component for video and toslink or coax for digital. If your display doesn't have HDMI, what's the point of using HDMI for audio from your current DVD player?
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The way I see it, If you currently have an SP-1.7/2 setup with a non-HMDI TV, then to justify the purchase or upgrade of the SP-3.0
then you also have to buy an-HDMI TV and hi-def DVD player.
I'm not complaining it's just the direction of the industry.
Are there any other advantages to buying the SP-3 if you don't use HDMI ?
-
The way I see it, If you currently have an SP-1.7/2 setup with a non-HMDI TV, then to justify the purchase or upgrade of the SP-3.0
then you also have to buy an-HDMI TV and hi-def DVD player.
I'm not complaining it's just the direction of the industry.
Are there any other advantages to buying the SP-3 if you don't use HDMI ?
Hi jethro,
I will give that some thought. At home right now I am using an SP2/SPV-1 and the new Panasonic BlueRay player on the Component out to my Projector - which gives me 1080I on the BlueRay movies. And normal DD and DTS on the audio side.
james
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Hi jethro,
I will give that some thought. At home right now I am using an SP2/SPV-1 and the new Panasonic BlueRay player on the Component out to my Projector - which gives me 1080I on the BlueRay movies. And normal DD and DTS on the audio side.
james
James,
That's the problem - you guys did too good a job on the SP-1.7 ! :D
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OK here is the explanation:
Version 1. ---1 HDMI Input - 1 HDMI Output, Video Pass-Through, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 2. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Video Switching Only, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing.
Version 3. ---8 HDMI Inputs - 2 HDMI Outputs, Full Video Processing and Scaling, Full HI-DEF Audio Processing
Ah, okay, that makes more sense: the version 1 won't be switching because it only has a single input!
That could be a bit limiting, though. :?
What chip are you going to use for the video processing?
And any idea what sort of price differential there will be between models? (I'm guessing quite a lot).
Hi Nicolasb,
Not at all sure on the pricing yet and I agree we may forgo version 1.
I will check on the video processor for you. Our plan is to release the Audio version with Video switching first and then add the option of video processing as we go along.
james
Agreed. Versions 2 and 3 of the SP 3.0 are more interesting.
And the rough pricing is very exciting! $6k for HDMI and the HD flavors of DTS and Dolby, plus 7.1 analog bypass and balanced out, etc. Very cool !
Also like the option of a USB port for potential software upgrades of the unit.
Anxious to hear more as the SP 3.0 development cycle continues....
-
hello James. are the HDMI inputs in the new SP3.0 going to be HDMI 1.3 for video along with the uncompressed audio soundtrack, or just video?
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hello James. are the HDMI inputs in the new SP3.0 going to be HDMI 1.3 for video along with the uncompressed audio soundtrack, or just video?
HI,
Audio and Video.
I should have a prototype for the CEDIA show in September and I can give you more info then.
james
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prototype sounds good. look forward to the info then
-
Hi James...
So did you tried the prototype ?
How does it sound ?
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Hi James...
So did you tried the prototype ?
How does it sound ?
Hi Moz,
No I have not been able to listen to it yet. We are madly trying to get it assembled so we can show it at the CEDIA show next month and get feedback from our customers on the look and the options.
james
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP3 Prototype Surround Processor
August 15th, 2008
Please see below pictures of the new Bryston SP3 prototype surround processor that we will be displaying at the CEDIA Show in Denver next month.
Features:
Version 1 - one HDMI ‘IN’ --- one HDMI ‘OUT’
Version 2 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Switching
Version 3 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Processing
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11217/X3_Front_cropped.jpg
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11217/X3_back_cropped.jpg
Three rack-spaces, top rack-space reserved for OPTIONAL video board
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232– 2 inputs, Ethernet – 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic – 1 Input, Headphone –1 Stereo Input, 12 volt Triggers (1-In - 3 Out)
Digital Inputs – 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In – 1 Video Out
2- S Video In – 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In – 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In – 2 HDMI Out
-
Version 2 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Switching
Version 3 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Processing
What kind of "audio Processing" does that refer to for each of those two options?
Thanks,
Burke
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Version 2 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Switching
Version 3 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Processing
What kind of "audio Processing" does that refer to for each of those two options?
Thanks,
Burke
Hi Burke,
All the new formats such as Dolby Plus HD and DTS HD Master etc.
james
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Hi James,
The SP3 looks very nice.
A little confused on the physical size of it though.
You say its 3 rack spaces with top rack reserved for the video board, so does that mean if you go for version 2 it is only 2 rack spaces high?
Also what is a rack space in inches? what are the actual dimensions of the sp3 and are all versions the same size?
Are you planning to make it multi-voltage (as this would be much better) so it supports UK 240V or will you be making a seperate version for the uk?
Thanks
Richard
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Hi James,
The SP3 looks very nice.
A little confused on the physical size of it though.
You say its 3 rack spaces with top rack reserved for the video board, so does that mean if you go for version 2 it is only 2 rack spaces high?
Also what is a rack space in inches? what are the actual dimensions of the sp3 and are all versions the same size?
Are you planning to make it multi-voltage (as this would be much better) so it supports UK 240V or will you be making a seperate version for the uk?
Thanks
Richard
Hi Richard,
A rack space is 1.75 inches so 3 rack spaces is 5.25 inches high. No the top 1/3 of the rack space is reserved for the Video so all the chassis will be the same size and you can add video if you wish. The width will be 17 or 19 inches depending on the faceplate size and the depth will be about the same as the SP2.
It is not likely we will offer a universal power supply. We design the supplies to be optimized with specific voltages. 100 V for Japan, 240 for England - 230 for Europe, 120 for US etc. Also it will have dual power supplies with a dedicated Analog and Digital supply similar to our CD Player and External DAC designs.
The main aspect about the SP3 I wanted to preserve is the exceptional audio quality that the SP2 and SP1.7 enjoy. This means fully discrete class A analog circuits throughout (no IC's) , suberb LINEAR power supply design (not switching supplies) etc. Not to be negative but when you look at some processor designs they really are designed more like a computer that passes audio rather than a multi-channel state of the art audio preamp.
james
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Hi James...
So did you tried the prototype ?
How does it sound ?
Hi Moz,
No I have not been able to listen to it yet. We are madly trying to get it assembled so we can show it at the CEDIA show next month and get feedback from our customers on the look and the options.
james
I, for one, think the look is excellent!
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James
You made the point that you wanted to preserve the audio quality like the SP1.7/2. Is there any sacrifice in audio performance between option 1(audio only) and option 3(video processing and switching)? I remember from an old forum post that was the reason the SP1.7/2 didn't have video switching because of the sacrifice in audio performance.
Tony
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James
You made the point that you wanted to preserve the audio quality like the SP1.7/2. Is there any sacrifice in audio performance between option 1(audio only) and option 3(video processing and switching)? I remember from an old forum post that was the reason the SP1.7/2 didn't have video switching because of the sacrifice in audio performance.
Tony
Hi Tony,
No switching is not an issue the way processing is and even if you go with processing we are looking long and hard at maintaining completely different circuit paths and power supply---no sharing allowed.
That being said I personally will purchase number two.
james
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James:
Does version 3 have the ability to convert hi-res video from HDMI to standard-res video which can be output on component or S-video ?
This would allow me to replace my non-HDMI TV at a later time but take advantage of the hi-res audio.
--Steve
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James:
Does version 3 have the ability to convert hi-res video from HDMI to standard-res video which can be output on component or S-video ?
This would allow me to replace my non-HDMI TV at a later time but take advantage of the hi-res audio.
--Steve
Hi jethro,
I am going to have to check on that with engineering for you but I do know that any type of video input can be ouput on any other type. So you can go from S or Composite and output to Component or HDMI Video for example. Not sure if it can go the other way?
james
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James
In regards to the display does it turn off after a few seconds like SP1.7/2 or does it always stay on? Did the engineers look into the reliablity aspect of the display since it looks like a different from the previous one on the SP1.7/2? (My SP1.7 went out after 3 years of use, that's why I'm asking)
Tony
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James
In regards to the display does it turn off after a few seconds like SP1.7/2 or does it always stay on? Did the engineers look into the reliablity aspect of the display since it looks like a different from the previous one on the SP1.7/2? (My SP1.7 went out after 3 years of use, that's why I'm asking)
Tony
Hi Tony,
Yes the display is about twice as big and a very long lasting type. The 'dimming' or 'out' can be done in software.
james
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Hi James, I have a question on the new SP 3.0...I am what some may call a power user, and I wonder if this processor will let me make changes on the fly? As you know, not every DVD or CD sound the same, and I prefer to make adjustments on the fly accordingly. Second, will I have the option of doing an on screen display since the 3.0 has video?
Thanks,
Randy
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james,
so the sp3's display colour (letters) is blue. Bryston always used to have green led and letters in their
displays. if the new colour will be blue it wouldn't really match the former cosmetics...
al.
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James,
I don't see an analog balance control. Will there be a way to adjust balance when using the 2-channel analog bypass?
Gary
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Hi James, I have a question on the new SP 3.0...I am what some may call a power user, and I wonder if this processor will let me make changes on the fly? As you know, not every DVD or CD sound the same, and I prefer to make adjustments on the fly accordingly. Second, will I have the option of doing an on screen display since the 3.0 has video?
Thanks,
Randy
Hi Randy,
Not sure on the 'on the fly' thing.
Yes the video on board will allow for on-screen display.
james
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james,
so the sp3's display colour (letters) is blue. Bryston always used to have green led and letters in their
displays. if the new colour will be blue it wouldn't really match the former cosmetics...
al.
Hi Alex,
It's blue in the photo but it can be any colour we want.
james
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James,
I don't see an analog balance control. Will there be a way to adjust balance when using the 2-channel analog bypass?
Gary
Hi Gary,
We will probably do the stereo balance in software so you can just use the remote control.
james
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Hello everybody!
I’m from Germany and this is my first post in this forum. I’m not an owner of Bryston stuff right now, but I had the chance to see/hear some of their amps (3B SST, 4B SST, 7B SST) in action and was always fascinated by the sound quality and the extreme-well-built design.
Now I’m very interested in the upcoming SP 3.0, which seem to fit exactly to my home theatre system as far as connections and features are concerned. I think it’s a very good idea to keep the video processing out of the unit for those who didn’t need or want it. Additionally I like the option of choosing from black/silver and 17” or 19” front plates. I’m thrilled by the idea of making this piece the new heart of my system.
I’m also impressed by the fact, that one of the manufacturer’s guarantors (James Tanner) is using a platform like this to communicate with the customers. He seems to be responsive to their feedbacks and wishes and I don’t know many other companies that care about the customers in such an exemplary way. This is the reason why I decided to start posting here, because there are some thoughts/wishes that I want to share with Mr. Tanner and I-m interested in the other user’s opinions:
First point: Built-In DACs
A lot of high(er) end manufacturers have the claim to reach “high end audio quality” (I think Mr. Tanner stated this claim for the SP 3.0 somewhere in this thread, too) with their components. When you take a closer look to todays AV-Processors market (there are a lot of companies launching or announcing Pre/Pros with HDMI 1.3 inputs, high resolution audio decoding, balanced outputs, and so on…), there are or will be some products, for which only the price itself should/could be an indicator for the claim of “high end audio quality”.
I think some of the most important parts, if not THE most important, as far as audio quality is concerned, are the built-in DACs. But when you look at the mentioned “high end components” there are very few, if any, that contains the best/latest available DACs (for example Burr Browns PCM1792A). Normally, they use very good alternative DACs, but I think, “very good” is not enough for high end. For me it seems to be obvious, that a reason for using “very good DACs” instead of “high end DACs” is reducing the cost factor, because in a 7.1-processor you’ll need up to 8 DACs. When we look at the BB 1792A, the additional costs in comparison to the “common” DACs is about 10 $ per piece. So the extra cost in a 7.1-setup would be about 80 $. I think this should not be a cost problem/argument in a 5k+ piece of equipment. The implementation of those chips (I know, it works with cheaper DAcs, too) would allow you to built a full differential circuit and a truly balanced signal-path, which should be great for excellent, noise-free (see the second point below) audio quality. If this should really be a significant cost factor, I’m willing to spend a few hundred extra-$ for this accoutrement (8 x BB 1792A, full balanced design), which would be a unique selling proposition in the surround-processor market.
Second Point: Signal-to-Noise-Ratio
I have a 7.2-Setup with horn-loaded main-speakers. Those have high efficient horn-tweeters with a sensitivity of over 100 dB (@1 Watt, 1 metre). These speakers are very sensible (and so am I) in matters of any noise. So I prefer components that have a “dead quiet” noise floor. And this seems to be a weak point of surround-processors in general. The datasheets show us, that the typical S/N-Ratio is somewhere between 95 and 105 dB (with digital inputs). Reviews with according measurements document these figures (for example: Review of the Bryston SP2 from German AUDIOVISION 09/2006).
I know that there are more important factors than figures when we talk about sound quality, but in my special case, this spec is very important. To be honest, I have never heard the SP2 and never tested it in my system, so I can’t say if this one would cause any noise in my setup. But I tried some other pre/pros that were measured by AUDIOVISION with comparable (nad even a little better) results and they all caused low, but clearly noticeable noise.
To make it clear: those specs are not bad and in most applications it will produce superior sound quality. But again, “very good” is not “high-end” and with the best DACs (the BB 1792A is specified with a SNR of 127 dB!!!) and a consistent, well-engineered circuit I think it should be possible to reach a S/N-Ratio in the range of 115 to 120 dB??
Why are the manufacturers offering balanced outputs for “noise-free” interconnections when the unit itself is working with middle-rate (in comparison to what should be possible today) S/N-R? I think the reason for adding balanced connectors is a marketing action instead of an instrument for consistent noise reduction. I think in this case I’d better take a 1000 $ - AVR with pre-outs and use it as a pre/pro. Those reach easily the S/N-Ratios that are offered by the high-end surround processors.
I’d be very happy, if Bryston would make an exemption with new SP 3.0 and offer a considerable advancement in this certain feature.
Maybe this is too much wishful thinking, but we’re talking of “high end stuff”, which is built to make dreams come true aa.
I’m curious about the opinions of the other users according to these points?
Best regards
Hubertus Stratmann
P.S.: I hope you’re able to understand what I wrote. It’s a lot of years ago that I had to write a text in English, so please forgive the faults.
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Hi all,
Bryston brings me to this web site, I am from the UK and have got two 2b which are 18 years old now and i had them from new :D also i have got 4bst and now my beloved 4bsst, Please do not take me for bragging i just want to show all how much i love the Bryston way.
Anyway my Question is about Bass management, What increments will you use for speakers 1cm? or more, will you use any form of room EQ, I know it can or will limit Dynamic range but could be a blessing in a lot of our smaller rooms in the UK.
Crossover points will it be 10,20,30 etc or 10,15,20 so on.
I so crave a Bryston Processor and nearly did 1 year ago but the fast approaching 1.3 HDMI put me off, but now speak of SP.3 "oh boy"
What DSP Engine will you use and what DACs "sorry for so many Questions.
James Tanner your a very lucky man :wink:
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James,
I don't see an analog balance control. Will there be a way to adjust balance when using the 2-channel analog bypass?
Gary
Hi Gary,
We will probably do the stereo balance in software so you can just use the remote control.
james
James,
Use of the word "software" with "analog bypass" confuses me. Are you saying the SP-3 will run the signal through some sort of digital processing (software) for stereo balance in 2-channel bypass mode?
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James,
I don't see an analog balance control. Will there be a way to adjust balance when using the 2-channel analog bypass?
Gary
We will probably do the stereo balance in software so you can just use the remote control.
james
James,
Use of the word "software" with "analog bypass" confuses me. Are you saying the SP-3 will run the signal through some sort of digital processing (software) for stereo balance in 2-channel bypass mode?
Hi Gary,
As I understand it we are gonig to control the internal analog balance control with software rather than a physical knob.
james
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James
What does the video processing do for option 3?
Tony
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James
What does the video processing do for option 3?
Tony
Hi Tony,
We are still looking at video boards but at this point option 3 would do 'video conversion' from any input to any output and allow for video switching with audio.
Version 2 would just be a switcher with no video board installed.
james
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As I understand it we are gonig to control the internal analog balance control with software rather than a physical knob.
How is that possible while maintaining a strict analog only path? Even the volume control is a motorized analog control.
brucek
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As I understand it we are gonig to control the internal analog balance control with software rather than a physical knob.
How is that possible while maintaining a strict analog only path? Even the volume control is a motorized analog control.
brucek
Hi Brucek,
As I understand it the same design the we use in the B100. A micro processor controls an analog step attenuator. I will try and get a more technical description for you from engineering.
james
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As I understand it we are gonig to control the internal analog balance control with software rather than a physical knob.
How is that possible while maintaining a strict analog only path? Even the volume control is a motorized analog control.
brucek
Hi Brucek,
As I understand it the same design the we use in the B100. A micro processor controls an analog step attenuator. I will try and get a more technical description for you from engineering.
james
Hi Brucek:
The SP3 does not have any DSP’s in the circuit path in the analog bypass mode. The new SP3 maintains the superiority of discrete analog class A circuits while taking advantage of ‘software control’ in our new digitally controlled volume.
The digitally controlled volume utilizes a resistance network on a chip. This technology, in reference to the signal path, is still implemented in the analog mode. It offers many advantages, for instance perfect channel balance, a simple integrated balance adjustment without additional parts, practically zero adjustment noises, first class behavior in reference to noise and distortion, as well as adjustment via software.
james
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Interesting... thanks james..
brucek
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Hi Tony,
We are still looking at video boards but at this point option 3 would do 'video conversion' from any input to any output and allow for video switching with audio.
Version 2 would just be a switcher with no video board installed.
james
Hi James,
Got a lot of questions from french customers concerning the scaling part !
Do you have any idea what kind of level will you meet on video processing ?
HQV reon, HQV realta, Gennum VXP or something else or just "basic upscaling" ?
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Hi Tony,
We are still looking at video boards but at this point option 3 would do 'video conversion' from any input to any output and allow for video switching with audio.
Version 2 would just be a switcher with no video board installed.
james
Hi James,
Got a lot of questions from french customers concerning the scaling part !
Do you have any idea what kind of level will you meet on video processing ?
HQV reon, HQV realta, Gennum VXP or something else or just "basic upscaling" ?
Hi MOZ
Right now we are looking at the Gennum.
james
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Nice !
I just hope you'll get it to work the way it should...
JVC is not using it at it's max potential on the HD1/HD100 but Anthem does it much better or Marantz on their VP series.
You should look at the way it works on a JVC HD100, then on an Anthem D2... and get the best of both worlds :wink:
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Hi Everyone,
Well we have looked at this upgrade vs. trade-in policy on the Bryston SP3 surround processor and we are leaning towards a trade-in policy for owners of the SP1.7’s and SP2’s.
There are simply too many technical changes in our industry to try and implement them into the older designs.
I have no idea yet what the new retail price will be on the 3 versions of the new SP3 and we are still about 6 –8 months away from a finished product but I will keep everyone updated as we move forward.
As usual I am open to any suggestions.
James.
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just a thought:
anyone who is really interested in the new sp3 will love Bryston for the trade in.
al.
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Actually I think James is giving himself one huge nightmare, and this from a prospective buyer with a trade in. :duh:
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agreed. it must be like to have the choice between pest or cholera...
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James,
Any word yet on whether the SP3 will allow the reclocking of incoming audio signals to remove jitter (perhaps in the same way as a BP26DA does)?
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James,
Any word yet on whether the SP3 will allow the reclocking of incoming audio signals to remove jitter (perhaps in the same way as a BP26DA does)?
Not sure on that one - will ask engineering.
james
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James,
Any word yet on whether the SP3 will allow the reclocking of incoming audio signals to remove jitter (perhaps in the same way as a BP26DA does)?
Not sure on that one - will ask engineering.
james
Hi nicolasb,
Engineering tells me yes the new SP3 will resample the input.
james
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Engineering tells me yes the new SP3 will resample the input.
Sweet! :D
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Any info on bass management yet "Audyssey" or any other type, and what will the speaker measurements be 1cm or more.
Regards
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Any info on bass management yet "Audyssey" or any other type, and what will the speaker measurements be 1cm or more.
Regards
Hi ashmanuk,
No sorry no info on that yet.
james
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that's what i didn't dare to ask for...but for all sp owners it would be the sweetest case, i think.
what do you mean exactly on ''how to structure it'' ? i assume you don't want suggestions for inputs/outputs for the new sp3, 'cause we already talked about that (digital/analog xlr ins/outs, usb, external power supply and so on...)
alex.
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that's what i didn't dare to ask for...but for all sp owners it would be the sweetest case, i think.
what do you mean exactly on ''how to structure it'' ? i assume you don't want suggestions for inputs/outputs for the new sp3, 'cause we already talked about that (digital/analog xlr ins/outs, usb, external power supply and so on...)
alex.
uups! i just wanted to modify my own answer...and hit the wrong button. :o :o
sorry, guys. (maybe a drink too much?!)
al.
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Just looking at the back of the new SP3 you seem to show only one XLR sub out, :(
I know Audyessy is Associated with main stream products, but with later softwear it will time allign multi sub set up`s which in the higher end of the market i am sure alot of people would be running at least two subs.
This surley would be a big advantage :drool:
Though i have to say betime we all put our pennys worth in then the SP3 would never be Launched :lol:
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Just looking at the back of the new SP3 you seem to show only one XLR sub out, :(
I know Audyessy is Associated with main stream products, but with later softwear it will time allign multi sub set up`s which in the higher end of the market i am sure alot of people would be running at least two subs.
This surley would be a big advantage :drool:
Though i have to say betime we all put our pennys worth in then the SP3 would never be Launched :lol:
Hi Ashmanuk,
My Thiel subs have an XLR and an RCA 'IN' and 'OUT' so you can just daisy -chain (link) the subs together. I guess that is not true of most subs?
james
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Just looking at the back of the new SP3 you seem to show only one XLR sub out, :(
I know Audyessy is Associated with main stream products, but with later softwear it will time allign multi sub set up`s which in the higher end of the market i am sure alot of people would be running at least two subs.
This surley would be a big advantage :drool:
Though i have to say betime we all put our pennys worth in then the SP3 would never be Launched :lol:
I made myself a custom cable for the SP1.7 with one XLR on the pre/pro going to separate XLRs on each of my Rel Storm III subs. I did briefly look for splitters (I had good RCA ones) but did not locate any when I looked.
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The only issue would be if you have to equalize each sub independently with some EQ system.
James
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James,
Got a question concerning the DACs you're gonna use in the SP3.
Will it be the same as in the SP2 or will we get some results on par with the one we can hear on the BCD-1 ?
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Sorry... can't delete this one...
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James,
Got a question concerning the DACs you're gonna use in the SP3.
Will it be the same as in the SP2 or will we get some results on par with the one we can hear on the BCD-1 ?
Hi Moz,
Yes we are going to use the DAC's in the CD Player (BCD-1) and External DA (BDA-1) in the SP3.
james
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Will you provide the same treatment regarding analog results as found on the BCD-1 ?
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Will you provide the same treatment regarding analog results as found on the BCD-1 ?
Hi Moz,
Not sure I undestand that question - the CD Player uses the same Discrete Class A analog circuits we use in the SP2 and the new SP3.
james
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Not easy to explain in english...
I mean, i get better results using the DACs/treatment of the BCD-1 than if i let the SP2 do the job.
With the new SP3, if i give it a clean digital stream... will i get the same "waouuuh effect" ?
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Not easy to explain in english...
I mean, i get better results using the DACs/treatment of the BCD-1 than if i let the SP2 do the job.
With the new SP3, if i give it a clean digital stream... will i get the same "waouuuh effect" ?
OK - I understand.
Technically the all in one CD Player will peform better than using the CD Player digital ouput into an outboard processor.
james
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That's what i though...
Ok, but the new DACs should perform better on 7.1 anyway :thumb:
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Another question James,
I use the analog out of the BCD-1 and i let the SP2 redigitilize the analog in (not using the bypass)...in order to get a 2.1 out of the SP2 (need my sub, fronts are THX 80Hz).
I also get better results than if i let the SP2 get a bitstream from the BCD-1... even if it gets AD and then DA convertions...
Am i right doing that way ?
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That's what i though...
Ok, but the new DACs should perform better on 7.1 anyway :thumb:
Hi Moz,
You know its a good question about the DAC's being better. We have run blind tests here with the older Crystal DAC (like in the BP26 and the B100) vs the newer Crystal DAC in the CD Player and the BDA-1. So far no one can reliably tell the difference.
As I have said before my feeling is the it is the fully discrete Class A Bryston analog proprietary circuits around the DAC's and the serious attantion to power supply and circuit routing rather than the specific DAC used that really sets the quality of the Bryston digital gear apart.
james
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Another question James,
I use the analog out of the BCD-1 and i let the SP2 redigitilize the analog in (not using the bypass)...in order to get a 2.1 out of the SP2 (need my sub, fronts are THX 80Hz).
I also get better results than if i let the SP2 get a bitstream from the BCD-1... even if it gets AD and then DA convertions...
Am i right doing that way ?
Hi MOZ,
The way your doing it seems fine if the .1 is needed.
Always believe your ears.
james
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use the analog out of the BCD-1 and i let the SP2 redigitilize the analog in (not using the bypass)...in order to get a 2.1 out of the SP2
You do realize that there is a code to enable the sub in analog bypass mode so as to obtain 2.1
brucek
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Another question James,
I use the analog out of the BCD-1 and i let the SP2 redigitilize the analog in (not using the bypass)...in order to get a 2.1 out of the SP2 (need my sub, fronts are THX 80Hz).
I also get better results than if i let the SP2 get a bitstream from the BCD-1... even if it gets AD and then DA convertions...
Am i right doing that way ?
A possible problem as a result of having restored some cd's, is that converting some recordings back to digital may result in too much sampling as the digital conversion would most likely up convert some more. It would also add some jitter but being that the jitter level is very low out of the BCD-1 you probably won't even notice.
I only see this as a possible problem with some re-mastered recordings. In that it may make the highs too shrill, sharp or ear piercing at loud volume levels.
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Brucek, i believe i have already tried this long time ago and the problem is that you don't have any filtering (you get full range, not just sub info !). My next moove will definitively be on new "full range" speakers..
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i have already tried this long time ago and the problem is that you don't have any filtering (you get full range, not just sub info
Yep, I added an external analog crossover before the sub that I switch in and out when I change to bypass. Most subs have an internal low pass filter that you can switch in and out for this duty.... To me, the main reason for the SP2 is the analog bypass..........
brucek
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test :D
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James, is their any idea of MSRP for each level of player yet? and is there an expected timeframe for release?
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James, is their any idea of MSRP for each level of player yet? and is there an expected timeframe for release?
Hi,
There is still a ton of software to do so we are saying 6 months out at this point.
No idea on pricing other than I know the video side addition will be in the $2000 to $2500 range over and above the cost of version 2.
james
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Hi James,
I'm being asked about DSD decoding thru HDMI in ?
Is that scheduled for the SP3 ?
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hi james, when i saw the photo of the sp3 i was very disappointed. i had expected a larger version of the sp2, larger display etc.. i love the sp2 faceplate, the look of the sp2 buttons with leds above them in the square cutout along the faceplate. i know all things must change.i guess my question is why such a drastic change. i cant speak for anyone else ,but i really like the existing bryston look.when i look at the sp3 photos my eyes are drawn to the groove in the middle then i look up and down like its 2 separate components instead of one solid faceplate, maybe its just me..... also i could not tell if the sp3 had the leds in the middle of the buttons ,but as i said i like the sp2 style buttons and overall faceplate ,,,, and please use green instead of blue for display etc.. this of course is my opinion but i think green is easier to read and easier on the eyes ,and as someone else pointed out it matches our amps. thx, mc.
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Personally i like the look of the sp3 with the grove in the middle as that matches the current design of the power amps, and i think the sp2 looks a little dated compared to the sp3 which has a more modern styling.
I do agree though that the led's/display probably would look better green to also match the current amps.
But as you say, this is only my personal opinion and i am sure we all have different ideas.
Richard
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Personally i like the look of the sp3 with the grove in the middle as that matches the current design of the power amps, and i think the sp2 looks a little dated compared to the sp3 which has a more modern styling.
I do agree though that the led's/display probably would look better green to also match the current amps.
But as you say, this is only my personal opinion and i am sure we all have different ideas.
Richard
im not sure what you are comparing the sp2 to call it looking dated. what equipment are you comparing the sp2 that makes it look dated. i think it looks better than anything else out there . also i want my pre/amp and amps to match but iwant my pre amp to have its own look and stand out
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As I said was comparing the sp2 to the sp3.
The sp2 does look nice, just think the sp3 looks better.
Again just my personal opinion.
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James,
Bryston will offer at least two instead of three versions of the sp3. correct?
alex.
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I would have dreamt to see a Trinnov licence embedded in SP3...
http://www.trinnov-audio.com/news.php
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James,
Bryston will offer at least two instead of three versions of the sp3. correct?
alex.
Hi Alex,
Based on the feedback we got at the recent CEDIA show from our dealers I think we are going to offer 2 models instead of 3 of the SP3.
The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
The 2nd version will have the same inputs but switch Audio and Video.
james
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Hi James:
I have a few suggestions, which I'd humbly like to present to you.
1. Most pre/pro marketing is aimed at the video segment of the market. That segment
requires 7.1 audio.
James, you state that the SP3 will be first and foremost a product concerned with audio
performance. SACD and DVD-Audio are either stereo or 5.1 formats. I believe that music
(with and without video) on Blu Ray will primarily remain a 5.1 format, at least for the
next few years. That means a correct 5.1 surround speaker placement must also be supported
by the SP3.
I am not aware of a pre/pro that allows both a complete 5.1 and a 7.1 setup in the same room,
with the correct surround speaker placement required by the surround mode of the source material.
I suggest that Bryston is in an ideal position to rectify this problem with the SP3.
To correctly implement both a 5.1 and a 7.1 setup in one room, the pre/pro must offer
dual outputs for the surround speakers. One set of outputs would be for the 7.1 surrounds
which are placed to the side of the listening position. The second set would be utilized for the 5.1
surrounds, which would be placed in the traditional rear surround speaker position.
The surround back speakers used for 7.1 material should be automatically muted when the pre/pro
has a 5.1 source. And, of course, the unused mode's surrounds should be muted as well, or both
the 5.1 and 7.1 surrounds would play simultaneously. This would ruin the whole purpose of having
both setups in one room.
Since the SP3 has tape loops which have stereo outputs, a pair of these could be
configured for the 5.1 surrounds. Therefore, no additional physical outputs would need to
be added to the SP3. All switching, muting and output configurations could be implemented in
software.
2. Offer an expansion module that has 8 channels of ADAT optical 24/96 inputs
(under S/MUX), 8 balanced TRS inputs, and a Firewire output. You could also
consider a DB-25 connector for the 8 channels of analog audio input.
With these options, the SP3 would then be the ideal front end for a DAW
as an audio interface. It would have audiophile quality conversion, balanced inputs
and outputs, and built in video.
I believe that in a few years, all music will be encoded in Dolby True HD or DTS MA Lossless
format (whether for release on Blu Ray disc or as a download). This will make a pre/pro
with these codecs a mandatory item in all studios.
There is not one audio interface on the small studio market with HDMI audio/video, and
advanced codec support. If Bryston were to release a 'version 4' of the SP3 with these options, I believe
you would grab a huge share of this market.
Should you feel that adding an audio interface module would be too much, there is a
compromise that could still quite easily get the SP3 into the studio market. Simply make
the multiple coaxial and optical inputs configurable in software as a single multichannel input.
This would let a studio with an existing audio audio interface to connect digitally to the SP3
and use it as a front end for its digital audio workstation software.
Steven.
-
Hi Steven,
Thank you for your input. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about 5.1 and 6.1 or 7.1 speaker placement.
In all the studios I have been in there is no such thing as SIDE speakers. The 'REAR' speakers are placed at 110 degrees from the front and the 'BACK' speakers are placed, depending on one or two speakers, directly behind the head or spead to each side of the head for coverage purposes.
Correct me if I am misinformed but a proper 6.1 or 7.1 setup is simply a matter of adding one or two BACK speakers to an existing 5.1 setup?
james
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James:
You are correct about the great confusion about 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 speaker placement.
However, I am sorry, but with all due respect, you are incorrect when you state "there is no such thing as SIDE speakers".
Check out this URL:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/thx-select-and-thx-ultra2-certification-general-questions/thx-select-and-thx-ultra2-certification-general-questions-page-2
THX 7.1 surrounds are supposed to be placed at 90 degrees to the listening position, not at 110 degrees (which is the only correct position for 5.1 music). A pair of surround 'back' speakers are required as well. They can be placed on the back wall together or slightly apart from one another. Their orientation and placement on the back wall depends on whether they are conventional, dipolar or biplolar.
Both sets of surround speakers ideally should be placed up on the wall, angled slightly down toward the listeners.
The bottom line is that for movies, surround sound diffusion, not precise imaging is paramount (sorry, I couldn't resist the pun).
Quoting Practical-Home-Theater-Guide.com,
"Unlike the front speakers, the job of the surrounds in a home theater is to create a cloud of non-localized sound that envelops the viewer. It is this diffused rear sound field, which actually makes you feel like you are in the middle of the movie action."
Note that both sites show side placement of surrounds for 7.1 movies.
For 5.1 music, 110 degree rear surround is the only correct speaker placement.
Yes, you can put the 7.1 surrounds at 110 degrees and compromise on movie surround placement if music is more important to you. Or you can place the surrounds at the correct side position for movies, but this completely ruins the rear image of 5.1 music.
Why should you have to compromise?
If a CE manufacturer expects a consumer to pay $2000 or more for a preamp/processor, he or she should be able to expect to be provided with the ability to correctly play back multichannel music as well as movie soundtracks. So far, there isn't one CE manufacturer that makes a pre/pro with which one can achieve this simple requirement.
James, Bryston is on the right track with the SP3. I believe that if Bryston implemented and properly marketed this simple feature, you'd blow the market away.
Steven
-
Hi Steven,
OK I see your point.
I have to say though that THX may have a recommended positioning but in my opinion I feel the Dolby and DTS recommended positions are much more like I see in recoding and film scoring studios.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html
As for the non directional aspect of surround movie mixes I am not a sound recording engineer but I find more and more movie sound tracks are using discrete sounds to specific speakers to create surround effects. I think the ability to use the surrounds as 'direct' or 'ambient' sources makes a lot of sense. I think in the past where Dolby Pro Logic only allowed for non discrete sources recording engineers were forced to view the surrounds as fill only. Today with discrete sound sources available the ability to play with surround effects has improved substantially.
It is good food for thought though and I will check with a few major music/movie scoring engineers I know and get their feedback.
james
-
I use both setups:5.1 (in ITU setup, direct radiating identical SP Tech Revelations/Continuums dedicated for hirez music) and 7.1 (with classic 90 degree and 150 degree wall/sloped ceiling mounted dipoles for movies). It takes up some real estate but gives me the best of each. 7.1 is not just 5.1 with back speakers, as Steven points out. Yes, the discrete 5.1 and 7.1 movie sound codecs are now full-range. But I will add that to use direct radiators for 7.1 can be slightly problematic when trying to create a diffuse soundfield for multiple movie viewers. Direct sides and/or rears can blast out or at least drown out those folks significantly off center. Not a huge deal, but one worth thinking about. For 5.1 hirez music...I dont care about off center listeners, it's more about my solo "sweetspot" concern anyway. :D
-
teb_b points out:
to use direct radiators for 7.1 can be slightly problematic when trying to create a diffuse soundfield for multiple movie viewers.
Agreed. That's why I wish I could use four THX Ultra2 certified dipoles for movies and my Apogee ribbons for music playback.
Right now, I have to compromise. Since no one makes a pre/pro that lets me setup both 5.1 and 7.1 properly, I still haven't upgraded my Marantz SR-8500 receiver.
Currently, I have a 5.0 setup that I use for both music and movies. My main speakers are Apogee Mini Grands. They have subs built in to their bases, and use an active crossover. I have Apogee Centaur Minors in the rear and an Apogee Persius LCR center channel speaker.
I run all of my Apogees in full range mode, with no sub in my receiver's speaker setup. I never have bass management issues, in case anyone wonders. The M-Gs subs produce bass down to 25 hz (-3db).
Steven
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ted_b stated:
Direct sides and/or rears can blast out or at least drown out those folks significantly off center. Not a huge deal, but one worth thinking about.
That's where Audyssey XT Pro room correction may help. Since it lets the installer use more than the 6 measuring positions than the basic Audyssey XT , and also allows for saving multiple setups, it would be relatively easy to create a custom setting which drops the side surround levels. You could also save a 'sweet spot perfect' setting.
Steven
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Based on the feedback we got at the recent CEDIA show from our dealers I think we are going to offer 2 models instead of 3 of the SP3.
The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
The 2nd version will have the same inputs but switch Audio and Video.
james
That's a winning approach. With only 1 HDMI in and 1 HDMI out, the first SP 3 model didn't sound very appealing at all.
The other two (audio focused and audio + video) make a lot of sense !
Look forward to hearing more on the SP 3 as your work progresses....
-
Hi James,
Un-answered questions :
- what about DSD decoding thru HDMI in ?
- i believe you know the ANTHEM D2 upgrade... will you use the new VXP cheap as well (VXP9452) ?
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS82958+14-Apr-2008+BW20080414
MOZ
-
Hi James,
Un-answered questions :
- what about DSD decoding thru HDMI in ?
- i believe you know the ANTHEM D2 upgrade... will you use the new VXP cheap as well (VXP9452) ?
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS82958+14-Apr-2008+BW20080414
MOZ
Hi Moz,
We have not discussed the option of DSD decoding at this point.
james
-
Hi James:
Here are some more suggestions.
The first one is actually a reply to your HDMI Issues? thread.
Check out the mod available that offers three coaxial digital outputs
(front, rear, center +sub) for DVD-A and SACD on most universal
DVD/DVD-A/SACD players.
http://www.switch-box.com/Home.html
Hopefully, Switch-Box.com will make this mod available
for the upcoming OPPO BD-83 Blu Ray Player.
If you could make the 3 coaxial digital inputs on the SP3 act as a
single 5.1 input (which your engineers might be able to implement
within the SP3's operating system software), there would be no
need to use HDMI with high bit rate codecs (True HD and MA lossless).
The second suggestion involves built in room correction.
If you do add this feature to the SP3, please make it possible to
have three presets. This is a critical omission with most room correction as
implemented in other pre/processors and AVRs. One preset would be for
2.0 or 2.1 audio.One preset would be for 5.1 audio. And one would be for
7.1 audio.
Room correction algorithms must involve all active speakers. Corrections for
room/speaker interaction, speaker non-linearities, etc., must be determined
as a system. But since two channel music doesn't use surrounds or a center
speaker, doing room correction for stereo must not involve those inactive speakers.
Also, if Bryston does implement a 5.1 + 7.1 capable setup, there should be
room correction presets for each set of speakers.
The third suggestion involves radio. Please check with Sirius/XM. They will
soon have a single home receiver that will be able to support both systems.
I'd really like to see the SP3 with a port for that receiver. The port will
connect the receiver digitally. Without the port, to use the receiver, an SP3
owner would have to connect the receiver via analog outputs. Considering
the poor D/A conversion in the receiver, that would be a really bad solution.
I'd also like to see an optional radio module available that would have
standard AM/FM and HD radio capability.
The fourth suggestion involves the HDMI outputs.
I really wish that Bryston could make each output simultaneously
active, with independent input selection for each output.
The second output would be totally passive, require absolutely no processing
within the SP3. It would simply pass the audio and video feed present at its selected
input. Further, it would require the input to be from one of the SP3's HDMI
inputs. This would relieve the SP3 from any requirement for A/D conversion and/or
scaling from analog sources (either audio or video).
The second output could go directly to a second HDTV, another pre/pro or an AVR
in a second room. With an RF capable remote control, this would save SP3 owners
the cost of duplicating source components to outfit two rooms.
Steven
-
Thanks Steven,
I will pass this along to engineering.
james
-
Thanks to your expert advice during the prepurchase process, James, I have three lonely Bryston SST(C) amps for my 7.2 HT system: a 6B and two 4B units. They are awaiting anxiously the arrival of the SP3.
I’m sure that Bryston has considered that, at the projected price points you’ve presented in this forum, you’re competing with well regarded products, such as the Anthem D2 (soon to have HDMI 1.3c) @US$8K, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI @US$7.5K, and others from Classé, Cary, Krell, Lexicon, and other high-end manufacturers.
There are some key features that several of these products offer that merit consideration for the SP3 (I’ve placed an asterisk by the items that are, for me, deal breakers):
1. *HDMI 1.3c (or later) connections; 6-8 in, two (or more) out
2. *Latest HD codecs, DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby True HD, the latest iterations of lossy DTS and Dolby codecs, Pro-Logic and other apt codecs (perhaps even HDCD decoding)
3. *Room correction, both auto EQ and advanced manual settings: e.g., Audyssey MultEQ XT, Audyssey Dynamic Volume and XT Pro Installer (ideally, with license included; sub-ideally, with license available through Bryston)
4. *Dual (or better) subwoofer outputs (for stereo subs and LFE)
5. *Firmware upgrades via USB, Ethernet, or CD/DVD media (perhaps WiFi capable)
6. *Optical and coaxial digital connectors for each input
7. *12V triggers for Bryston amps (perhaps RS232 for others)
8. Modular construction for upgradability
9. Large, readable front panel display (with user-programmable input names); green color to match other Bryston products; OSD display
10. A highly usable (e.g., Tufte-inspired) backlit remote with direct: input switching, mute control, volume, and DVD/CD transport, audio format, and subtitle controls (these are often relegated to submenus)
11. Two stereo balanced in (e.g., for BCD-1 CD player and for CD/SACD from multiformat player)
12. Fully balanced, input to output, esp. when using Bryston amps (with polarity switch for each channel)
13. For video version: Silicon Optix Realta HQV processor or better
14. For video version: Dual HDMI outs both active (to two displays simultaneously—for Cup finals parties)
15. A clear and thorough user manual, with an online update site.
It makes sense to have two versions of the product (with the audio-only version being upgradable to video). Perhaps like many people on this forum, the audio side is key to my interests; my Pioneer Elite plasma TV is good enough for me as far as video scaling and the other mysteries of HDTV. Also, perhaps like many here, features such as a lo-fi iPod dock, net radio, and multiple zones, are of little interest.
Thanks for your attention,
Rich
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James,
Bryston will offer at least two instead of three versions of the sp3. correct?
alex.
Hi Alex,
Based on the feedback we got at the recent CEDIA show from our dealers I think we are going to offer 2 models instead of 3 of the SP3.
The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
The 2nd version will have the same inputs but switch Audio and Video.
james
Hi James,
Do you mean the audio version will have 8 HDMI ins, 2 HDMI outs and no other video connectors at all (This is exactly what I want :) ). The inputs and outputs from CEDIA all look good except I would like Ilink/Firewire. I think modular radio setup or none at all would be best (Especially since international markets can have very differnet radio requirements).
-
James,
Bryston will offer at least two instead of three versions of the sp3. correct?
alex.
Hi Alex,
Based on the feedback we got at the recent CEDIA show from our dealers I think we are going to offer 2 models instead of 3 of the SP3.
The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
The 2nd version will have the same inputs but switch Audio and Video.
james
Hi James,
Do you mean the audio version will have 8 HDMI ins, 2 HDMI outs and no other video connectors at all (This is exactly what I want :) ). The inputs and outputs from CEDIA all look good except I would like Ilink/Firewire. I think modular radio setup or none at all would be best (Especially since international markets can have very differnet radio requirements).
Hi Krobar,
Correct 8 HDMI 'audio in. and 2 out no video. We are not planing on any firewire inputs. No radio setup.
james
-
Hi James,
Thanks for clarifying.
Another vote for DSD over HDMI here (Especially since ILink is not included - ILink implementations all had native DSD support). Are the DACs DSD capable?
Another thing that would be worth considering is HDMI CEC flow rate control. Essentially this is an open standard method to reduce jitter, Sony call it HATS, Pioneer call it PQLS but they all use the same optional part of the CEC subspec. Whilst it only applies to sources without video I think that will apply to a large part of Bryston's audience.
Oh and whilst we are on the subject of audio connectivity; how about AC3-RF :icon_surprised: (I still use this)
Hi James,
Un-answered questions :
- what about DSD decoding thru HDMI in ?
- i believe you know the ANTHEM D2 upgrade... will you use the new VXP cheap as well (VXP9452) ?
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS82958+14-Apr-2008+BW20080414
MOZ
Hi Moz,
We have not discussed the option of DSD decoding at this point.
james
-
HI Krobar,
Yes we are looking at HDMI jitter issues - thanks for the feedback.
james
-
The fourth suggestion involves the HDMI outputs.
I really wish that Bryston could make each output simultaneously
active, with independent input selection for each output.
The second output would be totally passive, require absolutely no processing
within the SP3. It would simply pass the audio and video feed present at its selected
input. Further, it would require the input to be from one of the SP3's HDMI
inputs. This would relieve the SP3 from any requirement for A/D conversion and/or
scaling from analog sources (either audio or video).
The second output could go directly to a second HDTV, another pre/pro or an AVR
in a second room. With an RF capable remote control, this would save SP3 owners
the cost of duplicating source components to outfit two rooms.
Steven
I take it that the above is basically "Zone 2 Outputs". With that in mind I really hope
the SP 3 will address the issue. Since I own an older Lexicon the Zone 2 capabilities
are a deal breaker for me.
Regards
-
I was just looking at the mockup pictures for the SP3.
Will the audio only version share the same chassis?
I assume the analogue video connections will not be present on the Audio only / switcher version?
Any chance you could add a few more triggers? (The mockup looks a tad skimpy in this area)
Zone 2 Balanced Stereo Output?
-
I was just looking at the mockup pictures for the SP3.
Will the audio only version share the same chassis?
I assume the analogue video connections will not be present on the Audio only / switcher version?
Any chance you could add a few more triggers? (The mockup looks a tad skimpy in this area)
Zone 2 Balanced Stereo Output?
Hi,
Correct the video connects will not be on the Audio Only version and we are using the same chassis.
Our amplifiers have triggers 'in and out' on the rear panel so you do not need a lot of triggers on the back of the SP3 as you can simply 'daisy-chain' from one amp to the next.
james
-
Its input assignable triggers I'm interested in. :) My current setup uses 2 input assigned triggers as well as a trigger for Zone A and a trigger for Zone B. Is there going to be Zone 2 or even better zone 2 and 3 support?
-
Its input assignable triggers I'm interested in. :) My current setup uses 2 input assigned triggers as well as a trigger for Zone A and a trigger for Zone B. Is there going to be Zone 2 or even better zone 2 and 3 support?
Not sure on that one - will see what engineering has to say.
I guess one of the things I should probably make clear to everyone though is that our approach to the SP3 is one of Audio Quality - first and foremost. So there may be additional features that people would like to see which we will not address in our product. I realize that given this straight forward design concept we may loose some customers.
james
-
Ok, thanks for asking.
Back to an earlier question asked by myself and others..... Assuming Bryston use the CS4398 DACs in the SP3 then these DACs do have DSD support (But of course the design has to "wire these in"):
http://pdf.chinaicmart.com/CS4/CS4398.pdf
-
Ok, thanks for asking.
Back to an earlier question asked by myself and others..... Assuming Bryston use the CS4398 DACs in the SP3 then these DACs do have DSD support (But of course the design has to "wire these in"):
http://pdf.chinaicmart.com/CS4/CS4398.pdf
Hi,
Yes we will be looking at DSD support to see what we can do.
james
-
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11217/X3_back_cropped.jpg
Three rack-spaces, top rack-space reserved for OPTIONAL video board
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232– 2 inputs, Ethernet – 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic – 1 Input, Headphone –1 Stereo Input, 12 volt Triggers (1-In - 3 Out)
Digital Inputs – 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In – 1 Video Out
2- S Video In – 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In – 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In – 2 HDMI Out
Hi James,
First question: Will the S/P-DIF Digital out of the SP-3 give out the Dolby Digital or DTS core that is embedded in the Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio HD streams when a Dolby TrueHD or a DTS Master Audio stream is fed to the HDMI inputs of the SP-3? If yes, will it be in sync with the decoded HD from the analog outs?
Background of my question: The (Canada made) D-Box motion simulation system currently depends on the standard Dolby Digital or DTS stream (even on a Blu-Ray) to synchronize the motion with the movie. Some Blu-Ray Players - like my DVD-3800BDCI - supply HD-Sound through HDMI and standard DD or DTS through S/P-DIF in parallel, so it is technically feasible.
My current HD-Codec-capable Pre/Pro from Onkyo has a considerable delay in its audio/video processing, which means that I run into sync problems between the decoded (HD-)sound and the video (which are in sync) on one hand and the digital S/P-DIF from the Blu-Ray player on the other hand.
Therefore the second question: Will the SP-3 have any (fixed) delay in its processing of audio/video? The Onkyo unit even has a delay if an analog source is selected. The delay is easily recognized when a FM program is heard through the Onkyo Pre/Pro and a standard analog amplifier chain in parallel.
And a third question: Will the trade-in-program for the SP-2 to SP-3 be limited to Canadian and US customers or will it be applicable globally?
Thanks!
Markus
-
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11217/X3_back_cropped.jpg
Three rack-spaces, top rack-space reserved for OPTIONAL video board
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232– 2 inputs, Ethernet – 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic – 1 Input, Headphone –1 Stereo Input, 12 volt Triggers (1-In - 3 Out)
Digital Inputs – 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In – 1 Video Out
2- S Video In – 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In – 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In – 2 HDMI Out
Hi James,
First question: Will the S/P-DIF Digital out of the SP-3 give out the Dolby Digital or DTS core that is embedded in the Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio HD streams when a Dolby TrueHD or a DTS Master Audio stream is fed to the HDMI inputs of the SP-3? If yes, will it be in sync with the decoded HD from the analog outs?
Background of my question: The (Canada made) D-Box motion simulation system currently depends on the standard Dolby Digital or DTS stream (even on a Blu-Ray) to synchronize the motion with the movie. Some Blu-Ray Players - like my DVD-3800BDCI - supply HD-Sound through HDMI and standard DD or DTS through S/P-DIF in parallel, so it is technically feasible.
My current HD-Codec-capable Pre/Pro from Onkyo has a considerable delay in its audio/video processing, which means that I run into sync problems between the decoded (HD-)sound and the video (which are in sync) on one hand and the digital S/P-DIF from the Blu-Ray player on the other hand.
Therefore the second question: Will the SP-3 have any (fixed) delay in its processing of audio/video? The Onkyo unit even has a delay if an analog source is selected. The delay is easily recognized when a FM program is heard through the Onkyo Pre/Pro and a standard analog amplifier chain in parallel.
And a third question: Will the trade-in-program for the SP-2 to SP-3 be limited to Canadian and US customers or will it be applicable globally?
Thanks!
Markus
Hi Markus,
Gee I do not have answers at this point regarding your questions. They are certainly options we will be looking at but currently we are concentrating on getting the ANALOG 'in an out circuit's' optimized in the SP3 and then we will install the Digital circuit boards and see what features and performance we can ring from the new Digital HD formats.
As I have said earlier we are really focused on optimizing the AUDIO performance of the SP3 (both analog and digital) so there may be features and options we can not implement initially but will look at as we move along. The plan is to try and get the 'AUDIO' only version of the SP3 out first - then follow up with the 'Audio/Video' version and then look at the options and features we can add as we move forward.
Any trade-in program will be world wide.
james
-
hi james, when i saw the photo of the sp3 i was very disappointed. i had expected a larger version of the sp2, larger display etc.. i love the sp2 faceplate, the look of the sp2 buttons with leds above them in the square cutout along the faceplate. i know all things must change.i guess my question is why such a drastic change. i cant speak for anyone else ,but i really like the existing bryston look.when i look at the sp3 photos my eyes are drawn to the groove in the middle then i look up and down like its 2 separate components instead of one solid faceplate, maybe its just me..... also i could not tell if the sp3 had the leds in the middle of the buttons ,but as i said i like the sp2 style buttons and overall faceplate ,,,, and please use green instead of blue for display etc.. this of course is my opinion but i think green is easier to read and easier on the eyes ,and as someone else pointed out it matches our amps. thx, mc.
I've just been examining a fuzzy photo of the proposed SP 3, and I'd like to point out that the design is a significant departure from all of Brystons other "controller" products. It looks like it's made to match the power amps. This is different from all of Bryston's other controller products like the B100 or their preamps, DAC's, etc.
The biggest thing I'd like to point out is this processor doesn't appear to have any LED's. I own an SP 1.7, and I rely heavily on the LED's to tell me the status of my Processor. Is this the same for you? If the SP 3 operates similarly to the 1.7, not having any LED indicators would be a disaster. I can only imagin having to dig through menus on that little screen, or having to pay thousands extra for a video circuit so you could get an on screen display. Yet that would still not give you the "instant" info an LED provides. I love my SP 1.7, but no LED's on a processor with a similar human engineering approach would be a deal breaker for me.
I just looked at all the other controller devices currently being made by Bryston on their website, and they do feature LED's above the buttons.
James, are the LED's in the buttons themselves? The fuzzy pic indicates some kind of "ridge" in the buttons, but I can't make out anything else besides that.
In the end, I'd have to agree with martyc that I do like the other look better than the amp matching design.
Sorry for the somewhat negative post, but I am concerned.
Regards,
Bill
-
11. Two stereo balanced in (e.g., for BCD-1 CD player and for CD/SACD from multiformat player)
Are the analog inputs unbalanced only? Or balanced as well? I'd want 5.1 analog balanced and unbalanced bypass in if possible with the SP3 for CD/SACD Multichannel Player.
-
11. Two stereo balanced in (e.g., for BCD-1 CD player and for CD/SACD from multiformat player)
Are the analog inputs unbalanced only? Or balanced as well? I'd want 5.1 analog balanced and unbalanced bypass in if possible with the SP3 for CD/SACD Multichannel Player.
There are 2 sets of Stereo XLR Balanced inputs and one set of 7.1 Balanced Outputs. The 7.1 inputs will be through HDMI (not balanced XLR) and one set of 7.1 Analog RCA inputs.
james
-
So James... did you get a chance to try a prototype of the SP3 ???
-
So James... did you get a chance to try a prototype of the SP3 ???
Hi Moz,
No - not yet it is still in engineering being developed.
james
-
Any news on the SP3? Has anything to do with DSD or CEC flow control been decided? (These I'm guessing are early signal routing and dsp / digital input design decisions)
-
Any news on the SP3? Has anything to do with DSD or CEC flow control been decided? (These I'm guessing are early signal routing and dsp / digital input design decisions)
Hi Krobar,
We are still working on the Power Supply design and the Analog layout so we have not started to address the Digital side yet.
james
-
Any news on the SP3? Has anything to do with DSD or CEC flow control been decided? (These I'm guessing are early signal routing and dsp / digital input design decisions)
With CES coming up in January, I'm sure we'll get an update then. Looking forward to more info on the unit here as well !
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James,
Will the Sp3 have the same D/A processing as the BDA-1? with upsampling etc?. I'd like to get a BDA-1 but I would likely hold on that to trade my SP1.7 to SP3 if the D/A processing is equivelent to the BDA-1. Thanks, Pete
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Hi Pete,
Good question and I will confirm with engineering but I am pretty sure the SP3 will not have the same digital stage as the BDA-1. The reason is that the SP3 is designed as a Surround Processor so the Digital stage is designed around the new digital HD Surround mulltichannel formats as the priority and stereo listening is a downmix.
The BDA-1 on the other hand is optimized for a stereo digital PCM bitstream.
james
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We are still working on the Power Supply design and the Analog layout so we have not started to address the Digital side yet.
James,
despite the digital side not being the priority right now, I was wonderig whether you have any idea which direction Bryston might be going regarding the digital section. The digital section for the SP-2 - if I am not mistaken - was the Digital Audio Engine DAE-5 provided by Momentum Data Systems (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5 (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5)).
Will Bryston design its own digital section for the SP-3, procure it from an external source or have it developed externally? If Bryston hasn't even started thinking about the design and wants to develop the board itself... we might be looking at an availability of the SP-3 at the CES... in the year 2011 or even later. Or is the DAE-6D from MDS an option? :wink:
The same question applies for the planned HDMI processing board.
Sorry for being that inquisitive... 8)
Cheers!
Markus
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We are still working on the Power Supply design and the Analog layout so we have not started to address the Digital side yet.
James,
despite the digital side not being the priority right now, I was wonderig whether you have any idea which direction Bryston might be going regarding the digital section. The digital section for the SP-2 - if I am not mistaken - was the Digital Audio Engine DAE-5 provided by Momentum Data Systems (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5 (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5)).
Will Bryston design its own digital section for the SP-3, procure it from an external source or have it developed externally? If Bryston hasn't even started thinking about the design and wants to develop the board itself... we might be looking at an availability of the SP-3 at the CES... in the year 2011 or even later. :wink:
The same question applies for the planned HDMI processing board.
Sorry for being that inquisitive... 8)
Cheers!
Markus
Hi Markus,
Yes we will be using modified boards from MDS for the digital section.
james
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Will there be room EQ calibration in the SP3?
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Will there be room EQ calibration in the SP3?
Hi Pete,
The processor will do it so we will look at that as we go along. We may limit it to 200Hz and below to maintain maximum fidelity.
james
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Will there be room EQ calibration in the SP3?
Hi Pete,
The processor will do it so we will look at that as we go along. We may limit it to 200Hz and below to maintain maximum fidelity.
james
I assume the processor will let you switch the EQ in and out for comparison and to maximize the fidelity.
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We are still working on the Power Supply design and the Analog layout so we have not started to address the Digital side yet.
James,
despite the digital side not being the priority right now, I was wonderig whether you have any idea which direction Bryston might be going regarding the digital section. The digital section for the SP-2 - if I am not mistaken - was the Digital Audio Engine DAE-5 provided by Momentum Data Systems (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5 (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5)).
Will Bryston design its own digital section for the SP-3, procure it from an external source or have it developed externally? If Bryston hasn't even started thinking about the design and wants to develop the board itself... we might be looking at an availability of the SP-3 at the CES... in the year 2011 or even later. Or is the DAE-6D from MDS an option? :wink:
The same question applies for the planned HDMI processing board.
Sorry for being that inquisitive... 8)
Cheers!
Markus
If Bryston is using the MDS board it would have to be the 6D since the 5 doesn't support the new Blu-Ray audio formats (Dolby True HD, DTS Master Audio, etc.)
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Will there be room EQ calibration in the SP3?
Hi Pete,
The processor will do it so we will look at that as we go along. We may limit it to 200Hz and below to maintain maximum fidelity.
james
Hi James,
I assume that the processor (DAE-6D ?) gives you the choice of AUDYDSSEY or TRINNOV EQ, did you decide yet witch one you'll choose ?
MOZ
:thumb: get the Trinnov...
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Will there be room EQ calibration in the SP3?
Hi Pete,
The processor will do it so we will look at that as we go along. We may limit it to 200Hz and below to maintain maximum fidelity.
james
Hi James,
I assume that the processor (DAE-6D ?) gives you the choice of AUDYDSSEY or TRINNOV EQ, did you decide yet witch one you'll choose ?
MOZ
:thumb: get the Trinnov...
Hi MOZ
We are still discussing that very issue.
Dolby Volume has also entered the arena.
james
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:thumb: get the Trinnov...
Hi MOZ,
have you ever heard the Trinnov EQ room equalization?
Having a look at their website http://www.trinnov-audio.com (http://www.trinnov-audio.com), they seem to have focused on the professional and studio market so far - which would, of course, perfectly fit into Bryston's profile and history... Additionally, Trinnov EQ is - at least for now - more exclusive, compared to Audyssey, which is available in a number of mainstream brands.
Maybe Audyssey and Trinnov EQ can both be activated on a single or two separate prototype SP-3(s) so that Bryston can do some serious listening tests for which EQ solution sounds best in the SP-3 environment. Another question is, whether one of these EQ solutions can easily be stripped down to the frequency area below 200Hz, as James suggested. The TI DA-710 runs at 300MHz. If it's clock is being reduced to 225MHz, as James noted as an option earlier in this thread, the question is, whether there is still enough processing power for complex room EQ operations.
In the end, the sound quality is most important. If there is an unusual means neccessary for acchieving it (at least for Bryston), it still should be used. A few years back, I would have refused to have any Class-D amplifier or any equalization applied in my system. Since I have experienced the incredible improvements in bass performance that I acchieved with my Class-D driven, servo-controlled and heavily equalized Velodyne DD-15 subwoofer, I am open for digital room correction. The Onkyo PR-SC885P that I am using in my home theater right now has an integrated Audyssey-EQ and I have to admit that it is doing a very good job. I haven't done a direct A/B comparison to my SP-2 PRO yet, but I have the feeling that the Audyssey room equalization works quite well. Now, if Trinnov EQ worked even better, combined with the inherently superior Bryston analog technology - the SP-3 could be a killer product... 8)
Let's see what Bryston is coming up with, regarding the EQ question.
Cheers!
Markus
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Another thing that came to my mind regarding a SP-3 is the question about a true 7.1 analog pass through. Currently the multi channel pass through on the SP-1.7 and SP-2 runs through the digital section. Only the 2 channel bypass uses the analog ALPS potentiometer. Would an 8 channel ALPS poti be an option? Should the SP-3 have an "old fashioned" potentiometer or a discrete resistor based electronic volume control, just like a B-100 or BP-16?
James,
has the decision been made for the type of volume control on the SP-3? Will it be a two or eight channel (alps) potentiometer or the type of volume control the B100/BP16 use? Will it be different, depending on the signal being analog, digital, stereo or multichannel?
What about the DACs? Will it be the same Cirrus Logic chip used in the SP-2 and/or BDA-1? MDS don't list the DAC type in their product leaflet for the DAE-6D, which, as I understand, might be a basis for the SP-3 digital board.
Sherwood seems to be the first consumer electronics licensee for the Trinnov Optimizer. They offer a receiver with it: http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_r972_trinnov.html (http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_r972_trinnov.html) They also list some more details about the solution and even offer some screenshots with a before/after equalization. One interesting thing about the Trinnov Optimizer is the microphone they use. In contrast to Audyssey, where you have a mono microphone that is positioned where your head would be when listening and that is directed up, the Trinnov microphone seems to have more channels for the system to take the direction into account and 'correct' speaker placement issues. It seems that, among other things, the system kind of redistributes the signals to the speaker array available, almost 'wherever the speakers might be placed'... that's spooky, if you ask me... :wink:
Anyway, Trinnov's website sports a number of mostly European (despite sounding Russian, Trinnov seems to be a French company) well-known studios, most of them broadcast, that are using their professional Optimizer product, that - according to Sherwood - is somewhere in the US$13k to US$17K range.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi James,
Do you have a more precise view of when the SP3 should be ready, now ?
As for the Trinnov EQ, yes it's a french one and it's a very evoluted one.
It's used by professionnal studios here in France.
I guess it would be a VERY good point for Bryston to consider this one (and also try it before of course).
It would permit them to make a difference with the other competitors who mostly have the Audyssey (Denon, Onkyo aso)...
Just my point !
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I continue to enjoy my SP1.7, but I'm ready to trade it in for the SP3.0. I'm patiently waiting for trade in details and the roll out date, Pete
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HI All,
We are going to show the current prototype in Vegas but we are still many months away from a product.
james
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Hi All,
Just a heads up on the SP3.
Sadly there are many issues that still have to be sorted out, licencing issues, MDS digital boards, chip availability etc. So it looks like we are still at least 6 months away from the Audio only version of the SP3.
My apology for the delays but I do not want to hold anyone up if you are considering getting into the new HD audio formats in the near future.
james
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Hi All,
Just a heads up on the SP3.
Sadly there are many issues that still have to be sorted out, licencing issues, MDS digital boards, chip availability etc. So it looks like we are still at least 6 months away from the Audio only version of the SP3.
My apology for the delays but I do not want to hold anyone up if you are considering getting into the new HD audio formats in the near future.
james
James, is it anticipated the USB input of the unit will be on the rear or the front? thanks
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I think the current Bryston SP2 is better than the $600 Marantz SR-8500 receiver (http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1233248801&/Marantz-SR-8500-AV-Surround-Re). :scratch:
Right now, I have to compromise. Since no one makes a pre/pro that lets me setup both 5.1 and 7.1 properly, I still haven't upgraded my Marantz SR-8500 receiver.
Steven
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Hi All,
Just a heads up on the SP3.
Sadly there are many issues that still have to be sorted out, licencing issues, MDS digital boards, chip availability etc. So it looks like we are still at least 6 months away from the Audio only version of the SP3.
My apology for the delays but I do not want to hold anyone up if you are considering getting into the new HD audio formats in the near future.
james
James, is it anticipated the USB input of the unit will be on the rear or the front? thanks
Hi Phil,
The rear.
james
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Hi All,
Just a heads up on the SP3.
Sadly there are many issues that still have to be sorted out, licencing issues, MDS digital boards, chip availability etc. So it looks like we are still at least 6 months away from the Audio only version of the SP3.
My apology for the delays but I do not want to hold anyone up if you are considering getting into the new HD audio formats in the near future.
james
always appreciate the direct honesty when it comes to product planning and timing james. it's just another trait that sets both Bryston and yourself apart from your competitors. good luck with the SP3.0, and i'll keep watching the site for updates.
david
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James, has a final decision been made on whether there will be a audio only SP2 to SP3 upgrade possible? as opposed to swapping the units.
Thanks
Paul
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James, has a final decision been made on whether there will be a audio only SP2 to SP3 upgrade possible? as opposed to swapping the units.
Thanks
Paul
Hi Paul,
No firm desicion yet but it looks like too many changes for an upgrade to previous models will be possible given all the changes.
james
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Hi All,
Just a heads up on the SP3.
Sadly there are many issues that still have to be sorted out, licencing issues, MDS digital boards, chip availability etc. So it looks like we are still at least 6 months away from the Audio only version of the SP3.
My apology for the delays but I do not want to hold anyone up if you are considering getting into the new HD audio formats in the near future.
james
Looks like your competitor who has just shipped their latest pre-pro got lots of bug problems, yet also raised MSRP by another $500! :duh:
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I was one of the very first to get a SP 1.7 when they came out, serial number 0000000067....It had no bugs, and still serves its duties admirably...So I'd suggest to TAKE YOUR TIME AND DO IT RIGHT. I would rather wait for a quality product any day, than a bug ridden quickly produced box...Ok I will shut up now :icon_lol:....Pete
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP3 Prototype Surround Processor
August 15th, 2008
Please see below pictures of the new Bryston SP3 prototype surround processor that we will be displaying at the CEDIA Show in Denver next month.
Features:
Version 1 - one HDMI ‘IN’ --- one HDMI ‘OUT’
Version 2 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Switching
Version 3 - eight HDMI ‘IN’ --- two ‘OUT’ with audio Processing and Video Processing
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11217/X3_Front_cropped.jpg
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11217/X3_back_cropped.jpg
Three rack-spaces, top rack-space reserved for OPTIONAL video board
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232– 2 inputs, Ethernet – 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic – 1 Input, Headphone –1 Stereo Input, 12 volt Triggers (1-In - 3 Out)
Digital Inputs – 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In – 1 Video Out
2- S Video In – 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In – 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In – 2 HDMI Out
Are the photos of the SP3 prototype no longer available?
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Hi,
We are changing the cosmetics based on dealer feedback - it is subtle. The problem is this has turned out to be much more of a design project than we originally thought and we are still a long way from a working system.
james
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Thanks for the explanation James.
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Hi James,
any news, tit bits on SP3? It has been a while since last discussed.. thx.
Cm..
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Hi James,
any news, tit bits on SP3? It has been a while since last discussed.. thx.
Cm..
Hi CM,
Working on the Analog stages only at this point so we are still along ways off.
james
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My apologies if this has already been asked - this thread is getting too long to review every post in it. :oops:
James, have there been any decisions about headphone support on the SP-3? What would be too cool for words would be if you could license the Smyth Virtual Surround process. Failing that, even the ability to produce Dolby Headphone output would be very welcome. Dolby Headphone is, I believe, part of the standard code library for the Aureus chip, so I can't imagine it would be that hard to implement. Adding a good quality headphone amplification stage would obviously be much more expensive, but it would be nice if you could cater for those of us who use external headphone amps and provide a stereo Dolby Headphone output via RCA. That wouldn't add much (if anything) to the hardware cost.
On another subject, I noticed this comment higher up the thread which went unchallenged: The TI DA-710 runs at 300MHz. If it's clock is being reduced to 225MHz, as James noted as an option earlier in this thread, the question is, whether there is still enough processing power for complex room EQ operations.
I was under the impression that the SP3 was going to use the same DSP as the SP2, which is the DA-610, not the DA-710. Is that not correct? Assuming it is the 610, I doubt it will be able to do anything requiring much processing power: the chip is about 8 years old, now.
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My apologies if this has already been asked - this thread is getting too long to review every post in it. :oops:
James, have there been any decisions about headphone support on the SP-3? What would be too cool for words would be if you could license the Smyth Virtual Surround process. Failing that, even the ability to produce Dolby Headphone output would be very welcome. Dolby Headphone is, I believe, part of the standard code library for the Aureus chip, so I can't imagine it would be that hard to implement. Adding a good quality headphone amplification stage would obviously be much more expensive, but it would be nice if you could cater for those of us who use external headphone amps and provide a stereo Dolby Headphone output via RCA.
Hi Nicolasb,
It is something we can certainly look at but at this point we are simply consentrating on getting the Anaolg section worked out. There are a lot of Class A discrete circuits needed so layout is easier said than done.
We wiill certainly look at the options available to us once we get into the digital side of the SP3.
james
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Hi Alex,
Based on the feedback we got at the recent CEDIA show from our dealers I think we are going to offer 2 models instead of 3 of the SP3.
The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
The 2nd version will have the same inputs but switch Audio and Video.
james
Hi James,
Sorry i am a little confused
Initially you said version 2 would switch video, and version 3 would also do video processing.
So are you saying now that version 1 as it was but now with more hdmi connections version 2 is as above and there is now no version 3 with video processing.
Or are you saying version 1 has the extra hdmi's and there is now no equivalent of version 2 just the version 3 model with video switching and processing?
Also on a version that is audio only even though it wont switch video will it pass through a video signal at all, as if not then if you have a source component with only one hdmi out you would then have to put a splitter in the signal path so you could route the audio to the sp3 and the video to your display device?
Thanks
Richard
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Hi Richard,
Correct the 'Audio only' version will'be what was originally version 2 - so multiple HDMI in and 2 HDMI out.
Version 3 stays as is and willoffer video switching and processing.
Not sure on your passthrough for video question but I will ask engineering - I assume the answer is yes that video can be passed through.
james
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You mentioned that the digital circuits will not be the same quality as the bcd-1...Where do you think the analog pass-through will fall relative to your stereo pre-amps? A hi-res music server will definately be part of my future. However, my living room has to share HT and 2-channel duty. I would love to optimize both...
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Hi Richard,
Correct the 'Audio only' version will'be what was originally version 2 - so multiple HDMI in and 2 HDMI out.
Version 3 stays as is and willoffer video switching and processing.
Not sure on your passthrough for video question but I will ask engineering - I assume the answer is yes that video can be passed through.
james
Hi James,
Thanks for the reply.
So is there a particular reason that you have taken away the video switching on the version 2 as that seemed a good compromise video wise. So its a shame it now wont.
Be good to know from engineering how the pass through would work, as if it is as you say and you can, would that mean one of the 8 inputs would be video/audio in which would pass through to the two outputs and the others would therefore be just audio in and a blank video out if you selected them...So therefore if i have multiple sources i would now have to switch them through an external hdmi switch which would then have a single feed to the sp3 and the passthrough output would go to the display?
Richard
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Hi Richard,
Correct the 'Audio only' version will'be what was originally version 2 - so multiple HDMI in and 2 HDMI out.
Version 3 stays as is and willoffer video switching and processing.
Not sure on your passthrough for video question but I will ask engineering - I assume the answer is yes that video can be passed through.
james
Hi James,
Thanks for the reply.
So is there a particular reason that you have taken away the video switching on the version 2 as that seemed a good compromise video wise. So its a shame it now wont.
Be good to know from engineering how the pass through would work, as if it is as you say and you can, would that mean one of the 8 inputs would be video/audio in which would pass through to the two outputs and the others would therefore be just audio in and a blank video out if you selected them...So therefore if i have multiple sources i would now have to switch them through an external hdmi switch which would then have a single feed to the sp3 and the passthrough output would go to the display?
Richard
Hi Richard,
At this point we have not looked in detail at the video side so I think I will hold comment until I have a better idea from engineering what is doable. Our first priority is the AUDIO quality so video is something we are looking at only as a convenience factor.
james
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Hi Richard,
At this point we have not looked in detail at the video side so I think I will hold comment until I have a better idea from engineering what is doable. Our first priority is the AUDIO quality so video is something we are looking at only as a convenience factor.
james
Hi James,
For me too Audio quality is the most important thing especially 2 channel Music.
My personal opinion (for what its worth) is that before Hi-def HDMI audio, audio sources were separate from the video source so you could easily route the Audio signal separate from the video signal as they were always on two different cables and generally display devices have many video inputs. So a processor did not need to handle video at all.
The problem In my view as I see it now is that because with a HDMI connection the Audio and Video are now together on the same cable so they have to be split by the processor so in my mind if a processor has more than 1 hdmi input it should be able to video switch those inputs as if it does not you would have to put a hdmi splitter on every source component and feed one to the display device and one to the Audio Processor.
I am fairly sure that all other processors/amps offer video switching if they have more than one hdmi input or video pass through if they only have one input for this reason.
My knowledge of hdmi is limited so just really thinking on the practical side so I may be wrong or missed something here.
I think though if the Audio only SP3 did not have video switching it would limit its appeal and would be hard to fit into peoples existing setup if they wanted to feed it sound via hdmi.
Your view on this would be appreciated.
Sorry not trying to be awkward just trying to work out how i am going to use the SP3.
Thanks
Richard
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so in my mind if a processor has more than 1 hdmi input it should be able to video switch those inputs as if it does not you would have to put a hdmi splitter on every source component and feed one to the display device and one to the Audio Processor
I think everyone should assume that the lower version of the SP3 will switch the video, and the higher version will switch and process the video (unless Bryston has lost its mind - which I don't think is the case). You can't have 8 in and 2 out without switching.
brucek
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so in my mind if a processor has more than 1 hdmi input it should be able to video switch those inputs as if it does not you would have to put a hdmi splitter on every source component and feed one to the display device and one to the Audio Processor
I think everyone should assume that the lower version of the SP3 will switch the video, and the higher version will switch and process the video (unless Bryston has lost its mind - which I don't think is the case). You can't have 8 in and 2 out without switching.
brucek
Thats what i assumed Initially, but I was just picking up on what James had said since the CEDIA show.
Richard.
Hi Alex,
Based on the feedback we got at the recent CEDIA show from our dealers I think we are going to offer 2 models instead of 3 of the SP3.
The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
The 2nd version will have the same inputs but switch Audio and Video.
james
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The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
And where does Bryston propose we plug the OUT into, without switching the video?
You can see that it's so silly that we must assume it's not correct.
I'm sure it's meant to say: The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and process Audio only. The video would be switched through unprocessed.
brucek
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The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and switch Audio only.
And where does Bryston propose we plug the OUT into, without switching the video?
You can see that it's so silly that we must assume it's not correct.
I'm sure it's meant to say: The Audio Version will have 8 HDMI in and 2 OUT and process Audio only.
brucek
Very good point and i am sure you are correct...well i really hope you are.
Richard
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Hi James,
I begin by saying I am a proud owner of 4 Bryston products and look forward to the SP 3.0.
I have some questions related to the upcoming SP 3.0:
1) Why only 4 coaxial digital inputs? I own a SP 2.0 and always found 4 digital inputs -coaxial were not enough.
2) Why increase to 4 digital inputs - optical on the SP 3.0? I believe the coaxial is a higher performer for audio re-production...
3) USB port, I believe it will be 2.0 version? There is 3.0 version coming, so will this be a consideration?
4) Ethernet connection, will it be able to handle Denon Link and multiple sources tied together?
5) Can the SP 3.0 be able to use front and rear speakers (total of 4) in analog bypass mode without digital processing? In other words you would have a 4 channel system with left and right in front and rear...
6) Why optical digital output instead of an coaxial digital output?
7) Light indicator on the volume knob? I think this feature would be great to provide a quick visual of the volume level from a distance
8) SP 3.0 video explanation:
Version 1) no video
Version 2) video switching, can you still switch video sources when is off?
Version 3) video switching and processing, convert video signals to 1080 p?
9) With the addition of video section, will the unit run warm and require a fan for cooling?
10) A question on Super Audio specification:
2 channel - 192K/24 bit YES or No
6 channel - 96k/24 bit Yes or No
11) On present SP 2.0 unit, the digital input source is limited to 96k/24bit processing - YES or NO?
12) Will the display remain the same as SP 2.0, green? I hope so, because it matches my other components...
13) Ipod integration - any thoughts on taking the digital signal and processing through SP 3.0 DAC for the best audio re-production?
14) With the new SP 3.0, will Bryston use customers for beta testing?
Regards,
Luigi
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Luigi, welcome to the forum. Optical inputs are good as some devices like my Samsung HD Tuner only have an optical out. For Dolby Digital sound, he signal is transmitted in packets much like internet protocol and it is either there or not there. A different story for PCM transmission though. My wishlist would be DSD decoding. I just got a Marantz 6300 for the bedroom (and have a Samsung 2500 Blu-Ray player hooked to it along with an Oppo 980) and the DSD direct is a nice feature.
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Also, USB 3.0 really won't be widely available until next year. There needs to be operating system software to support it. It's possible there may be some things that have USB 3.0 but it will not likely be until the second half of the year. Here are some FAQ:
http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html
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Hi all,
any candidate expected release date?
Thanks
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Hi all,
any candidate expected release date?
Thanks
Hi Luca,
We are still a long ways off.
james
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Hi all,
any candidate expected release date?
Thanks
Hi Luca,
We are still a long ways off.
james
Hi James, lookin at your thumbnail pic with the quads. arent u worried about stuff following off that shelf and landing on your component below?
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Hi all,
any candidate expected release date?
Thanks
Hi Luca,
We are still a long ways off.
james
Hi James, lookin at your thumbnail pic with the quads. arent u worried about stuff following off that shelf and landing on your component below?
No the picture does not show that the shelf and wall behind are a ways back so anything falling would land behind the gear. Plus the Quads won't play loud enough to shake the room.
james
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Yah but the pmc's in the other room will :rock:...lol... sorry for the intrusion.
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Yah but the pmc's in the other room will :rock:...lol... sorry for the intrusion.
Intrusion?
james
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Yah but the pmc's in the other room will :rock:...lol... sorry for the intrusion.
Intrusion?
james
Just pointing out stuff in your home, I should mind my own business.
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James, my three lonely Bryston amps are awaiting anxiously the arrival of the SP3.
As noted in my post of 9-20-2008, there are several features required to make the SP3 competitive with products from Anthem, Classé, Cary, Krell, Lexicon, and other high-end manufacturers.
There are some key features I hope you will include in the SP3 (asterisks indicate essentials):
Design
1. Large, readable front panel display (with user-programmable input names), twice the size as prototype; green color to match other Bryston products; OSD display
2. Modular construction for upgradability
3. Backlit remote with differently shaped buttons for different functions (unlike the BCD-1) and with direct: input switching, mute control, volume, and DVD/CD transport, audio format, and subtitle controls
4. *Firmware upgrades: via USB, Ethernet, or CD/DVD media (perhaps WiFi capable)
5. Fully balanced, input to output, esp. when using Bryston amps (with polarity switch for each channel)
Connectivity
1. *HDMI 1.3c (or later) connections; 6-8 in, two (or more) out
2. *Dual (or better) subwoofer outputs (for L-R stereo subs and LFE)
3. *Optical and coaxial digital connectors for each digital input
4. *12V triggers for Bryston amps (perhaps RS232 for others)
5. Two stereo balanced XLR in (e.g., for BCD-1 CD player and for CD/SACD from multiformat player)
Processing
1. *Latest HD codecs, DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby True HD, the latest iterations of lossy DTS and Dolby codecs, Pro-Logic and other apt codecs (perhaps even HDCD decoding)
2. *Room correction, both auto EQ and advanced manual settings: e.g., Audyssey MultEQ XT, Audyssey Dynamic Volume and XT Pro Installer (with license included, or license available from Bryston)
Video
1. For video version: Silicon Optix Realta HQV processor or better
2. For video version: Dual HDMI outs both active (to two displays simultaneously—for Stanley Cup finals parties)
Manual & Support
1. A clear and thorough user manual (updated online), with an online update site
I realize that you've discussed some of these features in earlier posts, but it seems like a good time for an update, and I'm sure the forum participants would be eager to hear Bryston's thinking on the SP3 at this time.
Thanks for your attention,
Rich
Beethoven piano sonatas:
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James,
Can I assume that Bryston will still have a trade-in program for those of us with SP1.7's? aa
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That's the plan at this point.
james
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Would you be able to trade a sp1.7 that began life as a sp1
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Would you be able to trade a sp1.7 that began life as a sp1
Hi THX,
We are certainly going to try to come up with a program that works for everyone.
james
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Hi James,
any news on the SP-3 development front?
How is the analog section doing?
Any decisions made which features of the DAE digital video section will be offered, added or omitted?
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi James,
any news on the SP-3 development front?
How is the analog section doing?
Any decisions made which features of the DAE digital video section will be offered, added or omitted?
Cheers!
Markus
Hi Markus,
The analog section is nearing completion and we are now working on the digital section and front panel interface.
The first units will not have any video on board.
james
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Not that I need it or want or that it won't be a problem with other things but James what are your thoughts on HDMI 1.4?
http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=93
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Not that I need it or want or that it won't be a problem with other things but James what are your thoughts on HDMI 1.4?
http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=93
Hi Phil
I will have a look.
james
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James, here's a press release from Silicon Image and also for all a brief history of the HDMI versions:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/133057-silicon-image-q1-2009-earnings-call-transcript?page=3
HDMI 1.0 - 12/2002
Single-cable digital audio/video connection with a maximum bitrate of 4.9 Gbps. Supports up to 165 Megapixels/second of video (1080p @ 60 Hz or UXGA) and 8-channel/192kHz/24-bit audio.
HDMI 1.1 - 5/2004
Additional support for DVD Audio content protection
HDMI 1.2 - 8/2005
Additional support for Super Audio CDs
HDMI Type A connection available for PC sources
PC sources can use native RGB color while retaining the option to support YCbCr color.
Support for low-voltages sources
HDMI 1.3 - 6/2006
Single-cable digital audio/video connection increased to 10.2 Gbps
Increased color support, including 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit color depths (RGB or YCbCr)
Supports xvYCC color standards
Supports automatic audio syncing capability
Supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams (audio codec formats used on HD DVDs and Blu-ray Discs) for external decoding by AV receivers.
Availability of a new mini connector for devices such as camcorders.
................
Feature HDMI 1.3
Maximum Data Rate 10.2 Gb/s
Maximum Resolution 2560x1440 progressive (1440p)
Maximum Color Bit Depth 48 bits
Maximum Colors Displayed 281 Trillion
Maximum Audio Sample Frequency (2 channels) 768 kHz
192 kHz (8 streams max)"
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I heard one of the main reasons HDMI was introduced to enable Digital Rights Management. True?
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HDMI is a one-way digital signal. At one point (a few years back), I had one of the rare Samsung HD1000 DVD players which had no HDMI or DVI and upconverted via component to 720p or 1080i. I understand the DVD consortium basically ripped Samsung a new one over releasing the player here. The studios (movies or music) are concerned over copy protection. Unfortunately, one can go to lots of street corners in many cities and buy bootleg movies and music and there is no law enforcement.
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I'd guess this is some of the reason for the new spec:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Initiatives
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Hi James,
Is your SP3 still scheduled for this year or not ?
MOZ
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Hi James,
Is your SP3 still scheduled for this year or not ?
MOZ
Hi MOZ
We hope to have a working version at the CEDIA show in September.
james
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Here's an HDMI 1.4 Press Release:
"May 28, 2009 01:00 ET
HDMI Licensing, LLC Announces Features of the Upcoming HDMI Specification Version 1.4
Enhancements Include Networking, Audio Return Channel, 3D Capability, Improved Performance and New Connectors
SUNNYVALE, Calif. --(Business Wire)-- May 28, 2009 HDMI Licensing, LLC, the agent responsible for licensing the High-Definition Multimedia Interface? (HDMI?) specification, today announced the features that will be incorporated in the upcoming HDMI 1.4 specification. This latest version of the HDMI specification will, among other advancements, offer networking capabilities with Ethernet connectivity and will add an Audio Return Channel to enable upstream audio connections via the HDMI cable. The HDMI specification 1.4 will be available for download on the HDMI LLC website no later than June 30, 2009.
The HDMI 1.4 specification will offer the following enhanced functionalities:
HDMI Ethernet Channel
The HDMI 1.4 specification will add a data channel to the HDMI cable and will enable high-speed bi-directional communication. Connected devices that include this feature will be able to send and receive data via 100 Mb/sec Ethernet, making them instantly ready for any IP-based application.
The HDMI Ethernet Channel will allow an Internet-enabled HDMI device to share its Internet connection with other HDMI devices without the need for a separate Ethernet cable. The new feature will also provide the connection platform to allow HDMI-enabled devices to share content between devices.
Audio Return Channel
The new specification will add an Audio Return Channel that will reduce the number of cables required to deliver audio upstream for processing and playback. In cases where HDTVs are directly receiving audio and video content, this new Audio Return Channel allows the HDTV to send the audio stream to the A/V receiver over the HDMI cable, eliminating the need for an extra cable.
3D Over HDMI
The 1.4 version of the specification will define common 3D formats and resolutions for HDMI-enabled devices. The specification will standardize the input/output portion of the home 3D system and will specify up to dual-stream 1080p resolution.
4K x 2K Resolution Support
The new specification will enable HDMI devices to support high-definition (HD) resolutions four times beyond the resolution of 1080p. Support for 4K x 2K will allow the HDMI interface to transmit content at the same resolution as many digital theaters. Formats supported include:
3840x2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz
4096x2160 24Hz
Expanded Support For Color Spaces
HDMI technology now supports color spaces designed specifically for digital still cameras. By supporting sYCC601, Adobe RGB and AdobeYCC601, HDMI-enabled display devices will be capable of reproducing more accurate life-like colors when connected to a digital still camera.
Micro HDMI Connector
The Micro HDMI Connector is a significantly smaller 19-pin connector that supports up to 1080p resolutions for portable devices. This new connector is approximately 50% smaller than the size of the existing HDMI Mini Connector.
Automotive Connection System
The Automotive Connection System is a cabling specification designed to be used as the basis for in-vehicle HD content distribution. The HDMI 1.4 specification will provide a solution designed to meet the rigors and environmental issues commonly found in automobiles, such as heat, vibration and noise. Using the Automotive Connection System, automobile manufactures will now have a viable solution for distributing HD content within the car.
?The HDMI specification continues to add functionality as the consumer electronics and PC industries build products that enhance the consumer?s HD experience,? said Steve Venuti, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC. ?The 1.4 specification will support some of the most exciting and powerful near-term innovations such as Ethernet connectivity and 3D formats. Additionally we are going to broaden our solution by providing a smaller connector for portable devices and a connection system specified for automobiles, as we see both more and different devices adopting the HDMI technology.?
Consumers will also see new HDMI cables introduced to the market. In order to take advantage of the HDMI Ethernet Channel, consumers will need to purchase either a Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet, or a High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet. Consumers connecting an external device to an in-vehicle HDMI-enabled HD system will need the new Automotive HDMI cable. Consumers can expect to see new HDMI 1.4 cables introduced to the market when new HDMI 1.4 devices are available.
Consumers will have a choice of the following HDMI cables:
Standard HDMI Cable ? supports data rates up to 1080i/60;
High Speed HDMI Cable ? supports data rates beyond 1080p, including Deep Color and all 3D formats of the new 1.4 specification;
Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet ? includes Ethernet connectivity;
High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet ? includes Ethernet connectivity;
Automotive HDMI Cable ? allows the connection of external HDMI-enabled devices to an in-vehicle HDMI device.
The HDMI standard continues to grow in the marketplace with now over 850 adopters worldwide. The growing adoption of the HDMI specification by both consumer electronics and PC manufacturers further strengthens its position as the worldwide standard for high-definition digital connectivity. According to market research firm In-Stat, over 394 million HDMI-enabled devices are expected to ship in 2009, with an installed base of 1 billion devices. By the end of 2009 100% of digital televisions are expected to have at least one HDMI input.
The HDMI specification 1.4 will be available for download at http://www.hdmi.org no later than June 30, 2009.
About HDMI Licensing, LLC
HDMI Licensing, LLC is the agent responsible for licensing the HDMI specification, promoting the HDMI standard and providing education on the benefits of the HDMI specification to adopters, retailers and consumers. The HDMI specification was developed by Hitachi, Panasonic Corporation, Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson and Toshiba as the all-digital interface standard for the consumer electronics and personal computer markets. The HDMI specification combines uncompressed high-definition video and multi-channel audio in a single digital interface to provide crystal-clear digital quality over a single cable. HDMI Licensing, LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Silicon Image, Inc. For more information about the HDMI specification, please visit www.hdmi.org.
Forward-looking Statements
This news release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws and regulations, including, but not limited to, statements regarding the HDMI 1.4 technology and its anticipated advantages, growth, market, adoption, consumer demand, and anticipated shipments and product introductions. These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, risks associated with the claims made regarding the HDMI 1.4 technology, as well as those risks and uncertainties described from time to time in Silicon Image?s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). These risks and uncertainties could cause the actual results to differ materially from those anticipated by the forward-looking statements contained in this news release. Silicon Image assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statement.
HDMI is a registered trademark of HDMI Licensing, LLC in the United States and/or other countries. All other trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of their respective owners in the Unites States and/or other countries."
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Hi James,
What price point will the SP3.0 fall into? So I know how much to save.
--Levi
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HDMI 1.3 vs. 1.4...well, I'd rather see Bryston focus on HDMI 1.3 to make that one work flawless than waiting for the first HDMI 1.4 chips to appear and be integrated into a Digital Audio Engine.
What I dislike about all HDMI implementations I have been using myself or that I experienced on trade fairs is the switching time. When moving from one source to another, the receiver chip in the switching device needs to establish a new connection which involves negotiating the supported resolutions and the HDCP protocol. A break (blue screen) for a few seconds is the result.
I don't know what can be acchieved through software, but maybe some presets for resolutions for the HDMI inputs could help. A hardware based approach that Crestron is using employs a single receiver chip for each HDMI input. This way, the switcher can maintain a connection to all powered-up devices which avoids the time consuming connection negotiations when switching. That would be a solution that really adds value for the user. More value than HDMI 1.4, which would bring a further delay of at least 18 month...
Just my two cents on HDMI here... ;)
Cheers
Markus
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Hi James,
What price point will the SP3.0 fall into? So I know how much to save.
--Levi
Hi Levi,
Can not be exact but hoping around $10,000.
james
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:shake: :sad:.
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Wow $10K :o
I'm hoping that figure will be significantly reduced with an SP2 trade-in program!
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How much do you think you'll get for the SP2? It would still not make a dent out of $5-FIGURES. :LOL:
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Well, at 10 grand, I think that will put my customers out of range & will probably look into something around the 5 to 6 grand or so price point. Bummer! Most would not need video processing though. Although, I mostly do the furniture end and installations. Some of my customers do rely on my experience though. My friend sells Anthem pre pro's and moves quiet a few. I have not had the chance to see his new Anthem 2 yet.
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10K? Is that with or without video option? Ouch!
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10K? Is that with or without video option? Ouch!
Hopefully - with
james
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:o thanks.
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wait a minute here ,sp3 was going to be in the 6000 range now its 10,000 range.james must have hit the wrong key when typing.im going to refresh the page now, im sure it will say 6000 like before!
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wait a minute here ,sp3 was going to be in the 6000 range now its 10,000 range.james must have hit the wrong key when typing.im going to refresh the page now, im sure it will say 6000 like before!
Truthfully it is still really to early to say. What I can say though is we have decided this will be an all out assult on state of the art sound.
james
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That sounds good,an ALL OUT ASSAULT.I knew with out the video side,she'd be aound 5.So with the video side also(since she can be added later).
Doesn't sound to bad,splitting her up, and an all out assault and not take any audio prisoners,sounds fine to me.I'll be looking forward to an audition.
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wait a minute here ,sp3 was going to be in the 6000 range now its 10,000 range.james must have hit the wrong key when typing.im going to refresh the page now, im sure it will say 6000 like before!
We would all like it to be as cheap as possible and have as much trade-in value for our SP1s, SP1.7s and SP2s :green:
R&D and design takes time and money to do right. It's so hard to price items when they are not in the production stage. When universal players were being released many moon back, a particular high end company told their dealers $4-4.5k about 8 or 9 months before CES. A couple of mos. before CES it was $8k and then at CES it was announced for $11k.
I'll be happy when it is done, a trade-in value is established (although I think many here may be overly optimistic about values which I would expect to be in the lower end of the range of what used ones go for, removing the pain of selling it versus doing it on your own for a few hundred more (and being able to keep you unit until the new one is ready for shipment and minimal time without a unit will be incurred - not a concern for me as I can use secondary systems for a bit).
I think one needs to look at what one will be getting (and consider the manufacturer too!). A state-of-the-art analog preamp. A great home theater processor that probably will take a 192/24 audio stream via HDMI 1.3b. A decent DAC with even a USB input. There are always going to be new generations of things whether that is HDMI 1.4, USB 3.0, etc.
Look, I like the latest things. This is the longest I've gone eligible for a new cell phone w/o getting one. I've been been waiting 3.5 mos. and probably will wait about another 2 mos. to get what I want (HTC Touch Pro2). There are other technologies coming like a 4g network. I've been in he audio hobby a long time and I've been in stores where people keep coming in and listening to things and they come in one day with their mind finally made up and then their jaw drops when they are told the item they want is no longer being made many months. I've bought and sold so many things over 30 yrs. (since I was 9 :lol:), some of which I would like to have back. Recently, I waiting for the Oppo BDP-83 for the main system. Last Sept. I bought a PS3 for the basement system to start getting my feet wet with Blu-Ray. I then got a good deal on a Samsung 2500 which I used for a short while in the main system with the intention of migrating it to the bedroom system (at some point if I get Netflix, I can stream movies to it - Sony also has a service for the PS3.
Be patient. Be happy you'll get a trade-in of some sort. If you think it is beyond your means or what you want to spend start plan B for the next choice or wait until some more info is available if that is better for you and then go to plan B if necessary. I can tell you before Bryston went into home theater I was impatient. I sold a 4BST I had and two power packs I got at a really good deal (actually made a very small amount on the sale but wished I had them back for the bedroom system - using an Adcom 555 for the L&R channel - don't use the bedroom system tons and can live with what I have and always look what is available used, especially local) and went to another high end home theater brand that is no longer around and took more of beating than I really wanted to. When I auditioned the BCD-1, I decided I wanted the Torus RM20 but not the cash out the door for both. I waited about 18 mos. until I could get what I wanted.
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Thanks Phil. That means I have to wait couple of years then. Probably when my son finished college.
He is currently on 6th grade. :lol:
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Thanks Phil. That means I have to wait couple of years then. Probably when my son finished college.
He is currently on 6th grade. :lol:
Let's hope he does very well in school and skips a couple of grades 8)
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wait a minute here ,sp3 was going to be in the 6000 range now its 10,000 range.james must have hit the wrong key when typing.im going to refresh the page now, im sure it will say 6000 like before!
We would all like it to be as cheap as possible and have as much trade-in value for our SP1s, SP1.7s and SP2s :green:
R&D and design takes time and money to do right. It's so hard to price items when they are not in the production stage. When universal players were being released many moon back, a particular high end company told their dealers $4-4.5k about 8 or 9 months before CES. A couple of mos. before CES it was $8k and then at CES it was announced for $11k.
I'll be happy when it is done, a trade-in value is established (although I think many here may be overly optimistic about values which I would expect to be in the lower end of the range of what used ones go for, removing the pain of selling it versus doing it on your own for a few hundred more (and being able to keep you unit until the new one is ready for shipment and minimal time without a unit will be incurred - not a concern for me as I can use secondary systems for a bit).
I think one needs to look at what one will be getting (and consider the manufacturer too!). A state-of-the-art analog preamp. A great home theater processor that probably will take a 192/24 audio stream via HDMI 1.3b. A decent DAC with even a USB input. There are always going to be new generations of things whether that is HDMI 1.4, USB 3.0, etc.
Look, I like the latest things. This is the longest I've gone eligible for a new cell phone w/o getting one. I've been been waiting 3.5 mos. and probably will wait about another 2 mos. to get what I want (HTC Touch Pro2). There are other technologies coming like a 4g network. I've been in he audio hobby a long time and I've been in stores where people keep coming in and listening to things and they come in one day with their mind finally made up and then their jaw drops when they are told the item they want is no longer being made many months. I've bought and sold so many things over 30 yrs. (since I was 9 :lol:), some of which I would like to have back. Recently, I waiting for the Oppo BDP-83 for the main system. Last Sept. I bought a PS3 for the basement system to start getting my feet wet with Blu-Ray. I then got a good deal on a Samsung 2500 which I used for a short while in the main system with the intention of migrating it to the bedroom system (at some point if I get Netflix, I can stream movies to it - Sony also has a service for the PS3.
Be patient. Be happy you'll get a trade-in of some sort. If you think it is beyond your means or what you want to spend start plan B for the next choice or wait until some more info is available if that is better for you and then go to plan B if necessary. I can tell you before Bryston went into home theater I was impatient. I sold a 4BST I had and two power packs I got at a really good deal (actually made a very small amount on the sale but wished I had them back for the bedroom system - using an Adcom 555 for the L&R channel - don't use the bedroom system tons and can live with what I have and always look what is available used, especially local) and went to another high end home theater brand that is no longer around and took more of beating than I really wanted to. When I auditioned the BCD-1, I decided I wanted the Torus RM20 but not the cash out the door for both. I waited about 18 mos. until I could get what I wanted.
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with all due respect to (phil a),i have a different view. i contacted bryston before i bouhgt my sp2 about my concerns of the upcoming audio formats/hdmi etc. and asked them if i should wait.iwas told to get the sp2 enjoy it and we can upgrade to future formats.well as we know there is no upgrade to sp2. im a big boy i know things happen but... 10, 000 +4700+tax=15729.00 (minus trade in) is a bit more than 5000.00+ around 1500.00 give or take for upgrade ( 6500.00).
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I'm wondering if there a big advantage going from the dvd player to the 3.0,
to TV or projector.It makes sense to me to go DVD to directly to TV or projector.
As the 3.0 will come in 2 parts(audio/video)do we need the video side.
Perhaps I'm missing something :scratch:..
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If you like automation, then Video switching is for you. Specially if you have more than one source, universal remote or Crestron system. Perhaps a wife who likes simplicity of one-touch button.
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Thanks Levi,more to think about.by the way,checked out your gallery(s) :thumb:.
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Yikes, Gallery is working now! Thanks :thumb:
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with all due respect to (phil a),i have a different view. i contacted bryston before i bouhgt my sp2 about my concerns of the upcoming audio formats/hdmi etc. and asked them if i should wait.iwas told to get the sp2 enjoy it and we can upgrade to future formats.well as we know there is no upgrade to sp2. im a big boy i know things happen but... 10, 000 +4700+tax=15729.00 (minus trade in) is a bit more than 5000.00+ around 1500.00 give or take for upgrade ( 6500.00).
That has been covered here. Yes, they did make statements about upgradability. Many manufacturers have done this and been overly optimistic. Was I very disappointed - of course I was and I'd bet that most customers feel the same. As noted the math is not done yet on costs and other factors (e.g. trades). At this point, I think I'm being realistic about what a company can really offer (vs. what I'd like). If an SP2 (not sure what the list is) is $6.3k and used ones go for (I have not followed it - just an example) go for $3k (if you sell it yourself on places like Audiogon), I don't realistically expect to get $3k from the company as a trade.
I am also using my current SP1.7 with the new hi-rez formats movie formats via the multi-channel analog inputs. The Oppo BDP-83 sounds quite good. I have a friend who will likely not be able to afford a new pre/pro and will use his SP1.7 with the Oppo BDP-83. It's also not out of the question that I will not do the same thing if not permanently, then at least for a bit. My SP1.7 has the original 20 yr. warranty (from the date of manuf.) on analog and digital circuits. So I am waiting to see what Bryston does. I can live w/o the more flexible bass management (I use 4 Rel subs already). I'd like to be able to pass HDMI audio (e.g. from an SACD either as DSD or hi-rez PCM) into something that does digital well, but I have a Marantz DV-9600 and I also could either mod the Oppo or DV9600 or buy a Sony 5400ES CD/SACD unit. So if Bryston wants my business or the business of other SP1.7, SP2 (or SP1) owners, they need to consider all those factors too. They also may only offer trades for a limited period of time and that's something I may have to consider in my decision making process.
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with this proposed price point, they should let you notionally trade your older piece in and allow you to keep it.
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Let's see, I might be able to sell off my 2 vehicles, one of the dogs and some lawn equipment :lol:
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Your other option is not to buy the SP 3.0. :)
You can find great procs out there that costs less than $5K! :thumb:
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I'm sure there are nice processors for less than $5k. What will set the Bryston apart is 2-channel music. Based on my Marantz SR6300 in the bedroom, I'm sure the Marantz 8003 is a great processor for $2.5k. I believe a friend who used to work at the high end shop took it home, hoping it would be a almost as good as the SP1.7 on 2-channel music. He was thinking about buying it (the Marantz) at a great deal at an accommodation price and selling it eventually when the SP3 is out but the SP3 is out of his price range (even as an accommodation) and he intends to keep the SP1.7 along with the Oppo BDP-83 (his Marantz DV9500 is an Audiogon along with his Oppo 970 - he did not find the Marantz 8003 close enough on 2-channel music to the SP1.7). As I noted, the Oppo works quite well for hi-def movie sound over the multi-channel inputs. It is certainly a solution that is not that bad.
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Phil, I have an Oppo bd play I received a week ago. I have not had time to fuss with it other than watching some blu rays and dvd's. I have the thing also hooked up for analog 2 channel & it sounds good on bypass. I think a little better than stereo with the sp3, but like I said, I just got it. I have not done much music listening though lately. Mostly movies. Good machine though.
I have been having a few glitches with the sp3 lately, mostly with IR. And a few times i had to re- boot because it would not adjust volume. I need to keep an eye on it to see if it needs to be sent in or if it was just one of those things we have with electronics not obeying thier masters from time to time.... :scratch:
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Phil, I have an Oppo bd play I received a week ago. I have not had time to fuss with it other than watching some blu rays and dvd's. I have the thing also hooked up for analog 2 channel & it sounds good on bypass. I think a little better than stereo with the sp3, but like I said, I just got it. I have not done much music listening though lately. Mostly movies. Good machine though.
I have been having a few glitches with the sp3 lately, mostly with IR. And a few times i had to re- boot because it would not adjust volume. I need to keep an eye on it to see if it needs to be sent in or if it was just one of those things we have with electronics not obeying thier masters from time to time.... :scratch:
I've compared the BDP-83 to the Marantz DV9600 in the main system. I was surprised how good the BDP-83 was on the analog outs. Based on what I heard from the Oppo 980, I didn't expect them the BDP-83 to be that good. Now it wasn't as good as the the DV9600 IMO. It was a bit better balanced than the DV9600 on the lower octaves but was not as rich on the rest of them. Certainly not horrible at its price point. I have the Oppo 980 in the bedroom system on the other side of the wall to the main system. I've run digital and HDMI cables both ways (expecting a pre/pro with a digital out and enough HDMI inputs) in anticipation of evenually interconnecting them. I also have analog cables sitting behind the BCD-1 going to the bedroom system an a pair of balanced cables made (anticipating getting a pre/pro with balanced inputs so I can use the RCA outs of the BCD-1 in the bedroom system).
The Oppo 980 is much better on SACD over HDMI (I have a Marantz SR6300 in the bedroom system - see systems link below). I've heard the BDP-83 is better over HDMI than the Oppo 980 and sometime in a month or so when I have some time I'm going to compare the HDMI performance of the 980 to the BDP-83 in the bedroom system I have 250+ SACDs and probably 65-70 DVD-As and I'd like to improve especially on SACD over the DV9600. I can always move the DV9600 to the basement system.
Much depends on the pricing that comes in on the SP3, trade-in on the SP1.7 on which direction I head. I can live with what I have now. The BDP-83 works quite well on movies and I can leave he DV9600 in the system too and have the DV9600 (or BDP-83) modded like change the clock or other things that won't be silly expensive. There's always the Sony 5400ES CD/SACD player too that is $1.5k list (and can be bought for about $1.1k with shipping). So I'm going to wait and see what happens. Hopefully by CEDIA in Sept. James will have a bit better info and hopefully shortly after CES in Jan. things about the SP3 will be finalized.
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I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
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I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
I would agree.
Perhaps James will make available to some of us :o a DIY version of the SP3!!!!
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Hi James
Wondering if there has been any concession with regard to making the SP3 upgradable when the SP4 is made?
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Hi James
Wondering if there has been any concession with regard to making the SP3 upgradable when the SP4 is made?
Hi oldguy,
Unfortuately there is no way to know. This whole side of the industry has been a moving target. We had hoped that there would be a natural upgrade path from the SP2 to the SP3 as there was with the SP1 to the SP1.7 to the SP2. The technology just changes too rapidly and at some point there is no advantage trying to retro-fit the old to the new.
Christ just last week we were told HDMI 1.4 changes things again after spending 2 years developing 1.3. There even saying all new connectos are required.
james
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WOW......2 Years out the window for nothing.I had a feeling HDMI would be a whole new ball of wax.
By the sound of it I take it HDMI 1.4 will be in the new SP3?
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WOW......2 Years out the window for nothing.I had a feeling HDMI would be a whole new ball of wax.
By the sound of it I take it HDMI 1.4 will be in the new SP3?
Not sure at this point - we are discussing it now. It looks as if there is no advantage to 1.4 beyond video and because the SP3 first and formost is an AUDIO product I think we will move on as it is.
james
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There even saying all new connectors are required.
I think the new 19-pin Micro connector is for portable devices.
Ethernet channel and the new higher 4Kx2K resolution would seem like the biggest changes.
brucek
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Hi Ralph, where do you think you will trade your old SP1.7 or SP2? :scratch: Bryston or James as the manufacturer does not accept trade-in. I was informed that Trade-in if there is any, is through your authorized Bryston dealers. :)
Hi James, would there be an exception to the SP3.0 or are we at the mercy of Bryston dealer channel as far as trade-in? The reason I posted this is my local dealer does not accept trade-in like McIntosh or Krell as an example. :thumb:
--Levi
I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
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Hi Ralph, where do you think you will trade your old SP1.7 or SP2? :scratch: Bryston or James as the manufacturer does not accept trade-in. I was informed that Trade-in if there is any, is through your authorized Bryston dealers. :)
Hi James, would there be an exception to the SP3.0 or are we at the mercy of Bryston dealer channel as far as trade-in? The reason I posted this is my local dealer does not accept trade-in like McIntosh or Krell as an example. :thumb:
--Levi
I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
SP3 will be a 'special' case and we will work something out directly with current owners of SP1.7/SP2.
Sorry I misunderstood - when you asked me about trade ins I thought you were asking about 7B amplifiers?
james
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Heres the info I have so far:
Haven't read 1.4 cover to cover yet (450+ pages, yawn...) but as I suspected from my previous understanding, there's really nothing in that brings any meaningful benefit to consumers.
With 1.3 there was the benefit (?) of supporting transmission of HD (Dolby/DTS) compressed audio to the AVR, which given that that's quickly becoming a standard player feature to decode is no longer a big deal (i.e. it's lossless, so whether you send it out as compressed audio or PCM it's the *exact* same thing). And when you decompress in the AVR you lose BD-live features. So in some respects it's a negative - if you think BD-live has value.
Deepcolor and xvYCC color serve no purpose as there is *no* consumer content in this format, HD or otherwise (i.e. blue ray is 8 bit 4:2:0 YUV encoded - nothing more). I do agree long term it makes sense to allow for, but not as a critical feature.
So against that backdrop we have 1.4.
The built in ethernet "saves" a 50 cent connector and a $3 cable - but you'll need to buy all new HDMI cables and every piece of gear you own has to be HDMI 1.4. (I also have doubts that it will work with long cables - at least not rev 1 silicon).
Likewise the "back channel" SPDIF to get audio from the TV to the AVR replaces a RCA cable - now while the number of people using off the air reception is increasing I suspect demographically they are not your typical AVR customer, which I suspect is more likely to have a full setup of cable/sat boxes - and of course if they're using a projector then ATSC, if they have it, comes from an outboard tuner anyway.
Also, as the SPDIF is placed on the same wires as the ethernet there is this complex scheme to put bidirectional ethernet on the same pair of wires as SPDIF - this is bound to increase SPDIF jitter.
Again, you have to buy a new TV to get this - and the logic of buying a new TV and all new HDMI cables to replace a $1 RCA cable (OK $20 if you buy the Monster one...), err, well, the logic escapes me ;^)
All that being said, the ethernet and reverse SPDIF are handled "outside" of the HDMI chip itself so once a manufacturer has working chips (and I mean working in the real world) it won't be much to add that to our products.
All the stuff for 3D is experimental - the spec labels it all "preliminary, subject to change". I guess the addition of "camera" colorspaces makes sense, though really this is a subset of xvYCC so not clear what true value this might represent. AFAIK Silicon Image is the only chip vendor behind
this; we've talked to the ones we work with and they're in no rush to do anything with 1.4 - and they would be driven by big customers...draw your own conclusions ;^)
BTW: - here we go again: http://www.diiva.org/
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Hi Ralph, where do you think you will trade your old SP1.7 or SP2? :scratch: Bryston or James as the manufacturer does not accept trade-in. I was informed that Trade-in if there is any, is through your authorized Bryston dealers. :)
Hi James, would there be an exception to the SP3.0 or are we at the mercy of Bryston dealer channel as far as trade-in? The reason I posted this is my local dealer does not accept trade-in like McIntosh or Krell as an example. :thumb:
--Levi
I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
SP3 will be a 'special' case and we will work something out directly with current owners of SP1.7/SP2.
Sorry I misunderstood - when you asked me about trade ins I thought you were asking about 7B amplifiers?
james
Hi James
With this trade in, what are you going to do with all these old players?
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Thanks for the clarification James. You are the best! :thumb:
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Hi Ralph, where do you think you will trade your old SP1.7 or SP2? :scratch: Bryston or James as the manufacturer does not accept trade-in. I was informed that Trade-in if there is any, is through your authorized Bryston dealers. :)
Hi James, would there be an exception to the SP3.0 or are we at the mercy of Bryston dealer channel as far as trade-in? The reason I posted this is my local dealer does not accept trade-in like McIntosh or Krell as an example. :thumb:
--Levi
I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
SP3 will be a 'special' case and we will work something out directly with current owners of SP1.7/SP2.
Sorry I misunderstood - when you asked me about trade ins I thought you were asking about 7B amplifiers?
james
Hi James
With this trade in, what are you going to do with all these old players?
Hi werd,
Boy I have been tossing that one around for a while. I was thinking maybe we could remove the digital sections and resell them as a very inexpensive 5.1 analog preamp?
Or maybe run a contest and the best idea gets a free SP3?
james
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Here's an article on the hdmi 1.4 subject:
http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av-news/hdmi_14_-_another_new_example_of_planned_obsolesce_imposed_on_the_home_theater_market004232.php
james
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Normally, manufacturers recycle parts. Metal such as aluminum, copper etc can be sold to the scrap yard for recycling. PowerSupplies from SP1.7/3.0 can be used for other preamp or CD player/Dac. Recycle is the key so nothing is wasted.
I think James you are hoping that you don't get lots of trade-in so you don't have to worry about recycling. Recycling costs money but it is good for the environment to the very least. :lol:
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The best to do is get the SP3.0 out ASAP as the competitors have theirs out already (1.3a). :)
Here's an article on the hdmi 1.4 subject:
http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av-news/hdmi_14_-_another_new_example_of_planned_obsolesce_imposed_on_the_home_theater_market004232.php
james
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Let the so called competion ship out their massed produced recyclablesI'm glad Bryston is taking their time with the 3.0,it shows me they take pride and care in what they are making,hand soldered,hand built,not robotic ship them out as fast as you can type of ACME products.not some splash and dash outfit,one year warranty blah,blah,blah,Even if it took another year,at least you will have a pc.
that is of the utmost quality and sonics.I would like the 3.0 to be out but,
I believe she'll be worth the wait.Any rush job,you definately don't get any quality workmanship or warranty,same thing as the trades,rush job,BS workmanship.Yikes I don't know where this all came from,I'd better go mess with my 10B.
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I agree 100% with not rushing things up.That's why I bought the gear from Bryston as well as the fact that they are great People to deal with.
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Rest assured, there are going to be no rush jobs coming out from Bryston.
Since Montreal Audio Show, Munich High End Show in Germany and Bristol 2009, CES shows are over etc. Perhaps another year has passed. :lol:
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Maybe an add on for the SP2 for the audio chips??? Just a thought. "searching for spv" ???
But a 5.1 analog preamp is a good thought. Maybe even a preamp for a less expensive system where the owner cannot tell the difference from plain old dolby digital and the new music formats. Allot of our customers don't really care, and are happy with a cheaper system just so they can watch sports and news, take advantage of the cheap speakers the builders cut into thier celings, or listen to music while out on the padio or pool deck. I see all kinds.
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Hi James
Wondering if the SP3 (Audio Version) will have more than 1 HDMI input?I read in a write up some where that it will only have 1 in and one out.Figured it best to ask you.
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Hi James
Wondering if the SP3 (Audio Version) will have more than 1 HDMI input?I read in a write up some where that it will only have 1 in and one out.Figured it best to ask you.
Hi,
Originally we were going to have 3 versions - 1 with 1 HDMI in and out. We have decided there will only be 2 versions. One with Video on board and one without video. At this point it looks like both will have 8 HDMI inputs and 2 out.
james
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Thanks James....Sounds Great
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So, basically there's one version, with the option of adding a video section?
If the SP3 with the video section will be in the range of $10,000, any estimates on the version without the video option?
Interested to know how the video option affects the pricing. :)
brucek
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So, basically there's one version, with the option of adding a video section?
If the SP3 with the video section will be in the range of $10,000, any estimates on the version without the video option?
Interested to know how the video option affects the pricing. :)
brucek
Hi brucek,
We assume about $2000 for the video section so hopefully $8000 on the audio only SP3.
james
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You should be able to use BOTH HDMI outputs at the same time.
They should also be able to give different resolutons and refresh rates from each other.
1080p24 is a must.
Room EQ, ISF calibration, upscale.......
long list of must have items - SORRY if these are already in this thread, I joined it very late (page 20)
Andy.
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Has there been any consideration for thermally isolating the IC's from the power supplies? Since you can't give as long a warranty on the IC's, this could help them last longer by running them cooler.
Bill
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I'll be happy when it is done, a trade-in value is established (although I think many here may be overly optimistic about values which I would expect to be in the lower end of the range of what used ones go for, removing the pain of selling it versus doing it on your own for a few hundred more
That would be a very sensible decision - assuming that Bryston wants to find itself on the wrong end of a class-action lawsuit.
Unfortunately they have repeatedly and publically promised, since at least a couple of years before the launch of the SP2, that the SP1.7 and its successors would eventually be upgradeable to something capable of decoding "HD" audio formats. I and many other people would never have bought an SP1.7 in the first place if we hadn't been repeatedly promised that there would be an affordable upgrade path. And that goes double for SP2 owners. The minimum trade-in value they could possibly get away with for an SP1.7 would be the resale value of an SP1.7 at the time that Bryston first started publically announcing that it would be upgradeable - that's the amount of money that Bryston's promises have cost people who decided not to sell their SP1.7 then on the basis of that promise.
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I'll be happy when it is done, a trade-in value is established (although I think many here may be overly optimistic about values which I would expect to be in the lower end of the range of what used ones go for, removing the pain of selling it versus doing it on your own for a few hundred more
That would be a very sensible decision - assuming that Bryston wants to find itself on the wrong end of a class-action lawsuit.
Unfortunately they have repeatedly and publically promised, since at least a couple of years before the launch of the SP2, that the SP1.7 and its successors would eventually be upgradeable to something capable of decoding "HD" audio formats. I and many other people would never have bought an SP1.7 in the first place if we hadn't been repeatedly promised that there would be an affordable upgrade path. And that goes double for SP2 owners. The minimum trade-in value they could possibly get away with for an SP1.7 would be the resale value of an SP1.7 at the time that Bryston first started publically announcing that it would be upgradeable - that's the amount of money that Bryston's promises have cost people who decided not to sell their SP1.7 then on the basis of that promise.
I could not have said it better myself nicolasb.
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Yes I think some way of implementing an upgrade to current SP1.7's and SP2's looks like a better option than trade-ins given all the threatening litigation issues.
james
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Mad MR H,I do know 1080p,but what's the 24,short for 240hz :scratch:.
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This device - http://www.allaboutadapters.com/hdautooptoco.html has been discussed on other boards on this forum. I'm currently using the Oppo BDP-83 via its analog outs with my SP1.7. I do understand how everyone feels (both sides). I personally don't mind taking some sort of trade (even a bit less than going Audiogon sales) to get newer and more useful technology with more inputs. I also don't mind even some sort of trade on something like a re-designed BP-26 with HT bypass so I can go ahead and upgrade any future stuff with the smaller mass market companies who can do things faster. Of course. I'm more of a 2-channel person compared to many. I personally don't mind the trade option 1st (for a limited period of time) and those who choose to wait beyond that can get some upgrade path. Perhaps Bryston taking some of the traded units can use a small portion of them to try different options. I'd fully expect Bryston to have the SP3.0 out before they start experimenting with an upgrade path for the SP2s and SP 1.7s and I don't mind paying a bit getting newer stuff faster.
So if it was up to me I'd like to see Bryston offer a limited time trade-in program for 6 mos. while they develop upgrades for the older units and then have a reasonably priced (e.g. $1.5-2k similar to SP1.7s to SP2s) upgrade for a limited period of time (e.g. 18 mos.) From my perspective, a couple of years down the road with upgrades still available to SP1.7s and SP2s, it would not be a horrible thing for the used market if someone wants to sell one that has not been upgraded and it wouldn't be a horrible thing for Bryston to be able to make some money at a higher rate than the initial upgrades and the people who took the trade do so knowing their may be newer technology down the road and do so knowing they have to make a quick decision (I don't expect Bryston to offer trades long term).
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I don't see my self using HDMI audio to digital converter. Instead of extracting sound from HDMI, Why not just use the digital out from the Blu-Ray player? :duh: I am not a fan of digital video switcher the reason I have a Bryston SP 1.7 :) Also my Pioneer BDP-09FD has dual HDMI out, excellent DTS-HD built-in decoder and awesome 7.1 audio out! :thumb:
Basically I am happy with my SP1.7 for now. aa Thanks to Pioneer 09FD Blu-ray player!
This device - http://www.allaboutadapters.com/hdautooptoco.html has been discussed on other boards on this forum. I'm currently
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I don't see my self using HDMI audio to digital converter. Instead of extracting sound from HDMI, Why not just use the digital out from the Blu-Ray player? :duh: I am not a fan of digital video switcher the reason I have a Bryston SP 1.7 :) Also my Pioneer BDP-09FD has dual HDMI out, excellent DTS-HD built-in decoder and awesome 7.1 audio out! :thumb:
Basically I am happy with my SP1.7 for now. aa Thanks to Pioneer 09FD Blu-ray player!
This device - http://www.allaboutadapters.com/hdautooptoco.html has been discussed on other boards on this forum. I'm currently
The digital out of a Blu-Ray player will only give you pretty much what you can get on DVD. They may use the maximum bit rate for Dolby Digital but you wouldn't be getting much different than you could get on the Superbit DVDs (sound wise) Columbia Tri-Star released. There's a difference that can be noticed just between normal CD quality PCM (16/44.1) and compressed Dolby Digital and there's even more difference between CD quality PCM and the sound capability of Blu-Ray which can contain up to 8 channels of 24/192 uncompressed PCM. If you're one to be satisfied with a high quality MP3 than plain old Dolby Digital should be fine. Once you hear what SACD or DVD-A high resolution sound can be on a good quality system it's kind of hard to go back to something less than CD quality. The opening scenes of "Valkyrie" are much more impress with real hi-rez sound. I could live with the Oppo BDP-83 and the analog outs the way I have them now as I do use 4 subs (left, right center and rears), even though I presently have a sub on the rears I define them as small.
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What?!? I am confused. If you are using the SP1.7 digital input the sound is only as good as the SP1.7 dac. Anything higher will be down sampled to 24/96! :duh:
The Oppo BDP-83 sound quality is not it's famous traits. Video is good but audio sounded thin compared to the Pioneer 09FD.
The digital out of a Blu-Ray player will only give you pretty much what you can get on DVD. They may use the maximum bit rate for Dolby Digital but you wouldn't be getting much different than you could get on the Superbit DVDs (sound wise) Columbia Tri-Star released. There's a difference that can be noticed just between normal CD quality PCM (16/44.1) and compressed Dolby Digital and there's even more difference between CD quality PCM and the sound capability of Blu-Ray which can contain up to 8 channels of 24/192 uncompressed PCM. If you're one to be satisfied with a high quality MP3 than plain old Dolby Digital should be fine. Once you hear what SACD or DVD-A high resolution sound can be on a good quality system it's kind of hard to go back to something less than CD quality. The opening scenes of "Valkyrie" are much more impress with real hi-rez sound. I could live with the Oppo BDP-83 and the analog outs the way I have them now as I do use 4 subs (left, right center and rears), even though I presently have a sub on the rears I define them as small.
What I am implicating is that you don't need an HDMI to digital converter. A real solution is for a processor to have the correct decoder built-in (DTS-HD, Dolby-HD etc) aa
As for sound of the Oppo. Here is the internal shot. Note the powersupply for analog audio :lol:
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Oppo83Blu-Ray.jpg)
Pioneer 09FD
(http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/may-2009/pioneer-bdp-09fd/pioneer-bdp-09fd-fig-2.jpg)
Eight Wolfson DACs
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Pioneer%20BDP-09FD/IMG_4078.jpg)
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Do you not understand when you suggested "Why not just use the digital out from the Blu-Ray player? " that you don't get high resolution audio? Go to page 54 of your (Pioneer) owner's manual for the chart. In order to get high resolution multi-channel audio you need to use HDMI or analog outputs. Now I would not dispute or expect the DACs or power supply is better in the 09FD vs. the Oppo BDP-83. That's one reason many of us want HDMI in our Bryston pre/pros so we can output via HDMI and use the Bryston DACs
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You may wish to read this:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD/avrs/trueHD_avrs_2.html
?The coaxial or optical digital audio output enables 5.1-channel playback through A/V receivers and home-theater-in-a-box (HTIB) systems equipped only with Dolby Digital decoding*. While you won?t realize the full high-definition capabilities of Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD soundtracks, the sound quality can be better than that of standard-definition DVD, because your Dolby Digital receiver can take advantage of a higher 640 kbps core Dolby Digital signal on Blu-ray? discs.?
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This device - http://www.allaboutadapters.com/hdautooptoco.html has been discussed on other boards on this forum. I'm currently
I don't see the need for the HDMI to digital adapter that you suggested.
You may wish to read this:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD/avrs/trueHD_avrs_2.html
?The coaxial or optical digital audio output enables 5.1-channel playback through A/V receivers and home-theater-in-a-box (HTIB) systems equipped only with Dolby Digital decoding*. While you won?t realize the full high-definition capabilities of Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD soundtracks, the sound quality can be better than that of standard-definition DVD, because your Dolby Digital receiver can take advantage of a higher 640 kbps core Dolby Digital signal on Blu-ray? discs.?
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Yes I think some way of implementing an upgrade to current SP1.7's and SP2's looks like a better option than trade-ins given all the threatening litigation issues.
james
James,
i hope Bryston still follows the SP3 (trade in) path instead of upgrading the SP1.7, SP2... :icon_lol: ?!?
al.
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Hi Al,
Yes I thought the upgrade path would be the best option for most but based on some customers concern with the trade in values they might receive for their older units we have looked at what we could do to allow the upgrade of current SP2's and SP1.7's
At this point it looks like we might be able to do it with an outboard box that would connect to the SP2/SP1.7.
james
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That sounds good James.
Now all I need to do is upgrade mine to SP2.
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Hi Al,
Yes I thought the upgrade path would be the best option for most but based on some customers concern with the trade in values they might receive for their older units we have looked at what we could do to allow the upgrade of current SP2's and SP1.7's
At this point it looks like we might be able to do it with an outboard box that would connect to the SP2/SP1.7.
james
No... :bawl:---please don't tell us that 1.7/2.0 owners don't have the chance to trade in their units.
it was such a good idea.
al.
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James,
if the outboard becomes reality- what connectors will it have?
al.
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Hi Al,
Yes I thought the upgrade path would be the best option for most but based on some customers concern with the trade in values they might receive for their older units we have looked at what we could do to allow the upgrade of current SP2's and SP1.7's
At this point it looks like we might be able to do it with an outboard box that would connect to the SP2/SP1.7.
james
No... :bawl:---please don't tell us that 1.7/2.0 owners don't have the chance to trade in their units.
it was such a good idea.
al.
Hi Al,
No I think the trade in idea makes the most sense in my opinion I am just thinking of ways of offering an alternative to those that do not agree with this approach.
james
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...boy! i lost weight and had to change my shirt a few times during the last two minutes because of the sweating.
need a cold drink now!
al.
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I've noted the trade-in is a good idea but that I think some may have expectations that are perhaps not something that a manufacturer can do. A secondary option is great idea. The idea of an outboard box that might even have the potential to be used with other brands is not a bad idea. There may be people out there with other brands of expensive processors or flagship receivers they paid lots for and it could be something that makes them look at Bryston more favorably.
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Hi Phil,
Yes we were thinking an outboard box that would 'slave' to the SP2 or SP1.7. We could have say 8-HDMI inputs and decord them in HD and then output them through a 7.1 RCA fully discrete Class A preamp section (same circuitry as in the new SP3)?
james
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Yes that is a great idea James. I hope it materializes.
Your market will definitely much broader with an outboard box if the cost vs performance proves to have good value.
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............Yes we were thinking an outboard box that would 'slave' to the SP2 or SP1.7. We could have say 8-HDMI inputs and decord them in HD and then output them through a 7.1 RCA fully discrete Class A preamp section (same circuitry as in the new SP3)?
james
I'm a bit confused by this solution.
What would we do with the analog 7.1 set of signals? The SP2 only has a 5.1 analog pass-through input.
The cost of such a device would be quite high, I would imagine.
It would require a case with appropriate jacks, remote control, power supplies, DAC's and a DSP processor to decode signals that would also include the DTS and Dolby HD bitstreams.
Basically sounds like an SP3 without the analog input. I can't imagine it costing much less than ~$4K...
I suppose that this is cheaper than the trade-in route, which I suppose would be in the order of ~$6K ($8K-$2K trade-in)?
At first glance it sounds like a messy solution.
Personally, I love my SP2. I wish it had some HDMI inputs on it that would pass the HDMI signal out to my HDTV and decode the audio. It would be nice if it decoded Dolby HD and DTS HD audio. I would like at least 4 HDMI inputs for a BluRay player, Sat receiver and Laptop, and a spare. I ain't prepared to go another $4-$6K to get it. :roll:
brucek
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What would we do with the analog 7.1 set of signals? The SP2 only has a 5.1 analog pass-through input.
brucek
What!? SP2 only has 5.1 analog input? :scratch:
James I am seriosly not going the SP2 route. That is a serious downgrade.
Can some please clarify this?
I found the answer. :green:
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............Yes we were thinking an outboard box that would 'slave' to the SP2 or SP1.7. We could have say 8-HDMI inputs and decord them in HD and then output them through a 7.1 RCA fully discrete Class A preamp section (same circuitry as in the new SP3)?
james
I'm a bit confused by this solution.
What would we do with the analog 7.1 set of signals? The SP2 only has a 5.1 analog pass-through input.
The cost of such a device would be quite high, I would imagine.
It would require a case with appropriate jacks, remote control, power supplies, DAC's and a DSP processor to decode signals that would also include the DTS and Dolby HD bitstreams.
Basically sounds like an SP3 without the analog input. I can't imagine it costing much less than ~$4K...
I suppose that this is cheaper than the trade-in route, which I suppose would be in the order of ~$6K ($8K-$2K trade-in)?
At first glance it sounds like a messy solution.
Personally, I love my SP2. I wish it had some HDMI inputs on it that would pass the HDMI signal out to my HDTV and decode the audio. It would be nice if it decoded Dolby HD and DTS HD audio. I would like at least 4 HDMI inputs for a BluRay player, Sat receiver and Laptop, and a spare. I ain't prepared to go another $4-$6K to get it. :roll:
brucek
I agree. It probably is easier for Bryston to do it that way rather than figure out fitting a new digital board into SP 1.7s and SP2s. It also is something that could be of interest to owners of other high end processors who don't want to spend more than a certain amount. I don't really want another box. If they offer a trade of anything reasonable for my SP1.7, I'm more inclined to go that route than wait for however long it will take for the 'upgrade' to come out. I don't see that solution being in the same price range as the SP1.7 to SP2 upgrade and as you noted it leaves you with 7.1 analog outs vs. 5.1 analog ins. I can live with my Oppo BDP-83 for that mess and my Oppo three in one out HDMI switch. I have an HD TV Tuner, the BDP-83 and a Marantz DV9600 going HDMI at the moment. I might end up with a Modwright BDP-83 and certainly don't need 8 HDMI inputs for anything (the only other thing I can see hooking up is my Western Digital Media Player I have not got to yet). Hopefully there will be some sort of trade-in program. Otherwise, I might need to consider alternatives such as a selling and getting what I can for the SP1.7 and moving is a preamp with HT bypass that's a bit more high end than a BP-16.
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Nice Bryston SP3 spy shot! :grin: 2008 CEDIA Expo pictures :thumb:
Having seen the rear, I would definitely take the trade-in offer.
(http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/artman2/uploads/1/Bryston-sp3-Front.jpg)
(http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/artman2/uploads/1/bryston-sp3-rear-600.jpg)
I thought it looked similar to Cary's. :scratch:
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/707mitr.cary.jpg)
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WOW......2 Years out the window for nothing.I had a feeling HDMI would be a whole new ball of wax.
By the sound of it I take it HDMI 1.4 will be in the new SP3?
Not sure at this point - we are discussing it now. It looks as if there is no advantage to 1.4 beyond video and because the SP3 first and formost is an AUDIO product I think we will move on as it is.
james
I'd agree. Stay with HDMI 1.3.
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No I think the trade in idea makes the most sense in my opinion I am just thinking of ways of offering an alternative to those that do not agree with this approach.
james
[/quote]
Hi,
I want to add my voice to the trade-in discussion.
Here is my take on the trade-in value:
1) SP2 to SP3 > $3,000
2) SP1 to SP3 > $4,000
3) SP1, SP2 - upgrade only > $1,500
Note: upgrade only option would include a slave unit, limited programming updates and 2 HDMI connections???
One solution to the older SP1/2 would be to convert them - reduced digital and increase analog sections??? Include a phone stage for turntables???
Here are my concerns with SP3:
1) HDMI 1.4 versus 1.3
2) USB 3 versus 2
The technology is changing rapidly, so what will Bryston do in the near future? It is all about downloading and solid state devices, so the unit needs to be ready... :roll:
Ciao Luigi
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Technology always changes. Digital and video seem to change more rapidly. That's why I like the option w/o video processing. I can always buy the next generation of player. I've owned some expensive things in the past that by today's standards would almost be doorstops. That's why I like the Oppo BDP-83 and may have a reasonable mod done to it and I don't mind at that price point getting the next generation whenever it comes out.
I also think people are being unrealistic about trade-ins and what a manufacturer can offer. I have a friend who is selling his SP1.7 on Audiogon and is not asking an arm and a leg and is getting lower offers. I think realistically (not that I don't want more) a trade in of an SP2 will be less than $2k, an SP1.7 a few hundred less and an SP1 a few hundred less than that. HDMI 1.4 or USB 3.0 will become more common and perhaps more popular too. If it becomes the norm on processors, the SP3 will take a hit on value as will any older technology. One can't expect technology to remain the same or for someone else to take a financial hit for a non-essential item built with the technology of the day when it was designed. It's that way with most technology items. You buy when they are current and decide when to sell or hold based on your own preferences.
I had a $7.5k DVD transport at one point several years back. I think one needs to buy by what fits their budget and their comfort level for future technology and realistic value. What's an SP1.7 or SP2 going to be worth when HDMI 1.4 and USB 3.0 is the norm? How about what it will be worth when the replacement for HDMI 1.4 and USB 3.0 is the norm? Point is don't buy digital or video electronics in particular if you're concerned about future value. To me the Oppo BDP-83 may be my comfort level. Some else may not mind the Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player at 3 times the price. Someone else might not mind the upcoming Marantz reference Blu-Ray/SACD player at $6.5k list. It's OK if you spend more money on your preferences but don't expect Pioneer Elite or Marantz to subsidize your decision when the next generation is out. I'm sure James and Bryston are going to do all they can do to satisfy customers under the circumstances. The fact they won't please everyone is a given. They can't eat the costs of decisions made by every single person based on their own preferences and priorities.
I
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I agree. Buy a car last year without a usb port for your I-pod and expect your money back for one like this years models. ( just an example I heard from a couple talking about that in the restraunt last week. )
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I agree.
I don't agree, and I don't agree with Phil either. Your analogies are not representative of the situation.
The situation is that Bryston always made it very clear that a prime feature of the SP1, SP1.7 and SP2 was its easy upgrade path. There was never any mention that advances in digital technology would mean they had to break that promise.
Any reasonable interpretation is that there is an implicit understanding that the upgrade path, (whether through replacement with a new unit or upgrading of the existing unit), would not be the price of a new unit minus a few dollars. That isn't in the spirit of upgradability.
I have been willing to pay the high-end prices for all my Bryston products with an understanding that the excellent warranties and the upgradability is baked into that retail price.
Phil says: Point is don't buy digital or video electronics in particular if you're concerned about future value.. Well, normally I don't, unless the company claims that there will be an easy upgrade path, and as a result I make the decision to pay the high price for that item. I very likely would not have bought the higher priced item if the upgrade promise wasn't made.
brucek
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I agree and that's a good part of the reason I went with the SP1.7. I agree that Bryston made representations. An HDMI to multi-channel transcoder would be an easy upgrade path. That means certain sacrifices. Bass management probably has to be in the player and if you have an SP1.7 or SP2 your limits. James has also indicated an outboard box is a consideration. I don't consider that an upgrade to the existing equipment but it is an upgrade path. I don't think an upgrade path means Bryston has to lose their shirts on a trade-in program. I'd personally rather take a realistic trade-in from Bryston on my unit and let those that want to wait for an outboard box wait. I have no problem with that. It may take several months or longer to get to that outboard box. Is your old pre/pro more obsolete over time doing that? I think so. Is it cheaper? Perhaps initially it's somewhat cheaper. Whether it is a better value in the long run is another issue. I am disappointed by the way things transpired but happy that Bryston is apparently going to offer choices and that's all we can ask. I was just saying that I think that those who believe unrealistic trade-in values are what they are going to get are going to likely be disappointed.
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An HDMI to multi-channel transcoder would be an easy upgrade path.
A terrible solution, IMO
I don't think an upgrade path means Bryston has to lose their shirts on a trade-in program.
Instead, the loyal customers should?
I paid $5500 for my SP1 and $1795 for the upgrade to an SP2. So, my all in price is $7295.
I'm certainly willing to pay the same $1795 for an upgrade/trade-in for an SP3. But you feel I should be satisfied with only receiving $2000 for my SP2? That means the SP3 will cost me $6000. What am I getting for $6K other than a couple new decoding methods and some HDMI inputs. Is that really worth $6000 to you? :o
brucek
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I'm just happy Bryston was even thinking about a trade in program.
If I had a sp2 and the SP3 was out,I'd be happy with whatever bryston would give me or sell her on the net.
My Arcam AV-8,I paid 5000,she's obsolite now and they don't even make the AV-9 anymore and they were excellent prepros.I don't think Arcam would give me anything for it.I dunno,I'm quite amazed that Bryston is working on a trade up
A couple of hundred bucks for parts,I'd be happy with that,of course that's me as I am looking forward to the SP3.Some people expect way too much for pcs. that will be dinosauric soon enough.
Todays computers,cameras, is basically obsolete as soon as you buy it.
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I'm just happy Bryston was even thinking about a trade in program.
If I had a sp2 and the SP3 was out,I'd be happy with whatever bryston would give me or sell her on the net.
My Arcam AV-8,I paid 5000,she's obsolite now and they don't even make the AV-9 anymore and they were excellent prepros.I don't think Arcam would give me anything for it.I dunno,I'm quite amazed that Bryston is working on a trade up
A couple of hundred bucks for parts,I'd be happy with that,of course that's me as I am looking forward to the SP3.Some people expect way too much for pcs. that will be dinosauric soon enough.
Todays computers,cameras, is basically obsolete as soon as you buy it.
I totally agree. It is an unreasonable explanation to keep making something into state-of-the-art at a fraction of the cost. It's to be expected that a loyal customer will get something of reasonable value. Reasonable value means for the lack of the hassle of selling it yourself you get a trade at a bit less than going retail. I looked at Audiogon the other day and an SP2 was listed (not sold) for $2.6k and an SP1.7 was listed (not sold) for $1.9k. Expecting more than market value is in my view not very realistic. You've had the use of the item and like most audio equipment, cars, computers, etc., it depreciates and does not have the same value as you paid for it and new models are new models. If, for example, the price is $3k for a transcoder and someone wants to put an outboard box to get HDMI audio on something worth a bit over $2k, please don't handle finances or explosives. The device worth $2k will be worth less a year from now as will the add on box for $3k. An $8k processor that is now used will also be worth less. Much depends on how fast technology progresses and over time (which of course still leaves the problem of more cash upfront) it is entirely possible the $8k processor will be worth more than the 2 boxes.
If one buys audio/video equipment with the idea of not losing lots of value (especially with digital or video) over a period of time they just are not being realistic in expecting someone else to pay the tab to bail them out of decisions made. Citing the fact that one has been a loyal customer does not mean Bryston is solely responsible for changes in technology beyond giving some sort of upgrade path. High end audio as a hobby is not for everyone. One is also getting balanced inputs and a new 2-channel preamp for their money. Without the improvements in 2-channel sound, I do not think $6k is reasonable. My personal priority places a premium on 2-channel performance.
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A year or older can drop a pc.by 50% on the net.
Market value and with the NEW technology even more.
If I have to have it(and I will)I'll pay for it,James can I have a SP-3 for FREE :o,
Thanks, a loyal Brystoneer.
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A year or older can drop a pc.by 50% on the net.
Market value and with the NEW technology even more.
If I have to have it(and I will)I'll pay for it,James can I have a SP-3 for FREE :o,
Thanks, a loyal Brystoneer.
Exactly, James can you make that two free SP3s aa
I'll even get a Bryston tatoo for a free SP3 8)
Seriously, depreciation/use are not Bryston's financial responsibility/burden. We do understand some promises were made and James is trying to be reasonable to satisfy as many as possible. I for one appreciate it. I also don't expect an upgrade to an SP3 to be as cheap as prior upgrades. No only to costs go up on certain things, it is a huge increase in processing power with the new formats. The change from an SP1 was somewhat better DACs and a multi-channel input. The change from an SP1.7 to an SP2 was better digital processing power of a smaller degree than processing to go from where an SP2 now is to an SP3. From the SP1.7 to SP2 is kind of like going to a PC with more RAM and a better digital section on the sound card. Going to an SP3 is like going to a whole next generation of PC.
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Hi All,
We will certainly do our best to accomodate all our customers in a fair and reasonable way going forward. It is true though that the SP3 is a much more complicated and sophisticated unit that the pevious SP1.7's and SP2's.
james
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Hi All,
We will certainly do our best to accomodate all our customers in a fair and reasonable way going forward. It is true though that the SP3 is a much more complicated and sophisticated unit that the pevious SP1.7's and SP2's.
james
Thanks James!
I am looking forward to hear which options will be available once the SP-3 is available. Then everybody can make their individual decision.
Is Bryston making progress on the development of the SP-3? Will the Cedia EXPO see a working prototype (or even a release candidate) of the SP-3?
Chris told me on the High End in Munich in May that Bryston had hired another software specialist... :wink:
Well, on another sibject, I think it has been discussed in this thread that the SP-3 will have some kind of room correction. I can't, however recall whether a decision had been made regarding the system. If I remember correctly, Trinnov and Audyssey have been mentioned as options. Has a decision been made in that respect? Or has Bryson (like Anthem) developed their own room correction?
Is the front and back panel design as published appr. a year ago (and shown a few messages above) still the current design? Maybe I am dreaming that one up, but wasn't there a mention that the design has changed since then?
Regarding the HDMI question(s), I am not so keen to get HDMI 1.4 (which is unlikely to be included in the SP-3 anyway), but to get a working implementation on HDMI 1.3 with fast switching times. There are implementations out there that use a single HDMI receiver per input, in contrast to a single receiver chip that 4 or 8 sources are switched to. The advantage of the one chip per input approach is that the switching unit can maintain the connections to the different devices so that it hasn't to do all the HDMI/HDCP negotiations every time an input is being switched. The result is supposed to be lightning fast switching times.
As for the USB discussion, the bandwidth of a USB 2.0 port should be more than enough to send a high quality audio signal through it. So I don't see the neccessity for USB 3.0.
Anyway, I don't expect Bryston to be the very first to implement new technologies. But I do expect Bryston to deliver exceptional audio quality and usability with the product. There is number of companies out there that throw new technology onto the market (in the media player market, I am thinking about Syabas with their Popcorn Hour devices or HDI with their Dune HD line) and release products to the public with the latest chips and/or amazing capabilities. At the same time these products, despite the cutting edge features they offer (or because of them), have shortcomings with respect to reliability or even basic functionalities.
Bryston's approach has worked well so far, for Bryston as well as its customers.
Cheers!
Markus
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I agree.
I don't agree, and I don't agree with Phil either. Your analogies are not representative of the situation.
The situation is that Bryston always made it very clear that a prime feature of the SP1, SP1.7 and SP2 was its easy upgrade path. There was never any mention that advances in digital technology would mean they had to break that promise.
Any reasonable interpretation is that there is an implicit understanding that the upgrade path, (whether through replacement with a new unit or upgrading of the existing unit), would not be the price of a new unit minus a few dollars. That isn't in the spirit of upgradability.
I have been willing to pay the high-end prices for all my Bryston products with an understanding that the excellent warranties and the upgradability is baked into that retail price.
Phil says: Point is don't buy digital or video electronics in particular if you're concerned about future value.. Well, normally I don't, unless the company claims that there will be an easy upgrade path, and as a result I make the decision to pay the high price for that item. I very likely would not have bought the higher priced item if the upgrade promise wasn't made.
brucek
Very well written!
...And Phil might be forgetting about one very important aspect about this, dealing directly with Bryston on this trade in program eliminates the dealer mark up.
So all I ask Bryston is please be fair to use loyal customers who wish to upgrade from the SP1/1.7/2 to the SP3.
And again please read the brucek post I quoted!
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Hi all
quote from lessloss from above "...And Phil might be forgetting about one very important aspect about this, dealing directly with Bryston on this trade in program eliminates the dealer mark up."
I dont think this to be true, infact i can only see this being done by a dealer. It might infringe on Bryston/dealer partnership somehow. I dont know though maybe not. :dunno:
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Hi all
quote from lessloss from above "...And Phil might be forgetting about one very important aspect about this, dealing directly with Bryston on this trade in program eliminates the dealer mark up."
I dont think this to be true, infact i can only see this being done by a dealer. It might infringe on Bryston/dealer partnership somehow. I dont know though maybe not. :dunno:
Hi Ralph, where do you think you will trade your old SP1.7 or SP2? :scratch: Bryston or James as the manufacturer does not accept trade-in. I was informed that Trade-in if there is any, is through your authorized Bryston dealers. :)
Hi James, would there be an exception to the SP3.0 or are we at the mercy of Bryston dealer channel as far as trade-in? The reason I posted this is my local dealer does not accept trade-in like McIntosh or Krell as an example. :thumb:
--Levi
I would really like to stick with Bryston (SP3), and hope it is a real deal with the trade in. But at this point with the economy the way it is, I have not been as busy as last year. I am working, but the big spenders are far & few between. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
SP3 will be a 'special' case and we will work something out directly with current owners of SP1.7/SP2.
Sorry I misunderstood - when you asked me about trade ins I thought you were asking about 7B amplifiers?
james
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50270.msg638779#msg638779
...also it seems as though I can't delete my multiple posts?
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I don't know about Bryston's agreements with dealers. The dealer would likely have to sell the new unit. I'd guess that Bryston would not ask the dealer to be responsible for the value of the trade-in. I'm sure James will read the previous post and the link it contained. I've said that I think some appear to be unrealistic about what a manuf. can offer. There seems to be the expectation on the part of some that every upgrade has to be in the range of what an SP1.7 to SP2 costs regardless of whether it is more complex. Also some seem to feel that the use they have had of their current equipment is something Bryston is responsible to eat. My point to that is just that the use of the equipment is worth something. If someone has been using an SP1 for a couple of years and then upgraded to a SP1.7 and will own that for five years until the SP3 is out and shelled out $7k in total they somehow think that the only thing they should pay is something like a $1.5k upgrade price based on previous upgrades w/o consideration for what they have used or how more complex an SP3 will be. I don't think that is either realistic or fair to Bryston based on the facts. If an outboard box to upgrade costs $3.5k and they choose that route that's OK. It will cost more I'd imagine for someone to trade and that's OK too. At the end of the day and a few years down the road, there probably won't be tons of difference of value in relative terms between both solutions.
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I feel for Bryston here and I continue to commend them for working on options that aim to keep all stakeholders satisfied.
In relation to the trade-in option, before people jump the gun on likely upgrade costs, an issue that probably needs to be clarified is whether an upgrader would pay the difference between trade-in value of his/her sp1/1.7/2 and the wholesale or retail price of the sp3.
In one sense, if Bryston is contemplating a factory direct trade-in path, then it makes some sense for it to be the former.
On the other hand, Bryston dealers may well be upset by this as the primary potential customers who would have been likely to buy an SP3 (i.e owners of sp1.7/2's) are, effectively, now out of the mix. This view should be qualified somewhat as, had an upgrade path existed in the first place, these customers would not have bought an SP3 (but rather the upgrade 'kit') and, in these circumstances, it would be difficult for dealers to claim lost profits on SP3 sales to these customers. In any event, I would expect Bryston dealers to be understanding of the legitimate concerns of sp1.7/2 customers in present circumstances and of Bryston in seeking to reasonably deal with these concerns and thereby maintain its excellent reputation. In the greater scheme of things, these things should matter more even if they can't be quantified.
Anyways, I'm obviously looking forward to seeing what Bryston does here and I hope that it benefits from constructive input of forum members.
Cheers
Adrian
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Hi James,
somehow my SP-3 related question(s) seem(s) to have gotten lost in all the upgrade discussion.
Any info on this?
Cheers!
Markus
Is Bryston making progress on the development of the SP-3? Will the Cedia EXPO see a working prototype (or even a release candidate) of the SP-3?
Chris told me on the High End in Munich in May that Bryston had hired another software specialist... :wink:
Well, on another sibject, I think it has been discussed in this thread that the SP-3 will have some kind of room correction. I can't, however recall whether a decision had been made regarding the system. If I remember correctly, Trinnov and Audyssey have been mentioned as options. Has a decision been made in that respect? Or has Bryson (like Anthem) developed their own room correction?
Is the front and back panel design as published appr. a year ago (and shown a few messages above) still the current design? Maybe I am dreaming that one up, but wasn't there a mention that the design has changed since then?
Regarding the HDMI question(s), I am not so keen to get HDMI 1.4 (which is unlikely to be included in the SP-3 anyway), but to get a working implementation on HDMI 1.3 with fast switching times. There are implementations out there that use a single HDMI receiver per input, in contrast to a single receiver chip that 4 or 8 sources are switched to. The advantage of the one chip per input approach is that the switching unit can maintain the connections to the different devices so that it hasn't to do all the HDMI/HDCP negotiations every time an input is being switched. The result is supposed to be lightning fast switching times.
As for the USB discussion, the bandwidth of a USB 2.0 port should be more than enough to send a high quality audio signal through it. So I don't see the neccessity for USB 3.0.
Anyway, I don't expect Bryston to be the very first to implement new technologies. But I do expect Bryston to deliver exceptional audio quality and usability with the product. There is a number of companies out there that throw new technology onto the market (in the media player market, I am thinking about Syabas with their Popcorn Hour devices or HDI with their Dune HD line) and release products to the public with the latest chips and/or amazing capabilities. At the same time these products, despite the cutting edge features they offer (or because of them), have shortcomings with respect to reliability or even basic functionalities.
Bryston's approach has worked well so far, for Bryston as well as its customers.
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Hi markus,
Sorry I missed this - who is Chris?
Yes we have hired 2 new software engineers - this SP3 is a lot more complicated than previous realized and I am under pressure to get this to market.
My plan is to bring the AUDIO ONLY version of the SP3 to market first and hopefully this fall. This will be a state of the art analog/digital audio player with all the basic features. As we move forward we will introduce the video version of the SP3 and then look at other features we can add as we go.
The new SP3 will be 'IP' addressable so future software upgrades and trouble shooting in the field should be easily implimented as we get feedback from our customers.
james
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Sounds cool - so we just need to connect it to the internet?
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Sounds cool - so we just need to connect it to the internet?
Hi Phil,
Correct.
james
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ROOM CORRECTION & BASS CONTROL EQ
For room correction many firms (Denon/Onkyo/Integra/NAD....) adopt the AUDYSSEY system as this is what they develop.
They are also now about to release a BASS correction system as well.
Maybe that is an option for you rather than re inventing the wheel - with respect to room correction.
The Audyssey system has a "user" version and then a more advaned "installer" version............Installers will aready have the more advanced mic kit and software required.
HDMI OUTPUTS
If you are going to build an Audio only unit that is an EXCELLENT idea as many projectors and TVs already adopt video processing and upscale, even source players these days come equiped with video processing.
I would ask that even if you go audio only that is has two HDMI outputs as this is the norm these days, and that BOTH can run at the same time - these will be pass through for video (and maybe audio).
These are used for people that have a TV and Projector connected, the output removes the need for a HDMI splitter.
All current audio formats and HDMI 1.3a,b,c, 1.4 whatever today's up to date version is !!!!
HDMI INPUTS
More than four HDMI inputs please - OR built with 4 HDMI and an optional card to add 2/4 more ???
AUDIO OUTPUTS
Assignable balanced outputs - Onkyo already offer balanced bi amp outputs for front left & right - I would like to see bi amp options for front left right AND CENTER rear as well, For many years I have been setting up DSP based multi in/out devices and a simple perameter recall allows change of input/output use.
MORE THAN ONE bass output connector - This seems to be missed by so many companies.
CONTROL
RS232 - modules released for Crestron,AMX,Pronto...... at time of product release - This help the unit get specified at the design stage of a system.
IR with an INPUT for IR from a control system
TRIGGERS
Three or more 12v assignable triggers
Lexicon MC12 had 2, Onkyo 886 has 3...........
12v triggers are used for screen control, Amp switch on, mains control sytems, curtains...........
It is essential to have a number of these to allow various states of use.
THANK YOU
These suggestions may have been in this thread already but I have joined it late.......
Many more ideas / suggestions available if you would like.........
Andy.
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+ fully differential design incl. DAC and preamp;
+ DAC section that is at least as good as BDA-1;
+ if not the above, then 7.1 digital output (decoded/PCM)
bypassing internal DAC;
+ word clock input to slave transport;
+ world-class no-compromise analog preamp on par with BP26;
+ tactile transducer output (appropriately crossover filtered);
For an audio specialty company like Bryston, the design goal should be to produce what so far nobody has ever succeded with (in reality), i.e. a product that even the most hardcore 2-channel audiophiles could switch to without feeling they are giving up anything... :inlove:
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I would have to agree with the last poster...If it looses nothing in the 2 channel dept it would be the cats meow.
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I understand that they are so far along with the product development that the final specs have already been determined. I therefore expect that a wish list of features for the first version of SP3 are very unlikely to impact on the final product. But perhaps I am wrong.
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I understand that they are so far along with the product development that the final specs have already been determined. I therefore expect that a wish list of features for the first version of SP3 are very unlikely to impact on the final product. But perhaps I am wrong.
No - you're likely right. If software has capabilities, it is possible to add some features. It's just that it is a long thread, some have not followed it and have not read all the posts and just don't have the history of them.
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I hold my hands up - I have not read any of the thread.......
Sorry!!!
New to this forum, but I hope my post is of some use......
Andy
(owner of the tallest Bryston High Fi :icon_twisted:)
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I hold my hands up - I have not read any of the thread.......
Sorry!!!
New to this forum, but I hope my post is of some use......
Andy
(owner of the tallest Bryston High Fi :icon_twisted:)
Andy - not a problem - the thread was started at the end of January 2008 so it is a year and a half old. I was a good pest and bugged James for a USB input early on. I believe the last James posted it is going to have 8 HMDI inputs and 2 outputs. The non-video processing unit will be out first. I believe James indicated 2 sets of balanced inputs. Perhaps in a couple of weeks James will give us an update prior to CEDIA.
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James:
Will the SP3 enable users to set different speaker configurations for HT and music? Like many interested in this pre-pro, I have one system. For HT, it is configured as 7.2. When playing SACD, DVD-A, or Blu-ray music, I'd like to enable a 5.2 system, using the rear speakers for point-source sound, rather than have to use the surround speakers.
Also, will the SP3 allow for stereo subs?
Thanks for your fine products and expert service. I truly hope the SP3 will fit my needs.
RJ
System: Bryston 6B-SST(C); 2 4B-SST(C); Paradigm Reference Signature S8 (front), C5 (center), ADP (surround), S4 (rear), 2 Velodyne DD15 (subs); Oppo BDP-83; Denon AVR 2805 (used as pre-pro, while patiently awaiting Bryston SP3).
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Hi RJ,
Our intention -like in the SP2 - is that you can have different speaker configurations per input.
There will be stereo subs capability using the Balanced out and the unbalanced out in parallel at this point.
james
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Is there a price guide for the SP3 and an estimated time to market ?
Wont hold you to any of that just considering some options and time frames at the mo.......
As I am sure are many others..
Andy.
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Hi Andy,
We are showing the final prototype at CEDIA next month and hopefully be ready for sale in late fall.
james
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I will count the hours till CEDIA............
Hope to see a press release the second the doors open :drool:
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Hi Andy,
We are showing the final prototype at CEDIA next month and hopefully be ready for sale in late fall.
james
James - when available (I know you may have commitments), perhaps right before you leave, I know we all would appreciate photos. I'd be happy to hold onto them until you give the OK to post them somewhere :green:
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Hi Andy,
We are showing the final prototype at CEDIA next month and hopefully be ready for sale in late fall.
james
James - when available (I know you may have commitments), perhaps right before you leave, I know we all would appreciate photos. I'd be happy to hold onto them until you give the OK to post them somewhere :green:
yes, some more photos would be great!
al.
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Hi Andy,
We are showing the final prototype at CEDIA next month and hopefully be ready for sale in late fall.
james
By the final prototype at CEDIA, I assume you mean the audio only version of the SP-3 vs. the version with both audio and video. Right ?
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Hi Andy,
We are showing the final prototype at CEDIA next month and hopefully be ready for sale in late fall.
james
By the final prototype at CEDIA, I assume you mean the audio only version of the SP-3 vs. the version with both audio and video. Right ?
Correct - Audio only version.
james
PS -Iam getting reports back that many of the current processors out there now are having issues with HDMI video handshakes.
-
James,
''HDMI issues''? what exactly?
al.
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James,
''HDMI issues''? what exactly?
al.
Hi Al,
Problems with the HDMI not working because it does not recognize the component attached to it - its the copy-code issue I believe.
I have just heard from a few installers that they are going back to 'component' video hookups as this whole HDMI thing is a real pain.
james
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I agree James...HDMI could have implicated much better.
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ok, James. thanx.
if it is the 'HDCP' thing then both components have to have this code to recognize each other, correct?
to be honest...i don't think that a brandnew digital audio/video standard will be available in the near future even if HDMI has its troubles at the moment?!
al.
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Apple still doesn't support/offer HDMI in their products...
does anyone knows why?
al.
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Hi markus,
Sorry I missed this - who is Chris?
Hi James,
does the name Chris Russell mean anything to you? ;-)
Regarding the HDMI-issue(s), it is exactly what I have been writing about in this thread a number of times. I am afraid, however, that the Digital Audio Engine Bryston will be using in the SP-3 will not include the perfect HDMI solution. If I am not mistaken, the DAE has a single HDMI receiver chip, i.e., it has to renegotiate the supported resolutions and the HDCP (copy protection) handshake (from source to the display device) everytime the source is switched. There are, as mentioned before, solutions coming up, that use a single receiver chip per input. This way, they can maintain a connection to each source device, even if it is not selected. When switching between the source devices most of the negotiating has already been done, since these solutions seem to buffer some information needed to make the connection. The downside, however, is that these 'perfect' solutions are very pricy. Therefore, if the SP-3 is not to be 2 - 3k more expensive, my guess is that Bryston SP-3 users just might have to live with longer switching times between HDMI inputs or buy an external HDMI switching unit, which offers the single receiver per input approach. I don't expect the software in the SP-3 to be able to 'fix' all HDMI imperfections...
Apple & HDMI (&BluRay!)... it's been one more reason for me not to buy Apple, since they withhold this important technology from their customers! So it had to be an Acer instead.
Cheers from my Japan trip from Osaka!
Markus
EDIT:
This is what Crestron claims about their switches:
HDMI switching has been a challenge; when systems don't work right, troubleshooting is nearly impossible. The problem could be at the source, the display, the cable, the switcher or an issue with HDCP authentication keys. Crestron HDMI switchers prevent frustrating switching delays with exclusive, built-in QuickSwitch HD? technology, which pre-authorizes HDCP keys and maintains a constant handshake between sources and the display for fast, uninterrupted HDMI switching.
And this is not more or less than one would expect from ANY HDMI switching device.
http://www.crestron.com/press_room/press_releases/show_release.asp?press_release_id=1413
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Thanks Markus - I will look into this - I thought it was on the video side that the problems existed and not and issue with the audio side?
james
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Thanks Markus - I will look into this - I thought it was on the video side that the problems existed and not and issue with the audio side?
james
Hi James,
with HDMI, audio and video cannot really be separated as far as negotiating the connection is concerned. The SP-3 would just be a part of the chain the audio AND the video signal has to pass and every step from source to the last receiver (in most cases the video display) has to be negotiated through before a signal is sent by the source and can be received by the audio system and the video display. Such is my understanding of the matter.
Cheers!
Markus
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Apple still doesn't support/offer HDMI in their products...
does anyone knows why?
al.
Not quite true. The AppleTV has an HDMI out on it.
Robert
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Thanks Markus - I will look into this - I thought it was on the video side that the problems existed and not and issue with the audio side?
james
Here's and interesting link to an article about handshake issues:
?Sep 02, 2009 11:40 ET
Key Digital? De-Mystifies HDMI Custom Installations with ?How to Make HDMI Plug and Play Instead of Plug and Pray? Article Written by Mike Tsinberg
MOUNT VERNON, N.Y. --(Business Wire)-- Sep 02, 2009 Key Digital Systems, Inc. the Experts in Digital Video Technology and Solutions have issued an informative article written by President and Company Founder, Mike Tsinberg. Mr. Tsinberg is the holder of 40 HDTV patents and founded Key Digital Systems in 1999 after a successful career with Phillips Research where he was in charge of the HDTV effort. Before making his contributions to DTV with Phillips, Mr. Tsinberg was the Head of Research and Development for Toshiba America and developed the world?s first DVD authoring systems.
Here is an excerpt from the article:
Many professional installers of AV equipment are calling HDMI Plug and Pray instead of Plug and Play. What is the reason behind such a degrading name? The digital connectivity predecessors to HDMI, DVI and VGA, were proven to be reliable Video connections. So what happened? There are a few clear factors. To begin, let?s break HDMI down into three basic parts HDMI = TMDS + EDID + HDCP
TMDS: The basic Video and Video/Audio delivery in HDMI is done via TMDS, also known as Transition Minimized Differential Signaling. TMDS is a technology for transmitting high-speed serial data via four twisted pairs and is also used by the DVI video interface, as well as other digital communication interfaces. TMDS works well. Recent developments in TMDS equalizer semiconductors allowed for reliable extension of HDMI cable up to 125 feet for 1080p/60 transmissions, and also enabled active HDMI to CAT5 Baluns to run up to 150 feet of CAT5/6 cables for this same resolution.
EDID: A data structure originally used in DVI and VGA displays to describe the display?s capabilities to a graphics card. Also known as Extended Display Identification Data. The rules of EDID are simple?
This article can be continued at http://www.keydigital.com/KnowledgeCenter_HDMIPlugNPlay_wp.html
Key Digital? Systems is a CES award-winning developer and manufacturer of leading-edge technology for HDTV applications, delivering total video systems solutions. The company manufactures a wide range of digital video processing and video signal distribution solutions marketed broadly to the HDTV community, such as digital video and audio processors, switchers, distribution amplifiers, cables, adapters, and more. ?For more information, visit us at www.keydigital.com.
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Apple still doesn't support/offer HDMI in their products...
does anyone knows why?
al.
Not quite true. The AppleTV has an HDMI out on it.
Robert
ok. cool, Robert. i didn't know that!
al.
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James,
what colour will the display be of the SP3 ? hopefully green.......?
al.
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James,
what colour will the display be of the SP3 ? hopefully green.......?
al.
Even though the pressure was on for Blue - it will be Green.
james
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Sneak preview of SP3 audio only prototype we will be showing next week at the CEDIA Show in Atlanta.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21704)
james
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21705)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21708)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21709)
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Looks very nice.....
Can we assume that audio-only implies HDMI pass-through with audio stripped?
Any room correction?
brucek
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Looks very nice.....
Can we assume that audio-only implies HDMI pass-through with audio stripped?
Any room correction?
brucek
Hi Bruce,
Correct audio is stripped off.
No room correction yet and if we do it will probably be limited to frequencies below 200 cycles.
Bruce I want to get the basic unit out there and then make decisions as we go as to what additional features make sense without compromising audio performance which will then be up-loadable as software updates through the Ethernet connection.
james
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21709)
Can't say I like the look of it :o
Keith
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No room correction yet and if we do it will probably be limited to frequencies below 200 cycles.
Certainly a good idea to provide it for the modal region. I use an external parametric equalizer for my sub with my SP2 to reduce modal peaks. It's a must.
I want to get the basic unit out there and then make decisions as we go as to what additional features make sense without compromising audio performance which will then be up-loadable as software updates through the Ethernet connection.
Makes sense.
Something that I've been rolling around in my head lately is the future requirement for a video scaler/de-interlacer/upconvertor. My second system uses a new Denon receiver that takes all analog and digital inputs and scales them to any resolution up to 1080p so that I only have a single HDMI cable from the receiver to the HDTV. This is a nice feature since I pass down my older equipment to this system and so I have a variety of 480i analog, 480p component video, 720p HDMI, etc, that requires scaling.
I wonder how long this will be a requirement though. How long before every piece of equipment we own has a 1080p output that we only want to switch and strip, leaving the fancy video processor idle.....
brucek
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How long before every piece of equipment we own has a 1080p output that we only want to switch and strip, leaving the fancy video processor idle.....
You'll want to upscale those to the new 2160p or, as in a recent TV commercial, a "million80p"! ;)
When will it ever stop?
Steve
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HDMI 1.3 itself is capable of 1440p. Not sure about what would need to be done to supporting hardware/software.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21709)
Hi James,
Just a quick question for the minimum height from the top of the SP3 for cooling reasons? My cabinets are tight with audio components, so I want to ensure a proper clearance height.
Also, can you release at this time the dimensions of the new SP3?
Here is my feedback on the front of the SP3, I would have liked to have seen the the logos for DTS/Dolby/etc... at the bottom of the face plate - looks more classy...
Regards,
Luigi
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Hi James,
That SP3.0 looks nice and the layout is very clean. :thumb:
--Levi
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21709)
:drool:
al.
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James,
for the "HDMI, Dolby, DTS HD , etc."
PLEASE consider printing silver logos on a silver face.
Use a different silver tone to the face.
(grey/silver on black as well)
This for me gives subtle style to the finish.
Looks very well made as always,
And audio stripping with video pass through I think is the best way forward these days.........
Most players / screens / Pj's have their own scaler systems, ad for the high end systems a seperate scaler is still often fitted.......
Andy.
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James,
for the "HDMI, Dolby, DTS HD , etc."
PLEASE consider printing silver logos on a silver face.
Use a different silver tone to the face.
(grey/silver on black as well)
This for me gives subtle style to the finish.
Well, i don't like the look of the printed logos either...
James, you should write them smaller (it will be more elegant), at the bottom and, well maybe enbossed on the face plate ?
Black is not very good looking...
Look at the very well designed faceplate of the MC12 (that i own) for ex...
(http://avblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/lexicon-mc12bhd_front.jpg)
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sorry, error...
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the feedback - we will be adjusting logos and sizes -this is just a prototype. The heighth is 3 rack spaces.
james
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Hi James,
Good luck at Cedia and good luck with the new product launch.
When do you expect that the sp3 will be available for purchase
Will a video upgrade be available for the incremental price difference between the models
Thanks
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Hi Warren
There is still a lot of software work ahead so hopefully things will come together soon. The video section we are looking at now and trying to decide the best way to impliment it.
james
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That Lexicon logo layout with grey silkscreen looks good. Think I'd like it even a little better without the oval sketched around the model name.
Steve
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Hi James,
To me the new SP-3 looks very "Bryston" which I think is the most important thing.
I agree with others that all the logos should be on the bottom of the faceplate.
I don't know if the flexibility of the sub crossover on the SP-3 has ever been discussed here.
Under this point of view I consider the SP-2 a step back compared to the SP-1.7 that regardless of the settings of the other speakers has the superior flexibility to allow the sub crossover to be set indipendently. I consider this a plus especially with musical dvd for a smoother and more musical sub rensponse.
I hope that under this point of view the SP-3 will regain that flexibility.
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Hi James!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21708)
Very nice, the power supply and the "noisy" video section reside in a physically separated compartment within the SP-3. I like that as it is consistent with the previous argumentation for the SP-2 having no video at all. ;)
As for the codec logos, making them a little less dominant on the face plate is a good idea!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21705)
Where do I see the fully descrete driver sections for the pre out that have been stacked in the original SP-1/SP-1.7/SP-2-design? You wouldn't be using integrated circuits in the analog signal path, would you?
If I interpret correctly what I see, for volume control, the SP-3 won't have an ALPS potentiometer anymore but a resistor network just like the B-100, am I right here?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21709)
I think, I will like the black version, maybe even in 19", the best.
Anxiously waiting for the German release and the SP-2 upgrade terms... ;)
Cheers from Germany!
Markus
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Hi Markus - NO IC's in the signal path and instead of stacking the Class A discrete operational amplifiers are placed on the main circuit board.
Yes volume control is a resitive ladder netwok similar to the B100.
james
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Looks nice (except for the tacky logos on the front). Any chance of a rear panel pic?
I would leave room correction out unless it will be very very good. Otherwise it will just add to the price while one could still get a better solution for $350:
http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/am8033_wen.pdf (http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/am8033_wen.pdf)
The Anti Mode 8300 has 24 FIR filters @ 1/82 octave resolution between 16-144 Hz and corrects both in the amplitude and time domain. If the Sp3.0 doesn't add this level of sophistication for the same price premium, there is no point really. Moreover, this technology moves so fast (even faster than HDMI standards :lol:) that it may be a good idea to leave it out all together.
DSP power would instead be better allocated on superior speaker and bass management, for example on par with something like an XTA DP448:
http://www.xta.uk.com/pdfs/XTA_4SERIES_BRO.pdf
What most processor lack today is a well thought out speaker management system, including precision time alignement/delay on each output (increments of 0.325 microseconds), different and independent crossover filters (order/slope, characteristics, linear/minimum phase etc), and total flexibility for routing of bass and other frequency bands. Such a simple thing as integrating a subwoofer in a 2.1 configuration for stereo listening is one such thing that audio companies seldom get right in their processors.
Digital output for each channel remains a dream I guess.. probably due to DMR issues?
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James, are you still considering an addon box for SP2 owners, or, is a trade program from the SP2 to SP3 more likely.
Thanks
-
James, are you still considering an addon box for SP2 owners, or, is a trade program from the SP2 to SP3 more likely.
Thanks
Hi Joey,
Still looking at both options.
james
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Looks nice (except for the tacky logos on the front). Any chance of a rear panel pic?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21759)
Audio only version.
james
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James, what are all the connectors on the back for? I tried to blow up he picture but it was blurry. I guess to the right of the balanced outs are two balanced bypass inputs? I can see on the far right at the bottom are toslink inputs and triggers? Above the toslinks are the USB, RS232 and ethernet connectors? Above the RCA multi-channel inputs in the middle bottom are 4 pairs of RCAs labeled "cbl/sat," "dvd,"cd,"tuner?" Are all those configurable as 2-channel bypass? I guess the RCAs to the right of those and the XLRs below that are digital inputs?
Thanks
-
Hi James
Does the SP-3 have an USB imput to decode music stored on an hard drive ?
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Three rack-spaces, top rack-space houses dual power supplies and audio/video HDMI switching.
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232? 2 inputs, Ethernet ? 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic ? 1 Input, Headphone ?1 Stereo Input
Digital Inputs ? 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In ? 1 Video Out
2- S Video In ? 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In ? 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In ? 2 HDMI Out
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I asked a simple question. It looks like that you are throwing me the whole nine yards of connections because you didn't appreciated. Whatever.
I take this as a yes.................................... ...........
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I asked a simple question. It looks like that you are throwing me the whole nine yards of connections because you didn't appreciated. Whatever.
I take this as a yes.................................... ...........
Hi Alex,
Yes the posts above yours had some questions as well so I thought I would try and give everyone the 'whole nine yards' as you say.
james
PS -you seem to have a nice 'Maggie' system there.
james
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Hi James,
I see now. Sorry for the missunderstanding.
Yes, thank you. My Maggie/Bryston/MIT system is nicely balanced and (now)sounds really good.
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Hi James
Are you offering that SP3.0 in a 240 volt version?
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Three rack-spaces, top rack-space houses dual power supplies and audio/video HDMI switching.
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232? 2 inputs, Ethernet ? 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic ? 1 Input, Headphone ?1 Stereo Input
Digital Inputs ? 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In ? 1 Video Out
2- S Video In ? 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In ? 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In ? 2 HDMI Out
James, in the SP 1.7, the multi-channel analog bypass vs. the 2 channel bypass are not identical. In the SP3 in 7.1 single ended bypass, is the left and right channel of the 7.1 single ended bypass identical to the stereo single ended bypass? I'm asking as I might have use for an extra single ended bypass and I guess my choices would be to just use the single ended 7.1 channel bypass for the universal player vs. using the 7.1 channel input and the stereo input for 2-channel or I guess getting an RCA to balanced adapter and use the 2nd balanced input.
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Hi James
Are you offering that SP3.0 in a 240 volt version?
Hi werd
240/60 Hz for USA you mean rather than 230/50Hz for overseas?
james
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Three rack-spaces, top rack-space houses dual power supplies and audio/video HDMI switching.
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232? 2 inputs, Ethernet ? 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic ? 1 Input, Headphone ?1 Stereo Input
Digital Inputs ? 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In ? 1 Video Out
2- S Video In ? 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In ? 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In ? 2 HDMI Out
James, in the SP 1.7, the multi-channel analog bypass vs. the 2 channel bypass are not identical. In the SP3 in 7.1 single ended bypass, is the left and right channel of the 7.1 single ended bypass identical to the stereo single ended bypass? I'm asking as I might have use for an extra single ended bypass and I guess my choices would be to just use the single ended 7.1 channel bypass for the universal player vs. using the 7.1 channel input and the stereo input for 2-channel or I guess getting an RCA to balanced adapter and use the 2nd balanced input.
Hi Phil,
I will find out.
james
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Hi James
Are you offering that SP3.0 in a 240 volt version?
Hi werd
240/60 Hz for USA you mean rather than 230/50Hz for overseas?
james
Yes, the 240/60hz Northamerican. Ive seen other pre's around with that config and was wandering if that was an option with your new SP 3.0?
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Three rack-spaces, top rack-space houses dual power supplies and audio/video HDMI switching.
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232? 2 inputs, Ethernet ? 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic ? 1 Input, Headphone ?1 Stereo Input
Digital Inputs ? 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In ? 1 Video Out
2- S Video In ? 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In ? 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In ? 2 HDMI Out
James, in the SP 1.7, the multi-channel analog bypass vs. the 2 channel bypass are not identical. In the SP3 in 7.1 single ended bypass, is the left and right channel of the 7.1 single ended bypass identical to the stereo single ended bypass? I'm asking as I might have use for an extra single ended bypass and I guess my choices would be to just use the single ended 7.1 channel bypass for the universal player vs. using the 7.1 channel input and the stereo input for 2-channel or I guess getting an RCA to balanced adapter and use the 2nd balanced input.
Hi Phil,
I will find out.
james
7.1ch Bypass has the same signal path as 2ch Bypass.
james
-
[/quote]
7.1ch Bypass has the same signal path as 2ch Bypass.
james
[/quote]
I would then assume that the 7.1ch Bypass has no level controls for the channels?
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Hi James,
The new design looks nice and I would agree with others about the logos.
Another thing you might consider is, instead of labeling the inputs on the front as CD, Tape, DVD, it would be nice to have them just as Input 1, Input 2 , and so on. IF possible that would allow the user to rename the input in the setup for front panel screen or onscreen display. I know that most hi end A/V processors don't do this but is sure would be nice.
Carl
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Hi James,
The new design looks nice and I would agree with others about the logos.
Another thing you might consider is, instead of labeling the inputs on the front as CD, Tape, DVD, it would be nice to have them just as Input 1, Input 2 , and so on. IF possible that would allow the user to rename the input in the setup for front panel screen or onscreen display. I know that most hi end A/V processors don't do this but is sure would be nice.
Carl
I hear what you are saying but you still have to remember what you have on input 1 or input 2. In a secondary basement system where the rack recesses into the wall to the unfinished chart, I have a cheat sheet (since I don't use the system tons) of what is on each input). I guess they have labeled stuff as balanced 1, balanced 2, etc. and it might get confusing to sum. Perhaps anal 1 (short for analog :lol:), anal 2, etc., would be less confusing. I don't mind the way they have it as I have stuff like way now with the SP 1.7. In the VCR input, I have the DVD recorder. I have the LDS player in aux. When I had the CD recorder in the system (I moved it to the basement) it was in the tape input. The HDTV tuner in is the TV input and since I don't need the associated analog inputs I either cap them with Cardas caps or I've had an output from the bedroom system on the other side of the wall (I won't need that with the SP3 as I already havev HDMI cables going each way along with digital cables so the the digital out of the SP3 will be connected to the Marantz SR6300 in the bedroom system and the other side of the wall and vice versa).
The way they have it now and from what James has indicated from his recent post and the multi-channel input is that I'll just have the universal player going into the multi-channel input and have its HDMI connected to the SP3. I won't need the analog DVD input. I'm going to run my BCD-1 into one of the balanced inputs and I have a modded tuner I'll run into the single ended bypass (probably thru the Carver C-9 hologram unit for fun). I don't really have that much need for additional analog inputs, especially those that are not bypass. In the days when I used the Pioneer Elite CD recorder (sits in the basement system now) for making a CD (for the car) from a single layer SACD using the tape input analog ins and outs, I had a bit more use for them. I use a Zune and the PC now to make things and with the volume of music I can fit on an iPod or Zune for the car, I can live w/o something on a single layer SACD and if I really needed it, I still have the CD recorder.
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Phil,
Obviously you have run into the same problem I have :lol:. It's not a case of not remembering what went where but as formats change it would be more logical, :o in my opinion, to perhaps have it as input.
On most upscale equipment it is labeled as such. Coax is usually 1,2,3,4, Toslink is usually 1,2, video in and out follows the same .
Carl
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James, are you still considering an addon box for SP2 owners, or, is a trade program from the SP2 to SP3 more likely.
Thanks
Hi Joey,
Still looking at both options.
james
James,
(just to make the nerve breaking perfect...)
let's say that both options are available. do SP2 owners HAVE to go with the extra box or do we have a chance for a trade in?
i would prefer a trade in...
al.
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James, are you still considering an addon box for SP2 owners, or, is a trade program from the SP2 to SP3 more likely.
Thanks
Hi Joey,
Still looking at both options.
james
James,
(just to make the nerve breaking perfect...)
let's say that both options are available. do SP2 owners HAVE to go with the extra box or do we have a chance for a trade in?
i would prefer a trade in...
al.
Hi Al,
I am not sure - I guess it will come down to the cost of the different options for each customer.
james
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Phil,
Obviously you have run into the same problem I have :lol:. It's not a case of not remembering what went where but as formats change it would be more logical, :o in my opinion, to perhaps have it as input.
On most upscale equipment it is labeled as such. Coax is usually 1,2,3,4, Toslink is usually 1,2, video in and out follows the same .
Carl
Carl, I hear and agree. My old Sony 444ES rec'r I had in the bedroom had a labeling provision. It now is hooked to the computer with white indoor/outdoor speakers and a 50W powered sub (I don't use the PC sound much - the MAC G5 tower as a built in speaker). My Marantz SR6300 rec'r in the bedroom now has a labeling provision which I find very helpful. Over the course of time as I've had universal remotes go bad, I've switched to Harmony. I have a Harmony One in the main system (had Prontos there previously that I got free with VISA points) and basically it goes by activity. If I want to play an SACD from the universal I have to set-up an additional activity that won't turn the projector on. The activity defines the components used and the input on the pre/pro. My 10+ yr. old Pronto 2000, which is currently in the basement system, is on its way out. As soon as I end up with the SP3 and switch stuff around, I'll probably get another Harmony (perhaps the new 700 that just was announced) so I don't have to think about what is plugged into what as much. For the stuff I use most of the time I don't think about it (e.g. if I'm watching TV in the basement which is mainly what the system is for since the main room has too much light during the day), but if I go to play something through the DAC I have down there I have to think about where it is hooked to. The bedroom system is easier as the Marantz SR6300 has labels and the Pronto Neo I have is fine.
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James,
Will the preamp be good enough to use exclusively with 28B-SST? I mean, has it been a design goal to be on par or a good match SQ wise with even the best of your power amp offerings? Or is a good 2-channel preamp (with HT bypass obviously) still recommended for ultimate high fidelity?
If so, I may need to eBay my present preamp... :wink:
... and is this a truly balanced/differential design? If not, how is the XLR output signal derived? Transformers?
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FYI. There is a Youtube video on the AVS forum which shows Bryston at Ceida. A VP of Bryston shows the SP 3 and gives an availability of "Spring 2010".
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1178884 :banghead: :banghead:
Hopefully that is for the video version and the audio version will be out earlier.
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I'm wondering if the second HDMI output could be used in the second zone for independant video switching from the main zone?
Thanks,
David
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Mr. Tanner - can you give us what the approximate trade-in value will be for SP 1.7 when the SP 3.0 is purchased? thanks
Todd
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Mr. Tanner - can you give us what the approximate trade-in value will be for SP 1.7 when the SP 3.0 is purchased? thanks
Todd
Hi Todd,
At this point I do not know as we have not got a final cost on the SP3 yet and we are looking at ways to adapt the HD technology to current SP1.7's/SP2's to allow for HD Audio upgrades at a lower costs than the trade in option.
james
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but James...we want a SP3. please...
al.
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James
Sounds like a lot of work to upgrade the unit to HDMI inputs, audio processing for new formats, and then video processing too? Hard to believe you can fit that all in sp1.7/2 - will it sound equivalent to sp3?
todd
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James
Sounds like a lot of work to upgrade the unit to HDMI inputs, audio processing for new formats, and then video processing too? Hard to believe you can fit that all in sp1.7/2 - will it sound equivalent to sp3?
todd
Hi Todd,
Yes it is a lot of work and I assume we will only offer two HDMI inputs on the upgrade option. Video will not be an option as it is not part of the SP1.7 or SP2. The upgrade for the SP1 and SP2 will just allow for HDMI HD Audio playback.
As for sound I am not sure as I have not been able to listen to an SP3 yet.
james
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James
Sounds like a lot of work to upgrade the unit to HDMI inputs, audio processing for new formats, and then video processing too? Hard to believe you can fit that all in sp1.7/2 - will it sound equivalent to sp3?
todd
Hi Todd,
Yes it is a lot of work and I assume we will only offer two HDMI inputs on the upgrade option. Video will not be an option as it is not part of the SP1.7 or SP2. The upgrade for the SP1 and SP2 will just allow for HDMI HD Audio playback.
As for sound I am not sure as I have not been able to listen to an SP3 yet.
james
It would be great if one of the options was to be able to use the MPS-2 external power supply on the SP 1.7 8)
I've actually entertained the thought of getting a 'good' Blu-Ray player to feed the 1.7 with 5.1 analogue in just to extend the service life of the SP 1.7.
Keith
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It would be great if one of the options was to be able to use the MPS-2 external power supply on the SP 1.7 8)
I've actually entertained the thought of getting a 'good' Blu-Ray player to feed the 1.7 with 5.1 analogue in just to extend the service life of the SP 1.7.
Keith
Hey Keith, that's exactly my setup. I have a good Blu-Ray player (Pioneer BDP-09FD aka BDP-LX91) that decodes HD and outputs to analog 5.1 channel to my SP 1.7.
--Levi
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It would be great if one of the options was to be able to use the MPS-2 external power supply on the SP 1.7 8)
I've actually entertained the thought of getting a 'good' Blu-Ray player to feed the 1.7 with 5.1 analogue in just to extend the service life of the SP 1.7.
Keith
Hey Keith, that's exactly my setup. I have a good Blu-Ray player (Pioneer BDP-09FD aka BDP-LX91) that decodes HD and outputs to analog 5.1 channel to my SP 1.7.
--Levi
That never even dawned on me until about 2 days ago.........definitely something I'm going to be checking out.
Keith
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I have the new Oppo Bluray which decodes the new formats. I then send it to 1.7 via analog for 5.1 sound. Sounds fantastic. And Oppo also decodes SACD. All for about 500 bucks.
But i want 7.1 sound and to have Bryston do the decoding!!!!
todd
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Hey Keith, that's exactly my setup. I have a good Blu-Ray player (Pioneer BDP-09FD aka BDP-LX91) that decodes HD and outputs to analog 5.1 channel to my SP 1.7.
--Levi
Well, tried SP2 + BDP-LX91 on analog vs MC12 + BDP-LX91 on analog... for me the winner is the Lexicon hands up !
Staying analog is good, but upsampling analog to 192/24 with the MC12... is SO MUCH powerfull !
Best results ever heard.
PS : note that most movies on Blu-ray will feature only 48/24...
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Nice BDP-LX91 player! You must be in Europe.
Did you compare the Lexicon pass-thru against Bryston? Pass-thru meaning no processing or upsampling involved. :)
I think the sound through HDMI processing will have the ultimate and speed and sound quality. Which is what we hope the SP3 will accomplish.
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I believe the SP3 will be much more accurate to what we can really expect from HD audio.
The SP2 is a great pre but compared to the powerful MC12 it just can't compete at the same level on HT.
I find the SP2 to be better on the 2ch analog part on the other end.
That's why i seek a 2ch pre to add to my system (probably a ML 26S or 380).
I didn't tried the MC12 on "pure" analog mch because i don't see the point, the MC12 is one of the faster calculator i have ever heard (5 DSP chips 32 bit inside !) and it gives you the possibility to digitalize the analog 5.1 in. It works just wonderfully (once you're back in digital... you can process whatever you want at 96/24, including EQ, bass management, levels, distances, 7.1 processing + all DSP aso and then at the end you get a final upsampling at 192/24).
It's just :o
I've had an MC8 lended and tried it versus the SP2 on 5.1 analog (well you can force the MC8 to duplicate sides in order to obtain 7.1 out... not fair for the SP2 but that's a point for the Lex).
I found the MC8 to be more revelant than the SP2 on the mch analog part, using HD audio.
Even if i don't find the MC8 to be an interesting pre (no EQ, no upsampling available + no A/D possible with the analog 5.1 in...), if anybody is interested by Lexicon... go for a MC12V5EQ (no HDMI needed) or stay with what you have, i will say :wink:
PS : yes, Europe -> France (Paris), so i get a LX91
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Excellent MOZ! :thumb:
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i was under the impression high resolution audio was available via a bluray players analogue audio outputs there are many available with 7 channel analogue outputs. in other words you dont need hdmi although would have to use the players dac. if your dealing with an uncompressed 192 24 signal from source this might not be a big deal. please correct me if wrong as this was my intended approach to obtaining high resolution audio.
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You are correct. By merely using the player's decoder, you can listen to high resolution audio. However, you have to have a good Blu-ray player to match the processing prowess of a good HDMI proc. :)
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Hi Folks,
Listening this weekend to the SP3 in 7.1 passthrough with a Panasonic and Pioneer BlueRay players.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=23080)
james
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James,would be nice to hear thoughts about the 3.0 come monday.
Has to great fun auditioning new gear :thumb:.
She looks very nice indeed.
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Really looking forward to hearing about it James!
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It's monday night.................................. ..............
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Hi Guys,
Well so far I'm pretty happy. Things are sounding very good indeed. The sounstage is excellent and the tonal balance is very flat. The 5.1 passthrough on the Panasonic is not all I would have hoped for so I am waiting to try the Pioneer Elite BluRay player before I offer final comment on that front.
On the 2-channel analog passthrough using the BDA-1 and BCD-1 I thought the BP26 had a slight edge especially in the very low frequencies but we have some ideas to remedy that.
So all in all I think it's time to move forward and look at the digital performance side.
james
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Any word on availability yet? :bounce:
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James
Sounds like a lot of work to upgrade the unit to HDMI inputs, audio processing for new formats, and then video processing too? Hard to believe you can fit that all in sp1.7/2 - will it sound equivalent to sp3?
todd
Hi Todd,
Yes it is a lot of work and I assume we will only offer two HDMI inputs on the upgrade option. Video will not be an option as it is not part of the SP1.7 or SP2. The upgrade for the SP1 and SP2 will just allow for HDMI HD Audio playback.
As for sound I am not sure as I have not been able to listen to an SP3 yet.
james
I've got an SP1 sitting in it's box while I play with the Denon Pro HDMI-Pre/Pro with Blu-Ray 'HD' audio, but, with the limits* of HDMI I really only need two HDMI (audio) inputs so the 'add-on' sounds like a good deal for me, as long as it would pass-through video.
* So, what I would like to do is be able to watch a TV show on my TiVo (or other STB) hooked up through HDMI but, be able to listen to streaming audio (also from HDMI with my AppleTV) with only one HDMI cable from the Pre/Pro to my Plasma (and one HDMI from my various video components). But, so far digging through the various Pre/Pro (w/ HDMI audio) manuals I have not found a way to separate video from audio. I could do this with my 'old' analog 6.1 Yamaha receiver, but, with stupid DRM (aka HDCP) I can only do one thing at a time. With the mention of more 'matrix' like audio/video separation with the SP3 I was wondering if it was capable of doing this? i.e. watching an HDMI video source, but playing a different audio source. Currently the only way, with my current setup, is using the '7.1' analog inputs, which is OK for SACD but (and have most other HDMI direct to my Plasma). A real test would be able to do 'The Dark Side of Oz' (aka watch "The Wizard of Oz" with Pink Floyd's "The Dark Side of the Moon" as a soundtrack). I now see why the installers are starting to go back to component video as it's still much more flexible.
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Hi Guys,
Well so far I'm pretty happy. Things are sounding very good indeed. The sounstage is excellent and the tonal balance is very flat. The 5.1 passthrough on the Panasonic is not all I would have hoped for so I am waiting to try the Pioneer Elite BluRay player before I offer final comment on that front.
Hi James,
I would recommend you try a Denon BluRay player with SACD/DVD-Audio for another comparison of SP3's audio performance...
Also, is there any talk about Bryston making an universal BluRay player in the future??? :P
Regards,
Luigi
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" Also, is there any talk about Bryston making an universal BluRay player in the future???"
This is a fantastic question. aa
Ayre Acoustics is about to release their first-ever Universal Blu-ray player called the DX-5. It is basically their C5xeMP universal player combined with blu-ray.
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" Also, is there any talk about Bryston making an universal BluRay player in the future???"
This is a fantastic question. aa
Ayre Acoustics is about to release their first-ever Universal Blu-ray player called the DX-5. It is basically their C5xeMP universal player combined with blu-ray.
No - it is actually a gutted Oppo BDP-83 that keeps the core of the processors with tons of modifications - See C. Hansen's description:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1181755
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ok, i didn't see that post on it. should be interesting when it comes out. Thanks Phil.
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ok, i didn't see that post on it. should be interesting when it comes out. Thanks Phil.
? - it is post number 11 and long and starts out - "Well, first of all you have to remember that we don't have to pay $500 for the unit. We buy in quantity, so Oppo gives us the spectacular discounted price of (make sure you are sitting down, please!) $400.
Then to make it an Ayre, we dismantle it completely and recycle everything except the main PCB (with the video decoder, ABT scaler chip, and HDMI transmitter), the transport mechanism, the VFD display, and the remote control handset."
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In their December 2009 issue, The Absolute Sound had this to say about the SP3 in their CEDIA EXPO 2009 article:
For A/V enthusiasts with TAS-like tastes, the "holy grail" would be an A/V controller with serious audiophile-grade credentials, and the Canadian firm Bryston aims to give them exactly that in the form of its new SP3 A/V controller. The SP3 starts life as a very serious multichannel audio preamplifier based on discrete Class A op-amps, whose overall sound quality is said to be equivalent to Bryston's BP26 stereo preamplifier. Customers can order the SP3 in an audio-only form ($9500) or with an optional video board that adds HDMI inputs (raising the price to $11,950). Build-quality in the prototype I saw was exceptional as was overall attention to detail. For example, the aforementioned video board is, in the interest of preserving sound quality, both physically and electronically isolated from the audio sections of the controller. The SP3 will become available in Q1, 2010.
They also showed a few pictures.
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hi, James!
talking about upgrades: let's say that SP2 owners will keep their chassis with certain upgrades (hdmi in/out etc.).
will the SP2 be renamed for example into SP2.5 or something like that?
al.
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hi, James!
talking about upgrades: let's say that SP2 owners will keep their chassis with certain upgrades (hdmi in/out etc.).
will the SP2 be renamed for example into SP2.5 or something like that?
al.
I think this was addressed already. The last that James posted he indicated either a trade-in towards an SP3 or an outboard box to use with an SP2. Probably is several pages back.
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ok, Phil. thanks.
...and i still hope that it will be a SP3 :D
al.
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ok, Phil. thanks.
...and i still hope that it will be a SP3 :D
al.
I have also run into this site which has a $219 device -
http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDMI-1.3-Audio-De-Embedder-p-17801.html
I have no idea as to its performance but it is something that I could consider in my basement system. I have a PS3 down there and an old Marantz 7300 OSE (orig. spec. ed.) rec'r with no HDMI. I have an HDMI rec'r in the bedroom system (Marantz SR6300) and at that price point it could be a worthwhile acquisition for a system with no HDMI and no analog outs from a Blu-Ray player.
I am anxiously awaiting the SP3 so I can evaluate it vs. the SP1.7 (or SP2 which should be the same in the analog section) as an analog preamp and determine what the trade-in allowance might be and whether it is something I want to do. With probably 14 years left (give or take a bit) of warranty on my SP1.7, and it is likely I may prefer Blu-Ray from the analog outs of my Modwright Oppo BDP-83 (I have 4 Rel subs in the main system anyway), it may well boil down to performance as an analog premap. It will be nice to have the convenience of HDMI (I have a switch now which probably will never be used for more than a Blu-Ray player and an HD TV tuner in the main system) which would give me the ability to connect the main system to the bedroom system on the other side of the wall in a more convenient fashion. It is also something that is not a necessity for just that convenience.
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Hi James,
Wow things have moved along since I last visited this thread. The Ayre Bluray player above supports the open standard HDMI CEC ARC feature that I mentioned much earlier on in this thread. Is HDMI "Audio Rate Control" support planned for the SP3?
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Hi James,
Wow things have moved along since I last visited this thread. The Ayre Bluray player above supports the open standard HDMI CEC ARC feature that I mentioned much earlier on in this thread. Is HDMI "Audio Rate Control" support planned for the SP3?
Hi - Not sure on that one - will check.
james
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Forgot to ask..... Is DSD over HDMI support present?
BTW: Like the chassis but add one more vote for smaller logos.
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Forgot to ask..... Is DSD over HDMI support present?
BTW: Like the chassis but add one more vote for smaller logos.
No DSD but we are moving the logos to the top of the chassis cover.
james
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Forgot to ask..... Is DSD over HDMI support present?
BTW: Like the chassis but add one more vote for smaller logos.
No DSD but we are moving the logos to the top of the chassis cover.
james
I like that. There are so many certifications these days some audio/video equipment looks like it came from a tatoo parlor after it went in drunk :green:
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Forgot to ask..... Is DSD over HDMI support present?
BTW: Like the chassis but add one more vote for smaller logos.
No DSD but we are moving the logos to the top of the chassis cover.
james
I like that. There are so many certifications these days some audio/video equipment looks like it came from a tatoo parlor after it went in drunk :green:
well said :thumb:.
al.
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James - this thread is going for quite awhile and there have been changes along the way. Back in August 2008 you indicated the SP 3.0 will reclock the signal. Can you confirm this is still the case? Can you give us further information on the DAC performance of the SP 3.0 vs. how something like the BP26DA or the outboard DAC works now? thanks
"
Posts: 4708
The Demo is Everything!
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Re: SP 3.0?
? Reply #198 on: 25 Aug 2008, 12:32 AM ?
Quote
Quote from: James Tanner on 24 Aug 2008, 07:31 PM
Quote from: nicolasb on 24 Aug 2008, 07:08 PM
James,
Any word yet on whether the SP3 will allow the reclocking of incoming audio signals to remove jitter (perhaps in the same way as a BP26DA does)?
Not sure on that one - will ask engineering.
james
Hi nicolasb,
Engineering tells me yes the new SP3 will resample the input.
james"
Logged
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Q1 2010 only days away.........
Are we there yet :drool:
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Q1 2010 only days away.........
Are we there yet :drool:
There's a video on You Tube that says April
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Here's the link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RS-_q2Zlh4
James, any word yet on my previous question about the DAC configuration and performance in the SP3?
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Here's the link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RS-_q2Zlh4
James, any word yet on my previous question about the DAC configuration and performance in the SP3?
Hi Phil,
We are still playing with options on the digital side.
james
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Happy new year all,
James, any chance you'll be able to get HDMI 1.4 in the new SP3 before it goes out ?
Or think about a possible way to get it upgraded after (when hardware will be available) ?
MOZ
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I'm sure James will officially answer but at this point the chips and hardware are in such an early stage, I'm not sure anyone can really give an answer as to what can be adapted or modified down the road. It's likely a question that perhaps in a year there will be more data about. Here's some info about HDMI 1.4:
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi14.html
“Also, as new HDMI 1.4 devices come out, they will continue to be compatible with all your current HDMI 1.3 and older devices and cables. HDMI will continue to be backward compatible.
The HDMI 1.4 specification will offer the following enhanced functionalities:
HDMI Ethernet Channel: The HDMI 1.4 specification will add a data channel to the HDMI cable and will enable high-speed bi-directional communication. Connected devices that include this feature will be able to send and receive data via 100 Mb/sec Ethernet, making them instantly ready for any IP-based application.
The HDMI Ethernet Channel will allow an Internet-enabled HDMI device to share its Internet connection with other HDMI devices without the need for a separate Ethernet cable. The new feature will also provide the connection platform to allow HDMI-enabled devices to share content between devices.
Audio Return Channel: The new specification will add an Audio Return Channel that will reduce the number of cables required to deliver audio upstream for processing and playback. In cases where HDTVs are directly receiving audio and video content, this new Audio Return Channel allows the HDTV to send the audio stream to the A/V receiver over the HDMI cable, eliminating the need for an extra cable.
3D Over HDMI: The 1.4 version of the specification will define common 3D formats and resolutions for HDMI-enabled devices. The specification will standardize the input/output portion of the home 3D system and will specify up to dual-stream 1080p resolution.
4K x 2K Resolution Support: The new specification will enable HDMI devices to support high-definition (HD) resolutions four times beyond the resolution of 1080p. Support for 4K x 2K will allow the HDMI interface to transmit content at the same resolution as many digital theaters. Formats supported include and 3840x2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and 4096x2160 24Hz
Expanded Support For Color Spaces: HDMI technology now supports color spaces designed specifically for digital still cameras. By supporting sYCC601, Adobe RGB and AdobeYCC601, HDMI-enabled display devices will be capable of reproducing more accurate life-like colors when connected to a digital still camera.
Micro HDMI Connector: The Micro HDMI Connector is a significantly smaller 19-pin connector that supports up to 1080p resolutions for portable devices. This new connector is approximately 50% smaller than the size of the existing HDMI Mini Connector.
Automotive Connection System: The Automotive Connection System is a cabling specification designed to be used as the basis for in-vehicle HD content distribution. The HDMI 1.4 specification will provide a solution designed to meet the rigors and environmental issues commonly found in automobiles, such as heat, vibration and noise. Using the Automotive Connection System, automobile manufactures will now have a viable solution for distributing HD content within the car.
“The HDMI specification continues to add functionality as the consumer electronics and PC industries build products that enhance the consumer’s HD experience,” said Steve Venuti, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC. “The 1.4 specification will support some of the most exciting and powerful near-term innovations such as Ethernet connectivity and 3D formats. Additionally we are going to broaden our solution by providing a smaller connector for portable devices and a connection system specified for automobiles, as we see both more and different devices adopting the HDMI technology.“
Consumers will also see new HDMI cables introduced to the market. In order to take advantage of the HDMI Ethernet Channel, consumers will need to purchase either a Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet, or a High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet. Consumers connecting an external device to an in-vehicle HDMI-enabled HD system will need the new Automotive HDMI cable. Consumers can expect to see new HDMI 1.4 cables introduced to the market when new HDMI 1.4 devices are available.”
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By the way, Silicon Image will have an exhibit at CES and part of it will deal with HDMI 1.4. So perhaps after that there will be more news about products which may be available down the road - http://www.siliconimage.com/ces2010.aspx
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Hi Phil A,
My point being only "if possible" think about it and don't get on the market with an already outdated product (or with no solution to prevent it)...
We've been told AVATAR Blu-ray release will come with 3D, i know there should be some delay, but it will be there soon or later.
And when everybody is going to "fire" it's HDMI 1.4 pre-pro, the marketing campaigns will kill everybody else (as HD kind of did, see tons of excellent pre on sale because they just don't "do HD") !
I've heard Denon was already on it's way to 1.4 and was planning a all new batch of products soon...
JVC projectors are on their way to 4K aso...
I really believe Bryston should think a way to sort out this 1.4 thing and then let it know to people in order to prevent it's sales...
My 2 cts :?
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Hi Phil A,
My point being only "if possible" think about it and don't get on the market with an already outdated product (or with no solution to prevent it)...
We've been told AVATAR Blu-ray release will come with 3D, i know there should be some delay, but it will be there soon or later.
And when everybody is going to "fire" it's HDMI 1.4 pre-pro, the marketing campaigns will kill everybody else (as HD kind of did, see tons of excellent pre on sale because they just don't "do HD") !
I've heard Denon was already on it's way to 1.4 and was planning a all new batch of products soon...
JVC projectors are on their way to 4K aso...
I really believe Bryston should think a way to sort out this 1.4 thing and then let it know to people in order to prevent it's sales...
My 2 cts :?
I don't disagree. Bryston is not a mass market company and just look at the timing with HDMI 1.3 not here yet. Just trying to be realistic. I don't think anyone can really answer at this point if it will realistically feasible to upgrade the components easily. Just again being realistic in what is the current state of the market. I asked last year if it were possible to get a BP26 with home theater bypass and James responded it would take a product re-design. My thought in asking the question was to have a situation where I could live with Bryston 2-channel and perhaps see who else might be able to get a product to market faster for movie viewing. I don't hate multi-channel music, but being more of a 2-channel person, I'd be willing to live with BP26 sound for 2-channel. I actually think even if 3D makes some inroads into the home, it is going to be a good 5 years before it is ready for more mass market acceptance. If it makes inroads, it will certainly be about 3 years before we start to see it in more moderately priced set-ups. I'd imagine we'll see it in flagship type products next year and then if it takes off a bit it will trickle down.
I saw Avatar in 3D last night. Obviously I have not compared it to 2D. I can live w/o 3D in the home and don't mind going out to the theater for something different. I don't go out to the theater much since often when you go you don't necessarily view it in a manner that is superior audio or video wise (at least not for me), sometimes you don't get your first choice (I went to try to see Avatar the night before and it was sold out for the 10:30 PM show) and have to put up with noise, can't pause the movie and sometimes get unwanted noise. Before Avatar, I went to see Up in 3D six months before that and before that I was probably not in a theater in a couple of years.
So I guess in summary of what I am trying to say, I am not sure that anyone can really answer what chips/boards will be out in the future and how they will interface with the digital boards of a current product. If I go with the SP3, I'd never consider the video processing option for that reason. Expensive, and it may be possible down the road to still use the SP3 for HDMI audio and have HDMI 1.4 going to the display. I'm in the market for a new bedroom TV (not that i am desperate as I have a 42 inch 1080p set now) and I'm not going to hold my breath and/or pay a premium for a secondary system I watch a couple of movies a year on. The average person (not an enthusiast) is certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon early either. At some point, I can always rotate the 1080p projector I have in the main system to the basement and replace the 720p one I have down there and consider what is newer for the main system. With the state of HDMI 1.3 already in pre/pros and receivers from other manufacturers vs. Bryston, I think it is more realistic until HDMI 1.4 is more established (if it gets there) for a non-mass market company to start R&D. If one comes from Bryston, CES of 2012 is probably what one can realistically expect.
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Well, after all, it shouldn't be "that bad" to have only 1.3 (even if Lexicon will probably shoot its new plateform on 1.4 !)...
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/HDMI/3D/HDMI_1.3_Will_Support_3D_After_All/4002
It’s not just the PS3 though, that update will also apply to any BD-Live capable Blu-ray player.
But don't tell it's not possible to have a solution, see what Krell can do with their "not on the sell" Blu-ray player :
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2010/01/krell_industries_introduces_first_bluray_player.php
Upgradeable to HDMI 1.4
The Evolution 555 is fully HDMI 1.3 compliant but with a direct fix on the future, the Evolution 555 includes an upgrade path to the future that makes it quite literally the most advanced and “future-ready” source component. Already equipped with an HDMI 1.4 transmitter, the Sigma VXP video processor is located on a plug-in card for in-field upgrade to HDMI 1.4 with full support for 3D, 4K x 2K Resolution Support, and HDMI Ethernet Channel.
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I asked last year if it were possible to get a BP26 with home theater bypass and James responded it would take a product re-design
Regarding this question, i love Bryston (had SP1.7, SP2, have BCD-1, 4BSST2 and 9BSST2...) but, i changed to a couple MC12 V5EQ + Mark Levinson N.380S (for 2ch) recently and there's no way a BP26 can sound as good as this wonderful 380S.
It has a passthrough for HT and you should give it a look/ear... :roll:
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Hi MOZ,
What is the retail price of Mark Levinson N.380S as new?
Daniel
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Hi Moz,
I found it ML380S was 6500$ as Bryston BP-25MC was 2995$.
Bear in mind that this was the price of BP-25 with MC and MM, not stand alone.
Twice as much and the measurements published by Stereophile show similar results.
I know Mark Levinson are state of engineering, but at high price.
If you want something for what Mark Levinson was famous, look for the new company of Mr.Levinson-Daniel Hertz.
Daniel
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there's no way a BP26 can sound as good as this wonderful 380S.
Way.
Steve
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Hi Moz,
I found it ML380S was 6500$ as Bryston BP-25MC was 2995$.
Bear in mind that this was the price of BP-25 with MC and MM, not stand alone.
Twice as much and the measurements published by Stereophile show similar results.
I know Mark Levinson are state of engineering, but at high price.
If you want something for what Mark Levinson was famous, look for the new company of Mr.Levinson-Daniel Hertz.
Daniel
My point was more to Phil A "don't stay blocked on the BP26", because he needs a pre with "passthrough" fonction for HT.
This 380S provides one and works great.
As for the ML, i don't buy new, i don't have those kinds of $$$$ :roll: so, a used one (they're not made anymore anyway) can be found at a very good price if you seek a bit... even above the price of a brand new BP26 :wink:
And i don't refer to measurements but more to what i ear...
Once again, i love Bryston products, stereo bypass on my SP2 was great (made me love again music ! Million thanks James !!!), but once you've heard the transparency of the ML, you can't come back...
PS : I will certainly have a 326S or a Ref 32 some day, but this 380S is a very very good priced product on second hand market !
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Sold my Mark Levinson transport and DAC, 37&360 I think it was.....wanted 30/31 but to old now........ the kit not me !!
Now have BCD/BDA on route......
PS - My projector system does 4K :D
Back on topic - any news on date for SP3 ??? or Price ???
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Sold my Mark Levinson transport and DAC, 37&360 I think it was.....wanted 30/31 but to old now........ the kit not me !!
Now have BCD/BDA on route......
... plan to sell my BCD-1 and get a ML N.390S as CD player :wink:
Well, everyboby has to try new things !
Sorry for this "last" off topic.
So, James, when is your SP3 coming out ?
April ?
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Hi MOZ,
I think that you have to find a forum for Mark Levinson owners.
Daniel
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... plan to sell my BCD-1 and get a ML N.390S as CD player :wink:
Well, everyboby has to try new things !
Sorry for this "last" off topic.
So, James, when is your SP3 coming out ?
April ?
One has to keep in mind that Levinson is part of Harman Int'l. There are positives and negatives. Obviously Harman owns lots of brands they can leverage technology from (e.g. Lexicon). They also have a troubled financial history and the company was almost sold to investment bankers before the deal went through. Car audio is now a large portion of their business. When Levinson was part of Madrigal with the president of Lexicon running it for 8 mos., they abruptly shut down Madrigals operations (discontinuing the Proceed brand) and literally lost at least for an extended period (like 5-6 mos.) very expensive customer equipment in for repair. My poor local dealer had so many of his floor pieces of other brands lent out to customers to cover their lack of decent customer support. At this point in time, they don't even repair some Levinson and Proceed equipment which were under Madrigal that is not even that old (there are stories on Audio Asylum). Some have expensive doorstops. Even the Adcom 555 I have in the bedroom system can be easily repaired and that is much older than the stuff I'm talking about. Yes, the new stuff so far has been better supported, but it is still not Bryston customer service. You get better customer service from even brands like Oppo,
Everyone would like Bryston to come out with stuff faster. It is just the reality of the size of the company and the market. They are not alone. There are other cos. who make quality gear who are in a similar situation. That is one of the reasons the Proceed line was killed. They lost their shirts on the PMDT. They really didn't have video expertise and rushed to market in a hatchet job. It was a great transport and player when it worked (yes I owned one). So there is no need to pick on a company for conditions of its size and the market. No company is perfect. You have to pick your poison if you will and live with the positives and negatives. I got rid of Bryston once (I had ST series amps) due to their slow pace in getting into home theater. They are still slow and will be slow. I'm fine with that after seeing what else is out their.
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Well, i have no trouble being a Bryston owner and supporter as far as i can choose to support "also" other brands :wink:
I was faithfull to Bryston for 4 years, with my SP1.7 and then my SP2, had 4 amps, a dedicated CDP...
At sometime, when HD audio came in, i felt the wait for an SP3 a bit long (at least 2 years, and i'm very nice here !)... so i decided to move to something else, better on HT performances.
I had the chance to try a lot of pre-pro at this time (Proceed AVP2, Lexicon MC12 aso) and felt in love with the MC12, that i own, now.
Even if the MC12 is a wonderful processor, on 2ch i really don't like it, so i needed to find something to go with it, a 2ch pre with "passthrough" fonction, as you seek Phil.
I had the opportunity to get a ML 380S, after i understood there wasn't anything i could use at Bryston with this ability (!).
So, am i a renegade now ? 8)
I just enjoy my Bryston staff... and try to get opportunities on other products that shine my nights and days.
Used ones allow you to get very high products at lower prices... i find it a very economical way to build a great HT/2ch system.
That's all !
Anyway, I'm waiting for the new Lexicon plateform (MC12 replacement) with very envy but i will try a SP3 and compare them before making my choice.
:roll:
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Hi MOZ,
I appreciate you personal choice.
I am like a voucher, having money in my pocket for some good deal to come out.
I have nothing against ML except the price.
Pursuing PMC and Bryston for about an year I have managed to find a dealers with the affordable prices.
Mark Levinson,Dynaudio, JM Lab,Avalon, Musical Fidelity, Ghyphon, Naim and Wilson Audio were out of my reach in the past, but now when I can afford one, I just don't like them anymore.Nothing personal.
Daniel
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Lexicon makes some really nice home theater processors. About a year before the BCD-1, I listened to a Levinson CD player. I really did not do any deep comparisons. It sounded great. It was $6.7k. Given the history of the company of the price point (for just CD), I did do other comparisons when I bought the CD player of another brand at around the same price, another one a bit higher and that same brand had a 2-channel universal player that was $6k. I preferred the Bryston. I didn't consider the Levinson at its price point and given the company history. Proceed is gone as is Citation as former Harman Int'l Brands. I like the fact (for me personally) that Bryston supports stuff long term. I always look on Audiogon for a used 3BST to replace the Adcom 555 the bedroom as a good small amp fits nicely behind the TV. The sale that fell and the financial condition of the company just gives me pause that they may sell a brand or a name and it could impact support and at expensive price points it's just a personal no go for me.
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Bryston customer support is just 200% efficiant !
It sounds great, it's reliable, and very well priced (quality vs price).
And it's easy selling as used products (thanks 20 years warranty !)...
I just wish they could go faster in developping their products, sometime :wink:
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MOZ,
you are right about easy selling use Brystons, but it is true only for US version not Europrean one.
As a Bryston owner I would sell any other equipment I had than Bryston.
Daniel
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Sold two amps lately in France, very easily... the 20 year waranty thing helped a lot !
My SP2 went also quite fast here !
8)
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Hi MOZ,
I will send you a PM about the Lexicon.......
I have the MC12B with room eq etc.
I found some wierd things that should help you with 2ch from it..........
Andy.
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This thread is getting way of topic, it's supposed to be information about the SP3.
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Sorry, we were just talking while waiting for some fresh news :wink:
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So, anybody saw/heard the SP3 at the CES ???
James did you show it or not ?
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So, anybody saw/heard the SP3 at the CES ???
James did you show it or not ?
No we did not it was just on static disply.
We did a tribute to Jim Thiel using an all out stereo system using his last effort the 3.7 speakers.
james
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We did a tribute to Jim Thiel using an all out stereo system using his last effort the 3.7 speakers.
james
That is really special.
Jim Thiel's an incredible guy. And the 3's are an outstanding achievement in design.
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James,
any news about the trade in deal?
al.
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James,
any news about the trade in deal?
al.
Sorry not yet.
james
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Are we still looking at a release this year? Is there still going to be an audio only version? Also, will a biamp option likely be present?
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Are we still looking at a release this year? Is there still going to be an audio only version? Also, will a biamp option likely be present?
Hopefully the second quarter - we are assessing if we can still go with HDMI 1.3 or need to look at 1.4 in order to pass the video through on an audio only version. Yes we will release the audio only version first.
Bi-amp option?
james
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By biamp I just mean the option to output 2 sets of XLRs for FL and FR speakers. It just sends two unused XLRs copies of the FL and FR output.
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By biamp I just mean the option to output 2 sets of XLRs for FL and FR speakers. It just sends two unused XLRs copies of the FL and FR output.
Hi,
There is a set of 7.1 Balanced outs and a set of 7.1 Single ended (RCA) outs.
james
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Hi James,
Yes I understand that but can those of use using 5.1 setups use the 6th and 7th XLR outputs to output a copy of the FL and FR channels (Allows use of two monoblocks per channel in biamp config).
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Hi James,
Yes I understand that but can those of use using 5.1 setups use the 6th and 7th XLR outputs to output a copy of the FL and FR channels (Allows use of two monoblocks per channel in biamp config).
I will check with engineering but I do not think so. You would have to use a Y adapter or 1 set of XLR with 1 set of RCA outs.
james
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James,
Will the SP3 have 2 zone capability with an ethernet input for Zone B? (like the McIntosh MX 120?)
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James,
Will the SP3 have 2 zone capability with an ethernet input for Zone B? (like the McIntosh MX 120?)
Just one extra stereo zone.
james
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So, RCA outputs to an applicable amp? Could a keypad give commands to the SP3 from this stereo zone?
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So, RCA outputs to an applicable amp? Could a keypad give commands to the SP3 from this stereo zone?
Not sure on that one - will have to check with engineering.
james
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It has RS232 so if you are on AMX or Crestron then a keypad should be quite easy to implement.
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Usually if you're running a second zone you'd run Cat 5 or Cat 6 around your house and daisy chain keypads to it. Ultimately, the line would have to tie into the processor for control and I don't know if Cat5 or 6 and adapt to an RS232 at the processor end. Isn't the RS232 just for software updates?
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Hi Guys,
The SP3 is really targeted towards a simple high quality audio surround system so I am not sure if it will be able to incorporate all of the 'extra' features some are looking for. We really are concentrating on the best possible audio circuit paths which may negate some extras.
james
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Hi Guys,
The SP3 is really targeted towards a simple high quality audio surround system so I am not sure if it will be able to incorporate all of the 'extra' features some are looking for. We are really are concentrating on the best possible audio circuit paths which may negate some extras.
james
IMO, the fewer "extra" features the better. If all of the video switching, decoding, etc. circuitry could be on a replaceable card or separate box, even better. The whole rat race of "new" and improved HDMI, a-v decoding, whole home distribution makes no sense with a Bryston product and a 20 year warranty.
Steve
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I agree,simple meat+potatoes and to the point,superb sound.That's good enough for me.
It's just like music,if she's too busy,you loose the emotion,pocket, ect.
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The keypad feature and RS232 are considered necessity by many custom installers, is the SP3 not trying to be custom install friendly?
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The keypad feature and RS232 are considered necessity by many custom installers, is the SP3 not trying to be custom install friendly?
We are certainly going to try an accomodate custom installers as best we can but that is not the main focus for us with this product. I think there are many products available if people need the features that a fully customized system involves. The SP3 is really geared towards the purity and accuracy of signal both in the analog and digital domain rather than integration with lighting, multi-room, zones etc. I know this will cost us sales with the all in one custom installers but it is what it is.
The first SP3 will be AUDIO ONLY.
james
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...can't await!!!
al.
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The first SP3 will be AUDIO ONLY.
That the one I want. I just hope it does have RS232 control or I cannot sensibly use it with my AMX setup.
BTW: The SP2 did have RS232 control:
http://bryston.com/BrystonSite05/pdfs/SP2_SERIAL_PROTOCOL.pdf
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We are certainly going to try an accomodate custom installers as best we can but that is not the main focus for us with this product. I think there are many products available if people need the features that a fully customized system involves. The SP3 is really geared towards the purity and accuracy of signal both in the analog and digital domain rather than integration with lighting, multi-room, zones etc. I know this will cost us sales with the all in one custom installers but it is what it is.
The first SP3 will be AUDIO ONLY.
james
Hi James,
I have question about different surround sound modes on the SP3. Can you list the different modes?
Also, I have heard about an interesting surround sound mode from Audyssey DSX-9.1 (5 front speakers & 4 rear speakers + Sub.), which is highly regarded from people in the audio field. Even Dolby has a variation of this called Pro Logic IIz... Any chance the SP3 will be able to handle this surround sound mode - 9.1? :)
Ciao, Luigi
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There are posts (and pictures) earlier in the thread indicating the SP3 will have 7.1 outs only (unless it has been changed). Here is one older picture - http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/artman2/uploads/1/bryston-sp3-rear-600.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Bryston_unveils_New_SP3_Surround_Sound_Preamp_Processor_with_HDMI.shtml&h=164&w=525&sz=26&tbnid=Zl7bIMMYxvO5lM:&tbnh=41&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bbryston%2Bsp3&usg=__y5en9evFIs48sEbu8IRyAOPA344=&ei=iydZS4znI4im8AbvlvXFAw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&ved=0CAsQ9QEwAA
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Here was a recent post by James FYI
"
James Tanner
Registered++
Posts: 4881
The Demo is Everything!
Gallery
Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #502 on: 5 Sep 2009, 10:35 PM »
Quote
Three rack-spaces, top rack-space houses dual power supplies and audio/video HDMI switching.
Two pairs of Balanced inputs, Set of 7.1 Balanced out, Set of 7.1 single ended out
Six - Pairs Single ended Analog Inputs, 2 Pairs Balanced Inputs, 7.1 Single Ended Analog bypass
One Stereo Single Ended Analog Bypass, One Zone, VCR and Tape loop 1 set of each,
RS-232? 2 inputs, Ethernet ? 1 input, IR - 1 Input, Mic ? 1 Input, Headphone ?1 Stereo Input
Digital Inputs ? 3- Optical, 4 Coax, 1- USB, Digital Out 1- Optical
If Optional Video Board Installed:
2- Composite Video In ? 1 Video Out
2- S Video In ? 1 Video Out
2 Component Video In ? 1 Video Out
8 HDMI In ? 2 HDMI Out
"
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We are certainly going to try an accomodate custom installers as best we can but that is not the main focus for us with this product. I think there are many products available if people need the features that a fully customized system involves. The SP3 is really geared towards the purity and accuracy of signal both in the analog and digital domain rather than integration with lighting, multi-room, zones etc. I know this will cost us sales with the all in one custom installers but it is what it is.
The first SP3 will be AUDIO ONLY.
james
Hi James,
I have question about different surround sound modes on the SP3. Can you list the different modes?
Also, I have heard about an interesting surround sound mode from Audyssey DSX-9.1 (5 front speakers & 4 rear speakers + Sub.), which is highly regarded from people in the audio field. Even Dolby has a variation of this called Pro Logic IIz... Any chance the SP3 will be able to handle this surround sound mode - 9.1? :)
Ciao, Luigi
Hi Luigi,
Definitely not 9.1
james
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Being a MC enthusiast it is hard for me to imagine how Bryston SP3 can improve on what I'm hearing with a mass market av/receiver. If I could afford one that is.
One area that I think could be improved is more precise speaker distance calibration. Having mulitple speakers getting the sound arrival time to ears would help improve overall sound. Balance left and right and locking the image dead center is critical to the soundstage. Which can be difficult to accomplish precisely in an unconventional setup or room.
I suppose too that the SP3 will be even more transparent especially if sacds can be dsp. That's still difficult to imaging but would be great for the future of sacd if they pull it off. Then I would be tempted to purchase an SP3 even if I have to buy on credit.
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Being a MC enthusiast it is hard for me to imagine how Bryston SP3 can improve on what I'm hearing with a mass market av/receiver.
Hi Mag,
Bryston's secret about the superior sound is beyond features and nice marketing talk. As James has indicated before, it's the analog side of their products that set them apart from the rest. While all those mass market receivers might have the most recent DSPs, D/A and A/D converters and 100.x channels, they also employ off the shelf standard ICs for the analog side, which Bryston doesn't use in the signal path. Brystons signal path only uses descrete circuitry. An then the power amplifiers... there isn't a receiver I know of that could rival the qualities of a SST or SST² power amplifier.
I have been blown away a few times by how much better a Bryston product can sound compared to mainstream HiFi.
Cheers!
Markus
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I'll try to clarify what I meant. Having Bryston gear already I can't imagine how much more transparent the music can get without perhaps sounding clinical.
Using a mass market av/receiver as a pre-amp, sure the SP3 will outperform it just with balanced inputs and outputs. However if the improvement is only marginal it won't justify the expediture. If the improvement is decisive, then as I mentioned I can't imagine how much more detail can be obtained than what I'm already hearing. I believe sacd can be improve on and this would clearly define sacd as the #1 audio format.
Other processors convert DSD to PCM. I hope that Bryston retains the analog input and somehow enhances the harmonics.
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Not sure on that one - will have to check with engineering.
james
James, did engineering say how the second stereo could be controlled? Ethernet?
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James, did engineering say how the second stereo could be controlled? Ethernet?
Hi,
To early to tell yet.
james
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As I understand it, when the SP3.0 hits the street, its going to be audio only. My query is as to what this means regarding HDMI inputs (will it have them for video switching purposes alla the classe sp800) or not have them at all. Second if it will have HDMI for video switching will the audio side of HDMI be used processing or is going to need a digital in (or toslink) from every source?
I currently have an Arcam AV888 and an Anthem D2v; both have their strenghts and weaknesses but HDMI handshaking and what not is an occasional problem with both of them. I would have to think that all vendors have a love/hate relationship with HDMI.
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As I understand it, when the SP3.0 hits the street, its going to be audio only. My query is as to what this means regarding HDMI inputs (will it have them for video switching purposes alla the classe sp800) or not have them at all. Second if it will have HDMI for video switching will the audio side of HDMI be used processing or is going to need a digital in (or toslink) from every source?
I currently have an Arcam AV888 and an Anthem D2v; both have their strenghts and weaknesses but HDMI handshaking and what not is an occasional problem with both of them. I would have to think that all vendors have a love/hate relationship with HDMI.
Hi audiojack - love/hate for sure!
jmes
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Hi Phil A,
My point being only "if possible" think about it and don't get on the market with an already outdated product (or with no solution to prevent it)...
We've been told AVATAR Blu-ray release will come with 3D, i know there should be some delay, but it will be there soon or later.
And when everybody is going to "fire" it's HDMI 1.4 pre-pro, the marketing campaigns will kill everybody else (as HD kind of did, see tons of excellent pre on sale because they just don't "do HD") !
I've heard Denon was already on it's way to 1.4 and was planning a all new batch of products soon...
JVC projectors are on their way to 4K aso...
I really believe Bryston should think a way to sort out this 1.4 thing and then let it know to people in order to prevent it's sales...
My 2 cts :?
This is marketing BS from the industry pushing HW sales. We don’t need a Pre/Pro or receiver that is HDMI 1.4 to watch 3d material. A 3D capable Blu-Ray with dual HDMI outputs and a 3D capable display/projector is sufficient.
Shoot the video directly to the projector.
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As I understand it, when the SP3.0 hits the street, its going to be audio only. My query is as to what this means regarding HDMI inputs (will it have them for video switching purposes alla the classe sp800) or not have them at all. Second if it will have HDMI for video switching will the audio side of HDMI be used processing or is going to need a digital in (or toslink) from every source?
I currently have an Arcam AV888 and an Anthem D2v; both have their strenghts and weaknesses but HDMI handshaking and what not is an occasional problem with both of them. I would have to think that all vendors have a love/hate relationship with HDMI.
I do not agree with you sadly the Anthem is the only none high volume company at this point that provide stability over HDMI. Arcam doesn’t. Even the new Classe SSP is not stable. To achieve this they open their beta software to lots of peoples and this significantly expend their testing capacity. HDMI interoperability between equipments is hell and small companies cannot afford the required testing capability.
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As I understand it, when the SP3.0 hits the street, its going to be audio only. My query is as to what this means regarding HDMI inputs (will it have them for video switching purposes alla the classe sp800) or not have them at all. Second if it will have HDMI for video switching will the audio side of HDMI be used processing or is going to need a digital in (or toslink) from every source?
So the question is, could we output one video stream, while listening to the audio from another input, HDMI, Digital or Analog? It would be nice to be able to hook up the appropriate components with just HDMI, and not have to do HDMI for Video and a separate Audio so you can watch one video source while listening to the audio of an other.
Also general question how many addressable inputs will there be? I noticed the various buttons on the front, but, it would be nice for it to be like the B&K Reference 70 and the Emotiva UMC-1 that allow every input to be assigned to it's own input/component (e.g. every HMDI, every digital and every analog could be used a sepearate inputs).
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This is marketing BS from the industry pushing HW sales. We don’t need a Pre/Pro or receiver that is HDMI 1.4 to watch 3d material. A 3D capable Blu-Ray with dual HDMI outputs and a 3D capable display/projector is sufficient.
Shoot the video directly to the projector.
Hi Tolstoi,
Didn't mean "we need" 1.4... but just that when Denon, Onkyo (even Anthem will do it, i'm quite sure :roll:) aso... will provide 1.4 products on the market (that is later this year...), if Bryston is "only" 1.3 capable, then selling will be hard for them and we know they are quite "long" to get new products on the market :|
So my advice is... "if possible", find a way to be "1.4 ready" soon enough or think about a way to upgrade in a soon futur !
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.................. it would be nice for it to be like the B&K Reference 70 and the Emotiva UMC-1 that allow every input to be assigned to it's own input/component (e.g. every HMDI, every digital and every analog could be used a sepearate inputs).
Most receivers today all have this feature. Every audio and video input is assignable in any combination to the HDMI output. Even my cheap $800 Denon receiver in my office has this feature, along with upscaling any video signal to HDMI 1080p whether its from component, HDMI, composite, etc.....
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Hi Tolstoi,
Didn't mean "we need" 1.4... but just that when Denon, Onkyo (even Anthem will do it, i'm quite sure :roll:) aso... will provide 1.4 products on the market (that is later this year...), if Bryston is "only" 1.3 capable, then selling will be hard for them and we know they are quite "long" to get new products on the market :|
So my advice is... "if possible", find a way to be "1.4 ready" soon enough or think about a way to upgrade in a soon futur !
I do not think the lack of HDMI1.4 support will be a show stopper for a typical Bryston user. Even more if the first units are audio only. Stability over HDMI could be and this is where attention needs to be spent.
Obviously any design needs to ensure that an upgrade from HDMI 1.3 to 1.x is done with minimal impact on the overall design.
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Well, i have no trouble being a Bryston owner and supporter as far as i can choose to support "also" other brands :wink:
I was faithfull to Bryston for 4 years, with my SP1.7 and then my SP2, had 4 amps, a dedicated CDP...
At sometime, when HD audio came in, i felt the wait for an SP3 a bit long (at least 2 years, and i'm very nice here !)... so i decided to move to something else, better on HT performances.
I had the chance to try a lot of pre-pro at this time (Proceed AVP2, Lexicon MC12 aso) and felt in love with the MC12, that i own, now.
Even if the MC12 is a wonderful processor, on 2ch i really don't like it, so i needed to find something to go with it, a 2ch pre with "passthrough" fonction, as you seek Phil.
I had the opportunity to get a ML 380S, after i understood there wasn't anything i could use at Bryston with this ability (!).
So, am i a renegade now ? 8)
I just enjoy my Bryston staff... and try to get opportunities on other products that shine my nights and days.
Used ones allow you to get very high products at lower prices... i find it a very economical way to build a great HT/2ch system.
That's all !
Anyway, I'm waiting for the new Lexicon plateform (MC12 replacement) with very envy but i will try a SP3 and compare them before making my choice.
:roll:
Talking about Lexicon, I hope you are not planning on buying their scammy Oppo player at 3.5000$. Bryston is slow in terms of product development but at least they are coming to market with innovative solution. Lexicon is not the company it used to be.
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Talking about Lexicon, I hope you are not planning on buying their scammy Oppo player at 3.5000$. Bryston is slow in terms of product development but at least they are coming to market with innovative solution. Lexicon is not the company it used to be.
I wouldn't mind if Bryston used some help on technology they cannot possibly develop themselves economically, considering the quantities they can sell. In fact, they did this on the SP-1, SP-1.7 and SP-2 where they used an OEM digital board as the basis for the Pre/Pro's digital section. And my guess is, they might do the same for the SP-3. The former products still excelled due to Bryston's attention to sound quality relevant details and their superior analog circuitry.
Developing a BD player is a very complex task. A huge part of the efforts is software development, just to get and keep the machine going (and adapt it to new "features" to make sure it plays the most recent disks). I'd rather see Bryston focus on building the best possible sound experience than adapting the player firmware to the most recent BD Live gimmicks.
So, using a player with excellent components from a manufacturer that proved capable and willing to support his products on the software side (and I think OPPO falls into this category) as a base for a high end player isn't such a bad idea.
I didn't know about the $3,500 player from Lexicon being build on the OPPO base, but at least one other High End manufacturer is doing the same, considering a price of up to $10,000 for his OPPO based Blu-Ray player.
Is it worth the margin paid on the $499 OPPO? Is a Bryston Pre/Pro worth the margin on a mainstream AV receiver that might have a higher powered DSP, video processing, the most recent x.x codecs and innumerable features the Bryston cannot and might not even want to offer? Well, everybody has to decide for themself. :wink:
Cheers!
Markus
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I didn't know about the $3,500 player from Lexicon being build on the OPPO base
Oppo on the Inside, Lexicon on the Outside (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1)
.
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Most receivers today all have this feature. Every audio and video input is assignable in any combination to the HDMI output. Even my cheap $800 Denon receiver in my office has this feature, along with upscaling any video signal to HDMI 1080p whether its from component, HDMI, composite, etc.....
Ok, clarification, I mean add up all inputs: i.e. as I can discern from the fuzzy shots of the SP3 back, 8 HDMI + 4 coax + 5 optical + 6 RCA pairs + 1 7.1-multichannel + 2 XLR pairs + 2 AES/EBU = 28 individual separate re-namable inputs--ok, components, too many interchangeable terms--not just the standard 9 or so 'components' (e.g. BD/DVD, TV, SAT, CD, etc.) that you can assign the various inputs too. Though it would maybe start with a basic set that you could then expand. Since 9 'components' is barely adequate for me, and the HDMI issue tends to mean that I can't just use an HDMI to the Processor and have everything work as I would like, I'm looking at a separate 2-channel setup with 'HT Bypass' input so I have enough inputs for all my components.
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I didn't know about the $3,500 player from Lexicon being build on the OPPO base, but at least one other High End manufacturer is doing the same, considering a price of up to $10,000 for his OPPO based Blu-Ray player.
Cheers!
Markus
The difference is the Ayre starts with the basic processor and then changes basically everything. The Lexicon is the Oppo with just a different case. One could discuss whether the merits of the sound or picture are worth the price difference, but in the case of the Lexicon it is whether you think the case is worth $3,000 more the Oppo's case. That's a big difference.
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Talking about Lexicon, I hope you are not planning on buying their scammy Oppo player at 3.5000$. Bryston is slow in terms of product development but at least they are coming to market with innovative solution. Lexicon is not the company it used to be.
Not a chance ! :nono:
I have always been aware that DVD/BD products made by Lexicon were just rebadged products sold a lot more, so i buy other brands :roll:
For me, Lexicon has only one interesting product, that is the MC12 (and you'be better buy it on second hand !)... Everything else is too expensive and you find better products for less money.
I'm more interested those days in Mark Levinson products (used ones, of course :green:)...
I'm looking for a N°390S to replace my actual BCD-1... and already got a N°380S for 2ch, and that is working :o
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Not a chance ! :nono:
I have always been aware that DVD/BD products made by Lexicon were just rebadged products sold a lot more, so i buy other brands :roll:
For me, Lexicon has only one interesting product, that is the MC12 (and you'be better buy it on second hand !)... Everything else is too expensive and you find better products for less money.
I'm more interested those days in Mark Levinson products (used ones, of course :green:)...
I'm looking for a N°390S to replace my actual BCD-1... and already got a N°380S for 2ch, and that is working :o
Hi,
Each of us has a different approach to life, and each person has a different perspective on 'value'.
The Lexicon/oppo player will appeal to those that have all lexicon kit and want it all to look the same, high price to pay YES, but when I go to houses that have spent £100,000 on a kitchen, £20,000 on a sofa etc. then the oppo might be considered value for money.
The Lexicon amps used to be BRYSTON inside - So that was an excellent choice, Im sure we all agree.
I have the Lexicon MC12B v5, currently sitting in a box and NOT used as it does not decode the more recent HD audio (Its not an MC12HD).
Were the Lexicon RT10 / RT20 a rebadge? I had the RT0 at one point.
Here is what I found funny.....
I SOLD my Mark Levinson CD37 / 380 and bought the Bryston BCD1/BDA1. You are going the other way.....
DIGITAL technology has moved forward, slowly in some cases but it has moved forward. The 37 is usually considered the best transport Levinson built, with the exception of the 31/31.5 .
I am very happy with my change, I hope you are equally happy with yours. The issue I have is that Mark Levinson & Lexicon are owned by the same people :( , This firm recent moved massive areas of production for commercial audio DSP units to "another" country and have a long list of issues in both getting product to market and then product failure........
BACK TO THE SP3....
For me I think BRYSTON should rebadge an oppo83 unit and provide DUAL HDMI outputs from the player (or even tripple), ONE for Audio, ONE for Video, ONE for Both - OR selectable.......These need to be independant. This would also help reduce the possible issues of HDMI handshake.
I agree with the HDMI for video going direct to PJ or video scaler system.
I would be happy to consider an SP3 / rebadge oppo83 player both from Bryston.
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Yes the RT-10 and RT-20 were rebadges at significant additional cost. Hometheaterhifi.com did a review of the RT-20 and reported to be a very minor modified Marantz DV9500 (for something like almost $3k more) which I believe was based on a Pioneer itself. The RT-10 I believe from memory was also based on a Pioneer.
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Here is the review of the RT-20 - $2.9k list more than the DV9500
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/lexicon-rt-20-dvd-player-3-2006-part-1.html
“This player is modeled after the Marantz DV-9500 but with some modest changes including the outer case design and some audio filtering tweaks.”
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So, using a player with excellent components from a manufacturer that proved capable and willing to support his products on the software side (and I think OPPO falls into this category) as a base for a high end player isn't such a bad idea.
It is not base on but in fact 100% oppo player except the casing. Huge difference in terms of ethics.
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Hi,
Each of us has a different approach to life, and each person has a different perspective on 'value'.
The Lexicon/oppo player will appeal to those that have all lexicon kit and want it all to look the same, high price to pay YES, but when I go to houses that have spent £100,000 on a kitchen, £20,000 on a sofa etc. then the oppo might be considered value for money.
The Lexicon amps used to be BRYSTON inside - So that was an excellent choice, Im sure we all agree.
I have the Lexicon MC12B v5, currently sitting in a box and NOT used as it does not decode the more recent HD audio (Its not an MC12HD).
Were the Lexicon RT10 / RT20 a rebadge? I had the RT0 at one point.
Here is what I found funny.....
I SOLD my Mark Levinson CD37 / 380 and bought the Bryston BCD1/BDA1. You are going the other way.....
DIGITAL technology has moved forward, slowly in some cases but it has moved forward. The 37 is usually considered the best transport Levinson built, with the exception of the 31/31.5 .
I am very happy with my change, I hope you are equally happy with yours. The issue I have is that Mark Levinson & Lexicon are owned by the same people :( , This firm recent moved massive areas of production for commercial audio DSP units to "another" country and have a long list of issues in both getting product to market and then product failure........
BACK TO THE SP3....
For me I think BRYSTON should rebadge an oppo83 unit and provide DUAL HDMI outputs from the player (or even tripple), ONE for Audio, ONE for Video, ONE for Both - OR selectable.......These need to be independant. This would also help reduce the possible issues of HDMI handshake.
I agree with the HDMI for video going direct to PJ or video scaler system.
I would be happy to consider an SP3 / rebadge oppo83 player both from Bryston.
If you go to Audiogon and type in OPPO on the search, you will see that several companies, other than Lexicon are already offering mods to the unit.
As for me, I really couldn't care less about having HDMI on the SP3. The format is not stable and by the time Bryston would have the unit out, it will most likely change to 1.5, 1.6 or even be replaced by something totally unthinkable :scratch:
Carl
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As for me, I really couldn't care less about having HDMI on the SP3. The format is not stable and by the time Bryston would have the unit out, it will most likely change to 1.5, 1.6 or even be replaced by something totally unthinkable :scratch:
Carl
Hi Carl,
Im sorry to say but some things in life move forward - EVEN if its a step backwards....
And HDMI is one of those, terrible connector, That I believe ONLY Geffin actually use correctly - Did you know the screw above the HDMI connection is actually part of the original concept of the connetion. SO Geffin offer cables that screw into place and so dont fall out - CLEVER people, HOPE BRYSTON follow this idea :eyebrows:
Sadly most items come with HDMI these days, and like it or not (I dont) it is currently the future......Without HDMI the SP3 can stay as the SP2.......OR yo decode in the player, But thats never really worked out .
HDMI can be VERY stable - You need an HDCP stripper in line and then you remove 99% of th connection issues -Funny that a work round is required for the one thing this "new" system was esigned with........
The HDCP is almost out of date now.....people download, or rip films via PC - So the HDCP seems only to annoy the end user.....
The otherway to get STABLE HDMI is for the inputs to the pre/pro (SPx) unit to "hold" the input as active all the time - I think some user input is also requied.....
Design an item like the "SP3" wit the ability for the end user to tell it to force specific resolutions from specific input an always hold thoe as active.
My "tv" box has various tv and radio channels available - BUT if I want to hear the "radio" which often have NO video transmitted, I still need the TV on so the HDMI connection is "active" otherwse NO AUDIO !!!!! Crazy.........
Out of choice I would not use it, but if I want hi def, that seems the only way........
So Carl if you dont care/want HDMI then that will limit the quality of material you can use or decode.
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Mad Mr. H,
Well, while I"m not opposed to a stable format, I don't think it would make a huge difference if the SP3 was without the current HDMI. That is probably my point on the issue .
We know that it has been an issue with Bryston, seeing the responses James does post about it.
As for you not being able to receive those radio channels w/o the tv on , that is something inside the tv box that is directing the HDMI. :roll:
I do have several piece with HDMI, and I have hooked them up to my tv. However, I run digital optical to my Bryston and SVHS to the video switcher box.
As for things moving foward, I have been shooting Kodachrome film for over 25 years. Kodachrome film has been discontinued and only one place will process it this year until stock runs out. I have 3 films left :o :o :o
Carl
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I have the Lexicon MC12B v5, currently sitting in a box and NOT used as it does not decode the more recent HD audio (Its not an MC12HD).
Well,
I had a SP1.7 and then a SP2 for quite a long time (4 years) and used them on analog way (5.1bypass) with my HD DVD XE1 player and Pioneer LX91 (aka 09FD), sending decoded HD audio through it.
I used external EQ as well (Audiocontrol) in order to get things perfectly tuned to my room (EQ done by a pro).
The Bryston was just way of from what the MC12 can do !
Even if your MC12 is not an "HD version", do you know that you can send analog decoded HD audio in it's 5.1 analog in and them apply upsampling to get the result back to digital (5.1 mch track at 96/24)?
Then you're back "as if" you were decoding HD inside, believe me it's just as perfect, there is no loss anywhere.
We've done testing versus a Denon AVP-A1HD and... some owners prefered the Lex on HT performances 8)
HD decoding is not an issue for me...
So, it's just too bad to leave yours in it's box...
I'm using mine with a lot of satisfaction and wouldn't change it for anything ! :green:
-> as for the ML 390 vs BCD-1, well, i'll let you know what i think when i'll get the ML...
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Hi,
The XE1/XA2 was not excellent for analogue audio, its picture was better than ANY blu ray player. HD DVD without question has the better image. So it was a shame about the audio from the XE1/XA2. (And I am a fan of HD DVD, I have over 700 HD DVD's still)
I use the Denon 3800 blu ray a well respected player
I had both players running into a Zektor switcher via Kimber KS1036 cables into the Lex MC12B . I was very happy with this system, but the HD DVD really needed to be decoded by the pro not the player for best audio - So that was one of my reasons for the Lex to go.
I am "a pro" AV Installer so the eq setup is one of the items I am used to, this bring me to the next issuewith the LEX. "I" cant see what it is doing when it does itsroom eq - For "me" that is very frustrating and I cant check it has done tings correctly. For someone who is notin the trade then you wont have that worry.......
Without question the Lex is an amazing machine which is actually why I have kept it, yes in its box but most other kt would have be sld, so in its box for me is a positive for the Lex.
Yes please share your thoughts on the ML kit,
I have to say the load mech on the ML is FAR superior to th BCD-1.
EVERY time the draw opens on the BCD-1 and closes I cry - It sounds like a £20/$40 player !!!
I would have run the draw mech slower, just to reduce that cheap open/close noise.....
You can tell a well built car by the door close, so WHY :cry: does my BCD-1 sound like a childs toy :cry:
Mark Levinson now sadly no longer the same company...........
Im open minded and happy to hear opinions that differ from mine.
Andy.
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Hi Andy,
I have had some customers ask why we chose this specific Phillips L1210 CD Drive for our current BCD-1 CD Player. The search for the drive was not an easy task. The problem is that there are not many ‘CD dedicated’ drives out there. By CD dedicated I mean ones that have a ‘clocking’ frequency which is a multiple of the 44.1KHz, which is the standard for Redbook CD. Most drives are DVD drives which play CD’s and have clocking frequencies in the mega-Hz region and have to be converted to a lower clock frequencies to play a CD. By the way, this is true of the SACD drives we looked at which also are typically DVD drives that play CD’s and SACD’s.
We wanted to optimize the Redbook CD Playback so we were restricted to certain available drives. We looked at 5 different drives and choose the Phillips L1210 drive for some specific reasons:
1.It was readily available
2.It had a history in the market of long-term reliability.
3.Easily serviced
4.It was a dedicated CD drive with proper clocking frequencies
5.The drive is not anywhere near as important as the DAC, the dedicated digital/analog Power Supply, and the Discrete Class A Output stage
6.When running it was ‘dead quite’
The last one is important because once the CD is lifted from the tray to rotate below the laser the construction and materials that make up the tray are irrelevant.
Given the choices we made the selection in favor of the best Redbook performance available.
James
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Hi Andy,
Agree with everything you said !
XE1 was very perfectible on the audio side and what a poor drive it was !!!
But loved HD DVD anyway.
For the MC12 EQ, well my best friend is also HT integrator and EQ is one of is jobs... I also find too limited not being able to see or change the results on this pre but well it works.
We've tuned directly my Revel sub30 with it's own parametrics EQ and then let the MC12 add it's global correction.
That way was the better compromise but we could have gone further if we had a chance to access the Lex EQ.
As for the BCD-1, well it's a brilliant drive, superb analog sound but I agree... not a nice sound it does when opening !!!
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Hi,
I think this might have been asked before, but I will ask again:
As in the SP2, will the SP3 will have an option of AES/EBU digital input? I don't mind losing the optical inputs, but not the coaxial inputs - please increase from 4 to 6 inputs...
Luigi
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Luigi,
as far as i know the SP3 will have digital xlr + optical + coax inputs.
al.
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While a bit old - this is what the (front and) back of the unit was going to look like:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/artman2/uploads/1/bryston-sp3-rear-600.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/printer_Bryston_unveils_New_SP3_Surround_Sound_Preamp_Processor_with_HDMI.shtml&h=164&w=525&sz=26&tbnid=Zl7bIMMYxvO5lM:&tbnh=41&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpicture%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bback%2Bof%2Ba%2Bbryston%2Bsp3&usg=__oPn6iiHoz091_hswtLF6v9XmsaU=&ei=bkGBS6vvIsr-8QaU_qGtBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&ved=0CAgQ9QEwAQ
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Hi James,
My question was not directly answered, so it is again;
As in the SP2, will the SP3 will have an option of AES/EBU digital input? I don't mind losing the optical inputs, but not the coaxial inputs - please increase from 4 to 6 inputs...
Luigi
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Hi James,
My question was not directly answered, so it is again;
As in the SP2, will the SP3 will have an option of AES/EBU digital input? I don't mind losing the optical inputs, but not the coaxial inputs - please increase from 4 to 6 inputs...
Luigi
Hi Luigi,
It will have 2- AES/EBU digital inputs.
james
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Hi,
Great, I had missed the 2 AES/EBU digital inputs on the revised rear picture of the SP3...
Luigi
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James,
another month is turning to its end... time for an update on the status of the audio-only version of the SP-3 !? ;)
Cheers!
Markus
P.S. I already purchased a used Crestron 8x2 matrix HDMI-switch, so I can keep the video switching out of the SP3. It's the model that I mentioned before that permanently keeps the connection to all HDMI devices it's connected to to minimize switching delays due to time consuming HDCP and resolution negotiations. It allows to switch audio and video independently. So sending audio only to the SP-3 should be possible.
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James,
another month is turning to its end... time for an update on the status of the audio-only version of the SP-3 !? ;)
Cheers!
Markus
P.S. I already purchased a used Crestron 8x2 matrix HDMI-switch, so I can keep the video switching out of the SP3. It's the model that I mentioned before that permanently keeps the connection to all HDMI devices it's connected to to minimize switching delays due to time consuming HDCP and resolution negotiations. It allows to switch audio and video independently. So sending audio only to the SP-3 should be possible.
Hi James,
somehow, my message seems to have gotten lost...
Any news on the SP3? Is it on hold due to HDMI 1.x? Other projects more important? SP3-Firmware issues? Sound not yet where it is supposed to be?
I could go on making wild guesses... where does the SP3 project stand?
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi markus,
Yes HDMI 1.4 screwed things up. I am really hoping by summer we have it all sorted.
james
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Hi markus,
Yes HDMI 1.4 screwed things up. I am really hoping by summer we have it all sorted.
james
... well, **** happens, as we say :green:
Yes please share your thoughts on the ML kit,
I have to say the load mech on the ML is FAR superior to th BCD-1.
EVERY time the draw opens on the BCD-1 and closes I cry - It sounds like a £20/$40 player !!!
A bit "off" topic, sorry guys... but i received my Mark Levinson 390S... and i'm so so so amazed by the very large margin between the two players (390S vs BCD-1).
I wasn't expecting a so big difference...
There are lot more textures, feel real and airness around instruments in the ML :o
The lows are much more controled and musicaly sounding.
The two players are not even comparable, to me...
I feel like having changed my all system here, waouh effect ! :|
The BCD-1 is a very good CDP but sorry to say not the same class as the ML.
I'm also trying a 320S pre soon, against my actual 380S.
And speaking about the "draw opening", well, on the ML, here we have something that sounds more like it's price :roll:
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Hi MOZ,
I had terrible experience with Harman International,
so personally I don't to hear of them for the rest of my life.
Wolf can change his fur,but not his temper.
Most big companies are more profit orientated, that customer orientated.
If I were you, I would look for Daniel Hertz, Mr.Mark Levinson new brand.
The price is similar to ML, but the result should be far beyond ML.
Daniel
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that's interesting, Daniel. didn't know that Mr. Levinson has a new brand.
al.
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Hi Alexone,
It was long ago since Mr.Levinson is not connected with the Mark Levinson brand. I think since the early 80es.
I have nothing against ML, just using one reputation like in case with Mr.Levinson is not enough. There is for example a preamplifier constructed when Mr.Levinson owned the company and the price was around 600$. I clearly remember this period of my life when we were on the other side of the wall divided the world into East and West. At that time for 350-400$ you could buy a tape recorder made by Sharp or Pioneer. A reel to reel cost more than 1000$. And the technical achievements of this unit are still beyond most today's brand can produce even the highest price range. So be aware of who is actually stand behind the name of a particular brand. For example you can share you thoughts with the vice-president of Bryston.I think this is a plus for both manufacturer and customer. I think that a prober ratio between speakers and electronis should be 70 to 30.
Daniel
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Hi Daniel,
I really enjoy having discussions here with James, it's very confortable. It's a real plus being able to get in touch with Bryston in such an easy way.
But, even if i really like James :thumb:... well, i guess i can make the difference between the two products and prefer the ML player.
I'm buying second hand products only those days, i can't afford ML at full price you know (and the 390S is not made anymore anyway) :roll:
Never had any kind of trouble with Lexicon, Revel or ML till today... so you must have been unlucky i suppose.
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Hi Alexone,
It was long ago since Mr.Levinson is not connected with the Mark Levinson brand. I think since the early 80es.
I have nothing against ML, just using one reputation like in case with Mr.Levinson is not enough. There is for example a preamplifier constructed when Mr.Levinson owned the company and the price was around 600$. I clearly remember this period of my life when we were on the other side of the wall divided the world into East and West. At that time for 350-400$ you could buy a tape recorder made by Sharp or Pioneer. A reel to reel cost more than 1000$. And the technical achievements of this unit are still beyond most today's brand can produce even the highest price range. So be aware of who is actually stand behind the name of a particular brand. For example you can share you thoughts with the vice-president of Bryston.I think this is a plus for both manufacturer and customer. I think that a prober ratio between speakers and electronis should be 70 to 30.
Daniel
hi, Daniel!
i knew that Harman bought Mr.Levinson's brand. then he founded a new company called Red Rose. once i went to a dealer and he had a setup running Red Rose speakers...awesome sound. very, very good!!!
now Mr. Levinson has another new brand- what a busy man! i am sure that Daniel Hertz is high quality stuff, no doubt.
al.
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Well, it seems Mr Levinson likes to create brands and then sell them... :roll:
That's another way to see it... isn't it !
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Hi MOZ, I am not expert in Mr.Levinson way of doing things. Maybe at some point he is taking a decision to change the direction or attitude. Who know? I think that he prefer doing the perfection as a musician rather than mafacturer.
Daniel
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Personaly i prefer people fully commited to what they do/create... let's say like James at Bryston. 8)
It feels more like "a life time" achievement and i like that...
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I feel what you went through! My Dynaudio Contour 1.3SEs had a blown woofer from a lame amp. Dyn North America treated me like family during the repair. I had to wait 6-8 weeks for a replacement to be made and then installed, it was Hell! What should have been a $500.00+ proposition ended up costing absolutely nothing.
Kudos to companies that care about CUSTOMER SERVICE!
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Hi markus,
Yes HDMI 1.4 screwed things up. I am really hoping by summer we have it all sorted.
james
How about just being an HDMI repeater /switcher and not do any video processing? The custom installer and high end this unit is aimed at typically use outboard VPs anyway.
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It sure seems that hdmi is holding up the show way too long. I am still interested in seeing Bryston make a pure analogue multichannel preamp. Why should I buy an expensive pre-processor that may not be able to keep up with a moving target like hdmi?
Al
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It sure seems that hdmi is holding up the show way too long. I am still interested in seeing Bryston make a pure analogue multichannel preamp. Why should I buy an expensive pre-processor that may not be able to keep up with a moving target like hdmi?
Al
Actually these days they are including the decoders and basic room setup (speaker distance/volume) in the Blu-Ray players. So it would be feasible to skip the use of what we call a "receiver" and go directly to (pre-)amps. When some standard becomes obsolete you replace just the Blu-Ray player.
This seems to me to be the right way to do it. I've never seen any advantage in having to replace a perfectly working set of 7 channel of amplification of a receiver because the decoder that's built into it won't do the cool new DTS-HD V1.543.2B or because they changed HDMI from 1.3b to 1.4a Public Beta Release For S***ers That Need To Have The Absolutely Latest Version Of Something Digital.
Nap. :thumb:
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Hi Nap,
One of the things I am thinking about is if we offer a trade-in to SP2 owners against the SP3 we could take out the digital boards in the SP2's and modify them to be 5.1 analog preamplifiers. It would save a lot of good electronics from going to waste. Then we could have a very low cost 5.1 channel analog preamp?
james
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Hi Nap,
One of the things I am thinking about is if we offer a trade-in to SP2 owners against the SP3 we could take out the digital boards in the SP2's and modify them to be 5.1 analog preamplifiers. It would save a lot of good electronics from going to waste. Then we could have a very low cost 5.1 channel analog preamp?
james
Hello James,
I have being giving this a little more thought recently and I do not know if I would feel comfortable purchasing “used” units such as these. Is it really cost effective to recycle this equipment and would a consumer who has invested a few dollars in his/her system wish to go this route?
What type of warranty would this equipment have? Why not just build new 5.1 audio preamplifiers - the circuit development is already proven so it would seem that you would only have to “box” it.
I do not know how much of a demand there is out there for a simple 5.1 analog preamplifiers. A 5.1 analog preamplifier and a 9B SST² would definitely work for me and I would have new equipment with a twenty year warranty.
Be well...
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Hi Nap,
One of the things I am thinking about is if we offer a trade-in to SP2 owners against the SP3 we could take out the digital boards in the SP2's and modify them to be 5.1 analog preamplifiers. It would save a lot of good electronics from going to waste. Then we could have a very low cost 5.1 channel analog preamp?
james
Sounds like you will liberate them from anything that could be obsoleted :eyebrows:
If I were the owner of a SP2, I wouldn't return it, I would just buy something like this:
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Image.aspx (http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Image.aspx)
and connect them with analog cables.
Then I would be fine until Sony comes out with Violet-Ray. :P
Nap. :thumb:
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I have being giving this a little more thought recently and I do not know if I would feel comfortable purchasing “used” units such as these.
Laundrew - please note that James has mentioned "very low cost". I guess his purpose is to avoid dumping them into landfill, not making a huge profit out of it. And offering something very affordable to those that use Blu-Ray unit with decoders.
I don't even see the need to actually remove any circuits from them. Just a factory inspection / "refurbishing" would do. And they will provide you a low cost route to getting you started with a 9B. (a similar service to what the BP6 provides for those wanting to start with a Bryston stereo amp).
Personally for HT I use an old Denon receiver that does not know DTS-MA or Dolby TruSomething. However the player is a Playstation PS3 which can convert anything to LPCM, which the Denon understands, so I have no real reason to "upgrade" the receiver. But then I don't give that much on HT, it's my stereo system that gets pampered :P
Nap. :thumb:
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Also Laundrew may I quote you with this from the "9B review" thread:
"Now if we could only have a simple Bryston preamplifier for use with the 9B SST² with no “bells and whistles“ attached for home theatre applications...
Be well..."
Let's see... if this fall James tells you "buy a 9B SST2 now, get a SP2 free", could you pass? :drool: Would it matter that the SP2 is factory refurbished and not a new-born?
Nap.
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Sounds like you will liberate them from anything that could be obsoleted :eyebrows:
If I were the owner of a SP2, I wouldn't return it, I would just buy something like this:
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Image.aspx (http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Image.aspx)
and connect them with analog cables.
Then I would be fine until Sony comes out with Violet-Ray. :P
Nap. :thumb:
I wouldnt buy the Oppo for analogue use (I own one so shoud know), the bass management is a mess. Denon at least do analogue BM properly, Oppo is fine over HDMI though.
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A "low cost" SP2 stripped of digital would work for me. I was actually thinking of adding a 6BSSTsq for F C R and use my PP300SSTs for Rear L R.
Al
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Also Laundrew may I quote you with this from the "9B review" thread:
"Now if we could only have a simple Bryston preamplifier for use with the 9B SST² with no “bells and whistles“ attached for home theatre applications...
Be well..."
Let's see... if this fall James tells you "buy a 9B SST2 now, get a SP2 free", could you pass? :drool: Would it matter that the SP2 is factory refurbished and not a new-born?
Nap.
Hello Nap,
So many pros and cons on this one.
Sometimes the “cheapest” way to go is not the best deal at all. Yes a simple 5.1 preamplifier would be perfect for me but I am very cautious about purchasing a unit that has being pieced together.
If I am going to purchase a new 9B SST², I might as well purchase a new 5.1 preamplifier. If a simple 5.1 preamplifier is not available, I may as well stay with my current Marantz/KEF system.
If Bryston did offer a used/refurbished 5.1 preamplifier - I am curious what the warranty would be?
Lets say you purchase one of these units and it dies a year later and it has no warranty - did you really save anything by purchasing it? Now you must pay to get it repaired or replace it all together.
A twenty year warranty would definitely “null and void” the above statement.
If an individual wants to purchase used gear, they may as well purchase used amplifiers as well.
Just so many things to consider…
Be well…
-
The AR MP1 and the Parasound P7 to me looks like the ideal surround-sound/multi-audio-channel pre-amps since they offer more than one multi-channel input but they still have one flaw. I want the opportunity for all willing sources to participate in surround sound and not limited that to a single blu-ray player with multiple outs. A refurb SP2.0 without it's DAC might be a hard sell unless Bryston offer's multi-channel version of the BDA-1.
Essentially we have the same problem with video as we do with audio with everything moving to digital downloads. Today, I'm perfectly happy with a blu-ray player with multiple outs, but tomorrow I would want more.
On an interesting note, Parasound canceled their surround sound processor due to development costs.
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[...]
On an interesting note, Parasound canceled their surround sound processor due to development costs.
Don't forget that there are no standards there, it's all a moving target encumbered by patents, license fees and strong arm marketing and bullying.
Can anyone explain to me in plain english why we needed a couple of new flavors of DTS and Dolby schemes on Blu-Ray, all while there is enough space to fit LPCM directly there on the discs??? And why are Dolby and DTS still in business???
And don't forget the ever moving HDMI and HDCP "standards".
I have my own way of dealing with this. I just refrain from spending much money on such. Let the dust settle first.
Nap. :thumb:
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Can anyone explain to me in plain english why we needed a couple of new flavors of DTS and Dolby schemes on Blu-Ray
I'll come up with an explanation right after you explain why we need 3D television.
brucek
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I'll come up with an explanation right after you explain why we need 3D television.
Being aimed squarely at the american market, I would suspect it has something to do with x rated entertainment.
Nap. :duh:
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Don't forget that there are no standards there, it's all a moving target encumbered by patents, license fees and strong arm marketing and bullying.
Can anyone explain to me in plain english why we needed a couple of new flavors of DTS and Dolby schemes on Blu-Ray, all while there is enough space to fit LPCM directly there on the discs??? And why are Dolby and DTS still in business???
And don't forget the ever moving HDMI and HDCP "standards".
I have my own way of dealing with this. I just refrain from spending much money on such. Let the dust settle first.
Nap. :thumb:
HDCP has not changed since DVI. HDMI really has minor changes but probably the biggest jump was HDMI 1.2 to 1.3 with more video standards to support. HDMI 1.4 added ethernet and 3D tv support but I can always point to the Sony PS3 and point out that it was 1.2 when it was released and will be 1.4 this summer with a firmware update except for the opional Ethernet and sacd support.
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HDCP has not changed since DVI. HDMI really has minor changes but probably the biggest jump was HDMI 1.2 to 1.3 with more video standards to support. HDMI 1.4 added ethernet and 3D tv support but I can always point to the Sony PS3 and point out that it was 1.2 when it was released and will be 1.4 this summer with a firmware update except for the opional Ethernet and sacd support.
The original HDCP version used on DVI was 1.0. Since then we had 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 2.0.
HDMI went through ten different versions since 1.0.
It is not uncommon that you switch the source on your receiver (like from DVD to cable box and back) and screen goes black sound is gone and you have to restart the whole shebang.
How much money should I sink into such crap?
Nap. :thumb:
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I wouldnt buy the Oppo for analogue use (I own one so shoud know), the bass management is a mess. Denon at least do analogue BM properly, Oppo is fine over HDMI though.
There's lot of stuff out there these days, you only have to figure out how much you want to spend:
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=492&Title=Azur+650BD+Blu-ray+Universal+Player (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=492&Title=Azur+650BD+Blu-ray+Universal+Player)
http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1005434&navigationPath=n45940n100265 (http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1005434&navigationPath=n45940n100265)
Nap. :thumb:
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Any news on the actual status of the SP-3? I've been reading through pages of posts, and haven't seen anything other than a delay due to HDMI standards changing.
I've been waiting for an upgrade from my SP2 for a couple years now... How much longer will I expect to wait?
Mike.
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Any news on the actual status of the SP-3? I've been reading through pages of posts, and haven't seen anything other than a delay due to HDMI standards changing.
I've been waiting for an upgrade from my SP2 for a couple years now... How much longer will I expect to wait?
Mike.
Hi Mike,
Sadly I have no idea - assuming they do not hit us with more changes and licensing issues hopefully this summer.
james
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Hi James,
What's the final word on the room correction?
I remember discussions on having it up to 200 Hz. I was wondering why. Then these days I was looking at speaker measurements. Just to notice that many speakers designed for music have a bump around 100-120Hz. There's a good reason for that, as they need to produce energy in the bass region that is balanced with the energy in mids and treble. And since they can't produce acoustic energy below 40Hz, the balance is achieved by boosting the energy around 100 Hz. So the overall tonal balance sounds good.
Now I can see how this works bad with HT. As now you add a subwoofer which brings extra energy in the bass regions. So the bump at 120 Hz would be excessive and produce "boomy" sound. It would force you to run the subwoofer at lower volume than recommended, and the low frequency effects would be unsatisfactory. And it's not the room, it's the speakers. The only way to get rid of it would be to attenuate it in the SP3.
Of course there are speakers designed for HT that have flat response in the bass region (and would sound "dry" in a stereo system). And they will integrate with a sub "out of the box".
Can you confirm/infirm that this was one of the reasons for which you elected to have the SP3 do "room" corrections in the bass region?
Nap. :thumb:
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Hi James,
What's the final word on the room correction?
I remember discussions on having it up to 200 Hz. I was wondering why. Then these days I was looking at speaker measurements. Just to notice that many speakers designed for music have a bump around 100-120Hz. There's a good reason for that, as they need to produce energy in the bass region that is balanced with the energy in mids and treble. And since they can't produce acoustic energy below 40Hz, the balance is achieved by boosting the energy around 100 Hz. So the overall tonal balance sounds good.
Now I can see how this works bad with HT. As now you add a subwoofer which brings extra energy in the bass regions. So the bump at 120 Hz would be excessive and produce "boomy" sound. It would force you to run the subwoofer at lower volume than recommended, and the low frequency effects would be unsatisfactory. And it's not the room, it's the speakers. The only way to get rid of it would be to attenuate it in the SP3.
Of course there are speakers designed for HT that have flat response in the bass region (and would sound "dry" in a stereo system). And they will integrate with a sub "out of the box".
Can you confirm/infirm that this was one of the reasons for which you elected to have the SP3 do "room" corrections in the bass region?
Nap. :thumb:
Hi Nap,
No I have considered room correction below 200Hz because I have a distain for room correction period.
james
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Hi Nap,
No I have considered room correction below 200Hz because I have a distain for room correction period.
james
I don't have a high esteem for them either, my experience being with Audyssey.
However, to illustrate my point, here are two typical speakers that one may buy in Canada, in similar price range:
Speaker originally designed for music reproduction in stereo systems - you may notice a bump in the 100-200 Hz range. It has a full and well balanced sound in stereo:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/energy_rc_70/ (http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/energy_rc_70/)
Now a speaker designed for HT. It sounds "dry" without a subwoofer. Some people who hate "warm sound" will like it just like that. Note that the bass response is rather flat. It will integrate perfectly with a sub:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_studio60_v5/ (http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_studio60_v5/)
So I guess that corrections in the bass region would mitigate the "bass bumps" of certain speakers that were not originally intended for HT / sub integration.
I guess the 200 HZ limit is just right.
Nap. :thumb:
P.S. I'm not bashing speakers here. Both models are good speakers in their price range. However, the Energy will sound very good without a sub, and "boomy" when a sub is added. The Paradigm will sound dry without a sub, and very good when a sub is added.
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Hi Nap,
No I have considered room correction below 200Hz because I have a distain for room correction period.
james
Hi James,
wow, your previous statements regarding room correction have been a little more reserved... :wink:
Well, this weekend, I attended the High End trade fair in Munich, Germany. Anthem has been a regular exhibitor on the booth of Audio Trade, their German distributor. They used their proprietary room correction in their top of the line pre/pro to great effect. The by far not perfect conditions for an audio presentation on a trade fair floor have been offset - at least for home cinema, the sound was impressive. (O.k., they didn't use Bryston amps, therefore, I assume there is still some room for improvement. :) )
Anyway, I also talked to the German distributor for the Trinnov optimizer. They demoed with Manger (studio speakers) and the presentation didn't focus too much on the room correction. Nevertheless, the optimizer was activated and it is a quite impressive tool. An external processor like the Trinnov Optimizer, however, has a serious drawback: it is being chained beween the pre and the main amplifiers. Just think about having a digital source signal (HDMI), have it decoded and D/A converted in a SP-3 just to have it A/D converted back in a room optimization device to have the room correction applied and to be D/A converted back to be sent to the main amps. What a horror scenario! :nono:
Well, the obvious solution to this problem would be the SP-3 (or any preamp) to include the room correction... James, please don't shoot me... 8)
Anyway, it appears that the decision has already been made that the SP-3 won't offer a fully fledged room correction feature, neither the wide spread Audyssey, nor the more exclusive Trinnov. Besides James' aversion towards room correction as such, implementing it in a SP-3 would tie a lot of ressources at Bryston and - to put it mildely - software doesn't appear to be the strongest part of Bryston products as far as speed of development is concerned.
Let's hope the SP-3 will eventually see the light of day. I am still wondering if and how the trade-in will work out. Maybe the delay of the SP-3 already helped to get the value of the SP-1/1.7/2's out there down, so the trade in discount offered by Bryston might be lower and therefore better to digest for Bryston, economically.
Cheers!
Markus
BTW, Bryston was also presented on the High End trade fair by the German importer Sun Audio. Unfortunatelly, they didn't demo any of their products. Representing Lexicon, Mark Levinson, the high end JBL speakers, Thiel, Oracle and Revel besides Bryston, they would have had products worth listening to. :?
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Thanks Markus - I appreciate the input.
james
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So, will the SP3.0 have HDMI 1.4 or 1.4a?
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/the-truth-behind-hdmi-1.4a (http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/the-truth-behind-hdmi-1.4a)
Nap. :duh:
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So, will the SP3.0 have HDMI 1.4 or 1.4a?
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/the-truth-behind-hdmi-1.4a (http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/the-truth-behind-hdmi-1.4a)
Nap. :duh:
OH GOD!
james
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OH GOD!
james
:lol:
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OH GOD!
james
/* ring ring ring */
E: Engineering here
J: Hi guys just wanted to check if we can retrofit HDMI 1.4a
E: HDMI what?
J: 1.4a
E: :finger:
J: I'm not kidding, customers just asked
E: :cuss:
J: please
E: :nono:
/*beep beep beep*/
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:lol: :wave:
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Are there licensing limitations on spitting out HDMI portion to a dedicated box with 5.1/9.1/12.2 balanced outs to a mutli-channel analog only pre-amp? Ideally a BDA-1 feed by the BCD and BDP for digitial two channel and a multi-channel dac/processor with a few HDMI inputs, hdmi output to repeat the video, and analog multi-channel balanced/unbalanced outs seems like an ideal solution. Not only would that be killer IMO it would help keep everything a bit more upgradeable for both old and new gear. Clearly there would be issues with room correction and the mass of cables in the rear but nothing will ever be perfect, or one could say perfection has a time limit.
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Well some other companies are trying this approach:
http://hometheaterreview.com/upgrade-module-program-adds-technologies-to-existing-nad-products/ (http://hometheaterreview.com/upgrade-module-program-adds-technologies-to-existing-nad-products/)
However it wasn't proved yet as a working solution (some time ago there was a debacle about an upgradeable Onkyo that actually couldn't be upgraded lol).
The problem with HDMI is DRM via HDCP. I don't know the exact rules but the basics are that you won't get a key/license for the gear you manufacture unless you can show that your stuff won't output a decrypted stream. Sony at their best - this is the same stuff they did to SACD to ensure that it won't really take off.
My personal approach is not to buy into such things unless the price is low enough that I could consider the items to be "disposable". Try to sell me a $1299 Blu ray player and see if it works. Hint: at $129 I would start considering.
nap.
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Are there licensing limitations on spitting out HDMI portion to a dedicated box with 5.1/9.1/12.2 balanced outs to a mutli-channel analog only pre-amp? Ideally a BDA-1 feed by the BCD and BDP for digitial two channel and a multi-channel dac/processor with a few HDMI inputs, hdmi output to repeat the video, and analog multi-channel balanced/unbalanced outs seems like an ideal solution. Not only would that be killer IMO it would help keep everything a bit more upgradeable for both old and new gear. Clearly there would be issues with room correction and the mass of cables in the rear but nothing will ever be perfect, or one could say perfection has a time limit.
You can output what you like over analogue from a Bluray player including 7.1 24/96. If you were to use an unprotected digital path for audio (Eg. 4 Coax digital connections) then you are limited to 48/16 for uncompressed audio.
I have one of those Integra/Onkyo "Upgradable" units. I also have the service manual, they could have put an HDMI 1.1 7.1 card in the Multichannel analogue slot but decided they wouldnt sell enough. It wasnt really a technical issue, it was purely an economics decsiion taken with no regard for their existing customers.
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Well instead of an add-on card or a system that is "upgradable" I would prefer to have a surround-sound DAC just like the 2-channel DACs today. A killer SP3 with just analog only inputs and a BDA-1 for 2-channel gear and some sort of surround sound DAC that i can feed my various HDMI sources to and with analog outs and hdmi video out. So a separate box entirely just focused on surround sound decoding.
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Well instead of an add-on card or a system that is "upgradable" I would prefer to have a surround-sound DAC just like the 2-channel DACs today. A killer SP3 with just analog only inputs and a BDA-1 for 2-channel gear and some sort of surround sound DAC that i can feed my various HDMI sources to and with analog outs and hdmi video out. So a separate box entirely just focused on surround sound decoding.
That box won't happen. That's exactly the point of HDMI/HDCP licenses. You won't get one if your gear is decrypting the digital stream and sending it to an output.
And that's why I won't sink too much money into this stuff. It helps the consortium to obsolete the stuff every year or so and push you to buy a replacement. Sure I will do, if the price is right. I'm not willing to pay more than $199 on an electronics box an no more than $10 per diagonal inch for a TV. This is the loss I can take on an yearly basis.
If anyone wants to sell me $5000 stuff, then they'll have to convince me that it's for the long run. Like a Bryston amp.
Nap.
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But this is really no different than a blu-ray player with audio outputs.
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But this is really no different than a blu-ray player with audio outputs.
But then the DAC is inside the Blu-Ray player. I thought the purpose was to use external DAC?
You may try your luck with this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5277 (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5277)
Warning: it relies on you to connect a licensed, HDCP enabled component like a TV in order to work.
It's all BS so I'm not going there.
Nap. :thumb:
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Also you can check these:
http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/view_product_standard.php?product=1001185&sub1=&show= (http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/view_product_standard.php?product=1001185&sub1=&show=)
http://www.tmfsolutions.co.uk/Octava_HDSA51-UK.htm (http://www.tmfsolutions.co.uk/Octava_HDSA51-UK.htm)
Nap. :thumb:
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That box won't happen. That's exactly the point of HDMI/HDCP licenses. You won't get one if your gear is decrypting the digital stream and sending it to an output.
And that's why I won't sink too much money into this stuff. It helps the consortium to obsolete the stuff every year or so and push you to buy a replacement. Sure I will do, if the price is right. I'm not willing to pay more than $199 on an electronics box an no more than $10 per diagonal inch for a TV. This is the loss I can take on an yearly basis.
If anyone wants to sell me $5000 stuff, then they'll have to convince me that it's for the long run. Like a Bryston amp.
Nap.
It has happened already. Meridian preamps accept uncompressed 5.1 coaxial inputs (3 * 24/96 stereo), quite a few bluray players are then modified with 3 Coaxial outputs. Bryston could include the 4 coaxial inputs, the source can then be provided modded by the dealer. The mod board is about $200.
http://switch-box.com/3x_and_4x_S_PDIF_Transceiver_board.html
There is nothing wrong with Bryston including 7.1 (4) coax inputs and they would pay no licensing fee, coax has lower jitter than HDMI too.
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How do you get from a Blu-Ray HDMI output to the 3*24/96 stereo SPDIF inputs????
You'll need a HDMI to SPDIF converter, right? Which is exactly what the HDMI/HDCP mobsters won't license you to do, unless you downconvert to 16/48?
Nap. :scratch:
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How do you get from a Blu-Ray HDMI output to the 3*24/96 stereo SPDIF inputs????
You'll need a HDMI to SPDIF converter, right?
Nap. :scratch:
People hack the HDMI switches. You get DVI/HDMI video output and 4 Digital coax outputs, the outcome is full quality video and full quality digital audio out of the 4 coax outputs (Up to 7.1 24/192). No licenses required by Bryston, fitting a 7.1 quad coax input to the prepro is completely legal.
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People hack the HDMI switches. You get DVI/HDMI video output and 4 Digital coax outputs, the outcome is full quality video and full quality digital audio out of the 4 coax outputs (Up to 7.1 24/192). No licenses required by Bryston, fitting a 7.1 quad coax input to the prepro is completely legal.
Yes but then I'll have to hack a HDMI switch. This is not a proposition you can make to the public at large. It has to work out of the box.
Otherwise I'm fortunate to live in Canada. Hacking a switch box in US could get you several years in federal prison based on DMCA law. :o
Nap. :thumb:
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US companies made and sold SDI outputting DVD players and they sell modded HD-SDI Bluray players, if it is illegal it isnt enforced at all.
Modded SDI players here in the UK were legally challenged, they were found to be OK since the modder did not sign the HDCP agreement and they dont break any general laws.
Edit: The mods are probably legal in the USA too because you are picking up an unencrypted signal on the way to the DACs; you have decrypted nothing.
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You know, I have a simple solution to this. I still have quite good control of my money. So those trying to sell me this DRM thing won't see many of them.
Why would I want to encourage this madness.
Nap.
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Heh, I didn't mean to hijack the SP3 thread, sorry for that.
To me what is desirable is a surround sound DAC, separate from the source and separate from the pre-amp. Perhaps if the SP3 chassis was split into 3 parts: power supply, analog, and video(hdmi) that would accomplish my wishes and would be an easy sell to add the BDA-1. Potentially it would make it easier to swap out the video section down the road if this became a trend. It's taken a good five years before blu-ray players even decoded the hi-rez audio before shipping it out on the analog ports, before they would downgrade it or not offer it at all.
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Well, there is a box, the HD621 (http://www.meridian-audio.com/product-model/accessories/hd621-hdmi-audio-processor.aspx) to separate them, but, you do need the Meridian 4xSPDIF/RJ45 to process the audio. This is what I'd like so I can have just HDMI out from my DVR (TiVo and OEM), VCR, Blu-Ray, and AppleTV, but, be able to watch any video with any audio--true matrix. But, with DRM, only the HD621 will get me close.
Currently I've just been running the HDMI direct to my Plasma, and the audio to my processor.
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Step in the right direction, but this still has drawbacks with it's digital only outputs that only support 96kHz.
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[...]It's taken a good five years before blu-ray players even decoded the hi-rez audio before shipping it out on the analog ports, before they would downgrade it or not offer it at all.
Give'm some 5 years more and maybe they'll come to their senses.
Or maybe they would just come out with Violet Ray and completely new DRM schemes, connectors and cables.
Knowing them I'd say the latter. :icon_twisted:
Nap. :thumb:
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Well, there is a box, the HD621 (http://www.meridian-audio.com/product-model/accessories/hd621-hdmi-audio-processor.aspx) to separate them, but, you do need the Meridian 4xSPDIF/RJ45 to process the audio. This is what I'd like so I can have just HDMI out from my DVR (TiVo and OEM), VCR, Blu-Ray, and AppleTV, but, be able to watch any video with any audio--true matrix. But, with DRM, only the HD621 will get me close.
Currently I've just been running the HDMI direct to my Plasma, and the audio to my processor.
It has a really big drawback, the output from the 621 is encrypted. Meridian Prepros accept encrypted or unencrypted input on their triple coax connectors, the only way to get unencrypted full res out of HDMI that I know of is a device or HDMI switch hacked with the board I linked above.
Makes me wonder if Meridian will license out their Coax encryption tech?!? If they do then this would giver users both official and hacked methods of getting full res audio into the preamp without HDMI,
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Any info. on the release timeframe?
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Otherwise I'm fortunate to live in Canada. Hacking a switch box in US could get you several years in federal prison based on DMCA law. :o
Ok, our government decided to work on that and get us DMCA too.
I have a very good solution to it: I stop buying anything that has "encryption" and "locks" :finger:
Nap. :icon_twisted:
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James,
i don't know if this question has been asked already?!? what kind of remote will come with the SP3? any pics?
thanx,
al.
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Hi Al,
We will use one similar to the SP2 remote. In fact the prototype I have operates off the SP2 remote.
james
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Hi Al,
We will use one similar to the SP2 remote. In fact the prototype I have operates off the SP2 remote.
james
No iPhone?
Nap. :bawl:
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No iPhone?
Nap. :bawl:
Here you go napalm, http://www.globalcache.com/products/gc-100/ (http://www.globalcache.com/products/gc-100/) Just write that app and you can control the SP3 via the rs-232 port along with any IR device in your rack.. It will only cost you a few hundred bucks and perhaps a several nights and weekend spent coding.
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Here you go napalm, http://www.globalcache.com/products/gc-100/ (http://www.globalcache.com/products/gc-100/) Just write that app and you can control the SP3 via the rs-232 port along with any IR device in your rack.. It will only cost you a few hundred bucks and perhaps a several nights and weekend spent coding.
I was just teasing James.....
Nap. :jester:
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James you should better hurry up with the SP3, the folks at Anthem are attacking on all fronts:
(http://)
Of course it will be the D2v you'll be fighting with though.
Nap.
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James,
the SP2 used to show "clipping" when the analog input is (i think) more than 2 volts.
does the SP3 has the same characteristic?
al.
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the SP2 used to show "clipping" when the analog input is (i think) more than 2 volts.
Never heard that before. I think you may be mistaken.
brucek
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James,
the SP2 used to show "clipping" when the analog input is (i think) more than 2 volts.
does the SP3 has the same characteristic?
al.
No that was a THX requirement and the SP3 does not use THX.
james
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James,
The wait is killing us. You have been testing the prototype for a while, how about throwing us a bone and letting us know how it sounds! Lossless :drool:
Other than the change to HDMI 1.4, have there been any changes to the specs since you posted them earlier in the thread?
Jeff
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James,
The wait is killing us. You have been testing the prototype for a while, how about throwing us a bone and letting us know how it sounds! Lossless :drool:
Other than the change to HDMI 1.4, have there been any changes to the specs since you posted them earlier in the thread?
Jeff
ditto - the last post I believe indicated the bass response was not as expected and there were some ideas on how to remedy it. How does it sound vs. the BP-26 now?
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Never heard that before. I think you may be mistaken.
brucek
Brucek,
when i remember correctly the SP2 showed the clipping when in "stereo mode", not in "bypass mode". so if any analog device has more than 2 volts analog output this will happen. however, good to know the SP3 doesn't need these THX requirements...
best,
al.
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ditto - the last post I believe indicated the bass response was not as expected and there were some ideas on how to remedy it. How does it sound vs. the BP-26 now?
Hi Phil,
Got the bass issue solved. Working on some surround modes.
james
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James, thanks. Have you got the chance to do a comparison on 2-channel with the BP-26?
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I'd be very interested in that also.
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I'd be very interested in that also.
Not yet as I have been concentrating on the surround aspects.
james
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Goodbye HDMI, Hello HDBaseT (http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/goodbye-hdmi-hello-hdbaset/)...
and their website (http://www.hdbaset.org/) for all tech-talk.
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Goodbye HDMI, Hello HDBaseT (http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/goodbye-hdmi-hello-hdbaset/)...
Bwahahahaha!!!!
:rotflmao:
But not before we have one more and last HDMI 2.0.......
:rotflmao:
Nap. :lol:
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Goodbye HDMI, Hello HDBaseT (http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/goodbye-hdmi-hello-hdbaset/)...
and their website (http://www.hdbaset.org/) for all tech-talk.
Interesting, but it will likely be quite a while before it makes any real market penetration. The first thing they have to do is get it basically in all hardware (TVs, receivers, players, etc.). DTS did that and hung around even though there were not tons of regular DVDs issued that had DTS or even music discs. If they can get that far they have a chance of sticking around and that won't happen overnight
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Interesting, but it will likely be quite a while before it makes any real market penetration. The first thing they have to do is get it basically in all hardware (TVs, receivers, players, etc.). DTS did that and hung around even though there were not tons of regular DVDs issued that had DTS or even music discs. If they can get that far they have a chance of sticking around and that won't happen overnight
Note who are the founding members. Sony, LG, Samsung. Guess how much of the HD TV market they have together.
Nap.
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Note who are the founding members. Sony, LG, Samsung. Guess how much of the HD TV market they have together.
Nap.
Not nearly enough to do it on their own - http://www.businessinsider.com/sony-bleeding-hdtv-market-share-2009-2
Then they have Government hurdles to get through = http://seor.gmu.edu/student_project/syst101_00b/team02/Market.htm
How many consumers are going to put pressure on (let alone the HDMI lobby who will pressure cable box manufacturers too)?
It is not something that is even feasible in the near term. If they can get basically every one on board and it starts to become standard as noted in every piece of hardware (TV, A/V receivers, cable boxes, satellite receivers, computer makers, movie studios, etc.) they have a shot at hanging around (as I noted in the same manner as DTS did). If they hang around long enough then there's always a chance it can take over. They have a long way to go and lots of work Given the state of the current economy, they also must decide how much they are willing to invest.
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Not nearly enough to do it on their own - http://www.businessinsider.com/sony-bleeding-hdtv-market-share-2009-2
33% Sony + Samsung after Sony went down in sales.
I'd say it largely depends on how they implement it. If they use it just to implement some more DRM stuff - it won't fly that well. I guess their wet dream is that your TV and everything else gets connected to Internet too so they can "update" your stuff with the latest DRM scheme whenever they see fit.
Nap.
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How do you get from a Blu-Ray HDMI output to the 3*24/96 stereo SPDIF inputs????
You'll need a HDMI to SPDIF converter, right? Which is exactly what the HDMI/HDCP mobsters won't license you to do, unless you downconvert to 16/48?
Nap. :scratch:
The Atlona box does it. Markertek sells it. I bought the Portta from E-Bay in Australia (it was $48.99+$20 shipping and is an HDMI switch too with a remote so I can use it instead of the Oppo HDMI switch I have now) and it shipped from Hong Kong. I got it Saturday and only had some brief time with it Saturday night and though SACD out of my modded Oppo sounded better converted to PCM (24/88.2 is the limitation of the Oppo chip) and sent to the Bryston DAC upsampled.
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Trying to bring things back on topic.....
Any word on support of the following features in the SP3 which do have an affect on sound quality:
HDMI ARC flow rate control (Open standard similar to the PQLS/HATS system used with ILink)
Pure DSD over HDMI input
7.1 24/192 PCM over HDMI support (For future sources)
Converting SACD to PCM is usually only beneficial if you need to run processing on the signal, if you are in pure mode then pure DSD input over HDMI into DSD capable DACs is best.
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Will it have Displayport input/output?
Nap.
:peek:
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Will it have Displayport input/output?
Not ssure if thats really relevant for HT or music use. It s just a cut down variant of HDMI designed to save on licensing costs for computer manufacturers.
HDBaseT may eventually be important but the sucess of it is very uncertain at this stage.
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James. Is there an ETA on the SP3? Do I pick up a leica m9 or hold off a few months? :).
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This is an interesting memo from Parasound, perhaps some insight into the SP3 delay .........
http://www.parasound.com/new.php
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James. Is there an ETA on the SP3? Do I pick up a leica m9 or hold off a few months? :).
Hi,
Happy to report we hope to show the final prototye at the upcoming CEDIA show (Sept 23rd) and be in production shortly after that.
james
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Hi,
Happy to report we hope to show the final prototye at the upcoming CEDIA show (Sept 23rd) and be in production shortly after that.
james
Good news! Thanks
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James,
Finally....SP3!!!:thumb:
Will we get an advance view of the prototype, including final specifications?
And, any word on the expected cost and trade-in value for SP1-2's?
Ciao,
Luigi
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This is an interesting memo from Parasound, perhaps some insight into the SP3 delay .........
http://www.parasound.com/new.php
Sounds like they outsourced software dev to Hindi Packard or India Business Machines...
Nap. :icon_lol:
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This is an interesting memo from Parasound, perhaps some insight into the SP3 delay .........
http://www.parasound.com/new.php
It's interesting that Parasound refers to Bryston using a Finnish design house.
For the SP-2 and, based on the preliminary feature list, for the SP-3, Bryston has been using the Digital Audio Engine from Momentum Data Systems, a California based design house. My guess is the 'digital heart' of the SP-3 will be based on the DAE-6D http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-6D (http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-6D), just as the SP-2 used one of the previous DAEs.
Anyway, as discussed on this forum, the development of a HDMI based unit appears to be very difficult for a small company that can't rely on economies of scale like mass producers can.
Has there been any mention whether the SP-3 will be HDMI V 1.4? The topology of the Digital Audio Engine appears to be somewhat future proof as the HDMI board is an add-on to the DAE-board itself. So it could be swapped for HDMI 1.5+...
I am looking forward to finally seeing the SP-3 in its 'final' form.
Now, a few questions for James:
- Has there been a decision what upgrade route will be offered by Bryston to owners of a SP1/1.7/2? The ideas ranged from swapping the old SP1/1.7/2 for the new SP-3 at a discounted price to a separate box that would basically do the decoding and send the 5.1-analog signal to the old SP-1.7/2. Now, if my assumption about the analog connection of the external box is correct, this upgrade would be limited to 5.1 (as the SP1.7/2 only have an 5.1 analog in). I am not sure whether there could be a digital connection on the 'chip level' via I²S to the digital heart of a SP-1/1.7/2.
- Will the SP-3 support HDMI 1.4 right from the start and if not, will there be an upgrade path?
- What will the suggested retail price for the audio-only version of the SP-3 be?
Thanks and cheers!
Markus
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Since the so called "HDMI standard" seems to be disposable every couple months, I'm not buying any new HDMI based device unless it comes at "disposable" price too ($199 max).
Nap.
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Since the so called "HDMI standard" seems to be disposable every couple months, I'm not buying any new HDMI based device unless it comes at "disposable" price too ($199 max).
Nap.
I've had my Phil of it too.Tired of being HDMI raped.Getting off that bandwagon.
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I've had my Phil of it too.Tired of being HDMI raped.Getting off that bandwagon.
:lol:
Yep..my SP 1.7 will be around for a long time yet. I'll keep upgrading the DVD player to feed it analogue.
Keith
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I guess with my SP1.7, the most important aspect (besides pricing) will be how (the SP3.0) it sounds as a 2-channel preamp. I am using the multi-channel input of the SP1.7 with a modded Oppo BDP-83 and I could live with it.
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I guess with my SP1.7, the most important aspect (besides pricing) will be how (the SP3.0) it sounds as a 2-channel preamp. I am using the multi-channel input of the SP1.7 with a modded Oppo BDP-83 and I could live with it.
At this point, on a go-forward basis I'm thinking I don't want my 2-channel preamp and surround preamp in one box...things go obsolete in the multi-channel world way too fast!
Keith
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At this point, on a go-forward basis I'm thinking I don't want my 2-channel preamp and surround preamp in one box...things go obsolete in the multi-channel world way too fast!
Keith
Yes digital and video go obsolete much faster. I also don't know if I care what changes next. So I am debating that vs. the convenience of having everything in one box. The big question for me is whether I like it enough to be my last 2-channel preamp. I do have a secondary bedroom system and a secondary basement system. I just finished fishing wire for height channels and renaming inputs on the Pioneer 1120 in the basement and will likely set it up later. The basement was finished several years after I was in the house. if I could start all over, I'd probably just have a 2-channel system in the main system and would finish the basement a little different. So I look at the main system as primarily 2-channel and if I have the convenience of watching a movie too that's nice. I don't watch tons of regular TV (no cable or satellite) and based on the bulb usage of my old main system projector (and some of that was before the basement was done and before I had the current bedroom set-up) it's probably 10+ years before I'd be replacing a bulb under normal usage and assuming no equipment failure. The projector is about 2.5 years old (in both the main and also the one in the basement - where I went to a lower end model) and I'd be perfectly content with it the way it is without any changes at any future point. I view the basement system as something to experiment with if something new comes out.
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At this point, on a go-forward basis I'm thinking I don't want my 2-channel preamp and surround preamp in one box...things go obsolete in the multi-channel world way too fast!
Keith
Same here.2 Channel audio is where my compass is heading.
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As a stop gap while I waited I purchased a BDP 83SE and have it hooked up to my SP1.7 via analogue and couldn't be happier. Based on the video side of things I too think I can live with this for some time to come and if I make any additional investments in audio it will be on the two channel side of things. My secondary system consists of a B60SST that I would like to add a BDA to but the room isn't ideal and the "ambient noise" (small children) that leaks in keeps me from doing any serious listening there.
The HT system is in a dedicated room but has been set up for multichannel. It seems these days I spend more time watching movies with the family than listening to music, but in the future I do see myself moving more back to two channel with the video scaled back from a projector to a big flat panel.
I have been playing with the idea of scaling back the level of equipment for HT and implementing a second system in the HT room that is completely separate and two channel only.
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Now that everyone has satisfied their curiosity and has gone through one or more 5.1 or 7.1 systems.... I suggest a simple inexpensive experiment. Try to watch a movie in a really good 2.1 system (i.e. your Bryston stereo system plus a sub). Amazing, eh?
Nap.
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As a stop gap while I waited I purchased a BDP 83SE and have it hooked up to my SP1.7 via analogue and couldn't be happier. Based on the video side of things I too think I can live with this for some time to come and if I make any additional investments in audio it will be on the two channel side of things. My secondary system consists of a B60SST that I would like to add a BDA to but the room isn't ideal and the "ambient noise" (small children) that leaks in keeps me from doing any serious listening there.
The HT system is in a dedicated room but has been set up for multichannel. It seems these days I spend more time watching movies with the family than listening to music, but in the future I do see myself moving more back to two channel with the video scaled back from a projector to a big flat panel.
I have been playing with the idea of scaling back the level of equipment for HT and implementing a second system in the HT room that is completely separate and two channel only.
I'm using a modded Oppo with the SP1.7 too. I also have a BDA-1. I have an HDMI switch and can eaisily live with what I have.
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Now that everyone has satisfied their curiosity and has gone through one or more 5.1 or 7.1 systems.... I suggest a simple inexpensive experiment. Try to watch a movie in a really good 2.1 system (i.e. your Bryston stereo system plus a sub). Amazing, eh?
Nap.
Hello, just to jump on this thread to say I am patiently waiting for the release of the SP 3.0.
You can see my current system at:
http://musiqueenmulticanaux.com/
In the (hopefully) most polite and respectful manner I will say that I completely understand that many people will invest in a 2 channel systems for many good reasons. I have many good friends that have excellent such systems and I enjoy visting them and listening to their excellent systems.
But in my case I really do prefer listen to music in multi-channel (SACD, DVD-A and Blu-ray). I think in my own search for what sounded best I discovered that for me a sense of the 'projection' of the different instruments is very important. The most obvious example of this is the difference between a trumpet (focus sound) and a french horn (wide open sound). To simplify a bit I feel on two channels instrument like French Horns, double-bass etc. always sound wrong (or too weak). But on a good multi-channel recording (and yes there are a lot of bad ones) things sound closer to the real thing than on 2 channel (for my own ears).
So in my own case I will be very happy to try a SP3 as soon as one is available to try at a audio shop in my corner of the world (Montreal Canada).
Cheers and happy listening.
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Hi,
Happy to report we hope to show the final prototye at the upcoming CEDIA show (Sept 23rd) and be in production shortly after that.
james
Hi James,
This has put me in a quandary and I hope you can help me. I have just been contacted by my dealer here in Switzerland that after 6 months I can finally have an opportunity to demo a BP16 and a BDA-1 (btw - what's going on with your distributor here?). Should I buy them or a SP3.0? It's going to cost me about 6.5K Swiss for the BP16 and BDA-1. My question I guess is how much is the SP3.0 going to cost? Then I can decide if I'm better off buying the BP16 and BDA-1 plus some receiver or is the SP3.0 a better buy.
thanks
Ron
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Hi James,
This has put me in a quandary and I hope you can help me. I have just been contacted by my dealer here in Switzerland that after 6 months I can finally have an opportunity to demo a BP16 and a BDA-1 (btw - what's going on with your distributor here?). Should I buy them or a SP3.0? It's going to cost me about 6.5K Swiss for the BP16 and BDA-1. My question I guess is how much is the SP3.0 going to cost? Then I can decide if I'm better off buying the BP16 and BDA-1 plus some receiver or is the SP3.0 a better buy.
thanks
Ron
If your preference is 2-channel from multiple sources (i.e. CD transport, PC) , I'd say go with the BP16 and BDA-1. If you already have a good CD source which can pass via the bypass of the SP3 that may suffice. I would not expect the DACs in the SP3 to perform the same as the BDA-1. I would expect the 2-channel preamp section of the SP3 to be improved vs. the BP16.
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Hi RonCH,
If I were you I would buy BP26, or SP2 if I were a movie fan.
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Ron,
the price of a SP3 depends on its configuration. but i GUESS that the basic version can come close to 10.000 Euros... :icon_lol:
al.
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Anyone thinking about Blu-Ray discs as a source of high quality multichannel sound worth a $10000 prepro/preamp should google "Cinavia".
Nap.
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Anyone thinking about Blu-Ray discs as a source of high quality multichannel sound worth a $10000 prepro/preamp should google "Cinavia".
Nap.
Interesting - the industry is attempting another stealth DRM.
The gap between people thinking they are buying something and the content creators assuming they are licensing just gets bigger.
It's not "my" music collection, it is "their" music, and "they" are letting me use it, as "they" see fit, and for as long as "they" permit.
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Interesting - the industry is attempting another stealth DRM.
The gap between people thinking they are buying something and the content creators assuming they are licensing just gets bigger.
It's not "my" music collection, it is "their" music, and "they" are letting me use it, as "they" see fit, and for as long as "they" permit.
That's one of the reasons why storing your music in FLAC may be a good idea :thumb:
james
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Well, while DRM is not a nice thing to do to paying customers, my biggest issue with this one is not the DRM per se, but how it works. The garbage they add to the sound ("watermark") is not removed (filtered out) by the player at playback time. It will go all the way to the speakers and your ears.
So why would anyone take bluray "high definition" sound seriously when they intentionally add garbage/distortions to it.
It flies against the selling point of bluray format - "higher quality".
What's next, watermarking the image with stripes and blinking pixels?
Then I guess no one should invest in more than a "whatever is the cheapest setup on sale at Bestbuy" for playing this garbage.
Nap.
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That's one of the reasons why storing your music in FLAC may be a good idea :thumb:
james
Hi James,
This "Cinavia" is pretty much equivalent to those old CD protection schemes where they were intentionally recording defective sectors in order to prevent copying. It is degrading the signal, so why would I want to archive or do anything with this garbage. The best approach is to not buy/use it at all.
When buying CDs I am especially careful that they are free of such schemes. As an example, Norah Jones "Feels Like Home" had to wait a couple of years until I bought it. It was initially available only with such a copy protection scheme, and while I liked the music I didn't agree to buying a garbage recording of it. As a side effect, I paid only half the price as by the time they removed the protection the record was now old and sold in the "2 for $25" bin.
I guess I should refrain from buying bluray discs from now on. If recording quality is compromised then I could as well watch it on "on demand" cable. I wouldn't miss anything.
Nap.
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Hi Nap - how do you tell if the material has a 'protection' scheme?
I was refering to FLAC in the sense that it is not "owned" by anyone and therefore they can not change the 'rules' on you going forward.
james
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Hi Nap - how do you tell if the material has a 'protection' scheme?
I was refering to FLAC in the sense that it is not "owned" by anyone and therefore they can not change the 'rules' on you going forward.
james
Hi James,
CDs sold in Canada that featured such schemes had a logo on the back cover - like the one here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control)
and there was some fine print about it too.
I just made sure that I bought none of them :D
Playback on plain CD players was relying on the unit's error correction, and attempts to "rip" them to MP3 for your walkman/ipod were failing with "bad sector" issues.
As for FLAC I agree with you that it is a "neutral" format. Until MS could decide to have special safeguards in Windows 8 that will not allow you to play it at all. Then you'll install Linux and after a couple of years it will be all the sound cards that have some hardware embedded s**t that DRMs you, and Linux wouldn't help either. Just check how they're retrofitting this "Cinavia" thing.....
Nap.
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That's one of the reasons why storing your music in FLAC may be a good idea :thumb:
james
I fully agree, which is why I went digital years ago, and my files are stored as lossless FLAC. With dbPoweramp, I can convert back to WAV, or if coerced, even use Apple iPods by converting to their proprietary formats. The point is to have choice, and FLAC gives me that.
The lightbulb went on after I had collected a substantial laser disc collection (remember those?) while in Hong Kong, only to discover that the technology dead-ended, and everything was coming out on DVD.
I had already bought the films on VHS, then replaced them all with the higher quality LD. Hollywood took the approach that it was the physical media that I had purchased, not the content.
Which lasted right up until stores started selling used discs and people figured out how to copy DVD's, at which point they insisted you were only licensing the material, and they had the right to control the medium as well. In came the dreaded Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and it became a crime to even attempt to manage the content yourself.
So which is it? If I have licensed the material, then I should be able to store it in any format I see fit, or have it replaced if the medium is damaged. If it is purchased, I should be able to resell it, copy it for my own use, or generally dispose of it as I see it
Thank goodness CD's were used as a data medium on PC's or we would never have been able to liberate the music.
I have a great deal of music "trapped" on vinyl. It is still usable, but the cleaning, flipping, and pops and clicks are something I just don't want to go back to. In fact I hardly ever listen to vinyl, while I am constantly wandering through my digital collection.
I miss the cover art and the tactile feel of the LP's, but I don't miss the hassle.
-
I had already bought the films on VHS, then replaced them all with the higher quality LD. Hollywood took the approach that it was the physical media that I had purchased, not the content.
Which lasted right up until stores started selling used discs and people figured out how to copy DVD's, at which point they insisted you were only licensing the material, and they had the right to control the medium as well. In came the dreaded Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and it became a crime to even attempt to manage the content yourself.
I take the approach that if they want me to "license" some more of this, then they have to agree to my side of license terms too. Like my money is not given to them, but just licensed for use in a single bank account (they can't transfer it to another account). Also I need to be given access to that bank account so that I can peek inside from time to time as to make sure that they don't use it for funding some terrorist activity or drug dealing. I should be able to block that bank account at any time I see fit. And I reserve the right to terminate the licensing at any time and with no reason - and withdraw my money from their account.
Sounds extreme? No it's not. It's just a mirror of the current bluray disc licensing terms.
Nap.
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Any idea on how to creatively incorporate this in the SP 3.0? Or as a separate "black box"?
http://www.osnews.com/story/23806/HDCP_Master_Key_May_Have_Leaked (http://www.osnews.com/story/23806/HDCP_Master_Key_May_Have_Leaked)
Nap. :green:
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:duh:
I guess this actually means that we'll have soon HDMI 1.5 with HDCP 1.4 to replace the broken ones.
And the SP 3.0 will be delayed once again.
Nap. :duh:
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Hi James,
If by the next week you find your engineers busy with building some "lab use" boxes that have a HDMI input and coaxial/toslink outputs..... I want one of them too....
Nap. :green:
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This just in on the SP3
http://whtmtm.ytmnd.com/
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This just in on the SP3
http://whtmtm.ytmnd.com/
I knew it :green:
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In other news:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/intel-threatens-consumers/ (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/intel-threatens-consumers/)
Nap. :green:
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I guess they are more concerned about the video? Certainly can't be too worked about the audio. My HDMI switch/audio de-embedder can strip out the audio and can pass 192kHz. It is made by Port-ta (model PET4000) and Monoprice sells it under their brand name too ($48.65). Therefore, anyone who has equipment that can record hi-rez PCM and take a coax or optical digital input can. I'd figure by now that these cos. would understand that sooner or later (and probably within a few years), someone will break any encryption scheme.
-
In other news:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/intel-threatens-consumers/ (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/intel-threatens-consumers/)
Nap. :green:
Boo Ho Intel.
I am so sick of these hardware people.
To get the higher bitrates of DTS MA and True HD on a blu-ray you must use the crappy HDMI.
Then they castrate the Coax and optical output, so that it now transmits a lower bitrate than before.
-
Boo Ho Intel.
I am so sick of these hardware people.
To get the higher bitrates of DTS MA and True HD on a blu-ray you must use the crappy HDMI.
Then they castrate the Coax and optical output, so that it now transmits a lower bitrate than before.
I have not tried running DTS MA or True HD through the Port-ta or Monoprice boxes but they claim to be compatible, whatever that means. I've tested 192kHz from 2-channel DVD-A and someone over in the hi-rez music circle indicated (in the thread about taking hi-rez to your DAC) indicated they tested hi-rez from Blu-Ray.
-
Boo Ho Intel.
I am so sick of these hardware people.
To get the higher bitrates of DTS MA and True HD on a blu-ray you must use the crappy HDMI.
Then they castrate the Coax and optical output, so that it now transmits a lower bitrate than before.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82217.120
see post number 130 – “I can confirm that Oppo BDP-83/Portta can do 88.2k for SACD and 192k for DVD-A and
Blu-ray. PS3 (old model) /Portta can do 176.4k for SACD and 192k for Blu-ray (displayed on my W4S DAC2)”
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After raping the competition with HDMI 1.4, Sony has now found a way to do 3D over HDMI 1.3:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/35864/ps3-3d-blu-ray-hands-on (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/35864/ps3-3d-blu-ray-hands-on)
Of course it compromises sound but since it's already compromised by Cinavia, who cares.
Nap.
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Hi,
Happy to report we hope to show the final prototye at the upcoming CEDIA show (Sept 23rd) and be in production shortly after that.
james
Hi James,
did it work out o.k.? Did you show the final prototype? Will the SP-3 be in production soon? Any decisions made regarding the trade in options we have been discussing in this forum?
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Markus,
Yes we showed it and everyone seemed happy we were going with Audio Only.
james
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Hi Markus,
Yes we showed it and everyone seemed happy we were going with Audio Only.
james
James,
does "Audio Only" mean that you demoed with 2 channels only or that the prototype was the audio only version of the SP-3 (2 HDMI connectors, one input, one output)?
Do you think it still needs some maturing (e.g. for the HD audio codecs)? In other words, do you (and does Bryston) think the SP-3 is ready for the market?
Am I to understand that since you didn't answer my other questions that it hasn't been decided yet (start of production, SP-2 trade-in program)?
Thanks!
Markus
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Hi Markus,
Yes we showed it and everyone seemed happy we were going with Audio Only.
james
James,
Can you clarify what audio only means? I assume the SP-3 will handle switching video sources ( Example: DVD player or TV Cable input) from an HDMI input to match the audio outputs and that everything will be in sync. True??
Tony
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Hi Guys,
Yes by audio only I mean no video processing on board just video switching.
It will play all the new HD codex's.
james
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How much trade-in value for us SP 2.0 owners?
Cheers, JohnnyB
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I'll ask again, since I strongly suspect that Bryston has this figured out, they just don't want to tell us yet.
What do we owners of the SP 2.0 get for a trade-in? It will likey be ZERO, NADA since the box and internals are totally different. No advantage to Bryston.
Cheers, JohnnyB
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Hi Folks,
Yes there will be a trade in program for SP2's - I am still trying to figure out what I can do with them so they do not get wasted?
james
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Hi Folks,
Yes there will be a trade in program for SP2's - I am still trying to figure out what I can do with them so they do not get wasted?
james
James, perhaps see what each of the models (SP1, SP1.7, SP2) goes for on Audiogon, take 15% off for a restocking/recertification fee and sell them. It gives loyal customers the option of avoiding the selling hassle or making the choice to try to get a few dollars more and perhaps makes some new customers aware of Bryston quality.
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...............sell them.
It's quite a good idea Phil.
That way, Bryston can offer a decent trade-in price to their loyal customers, and then turn around and get the money back they just spent.
There would likely be lots of people who would buy a used and re-certified SP1/SP1.7/SP2.
The trade-in price would certainly 'lock' the used resale price of any SP1/SP1.7/SP2 on the open market.
brucek
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Last time I checked, SP1.7 are also included in the trade in program.
Hi Folks,
Yes there will be a trade in program for SP2's - I am still trying to figure out what I can do with them so they do not get wasted?
james
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It's quite a good idea Phil.
That way, Bryston can offer a decent trade-in price to their loyal customers, and then turn around and get the money back they just spent.
There would likely be lots of people who would buy a used and re-certified SP1/SP1.7/SP2.
The trade-in price would certainly 'lock' the used resale price of any SP1/SP1.7/SP2 on the open market.
brucek
I figured at that kind of price, Bryston might lose a little, but not tons, but still reward loyal customers and also perhaps gain some new ones. It probably as you noted would do something towards stabilizing values and also cementing some loyalty that way. I would not expect Bryston to offer the trade-in forever. I would expect they would put some reasonable cap on it like prior to June 30, 2011.
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Last time I checked, SP1.7 are also included in the trade in program.
Yes - that was the last indication -some type of sliding scale depending on the model (SP2, SP1.7 or SP1). James, when you read this, while slightly off topic, I'm wondering if there are plans to build a new 2-channel preamp as a follow-up model to the BP-26 with HT bypass. I'm waiting to see the trade-in values and torn to a degree as to whether an expensive processor is the way to go for me with an integrated high quality 2-channel/HT system. I certainly can live with an Integra or Onkyo pre/pro and I guess if something new came out I might be able to rotate it to the secondary basement or bedroom systems.
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Yes - that was the last indication -some type of sliding scale depending on the model (SP2, SP1.7 or SP1). James, when you read this, while slightly off topic, I'm wondering if there are plans to build a new 2-channel preamp as a follow-up model to the BP-26 with HT bypass. I'm waiting to see the trade-in values and torn to a degree as to whether an expensive processor is the way to go for me with an integrated high quality 2-channel/HT system. I certainly can live with an Integra or Onkyo pre/pro and I guess if something new came out I might be able to rotate it to the secondary basement or bedroom systems.
I really second this. I am looking forward for Bryston to come.out with a new pre amp with HT pass thru,if not I guess I have to go with the Moon. P7 or P8. I know the price for the Moon is rather expensive though
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Another vote for a preamp with HT bypass. I am frustrated that there is no good way to share the "best" speakers between my two-channel system and home theater using an HT receiver.
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I'd like to see that also,but if it degrades HT or two channel even a tad,I wouldn't be interested.
I want the best of both worlds :o if possibe.
there must be a reason why the 26 has no pass thru.
I hate having to go behind and swap out cables.
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I'd like to see that also,but if it degrades HT or two channel even a tad,I wouldn't be interested.
I want the best of both worlds :o if possibe.
there must be a reason why the 26 has no pass thru.
I hate having to go behind and swap out cables.
I can't imagine it degrading if done right. I think when the BP26 was designed it was not as popular. I'm just tired of all the processing changes. I'd rather have a good audio preamp and buy a $1,600 pre/pro (I think that is what the Onkyo lists for - not sure) and after 5 years if stuff changes, I'll move it to my basement system. I just grabbed a great deal a month or so ago on a Pioneer 1120 as I don't use the system tons (daytime football on weekends more than anything else) and I already have overkill. I rotate stuff out of the main system either to the basement or bedroom systems. I could probably sell my SP 1.7 more the same or more than I can buy an Onkyo pre/pro.
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Maybe a device based on this:
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/09/29/0513225/HDCP-EncryptionDecryption-Code-Released (http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/09/29/0513225/HDCP-EncryptionDecryption-Code-Released)
would help. I heard that Bryston has some good Linux / C developers :icon_twisted:
Of course, if our politicians are successful at passing bill C-32, it would be illegal even if you don't otherwise infringe copyright (i.e. you don't use it to make copies, but just to decrypt audio when playing genuine DVDs to pass the datastream to your DAC of choice).
Nap.
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I'd rather have a good audio preamp and buy a $1,600 pre/pro (I think that is what the Onkyo lists for - not sure) and after 5 years if stuff changes, I'll move it to my basement system.
Hi Phil,
I am an ONKYO Pro and ONKYO dealer and several of my BRYSTON preamp customers do exactly that. ONKYO for HT processing and BRYSTON for 2 channel.
Many hold HT to a slightly lesser standard sonically since virtually all the sound is "re-engineered" in post production and does not have the same qualities to preserve as live 2 channel audio.
The 5507 and 5508 "retail" for $2249, but street price can be around your $1600.
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John - I was probably thinking of a model from a couple of years back. I'm fine with Onkyo for HT. Many moons back I traded my old 828thx receiver I had used in the bedroom system at one point and it is still going strong for the person who has it. I gave him a multi-channel RCA to db25 cable and he can enjoy any of the new formats. I just got a Pioneer 1120 for the seconday basement system for $500 as it is fine for what I use the system for and it would not be painful to stick a nice Onkyo pre/pro down there in a few years and get a decent multi-channel amp
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Many hold HT to a slightly lesser standard sonically since virtually all the sound is "re-engineered" in post production and does not have the same qualities to preserve as live 2 channel audio.
Napalm approves. I actually hold it at a way lesser standard.
Nap. :P
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Well, it is and will remain a general problem that technology in home theater moves somewhat faster than in the area of analog amplification.
That's what Bryston tried to address with the concept of the SP-1 that was upgradable to a higher degree than most of the pre/pros out there. Even companies that applied a fully modular approach with a bus system - possibly at the cost of sound performance - aren't able to cover all changes with an easy and economic upgrade.
Therefore, it is always dangerous to promise upgradability. If you do and fail to honor your promise, your reputation suffers. If you do offer an upgrade, it has to be somewhat attractive to your customers and even your distributors and dealers might want to have their cut in the upgrade process. To keep everybody happy and make an approriate margin yourself seems very hard to me, since I assume that the margin at Bryston products isn't like the margin let's say on Intel chips, where production cost is the least of the problems - only how to grab more of the consumer surplus. (or how would you interpret the fact that they criple some chips to lower the performance to sell them cheaper - they could - maybe at lower cost - sell them uncripled at a lower price but people willing to spend more would get what they want cheaper, thus realize a consumer surplus).
I don't envy James and the Bryston management as a whole having to make a decision that serves the customers and therefore Bryston...!
Cheers!
Markus
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I'd like to see that also,but if it degrades HT or two channel even a tad,I wouldn't be interested.
I want the best of both worlds :o if possibe.
there must be a reason why the 26 has no pass thru.
I hate having to go behind and swap out cables.
Yep, the SP3 is generally well out of my price range, but, I've been looking at the B100, and the BP-16 as they both have HT Bypass capability. But, they both are single-ended only whereas my current Pre/Pro is balanced only, and I plan to do a simple separation between my 'audio' and 'video' components that would probably take advantage of longer balanced connections.
All my amplification is Bryston (a 9B-ST-THX for the main 5 channels and a 3B-ST-THX for my rears--found a great deal on a pair of Wafer 1s for rear surrounds--though may go with the 4B-ST for mains if I get a Preamp) so since even the newer Pre/Pros don't have enough inputs for my components I've been looking at Preamps with balanced HT Bypass to supplement my system.
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Saw Parasound Halo JC2 now has a new HT bypass version as option. They did it without interfering with the original design of the board (via software I suppose). Wonder if that can also be done with BP26.
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Saw Parasound Halo JC2 now has a new HT bypass version as option. They did it without interfering with the original design of the board (via software I suppose). Wonder if that can also be done with BP26.
Hi klao,
No sorry we can not - the BP26 is not software driven - just the B100 and the BP16 preamp.
james
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You mean the BP16 preamp is software driven, right?
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You mean the BP16 preamp is software driven, right?
Sorry - yes meant BP16
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Hi Folks,
Yes there will be a trade in program for SP2's - I am still trying to figure out what I can do with them so they do not get wasted?
james
Gday James
Have you looked into supplying schools, technical colleges etc with a music department and/or use in a hall/auditorium etc?
To my mind, this could be good PR for Bryston, give it good product exposure to the next generation of audio nuts (and might, depending on how it's structured, provide a tax break).
Cheers
Adrian
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Gday James
Have you looked into supplying schools, technical colleges etc with a music department and/or use in a hall/auditorium etc?
To my mind, this could be good PR for Bryston, give it good product exposure to the next generation of audio nuts (and might, depending on how it's structured, provide a tax break).
Cheers
Adrian
Not a bad idea - I will look at that.
james
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3D without glasses:
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/363113/toshiba_launch_no-glasses_3d_tv_year_japan/ (http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/363113/toshiba_launch_no-glasses_3d_tv_year_japan/)
Looks to me like the perfect opportunity to introduce yet another HDMI version :lol:
Nap.
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Herd the SP-3 today very good detail and dynamics's will be in production in 5 to 6 weeks.
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James, Are you going to be at Audio One next Saturday?
Audio-One
SAT,OCT 30TH BRYSTON DAY
The new Bryston BDP1 digital music player and SP3 surround processor/pre-amplifier will officially be launched at our Bryston Event.
Heralding in a new era of high calibre music playback, the BDP1 ($2195) will play any type of music (Flac,WAV, MP3) via a USB connection. This means music stored on a hard drive or USB stick can be easily controlled and played with the BDP1, with no limits on sonic performance.
The Bryston SP3 is a surround pre-amplifier built with the audiophile in mind. The SP3 is designed for ultimate sonic accuracy and can be purchased as an audio only multi-channel pre-amp or with an optional video board loaded with HDMI inputs.
As usual we will also be featuring Bryston's legendary power amplifiers, including the massive 28Bsst2 1000 watt mono amplifiers.
Jeff
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James, Are you going to be at Audio One next Saturday?
Audio-One
SAT,OCT 30TH BRYSTON DAY
The new Bryston BDP1 digital music player and SP3 surround processor/pre-amplifier will officially be launched at our Bryston Event.
Heralding in a new era of high calibre music playback, the BDP1 ($2195) will play any type of music (Flac,WAV, MP3) via a USB connection. This means music stored on a hard drive or USB stick can be easily controlled and played with the BDP1, with no limits on sonic performance.
The Bryston SP3 is a surround pre-amplifier built with the audiophile in mind. The SP3 is designed for ultimate sonic accuracy and can be purchased as an audio only multi-channel pre-amp or with an optional video board loaded with HDMI inputs.
As usual we will also be featuring Bryston's legendary power amplifiers, including the massive 28Bsst2 1000 watt mono amplifiers.
Jeff
Is this the place in FL? http://www.audio-one.com/index.php
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Herd the SP-3 today very good detail and dynamics's will be in production in 5 to 6 weeks.
Did you have the opportunity to compare it to the SP-2 or BP-26?
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Is this the place in FL? http://www.audio-one.com/index.php
No, they are located in Vaughan just north of Toronto. WWW.AUDIO-ONE.CA
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No, they are located in Vaughan just north of Toronto. WWW.AUDIO-ONE.CA
Hi,
Yes I plan on being at Audio One.
James
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Hi James,
"...The new Bryston BDP1 digital music player and SP3 surround processor/pre-amplifier will officially be launched at our Bryston Event. ..."
Will we be able to get SP2 trade-in value details and SP3 pricing on Saturday ?
Thanks.
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Hi James,
"...The new Bryston BDP1 digital music player and SP3 surround processor/pre-amplifier will officially be launched at our Bryston Event. ..."
Will we be able to get SP2 trade-in value details and SP3 pricing on Saturday ?
Thanks.
Hi - the trade in issues we are still discussing so I am open to suggestions when I see you there.
james
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Hi - the trade in issues we are still discussing so I am open to suggestions when I see you there.
james
Hi James,
And a trade in with the SP 1.7 ?
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Hi,
Yes we are looking at all models and trying to come up with a fair approach for everyone.
james
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Hi,
Yes we are looking at all models and trying to come up with a fair approach for everyone.
james
Don't forget SP1 and SP1.7 that were upgraded to SP2's. :)
brucek
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Trading-in used equipment back to the manufacturer could really open the proverbial “can of worms” on many fronts. If individuals wish to upgrade, sell their equipment privately and then move on. Seems to be a very simple solution for everyone involved.
Be well…
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Hi Folks,
We are considering maintaining production of the SP2 because if you do not need or want HDMI (hi-res) the SP2 still makes a great sound. Also the SP2 will still be much cheaper than the SP3.
james
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Totally agree with laundrew,sell private and move on.
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With the world slow to spend I would say as long as the SP2 sells keep making it...........
Is there a price on the SP3 ? (I am a little behind on SP3 info)
Will it be available in a rack mount 19 with rack mount holes?
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About 9500 to 10000$.
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Hi Folks,
We are considering maintaining production of the SP2 because if you do not need or want HDMI (hi-res) the SP2 still makes a great sound. Also the SP2 will still be much cheaper than the SP3.
james
Hi James,
I think that makes a lot of sense. I have a SP1.7 in my system and find it very enjoyable and could consider using it for many years assuming that future releases continue to have Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 formats.
On a separate note are you still overing the upgrade from the SP1.7 to the SP2?
Best,
John
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Is there still plans for an outboard box with HDMI inputs?
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Is there still plans for an outboard box with HDMI inputs?
Hi Phil,
No we have given up on that idea.
james
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I am still enjoying my SP1.7 with analog 5.1 input from my (Hi-Res) source. ;)
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I am still enjoying my SP1.7 with analog 5.1 input from my (Hi-Res) source. ;)
Same here
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It would be a HUGE mistake for bryston to take trade-ins ( imho). I have always wondered and speculated what companies do with such trades.....get it? I think it could actually hurt Bryston's rep as then people would start saying bryston is stripping the units and using second-hand parts to make their new units...
Sell it and move on.That is the nature of technology.....
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It would be a HUGE mistake for bryston to take trade-ins ( imho). I have always wondered and speculated what companies do with such trades.....get it? I think it could actually hurt Bryston's rep as then people would start saying bryston is stripping the units and using second-hand parts to make their new units...
Sell it and move on.That is the nature of technology.....
This has crossed my mind has well.
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I think James mentioned that he was considering modifying the trade in units to multi channel analogue pre-amps, and selling them as such, nothing misleading there, in my opinion.
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James,
the SP2 shows "Clipping" on its display if the incoming analog signal has more than 2V (Bypass excluded).
the same for the SP3?
al.
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James,
the SP2 shows "Clipping" on its display if the incoming analog signal has more than 2V (Bypass excluded).
the same for the SP3?
al.
Hi Al,
The 'clipping' overload is a THX thing - SP3 has no THX.
james
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It would be a HUGE mistake for bryston to take trade-ins ( imho). I have always wondered and speculated what companies do with such trades.....get it? I think it could actually hurt Bryston's rep as then people would start saying bryston is stripping the units and using second-hand parts to make their new units...
Sell it and move on.That is the nature of technology.....
I don't agree. Bryston has always followed a different approach regarding product upgrades or if technology advanced compared to other manufacturers. I think customer swallow too much if they accept that they should dump their equipment and are supposed to throw in their money on a yearly basis due to technology changes.
- First, Bryston technology is sonically superior to most of the stuff out there to an extent that frequent changes of the gear are not necessary to stay on top.
- Second, Bryston keeps to its word. And the promise was that the modular design of the SP-1, SP-1.7 and SP-2 allowed for upgrades as technology advanced. Now we are at a point where an upgrade of the older units isn't feasible anymore. I think, Bryston won't promise such an upgradability again for the SP-3, just as they reduced the warranty on the digital components to 5 years (the SP-1 had 20 year warranty on everything!), but I expect they still would honor the warranty on a SP-1 if it was 19 years old. With the SP-3 upgrade, whatever it will look like, it is not to make big bucks, but to keep a promise.
- Third, if you label a product as 'refurbished', everybody knows that it has been used before. If it comes with a check-out sheet from Bryston and is covered with a warranty from Bryston, customers won't mind that it has been used before, because Bryston guarantees that the unit is and will remain within specification. The reputation wouldn't suffer if it is made transparent what the traded-in units are used for. There wouldn't be any room for speculations...
I think that once Bryston has disclosed what the terms of the upgrade/trade-in are, every owner of a SP-1, SP-1.7 or SP-2 can decide for himself if he stays with Bryston and whether trading in the unit or selling it is the better solution. The trade-in would certainly be more convenient than selling it yourself.
Another 2 cent contribution. ;)
Markus
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I agree with the prior post. It is common practice for some high end cos. to offer trade-ins. HT processors changes more rapidly than many other things and it is a nice practice to keep customers loyal and buying your new products.
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I can't afford buying new at this point in time. I would certainly consider refurbished Bryston gear. :thumb:
Steve
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I can't afford buying new at this point in time. I would certainly consider refurbished Bryston gear. :thumb:
Steve
It's also a very tough thing to buy expensive digital or video the way technology changes. Buying used makes lots of sense when it comes to high end digital.
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Well, in the past couple of years a lot of audio companies have went down the tubes.I really like Bryston products and want them to be around for a long time to come . I want to be able to purchase new bryston products in the future.Demanding a "trade in" program might not be finacially healthy for bryston in this climate.....just my 2 cents....
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Given the price of the new pre/pro and their intention to continue to manufacture the SP2, I'm not sure there are going to be massive trade-ins from every Bryston owner. Taking the trade-ins will spur sales of the new pre/pro for those that do it. I'm not sure how your desire to purchase new products is going to be hurt? :scratch: Other high end companies have done trades. Linn did it with some of their early pre/pros as did others. I see it as keeping some people Bryston owners vs. looking at other pre/pros. Time will tell
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Yeah, I know what you mean.There are pros and cons...tough call......
What's the msrp of the new unit?
-
James,
are there any pics of the SP3's remote???
al.
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James,
are there any pics of the SP3's remote???
al.
It will look very similar to the SP2 remote.
James
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It will look very similar to the SP2 remote.
James
Dear James, I finally are purchased but unfortunately sp2 resets itself every two minutes what can I do?
grazie.
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Dear James, I finally are purchased but unfortunately sp2 resets itself every two minutes what can I do?
grazie.
It sounds like Low Voltage
james
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It sounds like Low Voltage
james
No it only happens with 6ch with spdif works ok
grazie,ple
excuse my English
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No it only happens with 6ch with spdif works ok
grazie,ple
excuse my English
I hit it in just 6ch bypass initialization
bye
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Hi Phil,
No we have given up on that idea.
james
It may have already, I have not checked BUT.......
When Audio and Video are done via seperate routes at some point the HDMI cables needs a 1:2 split, it would be excellent if the SP3 had both inputs and ONE output for on going HDMI signal - audio / video or audio&video if choice is possible.
Thank you. (Fear I might be a little late with this request!)
-
What functions will the ethernet port provide?
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What functions will the ethernet port provide?
Software downloads and remote troubleshooting.
james
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Software downloads and remote troubleshooting.
james
No IP control? This would work well with a BDP-1. All IP control solution.
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Hi Folks,
We are considering maintaining production of the SP2 because if you do not need or want HDMI (hi-res) the SP2 still makes a great sound. Also the SP2 will still be much cheaper than the SP3.
james
Hi James,
Since you have mentioned the above ,will there be some possible mods for the back panel ?
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Hi James,
Since you have mentioned the above ,will there be some possible mods for the back panel ?
Hi,
No plans for that it is just that we still sell SP-2's and a number of customers have told me they have no interest in HDMI.
james
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James,
You still do upgrades from SP1.7 to SP2?
Tony
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James,
You still do upgrades from SP1.7 to SP2?
Tony
At this point yes but we do very few.
james
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I just played with the SP3 at Audio One !
Thanks to Steve & James for bringing it and Anthony, Carlo & Gino for hosting.
:thumb:
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I just played with the SP3 at Audio One !
Thanks to Steve & James for bringing it and Anthony, Carlo & Gino for hosting.
:thumb:
cool! what is your impression, BrystonFan? and what setup did they have?
al.
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I just played with the SP3 at Audio One !
Thanks to Steve & James for bringing it and Anthony, Carlo & Gino for hosting.
I also stopped by Audio One for the Bryston Demo day. They had the SP3 hooked up to a Krell amp, B&W speakers (CT800 fronts) and a Paradigm sub. I did not have a chance to compare it to anything but the sound was fantastic, they were playing the lossless tracks from Star Trek and Ironman 2. :thumb:
They had a great demo system for the BDP as well; BDP, BDA, BP26, 28's driving a pair of PMC EB-1's. Great system James, thanks for taking the time to talk.
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They had a great demo system for the BDP as well; BDP, BDA, BP26, 28's driving a pair of PMC EB-1's.
Now that is something I'd have liked to have heard :D
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I also stopped by Audio One for the Bryston Demo day. They had the SP3 hooked up to a Krell amp, B&W speakers (CT800 fronts) and a Paradigm sub. I did not have a chance to compare it to anything but the sound was fantastic, they were playing the lossless tracks from Star Trek and Ironman 2. :thumb:
They had a great demo system for the BDP as well; BDP, BDA, BP26, 28's driving a pair of PMC EB-1's. Great system James, thanks for taking the time to talk.
Hi al.
JeffO hit it on the nail...
I may be a bit bias in my evaluation - but this is another quality product by Bryston.
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James,
is the SPV-1 Video Switcher still in production?
would it work with the SP-3??
al.
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James,
is the SPV-1 Video Switcher still in production?
would it work with the SP-3??
al.
Hi Al.
No we have a few left but no plans at this point to use with SP3.
james
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Hi,
Will the SP3 be available in black as a 'pro' 19" rack mount version - with rack mounting holes?
Thank you,
Andy.
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Hi,
Will the SP3 be available in black as a 'pro' 19" rack mount version - with rack mounting holes?
Thank you,
Andy.
Hi Andy - maybe not immediately but certainly as we go along.
james
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James,
the 'old' buttons of the BDA-1 will be replaced by the new ones (like the SP-3 and BDP-1) as they are soon not longer available, correct?!
what about the remote like BR-2 for example? will it have the new bigger buttons as well?
i'm asking myself if the remote must be redesigned because of the different size... :scratch:
al.
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James,
the 'old' buttons of the BDA-1 will be replaced by the new ones (like the SP-3 and BDP-1) as they are soon not longer available, correct?!
what about the remote like BR-2 for example? will it have the new bigger buttons as well?
i'm asking myself if the remote must be redesigned because of the different size... :scratch:
al.
We are still going to be able to use the SP2 remote just the skin will change.
james
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I don't know about Bryston's trade-in history but since selling a used product yourself usually nets more than trading it in, what is a reasonable asking price for a 4 year old SP2 (US)? Original owner, perfect condition with Bryston box, receipt, etc.
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James,
I have been thinking about a trade-in program for previous owners of Bryston SP1//1.7/2, see the following:
1) SP2 - $4-5,000 + discount (% + cash refund) on additional Bryston gear
2) SP1.7 - $5-6,000 + discount (% + cash refund) on additional Bryston gear
3) SP1.0 - $6-7,000 + discount (% + cash refund) on additional Bryston gear
Anyways, just another idea that tries to help loyal customers and create some incentive to buy additional Bryston gear?
And what is the latest for release date -SP3 :green:?
Ciao,
Luigi
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Hi Luigi - hope late this year very early next we will be in production. Thanks for the input on the trade in issue- its a tough one!
james
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Hi James, all,
I'm thinking about upgrading my system (bp26, 28sst, 10b pro sub, the latter very much needed with the Quad ESL's) with the BDA-1. Would this sp3.0 be the better choice, or would I have to go for the bda-1? I am right in supposing the SP3 includes a BDA 1 and 10b pro sub?
Another question: I now have a digital tv out, cable tuner, BCD-1, a DVD machine (later on will change for a Bluray) and the digital interface of the Apple Airtunes. Coming up is a Network streamer. What would be the optimal connection scheme for all those digital sources on the BDA-!. Or the SP3 for that matter. Toslink outs on the TV set, Cable tuner and Airtunes.
I definitely need an option for the digital out of my MAcbook, for the Digital Concert Hall of the Berlin Phil (digital-concert-hall.com/)is too wunderful to miss. Or can I hook that up to the BDP in some way?
Thanx in advance to you all!
Marius
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Hi James, all,
I'm thinking about upgrading my system (bp26, 28sst, 10b pro sub, the latter very much needed with the Quad ESL's) with the BDA-1. Would this sp3.0 be the better choice, or would I have to go for the bda-1? I am right in supposing the SP3 includes a BDA 1 and 10b pro sub?
Another question: I now have a digital tv out, cable tuner, BCD-1, a DVD machine (later on will change for a Bluray) and the digital interface of the Apple Airtunes. Coming up is a Network streamer. What would be the optimal connection scheme for all those digital sources on the BDA-!. Or the SP3 for that matter. Toslink outs on the TV set, Cable tuner and Airtunes.
I definitely need an option for the digital out of my MAcbook, for the Digital Concert Hall of the Berlin Phil (digital-concert-hall.com/)is too wunderful to miss. Or can I hook that up to the BDP in some way?
Thanx in advance to you all!
Marius
Marius,
If you are going to stay with a 2 channel system then I would recommend you go with the BDA-1 over the SP3. The SP3 is optomized for a multichannel system while the BDA is optomized for 2 channel. I have heard both and they sound great in their respective systems but I do not believe the SP3 will sound as good as the BDA in a 2 channel system (but it would probably be close).
Jeff
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Hi James,
Do you know what the approximate price will be for the Audio only version of the SP3?
thanks
Richard
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Hi James,
Do you know what the approximate price will be for the Audio only version of the SP3?
Richard
We think between 9 - 10K
James
-
We think between 9 - 10K
James
Thanks for that, i did see a figure like that in a previous post but i assumed that was for the video SP3 version, i think a year..ish ago you were talking around the 5K mark for the audio version.
-
Thanks for that, i did see a figure like that in a previous post but i assumed that was for the video SP3 version, i think a year..ish ago you were talking around the 5K mark for the audio version.
Hi
No sorry the Audio only version was always in that price range. In fact we are thinking that we will not be offering an internal video version. Based on the compromises and also the ever changing video requirements
James
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James,
On the SP3.....
1) One or two zones?
2) For keypad control are you offering the RS232 and the ethernet? Or, is the ethernet reserved for updates? If the RS232 is the keypad control (for Creston, AMX and others) is there an adapter that can go from an ethernet connection to RS-232? My current keypads in the home use Cat5 with an ethernet end which ultimately plug into my McIntosh MX120 rear for control.
Thanks. Dave.
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James,
On the SP3.....
1) One or two zones?
2) For keypad control are you offering the RS232 and the ethernet? Or, is the ethernet reserved for updates? If the RS232 is the keypad control (for Creston, AMX and others) is there an adapter that can go from an ethernet connection to RS-232? My current keypads in the home use Cat5 with an ethernet end which ultimately plug into my McIntosh MX120 rear for control.
Thanks. Dave.
Hi Dave,
One zone - asking engineering on question 2.
james
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Hi Dave,
From Engineering
Two zones (main and remote)
SP3 will have IP control.
Although the mcintosh controllers have an RJ45 jack, the pinout is not standard ethernet.
-
Marius,
If you are going to stay with a 2 channel system then I would recommend you go with the BDA-1 over the SP3. The SP3 is optomized for a multichannel system while the BDA is optomized for 2 channel. I have heard both and they sound great in their respective systems but I do not believe the SP3 will sound as good as the BDA in a 2 channel system (but it would probably be close).
Jeff
Jeff,
I am having a similar dilemma, where I wish to have the best of both worlds. Given your advice would the BDA & SP3 provide the opportunity for the ultimate (?) 2 channel and surround sound. Or, is it just better to go for the BP26 and SP3 ???
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Jeff,
I am having a similar dilemma, where I wish to have the best of both worlds. Given your advice would the BDA & SP3 provide the opportunity for the ultimate (?) 2 channel and surround sound. Or, is it just better to go for the BP26 and SP3 ???
I have not heard the analogue passthru on the SP3, but assuming it is as good as the SP1.7 and SP2 (a safe assumption right James) then the BDA/SP3 combination would be hard to beat.
My personal ultimate would be 2 separate systems, one for 2 channel BP26/BDA and one for multichannel SP3, this way you can optomize speaker selection and position for both.
Unlike James I do not have the space available for 2 (or 3) separate systems without moving some of the wife's stuff :nono: so I have had an SP1.7 in a 5.1 system for over 6 years. I am very happy with this unit, the DD and DTS processing is hard to beat, and have not found anything worth replacing it with yet.
With the SP3 I hope to get the same sound quality plus the new lossless codecs. I am thinking of teaming it with the new OPPO 93 (plays movies and Flac files from a USB drive as well as any shiny disc) to get excellent surround and good 2 channel audio.
Jeff
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How would you integrate the BDA-1 with the SP3 or (SP1.7/SP2) ?
:scratch:
-
How would you integrate the BDA-1 with the SP3 or (SP1.7/SP2) ?
Connect all the 2 channel digital sources (CDP, computer, BDP) to the BDA-1 then connect the analogue out of the BDA to one of the 2 channel analogue inputs on the SP. Set the SP to 2 channel passthru.
The strength of the Bryston SP1.7 and SP2 is its analogue passthru.
-
Thanks JeffO
Got it. :thumb:
I think I will wait for a BDA-1 & BDP-1 combo special pricing in the new year.
Sharpen the Bryston pencil James! :icon_lol:
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Attention Blu-Ray fans. You've already been obsoleted:
http://www.blu-raydisc.info/format-spec/r3-spec.php (http://www.blu-raydisc.info/format-spec/r3-spec.php)
Knowing $ony I am confident that they will use the opportunity to introduce a new HDMI version too.
ROFLMAO.
Nap. :rotflmao:
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Attention Blu-Ray fans. You've already been obsoleted:
http://www.blu-raydisc.info/format-spec/r3-spec.php (http://www.blu-raydisc.info/format-spec/r3-spec.php)
Knowing $ony I am confident that they will use the opportunity to introduce a new HDMI version too.
ROFLMAO.
Nap. :rotflmao:
Did you even read that page or you just like to stir up trouble? It's a new recordable format for blu-ray, nothing unlike the introduction of recordable media for cd-rom, film, etc.
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Did you even read that page or you just like to stir up trouble? It's a new recordable format for blu-ray, nothing unlike the introduction of recordable media for cd-rom, film, etc.
The recordable CDs had exactly the same capacity as the non-recordable ones and they were specifically designed to be compatible with existing readers/players.
Did you get that part where these BDXL discs are double the capacity of existing BD discs and existing BD players will not be able to read them?
Nap. :duh:
-
Since it's designed for professional applications, consumers watching blu-ray movies won't even care about this.
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Since it's designed for professional applications, consumers watching blu-ray movies won't even care about this.
Pioneer, Sharp, Panasonic and Buffalo are already out with consumer products. Including Blu-Ray standalone players/recorders.
Nap.
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Hi James,
any news regarding the production launch of the SP-3...
...hope late this year very early next we will be in production.
Have you started or are all ressources focussed on building BDP-1s?
And, of course, the though one... any news there? Any international pricing yet?
Thanks for the input on the trade in issue- its a tough one!
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Markus,
There will definitely be a trade in policy but no pricing details as of yet.
james
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Hi Markus,
There will definitely be a trade in policy but no pricing details as of yet.
james
...the world (including me!!!) can't await the launch of the SP3 and the trade-in options!!!
al.
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How about and deal for new owners and not just current owners (OK I’m being a bit selfish here but if you don’t ask and all that). I was thinking a special on the SP 3 and BDP-1 if bought together? This would be enough to get me to buy the BDP-1 and I could talk SWMBO into the idea as I would be saving money!
Anyway, on another note – any further news on the SP3 or specification? I am hanging on for this processor but I can’t put up with using the terrible pre-outs on my AVR for too much longer!
-
James,
let's say the trade-in program is reality:
if someone then wants to trade in the SP2 for a SP3...is the condition of the SP2 important (things like scratches and so on...)?
i mean is a rough used processor less worth than a slightly used one?
al.
and if you are back from NYC...how was it?
-
As a reminder on the sp3.
http://whtmtm.ytmnd.com/
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James, are there any new videos of the SP3 like you did it for the BDP-1 ??
al.
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James, are there any new videos of the SP3 like you did it for the BDP-1 ??
al.
Hi Al
No sorry.
james
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James,
will the CES 2011 in Las Vegas be the venue where the SP-3 upgrade policy will be officially announced?
Just curious... :wink:
Markus
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...hopefully, Markus :green:! the world is waiting for an announcement.
al.
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Dear Bryston,
I am considering a Bryston SP3 late this year. A couple of quick questions:
1) Is there a firm release date?
2) What are the outside dimensions of the until? My rack is only 17.5" in depth so I am hoping that the until is not too deep.
Cheers,
John
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Dear Bryston,
I am considering a Bryston SP3 late this year. A couple of quick questions:
1) Is there a firm release date?
2) What are the outside dimensions of the until? My rack is only 17.5" in depth so I am hoping that the until is not too deep.
Cheers,
John
Hi John - no firm release date but I am hoping the first part of this year. I will check when I get back from the show but it is 4 rack spaces high and 17 or 19 inches wide. I think depth is 13 inches.
james
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Hi John - no firm release date but I am hoping the first part of this year.
James, what happened to the...
Hi Luigi - hope late this year very early next we will be in production.
Does "hoping the first part of the year" mean hoping for June, but realistically it might get christmas 2011? :scratch:
Are there reasons you can talk about? Is your production capacity completely exhausted delivering all the BDP-1s that are being ordered or have new issues arisen with the SP-3 or is the procurement of the digital board again the limiting factor?
Cheers!
Markus
P.S. I "had" to buy a new 3D JVC projector because the SP-3 doesn't seem to be anywhere near... :(
-
Hi,
The main problem is that the powers that be are changing the requirements for approvals as we go plus the complexity of the product overall.
i do not want to release a product without complete testing.
james
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Personally, the speed that the HT formats are changing is going to be bad for business.In 5yrs alone we went from anolog(rca) to DVI to HDMI 1.1 &1.2 to HDMI 1.3 and now 1.4.....in 5yrs.
If one was to spend the full dollars for every upgrade,well it is crazy.
So James....take your time and get it right,so all Brystanacs will be happy for years(not a year) to come.I mean its CES and the SP2 was used,,,how cool is that!A sure sign of longetivity.
-
no firm release date but I am hoping the first part of this year
That's great news James
Even if it's a bit too soon to know the precise release date, rather than folks keep asking can you say when you will be able to confirm it ? (and the trade in arrangements...)
And on a related note, do you release worldwide at the same time, or do it in phases ? (reason for asking being that I'm in the UK requiring a different PSU)
Ian
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That's great news James
Even if it's a bit too soon to know the precise release date, rather than folks keep asking can you say when you will be able to confirm it ? (and the trade in arrangements...)
And on a related note, do you release worldwide at the same time, or do it in phases ? (reason for asking being that I'm in the UK requiring a different PSU)
Ian
Hi,
Usually release in Canada first as any issues are easily dealt with.
james
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Usually release in Canada first as any issues are easily dealt with.
Got to love living in the Great White North!!!
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James,
Can you provide an update with the SP3 regarding price range, specs, timeframe, etc? Even if they aren't solid. I'm probably going to decide if I will stay "downsized" with two-channel or bring back a HT setup soon.
Jim
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James,
Can you provide an update with the SP3 regarding price range, specs, timeframe, etc? Even if they aren't solid. I'm probably going to decide if I will stay "downsized" with two-channel or bring back a HT setup soon.
Jim
Hi Jim,
We are in the middle of building 6 units and then I should be able to give you details - need another month.
james
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Thanks James. I will hold out a little longer. -- Jim
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Hi Jim,
We are in the middle of building 6 units and then I should be able to give you details - need another month.
james
Hi James,
If you need a beta tester for the SP3.0, I would be more than willing to help out, and I am located in Canada.
My current Bryston gear consists of:
SP1.7
7B ST X 4
5B ST <- was just in for servicing and let me say you guys are the absolute best when it comes to service!
4B NRB
I am looking at adding soon a BDA-1 and BDP-1.
I have lots of HDMI sources to test the unit with, Blu-ray (Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD, Panasonic DMP-BD55 and DMP-BD10, PS3 80 GIG), HD DVD (HD-A35, HD-XA2, HD-A1, XBOX 360), BEV HD PVR, HTPC. My primary display is a JVC HD750/RS20.
If you are interested just send me a PM.
Thanks for your consideration.
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Hi Jim,
We are in the middle of building 6 units and then I should be able to give you details - need another month.
james
James,
how are the six prototypes doing? Anything you can talk about?
Cheers
Markus
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James,
how are the six prototypes doing? Anything you can talk about?
Cheers
Markus
Making headway Markus - 2 units have to be sent to Dolby and DTS for approvals and 1 is coming home with me :thumb:
james
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Hi James,
No THX or THX Ultra 2 testing required ?
-
I believe James had previously noted no THX. For specs, there is a limitation on the analog inputs which caused some clipping on certain program material with the SP2/SP1.7
-
Hi Jim,
We are in the middle of building 6 units and then I should be able to give you details - need another month.
james
Is there any details you can provide about the specifications and price of the SP3? I'm enjoying the BDP but need to decide if i'm going to pull the trigger on the BDA or the SP3.
-
I definitely join those interested in the SP3. I thought I would keep my current pre/pro forever, but as it gets longer in the tooth, I am reconsidering.
If I decide to go with something more contemporary, the SP3 would be a front runner, depending on its specs and pricing.
-
I definitely join those interested in the SP3. I thought I would keep my current pre/pro forever, but as it gets longer in the tooth, I am reconsidering.
If I decide to go with something more contemporary, the SP3 would be a front runner, depending on its specs and pricing.
Welcome back 66 - glad your OK.
We are currently building 6 units - if all goes well we are finally ready to go.
Retail looks to be about $9500 US.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44296)
james
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Picture of the booty? :drool:
-
Much better looking James !
Well done...
8)
-> no picture of the (final) back ?
-
Hi MOZ
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44351)
james
-
...9500 US$ with or without videoboard?
al.
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...9500 US$ with or without videoboard?
al.
NO VIDEO! We are rethinking that whole issue :scratch:
james
-
Nice setup :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44352)
james
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...so the HDMI ins/outs (picture above) cannot be used?
will there be an outboard video solution??
al.
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...so the HDMI ins/outs (picture above) cannot be used?
will there be an outboard video solution??
al.
Hi Al,
No the HDMI is used - we strip off the Audio on each specific input and just loop the Video out to do with as you please.
james
-
...what sample rates are accepted by the SP3's usb ??
al.
-
...what sample rates are accepted by the SP3's usb ??
al.
Standard streaming 48/16.
james
-
Will there be an option for the video?If there is what will be the probable price?
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Will there be an option for the video?If there is what will be the probable price?
We are rethinking it - with all the changes and issues (3D etc) that video is going through we feel it is better left alone for now. There is room in the SP3 chassis to allow for a video section if we decided to move in that direction.
james
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Hello James,
Any details about the remote and specifications you can share? i.e. DAC(s) used for the audio, IR in or just RS-232? How can you program the 12-volt trigger? Trim settings on inputs? Re-assignable inputs? It was hard to see the text in the rear-view picture, but 1 L/R and 1 sub balanced outs right?
How is the SP3 sounding? Better than the BP26?
Thanks,
Jim
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Hello James,
Any details about the remote and specifications you can share? i.e. DAC(s) used for the audio, IR in or just RS-232? How can you program the 12-volt trigger? Trim settings on inputs? Re-assignable inputs? It was hard to see the text in the rear-view picture, but 1 L/R and 1 sub balanced outs right?
How is the SP3 sounding? Better than the BP26?
Thanks,
Jim
Hi Jim,
The remote looks identical to the SP2 except the overlay is different of course.The DSP uses Cirrus Logic CS- 4398. Remote is IR and 232 and Network.
Trigger is programed from front panel menu.
No input trim just output trim.
Yes to re-assignable digital inputs.
One Sub Balanced out but we have 2 AUX outs we can use for more subs.
Only played with it in Surround so far so need more time - I think I would still give the BP26 the nod in stereo use.
james
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44355)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44356)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44357)
-
Nice - Thanks James.
Still in discussions for a possible SP2 trade-in program to SP3 right?
-
Nice - Thanks James.
Still in discussions for a possible SP2 trade-in program to SP3 right?
Yes - trying to decide how we will handle that. Looks like a bill of sale will be the first requirement.
james
-
Yes - trying to decide how we will handle that. Looks like a bill of sale will be the first requirement.
james
...who will have the chance to trade in "his" SP2??
al.
-
...who will have the chance to trade in "his" SP2??
al.
Sorry Al - not sure of your question?
james
-
Sorry Al - not sure of your question?
james
ok, sorry.
i wanted to know if the SP1, SP1.7 and SP2 can be considered as a sure trade-in?
al.
-
ok, sorry.
i wanted to know if the SP1, SP1.7 and SP2 can be considered as a sure trade-in?
al.
Yes - we are just trying to decide the mechanics of how we will structure it. The first requirement is a bill of sale for the SP processor as a starting point.
By the way we will probably continue to manufacture the SP2 as it is still a popular model for those that do not have a need for HDMI and want a quality stereo preamp/processor.
james
-
In other words its just a multi channel pre
-
In other words its just a multi channel pre
I guess you could describe it that way but that has always been the case?
The SP3 Surround Processor will do all the new High Def formats but pass on the video - exactly the same as the SP2 does now with standard DTS and DD.
Both the SP2 (5.1) and the SP3 (7.1) have Analog Pass-throughs.
james
-
Hi James,
So then, for those of us who don't have an interest in the HDMI, will the SP3 be available without it?
Carl
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Hi James,
So then, for those of us who don't have an interest in the HDMI, will the SP3 be available without it?
Carl
Hi Carl
Had not thought about that but I would assume not as removing parts etc. from an existing product does not really save you much in overall costs. Plus you would have to develop all new software.
James
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Hi, new poster but have been watching this thread for some time.
Regarding the trade in program, will upgraded SPs be eligible as well? I have a 1.7 that was upgraded to an SP2 and all the necessary papers on it - original BOS as well as upgrade paperwork.
Thanks,
Ted
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Hi, new poster but have been watching this thread for some time.
Regarding the trade in program, will upgraded SPs be eligible as well? I have a 1.7 that was upgraded to an SP2 and all the necessary papers on it - original BOS as well as upgrade paperwork.
Thanks,
Ted
Hi Ted
Yes as long as you have proof of purchase from and authorized dealer initially you are fine.
James
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Hi James,
When you say "Remote is IR, 232 and Network", does that mean the SP-3 can be controlled by an iPhone or iPad app like the BDP-1?
If so, do you have any pics that show what the interface might look like?
Thanks,
Gary L
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Hi James,
When you say "Remote is IR, 232 and Network", does that mean the SP-3 can be controlled by an iPhone or iPad app like the BDP-1?
If so, do you have any pics that show what the interface might look like?
Thanks,
Gary L
Hi Gary,
I will have to ask the engineer on that one but I know it has an Eternet interface which will allow us to view your unit on the network for updates and trouble shooting etc.
james
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Hi James:
I bought a second hand SP-1 and had it upgraded to an SP-1.7 by an authorized dealer. I don't have the original bill of sale. Would the 1.7 upgrade receipt be valid for an SP-3 trade-in ?
Thanks, Steve
-
An outboard video would be nice
-
An outboard video would be nice
Hi Deftone,
We may look at that as the video market seems so volitile.
james
-
I am considering the trade-in route in the future. I surely have proof of purchase from a Bryston authorized dealer on my Bryston SP1.7 processor.
Thank you James for the trade-in consideration.
Hi Ted
Yes as long as you have proof of purchase from and authorized dealer initially you are fine.
James
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Hi James:
I bought a second hand SP-1 and had it upgraded to an SP-1.7 by an authorized dealer. I don't have the original bill of sale. Would the 1.7 upgrade receipt be valid for an SP-3 trade-in ?
Thanks, Steve
Hi Steve,
Yes - should be OK - if you give me the serial number I should be able to trace it back.
james
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Hi MOZ
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44351)
james
James,
the SP3 has 4 analog XLR inputs. i'm not sure what they can be used for...is it 2x stereo?
the other two XLR inputs on the right are digital, correct?
al.
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James,
the SP3 has 4 analog XLR inputs. i'm not sure what they can be used for...is it 2x stereo?
the other two XLR inputs on the right are digital, correct?
al.
Correct sir :D
James
-
thanks, James. reason why i was asking: Sempre Audio's website states that the SP3 will have an analog 7.1 XLR input.
al.
-
thanks, James. reason why i was asking: Sempre Audio's website states that the SP3 will have an analog 7.1 XLR input.
al.
RCA 7.1 'IN' not XLR.
7.1 RCA and XLR 'OUT'
AES EBU Digital stereo "IN" x 2
AES EBU analog stereo pairs 'IN' x 2
-
RCA 7.1 'IN' not XLR.
7.1 RCA and XLR 'OUT'
AES EBU Digital stereo "IN" x 2
AES EBU analog stereo pairs 'IN' x 2
yeah! and that's the way it goes... :green:
al.
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James,
Will the HDMI inputs support PCM, bitstream and DSD?
Jim
-
James,
Will the HDMI inputs support PCM, bitstream and DSD?
Jim
I do not think DSD but I will check.
James
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In looking at the back panel, I'm not seeing the low voltage control block for turning on other devices. Is that feature no longer being provided?
-
Is the volume control for the SP3 a lot like the BP26?
-
In looking at the back panel, I'm not seeing the low voltage control block for turning on other devices. Is that feature no longer being provided?
Hi Josh
Yes there are some 12 volt triggers.
James
-
Is the volume control for the SP3 a lot like the BP26?
No more like the B100.
James
-
Nice setup :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44352)
james
Great photo - I like the direction Bryston's styling is going in. The slightly bigger buttons and larger displays. Looks great.
-
Will the SP3 have any type of Equalizer adjustment settings.
example
Equalizer Manual
Channel Front
25Hz 0dB
40Hz 0dB
63Hz 0dB
100Hz 0dB
160Hz 0dB
250Hz 0dB
400Hz 0dB
ETC....
-
Will the SP3 have any type of Equalizer adjustment settings.
example
Equalizer Manual
Channel Front
25Hz 0dB
40Hz 0dB
63Hz 0dB
100Hz 0dB
160Hz 0dB
250Hz 0dB
400Hz 0dB
ETC....
Sorry - NO EQ - screws up the time!
james
-
Don't understand what you mean about the time
-
Hi James,
Unfortunately I'm not sure I can afford a SP3 straight away :icon_frown: but I'm just curious as to whether it will pass through a 3D video signal OK and are they HDMI 1.4 connections?
Thanks,
-
Hi James,
Unfortunately I'm not sure I can afford a SP3 straight away :icon_frown: but I'm just curious as to whether it will pass through a 3D video signal OK and are they HDMI 1.4 connections?
Thanks,
Hi Vipers
Because we only strip the audio and pass on the video the 1.3 vs 1.4 does not matter to the SP3 but the connectors are HDMI 1.4.
James
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Hi James,
Thanks, I thought as much, so passing a 3d signal thru won't be problem then I guess?
Thanks,
-
Hi James,
Thanks, I thought as much, so passing a 3d signal thru won't be problem then I guess?
Thanks,
No problem - I don't know about over the pond Vipers but 3D is not making much of a dent over here as far as i can see :scratch:
james
-
i really can't understand why the Industry is trying to make a hype around that all new 3D...who needs it? who wants to sit in the living room starring at the flatscreen (and at each other person!!!) while wearing big, black and ugly glasses??
WHO needs it? :scratch: :duh:
al.
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No problem - I don't know about over the pond Vipers but 3D is not making much of a dent over here as far as i can see :scratch:
james
No, I think it's the same over here, tbh it doesn't overly interest me, more of a gimmick really, but I guess some potential SP3 owners may have 3D projectors or screens, so I was just checking.
I did watch Pirhana 3D round a friends recently on his PJ and Kelly Brook did look particurarly good in 3D I have to say :P
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"Active room control , flatly stated, does not work. Never did -- never will. Simple rules of physics vs the human hearing function. The very idea and execution...basically...retards the reproduced sound that emanates from the speakers in such a way that it bears little resemblance to what was recorded on the disk. I've also seen active room control devices blow drivers. The room must fundamentally be corrected via acoustic treatment FIRST...and then MAYBE some small amount of active control may, I repeat -may be utilized. This is not a rant against active control systems...merely a fact.
If your particular room does not allow for proper acoustic treatment, then fix the room, or move into another one. Ultimately, as one's understanding of what is actually going on in a given actively eq'd system -one that is involved in electronically manipulating the output of said system for 'room correction'-, one will come to the seemingly startling revelation that they simply don't work.
The source of the problem is that the reflective time smear characteristics of the room 'issues'..remains intact, and the direct radiator sound source is being retarded to compensate for this. Thus the result is a time smeared mess where the issues remain, and the original source is destroyed.
This is about as completely, irrevocably, bass-ackwards as one can get. Great for pro ambient environments or large auditoriums but they don't work in a serious two channel or serious HT system."
Here's a response someone provided to me recently:
"I used to have French client that told me "I see based on your demo that what you're recommending works in practice, but we can not implement it if it does not work in theory."
I used a Tact setup two homes ago in a living room theater setup. The room had lousy "physics": asymmetric room, speakers in entertainment cabinets up high with subs down low, chairs up against plate glass windows, etc. In that environment the Tact made a remarkable improvement in imaging, in dialog intelligibility, in air and ambience, etc. It wasn't ever up to the standards of an amazing room, but it was an order of magnitude improvement.
In another room in that same home, a professionally designed room with terrific acoustics, extensive room treatments, etc., that same Tact unit was detrimental to the sound.
Based on my experience I wouldn't hesitate to try a Tact or something similar in a lousy room (or even a Rane PEQ if that was all that I could afford), and, would be pretty hesitant about the same in a good room."
Point of all is, if you really care about great sound, fix your room and forget about EQ. Having fixed my own room with some professional help, I am a firm believer that about 50% of what you hear is the room and the rest is your equipment. When you put Bryston and PMC is a well designed room, it is nothing short of awesome.
-
So, for the best sound
Room Treatment
No room correction software,
No EQ.
Oh, and a bryston SP3....
With my PMC's
Thanks James.
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Man after my own heart. Room eq sucks the life of of decent kit. Better off matching kit up properly, placing it properly and cabling it properly.
If you play an acoustic guitar in your room, THAT IS HOW IT SOUNDS. You don't equalise it because cus it's to bassy in one seat.
We don't all sit in a recording studio, and when you go to a live performance you are at the mercy of where you sit.
Marketing is a wonderful thing.
I totally agree with Dav1dF most eq is poor, it's there because once manufacturer a offers it, manufacturer b has to to compete.
Nearly every time when I calibrate someone's tv I get asked to sort their av sound out. Every time the auto set up is used it's the same simple problems. Centre Chanel too low, rears too high and sub dominating. Audyssey sucks the life out of the sound IMHO and simple settings of Chanel distance and levels improve things dramatically along with correct settings of the amps crossover and doing the same with the sub controls.
Most people have not got a clue what proper bass is. The other mistake and yes this down room limitations is the main seat (usually) sofa is against the rear wall so you get room boundary bass.
To help here you place the sub in the main seat and walk round the room listening for bass nodes (places where bass rises, those are the places the sub should sit but you have to experiment to find a spot where the bass is likeable.
The other thing while we are at is is what is the correct distance to sit from a screen, the ISF trained answer is simple. Where do you like to sit. That is the correct place.
I do find it amusing that people spend a fortune on quality kit then destroy it with eq.
However, it's your kit, your ears and your personal preference, but I've yet to encounter anyone who did not think manual intervention did not improve the automated one.
With movies again I find it amusing. Take the film 2012. Does anyone know how the sound of the ground giving way with buildings crashing down around you while flying a plane through the middle of it SHOULD SOUND IN YOUR FRONT ROOM!
Your room is the room. Unless you build a bespoke one but that guitar will be a guitar where ever you play it and sound different in every room you play it in in your house or anywhere else.
Bumptious
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When you have a multi-channel system with av/receiver there are so many variables and parameter options that it can be difficult to adjust by ear and find the optimal settings.
For me, first you take an spl meter and adjust speaker levels so they measure the same at the listening chair. Then you use the auto room correction, this adjusts the balance and gets the distance correct. After that you tweak the parameters manually by ear to where it sounds right.
Suprisingly when I first adjust the parameters manually by ear. It was almost the same as auto room correction setting. Except my manual balance was off and I couldn't tell by ear where it should be adjusted. The auto correction though really dialed down the sub bass which I didn't like and I bumped that up much higher.
Further tweaking, adjusting speaker size to either small or large can make a huge difference in bass, upper bass and mid-range.
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Hi everyone - I just joined this forum. I'm excited about the sp3, but have a couple of questions. When you say there is "no video board" installed, what exactly does this mean? Will the 2 HDMI ouputs still output video, but just not process it? If so, this is just what I want!
-
One more question: On the prototype SP3, it looks like there was an "enter" button inside of the 4 directional buttons towards the left of the unit. Now, on the SP3 picture on page 47 of this thread, it appears the "enter" button is gone. Where has it's function been reassigned to?
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One more question: On the prototype SP3, it looks like there was an "enter" button inside of the 4 directional buttons towards the left of the unit. Now, on the SP3 picture on page 47 of this thread, it appears the "enter" button is gone. Where has it's function been reassigned to?
Hi - right button is now enter.
james
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We are currently building 6 units - if all goes well we are finally ready.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44296)
James,
Any news from Dolby and/or DTS?
Am I going to see the SP-3 at the High End in Munich at the new exhibitors box?
Cheers
Markus
-
Hi markus,
Yes the plan is to show the SP3 at Munich. We are sharing a booth with PMC.
james
-
Hi markus,
Yes the plan is to show the SP3 at Munich. We are sharing a booth with PMC.
james
James,
will the price of the trade-in be announced at the High End Show in Munich?
al.
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James,
will the price of the trade-in be announced at the High End Show in Munich?
al.
No - we are still trying to sort that out.
james
-
James,
can the SP3 drive two stereo amps via its analog xlr outputs? (bi-amping the speakers in a stereo setup).
al.
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James,
can the SP3 drive two stereo amps via its analog xlr outputs? (bi-amping the speakers in a stereo setup).
al.
Hi Al,
Yes but the balanced outs would have 6dB more gain.
james
-
James,
does the SP3 accept SACD (DSD) digital signals via its HDMI connectors?
al.
-
James,
does the SP3 accept SACD (DSD) digital signals via its HDMI connectors?
al.
Hi Al,
No - just PCM Digital and the new high def Dolby HD and DTS Master. The SP3 is really optimized for Surround playback not Stereo and SACD is really not being supported now. By the way our German distributor has an SP3 now for the Munich Show so you should be able to see and hear one there. They are setting up a room with PMC and have a surround demo planned.
james
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ok. thanks, James. and the tension is rising...can't await to see and hear the new SP3 :thumb:.
al.
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Hi Al,
Here is the email I got from our German Distributor on Friday:
From: Edvard Potisk [mailto:edvard.potisk@avitech.at]
Sent: May 6, 2011 12:33 PM
To: Brian W Russell and James Tanner
Subject: SP3
Dear Brian and James,
Today was very, very busy day, I was not able to write earlier.
Regarding SP3:
SUPERB!
We waited so long on this unit, it will take a little bit time till we realised that this is actually a working unit. We had test for 4 hours with all formats except USB and LAN. I have following statements and comments:
Sound is as expected excellent!
Video so far tested as coming from player and this is good
We like very much that you can configure both HDMI and SDIF on one input and in both case video is passing through.
I like very much the switching being made with slightly fad out/in. This is the proper level
I think this is the fastest start up from one processor you can find on the market. It takes only 6-7 seconds. Fantastic!
Switching is working very good and configuration was quite simple.
I wish you nice day.
Best regards
Edvard Potisk
AViTech, Dkfm. Edvard Potisk e. U.
-
:drool: :drool: :drool:
al.
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James,
are the BIT units at the show as well?
al.
-
James,
are the BIT units at the show as well?
al.
No the Torus will be as we have not built Bit units for overseas markets yet.
james
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Hi James,
Does the SP3 support FLAC up to 192K
Thanks
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Hi James,
Does the SP3 support FLAC up to 192K
Thanks
Hi - yes - I was playing with the SP3 and the BDP-1 over the weekend and all seems well. I used one of the AES Digital Stereo inputs on the SP3 as well as the COAX digital on the SP3.
james
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Hi James,
I assume you are primarily a 2 channel stereo listener. Do you find there is an adjustment in how you listen in Surround Sound, for soundstage, imaging? 8)
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Hi James,
I assume you are primarily a 2 channel stereo listener. Do you find there is an adjustment in how you listen in Surround Sound, for soundstage, imaging? 8)
Hi Mag,
Yes mainly 2 channel as I find it much more 'predictable' than surround. I like surround on movies and such but prefer Stereo for music. The center channel and what it does is a big issue for me with music.
That being said I have been working on a tri-center idea with Magnepan that really seems to work at providing all the benefits of a stereo sound stage only better :thumb:
james
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James,
does the SP3 accept SACD (DSD) digital signals via its HDMI connectors?
al.
James,
is DSD doable with a software upgrade? :scratch:
al.
-
I checked with engineering and SACD playback is available on the HDMI input on the SP3 from our sample OPPO DBP-83 DVD Player :thumb:
james
-
By the way our German distributor has an SP3 now for the Munich Show so you should be able to see and hear one there. They are setting up a room with PMC and have a surround demo planned.
Wow, Christmas might be coming early this year... :wink:
I am looking forward to experiencing the new SP-3 at the Munich High End trade show!
If the SP-3 should finally become available in the course of this year and Bryston figures out how to do the SP-1/1.7/2 trade-in program, I am in real dilemma... I am currently remodelling my recently acquired flat... while the SP-3 would perfectly fit in, it just might swallow a huge part of my remodelling budget... 8)
Anyway, the SP-3 will be here to stay for a while - it's just the question whether there will be time limit for the trade-in offer by Bryston.
We will see.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Markus
Yes first you have to like what you hear. Will be interested in your thoughts after the show :thumb:
James
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I checked with engineering and SACD playback is available on the HDMI input on the SP3 from our sample OPPO DBP-83 DVD Player :thumb:
james
James,
Great to hear that the SP3 supports DSD over HDMI. I am considering purchasaing a SP3 later this year and the DSD over HDMI provides another benefit in addition to the latest Dolby and DTS formats.
When you get a chance can you please let me know what the dimensions in inches are of the SP3. I only ask becuase my space is limited to 6.5" x 17" x 22" (H x D x W).
Thank you,
John
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Hi John
6 inches high (including feet) - 17 or 19 wide - 15 inches deep including the volume control.
James
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Hi - yes - I was playing with the SP3 and the BDP-1 over the weekend and all seems well. I used one of the AES Digital Stereo inputs on the SP3 as well as the COAX digital on the SP3.
james
James,
Can you comment on what, if any, difference in sound quality you have observed between the BDP-1 BDA-1 BP-26 combo and the BDP-1 SP-3?
Tony
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probably a bit nit-picking...but does the SP3's display shows "DSD"?
al.
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Hi James,
Yes, like Tony I would also love to know what sort of difference there is in stereo quality with the SP3 vs BP26 as I bought a nice pair of ELAC 249's last year and have been saving to buy a BP26 to go with them. Now I am wondering if I should buy the SP3 instead as I watch a lot of movies... Can't wait to open my speakers (which have been patiently waiting in their box for the last 9 months) when I get a 4BSST too, lol.
Thanks very much for your time,
Dom
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probably a bit nit-picking...but does the SP3's display shows "DSD"?
al.
Hi Al
No it shows the sample rate in KHZ.
James
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Hi James,
Yes, like Tony I would also love to know what sort of difference there is in stereo quality with the SP3 vs BP26 as I bought a nice pair of ELAC 249's last year and have been saving to buy a BP26 to go with them. Now I am wondering if I should buy the SP3 instead as I watch a lot of movies... Can't wait to open my speakers (which have been patiently waiting in their box for the last 9 months) when I get a 4BSST too, lol.
Thanks very much for your time,
Dom
Thanks Dom and Tony
I am still going through that exercise and there is a difference on the digital side using the BDP and the BCD as the source. I am just trying to assess as accurately as I can that difference. Will report back. I think it will come down to what kind of source and material is most important to you - stereo or surround.
As for the analog stereo side it's a tough call.
James
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James,
When setting up the distances for the speakers in surround mode, how fine can you adjust the distances.
.2 or better
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James,
When setting up the distances for the speakers in surround mode, how fine can you adjust the distances.
.2 or better
Hi,
5 inches or 10 CM.
james
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James,
can we expect to see the new SP3 on Bryston's website next month?
al.
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James,
can we expect to see the new SP3 on Bryston's website next month?
al.
Hi Al,
We should see it on the new website as soon as it is up. we are busy writing a preliminary manual and literature. I have had one at home now for about 3 weeks and I am very very happy with the sound. :thumb:
james
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Hi,
5 inches or 10 CM.
james
5 inches is 12.5 cm.
10 cm is 4 inches.
So I'd go for cm, it is more precise... :D
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James,
Have you had a chance to A/B the SP3 with the SP2 in 2 channel bypass mode?
Thanks,
Ben
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James,
Have you had a chance to A/B the SP3 with the SP2 in 2 channel bypass mode?
Thanks,
Ben
Hi Ben,
Yes I have... and in a blind test no discernable differences.
james
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Hi Al
No it shows the sample rate in KHZ.
James
James,
...so the SP3 shows 2.882,4 Khz ?
al.
-
James,
...so the SP3 shows 2.882,4 Khz ?
al.
It shows 88.2 on the display.
james
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It shows 88.2 on the display.
james
James is using the Oppo to convert DSD to PCM in the player, the SP3 is not playing DSD directly and based on Jame's previous posts I do not believe it accepts native DSD via HDMI. The sample rate displayed is what the player converts to, I believe the new 93 converts DSD to a higher PCM sample rate.
Jeff
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Thanks Dom and Tony
I am still going through that exercise and there is a difference on the digital side using the BDP and the BCD as the source. I am just trying to assess as accurately as I can that difference. Will report back. I think it will come down to what kind of source and material is most important to you - stereo or surround.
As for the analog stereo side it's a tough call.
James
James,
How does the SP3 do against the BDA for 2 channel now that you have had it for a few weeks?????? Interested in both 44.1 and high resolution material.
Jeff
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James,
Does the SP3 address the problem the SP2 has with going into detect mode (essentially muting) between CD tracks, depending on how the CD was mastered? (In my case the SP2 is an upgrade of the SP1.7)
The relay click and cutting off the start of songs is annoying.
I've resorted to running the SP2 in bypass 5.1 and using the analog input from my Denon A1UDCI to work around that.
Ted
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James,
Does the SP3 address the problem the SP2 has with going into detect mode (essentially muting) between CD tracks, depending on how the CD was mastered? (In my case the SP2 is an upgrade of the SP1.7)
The relay click and cutting off the start of songs is annoying.
I've resorted to running the SP2 in bypass 5.1 and using the analog input from my Denon A1UDCI to work around that.
Ted
Hi Ted
Yes that seems to be solved in the SP3 - there are 3 different settings to allow you to contol it.
James
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James,
How does the SP3 do against the BDA for 2 channel now that you have had it for a few weeks?????? Interested in both 44.1 and high resolution material.
Jeff
Hi Jeff
It's very close - the SP-3 is really quite good in both passthrough and the new digital board is very smooth sounding. We used it in the Munich show recently with PMC and we were all very happy with the sound.
James
-
James,
Does the SP3 address the problem the SP2 has with going into detect mode (essentially muting) between CD tracks, depending on how the CD was mastered? (In my case the SP2 is an upgrade of the SP1.7)
The relay click and cutting off the start of songs is annoying.
I've resorted to running the SP2 in bypass 5.1 and using the analog input from my Denon A1UDCI to work around that.
Ted
Is this not a function of the player rather than the SP2?
With a 'CD only' player, since the output is exclusively PCM, the player output remains PCM digital zero between songs. With a multifunction player (i.e DVD's, CD's) this is not the case and results in the SP2 decoders beginning a bitstream detection and mode switching routine for either PCM, DTS, AC3. That's the relay click you hear.
I certainly don't ever get that function with a dedicated CD only player.
What type of settings are included on the SP3 to alleviate this?
brucek
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Is this not a function of the player rather than the SP2?
With a 'CD only' player, since the output is exclusively PCM, the player output remains PCM digital zero between songs. With a multifunction player (i.e DVD's, CD's) this is not the case and results in the SP2 decoders beginning a bitstream detection and mode switching routine for either PCM, DTS, AC3. That's the relay click you hear.
I certainly don't ever get that function with a dedicated CD only player.
What type of settings are included on the SP3 to alleviate this?
brucek
Hi Bruce
We have a PCM zerorun control which you can set.
James
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Now that I've decided to stay strictly two-channel and no longer in the market for the SP3, when will it be released?
-
Now that I've decided to stay strictly two-channel and no longer in the market for the SP3, when will it be released?
Hi
All the material is on the way and we are just waiting for DTS and DD approvals.
james
-
Hi Jeff
It's very close - the SP-3 is really quite good in both passthrough and the new digital board is very smooth sounding. We used it in the Munich show recently with PMC and we were all very happy with the sound.
James
What audio chip(s) do you use in the SP3?
So are you saying that running a BDP-1 through the SP3 would be very close
to running a BDP-1 through a BDA-1 into a BP-26
-
Is this not a function of the player rather than the SP2?
With a 'CD only' player, since the output is exclusively PCM, the player output remains PCM digital zero between songs. With a multifunction player (i.e DVD's, CD's) this is not the case and results in the SP2 decoders beginning a bitstream detection and mode switching routine for either PCM, DTS, AC3. That's the relay click you hear.
I certainly don't ever get that function with a dedicated CD only player.
What type of settings are included on the SP3 to alleviate this?
brucek
While what you say is true, multifunction players are a reality. Equipment priced at this level should be expected to work properly with other components. To imply it's the multifunction player's problem isn't appropriate. It was something overlooked/unanticipated/not uncovered during field testing. That happens.
I was trying to find out if Bryston had allowed for this on the SP3, which James confirmed.
I sent an inquiry to Bryston service about the issue attempting to find out if there were any settings or a firmware upgrade that might address this issue and never received a reply or acknowledgment.
Ted
-
While what you say is true, multifunction players are a reality. Equipment priced at this level should be expected to work properly with other components. To imply it's the multifunction player's problem isn't appropriate. It was something overlooked/unanticipated/not uncovered during field testing. That happens.
I was trying to find out if Bryston had allowed for this on the SP3, which James confirmed.
I sent an inquiry to Bryston service about the issue attempting to find out if there were any settings or a firmware upgrade that might address this issue and never received a reply or acknowledgment.
Ted
Hi Ted,
Service would not be aware of this particular feature but that does not forgive them for no reply :duh:
james
-
To imply it's the multifunction player's problem isn't appropriate.
Sorry, I'll withhold my observations and comments next time.
brucek
-
What audio chip(s) do you use in the SP3?
So are you saying that running a BDP-1 through the SP3 would be very close
to running a BDP-1 through a BDA-1 into a BP-26
Great question :notworthy:
James?
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Hi Ted,
Service would not be aware of this particular feature but that does not forgive them for no reply :duh:
james
James I was unclear in my statement. I meant I had asked about the SP2. I realize service wouldn't know about SP3 features. Sorry for the confusion.
-
Hi,
We use the same Crystal DAC in the SP3 as in the BCD-1 but the SP-3 also has a DSP in the circuit path so I will leave the discussion of differences to the greater public. :thumb:
james
-
Hi,
We use the same Crystal DAC in the SP3 as in the BDA-1 but the SP-3 also has a DSP in the circuit path so I will leave the discussion of differences to the greater public. :thumb:
james
Thanks James, just to be clear is the Crystal DAC in single configuration like the BCD-1 or dual like the the BDA-1 and is it the same for all chanels?
Cheers
-
Thanks James, just to be clear is the Crystal DAC in single configuration like the BCD-1 or dual like the the BDA-1 and is it the same for all chanels?
Cheers
Single
james
-
Single
james
Thank you.
-
Hi,
We use the same Crystal DAC in the SP3 as in the BCD-1 but the SP-3 also has a DSP in the circuit path so I will leave the discussion of differences to the greater public. :thumb:
james
Verrrry Interesting.
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I am new to this thread and have enjoyed reading about the new SP3 processor. I am considering upgrading from a Meridian G68ADV/HD621 to one unit which will be used to listen to 2 channel music through a 9.1 surround system incorporating height speakers. Can anyone provide information as whether the SP3 will provide Dolby Pro Logic IIz or DTS NEO:X capability? Also how many 12volt triggers will the SP3 provide?
Thanks,
Ron
-
Hi Ron
The SP3 has 3 triggers. Not sure i know what Z and X are?
james
-
Hi Ron
The SP3 has 3 triggers. Not sure i know what Z and X are?
james
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/understand/playback/dolby-pro-logic-iix.html
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/understand/playback/dolby-pro-logic-iiz.html
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Hello James et al:
I am considering an HDMI-based pre-pro to replace the SP1.7 I've enjoyed for many years. I understand that the SP3 is audio-only and will not process video and that's ok with me. The questions I have relate to how the SP3 will integrate into my system. I have a HDMI-capable monitor with 4 inputs and I have 4 sources (DirecTV, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, Laptop Computer) that all have a single HDMI output each. My question is how can I connect source devices with single outputs to both the SP3 and the monitor at the same time? Do I have to buy some sort of "port multiplying" device or will the SP3 send an unprocessed signal to the monitor? Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
-
Hello James et al:
I am considering an HDMI-based pre-pro to replace the SP1.7 I've enjoyed for many years. I understand that the SP3 is audio-only and will not process video and that's ok with me. The questions I have relate to how the SP3 will integrate into my system. I have a HDMI-capable monitor with 4 inputs and I have 4 sources (DirecTV, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, Laptop Computer) that all have a single HDMI output each. My question is how can I connect source devices with single outputs to both the SP3 and the monitor at the same time? Do I have to buy some sort of "port multiplying" device or will the SP3 send an unprocessed signal to the monitor? Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
Hi Joe
The SP3 has 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs. So in my setup I just run a single 25 foot HDMI cable to my ceiling projector from the SP3 and have 3 HDMI sources plugged into the SP3 inputs. The SP3 will strip out the audio and pass on the video with each specific input. So if I go from my HDMI cable TV too my HDMI DVD Player the SP3 will switch to the appropriate input and pass on the new video. So in other words the SP3 will switch the video input based on the input automatically but does not process it in any way.
james
-
Hi Joe
The SP3 has 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs. So in my setup I just run a single 25 foot HDMI cable to my ceiling projector from the SP3 and have 3 HDMI sources plugged into the SP3 inputs. The SP3 will strip out the audio and pass on the video with each specific input. So if I go from my HDMI cable TV too my HDMI DVD Player the SP3 will switch to the appropriate input and pass on the new video. So in other words the SP3 will switch the video input based on the input automatically but does not process it in any way.
james
So the $1 million question is: can you matrix this, e.g. show video from one HDMI input but play the audio from a second? i.e. can I do The Dark Side of Oz (http://www.everwonder.com/david/wizardofoz/), or watch 'the game' while listening to music (here in the US the soccer announcers are rather miserable so I tend to just listen to music while watching a game).
Currently I only have my Blu-ray player and DVR directly to HDMI (which is ok since my Pre-Processor only has 2 HDMI ins), and the rest go HDMI to my plasma display and optical/coax to my pre-processor. If the SP3 could overcome the 'crippled' nature of HDMI I could start saving up.
-
So the $1 million question is: can you matrix this, e.g. show video from one HDMI input but play the audio from a second? i.e. can I do The Dark Side of Oz (http://www.everwonder.com/david/wizardofoz/), or watch 'the game' while listening to music (here in the US the soccer announcers are rather miserable so I tend to just listen to music while watching a game).
Currently I only have my Blu-ray player and DVR directly to HDMI (which is ok since my Pre-Processor only has 2 HDMI ins), and the rest go HDMI to my plasma display and optical/coax to my pre-processor. If the SP3 could overcome the 'crippled' nature of HDMI I could start saving up.
Hi gaderson
Never tried that one. Will ask engineering :scratch:
James
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Hi Joe
The SP3 has 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs. So in my setup I just run a single 25 foot HDMI cable to my ceiling projector from the SP3 and have 3 HDMI sources plugged into the SP3 inputs. The SP3 will strip out the audio and pass on the video with each specific input. So if I go from my HDMI cable TV too my HDMI DVD Player the SP3 will switch to the appropriate input and pass on the new video. So in other words the SP3 will switch the video input based on the input automatically but does not process it in any way.
james
Perfect! Many thanks James!
-
Hi
All the material is on the way and we are just waiting for DTS and DD approvals.
james
Hi James,
Any idea on how much longer the DTS and DD approvals will take? I am just trying to get an idea on when the SP3 should be available.
Cheers,
John
-
Hi James,
Any idea on how much longer the DTS and DD approvals will take? I am just trying to get an idea on when the SP3 should be available.
Cheers,
John
Hi John
They told us 90 days and that was 3 weeks ago.
James
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Question about audio/ video sync on SP3:
I've got an SP1 that has been upgraded to an SP2. Running an HDMI cable from my source to my TV with an SPDIF output to the SP2 I notice a slight lag in the audio coming from my sound system when compared to the sound from the TV speakers. Afaik there is no way to correct this with the SP2 because the video cannot be delayed to match up with the audio. Is there a way to fix this on the SP3?
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Question about audio/ video sync on SP3:
I've got an SP1 that has been upgraded to an SP2. Running an HDMI cable from my source to my TV with an SPDIF output to the SP2 I notice a slight lag in the audio coming from my sound system when compared to the sound from the TV speakers. Afaik there is no way to correct this with the SP2 because the video cannot be delayed to match up with the audio. Is there a way to fix this on the SP3?
Hi mcollin6,
The newer displays do not seem to have this issue because the refreash rates are quicker. The SP3 does not have any delay sinc feature.
james
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Hi mcollin6,
The newer displays do not seem to have this issue because the refreash rates are quicker. The SP3 does not have any delay sinc feature.
james
James:
Isn't mcollin6's issue the reverse issue - the hdmi video/audio is ahead of the SP-2 (spdif) audio ? Could this be a problem with the source delaying the audio on the spdif vs the audio on the hdmi ? Perhaps there is a time adjustment in the source ? I just bought an HDMI TV so I'm getting a bit worried that I'm not going to be able to use my SP-1.7 with it.
--Steve
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James:
Isn't mcollin6's issue the reverse issue - the hdmi video/audio is ahead of the SP-2 (spdif) audio ? Could this be a problem with the source delaying the audio on the spdif vs the audio on the hdmi ? Perhaps there is a time adjustment in the source ? I just bought an HDMI TV so I'm getting a bit worried that I'm not going to be able to use my SP-1.7 with it.
--Steve
Hi Steve,
I am using a SP1.7 with my 42 inch panasonic plasma with an Oppo 93 as a source. I run HDMI to the TV and coax to the SP1.7 for surround sound decoding. I have not noticed an issue with a video / audio not being in sync; however, I only sit ~8 feet from the TV. Based on my experience you should be okay.
Best,
John
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Hi James,
Tom from PMC popped into to my new place of the work the other day and was telling me how amazing the SP3 sounded at Munich running on their Active BB5 XBD setup.
Will you possibly be sending a demo unit over to PMC to go round the dealers in the UK?
I fancy organising a SP3 open day :)
Thanks.
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Hi James,
Tom from PMC popped into to my new place of the work the other day and was telling me how amazing the SP3 sounded at Munich running on their Active BB5 XBD setup.
Will you possibly be sending a demo unit over to PMC to go round the dealers in the UK?
I fancy organising a SP3 open day :)
Thanks.
Hi Vipers,
Yes we were really pleased with the sound in Munich - just waiting for DTS and Dolby approvals.
james
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Hi Vipers,
Yes we were really pleased with the sound in Munich - just waiting for DTS and Dolby approvals.
james
I really can't wait to hear it James, I've got our 9B SST2 all ready for action :)
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I really can't wait to hear it James, I've got our 9B SST2 all ready for action :)
I am waiting for my invite Vipers :beer:
Cheers
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I am waiting for my invite Vipers :beer:
Cheers
I'd love to say that it is in the post Alpha but I feel we may be jumping the gun a little.
Hopefully we'll still have our Meridian 861 processor for the SP3 to go up against, a real battle of the titans :)
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I'd love to say that it is in the post Alpha but I feel we may be jumping the gun a little.
Hopefully we'll still have our Meridian 861 processor for the SP3 to go up against, a real battle of the titans :)
Sounds good, don't forget to ask for your demo one to be 17" black facia with blue LEDs, well you never know :oops:
Cheers
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Sounds good, don't forget to ask for your demo one to be 17" black facia with blue LEDs, well you never know :oops:
Cheers
Nice try alpha :lol:, personally I have a feeling it will be 17" black with green led's, as you say, you never know :wink:
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Nice try alpha :lol:, personally I have a feeling it will be 17" black with green led's, as you say, you never know :wink:
Pulling rank, that isn't fair :green:
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Pulling rank, that isn't fair :green:
OK, fair point, we'll just have to get 2 in :)
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James,
I believe the SP3 has 2 sub outs, was looking for the info in this thread but the specs are old and the pictures not clear enough to read the labels. For 2 channel material can the subs be setup as left and right and the SP3 used to integrate the subs with the main speakers? Have you tried this in your setup? Would be intersting to see how this would compare to the analogue methods.
You mentioned you are working on the literature for the SP3. Could you post an updated feature set and pictures for the drooling masses here? :drool:
Jeff
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James,
I believe the SP3 has 2 sub outs, was looking for the info in this thread but the specs are old and the pictures not clear enough to read the labels. For 2 channel material can the subs be setup as left and right and the SP3 used to integrate the subs with the main speakers? Have you tried this in your setup? Would be intersting to see how this would compare to the analogue methods.
You mentioned you are working on the literature for the SP3. Could you post an updated feature set and pictures for the drooling masses here? :drool:
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Yes there is an extra set of Balanced outputs (AUX) which can de used to add a second sub and a second center. You can also used
the Unbalanced outputs as well if you want to go to Sub heavon :thumb:
james
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James,
What is the latest on the delivery for the SP3?
Frankly as a long-time loyal Bryston customer and watching 2+ years of continued delays in delivering this product it makes me wonder if this is a priority for Bryston at all. The last comment posted was waiting for DD & DTS approvals and that it might take an additional 90 days. Why wouldn't this have been done in advance or in parallel with testing? I've watched this activity now for the past 2 years and what I see is serial thinking vs parallel as in most good projects. I've pretty much lost faith at this point and is making me consider going elsewhere for the first time.
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I understand and please feel free to move on. I have had much frustration with this project myself and the delays have sometimes been our fault and sometimes the Masters of the industry. They have continually changed the requirements. There is no way to send in a unit to DTS and Dolby until it works properly and so can not be done concurrently while in development. The powers that be keep changing the licence requirements and have many times. That's why companies like Parasound said the hell with it and many others OEM from China.
We demo-ed an SP3 at the Munich audio show last month with great success and my distributor in Malaysia has a unit now for his show there and tells me it is superb.
I refuse to be beaten and want the SP3 to be something sonically special and we are very close - I have 6 units working well and we have 100 ready for production as soon as we get the OK, but I do understand and do not blame you at all for moving along with another product.
james
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Home theater is a different animal than high end audio. James' post is as honest as one can get. Mass market companies that have a half dozen receivers in their line have much more in the way of resources to get changes in processing technology to market as that is their bread and butter. If they are going to get thousands of units to market and that is going to be what makes or breaks their bottom line, they are going to get it to market. Most of the time the new technology works as it should in their products but there is also at times a significant amount of issues. Sometimes they are addressed, and sometimes they are not. It is just the reality of the market.
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Look at it this way... The masters of the industry get Bryston to develop a product that they know will be the new sound standard in movie theatres.
That's hundreds of cities in North America, thousands of units sold. Millions of dollars in the bank! 8)
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James,
I appreciate the honest answer and the desire to create a great product but there is such a thing as a market curve and that curve moves a lot faster these days than it used to.
I just think that Bryston has missed an opportunity in the home theatre market. HDMI Audio and video has now been around for 3-4 years already (with a lot of wasted time with the HD-DVD & BLU-RAY WAR) and I believe it's already peaked. I can appreciate and agree that it has changed far too much along the way but the audio portion of the standard has been pretty settled since HDMI 1.3. I just think that such products these days need to be built with modular designs in mind.
As audio/video technology becomes more and more computer-based (inevitable) the faster it will change. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next couple of years a new mouse trap comes on the market which will start the ball rolling once again.
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James,
I appreciate the honest answer and the desire to create a great product but there is such a thing as a market curve and that curve moves a lot faster these days than it used to.
I just think that Bryston has missed an opportunity in the home theatre market. HDMI Audio and video has now been around for 3-4 years already (with a lot of wasted time with the HD-DVD & BLU-RAY WAR) and I believe it's already peaked. I can appreciate and agree that it has changed far too much along the way but the audio portion of the standard has been pretty settled since HDMI 1.3. I just think that such products these days need to be built with modular designs in mind.
As audio/video technology becomes more and more computer-based (inevitable) the faster it will change. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next couple of years a new mouse trap comes on the market which will start the ball rolling once again.
I am sure you are correct but we are a small company with lofty goals! and not for everyone. And half the stuff they throw at you is gimmick marketing not performance driven.
james
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I am sure you are correct but we are a small company with lofty goals! and not for everyone. And half the stuff they throw at you is gimmick marketing not performance driven.
james
For what it is worth James, I think you and Bryston are doing the right thing, I doubt I will ever be able to afford a SP3, but it is an ambition! People like Onkyo and Denon have huge resources for making these things happen and as such probably have ways of getting to the front of the queue, but the problem is their products although very good are completely mass market, with no real love or passion. I see the SP3 as being such a beast, not running in the pack with the front panel sticker race, just back to basics good old fashioned engineering excellence, and great sound, taking taime and getting it right!
Cheers
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For what it is worth James, I think you and Bryston are doing the right thing, I doubt I will ever be able to afford a SP3, but it is an ambition! People like Onkyo and Denon have huge resources for making these things happen and as such probably have ways of getting to the front of the queue, but the problem is their products although very good are completely mass market, with no real love or passion. I see the SP3 as being such a beast, not running in the pack with the front panel sticker race, just back to basics good old fashioned engineering excellence, and great sound, taking taime and getting it right!
Cheers
Cheers as well - I will tell you getting it right - meaning very low noise low distortion Digital and Analog signal paths was not an easy task. The digital processing part is pretty straight forward but the rest is a labour of love :thumb:
james
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I am sure you are correct but we are a small company with lofty goals! and not for everyone. And half the stuff they throw at you is gimmick marketing not performance driven.
james
Not to belabour this, but I wouldn't want Bryston to become like mass market larger companies out there. There are plenty of those already. For the most part, I think Bryston designs and builds great products and should continue to do so.
Some of the best products that come to market come from small companies who allow their limited engineering capacity the creativity and passion to build something special. Large companies have more $ but also have a lot of bureaucracy that gets in the way along with volume sales expectations to re-coup the higher up-front costs and often results in inferior sound and video quality to the consumer. The process just needs to ride the market curve otherwise it's moot. I actually believe that small companies have the advantage if done properly.
Regardless I still wish Bryston every success.
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I would love to see a product that has all the current features and offers an upgrade path for all the future features and comes with the audio performance level of a Bryston component.
The reality, however, is that there isn't a product that meets these requirements. Therefore, one has to make a decision what matters more.
One option is to buy an Onkyo/Denon/Integra Pre/Pro @ $2,500 and up every year or every second year to keep up with the changes the DTSs, Dolbys and Audysseys serve and have a decent audio performance, but not at a Bryston level.
Another option is to purchase a machine like the Bryston SP-3 which leaves out video processing and therefore doesn't get obsolete that fast as far as video processing is concerned. It delivers audio quality @ Bryston level, but will lack features that every $500 receiver will have. The fact that it will be in the $10,000 region is another factor to take into account. Considering that you can use an SP-3 as an excellent 2 channel pre might help to digest the price tag better if you not plan to run it in a dedicated multichannel environment.
That is the reality that I perceive and as I learned that "perception IS reality", those are the option I am contemplating about.
Cheers!
Markus
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Nice feedback from our Distributor in Malaysia on the SP3
From: James Tan
Sent: July-24-11 6:43 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: SP3
Hi James,
Just read your forum regarding the SP3 and comments regarding the product release schedule. I was in the same boat as those complaining on the delayed release of the SP3 but let me tell you this, after having the pleasure of using your demo unit the last couple of weeks, "IT WORKS", and I am sure that all the bad vibes will disappear once people have a go at it.
You have a product that does not only sounds fantastic which is a given with your understanding of audio but to have your pass through video feature coming looking like a champ says volume for you and your team's attention to details.
James, keep up the good work and thanks for mentioning that the SP3 will be featured in our coming KLIAV show next week, just hope that we can highlight all the talents of the SP3.
Regards,
James
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Nice feedback from our Distributor in Malaysia on the SP3
From: James Tan
Sent: July-24-11 6:43 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: SP3
Hi James,
Just read your forum regarding the SP3 and comments regarding the product release schedule. I was in the same boat as those complaining on the delayed release of the SP3 but let me tell you this, after having the pleasure of using your demo unit the last couple of weeks, "IT WORKS", and I am sure that all the bad vibes will disappear once people have a go at it.
You have a product that does not only sounds fantastic which is a given with your understanding of audio but to have your pass through video feature coming looking like a champ says volume for you and your team's attention to details.
James, keep up the good work and thanks for mentioning that the SP3 will be featured in our coming KLIAV show next week, just hope that we can highlight all the talents of the SP3.
Regards,
James
Nice comments and this raises the anticipation. I noticed, the letter is from another James T. :wink:
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I waited awhile for the SP3 to be released and a few months back I finally decided to focus on two channel. I did entirely expect the SP3 to be released and I would be having regrets right about now, but now it appears I'm glad I made the switch to just two channel and disappointed that I can't do a dealer demo of the SP3.
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Hi James,
Those pics of the SP3 that were in the factory tour thread have got us Brits a little excited on the other side of the pond, a quick question if you don't mind.
I've been wondering that if I was to go with the SP3 for my movies and 2ch duties, I guess I could sell my BP26 and possibly my BDA-1, I know in the past you have said the SP3 performs as well as the BP26 for 2ch, but would you recommend keeping the BDA-1? or is the DAC section in the SP3 as good as the BDA-1? Which if it is actually makes the SP3 great value.
Thanks.
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Hi James,
Those pics of the SP3 that were in the factory tour thread have got us Brits a little excited on the other side of the pond, a quick question if you don't mind.
I've been wondering that if I was to go with the SP3 for my movies and 2ch duties, I guess I could sell my BP26 and possibly my BDA-1, I know in the past you have said the SP3 performs as well as the BP26 for 2ch, but would you recommend keeping the BDA-1? or is the DAC section in the SP3 as good as the BDA-1? Which if it is actually makes the SP3 great value.
Thanks.
Hi Vipers,
I am playing around with the SP3 now using the BDP-1 as the source into the Balanced AESEBU on the SP3 so I should be able to let you know soon.
james
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I am playing around with the SP3 now using the BDP-1 as the source into the Balanced AESEBU on the SP3 so I should be able to let you know soon.
Perfect :D
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Hi Vipers,
I am playing around with the SP3 now using the BDP-1 as the source into the Balanced AESEBU on the SP3 so I should be able to let you know soon.
james
Brilliant, thanks James, can't wait to hear your thoughts, it's looking more likely I may be heading down the SP3 route :)
A couple more quick qestions if you don't mind.
Will the SP3 come with it's own remote or will the BR2 be used? will one come in the box?
Looking at the picture on the factory tour thread of you holding the SP3, the back panel seems to have changed slightly from the earlier picture, I can't seem to see the power outlet, will the SP3 be able to be powered from the MPS-2?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50477)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50478)
Thanks.
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Brilliant, thanks James, can't wait to hear your thoughts, it's looking more likely I may be heading down the SP3 route :)
A couple more quick qestions if you don't mind.
Will the SP3 come with it's own remote or will the BR2 be used? will one come in the box?
Looking at the picture on the factory tour thread of you holding the SP3, the back panel seems to have changed slightly from the earlier picture, I can't seem to see the power outlet, will the SP3 be able to be powered from the MPS-2?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50477)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50478)
Thanks.
Hi
Yes some of the layout has changed but it must be powered internally due to separate power supplies for the digital and analog stages.
There will be a new remote that looks like the SP2 remote that will come with the unit.
James
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The back panel does not look as tall as the front panel. There must be a second piece of the back panel that will include the HDMI input/outputs and the power input.
Tony
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The back panel does not look as tall as the front panel. There must be a second piece of the back panel that will include the HDMI input/outputs and the power input.
Tony
Hi Tony
Correct the one I am holding does not have the top back panel section attached.
James
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Hi James,
On the up coming SP 3, will Bryston create an app for IPOD/IPAD to control this unit?
And, any change you can play stored music via the ethernet port?
Ciao, Luigi
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Hi James,
On the up coming SP 3, will Bryston create an app for IPOD/IPAD to control this unit?
And, any change you can play stored music via the ethernet port?
Ciao, Luigi
Hi Luigi
No control planned at this point as companies like Crestron make units that will integrate if customers want display control.
There is no harddrive in the SP3 so no storage is available.
james
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Hi
Yes some of the layout has changed but it must be powered internally due to separate power supplies for the digital and analog stages.
There will be a new remote that looks like the SP2 remote that will come with the unit.
James
Thanks James, when do you think we may realistically see the SP3 over in the UK?
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Thanks James, when do you think we may realistically see the SP3 over in the UK?
I hope by October.
james
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Hi James,
I may have missed it but will the SP3 be a 5 or 20 year warranty product?
Cheers
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Hi James,
I may have missed it but will the SP3 be a 5 or 20 year warranty product?
Cheers
Being a digital product 5 years.
James
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Being a digital product 5 years.
James
Thank you, I know this is a difficult question, but it this likely to change? I would not want to be an early adopter and miss out (as I just have with my PMC speakers..)
Cheers
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Thank you, I know this is a difficult question, but it this likely to change? I would not want to be an early adopter and miss out (as I just have with my PMC speakers..)
Cheers
No it is not likely to change and if it did it would be retroactive as it was when we went to 20 years on the amps in 1990.
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No it is not likely to change and if it did it would be retroactive as it was when we went to 20 years on the amps in 1990.
Good to know, thank you.
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Hi Vipers,
I am playing around with the SP3 now using the BDP-1 as the source into the Balanced AESEBU on the SP3 so I should be able to let you know soon.
james
James,
So how does it sound against the BDA?
Also when will you be able to post or publish a finalized feature and spec sheet for the SP3?
Jeff
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James,
So how does it sound against the BDA?
Also when will you be able to post or publish a finalized feature and spec sheet for the SP3?
Jeff
Hi Jeff
I am working on the manual now - is there a particular spec your interested in?
James
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Hi James,
Glad to hear that Bryston is getting very close to releasing the SP3. I just placed my order for a SP3 this week. I am very much looking forward to having it replace my Bryston SP1.7. The features I am most looking forward to are:
1) Support for lossless surround sound
2) Support for SACD via HDMI (although it appears that DSD must be first converted to PCM)
3) Lack of video processing which is not worthwhile becaus my Oppo-93 does an excellent job on the video
4) 7.1 analog inputs with 7.1 balanced analog outputs
5) Multiple balanaced sub outputs (1 sub and 2 Aux outputs)
Would it be possible to post a link to the manual for AC members on the Bryston circle once you complete the manual?
Cheers,
John
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I was told by my dealer that Bryston is already shipping the SP3. Is this correct?
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I was told by my dealer that Bryston is already shipping the SP3. Is this correct?
No we built 6 units and have shipped them to distributors for shows etc. but we are starting to build 100 more units this month for production delivery.
james
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Hi Jeff
I am working on the manual now - is there a particular spec your interested in?
James
Not so much interested in specs (I take it for granted they will be good or you would not release it :wink:) as I am the features.
From the latest pictures of the back there have been some changes in the number and type of inputs and outputs, I was looking for a list of what they are.
It looks like there are 10 balanced outputs, are there multiple sub outputs?
Given Bryston's track record I am assuming it will be a excellent DAC. Can the SP3 be used to integrate a pair of subs with the mains for 2 channel playback when the SP3 accepts a digital input?
Also, waiting to hear how it sounds fed by the BDP.
Jeff
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Hi Jeff
I will see if I can get an updated shot of the back for you. There are 2 sub outs one XLR and one RCA. Also there is a set of Aux outs that can be configured to be another sub center or stereo outs.
Yes you can use a sub and integrate it with the Stereo setup. Digital as well as Analog.
We had it set up Friday in the sound room and I was using the BDP and happy to report it sounded excellent and played the 192/24 without a hitch.
James
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Hi Jeff
There are 2 sub outs one XLR and one RCA. Also there is a set of Aux outs that can be configured to be another sub center or stereo outs.
Happy to hear there are two configurable outputs (was hoping for this when I counted 10 balanced outs in the photo), this will give a lot of flexibility as to how it can be setup.
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H James,
I noticed that the BDP-1 display can be adjusted for brightness and has an auto shut off feature. Will the SP3 have the same features on its display?
Best,
John
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H James,
I noticed that the BDP-1 display can be adjusted for brightness and has an auto shut off feature. Will the SP3 have the same features on its display?
Best,
John
Yes the display can be timed out from (1-minute 10 m and 30 m to 2 hours) and can also run at 25-50-75 and 100 percent.
james
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Yes the display can be timed out from (1-minute 10 m and 30 m to 2 hours) and can also run at 25-50-75 and 100 percent.
That's when it's first powered on? In other words, while you're watching a movie and you nudge the volume control, it only lights the display for a few seconds and not 1/10/30 minutes or 2 hours?
Steve
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That's when it's first powered on? In other words, while you're watching a movie and you nudge the volume control, it only lights the display for a few seconds and not 1/10/30 minutes or 2 hours?
Steve
[/quote/
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James,
in an earlier thread you said that the SP3 will accept digital SACD signals via HDMI (88.2 KHz will then be shown at the display).
- would 176.4 KHz be possible or will the SP3 sample it down to 88.2?
- or is it always a matter of the device that plays a SACD which digital output signal will reach the SP3?? (for example: some player put out 88.2 and some player put out 176.4).
al.
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James,
in an earlier thread you said that the SP3 will accept digital SACD signals via HDMI (88.2 KHz will then be shown at the display).
- would 176.4 KHz be possible or will the SP3 sample it down to 88.2?
- or is it always a matter of the device that plays a SACD which digital output signal will reach the SP3?? (for example: some player put out 88.2 and some player put out 176.4).
al.
Hi Al,
The SP3 will work up to 192/24.
james
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James,
in an earlier thread you said that the SP3 will accept digital SACD signals via HDMI (88.2 KHz will then be shown at the display).
- would 176.4 KHz be possible or will the SP3 sample it down to 88.2?
- or is it always a matter of the device that plays a SACD which digital output signal will reach the SP3?? (for example: some player put out 88.2 and some player put out 176.4).
al.
Based on Jame's earlier posts the SP3 will not accept a DSD signal which means the player will have to convert the SACD to PCM to send to the processor. This means the bit rate and depth will be determined by the player, so if your player will convert SACD to 176.4/24 PCM then the SP3 will accept and play that.
Jeff
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Hi Vipers,
I am playing around with the SP3 now using the BDP-1 as the source into the Balanced AESEBU on the SP3 so I should be able to let you know soon.
james
James,
Any update on how it sounds?
Jeff
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James,
Any update on how it sounds?
Jeff
REALLY GOOOOOODDD :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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James - Do you think you could post some pics of the SP3 for us who are anticipating the arrival of this fine unit?
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James - Do you think you could post some pics of the SP3 for us who are anticipating the arrival of this fine unit?
http://www.hometheater.com/content/bryston-hdmi-processor-debuts-cedia
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http://c3001172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/h2641315685165CEDIA11Day3BrystonSP3SurroundsoundProcessor.MP4
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...thanks, James! pics of the remote, too?? :icon_lol:
al.
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MMmmm, looks lovely.
Just one question, on the final versions (not sure if that is a prototype) is the bottom left selector button going to say 'DVD' on it or are you going to put 'BD' or 'Bluray' as given the price point of the unit and the percentage of blu's now, I would have thought that would make more sense?
Cheers
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MMmmm, looks lovely.
Just one question, on the final versions (not sure if that is a prototype) is the bottom left selector button going to say 'DVD' on it or are you going to put 'BD' or 'Bluray' as given the price point of the unit and the percentage of blu's now, I would have thought that would make more sense?
Cheers
It will say DVD as some do not know the term Bluray
james
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It will say DVD as some do not know the term Bluray
james
If they don't know what Blu-ray is then they don't deserve to own one.... ;)
How about going with Video?
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If they don't know what Blu-ray is then they don't deserve to own one.... ;)
How about going with Video?
I think all walks of people know what DVD is and for those that are more knowledgeable DVD still has meaning with the proviso that BluRay is a more upscale version of DVD?
james
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I think all walks of people know what DVD is and for those that are more knowledgeable DVD still has meaning with the proviso that BluRay is a more upscale version of DVD?
james
I am sure DVD is fine, I just felt given the target customers Bluray would have been more likely, and longer term DVD will go the way of VHS..
Cheers
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I think all walks of people know what DVD is and for those that are more knowledgeable DVD still has meaning with the proviso that BluRay is a more upscale version of DVD?
james
Just being a pest... :icon_twisted:
Digital Video Disc does still have meaning to most but 5 to 10 years from now it will most likely seem ancient but if we're going to worry about that then CD will also go that way.
Perhaps and this is just a suggestion: DVD/BD
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Perhaps and this is just a suggestion: DVD/BD
You should work for the UN, a good idea.
:beer:
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...thanks, James! pics of the remote, too?? :icon_lol:
al.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51342)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51343)
-
Just being a pest... :icon_twisted:
Digital Video Disc does still have meaning to most but 5 to 10 years from now it will most likely seem ancient but if we're going to worry about that then CD will also go that way.
Perhaps and this is just a suggestion: DVD/BD
...doesn't DVD means Digital Versatile Disc?!?
al.
-
thanks for the BR3 pics, James.
al.
-
??????
http://www.hometheater.com/content/bryston-hdmi-processor-debuts-cedia
James, thanks for the pics of the front. Can we get pics of the back
-
Hi James,
Thank you for the pictures of the front and the remote. November 1 (the tentative ship date of my unit) cannot arrive soon enough!!
Best,
John
-
So what is the cost and what dealers are accepting orders? Did you scrap the trade-in idea
-
So what is the cost and what dealers are accepting orders? Did you scrap the trade-in idea
Just look at the link in reply number 1115 or 1128 ($9.5k)
-
November 1 (the tentative ship date of my unit) cannot arrive soon enough!!
As we are fond of saying here in the US gov't acquisition community, "November 1 of what year?"
This I am sure is the most anticipated release of equipment ever from Bryston and, unfortunately, I won't be able to afford one until it comes on the secondary market :cry:
-
As we are fond of saying here in the US gov't acquisition community, "November 1 of what year?"
This I am sure is the most anticipated release of equipment ever from Bryston and, unfortunately, I won't be able to afford one until it comes on the secondary market :cry:
According to my Bryston dealer Nov. 1, 2011!!
-
James,
May I have the SP-3's physical AND shipping dimensions and weight?
Thank you.
-
James
Now that the SP3 already in the production stage i am wondering what DVD/BD player did you get it hooked up to the SP3 for your evaluation purposes?
Do you still have future plan of having an all Bryston Dvd/Bd player solely for HT only?
Din
-
James
Now that the SP3 already in the production stage i am wondering what DVD/BD player did you get it hooked up to the SP3 for your evaluation purposes?
Do you still have future plan of having an all Bryston Dvd/Bd player solely for HT only?
Din
Hi Din,
So far I have tried 2 Pioneer players , one Panasonic Player and one OPPO player. Plus a few shows we have done with our distributors and they have used a variety of players.
Not sure what you mean on the all Bryston DVD player - If i said that I must have been on drugs that day. :lol:
james
-
Hi James,
I'm just weighing up my options at the moment, I know a little while ago you said that you were trying the BDP-1 direct into the SP3, how did you get on, compared to the BDP-1 into the BDA-1 and BP26?
Basically, if I was to sell my BP26 and BDA-1 do you think I'd be sacrificing any performance just using the SP3 for 2ch and Multi channel?
Thanks,
-
Not sure what you mean on the all Bryston DVD player - If i said that I must have been on drugs that day. :lol:
james
James,
What i meant was,is there any plan for Bryston to come out with the Bryston Dvd/ Bd player in the near future or is it already in the pipeline.I reckon it would be great if Bryston can come out with the Dvd/Bd player.Thks.
Din
-
Hi James,
I'm just weighing up my options at the moment, I know a little while ago you said that you were trying the BDP-1 direct into the SP3, how did you get on, compared to the BDP-1 into the BDA-1 and BP26?
Basically, if I was to sell my BP26 and BDA-1 do you think I'd be sacrificing any performance just using the SP3 for 2ch and Multi channel?
Thanks,
Hi Vipers,
Yes they are very close but I would still give the nod to the BDA-1 if high res is your priority. In all else it is really a close call.
james
-
James,
What i meant was,is there any plan for Bryston to come out with the Bryston Dvd/ Bd player in the near future or is it already in the pipeline.I reckon it would be great if Bryston can come out with the Dvd/Bd player.Thks.
Din
Hi Din,
No I am staying away from the video side of the business like the plague :nono: :nono: :nono:
james
-
Hi Folks – first 10 SP3’s on burnin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51587)
james
-
^^^^
I have just made a little mess :oops:
-
Hi Din,
No I am staying away from the video side of the business like the plague :nono: :nono: :nono:
james
I do not blame you, but have you considered putting an Oppo on a Bryston box similar to how others have?
Cheers
-
I do not blame you, but have you considered putting an Oppo on a Bryston box similar to how others have?
Are you saying it would somehow be worth it to you to have an Oppo player with a Bryston front panel for an extra $1000?
Steve
-
Hi Vipers,
Yes they are very close but I would still give the nod to the BDA-1 if high res is your priority. In all else it is really a close call.
james
Thanks James, I think with hopefully more and more hi res becoming available then the BDA-1 will be staying in my setup.
I take it swapping over the BP26 for an SP3 wouldn't give me any regrets when it comes to 2ch though?
Thanks.
-
Hi Folks – first 10 SP3’s on burnin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51587)
james
Wow, like Alpha, I've just gone weak at the knees :drool:
There's going to be 10 very happy customers very shortly, I hope they use this forum, can't wait to get their feedback, although I fear it could end up putting some strain on my credit card :roll:
-
Thanks James, I think with hopefully more and more hi res becoming available then the BDA-1 will be staying in my setup.
I take it swapping over the BP26 for an SP3 wouldn't give me any regrets when it comes to 2ch though?
Thanks.
Correct - 2 channel bypass is essentially the same.
james
-
Hi Folks – first 10 SP3’s on burnin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51587)
james
Glad to see that production has started.
Best,
John
-
Do the model # start back at 000000001? If so, I wonder who the fella or dame is that is getting it?
-
...however...the score is 60 to 40 for the silver units! :green:
al.
-
Do the model # start back at 000000001? If so, I wonder who the fella or dame is that is getting it?
We keep number 1 :thumb:
James
-
Are you saying it would somehow be worth it to you to have an Oppo player with a Bryston front panel for an extra $1000?
Steve
Yes, to me.
-
Correct - 2 channel bypass is essentially the same.
james
Very good to hear, thank you
Cheers
-
Correct - 2 channel bypass is essentially the same.
james
Thanks James, time to put my BP26 in the classifieds I feel.
-
Are you saying it would somehow be worth it to you to have an Oppo player with a Bryston front panel for an extra $1000?
Steve
Being an Oppo 95 owner and knowing how good it is, I think, like Alpha, I would be tempted by a Bryston flavour of it also, especially if it was sitting with the SP3.
-
Being an Oppo 95 owner and knowing how good it is, I think, like Alpha, I would be tempted by a Bryston flavour of it also, especially if it was sitting with the SP3.
Exactly, unfortunately for some of us who do not have dedicated rooms, rack appeal (or WAF) is still very important, and as Viper rightly said sit an Oppo 93/95 clone with the SP3 would be lovely. Thinking about it a 93 variant is all you need as you would probably stay digital to the sp3....
Cheers
-
Thinking about it a 93 variant is all you need as you would probably stay digital to the sp3....
Good call Alpha, already it's getting cheaper :wink:
-
I'll be using an Oppo 93 as my only digital source for my SP3 when it arrives. For $500 it is an unbeliveable bargain. I'm actually considering purchasing another Oppo 93 as a backup unit. A truely universal player that also outputs 192/24 over the USB drive.
Best,
John
-
James,
Are you going to make blue LEDs a possibility on the SP3.0 (black 17"), to match the rest of my Bryston gear? Also if you are, will the display be blue as well or would that remain green?
Cheers
-
James,
Are you going to make blue LEDs a possibility on the SP3.0 (black 17"), to match the rest of my Bryston gear? Also if you are, will the display be blue as well or would that remain green?
Cheers
Yes Blue is available.
james
-
I'll be using an Oppo 93 as my only digital source for my SP3 when it arrives. For $500 it is an unbeliveable bargain. I'm actually considering purchasing another Oppo 93 as a backup unit. A truely universal player that also outputs 192/24 over the USB drive.
Best,
John
John,
i believe that the SP3's usb input accepts 'only' up to 48/16 signals. it would be interesting to know if 192/24 is doable later as an update...
al.
-
I'll be using an Oppo 93 as my only digital source for my SP3 when it arrives. A truely universal player that also outputs 192/24 over the USB drive.
i believe that the SP3's usb input accepts 'only' up to 48/16 signals. it would be interesting to know if 192/24 is doable later as an update...
I don't know about the SP3.0's USB input, but the Oppo BDP-93 doesn't have a USB output. It has USB and eSATA ports that can read and play files from an attached drive, then output over HDMI or S/PDIF.
Steve
-
Folks,
the SP3's manual is ready to read at Bryston's website!!! :thumb:
al.
-
James,
Am I correct in stating that the SP-3 cannot adjust the L/R balance of 2-channel analog inputs? In other words, if I connect the balanced analog outputs of my BDA-1 into the balanced analog inputs of the SP-3, can I adjust the L/R balance of the output? Unlike the SP-2, the SP-3 doesn't have an analog balance control.
Gary L
-
Hi James, very glad to see the 3.0 is in production.
ANy news concerning the SP 1.7 trade-in program?
Thanks
Luke
-
James,
Am I correct in stating that the SP-3 cannot adjust the L/R balance of 2-channel analog inputs? In other words, if I connect the balanced analog outputs of my BDA-1 into the balanced analog inputs of the SP-3, can I adjust the L/R balance of the output? Unlike the SP-2, the SP-3 doesn't have an analog balance control.
Gary L
Hi Gary,
You can adjust the left and right trim levels using the front panel menu. In 1/2 DB steps.
james
-
Hi James, very glad to see the 3.0 is in production.
ANy news concerning the SP 1.7 trade-in program?
Thanks
Luke
Hi Luke,
Yes we are looking at that now and will be offering a trade in credit depending on the version of the processor - (SP1, SP-1.7 and SP-2)
james
-
Hi Gary,
You can adjust the left and right trim levels using the front panel menu. In 1/2 DB steps.
james
James, wouldn't that just adjust the balance for digital inputs? Doesn't the 2-channel bypass mode 'bypass' the digital circuitry?
Gary
-
James, wouldn't that just adjust the balance for digital inputs? Doesn't the 2-channel bypass mode 'bypass' the digital circuitry?
Gary
Everything goes through the new volume control.
james
-
Everything goes through the new volume control.
james
...then the new volume control is completely digital?
al.
-
...then the new volume control is completely digital?
al.
Its a new design - called a ladder resistor network - super clean and extremely low distortion.
james
-
Its a new design - called a ladder resistor network - super clean and extremely low distortion.
james
And for those who are not so technically versed (like me :dunno: )....here is the wikipedia def:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder)
-
Folks,
the SP3's manual is ready to read at Bryston's website!!! :thumb:
al.
Thanks for the info on the manual. I read the manual this evening and have a couple of questions for James:
1) How does one assign HDMI inputs? The manual specifies the Optical and SPDIF, but I do not see HDMI being metioned. For example, can DVD be assigned to HDMI4?
2) Is there any special configuration for decoding of 5.1 SACD? I assume I need to just set my Oppo player to PCM and I should be okay. Am I correct?
Thanks,
John
-
Hi John
The 8 HDMI inputs line up with the 8 front panel source buttons
No special decoding it will handle SACD as 88.2.
James
-
Thanks James, time to put my BP26 in the classifieds I feel.
You might want to hold on to your BP26. The SP-3 doesn't appear to have a true analog bypass mode. Analog signals are apparently run through the SP-3's digital circuitry. If one is using a BDA-1 the signal goes from digital to analog to digital to analog. I would think the BDP-1 would sound better with a direct digital signal to the SP-3 rather than running it through a BDA-1. At least with a direct digital connection you would have only one digital to analog conversion.
James, did you say that the BDP-1 sounded better when connected to a BDA-1 rather than directly to the SP-3?
Gary L
-
You might want to hold on to your BP26. The SP-3 doesn't appear to have a true analog bypass mode. Analog signals are apparently run through the SP-3's digital circuitry. If one is using a BDA-1 the signal goes from digital to analog to digital to analog. I would think the BDP-1 would sound better with a direct digital signal to the SP-3 rather than running it through a BDA-1. At least with a direct digital connection you would have only one digital to analog conversion.
James, did you say that the BDP-1 sounded better when connected to a BDA-1 rather than directly to the SP-3?
Gary L
The BP26 and the SP-3 sound very close in analog bypass but I think the BDP sounds better through the BDA-1 with high resolution files.
James
-
Analog signals are apparently run through the SP-3's digital circuitry.
Where do you read that?
-
Where do you read that?
Everything runs through the new volume control, something James referred to as a ladder resistor network. Sounds digital to me, so all analog inputs must be converted to digital then back to analog.
This is a major drawback for me. I was anxiously waiting for the release of the SP-3 with it's HDMI inputs and balanced XLR analog inputs. But if the balanced XLR inputs are converted to digital for processing then I think I might just stick with my SP-2.
-
Everything runs through the new volume control, something James referred to as a ladder resistor network. Sounds digital to me, so all analog inputs must be converted to digital then back to analog.
This is a major drawback for me. I was anxiously waiting for the release of the SP-3 with it's HDMI inputs and balanced XLR analog inputs. But if the balanced XLR inputs are converted to digital for processing then I think I might just stick with my SP-2.
James can correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that a ladder resistor network just means that the volume control is implemented through an integrated circuit (IC) rather than a potentiometer. Only analog signals will go through the volume control. I see nothing in the user manual to indicate that an analog signal would be converted to digital and then back to analog. I would be very surprised if that was happening.
Tony
-
Everything runs through the new volume control, something James referred to as a ladder resistor network. Sounds digital to me, so all analog inputs must be converted to digital then back to analog.
Digitally-controlled analog ladder resistor networks are fairly common and are volume controls that are entirely analog, but just use a digital controller to switch in the appropriate resistor value. There is no analog > digital > analog conversion of the signal.
Steve
-
...however...the score is 60 to 40 for the silver units! :green:
al.
Check again! :P
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51830)
-
Mag,
how did you do this? is it a new picture or is it manipulated?? :scratch: :green:
al.
-
Digitally-controlled analog ladder resistor networks are fairly common and are volume controls that are entirely analog, but just use a digital controller to switch in the appropriate resistor value. There is no analog > digital > analog conversion of the signal.
Steve
Thanks Steve - well said :thumb:
james
-
How does this new volume control on the SP3.0 differ from the volume control on the B100?
-
Mag,
how did you do this? is it a new picture or is it manipulated?? :scratch: :green:
al.
I manipulated it using my new Photoshop CS5. Took me about 8 hours to figure out how to do it. 8)
-
How does this new volume control on the SP3.0 differ from the volume control on the B100?
Very similar but many more channels of course.
James
-
Very similar but many more channels of course.
James
So, does the analog signal run through an integrated circuit in the SP-3 volume control or is the resistor network repsonsible for the volume control set up with descrete resistors and an IC controls which ones are used?
The reason why people might be sensitive about the IC thing is that Bryston always pointed out that the descrete setup of the Bryston components is used to "avoid the compromises, phase shift and nonlinearities inherent in IC's."
In fact, i think that in a multi-channel analog bypass setup the SP-3 might have a better, i.e. fully analog, volume control compared to the SP-2. If memory serves me right, the analog volume control (ALPS potentionmeter) of an SP-2 only relates to 2 channel operation, while in multi-channel operation, it relys on the digital volume control. This is not much of an issue if you have a digital source, but forces you to do an analog-to-digital conversion if you want to use the "analog" multi-channel bypass. I have never heard anybody complaining about the multi-channel sound quality of an SP-2 when using the analog multi-channel bypass, though. So, Bryston appears to be using a high quality A/D converter inside of the SP-2.
Or did I get this all wrong?
Markus
-
Check again! :P
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51830)
Wow, cool picture! I do prefer black due to my home cinema focus... I was just wondering why some black units have a rather bright reflection on the blue table... :lol:
Markus
-
Wow, cool picture! I do prefer black due to my home cinema focus... I was just wondering why some black units have a rather bright reflection on the blue table... :lol:
Markus
[/quote]
Oh, that's because I didn't know what I was doing and didn't take that into consideration. Here's another one now that I know what to do but I still missed the reflection.
Update
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51920)
-
Hi Luke,
Yes we are looking at that now and will be offering a trade in credit depending on the version of the processor - (SP1, SP-1.7 and SP-2)
james
Hi James,
A few questions on the trade in credit:
1) Will it be available to only future purchases or will current orders also be applicable? I "pre-ordered" a SP3 in early September.
2) Would I work through my dealer or directly through Bryston to obtain the credit?
3) Do I have to be the original owner? I purchased a used SP1.7 a couple of years ago (SN 000082).
Let me know when you get a chance. No rush. Thank you.
Best,
John
-
Hi James,
Can you tell me if you changed the IR codes on the sp3, or are they the same as on the sp1.7? I may use the 1.7 in another capacity and I do not want to control one when I want to control the other... Thanks, Pete
-
Hi James,
Can you tell me if you changed the IR codes on the sp3, or are they the same as on the sp1.7? I may use the 1.7 in another capacity and I do not want to control one when I want to control the other... Thanks, Pete
You can just check the SP3 manual yourself on the Bryston site.
I would have provided the link but Bryston has put brackets in their url addresses (a big no-no) which disallows linking.
brucek
-
The link to the page that has (all) Bryston manuals is - http://www.bryston.com/BrystonSite05/BrystonDocs.html
-
James,
can the SP3's remote be ordered in black while the processor itself is a silver unit???
al.
-
James,
can the SP3's remote be ordered in black while the processor itself is a silver unit???
al.
Sure :thumb:
James
-
Hi James,
Well the excitement around the SP3 has finally got the better of me and I've just arranged the sale of my BP26-MC to make way for the SP3, also means I'm going to need a BP1.5 also :roll:
Could you please let me have the dimensions, particularly the height, to see if I need to amend my rack, thanks.
Also is the headphone out on the SP3 the same performance as the BP26? will the BHA-1 still be needed to get the best performance from a good pair of headphones?
Thanks.
-
Hi James,
Well the excitement around the SP3 has finally got the better of me and I've just arranged the sale of my BP26-MC to make way for the SP3, also means I'm going to need a BP1.5 also :roll:
Could you please let me have the dimensions, particularly the height, to see if I need to amend my rack, thanks.
Also is the headphone out on the SP3 the same performance as the BP26? will the BHA-1 still be needed to get the best performance from a good pair of headphones?
Thanks.
Hi Vipers,
The SP3 is 14.5 inches deep and 6.25 inches high (including the feet) and 17 or 19 inches wide.
The headphone out is 2 discrete Class A amps so it will be very close to the BP26. A lot will depend on the voltage needed to drive the phones used.
james
-
Thanks as ever James, I'll go and find my tape measure :)
-
James,
any literature already available? (except the manual of course...) :eyebrows:
al.
-
James,
any literature already available? (except the manual of course...) :eyebrows:
al.
Hi Al
No - sorry I am working on it but a few weeks out at this point. :duh:
James
-
Well James, on your head be it :wink: after your words or re-assurance that the SP3 will perform as well as my BP26-MC for 2ch I've just sold my BP26 today and placed my order for the SP3 :)
I can't believe I've ordered a £10,000 processor without even hearing it, that just shows the faith we have in you guys at Bryston :thumb:
Any chance you could do me a special build and include a phono stage in the SP3 :) I'm going to miss that feature from my BP26 as the phono stage in that was fantastic, looks like I'll be placing an order for a BP-1.5 once I've saved up some more pennies.
-
Hi Viper....Flexibility was the reason I went with a standard BP-26 and bought the bryston phone stage separately.
-
Well James, on your head be it :wink: after your words or re-assurance that the SP3 will perform as well as my BP26-MC for 2ch I've just sold my BP26 today and placed my order for the SP3 :)
I can't believe I've ordered a £10,000 processor without even hearing it, that just shows the faith we have in you guys at Bryston :thumb:
Any chance you could do me a special build and include a phono stage in the SP3 :) I'm going to miss that feature from my BP26 as the phono stage in that was fantastic, looks like I'll be placing an order for a BP-1.5 once I've saved up some more pennies.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
james
-
Hi Viper....Flexibility was the reason I went with a standard BP-26 and bought the bryston phone stage separately.
Yes, I'll order a BP-1.5 asap as I was really pleased with the quality of the phono stage in my BP26, I'm just trying to decide if to go with another MPS2, now that I've obviously sold mine with the BP26, to power the BP-1.5 along with the BHA-1, I guess it is worthwhile?
-
Yes, I'll order a BP-1.5 asap as I was really pleased with the quality of the phono stage in my BP26, I'm just trying to decide if to go with another MPS2, now that I've obviously sold mine with the BP26, to power the BP-1.5 along with the BHA-1, I guess it is worthwhile?
Have you thought about using a BIT instead of the MPS2 and running everything through it?
-
Have you thought about using a BIT instead of the MPS2 and running everything through it?
Hi Alpha,
I guess that makes sense, I keep looking at the BIT and keep meaning to get some more information on the 3 different kinds and what would be best for my system, maybe once I've got the SP3 I'll look into it a little further.
Thanks.
-
Saw this blurb on processor upgrade program.
http://www.hifihouse.com/hdliving/learning-center/2011/10/bryston-sp-3-preamp-processor-upgrade-program-2/
I was actually expecting to see something on here first! Is this the real deal, James? If so, can you expand on the logistics?
If this information isn't correct, go ahead and delete this post to avoid any confusion!!
-
Saw this blurb on processor upgrade program.
http://www.hifihouse.com/hdliving/learning-center/2011/10/bryston-sp-3-preamp-processor-upgrade-program-2/
I was actually expecting to see something on here first! Is this the real deal, James? If so, can you expand on the logistics?
If this information isn't correct, go ahead and delete this post to avoid any confusion!!
Hi
We sent it out to the dealers to get some feedback.
james
-
Hi
We sent it out to the dealers to get some feedback.
james
Good that I have sold my SP-2 Upgrade for EUR 2,400... I still think that is a fair price for the unit. It is worth it.
Lets see into how much trade in credit the $1,500 are transferred into EUR.
Cheers!
Markus
-
Hi James,
So the figures are preliminary and may change based on dealer feedback ?
SP2 = $1,500 towards the purchase of SP3...
Where is the official Bryston press release ? :icon_surprised:
-
Hi James,
So the figures are preliminary and may change based on dealer feedback ?
SP2 = $1,500 towards the purchase of SP3...
Where is the official Bryston press release ? :icon_surprised:
Correct- We wanted some feedback and so far it looks like it will be official.
James
-
I just found out from my dealer that my SP3 should ship tomorrow from Bryston. I cannot wait for it to arrive. I feel like a small child waiting for Santa at Christmas.... :D :D
I will provide feedback on this site once I have it installed.
John
-
Correct- We wanted some feedback and so far it looks like it will be official.
James
In these trade-in deals, what actually happens to the traded-in gear? Does the dealer keep it for resale as used? Does the dealer ship it back to Bryston and receive a full cash credit against their account with Bryston? If the latter, what will Bryston do with all the used processors - will they be restored to original spec and sold to family and friends etc. or will they be sold to a recycling company? It always makes me wonder what happens to all the traded in gear.
-
In these trade-in deals, what actually happens to the traded-in gear? Does the dealer keep it for resale as used? Does the dealer ship it back to Bryston and receive a full cash credit against their account with Bryston? If the latter, what will Bryston do with all the used processors - will they be restored to original spec and sold to family and friends etc. or will they be sold to a recycling company? It always makes me wonder what happens to all the traded in gear.
All the units come back to Bryston and the dealer gets a credit. We are thinking a fix up and a resell might be a good idea. Magnepan is interested in a tri-center version of the SP -2.
James
-
Hey James - perhaps an initial offer of some of them to the Bryston Circle folks would be nice... ;)
-
Hi James,
I live in Geneva, Switzerland. Tomorrow morning I will order the SP3(black). Hope it will perfectly match my four 4bsst2(3 working in bridged mode for LCR speakers and 1 in stereo mode for SL&SR). Hope you agree :) L&R speakers are the B&W 802d series the center is the HTM2 Diamond. What do you think of this combination?
Will I get it before year end? Thank you and all the best !javascript:void(0);
-
Hi James,
I live in Geneva, Switzerland. Tomorrow morning I will order the SP3(black). Hope it will perfectly match my four 4bsst2(3 working in bridged mode for LCR speakers and 1 in stereo mode for SL&SR). Hope you agree :) L&R speakers are the B&W 802d series the center is the HTM2 Diamond. What do you think of this combination?
Will I get it before year end? Thank you and all the best !javascript:void(0);
Hi - great system :thumb: No problem getting you AB SP3 for Christmas :thumb:
James
-
Hi - great system :thumb: No problem getting you AB SP3 for Christmas :thumb:
James
Ordered it today together with with a bdp-1! Fyi, the SP3 will replace an Anthem D2v2 in my main home theater system, hope I won't regret it........:)
-
Serial #10 has already arrived to Thailand; and I'm green with envy my lucky audiophile compatriot. :green:
(http://www.piyanaswebboard.com/hosting/image-3954_4EA50CE0.jpg)
(http://www.piyanaswebboard.com/hosting/image-7F91_4EA50CE0.jpg)
(http://www.piyanaswebboard.com/hosting/image-F688_4EA50CE0.jpg)
-
looks real nice !!!
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Serial #10 has already arrived to Thailand; and I'm green with envy my lucky audiophile compatriot. :green:
(http://www.piyanaswebboard.com/hosting/image-3954_4EA50CE0.jpg)
(http://www.piyanaswebboard.com/hosting/image-7F91_4EA50CE0.jpg)
(http://www.piyanaswebboard.com/hosting/image-F688_4EA50CE0.jpg)
Would like to know how it sounds compared to the Aesthetix Calypso Signature?
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Silver & 19"! Must try harder...................... :nono:
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Nice, thanks for the pics Klao, my SP3 really can't come quick enough, hopefully find out today when it will be arriving, since selling my BP26 I'm really missing my music :(
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Must resist...must resist.. :>)
Steve
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Would like to know how it sounds compared to the Aesthetix Calypso Signature?
Unfortunately, the SP3 is not mine. Sorry for the confusion.
Got these pictures from my local dealer's forum; the unit belongs to another customer. I think he used to have BP26. Will ask how does the SP3 compares to BP26 in his set and report back later. Cheers.
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My order is in! (Go Team "Black 19" Rackmount") :thumb: Somewhat sadly / somewhat fondly put my SP 1.7 on CanuckAudioMart yesterday.
It has been a few years since my last Bryston "unboxing" (it was a BCD-1, followed by a long night of listening) so I'm looking extremely forward to the SP3!
Keep the pictures coming folks - they look fantastic.
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How would you compare it to Anthem d2v2?
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From: John T
Sent: October-30-11 1:44 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: SP3
Hi James,
I am enjoying the SP3 very much. It is a huge improvement over my old setup: Oppo 93 feed to SP1.7 by 5.1 analog inputs or by digital coax inputs.
The most significant improvements that I have noticed are:
1) No relay clicking when switching between different digital signals; it was a major distraction on the older SP1.7.
2) Automatic decoding of 5.1 MC SACD is superior to the Oppo 93 decoding through SP1.7 analog inputs.
3) The ability to set the subwoofer crossovers for the front, center, and rear channels separately is an improvement as well.
The sound is extremely detailed and refined. In my opinion you hit a home run with this one. Looking forward to many years of use.
Best,
John
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James,
are the different sample rates (32, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192) shown in the display of the SP3 during playback?
al.
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James,
are the different sample rates (32, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192) shown in the display of the SP3 during playback?
al.
If you want them too - it is an option in the menu setup.
james
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...ok, cool :thumb: but i assume that the bit depths (16, 24) are not shown???
al.
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...ok, cool :thumb: but i assume that the bit depths (16, 24) are not shown???
al.
Correct
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From: "Assaf L
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 03:46:17 -0400
To:James
Subject:Sp-3
Received it today. Tested it with a trafo - First where it counts: Audio quality is fantastic (as can be expected from Bryston).
It was fun to disconnect 10’s of RCA cables and replace them with 3-4 HDMI cables. No analog to pick up hum, no RCA plugs that corrode and require caig gold treatment.
A surprise I was not aware that the processor had a web server. Really cool mockup of the device with working buttons – I was able to control it from my laptop.
The manual is unclear about what are the online capabilities and how to use them: (e.g. how to set up a music server, what is the USB port for, and how to use it USB, etc.).
Overall a very solid machine, well built, functions well, and more importantly, sounds absolutely fantastic, perhaps even better than its predecessor the SP1.7.
Also – a special thank you for taking care of our special circumstances and delivering this to us prior to the movers arriving.
Assaf
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Hi James,
I have taken the plunge and purchased the new SP3 :green:.
It will be sad to see my SP2 go, but advantages of SP3 should ease the cost that I have incurred :thumb:.
Question-1, Will Bryston give provide a promotional gift for the first 100 buyers as you did for the BDP-1?
Question-2, I now need a .5 m XLR cable and wonder if I can get it with my SP3 order?
Ciao, Luigi
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Hi James,
I have taken the plunge and purchased the new SP3 :green:.
It will be sad to see my SP2 go, but advantages of SP3 should ease the cost that I have incurred :thumb:.
Question-1, Will Bryston give provide a promotional gift for the first 100 buyers as you did for the BDP-1?
Question-2, I now need a .5 m XLR cable and wonder if I can get it with my SP3 order?
Ciao, Luigi
Hi Luigi
I should have thought of the first 100 idea - we have already sold over 100 so can't go there.
No problem with the cable - let your dealer know we will include it :thumb:
James
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Hi James,
I have taken the plunge and purchased the new SP3 :green:.
It will be sad to see my SP2 go, but advantages of SP3 should ease the cost that I have incurred :thumb:.
Question-1, Will Bryston give provide a promotional gift for the first 100 buyers as you did for the BDP-1?
Question-2, I now need a .5 m XLR cable and wonder if I can get it with my SP3 order?
Ciao, Luigi
hi, Luigi!
congrats on your new SP3 :thumb:. did you get a trade-in for your SP2-->SP3 deal? if yes, may i ask you politely how much it was?
thank you.
al.
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I believe James said in an erlier post that it was 1500.00 for the SP-2, and 1000.00 for the SP-1.7.
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Also ends the last day of December 2011. Better hurry!
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Now that`s a generous trade in,maybe James would take my AV-8 as a partial trade :thumb:.
Actually if and when I get the SP-3,the AV-8 would be superb backup.
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I believe James said in an erlier post that it was 1500.00 for the SP-2, and 1000.00 for the SP-1.7.
hi, Ralph!
...yes, i know. but there is still no official announcement as far as I know?!? :scratch:
so one question still remains: by trading in the SP2 for an SP3 it would mean that the customer has to add another 1500.00 and the deal is done???
al.
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hi, Ralph!
...yes, i know. but there is still no official announcement as far as I know?!? :scratch:
so one question still remains: by trading in the SP2 for an SP3 it would mean that the customer has to add another 1500.00 and the deal is done???
al.
Hi Al
Assuming the RRP of the SP3 is $10 000, then I would think you would need to add another $7000 to your $1500 to seal the deal via the trade-in terms.
Of course, happy to be corrected to the contrary on this!
Cheers
Adrian
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hi, Adrian!
given that the SP2 was 7000 Euros (new)...this would mean that adding another 7000 makes the SP3 almost unreachable at 14.000?!? so purchasing a brandnew SP3 is "only" 10k...and therefore it doesn't make any sense if someone who has already bought a SP2 for 7k now has to pay again 7k, right? so what kind of "upgrade" is it?? :scratch: talking about myself i purchased the SP2 knowing that Bryston would offer a reasonable update sooner or later. the updates from SP1-->SP1.7 and SP1.7-->SP2 were based on a complete different trade-in.
maybe i just misunderstand the whole thing :roll:...James, please help us out here.
al.
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I've recently seen a few SP1.7 / SP2 units sell for more than the trade in value. If I still owned my SP2 and was looking to purchase (dream :thumb:) an SP3, I'd try and sell it privately and use the extra bargaining power of cash in hand with my dealer.
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hi, Ralph!
...yes, i know. but there is still no official announcement as far as I know?!? :scratch:
so one question still remains: by trading in the SP2 for an SP3 it would mean that the customer has to add another 1500.00 and the deal is done???
al.
I guess that would depend on your local dealer whether he/she would give you a better trade in value because the SP-2 is still being sold as a current preamp. But from what i understand, the SP-3 is retailed out as 9500.00 and the trade in value to your local dealer is 1500.00. So, that means there would be a ballance of 8000.00, or whatever the dealer is willing to discount. How long the trade in is in effect depends on the gurus at Bryston.
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Hi Folks,
The trade in value on an SP2 in North America is $1500.
Overseas it is up to the local distributor to decide on the discount.... given the price points in their specific market.
james
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Hi Folks,
The trade in value on an SP2 in North America is $1500.
Overseas it is up to the local distributor to decide on the discount.... given the price points in their specific market.
james
And there you have it!
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Gee I’m glad the new SP3 just passes on the video: :thumb:
http://hometheaterreview.com/the-next-video-format-war-coming-to-a-home-theater-near-you-4k-vs-fauxk/
james
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: New SP3 Processor
DATE: July 2011
Hi James
Well I finally received my SP3 after a much long wait. I am using the new Cambridge 751 BD Blu-Ray player with my Bryston amplifier and Focal speakers.
I am very impressed at the speed at which the SP3 locked with digital signals being sent to it and also no relay clicking during this process. I found the unit very intuitive in its setup menu and very easy to navigate through. I had the unit setup and ready to go in probably 20 minutes.
The ability to set the subwoofer crossover for each of the channels was very impressive and the big one for me was the fact that you can turn the aux outputs into addition center or subwoofer channels is a great idea.
I found the new DSP engine used in this processor along with the DACs that gave me a result of probably the best sounding unit that I have had the pleasure of using to date. I was absolutely amazed at the clarity of sound and lack of back ground noise that the SP3 delivered, which resulted in the most involving surround experience I have enjoyed in my theater.
Thank goodness that you guys at Bryston had the passion and desire to build this incredible unit.
Garry Taylor
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Gee I’m glad the new SP3 just passes on the video: :thumb:
http://hometheaterreview.com/the-next-video-format-war-coming-to-a-home-theater-near-you-4k-vs-fauxk/ (http://hometheaterreview.com/the-next-video-format-war-coming-to-a-home-theater-near-you-4k-vs-fauxk/)
james
I just had read this, this morning prior to seeing your post - got me wondering about my new (old stock) Panny VT25 and when it would be outdated. :o
Good to know that both Blu-ray and HDMI can accomodate 4K - and very good to know that the SP3 is compatible via the pass-through. :thumb:
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Thx for posting these reviews, James. Are you expecting any reviews from the usual A/V periodicals anytime soon?
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Thx for posting these reviews, James. Are you expecting any reviews from the usual A/V periodicals anytime soon?
Hi
Not soon as we do not supply review product till all our customers have their units.
James
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I approve of those priorities! :thumb:
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Hi
Not soon as we do not supply review product till all our customers have their units.
James
I also approve. Bryston shipped my SP3 one week ahead of scheduled shipping date!
Cheers,
John
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http://www.6moons.com/news/news.html
Scroll down a bit.
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nice isn't it?
would love the update below that too. BDA with 24/192 usb support would be the ultimate. James?
Marius
http://www.6moons.com/news/news.html
Scroll down a bit.
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nice isn't it?
would love the update below that too. BDA with 24/192 usb support would be the ultimate. James?
Marius
Yeah... Well...
Reading James comments here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91168.msg1009986#msg1009986) he still seems to be convinced that 24/192 is the limit, and that Bryston offering a DAC that can do this is rather rare (sorry James, it really isn't). So an upgrade to anything higher probably is not going to happen anytime soon.
On the other hand, 24/96 seems to be the top when it comes to actually making any audible difference. So anything over that is just showing off.
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Yeah... Well...
Reading James comments here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91168.msg1009986#msg1009986) he still seems to be convinced that 24/192 is the limit, and that Bryston offering a DAC that can do this is rather rare (sorry James, it really isn't). So an upgrade to anything higher probably is not going to happen anytime soon.
On the other hand, 24/96 seems to be the top when it comes to actually making any audible difference. So anything over that is just showing off.
Yes good points - the listening tet that were done By Professor Daniel Levitian at McGill University in Montreal we were involved in seemed to support that anything beyond 88.2 was not detectable in blind tests. They are still studying the tests results but the final findings should be interesting.
James
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so you would agree that a BDA usb upgrade over the current 16b/48 limit could be justified?
Marius
Yes good points - the listening tet that were done By Professor Daniel Levitian at McGill University in Montreal we were involved in seemed to support that anything beyond 88.2 was not detectable in blind tests. They are still studying the tests results but the final findings should be interesting.
James
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so you would agree that a BDA usb upgrade over the current 16b/48 limit could be justified?
Marius
Sure if the chips become available - but existence of the BDP-1 really negates the need for the BDA USB.
james
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I understand what you mean, and still disagree. A little, if I might...
There are services my Macbook can deliver, and the Bdp doesn't do. For that I want to connect my Macbook through its usb output to a higher then 16/48 receptacle on the BDA. If only it were because of the other inputs being used already. I have the choice of optical to slink out and in on the BDA, but even if I had another spare one, the USB apparently seems to be the preferred connection over optical.
Eg I stream www.digitalconcerthall.com from my macbook to the tvset/bda. Al sorts of connection possibilities , but the sound optical out usb would be best. As would some other computer related streaming services the BDP just doesn't excel in, because it's design was not meant for that. (I don't complain about that, just to be sure) (would love vTuner though....)
Hope you will consider, when available and possible..
Thanks Marius
Sure if the chips become available - but existence of the BDP-1 really negates the need for the BDA USB.
james
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Sure if the chips become available
Uhm... they are.
but existence of the BDP-1 really negates the need for the BDA USB.
In the case of the BDP, yes. But maybe people also want to have options open for other possibilities.
So I strongly disagree there.
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Uhm... they are.
In the case of the BDP, yes. But maybe people also want to have options open for other possibilities.
So I strongly disagree there.
OK we agree to disagree :thumb:
james
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Now that the fun of setting everything up and doing a CD/SACD marathon is over - Does anyone know what the USB plug is for? Will eventual firmware updates make the SP3 a file player?
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Now that the fun of setting everything up and doing a CD/SACD marathon is over - Does anyone know what the USB plug is for? Will eventual firmware updates make the SP3 a file player?
Hi assafi
The USB is for playback from a computer - it is modular so future updates will be possible.
James
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Great news guys, heard today that my SP3 has made it over to the UK and is ready for collection, I can't make tomorrow, roll on Thursday :thumb:
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Vipers,
Long time! Hope alls well. I'm really eager to hear what you think about the SP3.
I may find myself in a position to consider one next year. Oooh oooh ooooooh.
Kyri
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Hi Folks,
I have a PDF of the new SP3 brouchure - email me at jamestanner@bryston.com if you want a copy :thumb:
james
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Vipers,
Long time! Hope alls well. I'm really eager to hear what you think about the SP3.
I may find myself in a position to consider one next year. Oooh oooh ooooooh.
Kyri
Hey Kyri,
All good thanks, don't worry, I'll be posting my thoughts on the SP3, just try and stop me :) bear with me though, as to start with I'm only going to hook it up for 2ch, need to sort all the cabling out for Multi Channel, looking forward to trying the BDP-1 direct into the SP3 aswell, compared to going through the BDA-1.
Just ordered another Oppo 95 aswell, after selling my first one, so I'll be keen to try the analogues from the Oppo compared to HDMI into the SP3, luckily I've got next week of work, looks like I'm going to be busy.
Right, time to take the new SP3 brochure to bed, just to read I should add :oops: in readyness for the big day tomorrow :thumb:
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o dear, I quess Santa is too late this year....SP3 looking gorgeous!
(you might have to spellcheck: "playback equipment must surpasses the parameters of even
the most demanding high resolution software available." and "UNIQUE APPROACH
he SP-3 is first and foremost an AUDIO product.")
James, contemplating this next Buy....Could you please indicate which (if any) would be the most significant features I'd miss in the SP3 compared to my current setup of bp26/bda1/10bsub. Is the sub crossover just as flexible? I really need that for the Quad Esl's.
Thanks, and congrats with this great new sibling.
Marius
Hi Folks,
I have a PDF of the new SP3 brouchure - email me at jamestanner@bryston.com if you want a copy :thumb:
james
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: SP3 Customer Response
DATE: November 2011
SP-3 Customer Response
“Hi James,
It's been about four and a half years since I placed my order for an SP-2. I can still remember, despite my old age, how excited I was waiting for it to arrive. I had been using a Denon receiver for my preamp/processor and I just knew the SP-2 was going to be a major improvement, the answer to all of the problems with my system. My expectations were really high.
Unfortunately, those expectations were never met. It is true that the SP-2 improved the sound of my system, but not to the degree that I had hoped. The Denon receiver was their reference receiver at the time, so maybe my expectations were too unreasonable. I was convinced that any issues I might have had with my system were not related to my preamp/processor.
So it goes that when I placed my order for an SP-3, I wasn't looking for, or expecting, major improvements in the sound of my system. In fact, I wasn't expecting it to sound much different at all. I justified the added cost on my desire to have the convenience of HDMI inputs and the corresponding reduction in the mass of cables required for connecting my equipment to my SP-2.
I was, however, anxious to see if I could improve the sound of my 2-channel listening with the balanced inputs on the SP-3. James, the difference is unreal. Can balanced inputs really improve the sound that much? Maybe I should have invested in a BP26 a long time ago. I thought of doing so on many occasions. I could have even drug out my Linn Sondek LP-12 turntable that's been stashed in my closet for about ten years. I haven't had a phono preamp since selling my Naim equipment in the early 2000's.
Back to the sound. The background noise, almost nonexistent before, or so I thought, just got substantially quieter. The soundstage substantially deeper. I am hearing inner detail that I have never heard before. The entire audio spectrum sounds cleaner and more pronounced. Surely this improvement goes beyond the benefits of using balanced inputs. By the way, my cabling is basically the same, Kimber Kable KS-1016's with RCA's vs. Kimber Kable KS-1116's with XLR's.
I'm sure others will see major improvements in the audio from video sources as well. I don't try to critique the audio from video sources like I do audio sources. I was content with the audio from the analog outs of my Oppo BDP-95. I'm sure the SP-3 will be just as satisfying, if not more so, with the HDMI connection. Again, I love the convenience of HDMI for video sources.
Access to menu settings is much improved as well, making setup a breeze. The much larger display helps in this regard. I really like the large display of the volume setting which takes up all four lines of the display when changing the volume. I sit about 15 feet from my equipment, yet I can easily see the volume setting on the display.
I had posted concerns about the lack of an analog balance control on the SP-3. My room is not a perfect rectangle, so having the ability to adjust the left/right balance of my analog sources is critical. You had indicated that I could do so in the trim settings. I still don't quite understand how trim settings can be made in bypass mode, but they work wonderfully. Actually much better than the old analog balance control.
I'm still hoping that Bryston will eventually maximize use of the network connection by releasing an app that allows for control of the SP-3 over the Internet. Wishful thinking probably.
Congratulations on the release of this outstanding product. I have no doubt that the reviews of the SP-3 will be much better than the reviews were for the SP-2. Not that the SP-2 reviews were bad, but the SP-3 really is a special product.”
Sincerely,
Gary Listen
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Hi James,
Got my SP3 :thumb:
Unfortunately I haven't had time to open the box yet, got family staying :cry:
I've been looking through the online manual though and just wanted to check with you how best to hook my kit up via XLR, would the following be OK?
Balanced inputs 1 & 2 for the BDA-1 and BCD-1
Balanced AUX for my Linn Uphorik Phono Stage
Does this mean that I can't run 2 subwoofers though?
Can't wait to get my teeth stuck in :)
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Hi James,
Got my SP3 :thumb:
Unfortunately I haven't had time to open the box yet, got family staying :cry:
I've been looking through the online manual though and just wanted to check with you how best to hook my kit up via XLR, would the following be OK?
Balanced inputs 1 & 2 for the BDA-1 and BCD-1
Balanced AUX for my Linn Uphorik Phono Stage
Does this mean that I can't run 2 subwoofers though?
Can't wait to get my teeth stuck in :)
Great - hope you like it - have you heard an SP-3 yet in the store?
There are only 2 sets of analog balanced inputs -the Aux are balanced OUT connectors.
James
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Just a quick note before I get to work. I have had the SP-3 hooked up for 1 day and I must say that anyone that cannot hear the difference between the OPPO and the SP-3 should get your ears checked. I was expecting it to sound like the SP-2 and maybe a little better. I really purchased for the HDMI in's & out's. What I heard after turning it on & going through the menu was not the SP-2, and not just a little better, but allot better!
What I did find a little lacking in detail was the manual. But a quick e-mail to Mike Pickett, and a quick answer back was all it took to explain my questions.
All I can say is, believe the good reviews you are hearing as they are in my opinion, correct! Thanks Bryston!
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All I can say is, believe the good reviews you are hearing as they are in my opinion, correct! Thanks Bryston!
Thanks for the feedback ralph1950, you've got me more than a little excited :drool: I'll hopefully have my SP3 hooked up over the weekend, it can't come quick enough.
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Great - hope you like it - have you heard an SP-3 yet in the store?
There are only 2 sets of analog balanced inputs -the Aux are balanced OUT connectors.
James
Hi James,
No, I haven't heard it at all yet, I'm hoping to have mine hooked up for 2ch over the weekend, got to wait for my XLR's to be delivered before hooking up for Multi Channel, I've ordered the Star Wars Blu Rays in anticipation :)
Regarding the inputs, I guess my best bet then is to have my 2 favourite sources, BDP-1 and Vinyl, hooked up using the 2 balanced inputs and the BCD-1, which gets very little use now tbh, hooked up via single ended?
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Hi James,
No, I haven't heard it at all yet, I'm hoping to have mine hooked up for 2ch over the weekend, got to wait for my XLR's to be delivered before hooking up for Multi Channel, I've ordered the Star Wars Blu Rays in anticipation :)
Regarding the inputs, I guess my best bet then is to have my 2 favourite sources, BDP-1 and Vinyl, hooked up using the 2 balanced inputs and the BCD-1, which gets very little use now tbh, hooked up via single ended?
Yes or use the digital COAX out on the CD player to the CD digital COAX in on the SP3.
james
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Yes or use the digital COAX out on the CD player to the CD digital COAX in on the SP3.
james
Thanks James, or I suppose digital into the BDA-1? in theory would you say that the Dacs in the SP3 should outperform the Dacs in in the BCD-1? Does the SP3 use the same or similar Crystal Dacs?
Thanks,
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got to wait for my XLR's to be delivered before hooking up for Multi Channel, I've ordered the Star Wars Blu Rays in anticipation :)
I would be very interested in hearing your impressions of the Star Wars Blu Rays through your system.
Note that the Star Wars Blu Rays are in 6.1 surround sound and do not have a 5.1 option in English. Many Blu Ray players including the OPPO's do not handle 6.1 properly (I have both the OPPO BDP-93 and 95). The rear channels should have the same mono rear channel sound but with the OPPO's the sound comes from only one speaker and is not in balance. If your system is 5.1 then the rear channel would either just drop out or be folded into your back channels. Just giving you something to look for so you know it's not a Bryston SP 3.0 problem if your running in 7.1. with a 6.1 disc.
Gary
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Thanks James, or I suppose digital into the BDA-1? in theory would you say that the Dacs in the SP3 should outperform the Dacs in in the BCD-1? Does the SP3 use the same or similar Crystal Dacs?
Thanks,
No I would expect you will prefer the sound of the CD player through the analog outputs.
james
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Quote: "I'm still hoping that Bryston will eventually maximize use of the network connection by releasing an app that allows for control of the SP-3 over the Internet. Wishful thinking probably."
Wishful thinking at your command - the feature exists now - point your browser at the IP address of the SP-3 - there are full controls of the SP3. Somewhat sluggish but it works.
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Just a quick note before I get to work. I have had the SP-3 hooked up for 1 day and I must say that anyone that cannot hear the difference between the OPPO and the SP-3 should get your ears checked. I was expecting it to sound like the SP-2 and maybe a little better. I really purchased for the HDMI in's & out's. What I heard after turning it on & going through the menu was not the SP-2, and not just a little better, but allot better!
What I did find a little lacking in detail was the manual. But a quick e-mail to Mike Pickett, and a quick answer back was all it took to explain my questions.
All I can say is, believe the good reviews you are hearing as they are in my opinion, correct! Thanks Bryston!
Totally agreed - I believe the SP3 is indeed a superb product.
I also agree the manual is lacking, but I assume that the SP3 firmware is a work in progress. Manuals are doomed to always fall behind unless they happen to be online wikis or spread out over forum pages.
I wonder just what the platform is capable of... The odd networking capabilities (DHCP server??) and the USB capabilities makes me think that there are many updates to keep us occupied for quite some time. For example, wouldn't it be nice if a slimplayer application could run on the SP3?
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Thanks James, or I suppose digital into the BDA-1? in theory would you say that the Dacs in the SP3 should outperform the Dacs in in the BCD-1? Does the SP3 use the same or similar Crystal Dacs?
Thanks,
I would have thought, that was the way to go; BCD-1 optical into the BDA-1 and then use the balanced analogue out you already have connected to the SP3.
I believe James said somewhere that the SP3 uses the same Crystal DACs in single formation in the SP3, not dual mode as in the BDA-1.
Cheers
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I would have thought, that was the way to go; BCD-1 optical into the BDA-1 and then use the balanced analogue out you already have connected to the SP3.
I believe James said somewhere that the SP3 uses the same Crystal DACs in single formation in the SP3, not dual mode as in the BDA-1.
Cheers
Hi
It is usually better in an all in one CD player to use the analog outs - assuming a quality output stage like in the Bryston BCD. The reason is that you know exactly what digital signal is coming off the drive and can clock the drive to the DAC precisely - therefor very low jitter. When you have an external DAC you have to deal with unknowns and therefore have to reclock and resample the incoming signal which results in higher jitter numbers typically.
James
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I would be very interested in hearing your impressions of the Star Wars Blu Rays through your system.
Note that the Star Wars Blu Rays are in 6.1 surround sound and do not have a 5.1 option in English. Many Blu Ray players including the OPPO's do not handle 6.1 properly (I have both the OPPO BDP-93 and 95). The rear channels should have the same mono rear channel sound but with the OPPO's the sound comes from only one speaker and is not in balance. If your system is 5.1 then the rear channel would either just drop out or be folded into your back channels. Just giving you something to look for so you know it's not a Bryston SP 3.0 problem if your running in 7.1. with a 6.1 disc.
Gary
Thanks for letting me know Gary, how does this happen though, surely the Star Wars Blu Rays are one of the most anticipated releases so far on Blu Ray, hopefully there will be a firmware update for the 95 to rectify this, at least I now know that it isn't a problem with the SP3.
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Wishful thinking at your command - the feature exists now - point your browser at the IP address of the SP-3 - there are full controls of the SP3. Somewhat sluggish but it works.
This is something I was thinking about the other day, as I demo quite a few recievers in our store, using the Ipad to control them is a real bonus, especially something like Pioneers app which is very polished.
James, is an Ipad app to access setup and control the features of the SP3 something in the pipeline? I have to say that would be fantastic news :)
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This is something I was thinking about the other day, as I demo quite a few recievers in our store, using the Ipad to control them is a real bonus, especially something like Pioneers app which is very polished.
James, is an Ipad app to access setup and control the features of the SP3 something in the pipeline? I have to say that would be fantastic news :)
Hi Vipers
Yes it is certainly something we are going to look at. We are also working on interface software for control systems such as Crestron and Savant.
James
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Hi Vipers
Yes it is certainly something we are going to look at. We are also working on interface software for control systems such as Crestron and Savant.
James
Hi James,
Excellent news, can you concentrate on the ipad app first please :wink:
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In my opinion, an owners manual should cover ALL of the menu options on said component. Explained in (minor) detail for those that want to set up the component themselves and not hire an installer. What could be done is for an amendment to be sent (by E-mail) to owners of said component to fill in the gaps. Of course, this is just my opinion. My other customer that I delivered an SP-3 to is also excited. Mainly because he was skeptical on the sound quality over the SP-2 and did not expect allot. He was also surprised. He is also selling his Olive player if anyone is interested. I do not know anything about that player but can forward your interest to him though.
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James, is an Ipad app to access setup and control the features of the SP3 something in the pipeline? I have to say that would be fantastic news :)
My customer would is also interested in a Ipad app because he controls everything with the Ipad.
-
In my opinion, an owners manual should cover ALL of the menu options on said component. Explained in (minor) detail for those that want to set up the component themselves and not hire an installer. What could be done is for an amendment to be sent (by E-mail) to owners of said component to fill in the gaps. Of course, this is just my opinion. My other customer that I delivered an SP-3 to is also excited. Mainly because he was skeptical on the sound quality over the SP-2 and did not expect allot. He was also surprised. He is also selling his Olive player if anyone is interested. I do not know anything about that player but can forward your interest to him though.
Hi Ralph
Yes the SP3 manual at this point has a PRELIMINARY wording across the front of it. I wanted to get our customers started and we also factory set the menus that would be most applicable for most people. We assume as we get feedback we can add info in the areas where people seem to need the most help :thumb:
James
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As always, on the ball and customer oriented! Thanks James. :thumb:
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Hi James, I was just reading through the SP3 owners manual (not that I am one, but it is good to dream..). I use a Logitech RF extender with my present pre/pro and have it wired using the a standard 3.5mm stereo phone jack cable. so, is the 3mm mentioned in the manual (snip below) a typo and should really be the standard 3.5mm, or is 3mm another US centric standard? I had a quick google and nothing seem to pop up.
AUXILIARY INFRA-RED INPUT
A 3mm two conductor phone jack which will accept
a hardwired DC voltage that is the electrical equivalent
of the optical signal generated by an infrared
emitter in a remote control. This will primarily used
as by infra-red remote control extenders. The tip
is positive, the sleeve is negative and the signal level
should be 5vdc max. (Positive or “1”) and 0v or
ground (negative or “0”)
It would be really important to me that the Logitech RF extender worked with the SP3.
Cheers
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standard 3.5mm stereo phone jack cable
Stereo?
-
He probably meant 3.5mm mono jack plug.
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Here we go, the SP3 sitting in the rack at last, just warming her up before my first listen :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54010)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54011)
Here's a few un-boxing pics for anyone who is sad like me :wink:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54012)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54013)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54014)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54017)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54015)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54016)
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Whats with that rats nest of wires behind the rack? :icon_surprised:
Just a little morning stab! :lol:
So, how was the listening? Details.
-
Stereo?
Yes, stereo, although Logitech claim that you need a mono cable, going between my RF extender and my Marantz AV7005 pre/pro I use a standard 3.5mm Stereo jack cable, which works perfectly...
Cheers
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Whats with that rats nest of wires behind the rack? :icon_surprised:
It is just his rental, whilst a purpose built house is being designed for the kit, lucky @#:+*&^%$...
:thumb:
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It is just his rental, whilst a purpose built house is being designed for the kit, lucky @#:+*&^%$...
:thumb:
Yes, I would say so!
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Hi Vipers,
On all my other Bryston gear I have at home I prefer Silver - I have to say though that the SP3 in Black is reallllly niiiiice :thumb:
james
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Thanks for sharing those pics, Vipers! Gorgeous.
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Thanks Guys,
Just posted this the Bryston thread on AVForum so I thought I'd share it over the pond :)
Well, just been jumping from track to track trying out all my favourite demo music, now I'm going to try and be unbiased, honest, but I can honestly say I've never heard my system sound this good before.
Now this maybe due to fact that this is the first time I've tried a full Bryston system in my new house with the larger living room, but it sounds bloody awesome, it is the only way to describe it, it's been real goose bump time :) I'm sure my BP26 would have sounded this good but I sold it before moving, so I'll never know, one thing is for sure though, when it comes to 2ch the SP3 definitely is no compromise.
I'm getting a clarity in the mid/treble like I've never heard before, amazing seperation and a real transparancy, especially when it comes to vocals, they are so clean and revealing, totally captivating.
So I think it's fair to say that the SP3 has passed it's 2ch test with flying colours, and at last I've got a processor that is phenomenal with music, I'm sure it is going to blow me away when it comes to film soundtracks equally, unfortunately I've got to wait till at least the weekend to hook up multi channel, but in all honesty that isn't too bad as I've got loads of music I want to listen to in the meantime.
Right, back to it :D
BTW, Thank You to everyone at Bryston, I couldn't be happier :thumb:
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Thanks Guys,
Just posted this the Bryston thread on AVForum so I thought I'd share it over the pond :)
Well, just been jumping from track to track trying out all my favourite demo music, now I'm going to try and be unbiased, honest, but I can honestly say I've never heard my system sound this good before.
Now this maybe due to fact that this is the first time I've tried a full Bryston system in my new house with the larger living room, but it sounds bloody awesome, it is the only way to describe it, it's been real goose bump time :) I'm sure my BP26 would have sounded this good but I sold it before moving, so I'll never know, one thing is for sure though, when it comes to 2ch the SP3 definitely is no compromise.
I'm getting a clarity in the mid/treble like I've never heard before, amazing seperation and a real transparancy, especially when it comes to vocals, they are so clean and revealing, totally captivating.
So I think it's fair to say that the SP3 has passed it's 2ch test with flying colours, and at last I've got a processor that is phenomenal with music, I'm sure it is going to blow me away when it comes to film soundtracks equally, unfortunately I've got to wait till at least the weekend to hook up multi channel, but in all honesty that isn't too bad as I've got loads of music I want to listen to in the meantime.
Right, back to it :D
BTW, Thank You to everyone at Bryston, I couldn't be happier :thumb:
Hi Vipers - good to hear. I'd be interested in your assessment of the difference between your vinyl and digital (Bryston) front-ends given the resolution of the SP3.
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very good setup, Vipers! congratulations :thumb:
al.
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Congrats Vipers :thumb: :drool:
Please do tell how you have it all connected and with what.
Thanks!
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HI Vipers,
Congrats, sympathize with you....expect to hear from your listening experiences soon...
What rack do you have there? Looks beautiful, but are those platforms detached? I have a need for a new rack, but since I swap around rather a bit, it needs to be easy to move around, and have a simple but adequate "Ikea" cabinet on wheels for now. Nothing worthy of Brystons setup. How do you manage to adjust cabling in your setup, without having to disassemble the whole setup?
Thanks,
Marius
Here we go, the SP3 sitting in the rack at last, just warming her up before my first listen :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54010)
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http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/index.php
There you go, Marius.
Kyri
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thanks!
http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/index.php
There you go, Marius.
Kyri
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thanks!
I can fully recommend Hifi Racks, top quality and excellent service.
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I can't recommend HiFi Racks highly enough, just ring 01572 756447 and ask for Alisha, she couldn't be more helpful, I've just had to order another 2 tiers to cater for my new phono stage and to put my Oppo 95 in the rack.
Like you Marius I seem to change my kit quite frequently, although hopefully now I have the SP3 that will change, but once you have the tiers you can just order new legs to accommodate the new kit at around £50 for four, they just unscrew.
I've found for Bryston kit that the correct size for each tier is 595mm x 450mm as the standard 400mm is a little on the small side.
It really makes the SP3 sing btw :)
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I can't recommend HiFi Racks highly enough, just ring 01572 756447 and ask for Alisha, she couldn't be more helpful, I've just had to order another 2 tiers to cater for my new phono stage and to put my Oppo 95 in the rack.
Like you Marius I seem to change my kit quite frequently, although hopefully now I have the SP3 that will change, but once you have the tiers you can just order new legs to accommodate the new kit at around £50 for four, they just unscrew.
I've found for Bryston kit that the correct size for each tier is 595mm x 450mm as the standard 400mm is a little on the small side.
It really makes the SP3 sing btw :)
Hey Vipers,
What are they like with weight limits? Those 7Bs aren't exactly light!
Kyri
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Hey Vipers,
What are they like with weight limits? Those 7Bs aren't exactly light!
Kyri
That's like two inches of hardwood - you could have two guys stand (400lbs) on one of those shelves and it wouldn't buckle. I'm sure it would easily handle a 28B, let alone the 7Bs but let's see if Viper has a manufacturers rating.
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It looks like the max load per shelf is 150kg's, so each shelf will take 3 x 28B's, now there's an idea :)
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It looks like the max load per shelf is 150kg's, so each shelf will take 3 x 28B's, now there's an idea :)
I should'da stuck with 3 guys, rather than 2 - first instinct is most always correct. :lol:
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James, quick question, if I set the speaker size to large, which obviously with MB2i's would make sense, and the crossover at 40Hz, is the crossover ignored and the whole frequency range is channelled through the MB's, if this is the case does only the LFE come through the sub?
Thanks,
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HI Vipers,
SInce they are separate platforms, I'm a bit concerned about stability. My family members tend to run around the place, and I would not want to have misplaced platforms. Are they firmly attached somehow, or indeed 'displaceable'?
Thanks for the details,
Marius
I can't recommend HiFi Racks highly enough, just ring 01572 756447 and ask for Alisha, she couldn't be more helpful, I've just had to order another 2 tiers to cater for my new phono stage and to put my Oppo 95 in the rack.
Like you Marius I seem to change my kit quite frequently, although hopefully now I have the SP3 that will change, but once you have the tiers you can just order new legs to accommodate the new kit at around £50 for four, they just unscrew.
I've found for Bryston kit that the correct size for each tier is 595mm x 450mm as the standard 400mm is a little on the small side.
It really makes the SP3 sing btw :)
-
James, quick question, if I set the speaker size to large, which obviously with MB2i's would make sense, and the crossover at 40Hz, is the crossover ignored and the whole frequency range is channelled through the MB's, if this is the case does only the LFE come through the sub?
Thanks,
Hi Vipers,
Yes - any speaker you set to LARGE ignores the crossover point. In studios with movie scores all the speakers are usually set to Large and the .1 channel is strictly an EFFECTs channel NOT a SUB.
james
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From: w.aschenberger
Sent: November-24-11 6:54 AM
To: jamestanner@bryston.ca
Subject: SP3
Hello Mr. Tanner,
Well Mr. Tanner, what can I say: I call a SP3 Processor since about 3 weeks my own.
This Processor ist just awsome!! The performance is stunning!
Total control over the whole spectrum, very clear accurate sound, very crisp reproduction, very logic and easy to use, ......could go on and on....
Have 2 Bryston Power Packs and a 9B SST (3 channel) as Power Amps connected.
Drive a 5.0 PMC Speaker Set up.
Just wanted to tell you that the SP3 is the crown to my Sourround System!! - Perfect!!
Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Werner Aschenberger
RCM design GmbH
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Hi Viper,
I notice you have have the BDA still setup with the SP3.0. Any chance of sharing your experience between the two? I am especially interested whether the double Chip in the BDA makes a real difference with hires material as opposed to the single chip in the SP3.0. I mention Hires especially because it seems to be very difficult to hear big differences on standard cd-resolution between the BCD (single chip) and the BDA/BDP (dual chip)
Marius
Like you Marius I seem to change my kit quite frequently, although hopefully now I have the SP3 that will change,
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Hi Vipers,
Yes - any speaker you set to LARGE ignores the crossover point. In studios with movie scores all the speakers are usually set to Large and the .1 channel is strictly an EFFECTs channel NOT a SUB.
james
Thanks James, that makes sense, so With PMC MB2i's for front L+R, CB6i for centre and FB1i's for rears, would you set everything to large, as the CB6i goes down to 35Hz and the FB1i's to 28Hz?
Thanks,
-
HI Vipers,
SInce they are separate platforms, I'm a bit concerned about stability. My family members tend to run around the place, and I would not want to have misplaced platforms. Are they firmly attached somehow, or indeed 'displaceable'?
Thanks for the details,
Marius
Hi Marius,
Unfortunately they are not firmly attached, the spikes on the bottom of the legs sit in little indentations on the platforms, if hit hard enough they could come apart, basically each platform just sits on the one underneath, basically they are not very child friendly.
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Hi Viper,
I notice you have have the BDA still setup with the SP3.0. Any chance of sharing your experience between the two? I am especially interested whether the double Chip in the BDA makes a real difference with hires material as opposed to the single chip in the SP3.0. I mention Hires especially because it seems to be very difficult to hear big differences on standard cd-resolution between the BCD (single chip) and the BDA/BDP (dual chip)
Marius
This is something I'm quite keen to test myself, it's just a matter of getting the time at the moment, leave it with me and as soon as I get a chance I'll have a little shootout and report back :)
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Thanks James, that makes sense, so With PMC MB2i's for front L+R, CB6i for centre and FB1i's for rears, would you set everything to large, as the CB6i goes down to 35Hz and the FB1i's to 28Hz?
Thanks,
Hi,
I set everything to large because I want to replicate the studio production.
james
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Thanks James, that makes sense, so With PMC MB2i's for front L+R, CB6i for centre and FB1i's for rears, would you set everything to large, as the CB6i goes down to 35Hz and the FB1i's to 28Hz?
Thanks,
I set ALL the OB1i's, the CB6i and the TB2i's as large and much prefer the sound that way.
Cheers
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From: Robert Fijałkowski
Sent: November-24-11 11:38 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: SP3
Dear James,
Unfortunately I compare SP3 with my Apogee Ensemble in my flat... I thought that the Apogee is a professional converter... SP3 "killed" Apogee by dynamic, clarity, resolution , everything!
Best regards
Robert Fijałkowski
MJ AUDIO LAB
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Hi,
I set everything to large because I want to replicate the studio production.
james
Thanks James,
Just tried pointing the Ipad at the SP3 web browser, fantastic, the start of an Ipad app :) you can switch inputs and alter the menu settings, the volume doesn't seem to work at the moment though, I know it is very early days but if this could be rectified I'd be over the moon :)
Thanks,
-
"The new Lexicon piece is the only processor that I know of running everything at 24/192."
********
Read this statement on another site. Is this true? My reading of the SP3 specs is that it is 24/192 digital processing.
However I am totally confused with the Blu-Ray audio possibilities and decoding.
Steve
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"The new Lexicon piece is the only processor that I know of running everything at 24/192."
********
Read this statement on another site. Is this true? My reading of the SP3 specs is that it is 24/192 digital processing.
However I am totally confused with the Blu-Ray audio possibilities and decoding.
Steve
Hi Steve
Yes the SP3 can do NATIVE 192/24. The highest I have seen on BRay is 96/24 on music Video discs and 48/16 on movies. The main difference with BRay is the 5.1 or 7.1 digital bitstreams are uncompressed audio.
I am currently listening to my BDP-1 with our latest Bryston thumbdrive which has 7 songs at 192/24 and 2 at 96/24 through the SP-3. :thumb:
James
By the way I do not think you want to run everything at 192/24 as that means you are up sampling everything rather than listening at the Native resolution - maybe that's what the mean?
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Thanks James,
Just tried pointing the Ipad at the SP3 web browser, fantastic, the start of an Ipad app :) you can switch inputs and alter the menu settings, the volume doesn't seem to work at the moment though, I know it is very early days but if this could be rectified I'd be over the moon :)
Thanks,
Agreed it is very cool. Volume does indeed work - move the slider and push the big volume button. Note the extended command window and serial viewer on the side.
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Agreed it is very cool. Volume does indeed work - move the slider and push the big volume button. Note the extended command window and serial viewer on the side.
I'll have to give the volume another try, I just couldn't get the slider to move on my IPad, worked fine on the PC though.
Just got home from work to be greeted by 2 policeman to tell me that I'd been burgled whilst at work, house is a real mess, they turned every room upside down, luckily they must have been stupid thieves as it looks like my Bryston rack survived, every cloud has a silver lining I guess.
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I'll have to give the volume another try, I just couldn't get the slider to move on my IPad, worked fine on the PC though.
Just got home from work to be greeted by 2 policeman to tell me that I'd been burgled whilst at work, house is a real mess, they turned every room upside down, luckily they must have been stupid thieves as it looks like my Bryston rack survived, every cloud has a silver lining I guess.
Wow Vipers - hope everyone is OK.
James
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Wow Vipers - hope everyone is OK.
James
Thanks James, the cats are a little freaked tbh, must have been scary for them having strangers in the house trashing it, other than that all good, ta.
I had a phone call on the way home from work from the police saying that we had been burgled, I've never felt so ill as i didn't know what I was going to find once I'd got home, all I could think about was my SP3, as I haven't got round to insuring it yet, luckily it all looks OK.
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OH Man...I feel for you Vipers. It's good that it wasn't as bad as you initially thought - better to focus on the good things.
Well, hope things come back together soon. Cheers.
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Thanks James, the cats are a little freaked tbh, must have been scary for them having strangers in the house trashing it, other than that all good, ta.
I had a phone call on the way home from work from the police saying that we had been burgled, I've never felt so ill as i didn't know what I was going to find once I'd got home, all I could think about was my SP3, as I haven't got round to insuring it yet, luckily it all looks OK.
Sorry to hear about the robbery. I always set the alarm when leaving. Doesn't guarantee anything but makes it a bit more inconvenient as a target. Over the years, it has gone off once or twice by accident (I was getting food for people re-siding some of the back their hammers set off the glass break detector) and it is usually a matter of minutes before the police arrive. The new windows I got (a couple of years back) also have little spring thumb locks that allow the window to be opened from the top or bottom a few inches without setting off the alarm and would be take tons of work to totally smash the window to get in. I also have a camera on the front door (bought a wireless sending device years back for audio that did not work out) and at some point I'll get something to time lapse record. I also have a solar powered light with motion detector that goes off when someone approaches the front door at night. I just ordered a better camera (that should be here before the weekend) on sale. The one I currently have is about 10 years old. None of the stuff was expensive (I think the new camera was $31) and I look at it as a cheap investment to deter someone.
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Thanks James, the cats are a little freaked tbh, must have been scary for them having strangers in the house trashing it, other than that all good, ta.
I had a phone call on the way home from work from the police saying that we had been burgled, I've never felt so ill as i didn't know what I was going to find once I'd got home, all I could think about was my SP3, as I haven't got round to insuring it yet, luckily it all looks OK.
Hi Vipers and sorry about the bad news.Just my two cents,you want to make sure to insuring everything.I have even my soldering iron insured.
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Hope all is well Vipers!
Thanks James, the cats are a little freaked tbh, must have been scary for them having strangers in the house trashing it, other than that all good, ta.
I had a phone call on the way home from work from the police saying that we had been burgled, I've never felt so ill as i didn't know what I was going to find once I'd got home, all I could think about was my SP3, as I haven't got round to insuring it yet, luckily it all looks OK.
-
I noticed the same thing right away because I'm also wondering if I should trade in both my SP1.7 AND BDA-1 for a SP3 or just the SP1.7 =)
Hi Viper,
I notice you have have the BDA still setup with the SP3.0. Any chance of sharing your experience between the two? I am especially interested whether the double Chip in the BDA makes a real difference with hires material as opposed to the single chip in the SP3.0. I mention Hires especially because it seems to be very difficult to hear big differences on standard cd-resolution between the BCD (single chip) and the BDA/BDP (dual chip)
Marius
-
Hi James -
I was wondering what are the capabilities of the SP3 USB input. E.g. when I try 96kHz at 24 bit (WASAPI) both foobar and JRiver insist that the player does not support it. 48kHz, however, is supported.
- what are the supported signal formats through USB?
- are there optional drivers (e.g. ASIO drivers) that can be used in conjunction with the SP3?
Thanks,
Assaf
-
Hi James -
I was wondering what are the capabilities of the SP3 USB input. E.g. when I try 96kHz at 24 bit (WASAPI) both foobar and JRiver insist that the player does not support it. 48kHz, however, is supported.
- what are the supported signal formats through USB?
- are there optional drivers (e.g. ASIO drivers) that can be used in conjunction with the SP3?
Thanks,
Assaf
USB is 48/16. The circuit board for USB is modular though so upgrade will be available when the chips become available.
james
-
I'll have to give the volume another try, I just couldn't get the slider to move on my IPad, worked fine on the PC though.
Just got home from work to be greeted by 2 policeman to tell me that I'd been burgled whilst at work, house is a real mess, they turned every room upside down, luckily they must have been stupid thieves as it looks like my Bryston rack survived, every cloud has a silver lining I guess.
Mother Fraccers!! Mate, you seem to be taking it very well - I'm glad. These idiots are generally looking for the same things: jewellery & cash. My sister was burgled and the morons left the laptops and other sundry items scattered around the living room.
They wouldn't have a clue as to what high end hi-fi is.
Kyri
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SP3 arrived yesterday! Spent most of the night at the airport so I barely had time to unbox and get into the rack - no chance for critical listening yet, but the fit, finish, display clarity, and new volume display look fantastic. I'm looking very forward to the weekend when I can put it through its paces.
James: Is there a new serial configuration for the SP3? I attached the serial cable that I used with my SP17 but I couldn't seem to communicate with the SP3.
Would you mind having engineeringn confirm the serial cable wiring scheme (i.e. does the SP3 want a straight through serial cable, or a crossover type?) as well as the protocol specs (Baud, Stop Bit, Parity, Flow Control, etc)? I couldn't find those in the manual or online.
I also have a question about the rack ears. They are 3U, but the SP3 itself is bigger than 3U? I'll save details on that question for later when I can take some pictures to better show what the heck i'm talking about.
Thanks!
Scott
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Just got home from work to be greeted by 2 policeman to tell me that I'd been burgled whilst at work, house is a real mess, they turned every room upside down, luckily they must have been stupid thieves as it looks like my Bryston rack survived, every cloud has a silver lining I guess.
So sorry to hear that Vipers. Makes the blood boil, doesn't it. With the smash and grab routine employed so often these days, even having a home alarm system can't help if they are brazen enough. Glad the idiots missed the Bryston stuff.
-
SP3 arrived yesterday! Spent most of the night at the airport so I barely had time to unbox and get into the rack - no chance for critical listening yet, but the fit, finish, display clarity, and new volume display look fantastic. I'm looking very forward to the weekend when I can put it through its paces.
James: Is there a new serial configuration for the SP3? I attached the serial cable that I used with my SP17 but I couldn't seem to communicate with the SP3.
Would you mind having engineeringn confirm the serial cable wiring scheme (i.e. does the SP3 want a straight through serial cable, or a crossover type?) as well as the protocol specs (Baud, Stop Bit, Parity, Flow Control, etc)? I couldn't find those in the manual or online.
I also have a question about the rack ears. They are 3U, but the SP3 itself is bigger than 3U? I'll save details on that question for later when I can take some pictures to better show what the heck i'm talking about.
Thanks!
Scott
Hi Scott,
Yes there is an all new serial configuration - email me and I will send it.
Yes C-Series faceplates are 1/2 inches higher than a standard Rack mount faceplate.
james
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"With the smash and grab routine employed so often these days, "
*******
That was happening in my area earlier this year, with forced entry into occupies dwellings. After several robbers were shot by homeowners, this activity seems to have stopped.
Steve
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Thanks for all the kind words and support guys.
Today has been an interesting one with forensics round scouring the place for fingerprints, I guess nothing will come of it but I can't fault the polices response, now it's time to put the house back together and get an alarm sorted asap.
I was so angry when I got home yesterday I really could have done something I may have regretted if I would have caught the sods in the act, it must be so easy for these things to get out of hand, we found one of the culprits duffel coat buttons on our living room floor last night, so we went up the local pub to see if we could find someone with a button missing, unfortunately, they weren't that stupid.
Anyway, it could have been worse, now I can concentrate on hooking up the SP3 with XLR's throughout and in 5.1 :)
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"With the smash and grab routine employed so often these days, "
*******
That was happening in my area earlier this year, with forced entry into occupies dwellings. After several robbers were shot by homeowners, this activity seems to have stopped.
Steve
In Canada and the U.K. homeowners don't have that option open to them.
There is a phrase from the movie Pulp Fiction that I'll very roughly quote. It was said by Vincent Vega (played by John Travolta) in referring to finding his car key scratched. He said, "...it would have been worth it, just to be able to have caught them doing it". Yes, sometimes the thought of revenge seems oh, so sweet, but it really never turns out well. Better to just pick up and go - and enjoy life's pleasures...including SP3's.
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In Canada and the U.K. homeowners don't have that option open to them.
There is a phrase from the movie Pulp Fiction that I'll very roughly quote. It was said by Vincent Vega (played by John Travolta) in referring to finding his car key scratched. He said, "...it would have been worth it, just to be able to have caught them doing it". Yes, sometimes the thought of revenge seems oh, so sweet, but it really never turns out well. Better to just pick up and go - and enjoy life's pleasures...including SP3's.
Spot on Soundgame, that is as long as the thieving buggers haven't nicked your SP3, luckily for me I'd imagine that the only hifi brand that they had probably heard of is apple :roll:
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I'll have to give the volume another try, I just couldn't get the slider to move on my IPad, worked fine on the PC though.
Just got home from work to be greeted by 2 policeman to tell me that I'd been burgled whilst at work, house is a real mess, they turned every room upside down, luckily they must have been stupid thieves as it looks like my Bryston rack survived, every cloud has a silver lining I guess.
hi, Vipers!
sorry to hear about it! most important thing is that you and your family are ok!
the world is full of crazy people...
Alex.
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Sorry that happened. I just hate to hear about folks getting robbed. Makes me mad! Trouble is, our court system keeps dumping criminals back out on the streets. My suggestion is to kick them out of the US for a couple years. Send them to the middle east to learn how to keep their fingers off other peoples possessions. Grrrrrrrrr.
Other than that, GOOD MORNING! :green:
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Thanks again guys, I've ordered an alarm that I'll be fitting over the weekend, let's hope that keeps the thieving gits away from my property.
More importantly, I've got a day off work tomorrow so I'm planning on running cables around my living room so at long last I'll be able to hear the SP3 in all it's 5.1 glory, I've got my Dark Knight demo BD out ready :)
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Thanks again guys, I've ordered an alarm that I'll be fitting over the weekend, let's hope that keeps the thieving gits away from my property.
More importantly, I've got a day off work tomorrow so I'm planning on running cables around my living room so at long last I'll be able to hear the SP3 in all it's 5.1 glory, I've got my Dark Knight demo BD out ready :)
Excellent news.
Have you got the StarWars box set yet - they will be stella (sic) on the SP3 I am sure
Cheers
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Thanks again guys, I've ordered an alarm that I'll be fitting over the weekend, let's hope that keeps the thieving gits away from my property.
More importantly, I've got a day off work tomorrow so I'm planning on running cables around my living room so at long last I'll be able to hear the SP3 in all it's 5.1 glory, I've got my Dark Knight demo BD out ready :)
A pair of "well trained" dobermans or pitbull canines can also be effective.
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00896/DOGS-380_896019a.jpg)
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Excellent news.
Have you got the StarWars box set yet - they will be stella (sic) on the SP3 I am sure
Cheers
Hey Alpha, yep got the Star Wars box set sitting next to the SP3 in readiness also.
It will be interesting also how I find the PMC DS-001's integrate with my 7B's for centre and rear duties, I take it you are more than happy with your powerpac for the centre?
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A pair of "well trained" dobermans or pitbull canines can also be effective.
Yes, I've been trying to train the cats to bark, but they just don't seem to understand, Meow just doesn't scare anyone does it :roll:
Maybe I should look at getting some bigger cats, if you know what I mean :icon_twisted:
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James,
For those of us using a computer (htpc) with the SP3, would it be best to then use the HDMI output not just for movies (TrueHD, DTSMaster), but also to play our 2 channel music files? Would those files be sent to the SP3 as hi-rez (192/24) via HDMI? Assuming they are encoded that way.
Or is it still recommended to use HDMI for movies, and digital out (spdif, toslink, aes-ebu) to BDA-1 to SP3 for music?
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James,
For those of us using a computer (htpc) with the SP3, would it be best to then use the HDMI output not just for movies (TrueHD, DTSMaster), but also to play our 2 channel music files? Would those files be sent to the SP3 as hi-rez (192/24) via HDMI? Assuming they are encoded that way.
Or is it still recommended to use HDMI for movies, and digital out (spdif, toslink, aes-ebu) to BDA-1 to SP3 for music?
Definitely use the AES/EBU or SPDIF instead of the HDMI. We have found HDMI has some serious issues with jitter - maybe because it is a video transfer mechanism first and foremost?.
james
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Definitely use the AES/EBU or SPDIF instead of the HDMI. We have found HDMI has some serious issues with jitter - maybe because it is a video transfer mechanism first and foremost?.
james
With HDMI the audio is sent as part of the blanking phase in almost every video frame as a data island packet. The audio data just takes a ride at whatever frequency the video is being displayed and the HDMI chip is expected to buffer and regenerate the clock as required. i.e. A typical 1080p 24 Hz blu-ray movie will push about 41 ms of audio per channel every frame. (A decent TV will run at a multiple of 24hz and for multiple channel audio, it's required to repeat frames to get all the audio across).
Because the audio clock is not even associated with the HDMI video frame rate, details on the type of audio is sent along that define the requirements to convert it back into a PCM/DSD streams. If audio jitter is introduce, it would be with the HDMI chipset and it's 'audio clock regeneration' design. If the HDMI chip doesn't have a dedicated oscillator for the audio, it will be a design with high jitter as it's using the HDMI TDMS clock to regenerate the frequency and the jitter becomes a function of the video frame rate and the required audio data rate.
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In Canada and the U.K. homeowners don't have that option open to them.
There is a phrase from the movie Pulp Fiction that I'll very roughly quote. It was said by Vincent Vega (played by John Travolta) in referring to finding his car key scratched. He said, "...it would have been worth it, just to be able to have caught them doing it". Yes, sometimes the thought of revenge seems oh, so sweet, but it really never turns out well. Better to just pick up and go - and enjoy life's pleasures...including SP3's.
Shoot him in the front and put a steak knife in his hand.......
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Hi James,
Could you kindly confirm for me that the SP3 is able to be ordered with 17" black, blue display and blue LEDs please?
Cheers
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Hi James,
Could you kindly confirm for me that the SP3 is able to be ordered with 17" black, blue display and blue LEDs please?
Cheers
CONFIRMED - special order. :thumb:
james
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CONFIRMED - special order. :thumb:
james
I was afraid you would say yes :D
Many thanks
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I was afraid you would say yes :D
Many thanks
I heard the SP3 demo went well last night at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi in the UK?
james
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I heard the SP3 demo went well last night at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi in the UK?
james
Very, here is a snip from David (BTW they were using a 9BSST2 for amplification..)
[snip]
I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the SP3 processor. With Twenty.24's front and rear with a TB2MCi centre (and erm, 'A' sub), the system sounded amazing. The 5m square room is quite reflective, and usually accentuates HF, and with having no solid walls in this building, the bass is usually an issue too. I was really worried as the SP3 has no room EQ, but Craig and Tom from PMC set it up really well, and there really didn't seem to be any need for it! The opening IMAX scene from The Dark Knight was an eye opener - I'd liken the difference to the Blades - put on a track you know (or think you know) on them, and they'll surprise you with how the music should really sound, and the SP3 processor was no different to this. We know the DK scene inside out, but on this system, you were made aware of so much more going on in the soundtrack. Gunfire had the necessary attack and definition - as I've said before, more and more hi-fi speakers are catching up with dedicated AV speakers, and the Twenty series doesn't disappoint. Plus, it goes to show that you don't need mega expensive speakers to have a top notch AV system.
Well done Craig and Tom
[snip]
Cheers
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Hey Alpha, yep got the Star Wars box set sitting next to the SP3 in readiness also.
It will be interesting also how I find the PMC DS-001's integrate with my 7B's for centre and rear duties, I take it you are more than happy with your powerpac for the centre?
Sorry Vipers I meant to answer this the other day; yes VERY pleased with the PowerPac-120, I am glad I did not go for the 300, I do not have a very large room even by UK standards, and even giving the PP-120 a hammering, close to reference levels, it does not even feel slightly warm to the touch, it does not seem to be working very hard driving the PMC CB6i. The tonal match with the 4BSST2 driving the OB1i's is perfect. My daughter had a sleep over the other night and they wanted to watch Disney's Christmas Carol on the big screen. There is a huge amount of the voices moving across the front sound stage, and I have to say it was the first time I REALLY appreciated what people talk about, matching the front three speakers and amps. Now I have the powerpac with the CB6i the transition from OB1i to CB6i to OB1i was completely seemless and believable. The PMC DS-001s do a great job as well, they have clearly been voiced to match the 'Bryston Sound' meaning front to back sound pans are the best I have heard.
I just need to have an SP3 to supply them now :oops:
Cheers
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I just need to have an SP3 to supply them now :oops:
Cheers
Thanks Alpha, you've probably seen this on AVForums but thought I'd post it on here as well, after the experiences I've had with the SP3 today in multi channel you really can't get a SP3 quick enough :wink:
Hi Guys,
Well I don't really know were to start after today, as at long last after a few hours of running cables under carpets, swapping all my system over to XLR and wiring up the Neutrik Speakon to set up the PMC DS-001's I've finally got to hear the SP3 in all it's multi channel glory.
I think it's fair to say that the SP3 is as an impressive performer with multi channel as it is with 2 channel, which in my book makes it a very special indeed.
Over the last few years through my time at TLC and Zinc I've had the privilege to play with a few processors, like the Denon AVP-A1 pre/power, Arcam 777/888, Pioneer Susano, the ADA Suite 7.1 and the Meridian 861v6, and I have to say the SP3 is up there with the very best, in fact, and I don't want to come across all fanboy, but my system has never sounded so good, having the MB2i's upfront with the CB6i centre and FB1i's as rears with the TLE1 sub just sounds phenomenal.
I watched 2 films today, just to test it out of course, Dark Knight, obviously a true reference disc that we've all seen many many times and Daybreakers, what hit me is the amazing clarity of the dialogue and the overall level of detail achieved, it really is something else, that's not to mention the surround steering, it's totally immersive stuff.
I have to say using the DS-001's for centre and surround duties works extremely well, obviously a 9B or a few Powerpacs would be great if money was no object but I'd consider the DS-001's to be a real bargain, they drove the CB6 and FB's effortlessly, and integrated with the 7B's perfectly, they give an extremely clean, uncoloured presentation that fits perfectly well with the SP3.
Finally, in 2 channel today, I did some back to back tests with the new Van Damme XLR's I got compared to my trusty Atlas Navigator RCA's and the difference was quite noticeable, not to the same level as when I tried the Chord Sarums at home, but I don't think that is a bad thing as after a while I got a little fed up with them as they seem to rob my system of any warmth, but with the Van Damme XLR's it really is as if a veil is lifted from the recording, you just seem to get more detail, clarity and insight into the recording. If you are running a Bryston system then these XLR's really are worth a punt as they don't cost the earth and can be a real worthwhile upgrade.
So I guess after changing so much in my system today it is a slight relief that it still sounds fantastic as it is always chance that you could ruin what you had before, but I really can't say enough about the SP3, a real 2 channel and multi channel performer, and that is no easy task.
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Hi James,
Could you provide more explanation on the DRC management of the SP3. It is not described in the manual.
Please explain the following:
-DRC Auto (THD, DTSHD)
-Dyn Range Full Off
-Dyn Range Medium
-Dyn Range Low
-Vol (Low/Medium/High) (Half/Full mode)
Vol Offs +- db (what does Offs mean)
Vol Mid/Side on or off
Thanks a lot
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Hi James,
Could you provide more explanation on the DRC management of the SP3. It is not described in the manual.
Please explain the following:
-DRC Auto (THD, DTSHD)
-Dyn Range Full Off
-Dyn Range Medium
-Dyn Range Low
-Vol (Low/Medium/High) (Half/Full mode)
Vol Offs +- db (what does Offs mean)
Vol Mid/Side on or off
Thanks a lot
Hi
It is a Dolby requirement that just allows adjustments to the dynamic range. We had to include it right at the end to get the DD licencing. It just allows you to change the overall dynamic range so that at night for instance if you want to reduce the dynamics (explosions) so you do not wake the house up it will allow for that. I can get you more details later.
james
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I presume, if I want to hear the "full range" or turn off the DRC, the option that I would choose is "Dyn Range Full Off" right?
Regards,
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I presume, if I want to hear the "full range" or turn off the DRC, the option that I would choose is "Dyn Range Full Off" right?
Regards,
Correct
james
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Hey gents - here are a few unboxing / installation shots of a black rackmount SP3 for anyone that likes pictures. I've yet to sit down and document the detailed differences that I'm hearing between the SP17 and the SP3, and will do that soon - I'm hoping over the holidays things will slow down enough for a critical listen and review.
(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/gravymaker/Bryston%20SP3/Unbox-10.jpg)
To start - I absolutely loved the sonics of my SP17. I found the noise floor so low that the dynamic range in music and movies really shined. If anyone wants to get into high-end 5.1 multichannel, the SP17 is a great piece. I hated to have to list it for sale, but it is time to move on and move up.
The short story on the SP3 is that this experience is even better. The clarity of dialogue from the centre channel, and the range from quiet to explosive dynamics on the mains and rears is incrediblly engaging.
For the very first time, I watched a DTS-HD lossless Bluray track (Green Lantern) and I was incredibly engaged by the clarity and dynamics of the sound. When the audio is quiet, it is truly black. This adds so much to the dynamic range. Too bad it couldn't help with the storyline. *rimshot*
Contrast that against just how easy it is to listen to the SP3 at very high volume (my movie reference volume) that I didn't realize how loud and clear the audio was until I tried to comment on a scene to my wife sitting beside me, and she couldn't hear me. It blows away any theatre experience I've had, bar none. (To be fair, that's probably not very hard to do these days.)
One more word - stunning.
anyway - here are a few more pics.
Device in pictures: 19" Black Rackmount SP3
Beer in pictures: 2011 "Little Scrapper" IPA from Halfpints Brewing in Winnipeg, MB.
www.photobucket.com/sp3 (http://www.photobucket.com/sp3)
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Nice shots. Looks like a nice room as well - you should share some shots of it in action, once you get to it. Cheers. :thumb:
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SP-3 Silver
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54717)
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Rear shot of SP-3
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54716)
Oh my god, they forgot the power inlet on this one... :lol:
Cheers!
Markus
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Oh my god, they forgot the power inlet on this one... :lol:
Cheers!
Markus
It's Battery operated - one of a kind :lol:
james
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54766)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54767)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54766)
:thumb:
And this being the standard AC powered version vs. the former depicted "nuclear-battery" perpetually powered version. The latter being a little less "environmentally friendly".... :lol: :green:
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I heard the SP3 demo went well last night at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi in the UK?
james
It went very well thanks James. I didn't get to hear the system until after most people had left, but I managed to get a listen to the opening IMAX scene of The Dark Knight, as Alpha has already quoted me on, so no need to say any more really :lol:
I daren't take it home!
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It went very well thanks James. I didn't get to hear the system until after most people had left, but I managed to get a listen to the opening IMAX scene of The Dark Knight, as Alpha has already quoted me on, so no need to say any more really :lol:
I daren't take it home!
Hi David, don't see you on this side of the pond very often :D there are quite a few 'names' on here you will recognise..
Have you had any chance to have more of a listen to the SP3 yet?
James, David is one of, if not the most active Bryston dealers in the UK (a bit like with you, I do not know when he sleeps) with an ethos and customer focus, which others should aspire.
Oh, and also he is the reason my kids have no toys for Xmas :oops:
Cheers
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The clarity of dialogue from the centre channel, and the range from quiet to explosive dynamics on the mains and rears is incrediblly engaging.
Hi Gravy,
Thanks for the pics and summary so far, I couldn't agree more with your above comment, it is the overall clarity and dynamics that blows me away every time, I've had my SP3 for a couple of weeks now and the more time I live with it the more I appreciate what a performance powerhouse it really is.
I had some friends over Thursday night, did a couple of quick demo's, Dark Knight, Behind Enemy lines and the opening to Casino Royale, needless to say they all were blown away and agreed it was the best movie sound they had heard, anywhere at anytime, so I think they liked it :)
Personally I used to really be into movies, then I put together my Bryston/PMC 2 channel system and films took a real back seat for the last couple of years as 2 channel really took over, well thanks to the SP3 and the total immersion it brings, films are well and truly back on the agenda, just ordered 30 Blu Rays, got some catching up to do, the trouble is I still love my 2 channel and I actually don't know how I am going to get the time to fit it all in :|
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Hi
It is a Dolby requirement that just allows adjustments to the dynamic range. We had to include it right at the end to get the DD licencing. It just allows you to change the overall dynamic range so that at night for instance if you want to reduce the dynamics (explosions) so you do not wake the house up it will allow for that. I can get you more details later.
james
Please explain the following:
-DRC Auto (THD, DTSHD)
-Dyn Range Full Off
-Dyn Range Medium
-Dyn Range Low
-Vol (Low/Medium/High) (Half/Full mode)
Vol Offs +- db (what does Offs mean)
Vol Mid/Side on or off
James - any further details on this yet? I swear that the volume is fluctuating up and down a bit when I'm watching a particular channel (TSN-Jets on Bell), almost like DRC is kicking in. I currently have this source set the DYN RANGE FULL OFF?
Weird! It could certainly be the source - the production values on this channel are leaving a bit to be desired - I find I have to increase the volume quite a bit on this particular channel.
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James - any further details on this yet? I swear that the volume is fluctuating up and down a bit when I'm watching a particular channel (TSN-Jets on Bell), almost like DRC is kicking in. I currently have this source set the DYN RANGE FULL OFF?
Weird! It could certainly be the source - the production values on this channel are leaving a bit to be desired - I find I have to increase the volume quite a bit on this particular channel.
Hi gravy
If you turn the SP3 off then on it will reset to no DRC so my guess is the source.
james
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OK great! Yeah - it seems like this is the only channel doing this. I think our fans have the sound engineer a bit jumpy on the mic input levels... :)
Thanks for the info JT.
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Silly question, but there is no way to see the volume level except the unit's display, right? I am just wondering about installation in a cabinet and how to know what the volume is. Obviously I can set it by ear, but it helps to see the level for a few things, especially at night.
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Hey Hoostat,
I think you can you use the web interface to control volume? (I'm assuming there's a display on the web interace - I haven't run a new cat6 line to the rack to test this yet.)
In my case, and as an alternative, I use RS232 to display the SP3 volume and signal info on my HTPC screen.
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gravy
I would be keep to know how you have written the RS232 codes to send and recieve commands..
Thanks
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Hey Ritchief,
Send me a PM and I can describe my setup. In my case, I use a couple of pieces of software to achieve this, but I'm not sure its appropriate to list them on the forum as it may seem like advertising! :nono:
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Hey Ritchief,
Send me a PM and I can describe my setup. In my case, I use a couple of pieces of software to achieve this, but I'm not sure its appropriate to list them on the forum as it may seem like advertising! :nono:
I think it would be fine to put in on the forum, or in another thread ("ways of controlling the sp3"). Anything that makes these things easier to use is good for both Bryston and the companies whose products help out. I heard about some stuff from RTI today that might help (perhaps that is what you are using). I would definitely post it.
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Good idea - another thread makes sense to separate it out from this one. I'll get around to posting up a thread over the holidays when I've had a chance to get 2 way comms fully working. Too many darn distractions! :xmas:
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Does the HDMI output on the SP3 strip the audio off and only send video? Or does it just copy the audio off and send both audio and video to the display? The reason I am asking is that I was thinking of running my Denon AVR to control my second zone. I was going to run the HDMI out through the Denon (it has a nice scaler too). That way I could hear the TV/movie in another room in a different zone. There is probably another way of doing this, but I just thought I would ask about this detail.
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Does the HDMI output on the SP3 strip the audio off and only send video? Or does it just copy the audio off and send both audio and video to the display? The reason I am asking is that I was thinking of running my Denon AVR to control my second zone. I was going to run the HDMI out through the Denon (it has a nice scaler too). That way I could hear the TV/movie in another room in a different zone. There is probably another way of doing this, but I just thought I would ask about this detail.
Good question HooStat - I will find out.
james
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Hi James,
Can SP3 decode AAC 5.1 for Japanese customers?
If not, is it possible to upgrade it?
Such as Onyko PR-SC5509
http://www.jp.onkyo.com/audiovisual/avcenter/prsc5509/technology.htm
地上デジタル放送やBS/CSデジタル放送の音声規格に採用され、最大5.1chまで再生可能な規格「AAC」に対応します。
Thanks!
cclinx
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Hi James,
Can SP3 decode AAC 5.1 for Japanese customers?
If not, is it possible to upgrade it?
Such as Onyko PR-SC5509
http://www.jp.onkyo.com/audiovisual/avcenter/prsc5509/technology.htm
地上デジタル放送やBS/CSデジタル放送の音声規格に採用され、最大5.1chまで再生可能な規格「AAC」に対応します。
Thanks!
cclinx
Hi cclinx
Not sure on that - I will check.
james
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One other question out of curiousity. You said you planned for an initial build of 100 units -- have you completed that yet? And how long are the order times in the US (approximately)?
-
One other question out of curiousity. You said you planned for an initial build of 100 units -- have you completed that yet? And how long are the order times in the US (approximately)?
Hi
Yes we are over 100 now and a new order would be about 2-3 weeks.
James
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Having a play with this at the moment.
Does anyone else happen to have this in a 7.1 setup with 2 surround back speakers? If so it would be interesting to test something...
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Having a play with this at the moment.
Does anyone else happen to have this in a 7.1 setup with 2 surround back speakers? If so it would be interesting to test something...
Hi
Yes I do - how can I help.
James
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Having a play with this at the moment.
Does anyone else happen to have this in a 7.1 setup with 2 surround back speakers? If so it would be interesting to test something...
What do you need tested Adprom?
-
Hi
Yes I do - how can I help.
James
2 questions.
On the subwoofer settings, what does in2Bypass do?
Secondly I seem to have found an anomaly for where there are 2 surround back speakers, at least on our unit. Now I spoke to Mike this morning who has passed this along but I was wondering if someone can test it.
I have found that when you run the test tone on the surround back left or surround back right channel, it comes through both the surround back channels. In addition to this, we have an SACD player connected to the 7.1 Bypass inputs. When the Surround back left input gets a signal, the same signal is output on the surround back right channel as well. Vice versa when there is a signal on the surround back left channel as well.
In other words, the processor seems to be treating the 2 surround back channels as one. So a signal through either, is being output through both. I have the latest 92c firmware loaded.
Lastly, the speaker settings and sizes seem to need to be setup separately for each input, rather than globally. Is this intended?
Many thanks,
Adam
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When I say I spoke to Mike this morning, that was Melbourne, Aus time. So it would have been Wednesday afternoon in Canada ;)
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2 questions.
On the subwoofer settings, what does in2Bypass do?
Secondly I seem to have found an anomaly for where there are 2 surround back speakers, at least on our unit. Now I spoke to Mike this morning who has passed this along but I was wondering if someone can test it.
I have found that when you run the test tone on the surround back left or surround back right channel, it comes through both the surround back channels. In addition to this, we have an SACD player connected to the 7.1 Bypass inputs. When the Surround back left input gets a signal, the same signal is output on the surround back right channel as well. Vice versa when there is a signal on the surround back left channel as well.
In other words, the processor seems to be treating the 2 surround back channels as one. So a signal through either, is being output through both. I have the latest 92c firmware loaded.
Lastly, the speaker settings and sizes seem to need to be setup separately for each input, rather than globally. Is this intended?
Many thanks,
Adam
Hi Adam
Yes each input can be set differently for speakers and levels etc.
I assume you have selected 2 speakers for the Back channels?
James
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Hi Adam
Yes each input can be set differently for speakers and levels etc.
I assume you have selected 2 speakers for the Back channels?
James
Yup, set to 2 small. It is quite odd behaviour that I am seeing.
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Yup, set to 2 small. It is quite odd behaviour that I am seeing.
Hi
I just tested mine and it is 92c and no issues.
Send me an email I will send you the software file I am using - jamestanner@bryston.com
James
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Hi
I just tested mine and it is 92c and no issues.
James
Hmmm, then something unusual seems to be happening to cause that to happen. The 7.1 bypass input, is that basically a straight signal path from the input to the output, via a volume control? If so, then it would suggest that somehow the signal path of the 2 surround back channels has been linked somehow - given we get the behaviour on that input as well as the test tone.
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Hmmm, then something unusual seems to be happening to cause that to happen. The 7.1 bypass input, is that basically a straight signal path from the input to the output, via a volume control? If so, then it would suggest that somehow the signal path of the 2 surround back channels has been linked somehow - given we get the behaviour on that input as well as the test tone.
So if you run the internal pink noise the back channels behave OK?
It is just the 7.1 passthrough?
James
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Hi
I just tested mine and it is 92c and no issues.
Send me an email I will send you the software file I am using - jamestanner@bryston.com
James
Done - I've forwarded you the email I also sent Mike.
Cheers,
Adam
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So if you run the internal pink noise the back channels behave OK?
It is just the 7.1 passthrough?
James
No, it all sources it seems. The pink noise did exactly the same thing which made me wonder if there is a potential hardware issue. Also on ProLogicIIx the rear 2 channels seem to produce exactly the same output - although it can be hard to tell depending on the source.
I have also wondered if it could be a DSP issue. I am using firmware 92c which was reflashed twice this morning, as the firmware on it was a quite a few versions older (87).
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No, it all sources it seems. The pink noise did exactly the same thing which made me wonder if there is a potential hardware issue. Also on ProLogicIIx the rear 2 channels seem to produce exactly the same output - although it can be hard to tell depending on the source.
I have also wondered if it could be a DSP issue. I am using firmware 92c which was reflashed twice this morning, as the firmware on it was a quite a few versions older (87).
Ok let me know how the software I sent works.
James
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Ok let me know how the software I sent works.
James
Updated once, no luck - same issue. Giving it another shot to see how it goes.
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Updated once, no luck - same issue. Giving it another shot to see how it goes.
It seems like there is something strange going on - I will discuss with engineering tomorrow for you.
James
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Still no luck. Out of interest, how do you restore the unit to factory defaults? I want to see if that might help
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Still no luck. Out of interest, how do you restore the unit to factory defaults? I want to see if that might help
Not sure on that Adam - have to ask engineering. I just ran my pink noise again and all is well so something is up with that unit. Where did you purchase it?
James
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Not sure on that Adam - have to ask engineering. I just ran my pink noise again and all is well so something is up with that unit. Where did you purchase it?
James
Through the official dealer here in Melbourne. As far as I know, it is the only black SP3 in Aus at the moment.
It was the unit at the hifi show here. We had a chat with Brian about it actually.
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Through the official dealer here in Melbourne. As far as I know, it is the only black SP3 in Aus at the moment.
Ok we will get this sorted out for you
James
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Ok we will get this sorted out for you
James
Thanks James. For the most part I have addressed each of the other queries I made in the couple of emails to you guys. The only outstanding issue really left is the sound duplicated across the surround back channels. Disregarding that, the SP3 does seem to be outstanding.
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Thanks James. For the most part I have addreMssed each of the other queries I made in the couple of emails to you guys. The only outstanding issue really left is the sound duplicated across the surround back channels. Disregarding that, the SP3 does seem to be outstanding.
Thanks Adam - I probably get an email a week now from customers who tell me the more they listen the more our Audio First approach works :thumb:
James
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Thanks Adam - I probably get an email a week now from customers who tell me the more they listen the more our Audio First approach works :thumb:
James
It is interesting you mentioned that. We had a good chat with Brian about that when he was here and it was a large factor in the decision to upgrade from the existing processor which frankly tried to do too much and was a disappointment. Definitely liking the Bryston approach.
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Pick up my SP 3 tomorrow morning. Not a bad Christmas gift to myself :)
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On the subwoofer settings, what does in2Bypass do?
When ON: DSP will extract bass and pass it to Subwoofer output, even though the L and R channels are bypassing the DSP entirely, going straight input to output (through the volume controller). If this option is OFF then subwoofer output would not be active in Bypass 2.
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Pick up my SP 3 tomorrow morning. Not a bad Christmas gift to myself :)
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
james
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Through the official dealer here in Melbourne. As far as I know, it is the only black SP3 in Aus at the moment.
It was the unit at the hifi show here. We had a chat with Brian about it actually.
HI Adam,
We have emailed the Australian Distributor and we think the back channels are shorted some how - we will replace the unit for you.
james
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HI Adam,
We have emailed the Australian Distributor and we think the back channels are shorted some how - we will replace the unit for you.
james
Hi all,
Have a 7.2 setup, tested, no problems with back channels.
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Hi James,
I have arranged a home demo of the SP3 once Christmas is out of the way and I was wondering, are both the HDMI outputs active at the same time? I can see no way of switching them?
Cheers
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Hi James,
I have arranged a home demo of the SP3 once Christmas is out of the way and I was wondering, are both the HDMI outputs active at the same time? I can see no way of switching them?
Cheers
Hi Alpha
Yes they are just in parallel - Hope you like what you hear :thumb:
James
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... I seem to have found an anomaly for where there are 2 surround back speakers, at least on our unit. Now I spoke to Mike this morning who has passed this along but I was wondering if someone can test it.
I have found that when you run the test tone on the surround back left or surround back right channel, it comes through both the surround back channels. In addition to this, we have an SACD player connected to the 7.1 Bypass inputs. When the Surround back left input gets a signal, the same signal is output on the surround back right channel as well. Vice versa when there is a signal on the surround back left channel as well.
In other words, the processor seems to be treating the 2 surround back channels as one. So a signal through either, is being output through both. I have the latest 92c firmware loaded.
Hi,
my first guess would have been that the power amplifier driving the rear speakers might be set to mono... :wink:
Cheers!
Markus
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I have arranged a home demo of the SP3 once Christmas is out of the way and I was wondering, are both the HDMI outputs active at the same time? I can see no way of switching them?
That's certainly a good way to start the new year alpha :thumb:
It's only going to have one conclusion though :wink:
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Hi,
my first guess would have been that the power amplifier driving the rear speakers might be set to mono... :wink:
Cheers!
Markus
Nah, this isn't the case. Amplifier in question is a 7 channel power amp with no bridging capability. Besides, the previous processor was fine with the rear channels ;) I did actually check a heap of cabling just to make sure I wasn't missing something blatantly obvious.
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Bryston SP3
After waiting for a couple of years to replace my Bryston SP 1.7 I finally took delivery on Tuesday December 20th of a Bryston SP3. Thanks to Absolute Audio in Calgary and Jim Spence and James Tanner at Bryston I am able to have some time over the holidays to put it through its paces. I had to leave on vacation so all I have had time to do is spend some time with 2 channel SACD and Vinyl.
A little background:
I have an acoustically treated media room that is 15 X 18 X 9 and with the help of an RTA it measures fairly flat response at the primary seating position except for a 3 db bump at 80 htz. Although this is a 7.1 channel home theater my passion is 2 channel and thus the room is optimized for that.
Power Conditioner: PS Audio Power Plant Premium
Power: Bryston 4B SST and 9B SST
Speakers: Usher Mini Dancer 2 DMD with the DMD Center.
Digital Source: Marantz UD 9004 and Logitech Squeezebox Touch to my iMac music server.
Analogue Source: VPI Scoutmaster with Ortofon Kontrapunkt B and EAR 834P phono.
After letting it "warm" up over night I loaded my favorite SACD, Jen Chapin reVisions. I sat down and the first thing I noticed was how much bigger my room became. I waited for the second song and thought how much better my center channel speaker sounded. In fact it sounded like a different speaker. I then realized I must have set the SP3 to 7.1 channel bypass. I listened to another song before I went to the SP3 to set it a 2 channel. I was shocked to see that it WAS set at 2 channel. I finally achieved that window of sound in my media room. I was very happy with the SP1.7 and compared it to many "reference quality" analogue preamps costing much more money. The SP3 is in a different league. It not only made my room bigger but I noticed I could hear things around instruments and voices that just were not apparent before.
I switched to the VPI for an hour and played one of my go to Allison Krauss albums and then the new Pat Matheny. The sound was equally as impresive. In fact on vinyly the width and depth of my soundstage seamed to open up even more. Overall I have only spent a couple of hours with the SP3 and only in analogue 2 channel. When I am back from holidays I will get into my favorite blu rays and I am sure will be even more impressed.
My first impression is that purely as a 2 channel analogue pre amp the SP3 is well worth the price. I can't wait to hear the DAC and the 7.1 processing.
I am looking forward to next week.
DRC
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Hi Alpha
Yes they are just in parallel - Hope you like what you hear :thumb:
James
Thank you James, I will report back, I am sure I will love it...
Cheers
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That's certainly a good way to start the new year alpha :thumb:
It's only going to have one conclusion though :wink:
Cheers Vipers, I know what the conclusion is going to be as well, it is just the PRICE of the SP3 in the UK that gets to me. I still think I should just get the BP16 and HT bypass with my Marantz processor....
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Cheers Vipers, I know what the conclusion is going to be as well, it is just the PRICE of the SP3 in the UK that gets to me. I still think I should just get the BP16 and HT bypass with my Marantz processor....
Nothing wrong with the BP16 for 2-ch, which I believe you would be pressed to hear a difference against the SP3 but in multi-channel (if that's where your priorities lie) it sounds like it's almost unanimous that the SP3 sets a new standard.
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Nothing wrong with the BP16 for 2-ch, which I believe you would be pressed to hear a difference against the SP3 but in multi-channel (if that's where your priorities lie) it sounds like it's almost unanimous that the SP3 sets a new standard.
Absolutely right, the BP16 is a great pre. Since owning the BDP/BDA pair, 2Ch music has been re-born for me and that is becoming my focus. I do not really listen to multi-channel music but the room and the kit has to double up as my cinema room. I presently have a Marantz pre/pro which for films is pretty good. So, I am sure the SP3 will be much better for 2Ch than the Marantz, but I want to hear at home how it is with blu-ray. I would much rather have a one box solution in the front room, BUT the BP16 integrated with the Marantz would be miles cheaper at UK prices!
Cheers
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Nothing wrong with the BP16 for 2-ch, which I believe you would be pressed to hear a difference against the SP3 but in multi-channel (if that's where your priorities lie) it sounds like it's almost unanimous that the SP3 sets a new standard.
I can confirm that at a minimum the SP3 is at least equal to the BP16. IMO though, it actually exceeds it. The SP3 actually replaced a BP16 and surround processer (Arcam AV888) that was there previously.
The analogue audio performance is unlike anything I have seen in a device supporting surround sound before. This has also flowed through to the surround performance which is something special.
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but in multi-channel (if that's where your priorities lie) it sounds like it's almost unanimous that the SP3 sets a new standard.
As far as I'm cncerned SoundGame, you've hit the nail on the head with that sentence, I've listened to numerous processors over the last few years and nothing, I mean nothing has come close to the SP3 for multi channel in my opinion, it's difficult to explain, but once you've heard the SP3 it all makes sense, beware alpha :wink:
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I've got to say that anyone who has got an SP3 or is going to be demoing one or trying a home demo, hi alpha, then you must watch Super 8, watched it last night and there are a couple of scenes that visually are pretty spectacular but on the audio side they are totally amazing.
I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I have never heard home cinema, or cinema for that matter, sound this good, talk about being pinned to the sofa, it really does show off the SP3 to the max and what an awesome performer it really is, I think I've found a new demo disc, plus it's a pretty good film also, but it looks like they've spent a lot of time getting the soundtrack spot on, highly recommended :thumb:
I'm really back into my movies, thanks to the SP3, anyone got any other 'blow your socks of' soundtracks they can recommend?
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James,
Any chance that we'll see a new external DAC utilizing some of the new audio capabilities of the SP3? For example, I'm thinking of the ability to input an audio signal via HDMI and the ability to internally decode a DSD signal to PCM (DSD straight to analog would be even better). These would make great features for a BDA-2 and would save a ton of money for us folks who are interested in the audio capabilities of the SP3 but don't need the video processing.
Thanks!
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James,
Any chance that we'll see a new external DAC utilizing some of the new audio capabilities of the SP3? For example, I'm thinking of the ability to input an audio signal via HDMI and the ability to internally decode a DSD signal to PCM (DSD straight to analog would be even better). These would make great features for a BDA-2 and would save a ton of money for us folks who are interested in the audio capabilities of the SP3 but don't need the video processing.
Thanks!
Hi MellowVelo,
Not looking at that for now but something to consider going forward. :thumb:
james
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"audio capabilities of the SP3 but don't need the video processing"...
********
IIRC, the SP3 is audio processing only, with video pass through switching. No video processing.
Steve
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James and Steve,
Thanks for your responses. I didn't realize that the SP3 was simply video passthrough, but what I had in mind would still be different than the SP3. Basically I was thinking of a two-channel version of the SP3. You could still have the HDMI inputs and outputs (with video passthrough) but you wouldn't have to offer decoding for home theater codecs, like the Dolby and DTS 7.1 codecs, because this DAC would be strictly two-channel stereo.
A similar, but not identical, product has just been released by NAD. It has the HDMI inputs for receiving a stereo PCM signal, and it passes the video signal without any processing.
http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M51-Direct-Digital-DAC
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James and Steve,
Thanks for your responses. I didn't realize that the SP3 was simply video passthrough, but what I had in mind would still be different than the SP3. Basically I was thinking of a two-channel version of the SP3. You could still have the HDMI inputs and outputs (with video passthrough) but you wouldn't have to offer decoding for home theater codecs, like the Dolby and DTS 7.1 codecs, because this DAC would be strictly two-channel stereo.
A similar, but not identical, product has just been released by NAD. It has the HDMI inputs for receiving a stereo PCM signal, and it passes the video signal without any processing.
http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M51-Direct-Digital-DAC
The problem with HDMI is it was first a Video connection and then added Audio almost as an afterthought. The HDMI seems to have a lot more inherent jitter than AES/EBU or BNC or COAX.
james
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The problem with HDMI is it was first a Video connection and then added Audio almost as an afterthought. The HDMI seems to have a lot more inherent jitter than AES/EBU or BNC or COAX.
james
Doesn't the BDA-1 resample and reclock the incoming digital signal? So I would imagine that the inherent jitter of HDMI could be overcome.
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Doesn't the BDA-1 resample and reclock the incoming digital signal? So I would imagine that the inherent jitter of HDMI could be overcome.
Yes the BDP-1 does re-sample and re-clock- but you can not get rid of incoming jitter - regardless of what some tell you :duh:
james
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Yes the BDP-1 does re-sample and re-clock- but you can not get rid of incoming jitter - regardless of what some tell you :duh:
james
Thanks, James. This is really enlightening. What is the purpose then of re-sampling and re-clocking if it doesn't reduce incoming jitter? Does it just eliminate further jitter from being introduced into the signal?
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Thanks, James. This is really enlightening. What is the purpose then of re-sampling and re-clocking if it doesn't reduce incoming jitter? Does it just eliminate further jitter from being introduced into the signal?
Hi,
Because you do not know what signal is coming in your have to re-clock and re-sample so you can deal with it in the way you wish.
james
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Hi,
Because you do not know what signal is coming in your have to re-clock and re-sample so you can deal with it in the way you wish.
james
James,
Is this not where asynchronous DACs come into play? Taking control of the master clock.
Kyri
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Yes the BDP-1 does re-sample and re-clock- but you can not get rid of incoming jitter - regardless of what some tell you :duh:
james
Isn't that the entire point of reclocking the signal though? Unless the jitter exceeds the bounds of the input buffer and specifications it was built for, surely the input jitter is eliminated? Unless of course it is so bad, that the buffer can't figure out which sample it is part of and gets buffered in the wrong sample...
If not, I'd be interested in hearing the issues with jitter once it has been buffered...
Cheers,
Adam
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James,
Can you describe circuitry around the HDMI and the audio clock regeneration solution.
Jim
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James,
Can you describe circuitry around the HDMI and the audio clock regeneration solution.
Jim
Hi Jim
That one is over my pay grade so I will have to ask engineering.
James
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I've got to say that anyone who has got an SP3 or is going to be demoing one or trying a home demo, hi alpha, then you must watch Super 8, watched it last night and there are a couple of scenes that visually are pretty spectacular but on the audio side they are totally amazing.
I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I have never heard home cinema, or cinema for that matter, sound this good, talk about being pinned to the sofa, it really does show off the SP3 to the max and what an awesome performer it really is, I think I've found a new demo disc, plus it's a pretty good film also, but it looks like they've spent a lot of time getting the soundtrack spot on, highly recommended :thumb:
I'm really back into my movies, thanks to the SP3, anyone got any other 'blow your socks of' soundtracks they can recommend?
Thanks for the tip. Picked up Super 8 last night and totally agree, with the SP3 it sounds amazing!
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>>I'm really back into my movies, thanks to the SP3, anyone got any other 'blow your socks of' soundtracks they can recommend?<<
Here are movies that I have in my collection with good soundtracks.
Die Hard- Five Star series, 1,2 and 3
James Bond- Special Edition, Golden Eye, Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day, World is Not Enough
Rambo- Special Edition, 1,2,4
Star Wars Trilogy
Tora Tora Tora- Special Edition
Collateral- with Tom Cruise
Gladiator- Special Edition
Predator- Special Edition
U-Boat 571- Best Sound Edition
I use the soundfield Dolby PLII Movie & THX on the SP2
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Mag - I have not played it yet through the SP3 but Saving Private Ryan opening scene must be added to you list
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hi, all!
by reading the new website under the SP3's features i can read the following:
- DTS Master HD Audio, Dolby Volume
now what is "Dolby Volume"? :scratch:
thanks,
al.
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hi, all!
by reading the new website under the SP3's features i can read the following:
- DTS Master HD Audio, Dolby Volume
now what is "Dolby Volume"? :scratch:
thanks,
al.
Hi al
Dolby volume is similar to the dynamic range control on the SP2. It allows you to reduce headroom so if you are listening at night the explosions and such are reduced in level but the mids stay intact thereby still making voice range intelligible at low levels.
James
PS - you must set it and it disengages once you turn the SP3 off.
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ok, James. thank you :thumb:
al.
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Just had a quick look and cannot find the SP3 in the Logitech Harmony database, has anyone sent off the codes yet, or had them added?
Cheers
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Hi Folks,
My production manager just informed me today we have sold 160 - SP3's - so far so good :thumb:
james
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Yes the BDP-1 does re-sample and re-clock- but you can not get rid of incoming jitter - regardless of what some tell you :duh:
james
James, why can't a input buffer get rid of the jitter? We do this all the time with are telecom equipment.
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James, why can't a input buffer get rid of the jitter? We do this all the time with are telecom equipment.
Hi Steve,
Not sure I have the answer :scratch: I have just been told by the engineering types that jitter in = jitter out - you can not reduce incoming jitter. And HDMI has much more jitter than other types of connections.
James
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James, why can't a input buffer get rid of the jitter? We do this all the time with are telecom equipment.
Hi Steve,
I got a further clarification on this so the better way to express it is you can 'attenuate' jitter coming in but you can not 'eliminate' it. So the more jitter you have coming in the more you have coming out the other end after attenuation. That's why less jitter in still matters.
james
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Hi Steve,
I got a further clarification on this so the better way to express it is you can 'attenuate' jitter coming in but you can not 'eliminate' it. So the more jitter you have coming in the more you have coming out the other end after attenuation. That's why less jitter in still matters.
james
Hi James, (it's Scott actually not Steve...if I a had a nickel for every time I was called Steve :wink: )
I still don't understand why you could not eliminate jitter, from a incoming signal with a properly sized buffer. The data stream is buffered and only when the buffer is X % filled do you play out the buffer and re-clock. Now I understand how new jitter could be introduced as signal is passed through the circuitry of the DAC etc. but once the data is buffered , the incoming jitter is essentially eliminated . Proper buffer size is important to avoid buffer under-runs and over-runs however.
With all that being said, I will add this to the already huge list of things I don't understand . :scratch:
Steve....ugh I mean Scott
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SORRY Scott :duh: :duh: :duh:
james
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This has probably been explained before but what are the SP3's sub-woofer/base management options in 2ch bypass mode. In the menu tree, Sub on/off, in2Bypass and XTRABASS are the options; how are the latter two used in bypass mode?
Steve
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This has probably been explained before but what are the SP3's sub-woofer/base management options in 2ch bypass mode. In the menu tree, Sub on/off, in2Bypass and XTRABASS are the options; how are the latter two used in bypass mode?
Steve
Hi Steve,
The sub can be engaged in 2 channel Analog bypass but it is just augmenting the fullrange sound from the Stereo Mains. We added it in case customers had small speakers and still wanted to use the subwoofer when listening in bypass mode.
The Extra Bass is just that - if the mains are playing full range and the input is muti channel normally the SUB is just an EFFECTS channel - so it only operates when there is an effect added in the soundtrack. Extra Bass allows you to have the Sub operating in conjunction with the mains and extra bass is added to the sub even though there is no effects in the soundtrack.
These are just tweaks you can use but in most setups you will probably prefer to leave them off.
james
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Thanks for the reply...so if I wanted to "manage"/ extend base below the capability of the mains, would a 10B be needed in order to do it 'right"?
Steve
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Thanks for the reply...so if I wanted to "manage"/ extend base below the capability of the mains, would a 10B be needed in order to do it 'right"?
Steve
Hi Steve -depends on what you mean by 'manage' - the advantage of the 10B is you can selected slopes and crossover points independently per channel whereas in a process you have to use whatever bass management gives you for slopes and crossover points. The SP3 is very flexible with the choice of crossover points but the slopes are set.
james
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"The SP3 is very flexible with the choice of crossover points .."
********
I am probably going way out into the weeds (or counting angles on the head of a pin) but....are the crossover points selectable in 2ch analog? For example, if my BDP-1/BDA-1 is sending a <40 hz signal to the SP3 in 2ch bypass, can I direct the <40 hz to my 18" Velodynes and the remainder of the spectrum to the 802s?
Steve
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"The SP3 is very flexible with the choice of crossover points .."
********
I am probably going way out into the weeds (or counting angles on the head of a pin) but....are the crossover points selectable in 2ch analog? For example, if my BDP-1/BDA-1 is sending a <40 hz signal to the SP3 in 2ch bypass, can I direct the <40 hz to my 18" Velodynes and the remainder of the spectrum to the 802s?
Steve
Hi Steve
No in Analog you are not going through any digital circuitry so it is always a full range analog signal. With the bass option you are simply using the bass crossover in the digital circuit to add bass. The only way you can control the Sat and Sub at the 40hz is to use the digital crossover in Digital Stereo.
James
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Thanks...
Steve
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Hi James, (it's Scott actually not Steve...if I a had a nickel for every time I was called Steve :wink: )
I still don't understand why you could not eliminate jitter, from a incoming signal with a properly sized buffer. The data stream is buffered and only when the buffer is X % filled do you play out the buffer and re-clock. Now I understand how new jitter could be introduced as signal is passed through the circuitry of the DAC etc. but once the data is buffered , the incoming jitter is essentially eliminated . Proper buffer size is important to avoid buffer under-runs and over-runs however.
With all that being said, I will add this to the already huge list of things I don't understand . :scratch:
Steve....ugh I mean Scott
I agree with this actually. The weird thing is that everyone thinks a-sync USB is the norm (which basically means just that, you buffer the incoming information from the USB and when it is all complete you clock it and send it out as jitter free as possible), but a-syncing other signals apparently is too bizarre for words.
I think it would be quite a (SA)CD player that reads its disk, sends the info to a buffer, make sure everything is correct, and only then sends its data on its way to where ever it needs to go. Why should the laser be directly connected to the DAC? Does not make sense to me. It's like having to hold a 50 minute speach without ANY error without ANY preparation whatsoever...
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Hi Steve,
I got a further clarification on this so the better way to express it is you can 'attenuate' jitter coming in but you can not 'eliminate' it. So the more jitter you have coming in the more you have coming out the other end after attenuation. That's why less jitter in still matters.
james
James, the word attenuate implies that buffering is an analogue process... i.e. it is removed by x% or x db. However buffering is a purely discrete process. If the jitter of the input signal exceeds the jitter tolerance of the buffer then in theory some jitter would remain - however a modern dac is very tolerant of this. It would be amazingly rare that the jitter would exceed this tolerance unless the source was faulty (and jitter on any decent device is usually in sub nanosecond range).
The only reason I point this out James (understanding that you are the messenger here) is because it seems to directly contradict current graduate level electrical engineering theory.... In a phase locked loop, which is then buffered, the jitter will only be an issue if a sample is offset from its time position so much that it is attributed to a different time slot, or is treated as 2 samples.
Of course, if I was the suspicious type, I could suggest the audio industry wouldn't want to admit this due to the implications it would have for the market of transports... Which is understandable as most modern streaming devices (logitech squeezebox for example - measured at 50ps) by nature, have extremely low jitter since they have a far more stable source.
If possible, could you please ask the engineers what they mean by 'attenuating jitter' as part of the digital buffering process?
P.S. I found another good conceptual resource on multi stage jitter reduction at http://www.anedio.com/index.php/article/multi_stage_jitter_reduction - essentially what it says at the end, by using a proper buffer the only jitter after the buffering, is the jitter inherent, or introduced by the clock in the DAC itself. i.e. in a nutshell Stage 1: Filter out unwanted noise to make sampling easier. Stage 2: Sample that filtered signal Stage Stage 3: From that buffer, reproduce the signal aligned to the new clock (retimed). The remaining jitter should purely revolve around the DAC clock and the jitter in the output buffer - independent of the input buffer.
At stage 2, it either got the samples right or it didn't... After that, any jitter present is what is created by the DAC. If it got the sampling wrong at stage 2, then one of the samples will be offset by one, or completely duplicated (in theory the other case is that it could have been entirely missed). Now implementations of a DAC will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but there is only so many ways you can buffer an output and the basics from above will remain.
Back to the original question, my understanding is that the jitter with HDMI is so high and so variable that it can be nearly impossible to design DACs tolerant enough to handle it well. Not that it can't be done, but doing so requires significantly more R+D
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Hi Steve
No in Analog you are not going through any digital circuitry so it is always a full range analog signal. With the bass option you are simply using the bass crossover in the digital circuit to add bass. The only way you can control the Sat and Sub at the 40hz is to use the digital crossover in Digital Stereo.
James
Thanks for that bit of information... We were wondering about this the other day. I guessed the the L+R were untouched in bypass regardless of the sub. The guess was that the L+R signal in this mode was passed to the digital crossover to reproduce the sub - I wouldn't have thought the SP3 would have any analogue crossovers at all, would it? The analogue side of the SP3 from how it was described is that it virtually a couple of BP26s (or at least exactly the same technology) for the analogue stages and the 2/6 channel bypass modes. When the digital circuitry is activated, their outputs feed the analogue circuitry to produce the output. Essentially keeping the digital circuitry entirely separate. Is this correct?
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"Essentially keeping the digital circuitry entirely separate. Is this correct?.."
********
That is my understanding after reading James' answer. I guess if I want to have a "pure" analog with bass management, it would involve a 10B Sub crossover. I am not sure with that set up driving 802s and Velodynes analog, how I would switch the subs for use in multi-channel digital
Steve
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Hi Guys,
This is great info - I am in Vegas but I will try and get some answers for you when I get back.
Yes as far as I have been told that HDMI sends the Video in packets and behind each packet they stick some audio - so at the other end the long distances between the video packets creates some serious audio jitter in comparison to a constant digital bitstream like in SPDIF?
james
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That is my understanding after reading James' answer. I guess if I want to have a "pure" analog with bass management, it would involve a 10B Sub crossover. I am not sure with that set up driving 802s and Velodynes analog, how I would switch the subs for use in multi-channel digital
TBH I probably wouldn't even bother - if you want a sub for analogue the digital crossover is likely to be entirely fine. Unless you specifically want to use the velodyne internal crossover. A sub is an added feature to 2 channel anyway, so it isn't like you are messing up with the signal path applying a digital crossover.
-
P.S. I found another good conceptual resource on multi stage jitter reduction at http://www.anedio.com/index.php/article/multi_stage_jitter_reduction - essentially what it says at the end, by using a proper buffer the only jitter after the buffering, is the jitter inherent, or introduced by the clock in the DAC itself. i.e. in a nutshell Stage 1: Filter out unwanted noise to make sampling easier. Stage 2: Sample that filtered signal Stage Stage 3: From that buffer, reproduce the signal aligned to the new clock (retimed). The remaining jitter should purely revolve around the DAC clock and the jitter in the output buffer - independent of the input buffer.
At stage 2, it either got the samples right or it didn't... After that, any jitter present is what is created by the DAC. If it got the sampling wrong at stage 2, then one of the samples will be offset by one, or completely duplicated (in theory the other case is that it could have been entirely missed). Now implementations of a DAC will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but there is only so many ways you can buffer an output and the basics from above will remain.
Back to the original question, my understanding is that the jitter with HDMI is so high and so variable that it can be nearly impossible to design DACs tolerant enough to handle it well. Not that it can't be done, but doing so requires significantly more R+D
There is one bit on this I neglected where the input jitter could logically affect the signal whenever it is buffered... This is when you upsample at the input. So for example, if you upsample 44.1KHz to 176.4 you are taking 4 samples for every cycle of the input clock. So here the jitter could for example affect which upsampled bit registers... i.e. say you have a 101 sequence. Ideally if upsampling that way, it should be 1111 0000 1111. But jitter could mean that it gets read as 1111 1000 1111 where the jitter affects the 5th sample... I wonder if that is really an argument against upsampling...
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Hi James,
Could you provide more explanation on the DRC management of the SP3. It is not described in the manual.
Please explain the following:
-DRC Auto (THD, DTSHD)
-Dyn Range Full Off
-Dyn Range Medium
-Dyn Range Low
-Vol (Low/Medium/High) (Half/Full mode)
Vol Offs +- db (what does Offs mean)
Vol Mid/Side on or off
Thanks a lot
Hi where in the menu tree are you seeing these options? I could not find them.
Cheers
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"read as 1111 1000 1111 where the jitter affects the 5th sample... I wonder if that is really an argument against upsampling..."
*********
I usually play back at native resolution but I have used the upsampling on the BDA-1. On occasion, when upsampling, I will hear a short sections of music that is just "wrong"; it isn't subtle. I have never heard a similar effect with the upsampling turned off.
Steve
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Just a quick update and hopefully useful info:
I managed to programme my Harmony remote with all the BR3 codes lastnight (based on an SP2 in the database and then re-learnt the commands) and that ran fine. SO, I then tried my Harmony RF extender, plugged in a 3.5mm cable I had in a draw and hey presto works a treat with the SP3, brilliant news now the SP3 runs great behind my projector screen.
:thumb:
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Since few people have had a chance to hear the SP3 I have a few questions I am hoping I can get some educated guesses on and perhaps a response from somebody that has experienced the unit:
Currently own an NAD M15 HD...what kind of increased performance can I expect in 2 channel audio from the SP3?
(I am a 75% 2 channel guy)
Video performance?
Comment:NAD seems to introduce to market units that have overlapping performance features which not only confuse buyers with too many options and price points but also do not help a reseller when you reach the stage in the ownership lifecycle I am at with a very well kept pre/pro (granted these things seem to lose value fairly fast and i assume its due to the nature of innovation in video). NAD M15 always sounded slightly harsh in every format but vinyl
System: 2 Bryston 6B SST's
B&W 803S Nautilus fronts and B&W HTM2 center and B&W CM5 rears
Pioneer Elite DP9J CD player
mac mini dedicated server with Peachtree DAC IT (one of the few disappointed in W4S DAC2)
Rega P3 TT with Rotel phono stage
(**my listening room sucks)
thank you.
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New SP3 ADVERT:
http://www.bryston.com/PDF/brochures/SP3_BROCHURE_ADVERT.pdf
james
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Nice comments regarding SP-3
http://www.itrax.com/Community/showthread.php?166-CES-2012-Presenting-in-the-Thiel-Bryston-Room
James
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New SP3 ADVERT:
http://www.bryston.com/PDF/brochures/SP3_BROCHURE_ADVERT.pdf (http://www.bryston.com/PDF/brochures/SP3_BROCHURE_ADVERT.pdf)
james
Hi James - this is a sharp looking ad. One suggestion is that you change the wording to be more accurate, as follows (re: 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence):
With today’s increased clarity and dynamic range in recordings
and non–compressed movie sound-tracks (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD
Master Audio, etc.),
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Query on 7Bsst2 Gain Settings with the SP3
Extract of 7Bsst2 manual
"4. Input Sensitivity (Gain) Switch.
The optimum gain setting will depend upon the source pre-amp operating level, and or personal preference.
The 1v setting is used when the source is single-ended, or from a transformer coupled balanced source.
This is the home theatre setting for single ended or un-balanced operation.
The 1v setting provides the most amplifier gain - 29 dB. (1v in = 100w @ 8 ohms.) (noise -110 dB)
The 2v setting is used when the sources output is actively Balanced.
This is the home theatre setting for balanced operation Or use this setting with any systems where
the volume control rotation is limited to the bottom half of the control or less.
The 2v setting provides an amplifier gain - 23 dB. ( 2v in = 100w @ 8 ohms.) ( noise -113 dB )"
This may seem like an odd question, but I was wondering which setting you would recommend with the SP3 connected to the 7Bsst2 and PMC MB2i speakers. I have both XLR Starquad and RCA Anthems 2 connected.
I have switched between 1v and 2v with both XLR and RCA, but to me the only difference is the volume either increases or decreases.
Technically speaking, which setting would be best given my system.
In terms of listening volume, my usual range is between -40 > -25 for 2ch, and -30 > -15 for films.
Thanks.
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Hi James - this is a sharp looking ad. One suggestion is that you change the wording to be more accurate, as follows (re: 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence):
With today’s increased clarity and dynamic range in recordings
and non–compressed movie sound-tracks (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD
Master Audio, etc.),
Yes we caught that - thanks :thumb:
James
-
Query on 7Bsst2 Gain Settings with the SP3
Extract of 7Bsst2 manual
"4. Input Sensitivity (Gain) Switch.
The optimum gain setting will depend upon the source pre-amp operating level, and or personal preference.
The 1v setting is used when the source is single-ended, or from a transformer coupled balanced source.
This is the home theatre setting for single ended or un-balanced operation.
The 1v setting provides the most amplifier gain - 29 dB. (1v in = 100w @ 8 ohms.) (noise -110 dB)
The 2v setting is used when the sources output is actively Balanced.
This is the home theatre setting for balanced operation Or use this setting with any systems where
the volume control rotation is limited to the bottom half of the control or less.
The 2v setting provides an amplifier gain - 23 dB. ( 2v in = 100w @ 8 ohms.) ( noise -113 dB )"
This may seem like an odd question, but I was wondering which setting you would recommend with the SP3 connected to the 7Bsst2 and PMC MB2i speakers. I have both XLR Starquad and RCA Anthems 2 connected.
I have switched between 1v and 2v with both XLR and RCA, but to me the only difference is the volume either increases or decreases.
Technically speaking, which setting would be best given my system.
In terms of listening volume, my usual range is between -40 > -25 for 2ch, and -30 > -15 for films.
Thanks.
Hi Ritchief
It really depends on the sensitivity of you speakers more that anything. You generally get a slightly better noise floor with the higher voltage settings but it makes the volume control less sensitive. I find with my Magnepan theater setup at home I generally run the SP3 volume control around -25 for normal general listening and -15 to -20 for movie watching. The Magnepans have low sensitivity so I generally use the 1 volt setting for the extra gain.
james
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From: Marc
Sent: January-27-12 2:47 AM
To: James Tanner; Melissa Myles
Subject: Thank You!
Hi James & Melissa,
Thank you very much for taking care of me with the SP3 & 6B amplifier. It is the most significant electronics upgrade I have experienced, and thought you might be interested in hearing about it.
The quality of sound that I normally only experience in (treated) demo rooms is now in my (far from acoustically ideal, untreated) living room.
At first, I resisted the temptation to install both pieces and instead just replaced my Classe' 400 with the 6B. I was amazed at the increase in detail, soundstage, and clarity. I listened to it for a few hours being driven by multiple sources through my Krell HTS. Fantastic.
Last night I replaced the Krell HTS with the SP3, I was amazed even more. I listened to many familiar pieces and do not understand how you could have extracted so much detail from a Redbook CD bitstream.
I heard an immense amount of detail that I did not know existed on CDs and DVDs that I have owned for years. It sounded like the band or orchestra was in front of me and I'm thrilled with the increased amount of presence, almost seeing where the musicians are playing.
I think back to our conversation James when I asked you how these pieces of equipment might compare, and I admire your modesty and how you focused the discussion on features instead. My Thiel CS 3.7's are singing better than I thought they could - and - the break-in period has just started!
My thanks, admiration, and respect.
Best,
Marc
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Hi Guys,
This is great info - I am in Vegas but I will try and get some answers for you when I get back.
Yes as far as I have been told that HDMI sends the Video in packets and behind each packet they stick some audio - so at the other end the long distances between the video packets creates some serious audio jitter in comparison to a constant digital bitstream like in SPDIF?
james
I understand jitter over HDMI for an LPCM signal but if you send DD or DTS over HDMI the processor has to decode it and generate a new bitstream for the DAC. Does this process not clock the data to the internal clock of the SP3, eliminating the jitter introduced by the HDMI data transfer?
Jeff
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From: Gerry Emberson
Sent: January-29-12 6:34 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: SP3
Well Well James,
You have a winner in the SP3!
I picked it up this weekend and hooked it up today I LOVE the sound!
Thank you and all the Bryston Staff for such a great product!
Gerry
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I understand jitter over HDMI for an LPCM signal but if you send DD or DTS over HDMI the processor has to decode it and generate a new bitstream for the DAC. Does this process not clock the data to the internal clock of the SP3, eliminating the jitter introduced by the HDMI data transfer?
Jeff
Like lpcm, dd and dts experiences the same issue with clock recovery issues and unless it's truly re-clocked (and it sounds like the SP3 doesn't do that) the digital audio will introduce jitter based on the video frame type. So changing the audio type will change the requirement on how much data to be sent and that will most likely cause a different frame format to be used and would change the frequency at which the video is sent. This frequency is what is used for the bulk of the hdmi devices out there for the audio clock recovery, this is the first place where jitter is introduced (not the hdmi cable :)). The bulk of the HDMI solutions have this same issue, but the solution is to design your own clock recovery logic.
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Kal Rubinson has a review of the SP3 coming out in May; might force me to buy Stereophile again after a 20+ year moratorium. (I got tired of reading endless variations of the audio equivalent of the "Emperor's New Clothes" :>)
Steve
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers January 2012
SUBJECT: BRYSTON SP3 Customer Feedback
From: Bill
Sent: January-31-12 3:58 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: RE: SP3
Hi James
This SP-3 thing sounds so good it’s still amazing to me, even after all this time.
I have used it with two different sets of power amps, and I find that it is making my system MUCH more enjoyable sonically than ever before. For a PrePro to do this is more than amazing. I have replaced a highly regarded tube preamp (it sold immediately, lots of demand) and the SP3 sounds way better than it did. And for it to sound so good via HDMI is quite a feat also. I no longer need all those analog cables going from my universal player to the prepro, as I just use HDMI and it sounds better than ever, even on SACD despite that you are committing the reported mortal sin of converting that to PCM prior to conversion to analog. My SACD’s have never sounded better.
So, this thing is a world beater. I have tried every other pre/pro they have, and some they don’t, and the SP3 is just way better than anything else out there.
Been waiting for 15 years for someone to get this right.
Thanks,
Bill - Microsoft Corporation
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Thanks,
Bill - Microsoft Corporation
James, that wouldn't be Bill Gates would it by any chance :o
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James, that wouldn't be Bill Gates would it by any chance :o
Jesus! That's what I was thinking. That fella doesn't deserve an SP3!
Kyri
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With over 90,000 employees worldwide and 55,000 of those in the U.S., what are the chances of there being more than one "Bill"?
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Hi James,
I got my new BCD-1 yesterday, you can't beat un boxing a new piece of Bryston kit :)
I'm at work at the moment, but I was just wondering can you program the BR2 to control the volume on the SP3 as I could with my BP26, just curious really.
Thanks,
-
Hi James,
I got my new BCD-1 yesterday, you can't beat un boxing a new piece of Bryston kit :)
I'm at work at the moment, but I was just wondering can you program the BR2 to control the volume on the SP3 as I could with my BP26, just curious really.
Thanks,
Yes - it is the same code as the SP2 volume control.
james
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Yes - it is the same code as the SP2 volume control.
james
Thanks James, I've just managed to beat the snow home so I'll have a play tonight.
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Hi Folks,
Got this today from Joey regarding Harry Pearson of Absolute Sound Magazine fame using the Bryston SP3 Processor in his system.
james
From: Joey
Sent: February-12-12 1:54 PM
To: jamestanner@bryston.ca
Subject: Re: SP3
James,
I showed Harry how to use the SP-3 yesterday in his room 1 and he was immediately enchanted by the sound.
We ended up watching an entire movie (even though HP had begun the day saying that he just wanted to know how it worked and wanted to rest) and marveling at the clarity of dialog.
Hope all is well.
Best,
Joey
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Is anyone with an SP3 using it to do the bass management to integrate a sub (or 2) for 2 channel listening ? If so what are the results?
Jeff
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http://www.unilet.net/bryston-sp3-surround-processor-finally-on-demonstration-at-unilet-sound-and-vision-first-review.html
Interesting comparison from across the pond.
james
-
http://www.unilet.net/bryston-sp3-surround-processor-finally-on-demonstration-at-unilet-sound-and-vision-first-review.html
Interesting comparison from across the pond.
james
Very interesting article and perspective. I believe in the purest sense it would read that the SP3 is the better, more purist audiophile pre/pro; however, the Anthem D2v is no slouch, slighly drier but has got all the goodies of which a formidable room correction software tops the list.
Is room correction something that Bryston has ever considered developing, even if a stand-along add on feature to the SP3?
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Very interesting article and perspective. I believe in the purest sense it would read that the SP3 is the better, more purist audiophile pre/pro; however, the Anthem D2v is no slouch, slighly drier but has got all the goodies of which a formidable room correction software tops the list.
Is room correction something that Bryston has ever considered developing, even if a stand-along add on feature to the SP3?
No - we will not use it - it is the wrong thing to do - you are changing the on axis response of the speaker for a specific location in the room and the total sound power response into the room goes to crap :duh:
james
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No - we will not use it - it is the wrong thing to do - you are changing the on axis response of the speaker for a specific location in the room and the total sound power response into the room goes to crap :duh:
james
Hi James, I appreciate your candid comments on the room correction software. I personally believe that room setup and treatment is the best way to handle it and room correction is the quick and dirty alternative, which seems to meet the masses needs.
What I would argue is that room analysis software would be helpful. This would allow you to detect issues in the room on a measured grid of specific points, which you would then need to address by a combination of speaker placement and room treatments. More of a diagnosis software to help take best steps on your room. For those of us with experience and knowledge, this room analysis perhaps is done by ear and proven methods but that might be a discussion for another thread i.e. room setup/speaker placement etc.
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I'm on the fence on this issue. With my Sp2 I'm getting better sound than what I was getting with my market brand AV/receiver that has auto calibration.
However because I already had speaker placement, distance and time delays, balance set by AV/receiver. I knew the parameter settings for the SP2, which sounds excellent to my ears without additional tweaking. 8)
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I did see that IMAX adopted Audyssey in at least 7 theatres which is growing. I'm also aware that the pro-versions of these room correction applications can accomodate up to 32 different seating positions, so it's less of a perfect seat (though that may be the case) and more of a larger sweet spot, as it were.
Room correction is not something that has ever taken traction for stereo setups..you only tend to see it in connection with multi-channel - if that says anything.
-
James,
has the SP3 more than one TIDA710 chip implemented?
thanks,
al.
-
No - we will not use it - it is the wrong thing to do - you are changing the on axis response of the speaker for a specific location in the room and the total sound power response into the room goes to crap :duh:
james
...and I was hoping that James' work with the DSP based crossover for the Model T speaker prototype had convinced him of the magic a DSP can do to the sonic experience if used the "right way"... :lol:
Cheers!
Markus
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James,
has the SP3 more than one TIDA710 chip implemented?
thanks,
al.
Hi,
Yes 2.
james :thumb:
-
...and I was hoping that James' work with the DSP based crossover for the Model T speaker prototype had convinced him of the magic a DSP can do to the sonic experience if used the "right way"... :lol:
Cheers!
Markus
Hi marius,
Actually I have learned a lot with the speaker DSP design and one of them is don't screw with the speakers power response. :thumb:
james
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13: TOSLINK DIGITAL AUDIO OPTICAL INPUTS
The SP3 offers two assignable TOSLINK optical inputs.
These can be designated to any input using
the OS menu (“Other Settings”)on the LCD screen.
Please note that if you choose to assign an optical
input to an input with a coaxial input, the coaxial will
be over-ridden and the optical input signal will be
used by the SP3.
The pro model replaces the two TOSLINK connectors
with a single AES/EBU Digital connector.
I'm wondering if you can tell me what the digital OUTPUT on the SP3 does? Seems as if there isn't a proper description in the user manual. Also, the manual discusses 2 digital INPUTs vs the three shown in on the rear panel. Is number 3 assignable?
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I'm wondering if you can tell me what the digital OUTPUT on the SP3 does? Seems as if there isn't a proper description in the user manual. Also, the manual discusses 2 digital INPUTs vs the three shown in on the rear panel. Is number 3 assignable?
Hi,
There are 3 Toslink inputs - all 3 assignable.
The digital output is a STEREO Down-mix from any Digital or Analog source. This signal also appears at the AUX outs, the Zone outputs and Toslink and Headphone outputs.
james
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Hi,
There are 3 Toslink inputs - all 3 assignable.
The digital output is a STEREO Down-mix from any Digital or Analog source. This signal also appears at the AUX outs, the Zone outputs and Toslink and Headphone outputs.
james
What resolution does the digital output output and is it selectable?
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Woohoo, just heard my SP3 is with my dealer in the UK, so I can tomorrow swap out my loaner for the real one, at last all blue LEDs :oops:
James I will have a look and see which firmware is on it, I may bug you to find out what the latest version is :D
Cheers
-
What resolution does the digital output output and is it selectable?
Hi JeffO
48/24 downmix.
james
-
Woohoo, just heard my SP3 is with my dealer in the UK, so I can tomorrow swap out my loaner for the real one, at last all blue LEDs :oops:
James I will have a look and see which firmware is on it, I may bug you to find out what the latest version is :D
Cheers
Great News :thumb: - yes let me know and I can send you update if needed.
james
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Hi James,
Please forgive me for not searching the whole forum-topic, but what amplifiers would suggest combine optimally with my 28b's and a future 3.0? I could not find any suggestions in the pdf on the bryston website.
I'm trying to figure out wether I would have to replace my bp26 with the 3.o and only add extra amplification, or have a special HT setup in the other room, and leave the 28b's in the stereo, giving the multi channel setup a more balanced, as in overall power equality, per speaker setup.....
That is to say, I hope your advice would't be to add a couple of extra 28b's...
Thanks,
Marius
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Hi James,
Please forgive me for not searching the whole forum-topic, but what amplifiers would suggest combine optimally with my 28b's and a future 3.0? I could not find any suggestions in the pdf on the bryston website.
I'm trying to figure out wether I would have to replace my bp26 with the 3.o and only add extra amplification, or have a special HT setup in the other room, and leave the 28b's in the stereo, giving the multi channel setup a more balanced, as in overall power equality, per speaker setup.....
That is to say, I hope your advice would't be to add a couple of extra 28b's...
Thanks,
Marius
Hi marius,
Good question and it gets asked a lot. I think integrating a Surround system into the same room as a dedicated stereo setup can be problematic only because the speaker setup changes a bit. In Stereo you typically want a Triangle positioning of the left/right speakers/listening area vs a Surround setup where the front left and right speakers are at a more shallow angle (60%).
So if sharing the room for both Stereo and Surround I would set the room up to optimize STEREO and fill in the rest with Surround speakers. The SP3 is a terrific choice if you want an all in one preamp/processor solution.
As for power requirements I generally find 1/2 the power you are using on the Front Left/Right speakers on the Center and Surrounds works well in most setups - assuming comparable speakers at Center and Surround locations.
james
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ok James thanks, I thought as much.
All of this translates into what amplifier setup?
Shared - with the 28b's for left right needs which brystons for the surrounds?
Dedicated - could do with less power? I'd have a room of 25m2. Which amplifier setup would be optimal? 9b, 3b?
I wouldn't be able to afford to many extra 28b's or 14b's (alas, alas) so that could be a reason to settle for a dedicated HT setup with less power?
Thanks,
Marius
Marius
Hi marius,
Good question and it gets asked a lot. I think integrating a Surround system into the same room as a dedicated stereo setup can be problematic only because the speaker setup changes a bit. In Stereo you typically want a Triangle positioning of the left/right speakers/listening area vs a Surround setup where the front left and right speakers are at a more shallow angle (60%).
So if sharing the room for both Stereo and Surround I would set the room up to optimize STEREO and fill in the rest with Surround speakers. The SP3 is a terrific choice if you want an all in one preamp/processor solution.
As for power requirements I generally find 1/2 the power you are using on the Front Left/Right speakers on the Center and Surrounds works well in most setups - assuming comparable speakers at Center and Surround locations.
james
-
ok James thanks, I thought as much.
All of this translates into what amplifier setup?
Shared - with the 28b's for left right needs which brystons for the surrounds?
Dedicated - could do with less power? I'd have a room of 25m2. Which amplifier setup would be optimal? 9b, 3b?
I wouldn't be able to afford to many extra 28b's or 14b's (alas, alas) so that could be a reason to settle for a dedicated HT setup with less power?
Thanks,
Marius
Marius
Hi marius,
If a 5.1 ... I would use a 6B for the center and surrounds with the 28B's. If 7.1 then 6B and 3B.
If a dedicated setup for surround and 5.1 and more efficent speakers a 9B would be fine. If 7.1 a 4B and a 9B.
james
-
thanks!
Hi marius,
If a 5.1 ... I would use a 6B for the center and surrounds with the 28B's. If 7.1 then 6B and 3B.
If a dedicated setup for surround and 5.1 and more efficent speakers a 9B would be fine. If 7.1 a 4B and a 9B.
james
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Hi marius,
If a 5.1 ... I would use a 6B for the center and surrounds with the 28B's. If 7.1 then 6B and 3B.
If a dedicated setup for surround and 5.1 and more efficent speakers a 9B would be fine. If 7.1 a 4B and a 9B.
james
I like the Powerpacs with the SP3, just a thought..
Cheers
PS or how about the 4B monos :D
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ok James thanks, I thought as much.
All of this translates into what amplifier setup?
Shared - with the 28b's for left right needs which brystons for the surrounds?
Dedicated - could do with less power? I'd have a room of 25m2. Which amplifier setup would be optimal? 9b, 3b?
I wouldn't be able to afford to many extra 28b's or 14b's (alas, alas) so that could be a reason to settle for a dedicated HT setup with less power?
Thanks,
Marius
Marius
If you are just using multi-channel processor for HT, then you don't need alot of power for center channel,surrounds, side, back, speakers as they are only providing sound effects.
If however you are going to use multi-channel for music as well, then depending on size of speakers used for surrounds, center, sides, back, speakers, will determine what you need for amplification.
With my HT set up which I also use for multi-channel music, I'm using a fairly large center channel and large surround speakers. My 3B-SST, 3B-ST provide sufficient power un-bridged, without clipping at above average spl listening levels.
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Hi James,
Just loving my new SP3, only gets better with use...
Question: How do you define an " efficient speaker"?
When you say " efficient speakers" for a 7.1 arrangement
(4B + 9B).
Also, what is the difference between back surrounds and L/R surrounds for an SP3 setup? Right now, I have a 5.1 configuration using the L/R surrounds, but if I change it to back surrounds - how does Sp3 handle the music information to these speakers - same as L/R surrounds?
Ciao,
Luigi
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Hi James,
Just loving my new SP3, only gets better with use...
Question: How do you define an " efficient speaker"?
When you say " efficient speakers" for a 7.1 arrangement
(4B + 9B).
Also, what is the difference between back surrounds and L/R surrounds for an SP3 setup? Right now, I have a 5.1 configuration using the L/R surrounds, but if I change it to back surrounds - how does Sp3 handle the music information to these speakers - same as L/R surrounds?
Ciao,
Luigi
Hi Luigi
Glad you are enjoying your SP-3 :thumb: A speaker would be considered efficient with a rating around 90 DB.
The Back channels act similarly as the surrounds and are encoded with signals defined by the codex used - DTS -Dolby etc.
James
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Hey there everyone,
Question for James, and my apologies if this has been covered before...
I am interested in replacing my BP26 with an SP3 and building a HT setup. I primarily listen to music through my BDP-1 running through my BDA-1. My question is, will the SP3 eliminate the need for the BDA-1?
Thanks,
Mad Max
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Hey there everyone,
Question for James, and my apologies if this has been covered before...
I am interested in replacing my BP26 with an SP3 and building a HT setup. I primarily listen to music through my BDP-1 running through my BDA-1. My question is, will the SP3 eliminate the need for the BDA-1?
Thanks,
Mad Max
Hi Mad Max, I hope James doesn't mind me butting in, but I've just gone over to the SP3 from a BP26 and use the BDP/BDA combo, a couple of weeks I sat down and spent quite a while doing A/B's to see if I could sell my BDA-1, in a nutshell I found that the BDP-1 definitely performs better through the BDA-1, it's not night and day, but my preferred option was definately with the BDA-1, especially for 24bit.
Saying that, if selling the BDA-1 frees up some funds to make the SP3 purchase possible then that is definitely the way to go as the SP3 is just fantastic processor, but the ideal set up is definitely BDP-1 into BDA-1 into SP3, I'll definitely be keeping my BDA-1, that's for sure :thumb:
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Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know. I'll be hanging onto the BDA-1.
Cheers,
Mad Max
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Hi James
We just installed an SP3 and the customer is ecstatic.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58132)
I was over there today to listen to it and it is a big improvement.
Thanks
Mike Gruber
American Audiophile Trad.
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Hi Folks,
Nice feedback on the SP-3 from a customer in the Netherlands!!!
From: Jürgen
Sent: February-20-12 4:06 AM
To: jamestanner@bryston.com
Subject: RE: Bryston SP3
Hi James,
So I got the SP3.
I haven't had the time for an extensive evaluation. That will come later.
Let me just say for the moment that it is a really great AV processor which just sounds amazing when I did a comparison in stereo (digital and analog).
I couldn't hear differences between the two modes, while I am using a quite a highend CD/DVD player (from the German producer Audionet). As my aim was to get a new processor which can handle the new sound formats and does sound at least as good as the one I had, all is well. (And I wouldn't wonder if the SP3 is even better).
Jürgen
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James,
Just confirming we received a replacement SP3 where the rear channels aren't bridged. The result is fantastic (although it was before). Interestingly out of the box there was no doubt it was somewhat bright directly compared to the SP3 that had been running for a few months. No doubt after some time for the silicon to warm up that the response will settle.
Cheers,
Adam
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From: Michael
Sent: February-22-12 8:23 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: SP3 Feedback
James,
I just wanted to thank you for the great followup and support that you've been able to give me since I received the SP3 a few months back.
I recently had a Lord of the Rings marathon (watching all 3 extended edition movies back to back for 13 hours) and I couldn't believe the difference between the sound from the SP3 and the SP2 that it replaced. Simply amazing. I had people over watching who were able to pick out specific sounds in the background information with a new clarity that had not been there before. They were very impressed.
In particular, the bass is much more clean and pronounced now that I've tweaked my system. Also, the soundstage during 2-channel playback is amazing. I am having a hard time pulling myself away to get work done around the house.
Thank you for producing such a great product and standing behind it with respect to firmware updates to continuously improve.
Thanks,
Michael
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I didn't want to clutter up this thread, but I have put a few photos of my SP3 (with the famous Blue LEDs and display) in an album, if you click on my gallery.
Enjoy
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I didn't want to clutter up this thread, but I have put a few photos of my SP3 (with the famous Blue LEDs and display) in an album, if you click on my gallery.
Enjoy
As I've already said over the pond, it's amazing how quick you change continents nowadays :) awesome setup alpha :thumb: I can't believe how right the Blue LED's look, James, is it possible to change over from green to blue led's in a 100% Bryston System, ie, BCD-1,BDA-1, BDP-1, 7B's? Something PMC could do possibly?
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As I've already said over the pond, it's amazing how quick you change continents nowadays :) awesome setup alpha :thumb: I can't believe how right the Blue LED's look, James, is it possible to change over from green to blue led's in a 100% Bryston System, ie, BCD-1,BDA-1, BDP-1, 7B's? Something PMC could do possibly?
Hi Vipers,
Can't be done as the displays and all the light pipes would have to be changed - huge job.
james
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As I've already said over the pond, it's amazing how quick you change continents nowadays :) awesome setup alpha :thumb: I can't believe how right the Blue LED's look, James, is it possible to change over from green to blue led's in a 100% Bryston System, ie, BCD-1,BDA-1, BDP-1, 7B's? Something PMC could do possibly?
Sounds like you'd be better off selling the whole kitten-kaboodle and ordering all new with blue lights - lower cost. Either way, you'll need to live without that Bryston gear for a little while. Perhaps in doing that you could trade up to the 28's???
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Hi Vipers,
Can't be done as the displays and all the light pipes would have to be changed - huge job.
james
Thanks James, I thought as much, looks like I'll live with the green then, shouldn't moan really :roll:
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Perhaps in doing that you could trade up to the 28's???
Now you are talking, the 7B's are the only part of my system that I'd love to upgrade one day.
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Vipers,
You most likely are aware, but for those going to the Bristol Show this weekend....
PMC speakers will appear in 6 separate rooms this year. And Bryston in 3 I believe.
And What Hi-Fi Magazine has an AV room consisting of PMC /Bryston electronics in a 7.1 system.
Kyri
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Thanks James, I thought as much, looks like I'll live with the green then, shouldn't moan really :roll:
We have found the green light version sounds better :P
james
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We have found the green light version sounds better :P
james
Makes sense. Just like the green pen marker made CDs sound better. :lol:
Tony
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We have found the green light version sounds better :P
james
That's because they are more environmentally friendly - "green" lights... :bounce:
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We have found the green light version sounds better :P
james
I hope that was scientifically conducted in blind test conditions, good to know though, SSShhh, don't tell alpha :wink:
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You most likely are aware, but for those going to the Bristol Show this weekend....
PMC speakers will appear in 6 separate rooms this year. And Bryston in 3 I believe.
And What Hi-Fi Magazine has an AV room consisting of PMC /Bryston electronics in a 7.1 system.
Kyri
Hey Kyri,
I think PMC have taken over Bristol this year, I was hoping to go today, mainly to hear the BHA-1, but the drive put me off if I'm honest, here is some more info
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58478)
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Hey Vipers,
It was busier than I figured it would be. But a good show as always. I didn't intend on it, but I purchased a pair of PMC twenty 24s in walnut.
I was very impressed with all of the PMC & Bryston rooms.
Kyri
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Hey Vipers,
It was busier than I figured it would be. But a good show as always. I didn't intend on it, but I purchased a pair of PMC twenty 24s in walnut.
I was very impressed with all of the PMC & Bryston rooms.
Kyri
Hi Kyri
So give us some of your impressions of the show - did you take any pictures?
Starting a new thread.
James
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Hi James,
I normally attend on a Sunday, so I was expecting Saturday to be quieter. It was not. Foot traffic aside it was another great Bristol show.
There wasn't so much in the way of high end releases this year. I noticed a fair number of new speakers.
The new Spendor floor standers confused me, in that they didn't have their traditional sound. They were actually quite cold & harsh.
Rega had a set of transmission lines, which were warm & lovely.
Usher had a super sounding set of diamond tweetered floor standers.
There was a great deal of Naim amplification around. I counted at least 5 rooms. One of which was the Focal room.
Again, not impressive at all. The sound was very muddy. Every room in which I heard Naim equipment (Spendor included) sounded different, of course. But none of them sounded quite right. I don't know if it is a partnering issue, because I have heard each manufacturer in isolation and enjoyed the sound. Very strange.
Focal did have their first set of headphones there. At £200 I thought they presented a great buy. Beautifully finished and the great sound quality I know can come from Focal.
Leema always impress me & this year had the lower end components. A very dry and punchy presentation. Thankfully they are not the kind of company whose sound has huge disparity between price points. Their signature sound is easily noticeable, whether one is listening to their top end equipment or their entry level DAC.
I didn't manage to get into the What Hi-Fi room, to hear the 11 speaker PMC/Bryston set up. I did, however, sit in the SP3/PMC twenty series room. Stunning!
What really impressed me, above and beyond the soundstage and the dynamics, was the quality and effortless cohesion to the sound. It was by far the best AV set up I heard on the day. It was quite likely the most expensive, though.
In the 2 channel PMC/Bryston rooms the BHA-1 sat in one and the twenty series/BDP-1/BDA-1/BP26 & 4B SST2 in the other.
They begun with the twenty 21. Initially I thought they were OK. But another track or two and Woah!
They are small, but a speaker that small has no right sounding so large. The dynamics came from no where, too.
I had a good chat (as always) with Keith and Tom. Informative & friendly they always are. I wanted to hear the twenty 24s, so Tom told me he would set them up for me nearer the end of the day. Back I ran with 15 minutes to the end & I had the room to myself. Immediately I could hear how much smoother and more cohesive this series is compared to the i series. They do have a more dry bass, but it is just as extended. The big plus for me is the far greater midrange warmth & clarity and......timing! Boy are they great here. My ears were astounded with their transient attack and the way in which they dealt with dynamics.
In terms of where they sit in the PMC range, sound quality wise, I think they are far closer to the fact range than they are to the i series. In fact(excuse the pun), I think they are a superb integration of the two. Timing, smoothness & cohesion of the fact range, along with the most of the bass warmth & extension of the i series.
Kyri
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A question from out in left field....Can the gain be independently adjusted for the main and "zone" outputs?
Steve
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A question from out in left field....Can the gain be independently adjusted for the main and "zone" outputs?
Steve
I do not think so Steve - I will ask.
james
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A question from out in left field....Can the gain be independently adjusted for the main and "zone" outputs?
Steve
Hi Steve,
From engineering:
Main and zone outputs have fully independent level controls.
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Hi Steve,
From engineering:
Main and zone outputs have fully independent level controls.
Just planning ahead.
I couldn't visualize how to use the "zone" option without independent level control but couldn't determine if this was possible from reading the manual.
Steve
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There has been a little discussion on how the SP3 (pure direct) compares with the BP26 as a stereo preamplier, with some saying that it is very comparable. I don't doubt that at all, at least from reviewing the specifications but I did notice the following:
SP3 THD is .0013% (Bypass @ 2V out), lower than the BP26 .0015% (@ 3V out)
SP3 SNR is 110dB (Bypass @ 1V input, 22kHz) better than BP26 103db (1V input, 20 - 20kHz)
So the SP3 seems to better the BP26 but the specs are based on slightly different parameters.
Questions:
1. Why are the SP3 specs for THD not based on 3V output and for SNR, not quoted over the 20 - 20,000 bandwidth?
2. If the SP3 is a better preamp design than the BP26, BP16 and BP6 - can we expect this new design to make it's way into all Bryston preamplifier circuits?
3. Is the SP3 analogue power supply / transformer and filter capacitors more similar to those used in the MPS-2 or rather the BP6 or neither? Is this an improved power supply design over what's used on other Bryston preamplifiers and can we expect to see this make it's way into other Bryston preamplier products?
Secon : but might ask whether the performance of the SP3 as a stereo preamplifier would be better likened to that of the BP6 vs. the BP26. The reason being that the BP6 has an integrated power supply for the preamp, much like in the SP3, aknowledging that the SP3 provides balanced outs like the BP26, whereas the BP6 does not.
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There has been a little discussion on how the SP3 (pure direct) compares with the BP26 as a stereo preamplier, with some saying that it is very comparable. I don't doubt that at all, at least from reviewing the specifications but I did notice the following:
SP3 THD is .0013% (Bypass @ 2V out), lower than the BP26 .0015% (@ 3V out)
SP3 SNR is 110dB (Bypass @ 1V input, 22kHz) better than BP26 103db (1V input, 20 - 20kHz)
So the SP3 seems to better the BP26 but the specs are based on slightly different parameters.
Questions:
1. Why are the SP3 specs for THD not based on 3V output and for SNR, not quoted over the 20 - 20,000 bandwidth?
2. If the SP3 is a better preamp design than the BP26, BP16 and BP6 - can we expect this new design to make it's way into all Bryston preamplifier circuits?
3. Is the SP3 analogue power supply / transformer and filter capacitors more similar to those used in the MPS-2 or rather the BP6 or neither? Is this an improved power supply design over what's used on other Bryston preamplifiers and can we expect to see this make it's way into other Bryston preamplier products?
Secon : but might ask whether the performance of the SP3 as a stereo preamplifier would be better likened to that of the BP6 vs. the BP26. The reason being that the BP6 has an integrated power supply for the preamp, much like in the SP3, aknowledging that the SP3 provides balanced outs like the BP26, whereas the BP6 does not.
Hi Soundgame - the circuitry in the SP3 gain stages are slightly different and so far I think the feedback is favoring the SP3 as equal to or sometimes superior to the other Bryston preamps. it is not always easy to answer why as so many things are interrelated and the sum is greater than the parts sometimes.
I do feel confident though in saying to our customers that if you want an integrated Stereo and Surround system then SP3 will certainly fit the bill.
james
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Hi Soundgame - the circuitry in the SP3 gain stages are slightly different and so far I think the feedback is favoring the SP3 as equal to or sometimes superior to the other Bryston preamps. it is not always easy to answer why as so many things are interrelated and the sum is greater than the parts sometimes.
I do feel confident though in saying to our customers that if you want an integrated Stereo and Surround system then SP3 will certainly fit the bill.
james
james
So James, the big question is which do YOU prefer to use for dedicated 2-channel listening and WHY?
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So James, the big question is which do YOU prefer to use for dedicated 2-channel listening and WHY?
Tough one because they have slightly different presentations. So I do not think it comes down to better - more one of difference.
The BP preamps are a touch more forward and have a bit more 'prescence' to them. The SP3 sounds a little more distant and laid back. I think if you feel your system is a touch reticent you would prefer the BP Series of preamps and if you felt your system was too forward or in your face you would probably like the SP-3.
James
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Tough one because they have slightly different presentations. So I do not think it comes down to better - more one of difference.
The BP preamps are a touch more forward and have a bit more 'prescence' to them. The SP3 sounds a little more distant and laid back. I think if you feel your system is a touch reticent you would prefer the BP Series of preamps and if you felt your system was too forward or in your face you would probably like the SP-3.
James
This is great feeback to get. Thanks for sharing your personal impressions James. :thumb:
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From: Greg
Sent: March-02-12 11:01 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: SP3
Hi James
I have had some time now with the SP3. It sounds absolutely great.
Two things I didn't expect:
1) For most, perhaps all, inputs, the SP3 will do the crossover for the sub. The sub seems better integrated and coherent now than it did with the SP2.
2) The SP3 can route 2 different audio sources to 2 different zones, and video to 2 zones in parallel. The primary audio zone can drive a 7 channel amp, plus (2) other stereo down mixed amps, which means I can watch a movie in surround, and in the kitchen, at the same time.
Super versatility and superb sound.
Thanks
From: James Tanner
Sent: March-03-12 7:08 AM
To: 'Greg Anderson'
Subject: RE: SP3
Hi Greg,
That’s great news - thanks for the feedback. I think the SP3 is gaining the reputation of "BEST SOUND" but limited FRILLS - which suits me just fine.
James
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hi, folks!
SP3 introduced by Brian Russell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEeoen5n8o
James,
if i understand the interview correctly then Brian said that the DSP board is bought somewhere else (if so, from where?). was it impossible for Bryston to develop their own?
al.
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Hi Folks
Have not seen it yet but word has it the SP-3 got a review in the very prestigious UK magazine 'Home Cinema Choice' and received a 5 Star rating for Sound and Design but only 2 stars for features.
I am OK with that :thumb:
James
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58962)
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...if i understand the interview correctly then Brian said that the DSP board is bought somewhere else (if so, from where?). was it impossible for Bryston to develop their own?
al.
Hi Al,
Bryston has been using Digital Audio Engines (DAE) from Momentum Data Systems (www.mds.com (http://www.mds.com)) in all its preamplifier/processors, i.e. from the Motorola equipped SP-1 to the TI equipped SP1.7/2/3.
I think, developing such a digital board yourself from the scratch would just not be economically feasible for the quantities Bryston is producing and selling. Considering the problems and challenges associated with HDMI (the switching board is also provided by Momentum Data Systems), I think Bryston has made the best decision, not to invest engineering ressources into building such components themselves, if you are not convinced that you can do it better than an OEM at a reasonable price. By purchasing it from an OEM, the OEM can acchieve economies of scale and we end up with a product that is superior through Bryston's expertise in analog audio and is financially still in reach for a number of audiophiles, subcategory "Brystonites". ;) When using OEM parts, Brystons has been known to either modify them themselves or have the OEM produce a special modified Bryston variant of the standard OEM part, if memory serves me right. I think the soundcards in the BDP-1 are an example for a modified component.
James has always pointed out that it is the analog and the power supply part that most distinguishes a Bryston from other manufacturers that might have more bells and whistles, some more bit and kHz or a more "fancy" newer generation DAC chip.
Hope this helps and answers your question!
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Al,
Bryston has been using Digital Audio Engines (DAE) from Momentum Data Systems (www.mds.com (http://www.mds.com)) in all its preamplifier/processors, i.e. from the Motorola equipped SP-1 to the TI equipped SP1.7/2/3.
I think, developing such a digital board yourself from the scratch would just not be economically feasible for the quantities Bryston is producing and selling. Considering the problems and challenges associated with HDMI (the switching board is also provided by Momentum Data Systems), I think Bryston has made the best decision, not to invest engineering ressources into building such components themselves, if you are not convinced that you can do it better than an OEM at a reasonable price. By purchasing it from an OEM, the OEM can acchieve economies of scale and we end up with a product that is superior through Bryston's expertise in analog audio and is financially still in reach for a number of audiophiles, subcategory "Brystonites". ;) When using OEM parts, Brystons has been known to either modify them themselves or have the OEM produce a special modified Bryston variant of the standard OEM part, if memory serves me right. I think the soundcards in the BDP-1 are an example for a modified component.
James has always pointed out that it is the analog and the power supply part that most distinguishes a Bryston from other manufacturers that might have more bells and whistles, some more bit and kHz or a more "fancy" newer generation DAC chip.
Hope this helps and answers your question!
Cheers!
Markus
Well said Marcus - thanks. Reinventing the wheel only adds additional costs (HDMI licensing for instance) whereas modifiying circuitry around generic chips reaps huge rewards in performance.
james
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"but only 2 stars for features."
*********
One reason that I like Bryston stuff....lack of so called features.
Steve
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"but only 2 stars for features."
*********
One reason that I like Bryston stuff....lack of so called features.
Steve
+1
When looking at other processors out there, it may be nice to have 11.2 channels, bi-amp capability, video processing, more inputs than equipment I could fit in the room and room correction up to 20 kHz but I just want my 5.1 channels to sound good excellent. All Bryston components seem to fit the bill. The SP3 has the features I need and not anymore that I would spend hours on rather than using it.
Jeff
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Hi Folks
Have not seen it yet but word has it the SP-3 got a review in the very prestigious UK magazine 'Home Cinema Choice' and received a 5 Star rating for Sound and Design but only 2 stars for features.
I am OK with that :thumb:
James
I'm looking forward to picking up a copy as soon as it hit's the shelves myself, basically HCC is one of the more respected magazines over here and their reviews carry quite a bit of weight as they are known not to bought by the advertisers, unlike other mags over here that I can mention :roll:
Although it only gives 2 stars for features I'm sure that the article will re-iterate what we all know, it's all about the sound quality, and that is what the SP3 excels at, who needs pointless features anyway.
Here is the add that PMC are running in HCC, we have got a PMC/Bryston open day in a couple of weeks showcasing the SP3 and new PMC twenty range so hopefully the article will bring some extra people in to witness for themselves the wonder of the SP3 :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58974)
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James,
The specs in the manual state the high frequency cutoff for all channels is 22 kHz for modes other than bypass. Does this mean even when feeding 24/96 or higher into a digital input the SP3 is not outputting any signal higher than 22 kHz even though the DACs are 24/192 capable and are outputting a signal up to 86 kHz? Wouldn't this mean any input high than 24/48 is effectively wasted on the SP3?
Jeff
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I think that they are referring to the analog output to the amps. The usually stated upper limit for human hearing is 20kHz which most children and some adults can hear. For most of us, however, high frequency loss begins after age eight years and continues thereafter. For old people such as myself it is much less. My cutoff is probably around 13 kHz.
Steve
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James,
The specs in the manual state the high frequency cutoff for all channels is 22 kHz for modes other than bypass. Does this mean even when feeding 24/96 or higher into a digital input the SP3 is not outputting any signal higher than 22 kHz even though the DACs are 24/192 capable and are outputting a signal up to 86 kHz? Wouldn't this mean any input high than 24/48 is effectively wasted on the SP3?
Jeff
Refers to the analog section.
James
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Refers to the analog section.
James
I see that the frequency response for the BP series preamps is 20Hz to 20kHz. As well, even the BDA-1 is quoted as having such a frequency response.
If a digital file contains information / frequencies beyond the audible range i.e. above 20kHz and / or below 20 Hz, does the final analogue stage output of the SP3 and the BP series preamps as well as that of the BDA-1 pass that or is it truncated at the 20Hz-20kHz or in the case of the SP3 22kHz range.
The reason I ask is that a number of speakers using the latest in tweeter design technologies output well above 20,000Hz and though this is not in the audible range there has been some arguement that the breakdown of these frequencies within the room do stretch into the audible range and have a positive effect on sonics.
I do note that Bryston amplfiers do have power bandwidth ratings up to 100kHz are the analogue stages in the Bryston preamplifiers and source components not able to utilize this range?
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From our British Distributor:
Hi James,
The SP-3 Surround Processor got a REFERENCE AWARD! from a very prestigious UK magazine called 'Home Cinema Choice'.
Congrats.
Keith
PMC
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Nice one James,wonder when my AV-8 will bite the dust :dunno:.
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I will trade you an organ for an SP-3:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=59065)
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That's a great intro James :lol: anyone who can bring the Black Knight, one of the greatest comedy scenes of all time, into an introduction regarding the serious subject about one of the best sound processors on the planet is OK with me, I'll pop into the shops tomorrow to pick up a copy, first I'll just check that I've got all my limbs intact :)
[after slicing one of the Black Knight's arms off]
King Arthur: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch.
King Arthur: A scratch? Your arm's off.
Black Knight: No it isn't.
King Arthur: What's that, then?
Black Knight: [after a pause] I've had worse.
King Arthur: You liar.
Black Knight: Come on ya pansy.
[King Arthur has just cut the Black Knight's last leg off]
Black Knight: All right, we'll call it a draw.
King Arthur: [Preparing to leave] Come, Patsy.
[King Arthur and Patsy ride off]
Black Knight: [calling after King Arthur] Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!
CLASSIC :thumb:
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I suppose I could sacrifice my left N_ _ for the SP-3,don't use it anyway :o, :duh:.
back to you Monty.
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I will trade you an organ for an SP-3:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=59065)
Hi Folks,
I have a copy in PDF of the complete article if you want a copy - email me at jamestanner@bryston.com
james
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Thanks for e-mailing a copy over to me earlier James, I went to buy a copy today but it isn't out till Thursday, it a pretty stunning review, well worth a read, even if it does imply that the SP3 is quirky and bonkers for a couple of reasons, but the reviewer was spot on saying how amazing the the audio quality is, which is the whole point, I still get surprised by my SP3, just at the overall clarity and musicality really.
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James - Thanks for the HCC review,
Excellent report...Congratulations :thumb: :thumb:
On your behalf, it's a shame that the reviewer ranted on about how difficult the unit is to setup due not having an on screen ability and also the lack of features. :nono:
However, on those two points the flexibility of not having an on screen menu did initially make me hesitate purchasing the unit. It was not until I learnt that the unit provide this facility via your home network (computer, Ipad etc) did I change my mind, which, coincidently the reviewer failed to mention this additional ‘feature’.
With regard to the lack of other features, I used to own the Arcam AV888 which had these additional features and in my view, your ‘lack of features’ certainly out ways the performance of the AV888.
Not wanting to speak for your other customers, but I’m, sure they will agree, I am positive that the reason why we purchase a Bryston unit over your competitors is that the production of the purist audio sound quality is paramount to your customers and not a mixed bag of features that we would probably not ever use.
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Ritchief,
I have an idea of how to connect the SP3 to a PC, but how can one do this to an iPad? I would very much like to know.
I don't think that the SP3 is difficult to setup and to handle - I just find it very easy - after one has an idea of the concept.
But what I would like to see is an App for the iPad/iPhone to operate the SP3. How about it, James?
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In my opinion, for those who are operating systems at this level you are by far getting the best by separating the video and audio processing.
An SP3 for audio processing matched with something like a DVDO iScan Duo for the video side of things is absolutely outstanding. Hell, even a DVDO Edge has video processing that will significantly outperform the surround sound receivers out there.
When an edge is so cheap and so effective, I really don't understand the all in one box approach.
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+1 for an iPad app for SP3.
BDP-1 has one, why not the SP3? :wink:
Thoroughly enjoying my SP3 :thumb:
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+1 for an iPad app for SP3.
BDP-1 has one, why not the SP3? :wink:
Thoroughly enjoying my SP3 :thumb:
Yes I think the iPaD app is a great idea :thumb:
James
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Yes I think the iPaD app is a great idea :thumb:
James
James, does this mean that you will be actioning this suggestion and develop & release an app ?
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James, does this mean that you will be actioning this suggestion and develop & release an app ?
James,
'Yes' is enough. :thumb:
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Ritchie,
Could you answer my question about how to let the SP3 and the iPad communicate?
Thanks.
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Yes I think the iPaD app is a great idea :thumb:
James
Could "IRule" be set up as a controller for SP3, BDA, BDP, etc?
http://www.iruleathome.com/
Steve
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Ritchie,
Could you answer my question about how to let the SP3 and the iPad communicate?
Thanks.
HI Ritchie,
There is no App at this time but you can control the SP3 by using your web-browser by typing in sp3-(serial number of your unit) or the IP address of the SP-3.
james
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Folks,
How good is the headphone section on the SP3? How does it compare to some of the better headphone amps out there (including Bryston's)?
Jeff
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HI Ritchie,
There is no App at this time but you can control the SP3 by using your web-browser by typing in sp3-(serial number of your unit) or the IP address of the SP-3.
james
Correct, this is what I meant by means of control via an Ipad, not that I have one. However, as the IPAD3 has just been released (16th March), I may just have to invest in one now.
Even more so now, as James is going to develop an App for the SP3 in the future!.
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Could you answer my question about how to let the SP3 and the iPad communicate?
I've just logged into my SP3 with my Ipad 2, and you get full functionality of the SP3, just as if you were using the front panel buttons, but the only thing that plays up is volume control, it doesn't seem to work, other than that it works a treat :)
If you log in to the SP3 using your PC then you also have volume control thanks to a slider bar.
A dedicated app would be nice though :wink:
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I've just logged into my SP3 with my Ipad 2, and you get full functionality of the SP3, just as if you were using the front panel buttons, but the only thing that plays up is volume control, it doesn't seem to work, other than that it works a treat :)
If you log in to the SP3 using your PC then you also have volume control thanks to a slider bar.
A dedicated app would be nice though :wink:
Hi Vipers,
On the IPAD.... touch the round volume control on the SP3 web interface and type a value into the white box -( Example 55 )- and then touch the volume control again and the SP-3 will switch to that value.
james
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Folks,
How good is the headphone section on the SP3? How does it compare to some of the better headphone amps out there (including Bryston's)?
Jeff
I use the headphone out on the SP3 quite a lot with my Grado PS1000's and it sounds great, I've got a BHA-1 on order so as soon as I get that I'll be able to let you know how it compares, hopefully not to much longer, eh James? especially with my open day coming up next weekend :wink:
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Hi Vipers,
On the IPAD.... touch the round volume control on the SP3 web interface and type a value into the white box -( Example 55 )- and then touch the volume control again and the SP-3 will switch to that value.
james
Hi James,
Thanks for the reply, that definitely makes sense, but for some reason it still seems a little hit and miss, can you try it when you get a minute and let me know how you get on.
Maybe I just need an Ipad 3 :)
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Spent the weekend setting up an SP3. I initially set the speaker levels using the internal test tones but found I did not like the sound. When I checked the levels using a test disk I found the centre and sub were 5 - 10 dB high compared to the others.
Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug in the test tones of the SP3?
After I set the levels using the test disk the audio was outstanding, I could not be happier, miles ahead of the OPPO 93 through my old 1.7. Watched a couple of movies and listened to some flac files from a thumb drive from the OPPO. I now understand the attraction of the BDP, no need to have the screen on.
I tried using the SP3 to integrate a sub for 2 channel and got very good results. James, are there any plans to allow for stereo subs as there are outputs for 2 subs on the back?
Jeff
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The meter you are using, is it set to a C weighted slow response?
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Spent the weekend setting up an SP3. I initially set the speaker levels using the internal test tones but found I did not like the sound. When I checked the levels using a test disk I found the centre and sub were 5 - 10 dB high compared to the others.
Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug in the test tones of the SP3?
After I set the levels using the test disk the audio was outstanding, I could not be happier, miles ahead of the OPPO 93 through my old 1.7. Watched a couple of movies and listened to some flac files from a thumb drive from the OPPO. I now understand the attraction of the BDP, no need to have the screen on.
I tried using the SP3 to integrate a sub for 2 channel and got very good results. James, are there any plans to allow for stereo subs as there are outputs for 2 subs on the back?
Jeff
Hi Jeffo
What version of software are you running?
James
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Spent the weekend setting up an SP3. I initially set the speaker levels using the internal test tones but found I did not like the sound. When I checked the levels using a test disk I found the centre and sub were 5 - 10 dB high compared to the others.
Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug in the test tones of the SP3?
After I set the levels using the test disk the audio was outstanding, I could not be happier, miles ahead of the OPPO 93 through my old 1.7. Watched a couple of movies and listened to some flac files from a thumb drive from the OPPO. I now understand the attraction of the BDP, no need to have the screen on.
I tried using the SP3 to integrate a sub for 2 channel and got very good results. James, are there any plans to allow for stereo subs as there are outputs for 2 subs on the back?
Jeff
Hi Jeffo
You can use the pair of AUX outs to add a second Sub or just use the XLR and RCA sub outs together.
Glad you are enjoying the sound :thumb:
James
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Spent the weekend setting up an SP3. I initially set the speaker levels using the internal test tones but found I did not like the sound. When I checked the levels using a test disk I found the centre and sub were 5 - 10 dB high compared to the others.
Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug in the test tones of the SP3?
Jeff
I initially used the internal tones, but because I read about a difference between internal and external tones I tried it with external tones, too.
However I couldn't measure a difference.
When I did the measurements I used Firmware 2012.04.
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The meter you are using, is it set to a C weighted slow response?
Yes
What version of software are you running?
2012.04
I reran the setup when I got home. Using the WOW disk to set the levels, I then checked the internal tones. The internal tones had the centre 5 dB higher and the sub 8 dB lower. :scratch: The levels using the test disk seem correct for the sub as the higher level from the internal test tones does not integrate a sub very well when on 2 channel so I am staying with the external settings for now.
James, one thing you should point out in the manual is each input has to be setup individually, including the triggers. I set up the sat box first then switched to the BluRay and spend 20 minutes checking wires and settings before I glanced at the amp and realized it was off and I had to set the trigger for the new input. :duh:
Jeff
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Timing is also a factor. You want the sound arriving from the center channel to blend with mains. Arrival times of speakers hitting your ears first, tends to mask sound from other speakers.
My preference is to not have a forward sounding center. Either equal to or behind the soundstage plane. You can do this by adjusting the center channel distance farther back than what it actually is. You'll have to experiment to where it sounds right to your ears.
Also adjusting the sub volume is best done by ear. You want the volume to be approx. 6 decibels higher due to IIRC Fletcher Munson effect, where bass frequencies sound quieter than higher frequencies. :smoke:
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Got this today from Home Cinema Choice Magazine in the UK for the Bryston SP-3 Processor:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=59549)
james
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I ordered an SP3 yesterday. Surprisingly it's a stock item. :bowdown:
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I ordered an SP3 yesterday. Surprisingly it's a stock item. :bowdown:
Great! - please let me know your thoughts once it is all set up. :thumb:
james
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Got this today from Home Cinema Choice Magazine in the UK for the Bryston SP-3 Processor:
james
Congratulations James, I read the review in the train station yesterday, he did love it. I would get them to write an update next issue though, as there is a photo of the remote with a caption saying it has NO back-light! clearly didn't read the manual...
Cheers
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Hi James,
Thanks for the reply, that definitely makes sense, but for some reason it still seems a little hit and miss, can you try it when you get a minute and let me know how you get on.
Maybe I just need an Ipad 3 :)
James~ I have bought the iPad3 and I confirm that the volume control via the iPad 3 does not work. The button just flashes and does not accept either a new volume number or by backspacing / delete.
Rich.
PS loving my wife's new Ipad3 that I bought her !!!!!
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Hi guys,
Just like to update my last post. I have just installed SP3_05 and I am very happy to report that the SP3 does work via the Ipad.
You select the volume box, backspace / delete the figures and enter a new number and then press the volume circle..
Excellent. BZ to Bryston !!!
James - really looking for forward to the Ipad Bryston App that will hopefully integrate both the SP3 & BDP-1.#
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James - really looking for forward to the Ipad Bryston App that will hopefully integrate both the SP3 & BDP-1.#
That is an interesting last line, can you tell us more James, or was it wishful thinking. If it is real then I will go out an get an Ipad3 tomorrow :D
Cheers
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Just sucked it up and ordered an SP3. Can it be controlled with Safari and I-Phone? Just thinking about outdoor speakers via SP3 zone and BDP/BDA. BDP works well with MPod, would be nice to be able to control SP3 volume via I-Phone. (This would be a big plus for the WAF)
Steve
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Just sucked it up and ordered an SP3. Can it be controlled with Safari and I-Phone? Just thinking about outdoor speakers via SP3 zone and BDP/BDA. BDP works well with MPod, would be nice to be able to control SP3 volume via I-Phone. (This would be a big plus for the WAF)
Steve
Congratulations !!!!..
I don't have an iphone or apple computer, but I assume that if it works on an Ipad it will equally work on those two devices.
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Hi guys,
Just like to update my last post. I have just installed SP3_05 and I am very happy to report that the SP3 does work via the Ipad.
Thanks for the update Ritchief, is that new SP3 firmware? I'm at work and not sure what I am on at the moment, great news if the volume works via the Ipad as I had a real problem to get it working reliably last time I tried.
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Thanks for the update Ritchief, is that new SP3 firmware? I'm at work and not sure what I am on at the moment, great news if the volume works via the Ipad as I had a real problem to get it working reliably last time I tried.
Yes, the SP3 Firmware 2012.05 was uploaded on or around the 6th March, but I only checked the website this week. It appears that a lot of back ground updates were included in this update which, whilst not clearly identified, has alllowed volume control to work from the Ipad.
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I updated the Firmware for the SP3 a few weeks ago.
But I would like to see on the Bryston website information when new firmware or other information (e.g. an updated manual) is available.
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I updated the Firmware for the SP3 a few weeks ago.
But I would like to see on the Bryston website information when new firmware or other information (e.g. an updated manual) is available.
I would love to see Bryston having a database of all SP3, BDP1 owners etc and when new firmware was released they emailed it directly to SP3, BDP1 owners etc
James - is this a possibility ?
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:D
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I would love to see Bryston having a database of all SP3, BDP1 owners etc and when new firmware was released they emailed it directly to SP3, BDP1 owners etc
James - is this a possibility ?
It would be nice if the Bryston Web site had a list of latest software, release notes and download ability for registered users. The current system of software management isn't up to Bryston's usual service standards.
Steve
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Fellow SP3 & Ipad owners...
A word of warning, be very careful when entering a new number on the volume control via the Ipad because if you remove the "-" (minus) sign and enter a new number, the SP3 goes into full volume control..
For example I was happily listening to some music at -38 and thought that I could do with a few more db's so changed it via the Ipad to 3. However I had removed all the minus sign, thus the SP3 climbed in volume from -38 to + 12 MAX VOLUME :duh:.....the house exploded with noise and I had to quickly get to the SP3 to quickly wind down the volume...
So, James, I think that we need to some firmware assistance here. Is there any chance of having a "Max Volume" setting within the setup menu to remedy this "user" error. Please....
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Fellow SP3 & Ipad owners...
A word of warning, be very careful when entering a new number on the volume control via the Ipad because if you remove the "-" (minus) sign and enter a new number, the SP3 goes into full volume control..
For example I was happily listening to some music at -38 and thought that I could do with a few more db's so changed it via the Ipad to 3. However I had removed all the minus sign, thus the SP3 climbed in volume from -38 to + 12 MAX VOLUME :duh:.....the house exploded with noise and I had to quickly get to the SP3 to quickly wind down the volume...
So, James, I think that we need to some firmware assistance here. Is there any chance of having a "Max Volume" setting within the setup menu to remedy this "user" error. Please....
Thanks - I will forward to Stan (SP-3 software engineer) and have him look at that.
james
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Yes, the SP3 Firmware 2012.05 was uploaded on or around the 6th March, but I only checked the website this week.
Thanks Rich, sounds like I'm an update behind, I've just checked on Brystons Main Site under technical but there doesn't seem to be a firmware download for the SP3, am I missing something somewhere?
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Thanks Rich, sounds like I'm an update behind, I've just checked on Brystons Main Site under technical but there doesn't seem to be a firmware download for the SP3, am I missing something somewhere?
Vipers, as per the below link which is found via the SP3 "Help" webpage at the bottom of the page.
ftp://bryston.com/pub/fw/sp3/
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Thanks - I will forward to Stan (SP-3 software engineer) and have him look at that.
james
Thank you - as all ways, we can rely on you and the team to react to our requests. :thumb:
Rich.
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Thank you - as all ways, we can rely on you and the team to react to our requests. :thumb:
Rich.
Here here :D
James it was mentioned above, but not sure how real it is, do you think we will see a combined SP3/BDP-1 IPad App??
It would be cool :thumb:
Cheers
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Vipers, as per the below link which is found via the SP3 "Help" webpage at the bottom of the page.
ftp://bryston.com/pub/fw/sp3/
Nice one Rich, I'll update tomorrow and make sure I keep the - in when changing volume, be great to be able use the Ipad though, now I really do need a Ipad 3 :)
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do you think we will see a combined SP3/BDP-1 IPad App??
+1 from me on that one :thumb:
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MEMO: To all Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Feedback from One of Our Dealers in N.Y.
April 2012
From - AUDTEK SALES AND MARKETING
WWW.AUDTEK.COM
March 30th., 2012 for immediate release:
BRYSTON SP-3 SURROUND PROCESSOR
In a NYC Triplex, with dual level terraces, the dealer/integrator*1 used the advanced video pass through to seamlessly pass 1080p video to one DLP projector and 3D to another[DiLA] projector.
As quoted by the salesman: “We were a little apprehensive of using the SP-3 in this installation due to the need for it to plug-n-play with the [Savant], without any tolerance for re-visit due to [OUR] mandatory requirement by the owners to be off site within 5 days. Using two SP-3’s added to our concern as this was a new product for us.”
This is the second major installation of the new BRYSTON SP-3 pre-processor in the NY Area recently and additionally utilized a new BRYSTON 8ch. D-65 Class D Zone amplifier. (http://www.bryston.com/products/power_amps/D65Z.html) “The Bryston D-65 Zone amp worked brilliantly for us as a surround amp in the bedroom where space and ventilation was limited”. The dealer/integrator used the RS-232 control from the SP-3 to integrate with the SAVANT system, and both units handled all switching flawlessly.
“We have always respected the sound of BRYSTON, and I have sold BRYSTON throughout my career, but this SP-3 is on a whole new level… Might be the best sounding pre-amp I have ever heard at any price!
Thank you for suggesting this”.
Integrated Electronic Solutions
Yonkers, N.Y.
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HI Folks,
I have been informed that there will be the first of a two-part review in Stereophile Magazine on the SP-3 in the May issue under 'Music In The Round'.
james
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HI Folks,
I have been informed that there will be the first of a two-part review in Stereophile Magazine on the SP-3 in the May issue under 'Music In The Round'.
james
From random web comments, I gather that Kal Rubinson has had an SP3 that he has been putting through it's paces. From a few of his comments, I think that the review will be very positive.
On a different topic, hopefully Fed Ex will be bringing my SP3 tomorrow. In thinking about setting it up, I was wondering what, if anything that I should use the 7.1 inputs for, if all of the lossless audio is coming in via HDMI. My audio is now almost exclusively BDP/BDA and vinyl. I occasionally put an SACD/DVD-A in the OPPO.
Steve
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hopefully Fed Ex will be bringing my SP3 tomorrow.
My audio is now almost exclusively BDP/BDA and vinyl.
Congratulations Steve and welcome to the club :D
For me since buying the SP3, I now listen to more 2Ch music than ever before, the combination of BDP/BDA/SP3 for Redbook audio, is the best I have heard, ever. Actually, James, I wonder if anyone has bought an SP3, just for its 2Ch performance?
I have left my Oppo (83SE) as HDMI only, not bothered with the analogue cables, but if you have them it may be worth an experiment.
Cheers
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From random web comments, I gather that Kal Rubinson has had an SP3 that he has been putting through it's paces. From a few of his comments, I think that the review will be very positive.
On a different topic, hopefully Fed Ex will be bringing my SP3 tomorrow. In thinking about setting it up, I was wondering what, if anything that I should use the 7.1 inputs for, if all of the lossless audio is coming in via HDMI. My audio is now almost exclusively BDP/BDA and vinyl. I occasionally put an SACD/DVD-A in the OPPO.
Steve
My understanding is that Kal Rubinson is a professed supporter of Room Correction, so his perspectives on a grass-roots yet bleeding edge technology Bryston pre-pro will be very interesting.
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Congratulations Steve and welcome to the club :D
For me since buying the SP3, I now listen to more 2Ch music than ever before, the combination of BDP/BDA/SP3 for Redbook audio, is the best I have heard, ever. Actually, James, I wonder if anyone has bought an SP3, just for its 2Ch performance?
I have left my Oppo (83SE) as HDMI only, not bothered with the analogue cables, but if you have them it may be worth an experiment.
Cheers
Alpha, I can't recall but were you previously using a Bryston BP preamp in your 2-ch, just prior to the inclusion of the SP3? If so, how specifically would you describe the improvement that the SP3 has brought to the sonic table?
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Alpha, I can't recall but were you previously using a Bryston BP preamp in your 2-ch, just prior to the inclusion of the SP3? If so, how specifically would you describe the improvement that the SP3 has brought to the sonic table?
Hi SG, I have had a BP26 in my system, for 2Ch (Balanced from BDA), the SP3 for me, although I have been careful about saying this in public, is much more detailed yet relaxing to listen to, which is odd, the SP3 is more 'toe tapping' to me as well, I was listening to Paolo Nutini earlier, which is the sort of tune that shows the difference. I am sure things will be different in different rooms and systems, but for me in my room and taste the SP3 is a clear winner, hey and it does surround sound as a bonus..
Cheers
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Hi SG, I have had a BP26 in my system, for 2Ch (Balanced from BDA), the SP3 for me, although I have been careful about saying this in public, is much more detailed yet relaxing to listen to, which is odd, the SP3 is more 'toe tapping' to me as well, I was listening to Paolo Nutini earlier, which is the sort of tune that shows the difference. I am sure things will be different in different rooms and systems, but for me in my room and taste the SP3 is a clear winner, hey and it does surround sound as a bonus..
Cheers
This is interesting though perplexing in that James has described the BP preamps as being similar in performance to the SP3 in 2-ch but providing a different presentation. He mentioned that the BP pre-amps could be described as more forward vs. the SP3, while the being more laid-back. My interpretation of that was that the BP preamps would come across as more intimate and lively and perhaps providing a more "toe-tapping" experience, whereas the SP3 would be more laid back and hence, being more relaxed and larger sounding, though less intimate. Your description seems to imply that the SP3 brings more detail, is more relaxed and yet offers a greater degree of PRAT. :scratch:
Perhaps Vipers can share his thoughts as well.
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Congratulations Steve and welcome to the club :D
For me since buying the SP3, I now listen to more 2Ch music than ever before, the combination of BDP/BDA/SP3 for Redbook audio, is the best I have heard, ever. Actually, James, I wonder if anyone has bought an SP3, just for its 2Ch performance?
I have left my Oppo (83SE) as HDMI only, not bothered with the analogue cables, but if you have them it may be worth an experiment.
Cheers
Thanks, I think that I will start with a minimalist set up. One reason for getting the SP3 was to simplify my cable runs. I will be able to eliminate the HDMI switcher and the additional cables from my other HDMI devices and the 7.1 analog.
My wife asked yesterday when I could set things up so that she could run the BDP and have volume control from her I-Phone for the outside speakers. Hopefully the SP3 will allow that with only a bit of a hassle.
Steve
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I was just looking at what audio formats the device can handle, and in the manual all I could come across was in the 232 codes:
INPT Query Input Signal INPTxx
(Source Program)
QS query, response xx=
00: Unknown or illegal
01: Analog, BP7 or BP2
02: Digital pass-through
03: Pink-noise test
04: Auto
05: Bitstream
06: All DTS formats
07: PCM Auto
08: PCM (CD audio)
09: PCM 8 ch
0a: AC3 (Dolby Dig)
0b: DTS
0c: AAC (MPEG4,MPEG2,iPhone,
iPod,iPad,NintendoDSi,
iTunes,DivX,PS3,PSP,
SonyWalk,phones,Wii.
0d: MPEG (MPEG1 Layer 1 and 2)
0e: DTS12 (DVD IEC Type 12)
0f: DTS13 (DVD IEC Type 13)
10: DTS14 (CD 14-bit)
11: DTS16 (CD 16-bit)
12: WMP (WMA Pro)
13: MP3
14: DSD1 (SACD 1bit)
15: DSD2
16: DSD3
17: DDP (Dolby Dig+)
18: DTS HD or Master
19: DOlby TrueHD
1a: DXP (DTS Express)
Is that to say that this lists the entire range of formats the SP3 can decode?
i.e. AC3, DTS, PCM (2ch), PCM (multi channel), AAC, MPEG (layer 1 and 2), WMA Pro, MP3, DSD, DD+, DTS HD/MA, DD True HD and DTS Express
Would that be the complete list?
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Starting to set up the SP3. Seems to be similar to SP1.7, however, the surround modes don't seem to function with 2ch input, SP set to "stereo". Pressing the surround buttons has no effect, no modes appear on the display. I have BDP/BDA connected to "CD" in. Plays fine 2ch either stereo or 2ch bypass.
Steve
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Starting to set up the SP3. Seems to be similar to SP1.7, however, the surround modes don't seem to function with 2ch input, SP set to "stereo". Pressing the surround buttons has no effect, no modes appear on the display. I have BDP/BDA connected to "CD" in. Plays fine 2ch either stereo or 2ch bypass.
Steve
You need to 'unselect' stereo on it. So you need to make sure both 2ch bypass and stereo are set to off, and then you can use the surround modes.
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Starting to set up the SP3. Seems to be similar to SP1.7, however, the surround modes don't seem to function with 2ch input, SP set to "stereo". Pressing the surround buttons has no effect, no modes appear on the display. I have BDP/BDA connected to "CD" in. Plays fine 2ch either stereo or 2ch bypass.
Steve
...congrats on your new SP3, Steve :thumb:! keep us updated on how you like the sound...and please post some pictures :green:.
al.
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You need to 'unselect' stereo on it. So you need to make sure both 2ch bypass and stereo are set to off, and then you can use the surround modes.
Thanks...
Steve
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...congrats on your new SP3, Steve :thumb:! keep us updated on how you like the sound...and please post some pictures :green:.
al.
The new SP3 and the very low WAF environment that it is now is
living in. The listening area is a "work in progress"....ceiling lighting and conduits are in and the power tools are off of the floor. :>)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60707)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60708)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60709)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60710)
Steve
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I was just looking at what audio formats the device can handle, and in the manual all I could come across was in the 232 codes:
INPT Query Input Signal INPTxx
(Source Program)
QS query, response xx=
00: Unknown or illegal
01: Analog, BP7 or BP2
02: Digital pass-through
03: Pink-noise test
04: Auto
05: Bitstream
06: All DTS formats
07: PCM Auto
08: PCM (CD audio)
09: PCM 8 ch
0a: AC3 (Dolby Dig)
0b: DTS
0c: AAC (MPEG4,MPEG2,iPhone,
iPod,iPad,NintendoDSi,
iTunes,DivX,PS3,PSP,
SonyWalk,phones,Wii.
0d: MPEG (MPEG1 Layer 1 and 2)
0e: DTS12 (DVD IEC Type 12)
0f: DTS13 (DVD IEC Type 13)
10: DTS14 (CD 14-bit)
11: DTS16 (CD 16-bit)
12: WMP (WMA Pro)
13: MP3
14: DSD1 (SACD 1bit)
15: DSD2
16: DSD3
17: DDP (Dolby Dig+)
18: DTS HD or Master
19: DOlby TrueHD
1a: DXP (DTS Express)
Is that to say that this lists the entire range of formats the SP3 can decode?
i.e. AC3, DTS, PCM (2ch), PCM (multi channel), AAC, MPEG (layer 1 and 2), WMA Pro, MP3, DSD, DD+, DTS HD/MA, DD True HD and DTS Express
Would that be the complete list?
Yes it is, that is what MDS processor board supports at the moment.
Stan
Bryston
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Another SP3 set up question. HDMI out from OPPO 83....Audio Format Setup...HDMI Audio "Bitstream" gives 5.1 in with a 7.1 movie. HDMI Audio to "Auto" gives 7.1 from 7.1 audio disc. With set up set to "auto" which device is doing the decoding? Or am I missing something?
Steve
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deleted
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Another SP3 set up question. HDMI out from OPPO 83....Audio Format Setup...HDMI Audio "Bitstream" gives 5.1 in with a 7.1 movie. HDMI Audio to "Auto" gives 7.1 from 7.1 audio disc. With set up set to "auto" which device is doing the decoding? Or am I missing something?
Steve
I leave my 83 set to 'bitsream' I believe the auto was implemented to give some support to legacy AVRs, sending either PCM or bitstram depending on their capabilities.
Cheers
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I leave my 83 set to 'bitsream' I believe the auto was implemented to give some support to legacy AVRs, sending either PCM or bitstram depending on their capabilities.
Cheers
That is how I had my 83 set up until I ran a 7.1 test disk and noted that bit-stream via HDMI doesn't seem to send 7.1. The back channels are directed to the surround channels. Same situation when I played Super 8, SP3 reported 5.1 in and 5.1 out. The "auto" sends 7.1 channels to the SP3... but of what, PCM or bit-stream?
Steve
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This is interesting though perplexing in that James has described the BP preamps as being similar in performance to the SP3 in 2-ch but providing a different presentation. He mentioned that the BP pre-amps could be described as more forward vs. the SP3, while the being more laid-back. My interpretation of that was that the BP preamps would come across as more intimate and lively and perhaps providing a more "toe-tapping" experience, whereas the SP3 would be more laid back and hence, being more relaxed and larger sounding, though less intimate. Your description seems to imply that the SP3 brings more detail, is more relaxed and yet offers a greater degree of PRAT. :scratch:
Perhaps Vipers can share his thoughts as well.
I have to say that I agree with Alpha on the whole, when I read James comments on any difference between the BP's and SP3 I found that I was finding something all together different with the presentation differences between the 2 processors, as already mentioned I guess different systems and environments give different results.
After living with the BP26 for a couple of years and recently switching to the SP3 I agree that they are quite similar in overall presentation, they are both unmistakeably 'Bryston' in their sound but I found the SP3 to appear slightly more detailed and cleaner with greater insight into the recording, possibly slightly more forward sounding, which I personally prefer, if anything I find the BP26 more laid back, if you are only after 2ch though then I would stick with the BP26 but if, like me, you want to incorporate 2ch and movies into one system then the SP3 is deserved of all the praise it is getting, and if push came to shove for 2ch I would choose the SP3 as my prefered processor.
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As previously stated, I agree that the SP3 is, in my opinion, marginally better than the BP26 and furthermore includes all the greatness of 2ch into multichannel.
-
Another query - what AAC sampling rates is the SP3 able to decode?
I have an issue with a device which streams online services, and passes through the AAC streams (i.e. youtube). The SP3 produces a rather glitchy sound on these sources. I am a beta tester for this manufacturer and am trying to determine where the issue lies.
Cheers,
Adam
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Another query - what AAC sampling rates is the SP3 able to decode?
I have an issue with a device which streams online services, and passes through the AAC streams (i.e. youtube). The SP3 produces a rather glitchy sound on these sources. I am a beta tester for this manufacturer and am trying to determine where the issue lies.
Cheers,
Adam
Hi Adam
Can you email me jamestanner@bryston.com and I will pass this to Stan our SP3 engineer.
James
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Hi Folks
Should have a PDF of the Stereophile Part 1 review this week so email me at jamestanner@bryston.com if you want a copy.
James
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Hi Folks,
PDF link of the SP-3 Stereophile Review - Part 1
Ignore the security warning
https://bryston.com/PDFs/SP3.pdf
james
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I read the article. Congrats James! Great review of the SP-3!
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James,
Congrats on very nice review. Kal's opinions are highly regarded by me (& I'm sure by many others).
As for the 2-channel analogue circuity in SP-3, which I presume similar to BP-26, is not fully balanced, is it?
Thanks,
Klao
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Excellent article James, you must be a happy chappy, looking forward to PT2, After reading comments like -
'This was the first time in a very long time that I had enjoyed convincing multi channel high resolution sound without digital processing, chalk it up to the excellent analog signals provided by the Oppo, but also, in no small measure to the Brystons SP3 utterly transperent sound'
I feel I should explore using the multichannel outputs a little more from my Oppo 95, I know when I used to have my Pioneer Susano I much preferred the Oppo doing the decoding but since I got the SP3 I have been more than happy with it's performance over HDMI, time to have a play I feel, maybe I'm missing a trick here :roll:
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James,
Congrats on very nice review. Kal's opinions are highly regarded by me (& I'm sure by many others).
As for the 2-channel analogue circuity in SP-3, which I presume similar to BP-26, is not fully balanced, is it?
Thanks,
Klao
Hi Klao
The circuitry is a little different in the SP-3 from our previous processors or preamps. As I have said before though, when you get to this level of performance it is more a massaging of the circuits rather than an outright shift. Evolutionary rather than Revolutionary. The SP-3 like the BP-26 has fully differential balanced inputs but if you are using the single ended inputs (as the reviewer did) in either preamp then it is not a differential input of course.
The SP-3 analog section has a really nice what I would call 'Natural' sound about it. My first reaction to it was that it had detail and terrific resolution but not at the expense of a 'foward' or 'at you' kind of presentation. The soundstage moves out, back and away from the plain of the speaker.
James
-
I have been asked a few times why no digital room correction on the Bryston SP-3 Processor.
The problem I see with Digital room correction through ‘EQ’ is that it totally screws up the direct sound vs the reflected sound coming from the speaker.
When you listen to a speaker in a room you are listening to what we call the ‘power response’ and you hear all the direct sound as well as the reflected sound mixed together. So the listening experience is a combination of all the direct and reflected sound waves in a given room with a given speaker. When you alter the ‘direct sound’ at the speaker using ‘EQ’ it totally changes the relationship between the direct and reflected sound and is a disaster when it comes to ‘time smear’. So the speaker designer has spent years attempting to get flat frequency and phase response from his speaker and we come along and force the speaker to do anything but accurate signal transfer. Also if you are going to use ‘EQ’ try and only ‘reduce’ the ‘peaks’ in the room and not ‘amplify’ the troughs. Amplifying the troughs can play havoc with your speaker drivers power handling.
A lot of these newer types of ‘EQ’ products try and average a group of curves taken from many different locations in the room as they are attempting to reduce the negative effects of the single listening chair dilemma. Having a single spot in the room which measures flat but everywhere else in the room measures like crap is not a good result in my opinion. I think you are much better off adjusting the speaker location and using proper room treatments. If all else fails maybe some ‘EQ’ can be used but I would recommend keeping the correction only for the very low bass frequencies and stay away from upper bass, mids and higher frequency ‘EQ’ where room affects are not an issue due to the shorter wavelengths involved. I am hopeful that we will see many more Subwoofers with built in room ‘EQ’ which would be the better solution in my opinion if you are forced to use room correction.
Also ‘Room Correction’ much like ‘Video’ is changing quickly and I wanted the SP-3 to be a long-term purchase for our customers so adding specific dedicated boxes as the current technologies develop to the SP-3 made more sense to me going forward rather than obsoleting some questionable feature in the SP-3.
Hope this helps.
James
-
Also if you are going to use ‘EQ’ try and only ‘reduce’ the ‘peaks’ in the room and not ‘amplify’ the troughs. Amplifying the troughs can play havoc with your speaker drivers power handling.
Agreed. Dips are caused by phase cancellations, where the sound reaching the listening position is a combination of an original direct soundwave and a reflected sound that is 180 degrees out of phase at the dip (one half wavelength). When you add a gain filter at that dip frequency, not only does the direct sound increase by the number of dB of the filter, but unfortunately the 180 degree out of phase signal also applies an equal and opposite signal to counteract. The result is that your dip is still there and you have wasted the gain you've thrown at it.
But with a peak, the direct signal arriving at the listening position is combining with a reflected signal that is in phase at the peak. When a cut filter is applied, not only does the direct signal drop, so does the reflected signal drop at the same time. The peak is easily reduced.
Either way, it's not smart to apply any EQ at frequencies above 100Hz - the wavelengths are too short above that for the the repaired listening position to be large enough to matter - don't move your head when listening or the EQ would be ineffective.
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Hi James
About 18 months ago I asked you about room correction.
Your answer (in addition to what you have said above) said that there is room correction available on the chip and that if you went in the room correction direction you would use Audyssey but only below 200.
I am wondering what your current attitude is.
Is it "eventually but we are in no hurry"?
Is it "we have lost interest"?
Is it "lets see what improvements Audyssey comes up with"?
Taking on board what you have said above, my personal preference would be Audyssey below 100 (or maybe 120).
I guess that like lots of others I would be looking for some room correction to deal with the worst of the room peaks (& I know that my room has them!!) but I would prefer the correction to be in the processor not the subs.
Can you give us some further elaboration on this and especially the points that I have raise?
Many thanks.
Bruce
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Hi James
About 18 months ago I asked you about room correction.
Your answer (in addition to what you have said above) said that there is room correction available on the chip and that if you went in the room correction direction you would use Audyssey but only below 200.
I am wondering what your current attitude is.
Is it "eventually but we are in no hurry"?
Is it "we have lost interest"?
Is it "lets see what improvements Audyssey comes up with"?
Taking on board what you have said above, my personal preference would be Audyssey below 100 (or maybe 120).
I guess that like lots of others I would be looking for some room correction to deal with the worst of the room peaks (& I know that my room has them!!) but I would prefer the correction to be in the processor not the subs.
Can you give us some further elaboration on this and especially the points that I have raise?
Many thanks.
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
I would say at this point it is not a high priority for us.
james
-
Thanks James
Very clear answer.
I guess that we will all see what the future holds.
Bruce
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I have been asked a few times why no digital room correction on the Bryston SP-3 Processor.
The problem I see with Digital room correction through ‘EQ’ is that it totally screws up the direct sound vs the reflected sound coming from the speaker.
When you listen to a speaker in a room you are listening to what we call the ‘power response’ and you hear all the direct sound as well as the reflected sound mixed together. So the listening experience is a combination of all the direct and reflected sound waves in a given room with a given speaker. When you alter the ‘direct sound’ at the speaker using ‘EQ’ it totally changes the relationship between the direct and reflected sound and is a disaster when it comes to ‘time smear’. So the speaker designer has spent years attempting to get flat frequency and phase response from his speaker and we come along and force the speaker to do anything but accurate signal transfer. Also if you are going to use ‘EQ’ try and only ‘reduce’ the ‘peaks’ in the room and not ‘amplify’ the troughs. Amplifying the troughs can play havoc with your speaker drivers power handling.
A lot of these newer types of ‘EQ’ products try and average a group of curves taken from many different locations in the room as they are attempting to reduce the negative effects of the single listening chair dilemma. Having a single spot in the room which measures flat but everywhere else in the room measures like crap is not a good result in my opinion. I think you are much better off adjusting the speaker location and using proper room treatments. If all else fails maybe some ‘EQ’ can be used but I would recommend keeping the correction only for the very low bass frequencies and stay away from upper bass, mids and higher frequency ‘EQ’ where room affects are not an issue due to the shorter wavelengths involved. I am hopeful that we will see many more Subwoofers with built in room ‘EQ’ which would be the better solution in my opinion if you are forced to use room correction.
Also ‘Room Correction’ much like ‘Video’ is changing quickly and I wanted the SP-3 to be a long-term purchase for our customers so adding specific dedicated boxes as the current technologies develop to the SP-3 made more sense to me going forward rather than obsoleting some questionable feature in the SP-3.
Hope this helps.
James
James,
I have never asked for this, as I know it is irrelevant to the proper sounding setup in a listening environment, as you noted within…’proper speaker placement and room treatments’. A number of years ago I wrote an article, for most likely Residential Systems or Pro Sound News, where I setup a room as follows;
Lexicon MC-12, w/o room treatments…settings by ear, w/o treatment with Radio Shack meter, with room treatments, and finally with the $3600 AKG (4) mic room correction kit optioned by Harman. (fronts were most likely B&W 802 & rears were either B&W or Genelec 8030) The result, my ear was only off by 1dB from the meter (except the sub )…and the room, TREATED w/o room correction was FAR superior to the ‘corrected EQ’ room, w/o treatment. So your comment reflects my many tests.
Dr. D’Antonio might, if he had time, comment on this, but suffice to say, any studio, anywhere in the world, if properly designed, is treated to take advantage of said space, without need for EQ. DSP as we know maybe used in post but for different reasons. Dr. D., might give you the science behind it, as it relates to your comment within, but I think BRYSTON is proper in not using a pseudo room correction EQ.
By the way, Alan Parsons was recently quoted in a magazine as saying that Room treatment should be a primary consideration, as it is in the professional field, whereas in the consumer market, it is more of a ‘snake oil’ mystique of an esoteric labeled product.
Wayne
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From: David
Sent: April-24-12 1:30 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: Bryston SP-3 No Room Correction
Hi James
My input is I've spent countless hours finessing room EQ for home theatre using a few Pioneer Elite receivers.
For my room, I've worked out the best solutions for low frequency bass management as well as basic room eq for mid and upper frequencies. I've added and subtracted subs and done the measurements and tests all over again.
After countless hours and measurements finding the best sound, I turned it all off and now use none. No eq at all. It's just not needed.
David
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FWIW I agree, and have set up several rooms specifically to not use any processor correction at all. Some friends wondered about the relative angles and how far away the rear channels were, but when you skip corrections for time and amplitude the sound is much cleaner and much more coherent. When PCM tracks were still included in movies I could always get better sound from that than DTS or DD.
It always surprises people how little room treatment is actually needed in a properly designed assymetrical listening area, and how a second sub to break up room modes always works better than treatments or processing.
Best Regards,
Mark Thoman
ST Marketing, Ltd.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
James
I 100% agree with you.
Sadly, what everyone (most people) want is the instant fix, the magic bullet, the instant pill. The audio viagra knob.
We have JL Audio installers who, while otherwise sort-of well intentioned dealers, simply hit ARO on the JL sub, Audyssey on the receiver, then say they are done and go to lunch. Then downstream a little bit I get the discouraged call from the end user, who fancies themself an audiophile, and wants to know why it doesn't "seem" as if their entire system is performing quite as good as it could.
In short, they want to tweak, but are not really sure what to tweak.
I liken this to no matter what the chef prepares, nearly everyone will salt and pepper the plate before even tasting it. It's just human nature.
And in dealing with end user and support for the last 20+ years, I find that essentially EVERYONE is convinced the laws of physics do not apply in "their" room; that "their" room is not going to have any standing waves or flutter echo; and that they are somehow going to get 4000 watts of audio out of a 120V 15A outlet in North America.
I will extrapolate on all this in gruesome detail in my forthcoming book, Audio Anthropology. I'll make sure you get a preview copy.
Kind regards,
Barry Ober
Senior Audio Engineer
Owner and Chief Science Officer
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Question: What should users of the SP 3.0 do to best accommodate vinyl? Should Bryston offer a solution tailored to the SP 3.0 other than their current offerings?
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Question: What should users of the SP 3.0 do to best accommodate vinyl? Should Bryston offer a solution tailored to the SP 3.0 other than their current offerings?
Hi
We do offer an outboard phono stage and power supply called the BP1.5 and MPS2. So plugging that in to the SP3 would work. If you mean building a phono stage internally to the SP3 then that would not be possible due to space limitations.
James
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Thank you for the prompt reply. I was hoping to avoid (several) more visible pieces of equipment. However the problem of space within the SP-3 makes sense.
-
I have been asked a few times why no digital room correction on the Bryston SP-3 Processor.
The problem I see with Digital room correction through ‘EQ’ is that it totally screws up the direct sound vs the reflected sound coming from the speaker.
When you listen to a speaker in a room you are listening to what we call the ‘power response’ and you hear all the direct sound as well as the reflected sound mixed together. So the listening experience is a combination of all the direct and reflected sound waves in a given room with a given speaker. When you alter the ‘direct sound’ at the speaker using ‘EQ’ it totally changes the relationship between the direct and reflected sound and is a disaster when it comes to ‘time smear’. So the speaker designer has spent years attempting to get flat frequency and phase response from his speaker and we come along and force the speaker to do anything but accurate signal transfer. Also if you are going to use ‘EQ’ try and only ‘reduce’ the ‘peaks’ in the room and not ‘amplify’ the troughs. Amplifying the troughs can play havoc with your speaker drivers power handling.
A lot of these newer types of ‘EQ’ products try and average a group of curves taken from many different locations in the room as they are attempting to reduce the negative effects of the single listening chair dilemma. Having a single spot in the room which measures flat but everywhere else in the room measures like crap is not a good result in my opinion. I think you are much better off adjusting the speaker location and using proper room treatments. If all else fails maybe some ‘EQ’ can be used but I would recommend keeping the correction only for the very low bass frequencies and stay away from upper bass, mids and higher frequency ‘EQ’ where room affects are not an issue due to the shorter wavelengths involved. I am hopeful that we will see many more Subwoofers with built in room ‘EQ’ which would be the better solution in my opinion if you are forced to use room correction.
Also ‘Room Correction’ much like ‘Video’ is changing quickly and I wanted the SP-3 to be a long-term purchase for our customers so adding specific dedicated boxes as the current technologies develop to the SP-3 made more sense to me going forward rather than obsoleting some questionable feature in the SP-3.
Hope this helps.
James
Hi James,
This room correction paper is a great piece. Room correction algorithms have become the recent fad and I hope it ends up being a fad that goes away soon. It is true that correction under 300Hz can be beneficial, especially if you only have one sub and limited room placement options, but in my view the proper solution is really one or two or more subs properly placed.
Also, in my view, room correction is simply adding linear distortion. You want to bring the original performance into your room not a distorted version of it.
Cheers
Ian
Axiom Audio
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Hi Folks,
It has been confirmed that Part 2 of the SP-3 review in Stereophile Magazine will be in the July issue. :thumb:
james
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Friends,
I recently replaced my Meridian 861v4 with the Bryston SP-3. I have a question about playing hi-rez audio through the SP-3.
I have the Bryston BDP-1 connected to the SP-3 directly by coax cable to the CD input. I also have the BDP-1 AES output connected to a Berkeley DAC, with the Berkeley connected to the SP-3 through the Bal-1 analog input. Playing hi-rez material (24/192 or 24/96 downloaded from HD Tracks) through the Berkeley always plays fine. Playing the same material through the CD input (and therefore using the internal DAC on the SP-3) usually plays fine, but not always. On those occasions when I get no sound, I can cure the problem by switching the input to Bal-1 and then back to CD.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the SP-3 could not play hi-rez material directly—that you needed an external DAC to do that. If that is the case, then perhaps I have stumbled onto a happy surprise. But if the SP-3 is supposed to be 24/96 or 24/192 capable, this is an odd problem.
Any insights are appreciated.
Best regards,
Jeff
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When you say the the BDP-1 SPDIF coaxial output is connected to the SP-3 CD input, I assume you mean that it is connected to one of the SPDIF inputs 1 - 4 and that you have assigned that digital input to the CD input selector in the System Setup Menu (Digital Sources > CD > SPDIF 1 - 4).
The SP-3 has 24/192 DACs. Perhaps try a different SPDIF input and change the digital source assignment in the Setup Menu and see if it behaves the same. Does it happen with all high resolution file formats or are all tracks the same format?
Steve
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Friends,
I recently replaced my Meridian 861v4 with the Bryston SP-3. I have a question about playing hi-rez audio through the SP-3.
I have the Bryston BDP-1 connected to the SP-3 directly by coax cable to the CD input. I also have the BDP-1 AES output connected to a Berkeley DAC, with the Berkeley connected to the SP-3 through the Bal-1 analog input. Playing hi-rez material (24/192 or 24/96 downloaded from HD Tracks) through the Berkeley always plays fine. Playing the same material through the CD input (and therefore using the internal DAC on the SP-3) usually plays fine, but not always. On those occasions when I get no sound, I can cure the problem by switching the input to Bal-1 and then back to CD.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the SP-3 could not play hi-rez material directly—that you needed an external DAC to do that. If that is the case, then perhaps I have stumbled onto a happy surprise. But if the SP-3 is supposed to be 24/96 or 24/192 capable, this is an odd problem.
Any insights are appreciated.
Best regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
Yes the SP3 will do 192/24.
Make sure under Options in CD Source setup you have the PCM -ZR set to DISABLE. Also set the SP 3 to STEREO with Digital input selected on the SP-3 with the BDP as the source.
Also what version of software are you using as the switching problem may be an earlier version of software.
James
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Steve and James,
Thanks for the responses. Setting the PCM-ZR to disable appears to have solved the problem. My unit is loaded with firmware version 2012.04. I checked Bryston's website, and cannot seem to find a place that identifies the current version of the firmware. Please let me know if there is a place you can go to check on that.
Steve, I did have the BDP-1 hooked up to the SPDIF inputs. The problem randomly occurred, whether I was using a 96/24 or a 192/24 resolution file.
Thanks again.
Jeff
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Steve and James,
Thanks for the responses. Setting the PCM-ZR to disable appears to have solved the problem. My unit is loaded with firmware version 2012.04. I checked Bryston's website, and cannot seem to find a place that identifies the current version of the firmware. Please let me know if there is a place you can go to check on that.
Steve, I did have the BDP-1 hooked up to the SPDIF inputs. The problem randomly occurred, whether I was using a 96/24 or a 192/24 resolution file.
Thanks again.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
email me at jamestanner@bryston.com and I will send you the link.
james
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Hi James,
Could you tell me if the headphone input of the SP3 would be able to drive these headphones?
Beyer T1 (600 ohms, 102 DB), Sennheiser HD800 (300 Ohms, 102DB), Fostex TH900 (25 ohms, 100DB sensitivity)
Thanks
-
Hi James,
Could you tell me if the headphone input of the SP3 would be able to drive these headphones?
Beyer T1 (600 ohms, 102 DB), Sennheiser HD800 (300 Ohms, 102DB), Fostex TH900 (25 ohms, 100DB sensitivity)
Thanks
Should be OK on the first 2 but 25 ohms may be an issue.
james
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Did I tell you I'd bought an SP3? No, really, I have this time. It's in my rack right now and I've locked the door.
Have you seen the back panel? No composite, s-video nor component. A thing of beauty. :bowdown:
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Did I tell you I'd bought an SP3? No, really, I have this time. It's in my rack right now and I've locked the door.
Have you seen the back panel? No composite, s-video nor component. A thing of beauty. :bowdown:
Great - glad you got it sorted - :thumb:. be very interested in your opinion on the sound????
james
-
Did I tell you I'd bought an SP3? No, really, I have this time. It's in my rack right now and I've locked the door.
Have you seen the back panel? No composite, s-video nor component. A thing of beauty. :bowdown:
Brilliant news, I hoped you would get there in the end, and yes just stripped down brilliant sound, what more could you want :D
If you have any questions, fire them over, here or AVF :thumb:
Cheers
-
Did I tell you I'd bought an SP3? No, really, I have this time. It's in my rack right now and I've locked the door.
Have you seen the back panel? No composite, s-video nor component. A thing of beauty. :bowdown:
Congratulations !!!
-
Thanks fella's.
I'm one rack, three amp channels and a sub away from nirvana.
Listening to 2 channel bypass right now. The sound is strong (like a melon farmer!). The detail is exquisite, absolutely marvelous.
Florence & The Machine - MTV Unplugged (CD) - Wow.
Craig Armstrong - The Space Between Us (CD) - Fabulous.
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (HDAD Disc - 192/24 Side) - How good is that.
More soon. :thumb:
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From: Jim Slevinsky
Sent: May-18-12 1:51 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: RE: SP3?
James
I am now proud owner of SP3 000160. Manual was from February, but my 17 year old did basic config for me in about 5 minutes (he got speaker distance/xover point/gain from our Onkyo stand-in). We really like the straightforward menu structure and orthogonal function flexibility.
The initial impression from both of us – radically better speech intelligibility, way better dynamics, and much better imaging. All considered, a step function improvement over the Onkyo- 9B configuration.
Have a great long weekend.
Jim
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Did I tell you I'd bought an SP3? No, really, I have this time. It's in my rack right now and I've locked the door.
Have you seen the back panel? No composite, s-video nor component. A thing of beauty. :bowdown:
Hey onthefly, great news, I knew you'd get there in the end :D
Another member to the UK SP3 club :thumb:
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Hey onthefly, great news, I knew you'd get there in the end :D
Another member to the UK SP3 club :thumb:
Thanks Paul. I had a sniff at two other brands but you never know what you've really bought until you've lived with it for a while. Too risky so I stuck with JT and the famous Bypass. :thumb:
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Dealer Feedback SP-3 Surround Processor
DATE: May 2012
From: PAUL from the UK
Sent: May-26-12 8:09 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: SP-3 DEMO
Hi James,
I just did a SP3 demo this morning, and the customer was nearly in tears.
It really moved him, he's got a 1.7 at the moment but he was totally blown away by the SP3, he made me smile though as to be able to afford it he is going to give up his daily Costa coffee, Buying lunch out every day and he has given up smoking.
So not only is the SP3 the best processor on the planet but it also helps saves lives :-)
Thanks,
Paul.
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Congrats on the sp3 mate .. a great step foward.
There is a new processor launched in the US called the datasat RS20i and there is nonsense chat about that it out performs both the ada & bryston sp3 due to its eq/dirac on board.
http://datasatdigital.com/
Quote:
The performance of the Datasat over the ADA/Bryston SP3 , yes it is a big step forward in performance, processor wise both very very good .Dirac is the big game changer the ability to clean up the sound stage to the extent that the detail all the way through the frequency range is stunning + the ability to EQ 4 subwoofer's individually rather than one for incredible bass control. End Quote.
-
Congrats on the sp3 mate .. a great step foward.
There is a new processor launched in the US called the datasat RS20i and there is nonsense chat about that it out performs both the ada & bryston sp3 due to its eq/dirac on board.
http://datasatdigital.com/
Quote:
The performance of the Datasat over the ADA/Bryston SP3 , yes it is a big step forward in performance, processor wise both very very good .Dirac is the big game changer the ability to clean up the sound stage to the extent that the detail all the way through the frequency range is stunning + the ability to EQ 4 subwoofer's individually rather than one for incredible bass control. End Quote.
Not sure where this fits - who is saying this and did they review the SP3.
james
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Hi James,
No that comment was just from some folk members on a forum having a debate comparing pre pro's. Its all speculation, I am sure that they have never heard an SP3. I think they feel the sp3 is incomplete without the eq function.
:thumb:
-
Hi James,
No that comment was just from some folk members on a forum having a debate comparing pre pro's. Its all speculation, I am sure that they have never heard an SP3. I think they feel the sp3 is incomplete without the eq function.
:thumb:
Ah - ok - I guess we should be proud of the fact they see us as the one to beat
:thumb:
-
Hi Folks,
Got my copy of the July 2012 Stereophile Magazine and the second part of the SP3 review by Kalman Rubinson is on Page 51 :thumb:
My favorite comment in the review is.... "Altogether, I think the Bryston SP-3 is the first great audiophile preamplifier-processor."
james
-
Is anyone using the newer type jack plug trigger from an SP3 to a 4B?
Do I just need a mono (two core) 3.5mm lead with the plug cut off one end and the cable stripped bare to the amp plug?
-
Is anyone using the newer type jack plug trigger from an SP3 to a 4B?
Do I just need a mono (two core) 3.5mm lead with the plug cut off one end and the cable stripped bare to the amp plug?
Correct - just insert (screw) the 2 wires into the 12 volt pull out connector and plug it back into the rear of the amp. Polarity does not matter.
Make sure the toggle switch on the back of the amp is in Trigger position.
james
-
Is anyone using the newer type jack plug trigger from an SP3 to a 4B?
Do I just need a mono (two core) 3.5mm lead with the plug cut off one end and the cable stripped bare to the amp plug?
Yes - as James noted. With Bryston and other equipment I just bought a connector and ran spare wire I had laying around. I did have normal cables I could have cut the end off of but some of the wires are very thin (you don't want anything too thick either) and more of a pain to screw into the back.
-
Hi Folks,
Got my copy of the July 2012 Stereophile Magazine and the second part of the SP3 review by Kalman Rubinson is on Page 51 :thumb:
My favorite comment in the review is.... "Altogether, I think the Bryston SP-3 is the first great audiophile preamplifier-processor."
james
James, would you happen to have the PDF for the second part?
-
James, would you happen to have the PDF for the second part?
Not yet - it has to be put together and OK'ed for distribution.
james
-
I hope my copy of stereophile will arrive tomorrow, too.
-
My favorite comment in the review is.... "Altogether, I think the Bryston SP-3 is the first great audiophile preamplifier-processor."
james
Looking forward to reading PT2 James, that is certainly a very high endorsement, not that I expected any different to be honest, and reiterates what I've been saying since I got my SP3, basically that the SP3 is the first multichannel processor that I have ever heard that performs faultlessly with both 2 channel and multi channel, no easy task.
-
"My favorite comment in the review is.... "Altogether, I think the Bryston SP-3 is the first great audiophile preamplifier-processor."
********
I upgraded from SP1.7 to SP 3.0 primarily for ease of use in managing HDMI, etc. and decoding the newer movie 7.2 HD audio. As a bonus, it does sound better than the 1.7 with Blue Ray, I'm not sure 2CH bypass using BDA/BDP is different.
Steve
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Well, I got Stereophile today. Some things my attention were drawn to (in addition to the sentence James quoted):
- KR couldn't get 24/192 kHz resolution files via HDMI (but it did work via the S/PDIF input;- Bryston said that the first was unexpected and will be resolved.
- 'Despite all this [the mentioned input via HDMI, Buseto], the bottom line was that my Connecticut rig had never sounded better than when the Bryston was running things.'
- 'I think the Bryston SP-3's analog performance is the secret sauce of this wonderful pre-pro - its qualities shone through regardless of whether I used digital or analog sources, and whether or not they were processed.'
And one question:
The firmware update website of the SP3 doesn't show any files since a couple of days. Why is that? And what is the latest firmware version (mine is 2012.05e)?
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Well, I got Stereophile today. Some things my attention were drawn to (in addition to the sentence James quoted):
- KR couldn't get 24/192 kHz resolution files via HDMI (but via the S/PDIF input;- Bryston that the first was unexpected and will be resolved.
- 'Despite all this [the mentioned input, Buseto], the bottom line was that my Connecticut rig had never sounded better than when the Bryston was running things.'
- 'I think the Bryston SP-3's analog performance is the secret sauce of this wonderful pre-pro - its qualities shone through regardless of whether I used digital or analog sources, and whether or not they were processed.
And one question:
The firmware update website of the SP3 doesn't show any files since a couple of days. Why is that? And what is the latest firmware version (mine is 2012.05e)?
Hi
Yes 5e is the latest. Not sure why no files - I will ask.
james
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Well, I got Stereophile today. Some things my attention were drawn to (in addition to the sentence James quoted):
the bottom line was that my Connecticut rig had never sounded better than when the Bryston was running things.'- 'I think the Bryston SP-3's analog performance is the secret sauce of this wonderful pre-pro - its qualities shone through regardless of whether I used digital or analog sources, and whether or not they were processed.
AND ALL THIS WITH NO ROOM CORRECTION - the sky is falling!!!! :lol:
james
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IP address changes.
The IP address of my SP 3.0 has changed three times, last three 117, 123, 142. Had a power outage yesterday and after power was restored, MPod and MPad wouldn't connect. iP had changed from 123 to 142. I attempted to reproduce what I thought had caused the change by turning SP 3 power off and then unplugging the power cord. After powering up again, the IP address was unchanged at 142. So any ideas about what might cause the SP 3 to change addresses?
Steve
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IP address changes.
The IP address of my SP 3.0 has changed three times, last three 117, 123, 142. Had a power outage yesterday and after power was restored, MPod and MPad wouldn't connect. iP had changed from 123 to 142. I attempted to reproduce what I thought had caused the change by turning SP 3 power off and then unplugging the power cord. After powering up again, the IP address was unchanged at 142. So any ideas about what might cause the SP 3 to change addresses?
Steve
Hi Steve - I will ask engineering.
james
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Unrelated to the IP address change, but strange. I turned on the SP 3 (zone) with my IPhone while outside and it came on at max(?) volume and blew my KEF Ventura outdoor speakers.
Steve
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The router (the box that connect to your outside phone or satellite receiver outlet) acts as the DHCP server for the entire network in your house. DHCP server assigns the IP addresses when starts up (power up) to all your devices on the network, typically in the ascending order beginning with 100 or some other base. For example if your network is defined as router=192.168.2.1 (the "Server"), then it will try to assign 192.168.2.100, ...101, ...102 etc for all the other devices called "clients".
It usually remember the pre-existing devices IPs using those devices MAC addresses (MAC address is a sort of a serial number, it's not the same as IP addr) from before power outage, and will try to assign the same IPs to the same devices but it cannot always do that. For example if you added or taken out a device then it may have to renumber the other devices. It depends on the router and it also depends whether the router memory may have been zeroed (reset or corrupt) during the power outage. In my house I had to change routers every now and then especially after a lighting storm because they just blow (hardware breaks) and failed to work normally or work sort of but not quite the same as before. Especially their WiFi wireless part is vulnerable, but also long Ethernet cables tend to have high voltage spikes propagating during storms, especially if the wiring is vertical between floors. I have used probably 5 different routers in the last 10 years because they all would break sooner or later.
If your network has a working DHCP server then it does not really matter what IP is assigned to the SP3 because you can always call it by the Netbios name, that is http://sp3-serialnumber
You have a choice of setting the SP3 also not to accept the IP served to it by the router, by setting the MISC-->DHCP option to Static. Then set the IP address in the same screen to what it is supposed to be for example 192.168.2.123
Then it will always be 123 but you probably won't be able to address it by the SP3 serial number but you would have to type http://192.168.2.123
A prefered method of configuring the home LAN is to set the router as the DHCP Server, and enable all other devices and PC's on the network to use DHCP Client or just "DHCP", rather than using the Static IP method. Most devices and PC's use the term "DHCP" and "DHCP Client" interchangeably, means the same thing. The Static IP method is the rescue measure of the last resort because it can lead to IP clash with multiple devices and confusion, when you add new devices, but it is also the one method which will always work.
Stan
Bryston
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That explains what seems be going on with changing IP address, loss of power to cable modem and router.
Steve
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Hi
I need some advice please just bought the sp3 and i have come across a slight problem i have connected the sp3 to my mcintosh mc205 via the xlr balanced input /output connections i.e Front L/R Centre- Back L As i had only 4 XLR Leads at the present awaiting the 5th one to arrive on order i connected the 5th Back R via Normal Coaxial RCA i Then Noticed i was getting sound from all The speakers connected through XLR but nothing through the One connected via RCA so I canged the Lead still nothing i then swappted the Back L/R with the xlr and the rca and the speakers changed to produce sound from everything connected through xlr but not RCA i tried all the speakers and nothing through RCS the manuals just says you can connect power pre amp through XLR or RCA anybody any idea what i am doing wrong
Thanks
Simon
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Hi
I need some advice please just bought the sp3 and i have come across a slight problem i have connected the sp3 to my mcintosh mc205 via the xlr balanced input /output connections i.e Front L/R Centre- Back L As i had only 4 XLR Leads at the present awaiting the 5th one to arrive on order i connected the 5th Back R via Normal Coaxial RCA i Then Noticed i was getting sound from all The speakers connected through XLR but nothing through the One connected via RCA so I canged the Lead still nothing i then swappted the Back L/R with the xlr and the rca and the speakers changed to produce sound from everything connected through xlr but not RCA i tried all the speakers and nothing through RCS the manuals just says you can connect power pre amp through XLR or RCA anybody any idea what i am doing wrong
Thanks
Simon
Is this the simon I sold the denon combo too, you have gone up in the world mate.. Do you still own the denon equipment. You change your equipment like I change my socks lol.. :lol:
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Hi Folks,
I have the PDF of the Stereophile review Part 1 and Part 2. If you want a copy email me at jamestanner@bryston.com
It's 2MB
james
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Hi Folks,
I have the PDF of the Stereophile review Part 1 and Part 2. If you want a copy email me at jamestanner@bryston.com
It's 2MB
james
Thanks very much James for sending along. :thumb:
James - did Kal make the decision to buy an SP3, which I think would be the highest complement?
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Hi Folks,
Please see link below to the STEREOPHILE review of the Bryston SP-3 Surround Processor – it includes Parts 1 and 2 in a single PDF.
It’s a ‘corker’ as the Brits would say!!!!
ftp://ftp.bryston.com/pub/reviews/SP3_Review%20.pdf
james
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Great review ... :thumb:
I think my wallet just got lighter.
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Congrats to you and your team!
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After reading the review I'm going to have a really hard time waiting the remaining few days before mine is delivered. This is going to be Christmas in June! :D
Ted
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Hi Folks,
I do not speak German but I am told this video review of the SP-3 is outstanding. :thumb: I am going to try and get an English version done as well.
http://www.takeoffmedia.de/journalismus/testberichte-heimkino-hardware/elektronik/bryston-sp3.html
james
PS - the reviewer purchased 2 units for himself :thumb:
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Hi James,
We just watched the video review one hour ago and I can tell you that review is excellent.
In short:
Review is 30 minutes long and very, very detailed.
Conclusion of the review: best sounding surround preamp and one of the best sounding stereo preamp on the market.
Have nice day
Edvard
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James,
does the SP3 supports the ARC (Audio Return Channel)?
thanks,
al.
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James,
does the SP3 supports the ARC (Audio Return Channel)?
thanks,
al.
Not yet - looking at it .
james
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I plan on purchasing the SP-3 this week and had a few questions:
1) I know the unit does not process video, which is probably a plus. However, can the unit display the video format it is receiving (e.g. 1080p/24 36 bit)?
2) I plan on streaming music via coax from a Squeezebox Touch. The Touch has a 3rd party app which allows it to output 192/24 files. As you feed various resolutions to the Bryston (44/16 to 96/24 to 192/24, etc.) does the SP3 seamlessly lock onto all of the various formats? I recently had an Arcam AVR600 and although it sounded great, it had way too many bugs. One of the issues I experienced was a delay or click every time the file resolution changed and on occasion a complete inability to playback 96/24 files.
3) I use a program called Roomie Remote on the iPad to control my system. It is a great program and allows IP/IR/Serial control of equipment. Currently, they only list support for IR control of the SP3. What would I have to provide them to be able to control the SP3 via IP?
4) Does the SP3 do a good job of rejecting jitter? I plan on selling my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 which is a great sounding DAC/digital preamp. I figure if I am paying for a unit such as the SP3, it would be a waste not to take advantage of its DACs. However, I do not want to give up 2 channel performance either.
Thanks
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Firstly, the purchasing of the SP3 was one of THE best bits of kit I have ever bought, along with all the components that I now have.
To answer your questions:
1) Correct the SP3 does not do any video formatting, it merely passes through the video signal to your screen so if your DVD/BR player can display this information then this will be displayed.
2) All formats are excepted by the SP3. I used to have the AV888 so fully understand your (Arcams) issues, however, I can fully reassure you that I have never had a pop, crackle or any other bugs from the SP3. The only issue that I did experience was with the RS232 on/off code which was very quickly resolved.
As a side note if you are buying the SP3 the other upgrade I would higly recommend is the purchase of the Bryston BDP1. The BDP will outstrip your Squeezebox by miles and most definitely complement the SP3 in term of quality of audio presentation. Both units together is an awesome system that can be controlled via your network.
3) You can control the SP3 with the IP address of the unit - this allows you to do everything that you can do from the front of the display. If you need the RS232 codes then I can send these to you.
4) The SP3 is at the top of league when in comes to jitter elimination. With regard to 2 channel it by far exceeds the AV888 which has better DACs than the AV600, thus you will most definitely not be going backwards in this area. The SP3 is as good as the BP26 but with multichannel ability to the same high standard!
Looking forward to your feedback on the SP3.... :thumb:
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SP3 got high praise from Stereophile reviewer Kal-(whose reviews I trust and he is typically circumspect on so-so reviews/products)- he was wowed by SP3. I am not going to repeat what he found but you can check it out
Link is here http://bryston.com/PDF/reviews/2012_04_Review_Stereophile.pdf
I hope to buy this in a few months.
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Firstly, the purchasing of the SP3 was one of THE best bits of kit I have ever bought, along with all the components that I now have.
To answer your questions:
1) Correct the SP3 does not do any video formatting, it merely passes through the video signal to your screen so if your DVD/BR player can display this information then this will be displayed.
2) All formats are excepted by the SP3. I used to have the AV888 so fully understand your (Arcams) issues, however, I can fully reassure you that I have never had a pop, crackle or any other bugs from the SP3. The only issue that I did experience was with the RS232 on/off code which was very quickly resolved.
As a side note if you are buying the SP3 the other upgrade I would higly recommend is the purchase of the Bryston BDP1. The BDP will outstrip your Squeezebox by miles and most definitely complement the SP3 in term of quality of audio presentation. Both units together is an awesome system that can be controlled via your network.
3) You can control the SP3 with the IP address of the unit - this allows you to do everything that you can do from the front of the display. If you need the RS232 codes then I can send these to you.
4) The SP3 is at the top of league when in comes to jitter elimination. With regard to 2 channel it by far exceeds the AV888 which has better DACs than the AV600, thus you will most definitely not be going backwards in this area. The SP3 is as good as the BP26 but with multichannel ability to the same high standard!
Looking forward to your feedback on the SP3.... :thumb:
Thank you for the reply.
1) I'm not sure if I completely understand your answer. I assume you are stating I could rely on my blu-ray player for the information. I have a Sony BDP-S790 and when I hit display, it provides the video format. However, not all of my components have this feature. In the manual, there is serial code listed called VFMT with the following description:
Query Video Input VFMTxx Format QS Query, returns video timing and format code xx in hex. *** See helpvfmt.txt document. ***
I was wondering if this provides the video format information on the SP3 display.
2) I would love to purchase the BDP-1, but not sure if I can swing it at the same time as the SP-3. It would be nice if the BDP-1 could access my network as opposed to a USB drive since it is much easier to distribute new files over a network. Also, the Logitech Media Server software is great. From what I have seen, I am not sure if MPaD can properly sort artists, etc. For example, does MPaD sort Neil Young under Neil or Young?
3) Yes, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me the RS232 codes as I may go down that route.
4) Good to hear. To date, the best home theater units for two channel that I have ever owned were the EAD Ovation processor and the Arcam unit.
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akopperl,
1) The SP3 has no video processing at all therefore it cannot visually display the data on the TV/Projector. However, the SP3 display only does show what the input signal is and the output is; "In"" PCM 44k 2 ch, "Output" Stereo.
If your Sony BDP (or any other source equipment) can display this information then this will appear on the TV as the signal is passed directly through to the TV.
As an ex Arcam AV888 owner, I can understand where you are coming from however, the SP3 is fully programmable from the unit and also via the IP address and with such a simple interface it is very easy to set up. In my opinion, it is more logical than the Arcam setup page.
2) The BDP whilst playing music through a portable hard drive via the USB, it is still fully networkable. I rip my music via dbpoweramp and then just copy and paste from my computer music folder onto the HD whilst still connected to the BDP. Again, as like the SP3, the BDP has it own web page from which you can update, select music etc via the IPad using either the Bryston player or the MPod / Mpad app.
My understanding is that Bryston are hopefully going to produce an APP that controls both the SP3 and BDP under one one page and not two IP web pages.
With regard to ripping and sorting artists my name, once you understand how to set up the dbpoweramp cd naming, you can easily manage your music portfolio. If you want to change the folder name after the rip, change it.....it is like all other computer files you may wish to rename.
On initial set up once you have ripped your music collection onto your computer, connect a portable Hard drive to the computer, burn the music folder onto it, connect to the BDP, wait for the BDP to update - select music and play...very very simple to use.
3) If you PM me, I'll send you the folder.
4) The Bryston unit is at the very top of the league tables, I still highly rate the Arcam, but they are chalk and cheese (and in particular no damn clicks or thuds!)
Hopefully this make it a bit clearer.
I am positive that you will NOT be disappointed with the SP3 as an upgrade from the Arcam.
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akopperl,
1) The SP3 has no video processing at all therefore it cannot visually display the data on the TV/Projector. However, the SP3 display only does show what the input signal is and the output is; "In"" PCM 44k 2 ch, "Output" Stereo.
If your Sony BDP (or any other source equipment) can display this information then this will appear on the TV as the signal is passed directly through to the TV.
As an ex Arcam AV888 owner, I can understand where you are coming from however, the SP3 is fully programmable from the unit and also via the IP address and with such a simple interface it is very easy to set up. In my opinion, it is more logical than the Arcam setup page.
2) The BDP whilst playing music through a portable hard drive via the USB, it is still fully networkable. I rip my music via dbpoweramp and then just copy and paste from my computer music folder onto the HD whilst still connected to the BDP. Again, as like the SP3, the BDP has it own web page from which you can update, select music etc via the IPad using either the Bryston player or the MPod / Mpad app.
My understanding is that Bryston are hopefully going to produce an APP that controls both the SP3 and BDP under one one page and not two IP web pages.
With regard to ripping and sorting artists my name, once you understand how to set up the dbpoweramp cd naming, you can easily manage your music portfolio. If you want to change the folder name after the rip, change it.....it is like all other computer files you may wish to rename.
On initial set up once you have ripped your music collection onto your computer, connect a portable Hard drive to the computer, burn the music folder onto it, connect to the BDP, wait for the BDP to update - select music and play...very very simple to use.
3) If you PM me, I'll send you the folder.
4) The Bryston unit is at the very top of the league tables, I still highly rate the Arcam, but they are chalk and cheese (and in particular no damn clicks or thuds!)
Hopefully this make it a bit clearer.
I am positive that you will NOT be disappointed with the SP3 as an upgrade from the Arcam.
Thanks again
Regarding point 1 - I did not mean to display the video format on the TV/Projector screen. I meant on the front display of the SP3. Your example, was for the audio format, which I have seen in pictures of the unit. I was curious if it could display the corresponding video format data on the front display.
Can you rename the inputs on the SP3? I don't see it listed in the Menu Tree in the manual. If so, how many characters can you use?
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Thanks Guys for answering 'akopperl's' questions -you guys are better at this than me :duh:
Anyway it just brings to mind the point that the SP-3 was designed with sound quality first and foremost and can not be compared with products that are designed with feature first preferences.
james
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In response, yes the screen will show "HD DTS MA" on the units screen. Whats more, the SP3 will automatically select the best input and output that signal.
With regard re-naming the inputs no, if you are thinking along the lines of the Arcam system.
On the digital sources you can select SPD1-3 or OPT1-3 via the system setup, except on the HDMI input. For example my Veloydne DD15 is plugged in via RCA cables in the Tuner input, but I cannot rename it Velodyne. I did think that before the purchase that this would be an minor setback, but to be honest, I don's miss this function and as James states, the sound quality is foremost over features...
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"the RS232 codes as I may go down that route"
******
I was also thinking about going to RS232 control until I got the SP3. Control via my network with I-Pad and I-Phone was very easy to set up and having to use two separate apps for SP3 and BDP-1 is only slightly inconvenient.
Steve
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"the RS232 codes as I may go down that route"
******
I was also thinking about going to RS232 control until I got the SP3. Control via my network with I-Pad and I-Phone was very easy to set up and having to use two separate apps for SP3 and BDP-1 is only slightly inconvenient.
Steve
I use the RS232 codes with my Nevo S70 remote, but equally use the Ipad but to a lesser extent as the Nevo does it all....
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I use the RS232 codes with my Nevo S70 remote, but equally use the Ipad but to a lesser extent as the Nevo does it all....
My major control issue was outside/patio/pool area. Before I upgraded from SP1.7 to SP3, I tried various RF and IR solutions with limit success. The SP3 "zone" controlled via network is quite simple.
Steve
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Control via my network with I-Pad and I-Phone was very easy to set up and having to use two separate apps for SP3 and BDP-1 is only slightly inconvenient.
James, there was some talk about a combined SP3/BDP1 iPad app, is this still on the cards, it would be fabulous?
Cheers
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James, there was some talk about a combined SP3/BDP1 iPad app, is this still on the cards, it would be fabulous?
Cheers
Yes we are still looking at that.
James
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Does anyone have first hand experience comparing the SP3 with the Bel Canto Pre 6 surround preamp? I have the latter and really like it but always looking to take things to the next level.
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DATE: July 2012
Hello James
I have just bought a Bryston BDP1 Player and SP3 Processor combination.
The sound is Scary!!! I am in a state of disbelief.
I keep setting it tasks to see if it’s as good as my previous system whether it be vinyl through Phono amp to CD – (yeah I know but allow me some indulgence to my personal favourite SACD and DVD audio).
Wow it just does it simply no fuss which throws you a little because on the previous top of the range Onkyo you had all these settings to play with, With the Bryson SP-3 it just does it and boy does it do it! Can I temp you James to throw on Band on the run DVD audio and just try and take that smile of your face.
And of course my new little friend The BDP1 Digital Player is sounding as good if not better than the others I have mentioned here. just getting to grips with my new world FLAC Lossless 44khz 24/96 once I get comfortable with these new concepts I will be one happy bunny rabbit
Keep up the Good Work
Simon
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Yes we are still looking at that.
James
Excellent news, fingers crossed :thumb:
Cheers
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I've been the proud owner of an SP3 for two weeks now.
During that time I've checked it out using the HDMI, SPIDF, balanced and 7.1 inputs as well as sampling the various output modes. My conclusion is that there is no way to make the SP3 sound bad. Material that wasn't engineered very well sounds good and well engineering material sounds fabulous.
The sound stage is wide and has depth. The detail the SP3 pulls out of a recording is eerie. I'm hearing detail and nuance in music I've never heard before regardless of the format. But the biggest revelation is the fact the SP3 can produce a clean, clear sound at levels beyond live. During my testing I decided to see how high I could run the volume before the sound became harsh or muddy. I never got there. I turned up the volume and all the SP3 did was pump out more and more clean, clear and detailed sound. I ended stopping because I knew the volume was too high to be safe not because the sound became harsh and unbearable to hear. I had absolutely no idea my 9BSST could muster up that much output if fed a truly clean signal. The next time I try this I'm going to get out my sound level meter and measure the output level to see how high it was at.
One thing I did uncover in my testing not directly related to the SP3 is that you can't always trust the specs that manufacturers publish. I have some digital material recorded at 24/192 and I was anxious to try it out with the SP3. However, I still don't know what it sounds like played at the full rate and converted by the SP3. It turns out that my disc player while capable of reading and playing the discs won't pass it through digitally at full rate. It down converts the output to 24/96 on both HDMI and SPDIF. The manual claims 24/192 capability but buried in the pages is the chart showing what happens to the digital output. That got me riled up because it isn't an inexpensive piece and yet they cut corners. Basically, I didn't get what I thought I was paying for. So, caveat emptor when buying some equipment. Just because they charge a bundle doesn't mean you get good value for the money.
Fortunately, that isn't the case with Bryston. Yes, the SP3 is up there, but you very definitely get what you've paid for and then some. Stellar job on SP3, James and company.
Ted
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I've been the proud owner of an SP3 for two weeks now.
During that time I've checked it out using the HDMI, SPIDF, balanced and 7.1 inputs as well as sampling the various output modes. My conclusion is that there is no way to make the SP3 sound bad. Material that wasn't engineered very well sounds good and well engineering material sounds fabulous.
The sound stage is wide and has depth. The detail the SP3 pulls out of a recording is eerie. I'm hearing detail and nuance in music I've never heard before regardless of the format. But the biggest revelation is the fact the SP3 can produce a clean, clear sound at levels beyond live. During my testing I decided to see how high I could run the volume before the sound became harsh or muddy. I never got there. I turned up the volume and all the SP3 did was pump out more and more clean, clear and detailed sound. I ended stopping because I knew the volume was too high to be safe not because the sound became harsh and unbearable to hear. I had absolutely no idea my 9BSST could muster up that much output if fed a truly clean signal. The next time I try this I'm going to get out my sound level meter and measure the output level to see how high it was at.
One thing I did uncover in my testing not directly related to the SP3 is that you can't always trust the specs that manufacturers publish. I have some digital material recorded at 24/192 and I was anxious to try it out with the SP3. However, I still don't know what it sounds like played at the full rate and converted by the SP3. It turns out that my disc player while capable of reading and playing the discs won't pass it through digitally at full rate. It down converts the output to 24/96 on both HDMI and SPDIF. The manual claims 24/192 capability but buried in the pages is the chart showing what happens to the digital output. That got me riled up because it isn't an inexpensive piece and yet they cut corners. Basically, I didn't get what I thought I was paying for. So, caveat emptor when buying some equipment. Just because they charge a bundle doesn't mean you get good value for the money.
Fortunately, that isn't the case with Bryston. Yes, the SP3 is up there, but you very definitely get what you've paid for and then some. Stellar job on SP3, James and company.
Ted
Thanks Ted much appreciated - will pass this along.
james
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Hi Folks,
I was just informed that we have another great review coming on the Bryston SP-3 Processor in Widescreen Review Magazine in the USA. In keeping with our main goal of excellent audio either Stereo or Surround here is a sneak peak for you.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65866)
"There had better be some reason to spend this kind of money on a preamplifier/processor ($9500) when processors as good as Cary’s Cinema 12, AudioControl’s Maestro M3, and Anthem’s D2v are available for $5,000 to $7,500. For me it was the SP3’s performance as a high-end analog stereo preamplifier with optional digital processing. When I listen to high quality analog sources, there are times when I want completely untouched analog sound and other times when I want something different… like having the music converted to 7.1 channels with DTS Neo:6 Music mode. Provided I make all the right setup choices, I can get exactly that from the SP3. I had not encountered a preamplifier/processor that could stand alone as a superb analog stereo preamplifier until the SP3. My oldish but still amazingly excellent-sounding analog stereo preamplifier (Belles/Power Modules 28A solid state) always sounds a bit better than the best surround processors when listening to analog sources. But the SP3 is the first surround sound processor that can hold its own, sound quality-wise, with the venerable 28A preamplifier.
The neutral character of the SP3 is my idea of perfect performance in an audio component in spite of the lurid prose often spilled on very inaccurate audio products by too many “reviewers” who think $20,000 is “reasonable” for a stereo preamplifier. The very idea of spending $10,000 or more on a preamplifier with such identifiable characteristics (distortions), is just creepy to me. Giving up a high quality (and neutral-sounding) analog stereo preamplifier for high quality analog sources and using a surround processor for both digital and analog sources isn’t something I would have considered before hearing the SP3. I feel the Belles/Power Modules 28A preamplifier still outperforms the other preamp/processors… but ‘not’ the SP3. The 28A and SP3 don’t sound identical, but I’d say they are on essentially the same plane."
Doug Blackburn
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Hi James,
I've just spent the evening revisiting my record collection.
I hooked up my Gyro + TechnoArm + AT33PTG + PS Audio GCPH phono stage, and connected it to the SP3 using balanced cable to Bal2 input and 2 Ch ByPass.
A bloody amazing, shed loads of detail and dynamics and sound stage, but vanishingly low surface noise - how is this possible?
This is the same rig I used with the SP1.7, and although it sounded good then it was nothing like as good as it is using the SP3.
The SP3 is one amazing bit of kit, a true all rounder, and delivers top results from all sources.
Only one problem now - I've got to buy more vinyl!
Regards
Richard
-
Hi Folks,
German SP3 VIDEO review translated to English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7BBG2vlQs8
james
-
Hi Folks,
Received today a PDF of a review on the SP3 from WIDESCREEN REVIEW MAGAZINE by Doug Blackburn.
Again FIVE ***** (STARS) for sound in both Stereo and Surround!!!
Email me at jamestanner@bryston.com if you wish a copy.
james
-
Hi Folks,
German SP3 VIDEO review translated to English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7BBG2vlQs8
james
Good review, I get the impression he is not just hamming the SP3 up. He's truly excited and enthusiatic about the sound quality the SP3 exhibits.
-
...yes, he IS excited :thumb:
al.
-
James,
I was going to change my speakers to the Brystons, but my dealer suggested I
would get better bang for my buck by replacing my Integra 80.3 with the SP3.
SO a few questions:
Would i get better sound by cabling my BDP-1 directly into the SP3 with AES, or
have the BDP-1 go through the BDA-1 into the SP3. Has anyone tested this.
Also do you ever plan on having the USB on the SP3 capable of reading FLAC files
directly from a portable hard drive.
What are the delivery times on the SP3(silver), from order date.
-
James,
I was going to change my speakers to the Brystons, but my dealer suggested I
would get better bang for my buck by replacing my Integra 80.3 with the SP3.
SO a few questions:
Would i get better sound by cabling my BDP-1 directly into the SP3 with AES, or
have the BDP-1 go through the BDA-1 into the SP3. Has anyone tested this.
Also do you ever plan on having the USB on the SP3 capable of reading FLAC files
directly from a portable hard drive.
What are the delivery times on the SP3(silver), from order date.
Hi
The DACs in the SP-3 are the same as the BDA so that would be equal quality.
The USB is a Client and your computer is a Host and never the twain shall meet.
SP 3 is about 3 weeks from order.
James
-
Can someone suggest a good spl meter,
to help dial in the levels on the SP3.
-
I have one of these:
http://galaxyaudio.com/CM140.php
The less expensive Radio Shack meter may be all that you need.
Steve
-
If you have a Smartphone and want to go cheap route, Studio Six Digital has an SPL Meter App (have it on my iPhone). I think it was free and I paid the $0.99 to get no ads. I have not compared it to the analog meter that I have from Radio Shack but it looks a lot like it on the screen. I also have their RTA Lite App and it's not bad. I did compare it a bit to my RTA at someone's house last week and it's decent. As can be expected, the microphone does not have the same response in the lower octaves as a real RTA calibrated one, but neither does the Radio Shack analog meter. Rives Audio makes a test disc to compensate for the microphone in the Radio Shack. I think it is $21.
-
From: Jürgen Springmann
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:05 AM
To: jamestanner@bryston.com
Subject: SP3, BDP-1 (SN 842), BDA-1 (SN 1574)
Dear James,
I recently bought a SP3, a BDP-1 and the BDA-1 from the dealer Hifi-Concept in Munich.
I can´t explain you how satisfied I am with your products. I love the sound and the quality of your products.
For controlling the BDP-1 I use my iPad with the MPad app and the Bryston-Max web app. I love the Bryston-Max app because it is easy to handle and it displays cover art embedded in my AIFF-Files. There are a few things that could be improved, but I like Max so far.
Jurgen
-
"I recently bought a SP3, a BDP-1 and the BDA-1 from the dealer Hifi-Concept in Munich. "
********
I have the same components but bought the BDA/BDP combo many months before release of SP3. For a new buyer does it make sense to add a BDA to the SP3/BDP combo?
"The DACs in the SP-3 are the same as the BDA so that would be equal quality."
Steve
-
For a new buyer does it make sense to add a BDA to the SP3/BDP combo?
Not only would I say no, but If I currently owned both an SP3 and a BDA-1, I would sell the BDA-1.
Steve
-
Would I be able to hook up my current SSP Pre outs to the 7.1 channel In inputs and use 7.1 Bypass
I realize I would have to set the SP 3's volume level to unity gain.
-
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-3 Review in The Inner Ear Magazine
DATE: September 2012
Hi Folks
Please see link below regarding a new review on the Bryston SP-3 Preamp/Processor.
The reviewer is a professional sound engineer who has won many awards for his work in Movies and TV sound.
www.innerearmag.com/reviews/accessories/Bryston_SP3.shtml
james
-
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP-3 Review in The Inner Ear Magazine
DATE: September 2012
Hi Folks
Please see link below regarding a new review on the Bryston SP-3 Preamp/Processor.
The reviewer is a professional sound engineer who has won many awards for his work in Movies and TV sound.
www.innerearmag.com/reviews/accessories/Bryston_SP3.shtml
james
Wow, james another great review. I love the fact he used films HE had done the music/score for to test it out, that is very cool, he should afterall know how he wanted them to sound.
Cheers
PS have there been any software updates for the SP3, I haven't notced any for awhile?
-
Awesome review! But we already knew all those things 8)
I would also like to know if there is any new firmware and if there are any news on an iPad controller app?
Thanks.
-
Hi
Current software is 5e so nothing since then. Working on new version now.
James
-
What will the new software change, update or fix?
-
What will the new software change, update or fix?
Some housekeeping and faster switch times.
James
-
Hi
Current software is 5e so nothing since then. Working on new version now.
James
Thanks James.
Cheers
-
Case:
HDMI into SP3, from there to the flatscreen.
I want the video to go to the flatscreen and the audio via the SP3 and the main amplifiers only to the speakers.
Problem: Not only video goes to the flatscreen, but also the audio signal. So I always have to cancel the sound of the flatscreen.
But - quote from the manual (p. 4):
'The audio content will be processed through the SP3’s DSP but the video content will simply be passed through to the two (parallel) HDMI outputs.'
question:
Do I read the quote wrong or do I do something else wrong?
Jürgen
-
Case:
HDMI into SP3, from there to the flatscreen.
I want the video to go to the flatscreen and the audio via the SP3 and the main amplifiers only to the speakers.
Problem: Not only video goes to the flatscreen, but also the audio signal. So I always have to cancel the sound of the flatscreen.
But - quote from the manual (p. 4):
'The audio content will be processed through the SP3’s DSP but the video content will simply be passed through to the two (parallel) HDMI outputs.'
question:
Do I read the quote wrong or do I do something else wrong?
Jürgen
Hi Jurgen
Yes the Audio and Video always stay 'together' even if it is just passing through. We are working on a new feature in software called a "Sticky" where you will be able to watch one program but listen to another.
james
-
We are working on a new feature in software called a "Sticky" where you will be able to watch one program but listen to another.
james
James, can I add a vote for this, it would be an excellent feature, which I used to use on my old processor, such that I could have music coming through say Bal1 whilst watching the cricket in the background coming from the satellite box in HDMI 1
:thumb: :thumb:
Cheers
-
Hi Jurgen
Yes the Audio and Video always stay 'together' even if it is just passing through. We are working on a new feature in software called a "Sticky" where you will be able to watch one program but listen to another.
james
Hi James,
2 x thanks.
Jürgen
-
Hi Jurgen
Yes the Audio and Video always stay 'together' even if it is just passing through. We are working on a new feature in software called a "Sticky" where you will be able to watch one program but listen to another.
james
I would LOVE this feature, please! We frequently like to watch something (like a game) on the screen but play music instead.
-
Is there still a trade in program for the SP1.7 to a SP3? I thought I read about that somewhere. Thanks, Pete
-
Is there still a trade in program for the SP1.7 to a SP3? I thought I read about that somewhere. Thanks, Pete
Hi Pete,
It officially ended Sept 1 st but let me know if you go ahead and we can work something out.
james
-
From: Sound Video; Steve Herrala
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 7:56 AM
To: 'James Tanner'
Subject: Purchase Order from Sound Video
Hello James,
Note my address change on the PO. I was doing so much work up in the lakes region of northern MN I decided to move to my lake home and focus on my customers 2nd homes. Same fax and phone #'s as before. Here is an order for an SP3. Black, Blue LED, 17".
This processor is a KILLER unit.
I'm taking in a Class'e SP800 on trade. He listened to my demo. We compared.... Bryston wins. More open, more airy, more holographic. But other than that it was a tie! :)
Let me know the ETA.
Thanks!
Steve
-
Hi James,
What's the current wait time for the SP3 ?
17" Black - "default" :green: LEDs not the super duper "blue" :lol:
Also, I assume they are built to order and would ship with the current firmware 5e is it?
Thank you Sir.
P.S. See you Saturday at Audio One!
-
Hi James,
What's the current wait time for the SP3 ?
17" Black - "default" :green: LEDs not the super duper "blue" :lol:
Also, I assume they are built to order and would ship with the current firmware 5e is it?
Thank you Sir.
P.S. See you Saturday at Audio One!
Be about 2 weeks from order - they told me today we are 25 backordered.
James
-
Hi James,
When will you be updating the SP3 with the hardware changes you've announced for the future/soontobe BDA2? Im trying to figure out what my best upgrade path is from my current bda1/bdp1 setup.
Thanks,
Marius
-
Hi James,
When will you be updating the SP3 with the hardware changes you've announced for the future/soontobe BDA2? Im trying to figure out what my best upgrade path is from my current bda1/bdp1 setup.
Thanks,
Marius
It will be quite a while as we have to design the USB module.
james
-
Hi Folks - Review on the Bryston SP-3 Preamp/Processor and 9B-SST2 five channel amplifier combo coming in the December Issue of Home Theater Magazine :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69839)
james
-
It will be quite a while as we have to design the USB module.
james
James, will these be retro fit for existing owners or are you aiming at an SP4?
Cheers
-
James, will these be retro fit for existing owners or are you aiming at an SP4?
Cheers
Retro-fit
james
-
Retro-fit
james
Very interesting. Thank you.
Cheers
-
Hi James,
Do you mean the usb-module of the BUC-1?
that's good to hear, but in fact I was referring to the new 32bit processor you use in the BDA2. Will you redesign/retrofit the SP3 with that too? Or would that make a sp4...
Marius
It will be quite a while as we have to design the USB module.
james
-
Hi James,
Do you mean the usb-module of the BUC-1?
that's good to hear, but in fact I was referring to the new 32bit processor you use in the BDA2. Will you redesign/retrofit the SP3 with that too? Or would that make a sp4...
Marius
Yes I was referring to the USB module - 32 bit is a whole new product and I do not think the surround chips are going to go anywhere near that.
james
-
I asked, because i was considering to update the bda1 with the sp3.... since you updated the bda1 to a bda2, the sp3 would be 'inferior' dac to the bda2, and no viable upgrade path... or would i be mistaken? the 32 bit chips could not be incorporated in the surround board hardware?
Marius
Yes I was referring to the USB module - 32 bit is a whole new product and I do not think the surround chips are going to go anywhere near that.
james
-
I asked, because i was considering to update the bda1 with the sp3.... since you updated the bda1 to a bda2, the sp3 would be 'inferior' dac to the bda2, and no viable upgrade path... or would i be mistaken? the 32 bit chips could not be incorporated in the surround board hardware?
Marius
I would say the 32 BIT chips may become available eventually but the priority for the movie industry and the standard appears to be 48k/16 bit for most movies at this point and bluray music discs appear to be 96/24 bit.
james
-
Hi James,
Heard you were on a big deal with another big brand...
How things are going on ? 8)
-
Hi James,
Heard you were on a big deal with another big brand...
How things are going on ? 8)
What's the rumor?
James
-
Well, i heard JBL Synthesis had chosen your SP3 for their new pre/pro (Lexicon MP20 is definitively down), after a great audition !
It's been saying that they're working with you to implement their Quantum logic DSP inside the futur rebadged SP3...
I was wondering how much "tweaking" will they make ?
-
Well, i heard JBL Synthesis had chosen your SP3 for their new pre/pro (Lexicon MP20 is definitively down), after a great audition !
It's been saying that they're working with you to implement their Quantum logic DSP inside the futur rebadged SP3...
I was wondering how much "tweaking" will they make ?
If that was true, Bryston could offer the SP-3 with the HARMAN digital board as a SP-3EQ... :lol:
Cheers!
Markus
-
In fact my question on the "tweaking" side was going this way... i'm thinking about the EQ system developped by JBL : ARCOS...
If it could be implemented inside the SP3 (with the quantum DSP), that would become "a killer" preamp for me 8) :D
Anyway, we'll have to wait for JBL announcement to know more as Bryston won't probably be allowed to talk before.
Bryston could offer the SP-3EQ
Well i guess you will have to buy the JBL version, i don't see JBL letting Bryston sell their product under it's name... or James would have done a real ******* deal :thumb:
-
James/Chris,
I have just updated my SP3 firmware to the current, while it was updating there was a message on the screen saying something like "Incorrect EEPROM!" and then it continued. I lost all my settings (which I assume is normal) but now I cannot get my Optical in to work, I have to go and restore all the other settings, but any ideas?
S/N = 182 if that helps
Cheers
EDIT - looks like it was only speaker distances was lost, most of the rest I have checked remain, still no Opto though
-
James/Chris,
I have just updated my SP3 firmware to the current, while it was updating there was a message on the screen saying something like "Incorrect EEPROM!" and then it continued. I lost all my settings (which I assume is normal) but now I cannot get my Optical in to work, I have to go and restore all the other settings, but any ideas?
S/N = 182 if that helps
Cheers
EDIT - looks like it was only speaker distances was lost, most of the rest I have checked remain, still no Opto though
Hi,
1) Redefault all EEPROM by going to MISCELLANEOUS, scrolling down to the bottom (3 screens down), unlocking the hidden screen by pressing ZONE,DVD and TAPE (one at a time, in this order), then scroll further down to parameter called "DEFAULT EEPROM". Select "DOIT!" then press left key to exit menu. This will execute the defaulting procedure.
Re-insert your own configuration manually.
2) To re-enable Toslink output, go to SOURCE SETUP-->OTHER-->DIGI OUT change ZONEDAC to TOSLINK selection and exit menu.
-
James, it was the optical input that was not working, I pulled the power lead out of the back and re-started now all working.
Given everything is working and I have re-entered the speaker distances, is it worth defaulting the EEPROM or just leave it?
Thanks for your help.
-
James, it was the optical input that was not working, I pulled the power lead out of the back and re-started now all working.
Given everything is working and I have re-entered the speaker distances, is it worth defaulting the EEPROM or just leave it?
Thanks for your help.
Just leave it if all is OK.
james
-
Hi Folks - Review on the Bryston SP-3 Preamp/Processor and 9B-SST2 five channel amplifier combo coming in the December Issue of Home Theater Magazine."
Looking forward to this review as I am going from 2 channel to this Bryston multichannel setup. :thumb:
Mark
-
I've updated and I can see some of the new features but the status check via my laptop says: EEPR SourcePar not init
I can't access the secret menu to see or change the HDMI DLY or see the HDMI 'sticky'.
So frustrating. :scratch:
-
I suppose you have one of the first SP3. (Like me.)
Did you update to Fw version 2012.11?
Because version 2012.10c did show this information on my SP3, but not version 2012.11.
-
I suppose you have one of the first SP3. (Like me.)
Did you update to Fw version 2012.11?
Because version 2012.10c did show this information on my SP3, but not version 2012.11.
My SP3 is quite early sn <200 and I see the info with fw 2012.11
M.
-
My SP3 is now showing :
Error and status messages:
ETH bit error
EEPR SourcePar not init
Not sure what it means, but the unit still appears to be working...
-
My SP3 is now showing :
Error and status messages:
ETH bit error
EEPR SourcePar not init
Not sure what it means, but the unit still appears to be working...
Yeah, mine shows:
IntFlash reprogramed
Pic32 prog chksum OK
EEPROM GlobPar not init
EEPR SourcePar not init
EEPROM GlobPar bad bkp
Seems to be working well, much faster than before :thumb:
Cheers
-
Hi Folks
Do not worry about any of the messages - they mean something to Stan our SP3 programmer but nothing to the end user to concern yourself with.
James
-
I've updated and I can see some of the new features but the status check via my laptop says: EEPR SourcePar not init
I can't access the secret menu to see or change the HDMI DLY or see the HDMI 'sticky'.
So frustrating. :scratch:
For some reason mine flatly refused to accept the firmware update. I tried twice and it stayed stuck on f2012.05e. The catch was I was using Firefox as the browser to access the SP3 web page. So, for the heck of it I switched to using Internet Explorer and tried the upgrade again. This time it worked. So maybe there's something about the Firefox the upload process doesn't like? Anyway, it finally updated.
-
Hi Folks
Do not worry about any of the messages - they mean something to Stan our SP3 programmer but nothing to the end user to concern yourself with.
James
James,
OK, thank you for that, I will put my worry beads down now, sit back and enjoy.
Rich.
-
James,
OK, thank you for that, I will put my worry beads down now, sit back and enjoy.
Rich.
Ik think it's the best thing to do - unless something weird is happening.
-
For some reason mine flatly refused to accept the firmware update. I tried twice and it stayed stuck on f2012.05e. The catch was I was using Firefox as the browser to access the SP3 web page. So, for the heck of it I switched to using Internet Explorer and tried the upgrade again. This time it worked. So maybe there's something about the Firefox the upload process doesn't like? Anyway, it finally updated.
I had exactly the same problem a little while ago when updating my BDP-1, it just wouldn't work with Chrome, after a couple of hours of frustration I switched to Firefox and it worked 1st time, bizzare.
Is there a recommended web browser for doing Updates James?
-
I had exactly the same problem a little while ago when updating my BDP-1, it just wouldn't work with Chrome, after a couple of hours of frustration I switched to Firefox and it worked 1st time, bizzare.
Is there a recommended web browser for doing Updates James?
I generally use Chrome and Safari.
james
-
Hi All,
I am looking at purchasing / using the Demopad / Irule to control all my kit via the IPAD as my Nevo S70 keeps on crashing and is no longer supported as UEI went bust this year.
Firstly does anyone have any experience of this, be it good or bad and in particular related to Bryston and Oppo kit..
Also, can some one advise me if the SP3 can be controlled directly through the Ethernet port and if so, by what method, ie RS232 codes ..
Thank you in advance.
Rich.
-
Hi James,
It was nice to see you again at Audio One the other week...
As there will be an upgrade to the USB port in the near future to accept 24bit/192k bit streams. I thought to ask first the capabilities of the optical output port and hope it would be capable of 24bit/192k as well. Now, would it be possible to change the optical to a coaxial output or USB output port for digital PCM stream?
Ciao, Luigi
-
Hi James,
It was nice to see you again at Audio One the other week...
As there will be an upgrade to the USB port in the near future to accept 24bit/192k bit streams. I thought to ask first the capabilities of the optical output port and hope it would be capable of 24bit/192k as well. Now, would it be possible to change the optical to a coaxial output or USB output port for digital PCM stream?
Ciao, Luigi
Hi Luigi
Not sure i understand - are you asking if the Optical out can be changed to a USB Or Coax ? If so I do not think so because it would need a different backplate and different circuitry on the circuit board.
James
-
Hi Again,
What I am asking is if the SP3 optical output is the capable of 24b/192k for a PCM bit stream. Another question is if it can handle only 2 channels or more channels?
Therefore, if the USB is going to be upgraded in the near future, I would hope the optical output would be capable of 24b/192k as well. This would allow for PCM bit stream bypass opportunities....
Ciao, Luigi
-
Hi Again,
What I am asking is if the SP3 optical output is the capable of 24b/192k for a PCM bit stream. Another question is if it can handle only 2 channels or more channels?
Therefore, if the USB is going to be upgraded in the near future, I would hope the optical output would be capable of 24b/192k as well. This would allow for PCM bit stream bypass opportunities....
Ciao, Luigi
Ok got it - I do not think Optical will be updated.
james
-
Hi James,
Just for reference, what is present capability of the optical input and output ports? I know the Coaxial inputs are capable of 24B/192k as I have tried them and they work great... :thumb:
Ciao, Luigi
-
Hi James,
Just for reference, what is present capability of the optical input and output ports? I know the Coaxial inputs are capable of 24B/192k as I have tried them and they work great... :thumb:
Ciao, Luigi
Inputs 192/24-my Dune DVD player optical out can do this.
Outputs 48/16
James
-
James,
I am thinking at possible ways to improve my listening experience.
I currently have my BDP-1 hooked directly to the SP3, and it sounds
great. I like to be surrounded by the music and tend to listen in 5 channel
stereo mode.
I am looking at getting a BDA-2.
So my bdp-1 would go into the bda-2 and that would go into the balanced inputs
on the SP3.
I am trying to determine which modes on the SP3 would play my music using the BDA-2 DAC, instead of the DAC in the SP3.
I assume that would be the 2ch.bypass.
Is there any other modes, that would play in all speakers using the DBA-2 DAC's
-
James,
I am thinking at possible ways to improve my listening experience.
I currently have my BDP-1 hooked directly to the SP3, and it sounds
great. I like to be surrounded by the music and tend to listen in 5 channel
stereo mode.
I am looking at getting a BDA-2.
So my bdp-1 would go into the bda-2 and that would go into the balanced inputs
on the SP3.
I am trying to determine which modes on the SP3 would play my music using the BDA-2 DAC, instead of the DAC in the SP3.
I assume that would be the 2ch.bypass.
Is there any other modes, that would play in all speakers using the DBA-2 DAC's
Hi,
You got it! - the 2-channel balanced analog stereo bypass is what I use.
james
-
So any other selection will use the SP3 DAC's then... Correct
-
Well, i heard JBL Synthesis had chosen your SP3 for their new pre/pro (Lexicon MP20 is definitively down), after a great audition !
It's been saying that they're working with you to implement their Quantum logic DSP inside the futur rebadged SP3...
I was wondering how much "tweaking" will they make ?
Well, well, if this one hasn't some similarities with Bryston's SP-3... 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70849)
I found this picture of an JBL Synthesis SDP-45HD in a Facebook report about Cedia 2012.
That would be saying something, if Harman's luxury division preferred to adapt the Bryston instead of using an in-house/in-group design... wow! :thumb:
Cheers!
Markus
-
So any other selection will use the SP3 DAC's then... Correct
Yes or you could try other STEREO sources through the BDA-2.
james
-
Yes or you could try other STEREO sources through the BDA-2.
james
Which is what I do, all my 2ch go through the BDA1 then balanced into the SP3, bypass and they all sound wonderful, none as good as the BDP1 obviously :D
Cheers
-
I found this picture of an JBL Synthesis SDP-45HD in a Facebook report about Cedia 2012.
Well, i guess this is it 8)
We should hear/see things at the CES in january... i guess (!).
-
you guys are making me want to trade my classe ssp-800 for the sp-3
-
scb - No we are telling you to do it. No point living with regrets !!!!!
-
scb - No we are telling you to do it. No point living with regrets !!!!!
+1
It is nearly Xmas :icon_twisted:
-
i'm already looking to upgrade my amp, so my wallet really doesn't like you guys right now!
-
James,
Just tried to update the firmware from 2012.05e to 2012.11, but display shows:
SERIAL# 32
FIRMWARE f2011.89
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
P.S. Also, any news on that iPad app for SP3? 8)
-
James,
Just tried to update the firmware from 2012.05e to 2012.11, but display shows:
SERIAL# 32
FIRMWARE f2011.89
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
P.S. Also, any news on that iPad app for SP3? 8)
It appears it did not load the new firmware. Where are you located? Can you call Bryston? If so call and ask for Stan. - 18006328217
James
-
James,
Just tried to update the firmware from 2012.05e to 2012.11, but display shows:
SERIAL# 32
FIRMWARE f2011.89
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
P.S. Also, any news on that iPad app for SP3? 8)
Had the same issue. The firmware reverts to the factory default which at the time was the 2011 firmware (I have serial 36). Ended up having to reinstall 2012.05e and then reinstalling 2012.11 (and now 2012.12 is available).
Also, at the time, the EEPROM had been corrupt and had to be redefaulted. There is a new doc file on the ftp site that shows how to access the menu that allows this.
Assaf
-
How do you see when a new firmware is available.
I just see 2012.05e on the bryston site.
-
How do you see when a new firmware is available.
I just see 2012.05e on the bryston site.
I don't think James wants the ftp site published here, but the link is available from the help page on the SP3 web access page.
The 2012.12 version is available from the "current" directory under SP3 firmware.
-
Thank you James.
I spoke to Stan and reflashed to 2012.05e first and then to 2012.12 -- all good now.
I am in California.
So no iPad app for the SP3 yet...?
-
Thank you James.
I spoke to Stan and reflashed to 2012.05e first and then to 2012.12 -- all good now.
I am in California.
So no iPad app for the SP3 yet...?
Hi - Chris is currently working on it.
james
-
Hi - Chris is currently working on it.
james
Awesome! Thank you! :D
-
if anyone's selling an sp3 or wants to trade for a classe, let me know :)
-
my ps3 is up for sale if you are interested...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I don't think James wants the ftp site published here, but the link is available from the help page on the SP3 web access page.
The 2012.12 version is available from the "current" directory under SP3 firmware.
Got it. Thanks...
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my ps3 is up for sale if you are interested...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Like it :lol: For a split second there Rich I thought you'd lost your senses.
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Is firmware 2012.12 good to go? Has anyone upgraded without an error? Or might I experience problems if i try to upgrade? I have enough problems...
PS. Does "ipad" include Android tablets?
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I upgraded yesterday, it worked fine, no errors
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I upgraded yesterday, it worked fine, no errors
Me, too.
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Thanks for the replies.
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Hi guys,
I thought that I would update you on something that I learnt about the SP3 today.
You can now (?) change the LED display to turn off after a given time, but more importantly ALL the led's including the source lights. If you were not aware this is achieved via the System > Misc > Disp and the pressing either the surround mode buttons or the volume wheel.
If you did know, then hey, why didn't you tell us !
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From: Anthony Barsoom
Sent: December-06-12 10:17 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: Questions about SP3 and BDP-2
Hi James,
I wanted to thank you again for all the time you spent answering my upfront questions about the SP3 and BDP-2. I received the SP3 a couple weeks ago and have been thoroughly enjoying it.
The SP3 was an upgrade to my venerable Anthem AVM20, which was a piece that was highly regarded by the press and its owners when it was released 10+ years ago. The primary reasons why I upgraded the Anthem was to gain HDMI functionality and the processing of HD multichannel codecs.
I knew to expect at least equal sound quality from the SP3, but I truly was surprised by the very noticeable increase in clarity and the reduction of noise. Two things stood out. First was how good of a job the DAC did on a complex acoustic guitar track that I have. On all but the best systems, the notes are a jumbled mess, because the artist is so quick on the strings. On the SP3, it was clear and musical, which puts the SP3 in the same league as Boulder.
Secondly was the sound of silence. By that I mean, silent tracks were actually silent. This is true of movies, music, and even streaming radio.
I am so impressed by the increased performance of my system by the SP3, that I am even considering a second, two channel Bryston system for my office.
Thank you again for your customer service, and I look forward to receiving the BDP-2 and adding it to my system.
Sincerely,
Anthony Barsoom
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If you did know, then hey, why didn't you tell us !
I have known, but thought everyone else owning a SP3 knows that, so ...
And - It's a great feature!
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My link to "ftp link below" on the SP3 Help page does not work. Error message is "550 /pub/fw/sp3/: No such file or directory." As a retail customer, am I not supposed to be doing this? Or is there something else going on? Any info would be gratefully appreciated. Cheers.
Found it. a 1495 kb .bin file with a date of 11/29.
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COMING SOON:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71981)
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Any ideas why I cannot access the SP3 from my iPad - it appears I can only call the ip from my wired PC?
Appreciate any suggestions - Thanks.
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Any ideas why I cannot access the SP3 from my iPad - it appears I can only call the ip from my wired PC?
Appreciate any suggestions - Thanks.
Should work by typing the IP address into the Safari browser.
james
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Thanks for the quick response James.
The default IP 169.254.1.1 works only via IE on my wired PC to the router.
I try entering the above via Safari on my iPad and it tells me cannot open page because the server stopped responding.
:scratch:
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What is SP3 Rev 2.0?
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What is SP3 Rev 2.0?
When we make changes for whatever reasons we rename things using Rev numbers.
james
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When we make changes for whatever reasons we rename things using Rev numbers.
james
Out of interest James, do you have any details on the changes? My SP3 runs very hot, are you addressing issues like that?
Cheers
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Out of interest James, do you have any details on the changes? My SP3 runs very hot, are you addressing issues like that?
Cheers
I think the SP3 is hot due to the 24V and 15V analog voltage regulators which, unlike switching power supplies, tend to run really hot. Also, these regulators are heat sinked via the power supply chassis to the outer case, which therefore does get pretty hot.
It is hotter than the 9BSST but that has real aluminum heatsinks, and many of them....
James can correct me, but I think the changes are mainly in some of the connectors and the Ethernet part of the IO daughter card, but since the USB chip is still the PCM2707 no 192/24 Asynchronous mode (yet).
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Out of interest James, do you have any details on the changes? My SP3 runs very hot, are you addressing issues like that?
Cheers
Yes the outside chassis is a heat sink so on the righthand side of the SP-3 it will run hot - not to worry it is normal.
james
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I think the SP3 is hot due to the 24V and 15V analog voltage regulators which, unlike switching power supplies, tend to run really hot. Also, these regulators are heat sinked via the power supply chassis to the outer case, which therefore does get pretty hot.
It is hotter than the 9BSST but that has real aluminum heatsinks, and many of them....
James can correct me, but I think the changes are mainly in some of the connectors and the Ethernet part of the IO daughter card, but since the USB chip is still the PCM2707 no 192/24 Asynchronous mode (yet).
Yes the revisions are just small changes made in the circuit boards for production purposes etc. There have not been any major changes to the USB section etc.
james
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The SP3 has three triggers?
I thought to have seen somewhere .... that a trigger could be attributed to a certain input, but can't see it now. Anyone?
My idea is to connect e.g. trigger one tot the amp for the front speakers; trigger two to the amp for the center and the surrounds and attribute trigger one to every input and trigger two only to the input of the the dvd/blu ray-player.
Is that possible?
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The SP3 has three triggers?
I thought to have seen somewhere .... that a trigger could be attributed to a certain input, but can't see it now. Anyone?
My idea is to connect e.g. trigger one tot the amp for the front speakers; trigger two to the amp for the center and the surrounds and attribute trigger one to every input and trigger two only to the input of the the dvd/blu ray-player.
Is that possible?
Indeed there are three trigger outputs.
As long as the SRC PARAM is set to Individual, you can assign different sets of triggers to different inputs (under source setup select Triggers).
If SRC PARAMS is set to global, trigger setup is shared by all sources.
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Uploaded 2012.12 firmware today. Went fine. Thanks Bryston. However, it seems that I have lost the use of my front panel Standby button! Pressing it does nothing. Any suggestions?
Thanks and regards.
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Uploaded 2012.12 firmware today. Went fine. Thanks Bryston. However, it seems that I have lost the use of my front panel Standby button! Pressing it does nothing. Any suggestions?
Thanks and regards.
Meaning it will not turn off?
james
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If it is on, pressing the button does not put it in standby. If it is in standby, pressing the button does turn it on (I just checked this). I can turn it off via the remote, or a Universal remote via the infrared remote input. Not a major issue, just a curious one. Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards.
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Indeed there are three trigger outputs.
As long as the SRC PARAM is set to Individual, you can assign different sets of triggers to different inputs (under source setup select Triggers).
If SRC PARAMS is set to global, trigger setup is shared by all sources.
Thanks.
I think that is the way I did it once.
But when I now go to SRC PARAM I see to its right: --- [just like this] and when I try to select something else (with the volume or with the arrows (left/right, up/down) the --- will stay.
How can that be?
I am using FW 2012.12.
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In the AV-forum Ritchief gave the answer:
'You are correct a trigger can be assigned per source, ie you only want your rear and ctre speaker amp to be turned off/on when watching a BR/DVD and not whilst listening to the CD.
How to do it:
Select the source, now using the menu buttons to go:
Say, DVD > now in the menu screen to go SOURCE SET UP > TRIGGERS, now select on / off.
This will now turn on the connect piece of kit every time you select this source (assuming of course you have connected the back of 12v triggers to the associated devices).
You can also set the delay timing of the source equipment being turned off/on by going to MENU SETUP > MISCELLANEOUS > TRIG DELAY, and selecting the timings from the menu.
For example, I have mine setup so that trigger one is activated when I select DVD & SAT so that the surround sound channel amp is turned off/on with a delay of 5 seconds.'
See also release notes for Fw 2012.11.
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Thanks.
I think that is the way I did it once.
But when I now go to SRC PARAM I see to its right: --- [just like this] and when I try to select something else (with the volume or with the arrows (left/right, up/down) the --- will stay.
How can that be?
I am using FW 2012.12.
Odd - I use same firmware but I can select SRC PARAM as Individual or Global (using the surround mode butttons). Since your follow on post shows you could assign different triggers to different sources you must be in individual source mode (in Global mode you'll have a G next to the source set up menu).
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Thanks.
I think that is the way I did it once.
But when I now go to SRC PARAM I see to its right: --- [just like this] and when I try to select something else (with the volume or with the arrows (left/right, up/down) the --- will stay.
How can that be?
I am using FW 2012.12.
I think this is because you source is not attached to an HDMI input.
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New Review on SP-3 Preamp/Processor and 9B SST2 Amplifier
ftp://ftp.bryston.com/pub/reviews/HT_SP39B.pdf
james
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72226)
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^^^^
That looks much better than the old version :thumb:
Is it going to be available soon?
Cheers
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^^^^
That looks much better than the old version :thumb:
Is it going to be available soon?
Cheers
Email me if you want to try the beta. jamestanner@bryston.com
james
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Email me if you want to try the beta. jamestanner@bryston.com
james
Done :D
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Email me if you want to try the beta. jamestanner@bryston.com
james
I really like this James. I have tried SP3-Max on both my normal Windows PC and my iPad3 both run no problem at all. The big volume arrows are very good on the iPad :thumb:
One thing that would be good is giving the user the ability to change/choose the granulatity of the volume steps, 3dB is quite course sometimes.
Cheers
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I think this is because you source is not attached to an HDMI input.
You're right.
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New Review on SP-3 Preamp/Processor and 9B SST2 Amplifier
ftp://ftp.bryston.com/pub/reviews/HT_SP39B.pdf
james
Thanks for the link, James. The reviewer mentions video clipping of BTB and WTW, which is the first review I have seen mention this. Is it an anomaly for their test unit, or is that found in all the SP3s? I have not yet plugged mine in so not been able to verify it myself.
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Thanks for the link, James. The reviewer mentions video clipping of BTB and WTW, which is the first review I have seen mention this. Is it an anomaly for their test unit, or is that found in all the SP3s? I have not yet plugged mine in so not been able to verify it myself.
Hi,
It is already fixed in units shipped since Sept this year (revision 2012 or later has it).
A software update is available for previous units.
An example of how the industry changes things on the fly :duh:
james
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Mine left the factory in early October, so hopefully should be fine. How do I check the revision number?
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Mine left the factory in early October, so hopefully should be fine. How do I check the revision number?
Just check the display when it starts and you will see the date of the software.
james
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Hi Folks,
Harry Pearson's has a new website called HPSoundings.com.
Here is a link below to a review of Bryston's SP3 Surround Sound Processor.
http://www.hpsoundings.com/2012/12/1428/
james
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From: Gary Stark
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 11:54 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: SP-3
Hi James
Let me just say again that the Bryston SP3 is an astounding piece of equipment.
Even my high-end cohorts were amazed at the difference in overall sound, separation, detail, etc., compared to anything else I've used including the Levinson 502.
Congratulations. I will seriously consider a Bryston amp next time I'm upgrading that part of my system (which currently is all Levinson).
Gary
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From: Gary Stark
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 11:54 AM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: SP-3
Hi James
Let me just say again that the Bryston SP3 is an astounding piece of equipment.
Even my high-end cohorts were amazed at the difference in overall sound, separation, detail, etc., compared to anything else I've used including the Levinson 502.
Congratulations. I will seriously consider a Bryston amp next time I'm upgrading that part of my system (which currently is all Levinson).
Gary
Nice to see people coming back to reality. :thumb:
Mark
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Happy New Year all....
I thought that I would provide some feedback on the recently released software that included the SP3 Max software...
My only three key issues are:
• The volume control jumping 3db at any one time,
• I have also experienced on occasions when loading the Max software onto the IPad the volume increasing without my intervention. This occurred over the Christmas period and my father-in-law who is slightly deaf experienced a sudden sound check from my MB2i PMC speakers that went from- 40db to +2db by the time I got the SP3 (Father-in-Law was not amused)!!!!
• The webpage doesn't fit centrally within the Ipad.
Other than those 3 items it works very well. Just need to the SP3 / BDP linked software to make it top dollar !!
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Here goes the new "JBL/LEXICON" processor... as shown here, well the SP3 rebadged 8)
http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/232
(http://www.jblsynthesis.com/images/prodphotos/prod_232_634928136359561917_SDP45_IMG_0597_Fixed_web.jpg)
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I guess the question is, why sell the SP3 under a 3rd party branding? To increase sales, exposure?
Not critical at all - just wondering
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I guess the question is, why sell the SP3 under a 3rd party branding? To increase sales, exposure?
Not critical at all - just wondering
I think it is a matter of economies of scale. Bryston invested a lot of engineering ressources into the SP-3 and the market for $10k processors through the Bryston distribution network is limited. By supplying JBL Synthesis with a modified SP-3, the product gets another distribution channel which otherwise Bryston wouldn't have access to. JBL Synthesis would otherwise have pushed the Harman pre/pro. Therefore I would expect most of the SDP-45 sales to be additional sales into JBL Synthesis systems, not canibalizing original Bryston sales. Maybe being chosen as the best pre/pro by JBL Synthesis might even direct more attention to the original Bryston product.
But time will tell, how successful the JBL Synthesis version SDP-45 will be and how Bryston SP-3 sales have been effected.
Cheers!
Markus
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Lexicon has been rebadging things for a bit. Oppo players (I believe before Oppo they based something off of a Pioneer), Bryston amps (old ST series), etc. Rebadging is not uncommon in the audio world
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Lexicon has been rebadging things for a bit. Oppo players (I believe before Oppo they based something off of a Pioneer), Bryston amps (old ST series), etc. Rebadging is not uncommon in the audio world
...as an example: Bryston's BIT have the Torus technology inside. so i guess Phil is right that rebadging is not uncommon in the audio world. but it would be indeed very interesting how the JBL SDP-45 will find its way to the customer's homes. some pics of JBL's processor innards, technical specs and reviews would be interesting, too. and at least the question what kind of changes (if any) have been made by JBL compared to the SP3.
al.
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I'm not sure James will be allowed to answer but i'm still wondering if there has been some modifications with this rebadged pre... ?
JBL was thinking on implementing their Logic Quantum DSP, has it been done, will it be ?
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Greetings, Bryston fans:
I'm strongly considering the SP3 for my 7.2 system and have a question on dual subwoofers. I've read the manual and this thread but need your help. I see from the manual and appendices that the SP3 has one subwoofer output; yet, I also see L-Aux and R-Aux outputs. Can I use the Aux outputs to achieve my three goals below? (From page 34-35, it appears that the LFE output is only active through the Sub output; can it be remapped to the Aux outputs, or would I need to use the Sub output and a Y connector to run two subs?)
I want to enable stereo (or dual) subwoofer outputs (my subs are connected with in-wall single-ended RCA cables that I cannot change):
1. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use stereo subs when playing two-channel audio?
2. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use stereo subs when playing multichannel audio?
3. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use the dual subs for LFE when playing multichannel movies?
FYI, here's my equipment:
Amplifiers
Bryston 6B-SST(C): front L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C): surround L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C): rear L/C/R
Speakers
Paradigm Reference Signature S8: fronts L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature C5: front C
Paradigm Reference Signature ADP: surrounds L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature S4: rears L/R
Velodyne DD15 subwoofers (2): subwoofers L/R
Digital Sources
Oppo BDP 105 (scheduled for purchase to replace BDP-83)
Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player (scheduled for purchase)
Bryston BDA-2 D/A Converter (scheduled for purchase)
Thanks very much, Bryston fans. I appreciate your help.
RJ
Napa Valley
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If you want to do 7.1 with 2 subs, seems like you would want to use an XLR to RCA adapter for the second sub. If you want true 7.2 or 2.2 (meaning separate L and R mix for the sub), you might want to add Bryston's 10B electronic crossover with the SP3 purchase. Set the mains to large and all other speakers to small.
I'm sure James though will give the right advise here.
Jim
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Greetings, Bryston fans:
I'm strongly considering the SP3 for my 7.2 system and have a question on dual subwoofers. I've read the manual and this thread but need your help. I see from the manual and appendices that the SP3 has one subwoofer output; yet, I also see L-Aux and R-Aux outputs. Can I use the Aux outputs to achieve my three goals below? (From page 34-35, it appears that the LFE output is only active through the Sub output; can it be remapped to the Aux outputs, or would I need to use the Sub output and a Y connector to run two subs?)
I want to enable stereo (or dual) subwoofer outputs (my subs are connected with in-wall single-ended RCA cables that I cannot change):
1. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use stereo subs when playing two-channel audio?
2. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use stereo subs when playing multichannel audio?
3. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use the dual subs for LFE when playing multichannel movies?
FYI, here's my equipment:
Amplifiers
Bryston 6B-SST(C): front L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C): surround L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C): rear L/C/R
Speakers
Paradigm Reference Signature S8: fronts L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature C5: front C
Paradigm Reference Signature ADP: surrounds L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature S4: rears L/R
Velodyne DD15 subwoofers (2): subwoofers L/R
Digital Sources
Oppo BDP 105 (scheduled for purchase to replace BDP-83)
Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player (scheduled for purchase)
Bryston BDA-2 D/A Converter (scheduled for purchase)
Thanks very much, Bryston fans. I appreciate your help.
RJ
Napa Valley
Hi
Yes you can use both the XLR Sub point one channel out as well as the RCA which will give you 2 subs with the point 1 channel.
Then you can configure the AUX left and right outs to be Stereo or an extra Center and Sub. As long as the 2 subs you use in stereo have gain gontrols and frequency you can feed them with the Aux out stereo feed.
james
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Hi
Yes you can use both the XLR Sub point one channel out as well as the RCA which will give you 2 subs with the point 1 channel.
Then you can configure the AUX left and right outs to be Stereo or an extra Center and Sub. As long as the 2 subs you use in stereo have gain gontrols and frequency you can feed them with the Aux out stereo feed.
james
I have been scratching my head to achieve something similar - i.e. 2 subs in stereo.
James - in the scenario you mention, how do you configure the SP3 to treat the main L+R speakers as small, and the Aux L+R as large?
If I understand this correctly, you can configure as follows:
- Set subwoofer to "None"
- Set L+R to "large"
- Set Aux to duplicate L+R
Now full range stereo and LFE are being redirected to both sets of L+R
- Use sub controls to adjust levels and cut-off
Problem seems to be that main L+R will continue to receive low frequencies as well? Have i missed something?
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I have been scratching my head to achieve something similar - i.e. 2 subs in stereo.
James - in the scenario you mention, how do you configure the SP3 to treat the main L+R speakers as small, and the Aux L+R as large?
If I understand this correctly, you can configure as follows:
- Set subwoofer to "None"
- Set L+R to "large"
- Set Aux to duplicate L+R
Now full range stereo and LFE are being redirected to both sets of L+R
- Use sub controls to adjust levels and cut-off
Problem seems to be that main L+R will continue to receive low frequencies as well? Have i missed something?
Hi
Email Stan at Bryston and he will help out - stanbleszynski@gmail.com
james
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Awaiting Stan's input - thanks for the contact, James. On re-reading the instruction manual, it states that the AUX L+R will downmix the audio from the other channels, so it is not a simple duplicate of main L+R. Additional factor to consider in this scenario.
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If you do manage to run two subs separately, whether Stereo or Mono, can you set their distances individually?
I prefer mono, but using a splitter as I am now for my two subs, I have to place both subs equidistant from my listening spot. This hampers my ability to use placement to neutralize room modes.
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Got my SP3 earlier this week and am stunned by the quality of music from AES XLR; however am massively underwhelmed by surround sound and can't help thinking there's something wrong.
I'm playing cd's from a transport at -20dB volume and everything is crystal clear and holographic; play a Blu ray via HDMI and I have to crank it up to -6dB and the sound is still comparatively thin and muddled, almost like some of it is missing; does this ring any bells for anyone ?
The reason I wondered if some of the audio is missing is because I don't have a separate sub as my mains are powered with built-in subs so go down to 15Hz territory; while I've configured those speakers as "large" and sub is "none" could it be that the 40Hz crossover is somehow still kicking in ? If so I can't find a way of explicitly turning the crossover off... though of course this could all be a red herring...
...having said that, music sounds awesome, it's just HDMI that's poor, and it affects sacd audio too, not just Blu (eg. Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" had lots of the sound missing).
Any thoughts / ideas ?
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Halloo, gents:
Thanks, skunark, ragg987, m00nhawk, and the illustrious Mr. T:
I too have emailed Stan from Bryston on running two subwoofers from the SP3, as my queries are likely slightly different from those already presented to him. When I receive his reply, I'll post it, with the hope that it will be useful to you.
In case my situation may be similar to yours and helpful to you, here's some info on my subs that I believe will let me use the Aux-L and Aux-R outputs, rather than the Sub jacks. Isn't it amazing how rereading the user manual will unearth key information forgotten several years after installing the gear? :wink:
My Velodyne DD15 subs prefer to use their digital built-in crossovers to accept a full-range signal; they can also use a filtered LFE/Sub output by defeating each sub's internal low-pass crossover. Also, to connect two or more subs, there is a daisy-chain option that presents multiple subs to the processor as one unit, and directs commands, such as volume, through the primary sub.
However, there seem to me to be significant advantages in running the subs separately, through the Aux-L and Aux-R outputs. First, as you've brought up, the distance between each sub and the primary listening spot is different. Also, the subs each have eight-band auto-EQ (with manual parametric tweaking), and this should result in a smoother response than I've been able to achieve with them in their present configuration.
By the way, this seems an apt venue to add to the accolades many of we users have offered James Tanner. Mr. T, you were a key factor in my purchasing three Bryston amps. Your expertise and generous help made my decisions easy. I can't wait to add the SP3, BDP-2, and BDA-2 to our system.
Game on,
RJ
Napa Valley, CA
(Sharks 7-0)
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Got my SP3 earlier this week and am stunned by the quality of music from AES XLR; however am massively underwhelmed by surround sound and can't help thinking there's something wrong.
I'm playing cd's from a transport at -20dB volume and everything is crystal clear and holographic; play a Blu ray via HDMI and I have to crank it up to -6dB and the sound is still comparatively thin and muddled, almost like some of it is missing; does this ring any bells for anyone ?
The reason I wondered if some of the audio is missing is because I don't have a separate sub as my mains are powered with built-in subs so go down to 15Hz territory; while I've configured those speakers as "large" and sub is "none" could it be that the 40Hz crossover is somehow still kicking in ? If so I can't find a way of explicitly turning the crossover off... though of course this could all be a red herring...
...having said that, music sounds awesome, it's just HDMI that's poor, and it affects sacd audio too, not just Blu (eg. Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" had lots of the sound missing).
Any thoughts / ideas ?
Have you tried turning on Xtra Bass to push the sub bass to the front pair?
Cheers
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Just in case, I decided to look into the firmware on the sp3 and found it was still on v2012.03 (!) so ran an upgrade, first to 2012.05e then to 2012.12 which was the latest version I could fine. Then added back all of the config settings and sacd via hdmi is working - hurrah !
Of course what has also since occurred to me is that, unlike dts-HD etc formats which are bitstream so decoded in the sp3, the sacd sound will be PCM so what I'm hearing is down to the quality of the Oppo...
Anyway, I'll check dvd's and blu's this evening, but I'm hoping that that the upgrade/re-configure approach will have done the trick.
While i was at it, I also upgraded my bdp1 to the latest (1.65 2013/1/30) and I have to say both upgrade mechanisms worked flawlessly; it's such a pleasure dealing with properly tested software/equipment after the experiences of bugs and frustrations from the likes of Arcam (av888), Cary (cinema12) and (but to a considerably lesser extent) Classe (ssp800).
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Have you tried turning on Xtra Bass to push the sub bass to the front pair?
Cheers
Thanks for the suggestion Arcam10 (nice name btw - I started out on Arcam gear many moons ago... still have an old alpha6/delta290 combo in the spare room) but I don't think that a couple of firmware upgrades and re-entering all the configs has done the trick.
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Thanks to Stan, I now understand the possibilities of using the Aux-L and Aux-R to drive my 2 subs in stereo mode. Bottom line, it is feasible but you cannot control the distance on this output (fixed at 11ms delay), and hence matching gain, setting crossover and phase will become something to do outside of the SP3 (i.e. using sub controls or an external device.
I have run a quick and dirty test, and it works. Matching and integration is now much more difficult, so the jury is out at the moment. Once I get time to tweak this (might be a few months - work / travel gets in the way), shall post my findings.
Thanks James and Stan for the support.
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Anyway, I'll check dvd's and blu's this evening, but I'm hoping that that the upgrade/re-configure approach will have done the trick.
Problem solved !
I had reason to turn everything off during the afternoon and when I came to check things this evening I found that only half of the config settings were still there. A bit of trial and error later and I discovered that settings are only saved if you press 'left' not just up one level of menu (as the instructions implied) but all the way to the top and beyond so that the screen blanks out for a moment (which, incidentally, would be more user friendly if it said at that point "saving settings").
Anyway, I reconfigured everything yet again, 'saved' it all, turned it all back off and then back on again, and sure enough Blu rays, dvd's, sacd's etc etc all sound fab.
I have to wonder how many hundreds of hours of effort could have been saved by a better-written manual...
...that said, if that is the lowest point and the equipment itself is as good as first impressions imply, I'd rather it was that way round.
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What ho, gents:
As promised, here's the very helpful reply I just received from Stan at Bryston. He confirmed that it is not possible to set separate subwoofer distances when using the SP3's Aux-L/Aux-R outputs. This is certainly no deal-breaker but it may require significant tweaking of the subs. In case it may be helpful to you, I've pasted in my query to Stan following his reply.
Cheerio,
RJ
Stan's Reply
"I think, using Aux-L and Aux -R outputs to drive your two subwoofers will fulfill your goals 1-4. Aux-L and R contain downmixed spectrum from all the source channels in a multichannel stream, including the LFE. It will work equally well if the original stream is 2.0 or 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1. You have to enable a lowpass filter in your suboofers to be close to your main speaker's cutoff (about 39Hz). A time delay (speaker distances) cannot be independently set for the Aux-L and Aux-R.
Since your main speakers can reproduce bass from 39Hz up, you could set SP3 cutoff frequency at 40Hz and set SPEAKER SIZE as Small, or set them as Large and disregard the SP3 cutoff frequency setup. The only difference is that in the first case all bass below 40Hz plus LFE below 40Hz will be routed to the Subwoofer output of SP3 (which you probably won't use anyway), while in the second case only LFE will be routed to the Subwoofer output. In either case Aux-L and Aux-R will carry the entire spectrum, so there is no difference if you use only Aux-L,R to drive the subs.
There is a difference in the way bass contents of the L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Rb,Lb channels is handled as opposed to the bass content of LFE channel.
Small
In the first case (Small) your main speakers will receive the portion of the bass from L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Rb,Lb above the cutoff frequency that you have set (40Hz) but none of the LFE, LFE will be all routed to the Sub only, along with the other bass below 40Hz, and all this will also be downmixed into Aux-L,R as well.
Large
In the second case (Large) , All bass contents of the L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Rb,Lb channels will go through your Large speakers, regardless of the cutoff frequency set in SP3, while only all LFE will go through the subwoofer SP3 output (and will also be downmixed through Aux-L,R)."
_______________________________________ _______________________________________ _______________________________________ ___
My Query
I am writing on using two subwoofers with the SP3. I've read the manual but need your expertise and advice. A list of my gear appears below this message. I apologize for the length of this email; my subwoofers do present some perhaps unusual options.
The goal
I want to enable stereo (or dual) subwoofer outputs (my subs are connected with in-wall single-ended RCA cables that I cannot change). As noted below, my subs can accept a full-range signal or an LFE signal; they can also be daisy-chained, to act as one sub. (I realize that at the lower frequencies, there is no stereo separation.)
1. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use two subs when playing two-channel audio
2. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use two subs when playing multi-channel audio
3. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use two subs for LFE when playing multichannel movies?
4. Can I set the distance for each subwoofer individually?
The question
Can I use the SP3's L-Aux and R-Aux outputs to achieve my four goals above? If not, is there another way to accomplish my goals?
Pertinent Information
My Velodyne subs claim a frequency response of 14.6-120 Hz ± 3db, and my Paradigm S8 towers claim a response of 39 Hz - 45 kHz ± 2db. The subs have an eight-band auto and manual parametric EQ feature that lets one adjust or bypass the low-pass crossover (high-pass is fixed at 80 Hz). The subs each have their own volume control. Velodyne's software will let me EQ each sub separately.
Also, the Velodyne DD15 prefers to use its internal crossovers rather than LFE output, but it will work with LFE if the low-pass crossover is defeated. Here are apt excerpts from the manual.
A Word About Subwoofer Outputs
The Velodyne subwoofer is designed to operate using the full range audio signal for input when using the digital built-in crossover. Most processors/receivers have a “subwoofer out” jack that is internally filtered and designed to be used with a conventional amplifier and speaker. In some rare cases, combining both an external crossover and the one internal to the subwoofer may result in low output and increased noise. In these installations you may need to bypass the internal crossover in either the processor or Velodyne subwoofer. In some installations, simply setting one crossover to a higher frequency (such as 120Hz) will restore maximum performance. To bypass the subwoofer’s internal crossover when the unit is being fed a low pass signal from another crossover, refer to the SeTUP instructions at step 14 (page 24).
Page 24:
NOTE: Some receivers/processors supply a signal that is already crossed over – i.e. just the bass frequencies. If this is the case, you will want to defeat the subwoofer’s low pass crossover. To defeat the low pass crossover, press the SelecT key, then the ReSeT key. The following screen appears:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75019)
Finally, if only one sub output is available from the SP3, I can daisy-chain the subs to act as one.
A Word About Connecting More Than One Subwoofer
If you are connecting more than one dd subwoofer to your system, you will connect them together in a “daisy- chain.” choose one sub for all the connections described below (we’ll call this the “master” sub), and then connect an RCA jack from the THRU RCA jacks of the “primary” to the input jacks of the “slave” sub. You will also need to obtain a “mouse extension” serial cable (available at any computer store, from your Authorized Velodyne dealer, or from Velodyne directly) and connect the RS-232 OUT port of the primary sub to the RS-232 In port of the secondary sub. Then, all runtime commands directed at the primary sub (such as volume) will be communicated to the secondary sub automatically through the serial cable. If you have more than two subs in your setup, simply continue the daisy chain from the secondary sub to the next sub in the line (using both RcA and serial connections) and so on.
I very much appreciate your help, Mr. Bleszynski. I've been waiting a long time for the SP3 and am thrilled by its possibilities.
Amplifiers
Bryston 6B-SST(C) amp: front L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C) amp: surround L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C) amp: rear L/C/R
Speakers
Paradigm Reference Signature S8: fronts L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature C5: front C
Paradigm Reference Signature ADP: surrounds L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature S4: rears L/R
Velodyne DD15 subwoofers (2): subwoofers L/R
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If it is on, pressing the button does not put it in standby. If it is in standby, pressing the button does turn it on (I just checked this). I can turn it off via the remote, or a Universal remote via the infrared remote input. Not a major issue, just a curious one. Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards.
Just confirming this symptom with 2012.12
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While I'm loving the sound quality of my SP3, but one thing is driving me nuts... after about 15 minutes the sound cuts out and no amount of changing sources or settings will bring it back. Only a "power off > leave for a few seconds > power on" will resolve it.
Oddly this seems to happen *every* time and yet, once it has happened and I've been through the process, it doesn't then happen again....
Any ideas as to what might be causing it and/or how to diagnose the fault ?
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While I'm loving the sound quality of my SP3, but one thing is driving me nuts... after about 15 minutes the sound cuts out and no amount of changing sources or settings will bring it back. Only a "power off > leave for a few seconds > power on" will resolve it.
Oddly this seems to happen *every* time and yet, once it has happened and I've been through the process, it doesn't then happen again....
Any ideas as to what might be causing it and/or how to diagnose the fault ?
Hi
What software version are you using??
james
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Serial number 35
Firmware 2012.12
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Serial number 35
Firmware 2012.12
OK email me and I will send you some new software - jamestanner@bryston.com
james
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Firefox browser incompatibility issues
Recent versions of Firefox (2012 and 2013) seem to result in corrupted SP3.bin file uploaded to SP3 unit. This causes the programming to fail reverting the unit back to the factory backup
firmware.
It is recommended to use Chrome, Safari or Internet Explorer. If the unit upgrade fails due to the above mentioned reason, it is recommended to repeat the procedure using other browser.
If the original URL address cannot be accessed, then use the following direct link, which will always work even if all files were corrupted:
http://xx.xx.xx.xx/upload where xx.xx.xx.xx are the currently used SP3 address digits displayed on the front panel logo screen when the left arrow key is pressed. Example: 169.254.1.1
Stan Bleszynski
Bryston Ltd. 6-March-2013
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James are you folks prepared there for the upcoming HDMI 2.0?
Oh wait....
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/trademark_logo_pub.aspx (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/trademark_logo_pub.aspx)
"No Use of HDMI Version Numbers Effective Immediately Effective January 1, 2012, all HDMI products cannot make any reference to HDMI version numbers. Please refer to updated Adopted Trademark and Logo Guidelines (ATLUG) for further guidance. There is no grace period for this requirement."
Fantastic.
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From: Chris
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:04 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: Re: Thank you
James,
My SP3 and BDP-2 are now installed and after many years of trying to marry AV and music, I know feel that I have the best of both worlds. I have the BDP-2 quickly hooked up to my QNAP server and it enumerated 14,000 FLAC tracks in no time at all and is extremely reactive to all controls from the MPAD on my iPAD. Love it
Very happy.
And it has blue LED's!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76459)
Many thanks,
Chris
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Dang it James,the sp-3 in Black with Blu leds looks real nice and I'm sure performance is superb also.
I'll have to see,frig,demo T-subs,SP-3 BDP 1-2 damn I'm broke already..........wait a minute ..CC's take it to the limit one more time :thumb:.
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replacing my SSP-800 with an SP3 this week
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got answers to my questions...ignore
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I just hooked my sp3 up and have a few questions:
1. Is anyone having issues with an IR repeater?
I was using the Xantech 78944 with no issues with my Classe SSP-800. With the Xantech plugged into the SP3, any button on the Bryston remote (or ANY remote) turns the SP3 on or off, making my remote completely useless. Using an actual IR eye placed over the SP3 sensor is the same - every button turns the SP3 on or off.
update: same thing happens with a Monoprice IR repeater. I have the SP3 in a closet, so I need to use a repeater.
Is the Xantech the problem, or doe these simply not work with the SP3?
Also, is the USB in really limited to 48khz?
Can I set a static ip less than 192.*? My network is 10.* and it won't let me go below 192 on the sp3
Hi
Please email Stan at Bryston about this - james
stanbleszynski@gmail.com
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Ignore my IR question. I'm an idiot and when I hooked up my amp triggers I plugged the IR in into the trigger in instead of the IR in. problem quickly solved when I looked at the back of the unit. :duh: :duh:
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Ignore my IR question. I'm an idiot and when I hooked up my amp triggers I plugged the IR in into the trigger in instead of the IR in. problem quickly solved when I looked at the back of the unit. :duh: :duh:
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Playing a 24/192 album from HDTracks through from my Oppo BDP 93 over HDMI, the Classe SSP-800 correctly identifies that the audio is 192khz. The SP3 is only showing 96khz. I tried sending both PCM and bitstream over HDMI and the SP3 would only show 96khz from both. Over optical, it would see 192
Is this a known issue?
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Playing a 24/192 album from HDTracks through from my Oppo BDP 93 over HDMI, the Classe SSP-800 correctly identifies that the audio is 192khz. The SP3 is only showing 96khz. I tried sending both PCM and bitstream over HDMI and the SP3 would only show 96khz from both. Over optical, it would see 192
Is this a known issue?
I will ask engineering - it may be a setting.
james
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I thought it might be, but the only one I saw was the D/A Sample Rate, which I have set to 192khz
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I thought it might be, but the only one I saw was the D/A Sample Rate, which I have set to 192khz
Hi
I think the OPPO will not output 192 on HDMI and down-samples it to 96 but I want to check. The SP-3 tells you the real sample rate being processed whereas some units tell you want is coming in - want to check on that.
james
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Oppo players will send out 192kHz and also at 24 bit over HDMI. When I was using an HDMI audio de-embedder (where I preferred 24/88.2kKz via the DAC vs. my modded Oppo analog outs), I ran an Integra over to John Gatski's (of everythingaudio.net) place as the BDA-1 I had at the time showed I was getting 176kHz. John has an ATI ADAC2 sample rate converter which shows bit depth. Unfortunately the Integra truncated the word length to 16 bits. I've passed 192kHz via an HDMI audio de-embedder from more than one Oppo model into the BDA-1
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Hi
I think the OPPO will not output 192 on HDMI and down-samples it to 96 but I want to check. The SP-3 tells you the real sample rate being processed whereas some units tell you want is coming in - want to check on that.
james
If it downsampled it and actually sent 96khz, why would the Classe SSP-800 show it as 192khz? I'm pretty sure the Oppos can output 192khz over HDMI
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Hi
I think the OPPO will not output 192 on HDMI and down-samples it to 96 but I want to check. The SP-3 tells you the real sample rate being processed whereas some units tell you want is coming in - want to check on that.
james
I have the same problem. So, I reached out to OPPO to see if the BDP-93 was limited to 96 over HDMI. It is not. They confirmed that the BDP-93 will pass through 192 with no problem. Their feedback was that the SP3 must have a handshake problem that results in the OPPO down-converting to 96.
James, if possible, can your engineers reach out to OPPO to see what the issue is? It would be great to get this fixed with the next firmware update.
Thanks
-
Kal Rubinson's Stereophile review (Music In The Round #55, July, 2012) mentions this issue
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James, if possible, can your engineers reach out to OPPO to see what the issue is? It would be great to get this fixed with the next firmware update.
Thanks
[/quote
Yes it is definitely the OPPO as my DUNE player has no issue with 192 over HDMI with the SP3 :scratch:
James
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But my Classe processor has no issues getting 192khz from the Oppo...
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But my Classe processor has no issues getting 192khz from the Oppo...
Yes but what engineering told me is that the SP-3 reads what is actually being processed by the SP-3 while some processors show what bit rate is coming in and not what bit rate is being processed by the chips in the processor - i want to check on whether I am understanding the engineers correctly. :duh:
james
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OK I am ordering an OPPO player and we will have a look.
james
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Thanks for purchasing an Oppo player, James. It's reflective of your and Bryston's commitment to supporting your clients.
I would encourage you to get the BDP-105, as it's positioned at a level commensurate with the interests of Bryston owners, and it has some interesting design features that may be pique your interest as you develop future products.
Best fishes,
Rich
_____________________
Whiney Napa Valley
Eschew obfuscation.
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I echo those same sentiments.
What other vendor goes to such lengths to replicate a customer's issue in search of a resolution?
A+ James & Bryston :thumb:
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Anyone ever have their SP3 randomly lose network connectivity? Mine was fine since last week but now doesn't want to have an IP address anymore. set to auto, not static
When i set it to static, then back to auto, it found it again
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Yep, mine does this as well. I just go into network settings and make a change (doesn't seem to matter what) and then save it and then go in and change it back the IP address comes back. When it fails it isn't attached to the router at all (checking the MAC address).
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I had some network connectivity issues as well. Changed from the default "Server & Client" to "DHCP Client Auto IP" and it is now reliable.
Note - this works for me as my router provides DHCP services. If your network is different, you may need a different solution. Have you seen the guidelines in the Bryston FTP area? ftp://bryston.com/pub/firmware/sp3/doc/ (http://ftp://bryston.com/pub/firmware/sp3/doc/)
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Mine's already set to "DHCP Client Auto IP." I had to set it to a different setting and then back to "DHCP Client Auto IP" for it to get an IP address last night
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I have the same problem. So, I reached out to OPPO to see if the BDP-93 was limited to 96 over HDMI. It is not. They confirmed that the BDP-93 will pass through 192 with no problem. Their feedback was that the SP3 must have a handshake problem that results in the OPPO down-converting to 96.
James, if possible, can your engineers reach out to OPPO to see what the issue is? It would be great to get this fixed with the next firmware update.
Thanks
Hi James, just following up on this, I had never looked at the rates before on the SP3.
I have a much older Oppo 83SE (still hoping you will build me a replacement Bryston Bluray to replace it eventually :oops:) anyway, I tried a couple of things, connected up over HDMI if I put a DVD-Audio disc in the SP3 shows 96kHz correctly, so that it is good, I will have to find some 192kHz to try later. So, to my question, I then left the rate display on the SP3 and ran a couple of Blurays, they always report 48kHz regardless of whether it is bitstream or PCM (I have max LPCM set to 192kHz in the oppo) I tried ordinary DVDs, DTS-MA and DD-True HD all the same always 48kHz, does that sound right?
Cheers
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Hi James, just following up on this, I had never looked at the rates before on the SP3.
I have a much older Oppo 83SE (still hoping you will build me a replacement Bryston Bluray to replace it eventually :oops:) anyway, I tried a couple of things, connected up over HDMI if I put a DVD-Audio disc in the SP3 shows 96kHz correctly, so that it is good, I will have to find some 192kHz to try later. So, to my question, I then left the rate display on the SP3 and ran a couple of Blurays, they always report 48kHz regardless of whether it is bitstream or PCM (I have max LPCM set to 192kHz in the oppo) I tried ordinary DVDs, DTS-MA and DD-True HD all the same always 48kHz, does that sound right?
Cheers
I have never seen a Movie above 48 - some music discs I have seen are 96.
james
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I have never seen a Movie above 48 - some music discs I have seen are 96.
james
That is OK then, thank you. I was just worried having seen the above and thought films would be higher than that. I might have a google around and see if there are any films (non music) with higher sample rates.
Cheers
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That is OK then, thank you. I was just worried having seen the above and thought films would be higher than that. I might have a google around and see if there are any films (non music) with higher sample rates.
Here is a good source for such info: http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
Use the audio filter for 96 or 192 - the selection available is tiny.
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Here is a good source for such info: http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
Use the audio filter for 96 or 192 - the selection available is tiny.
Thanks for that, I had always assumed the 48kHz was just the 'core' DTS/DD not the full HD tracks.
Everyday is a school day :thumb:
Cheers
-
Thanks for purchasing an Oppo player, James. It's reflective of your and Bryston's commitment to supporting your clients.
I would encourage you to get the BDP-105, as it's positioned at a level commensurate with the interests of Bryston owners, and it has some interesting design features that may be pique your interest as you develop future products.
Best fishes,
Rich
_____________________
Whiney Napa Valley
Eschew obfuscation.
I originally bought the 105 but changed to the 103 after I purchased the SP3. It's a waste of money since the video is the same in the 103 and 105, and the SP3 does everything better audio wise than the OPPO 105 could ever hope to achieve. (If I didn't get the SP3 I probably would have kept the 105).
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Anyone happen to have a picture of an SP3 19inch faceplate version (racked)?
Also, is it possible to purchase an alternate faceplate and change them if/when needed?
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Halloo, gents:
I'm pleased to report that I've ordered an SP3: 17" black, with blue display. I made the mistake of checking out the Bryston BDP-2 digital player and BDA-2 D/A converter, and have ordered those as well: same cosmetics. In the next couple of weeks, I'll pick up an Oppo BDP-105, likely followed in a few months by the Bryston BOT-1 optical transport, now in development. These items should play well with my existing gear, listed in my post #1872.
I want to thank the participants in this forum for your helpful posts, especially skunark, ragg987, m00nhawk, and James, who responded directly to my queries. Everyone's contributions to this forum have been useful and interesting, and I appreciate the generous spirit and positive tone you provide. I want to publicly thank Kal Rubinson, whose consistently insightful and engaging writing delineated astutely the performance, features, and trade-offs inherent in the SP3. I've been a subscriber to Stereophile since the first issues, when it was little larger than a pamphlet, and Kal's column is the first thing I turn to with each new issue.
I'll likely have lots of questions for you and look forward to following and participating in this thread.
Again, many thanks.
RJ
Whiney Napa Valley
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Your point on the Oppo BDP-103 vis-a-vis 105 is well taken, Boldlygo. I chose the 105 because down the line it will serve well in my office system, and the headphone and DAC capabilities will be quite useful therein. I'd recommended James purchase the 105 because it's an innovative device and might prove stimulating for future Bryston product development.
Cheerio,
RJ
__________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Anyone happen to have a picture of an SP3 19inch faceplate version (racked)?
Also, is it possible to purchase an alternate faceplate and change them if/when needed?
Hi,
Faceplate would be very hard to change.
james
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Gents, I'm interested in your recommendations for a universal remote with the SP3. I just want basic functions, so my wife can control the system easily, such as power on/off, input switching, volume, play/pause/stop. I don't care about controlling lighting, drapes, fish grooming, or other functions. I want something that won't require line of sight, and I don't want to have to stick emitters on the front of the components. I've listed our components in my signature.
I'd like to be able to reprogram the remote as we add new components. I was hoping to control the system through an iPad/iPad Mini. I've looked at the Roomie Remote, but it has no IP or serial code listings for Bryston gear, though it does have IR codes for "Bryston SP Series All Models."
All of our components (sans the TV) have RS232. I know nothing about this method of control and would appreciate any insights you might offer. I'm tabula rasa as regards remotes, so all this is a mystery to me. So as not to take this thread off topic, perhaps you'd prefer to PM me?
Thanks very much,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Harmony 555 works fine for me.
Gents, I'm interested in your recommendations for a universal remote with the SP3. I just want basic functions, so my wife can control the system easily, such as power on/off, input switching, volume, play/pause/stop. I don't care about controlling lighting, drapes, fish grooming, or other functions. I want something that won't require line of sight, and I don't want to have to stick emitters on the front of the components. I've listed our components in my signature.
I'd like to be able to reprogram the remote as we add new components. I was hoping to control the system through an iPad/iPad Mini. I've looked at the Roomie Remote, but it has no IP or serial code listings for Bryston gear, though it does have IR codes for "Bryston SP Series All Models."
All of our components (sans the TV) have RS232. I know nothing about this method of control and would appreciate any insights you might offer. I'm tabula rasa as regards remotes, so all this is a mystery to me. So as not to take this thread off topic, perhaps you'd prefer to PM me?
Thanks very much,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Harmony 555 works fine for me.
Harmony 895 is good for me, I also use the RF extender into the SP3.
Cheers
-
Thanks, gents. I appreciate the recommendations.
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Greetings, SP3 fans:
I'm hoping to avail myself of the wealth of your expertise and experience.
My SP3 should arrive quite soon, and I'd very much appreciate your tips as to setup and configuration. I've reviewed the manual, but it doesn't offer much detail.
I have my tape measure, handy Radio Shack analog sound level meter, and Genelec speaker angle iPhone app at the ready, and I've polished my ears. My equipment is listed below. My listening chair is broken in.
On a 1-100 scale of expertise in this area, I feel like a 0.95, so I'd appreciate all advice, no matter how basic.
Thanks very much, and best fishes,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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I'm excited for you, you have good equipment. Anyway one tip I can give you is speaker placement is of paramount importance. Don't feel you have to stick with conventional set ups, adapt according to your room. Like for me I have a 11'x25'x8' room, I tried different configurations over the years and all speakers placed along the long wall works best for this room. The change in speaker placement can be startling.
You also want to minimize localization of speakers. Might not be a problem for you with good gear, but you can use wall reflections to kind of mask speaker location. There should be a seemless soundstage in multi-channel listening from left to right with no obvious holes in the soundfield.
Also try large & small for speaker setup, depending on the amps you might get better mid-range with some speakers set to small. IMO though with your amps you should have no problem with speakers set to large.
What is your room size?
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Thanks for the reply, Mag:
The room measures: L: 190" (15' 10") / 4.8 m | W: 147" (12' 3") / 3.7 m | H-Front: 138" (11' 6") / 3.5 m | H-Rear: 104" (8' 8") / 2.6 m
I've attached a couple of old photos: two views of the room and another of the opposite room, to show the wall height. Notice that the room is open (to the dining room) on the right-hand side. I'll add updated pics when the new gear is in place.
Cheerio,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78032)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78033)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78034)
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That's a nice cozy looking room you got there. However you are not making optimal use of your S8, you may not be aware of how well these speakers can image.
I know you're not going to want to hear this but I would move the S8's,TV & center channel to the right side of the room and put the TV and center channel on stands. Unless you have another room in mind. :|
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I appreciate the tip, Mag, but a WAF impossibility. Besides, here's the interior of the wall the speakers and TV are on. Lots of Ultralink in-wall speaker cable (14 gauge for mids/highs, 12 for bass) and a large conduit for TV cables. Also, a dedicated 20-amp circuit.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78043)
Cheerio,
Rich
______________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Oops, forgot to note 14/4 and 12/4 speaker cables. That is four wire bundles per cable, so twice the thickness; hefty amounts of copper, as the run is almost forty feet at its maximum. No chance of moving the locations, I'm afraid.
Rich
______________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Halloo, gents. I would very much appreciate your help in resolving problems with multichannel audio settings for my SP3.
Essentially, I cannot get the SP3 to output the incoming audio signal; it wants to apply surround modes such as ProLogic variants. Is there a way to turn these off?
I'm using an Oppo BDP-105, set for multichannel out via HDMI, and have tried auto, PCM, and bitstream for the audio output settings. The 105 is connected to the SP3's HDMI 1 (DVD). The SP3 HDMI button is on, with the blue light indicating signal; Stereo button is off. The SP3 often displays a G at the bottom right of its screen.
1. SACD 5.1 will not output native channels; SP3 displays 5.1 in; out is ProLogic and other surround modes.
2. DVD-A 5.1 will not output native channels; SP3 displays 5.1 in; out is ProLogic and other surround modes.
3. Blu-ray disc with 5.1 or 7.1 Dolby True HD: SP3 displays TrueHD 5.1 or 7.1 in; out is ProLogic and other surround modes.
4. Blu-ray disc with 5.1 DTS HDMA: SP3 displays DTS HDMA 5.1 in; out is ProLogic and other surround modes.
I can't find anything in the manual that discusses how to get native resolution from discs, such as decoding and outputting Dolby TrueHD or DTSHD. The surround modes only seem to provide synthesized modes, such as ProLogic variants.
Also, I've connected the Toslink audio output from my Pioneer Elite TV to the SP3's Optical 1 input and have assigned this input to DVR through the SP3's Other Settings menu. I get no signal: the SP3's display reads SRC: DVR OPT1 NO. My guess is that the NO indicates an error somewhere, but I have no idea where.
Finally, there are frequent pops as a Blu-ray disc loads and proceeds through startup screens and menus. Each menu seems to elicit a pop (perhaps HDMI handshake?)
Thanks, guys. These things are almost always user error/ignorance, but they are nonetheless frustrating, and I am grateful for your expertise and advice.
Cheerio,
RJ
_____________________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Cycle the Surround mode until you get to Passthru. This will pass the surround modes without any processing. For some reason this is never covered in their manuals, SP3 or the predecessor models.
I have a BDP-105 connect by HDMI and get none of the popping you describe. You might want to evaluate your BDP-105 settings regarding the HDMI output modes. I have mine connected such that HDMI 1 is going direct to the Elite with HDMI 2 going to SP3 and only passing audio - no video.
Refer to page 12 of the manual for Optical issue. You're going to the wrong place to set this. You need to set it in the SYSTEM SETUP -> DIGITAL SOURCES menu. You need to set DVR to OPT1. Be aware that each input must be set unique. If you have a duplication of assignments the duplicates will show in reversed highlight - dark letters on bright box. You must alter settings on each until they are assigned unique. When that is done all will be bright lettering on dark background.
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Kosh2258, thanks for your kind and very helpful reply:
Oddly, tonight, some of the problems self-healed. No settings have been changed. I had the same experience with my just-received BDP2 and BDA2, which would not emit sound for the first two days and miraculously worked on the third. It remains to be seen whether these are intermittent issues. The joys of merging computer and audio technologies, eh?
Here are the specifics:
1. Oddly, the SP3 tonight for the first time passed native audio through the processor without wanting to process ProLogic and the other synthesized formats. You aptly advised me to cycle through the surround modes until passthru appeared. Interestingly, the passthru option had not appeared until tonight, and it seems to work fine (for now).
2. I still cannot get the TV audio from the Pioneer media box through the SP3. Yesterday, I had what you aptly directed, kosh: yesterday, I set in SYSTEM SETUP -> DIGITAL SOURCES menu the DVR input to OPT1. But when I choose the DVR input and press the Digital button, the light remains red and the SP3 display reads DVR OPT1 NO. I've not a clue what to do to fix this.
3. FWIW, the Oppo 105 player has always been set to Secondary Audio off. I used the HDMI 1 output into the SP3's HDMI 1 input; the SP3's HDMI 1 output goes to our Pioneer Elite TV's media box. I will change this setup, since the SP3 must be powered up for the HDMI passthrough function to work; I'll run HDMI 1 directly to the TV and HDMI2 to the SP3; I won't use either of the SP3's HDMI outputs.
4. Do you know what the G displayed in the lower right-hand part of the SP3 screen means?
Thanks again, kosh, for your very helpful advice. I very much appreciate your expertise and generous help. Your peer-to-peer guidance is extremely valuable.
Best regards,
Rich
__________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Thanks again, Kosh2258, and howdy-do, SP3 fans:
I think my gear has time zone lag. My SP3 would not work correctly for two days after I received it last Wednesday; like the BDP2 and BDA2 I received at the same time, it miraculously self-healed on the third day (weird religious allusions, eh?). If you have DOA electronics, just send them to me and see if they resurrect.
James referred me to Stan at Bryston, who was very helpful. He confirmed that the optical signal from our TV was not getting to the SP3. He also noted that the G in the SP3 display indicated that the settings were global, rather than for individual inputs.
I cogitated on this optical signal matter for awhile and thought, what could be the gigantic pain causing this problem? HDMI, of course! And that was it. I called Pioneer tech support, and they confirmed that connecting an HDMI input locked out the optical output (of course, there's no documentation on this in the Pioneer manual). The content providers have to protect their audio streams from being stolen by we criminals who actually purchase the hardware and services. I hope all of you feel extremely guilty, as I do. Moving the optical cable from the TV output to the output on our DVR solved the problem immediately. Whew. Now we can watch the Sharks with decent audio. Game on!
One odd glitch remains: when getting Dolby Digital 5.1 through the DVR-OPT1/Digital settings on the SP3, the input reads Dolby Digital 5.1, but the output only allows the ProLogic and other synthesized modes; there is no passthru option. Weird, eh? I've emailed Stan about this and will report his findings.
Now, I need to talk with Oppo and see which settings for the 105 will let it play well with the SP3 and BDA2. Until Bryston releases their BOT1 optical transport, the Oppo should be a good match with Bryston's D/A converter.
Toodle pip,
Rich
___________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Rich,
My pleasure to assist where I can. I see you got the answers to your remaining questions.
The explanation of the "G" or "I" setting is in the firmware documentation that goes with Firmware update 2012.11
For a number of practical reasons, I have my BDP-105 connected to the SP3 several different ways. Besides the HDMI cable, I have also connected the 7.1 analog cables. The coax digital, so I can play some 192/24 discs I have at full rate (HDMI isn't passing at full rate for some reason). Finally, I also have the balanced stereo cables connected as well. In playing with the various modes, I've discovered that the SP3 sound character varies from connection to connection. They all sound good, to be sure, but I find that playing CDs from the BDP-105 thru the balanced connections creates a wider, more transparent sound stage in my set up. So, I now play material through the SP3 using the connection that best suits the source material and my ear. Of course, the quality of the sound is always in the ear of the beholder.
Regarding the DVR input, DVR box, and the surround mode, I am not having that issue. However, I am using the SAT input rather than the DVR input as my connection source. I show Dolby 5.1 as the input and Passthru 5.1 as the output using that arrangement. The other difference is that I'm using the coax digital SPDIF 2 rather than Toslink. Actually, I've abandon using Toslink optical as a connection method. Mostly because there's a bandwidth limitation with Toslink that the coax digital doesn't have. Again, a choice.
I imagine that with some experimenting you'll be able to sort out your connections and find the combination that will yield the results you're after.
Ted
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Halloo, kosh and SP3 fans:
As promised, here are the results of my email exchange with Stan Bleszynski, SP3 software engineer. Looks like there's good news ahead for us.
The symptoms:
When receiving Dolby Digital 5.1 through the DVR-OPT1/Digital settings on my SP3, the input reads Dolby Digital 5.1, but the output only allows the ProLogic and other synthesized modes; there is no passthru option.
Stan asked me what the displayed showed, and I sent him a photo; the SP3 display indicated 5.1 DD in and synthesized modes out. The Toslink comes from our Motorola DCX3501 DVR (Comcast cable TV). There is no bypass option when cycling through the surround modes.
Stan's first reply:
This is OK, those are the 5.1 to 7.1 re-creation modes, it is used to restore the back speakers only, if they are not present in the original stream. You can select several modes.
My ah-ha moment:
Am I correct in surmising, Stan, that the reason I'm getting the synthesized modes is because in my quick setup of the SP3, I chose global settings and 7.1 for speakers? Is there any way to turn off the re-creation modes and select the native audio stream?
If I do individual settings and choose 5.1 speakers for the DVR input, would I get a native stream from the Toslink signal?
Stan's second reply, with a prospective goodie for all of us:
Yes, it would work! Setting individual sources and selecting Back=None would disable PLII modes for back speakers. Your email may indicate that perhaps adding "none" or "pass-through" mode selection to prevent 5.1-->7.1 re-creation in such situations may be useful. We will probably add it in the future revisions.
Thus, it looks like the ability to add passthrough as a playback option is in our future. Thanks, Stan! Stan is the man!
Best fishes, guys.
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Rich,
The response to the second question explains why I don't see that in my set up. I have the same model DVR and do have the Global settings option enabled. What I don't have, and don't have configured, are the rear channel speakers - just a 5.1 configuration. So, that confirms the statement Stan made about the output.
Ted
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You're right, kosh:
It appears that I need to change my speaker configuration in the SP3 from 7.1 to 5.1 to avoid the ProLogic modes on 5.1 content played through a 7.1 system. For 7.1 material, I have to reconfigure the SP3 speaker settings to 7.1. What's odd, though, is that when I play a 2.0 DVD, such as a BBC series disc, the SP3 input and outputs the 2.0 audio stream.
This makes Stan's proposed pass-through update discussed above much more important, as the existing method is very clunky. From Stan's email, it looks like it will happen with the next firmware update.
Rich
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Howdy-do, SP3 fans:
I'm still getting some weird events with my SP3. For clarification, here are some photos of the display and examples to clarify what's happening. I also get fairly loud popping through my speakers at the beginning of DVDs and Bly-rays, when the discs are moving through their usual startup screens. Are you experiencing any behaviours like this?
1. 5.1 DTS-HDMA: Chronos Blu-ray disc - with SP3 speaker config set at 5.1.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79463)
2. 5.1 DTS-HDMA: Chronos Blu-ray disc - with SP3 speaker config set at 7.1. The SP3 will only make available ProLogic and DTS synthesized modes. There is no pass-through available to play the native audio stream, and I look forward to the fix on the forthcoming update.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79464)
3. 7.1 speaker config screen; connections from Oppo BDP-105 disc player through the SP3's HDMI 1 digital input.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79465)
4. 7.1 Dolby TrueHD - AIX Sampler Blu-ray - with SP3 speaker config set at 7.1. This disc plays fine.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79466)
5. 7.1 DTS-HDMA - Pan's Labyrinth Blu-ray - with SP3 speaker config set at 7.1. Oddly, this disc outputs the 7.1 stream to 5.1, though the speakers are configured as 7.1. The disc played fine in 7.1 through my old system.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79467)
I've asked Stan, the SP3's software guru, if these glitches will be fixed in the next firmware update and remain hopeful.
Cheerio,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Halloo, gents:
I heard from Stan at Bryston on an earlier email regarding enabling the bypass option for 7.1. Here are his key points:
1. The option used to be enabled in very old versions of the firmware.
2. It is reenabled in the current firmware test release (not yet available, as it's not yet fully tested).
3. They took it out because they thought, "who may ever want to do 5.1 if they have 7.1 speakers?" Little did we know . . .
So . . . it looks like the option will return. Stan is the man!
I also asked Stan about the issues noted in my post 1947 above and will share his response upon receipt.
Little knowing and knowing little,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Is anyone using a URC MX-980 with their SP3? I don't see any codes in their database for either the SP-2 or SP-3. I guess I could just learn all of them but I would like to avoid having to do that.
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I've just got a great deal on a second sub woofer and I have set it up using the right Aux output, all is working fine but I have a question - does the SP3 apply the same crossover to this sub or do I need to set the crossover on the sub itself?
Also is this the recommended setup for 2 subs or should I set the speakers to large and use the Aux in stereo and use the crossovers in the subs?
Many thanks,
Chris
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should I set the speakers to large and use the Aux in stereo and use the crossovers in the subs?
If the mains were capable of frequencies lower than 80Hz, and were set to large, the subs and mains would then be sharing the same frequencies and could result in cancellations. It's best to bass manage both the mains and subs.
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Many thanks. that makes sense :D
All I need to know now is if the SP3 uses its internal crossover frequency when using the Aux R. :thumb:
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If the mains were capable of frequencies lower than 80Hz, and were set to large, the subs and mains would then be sharing the same frequencies and could result in cancellations. It's best to bass manage both the mains and subs.
What does that mean, "could result in cancellations." Why would that be? I thought that if the mains are set to large then the low frequency information wouldn't be re-routed to the sub. Why wouldn't you want that if your mains could handle it?
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What does that mean, "could result in cancellations." Why would that be? I thought that if the mains are set to large then the low frequency information wouldn't be re-routed to the sub. Why wouldn't you want that if your mains could handle it?
Bryston processors allow you to send a full range signal to the mains while bass managing the subs at the same time.
brucek
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Congrats on the SP3 and second sub, Chris:
The back of the SP3 manual has a discussion on sub options, but Stan Bleszynski, SP3 software guru, replied to my detailed query on multiple subs, and I hope this will be of help to you. See post 1886 on February 8th.
Cheerio,
Rich
________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Last night I set the speaker levels for input 2 - SAT which is getting the DD 5.1 information via S/PDIF. Tonight I put a blu ray on in my Oppo and fed the audio via HDMI 1 - DVD. I flipped through the menus and noticed that the speaker sizes and speaker levels were set at the default and zero, respectively. Does this mean I need to set speaker sizes and levels for each input source or is it for each signal type (DD 5.1 vs. DTS-HDMA).
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Last night I set the speaker levels for input 2 - SAT which is getting the DD 5.1 information via S/PDIF. Tonight I put a blu ray on in my Oppo and fed the audio via HDMI 1 - DVD. I flipped through the menus and noticed that the speaker sizes and speaker levels were set at the default and zero, respectively. Does this mean I need to set speaker sizes and levels for each input source or is it for each signal type (DD 5.1 vs. DTS-HDMA).
I have an SP2, you can set the parameters for each soundfield, inputs should not matter. Remember to hit the save button, should be on the remote or it will set to default on restart.
I have not set the parameters with Dolby on mine as I don't listen in Dolby. I however listen in DTS Music mode, I have my center channel adjusted which is important in this mode to get a seemless soundfield. DTS Movie mode is slightly different as it puts more emphasis on the center channel mix. :smoke:
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Last night I set the speaker levels for input 2 - SAT which is getting the DD 5.1 information via S/PDIF. Tonight I put a blu ray on in my Oppo and fed the audio via HDMI 1 - DVD. I flipped through the menus and noticed that the speaker sizes and speaker levels were set at the default and zero, respectively. Does this mean I need to set speaker sizes and levels for each input source or is it for each signal type (DD 5.1 vs. DTS-HDMA).
The SP3 can set speakers sizes and levels independently for each source (factory setting) of Globally (setting in source menu).
james
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Wanted to share an interesting little issue with the SP3. Finally just arrived from my dealer. I had requested a 19 inch rackmount version. Out of the box, the front face plate is 19 inches (as expected) with mounting holes for the the rack on the face plate. There is also a set of rack ears mounted behind the face plate. I assume this was for additional mounting support, which makes sense.
However, the screw holes on the rack ears do not align with the holes on the front face plate. They are off by 1/8 inch or so. This was right out of the box. Who ever installed the rack ears at Bryston had to notice this. Gotta say, I was a bit disappointed. Any ideas? Did Bryston simply install the wrong rack ears for the 19 face plate? Only thing that makes sense.
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Wanted to share an interesting little issue with the SP3. Finally just arrived from my dealer. I had requested a 19 inch rackmount version. Out of the box, the front face plate is 19 inches (as expected) with mounting holes for the the rack on the face plate. There is also a set of rack ears mounted behind the face plate. I assume this was for additional mounting support, which makes sense.
However, the screw holes on the rack ears do not align with the holes on the front face plate. They are off by 1/8 inch or so. This was right out of the box. Who ever installed the rack ears at Bryston had to notice this. Gotta say, I was a bit disappointed. Any ideas? Did Bryston simply install the wrong rack ears for the 19 face plate? Only thing that makes sense.
Please contact Mike Pickett at Bryston - new one on me?
mpickett@bryston.com
James
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Thanks James. Seen this before? Simple fix? Hoping it's simply the wrong type of rackears installed.
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Greetings, SP3 fans:
You might find Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks interview with Paul Hales of Professional Home Cinema quite interesting. Mr. Hales makes very good points on the problems with auto- (and even manual) room EQ systems, noting many of the points presented by James Tanner and other highly respected professionals in the audio field. From my view, this is an interesting and provocative argument. The podcast is available on video and MP3 (also from the iTunes Store).
http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/164
Best fishes,
Rich
________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Thanks Rich.
Indeed, very interesting and reassuring us in our choice of the SP3.
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Thanks for your comments, Buseto:
I doubt that the 2EQ or Not2EQ debate will be resolved, and it's unfortunate that in some forums participants are stridently pursuing their mission to prove that they have The One True Answer. There's lots of noise but little listening.
It seems to me that user satisfaction is the essential point of high-end audio gear, and I'm highly satisfied with the SP3 and my other Bryston gear. It brings the life and engagement of music and film into our home, and I can't ask for more than that.
Best fishes,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Hi everybody,
a couple of weeks ago, I joind the Bryston SP-3 owners club!
Found myself a used unit in Florida and I am very happy with it.
So my oberservations so far are:
- display noise: As with the first SP-3 I laid my hands on, this unit also has some display noise. :roll: It might just be a standard "feature" of the SP-3 and I seem more susceptible to this peculiarity than others. Placing the unit further away from my listening position and selecting a short display timeout, makes this flaw bearable to me.
- dissipation of energy: My unit really gets hot. Hotter than my bedroom SP-1.7 and hotter than the Onkyo PR-SC885P that the SP-3 replaced. The SP-3 is mounted in a 19" rack that is open in the front and the back and I have a 1U space above it to enable heat dissipation. Still it gets very hot, even heating up the Lumagen Radiance XE-3D and the Radiance Mini-3D that are placed above it in the rack.
- built quality: Here the SP-3 starts to shine! The haptic quality of the SP-3 is unique. Built like a tank, I feel "at home" when working with the unit. That is how a high end unit should feel like!
- sound quality: What really really amazed me is the sonic improvement, the SP-3 brought into my multichannel chain! The SP-3 is doing a fine job with movies, but especially with music, I feel like having a completely new system! I am experiencing my Dynaudio Contour S1.4 and Contour SR speakers, all driven by 6B SSTs, like entirely new speakers. The improvment in transparency and liveliness gives me the goose bumps, e.g. when listening to Adele at the Royal Albert Hall (DTS HD Master multi channel from Blu-Ray). Also, feeding the SP-3 via AES/EBU from my Logitech Transporter, stereo high res material sounds so much better than before that I have to re-listen to all my HD music and experience it anew!
Being a Bryston aficionado, I have to say that only Bryston could get a away with a, imho unnecessary, flaw like the display noise. The halo effect of the built quality and above all the sound quality make this flaw more and more disappear for me. Maybe Bryston was counting on that... :wink: Why am I so predictable!? :lol:
Cheers!
Markus
Happy SP-3 owner 8)
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Congratulatons!
- display noise: best thing if to turn the display automatically completely off after a certain time (see menu, shortest time is 2 minutes)
- dissipation of energy: no problem, says James T. It's meant to be, so there is no need for a vent.
Enjoy!
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Hi
Yes the SP3 runs pure Class A discrete analog circuits (no ic's) and the whole chassis acts as a heat sinc.
james
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Greetings, SP3 fans:
You might find Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks interview with Paul Hales of Professional Home Cinema quite interesting.
Thanks for the link. I found it very interesting. I am curious what people who use room EQ thought of his comments. Like anything else, it is just one person's opinion.
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Like anything else, it is just one person's opinion.
Just a remark in general (because I don't agree with that everyone's opinion has the same weight:
it's the motivation that's import: i
t can have a scientific experiment as base or a well constructed pro and contra analysis based on - up to now and thus not falsified - known facts.
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Hello,
Could you please tell me how to force the output to be the exact same(pass thru) as the input and not 7.1 or another surround mode ? For the DTSHD 2.0 it worked but i cannot find a way to do when in 5.1 surround mode (DD or DTS)
Firmware is the latest u2013.08A uploaded today. James, are there any differences from the SP3F(u2013.08F) file?
Thank you!
Kostas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84763)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84764)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84765)
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Easiest way is just push the STEREO button on the SP3
james
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Thank you James!
I agree and this is what I am doing for stereo soundtracks, but what about 5.1 that outputs in 7.1 ?
I have a 7.1 setup but I would like to have the original output.
Easiest way is just push the STEREO button on the SP3
james
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Thank you James!
I agree and this is what I am doing for stereo soundtracks, but what about 5.1 that outputs in 7.1 ?
I have a 7.1 setup but I would like to have the original output.
You cannot do that with the current, official firmware. However, the release notes for the beta firmware says it allows you to do that. I have not yet tried it.
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Thank you James!
I agree and this is what I am doing for stereo soundtracks, but what about 5.1 that outputs in 7.1 ?
I have a 7.1 setup but I would like to have the original output.
Hi
I am not sure on that as the number of channels in each source is a specific setting so to get 5.1 to 5.1 I believe you have to defeat the BACK channels under SPEAKERS in the source menu for that particular source? I will check with Stan at Bryston.
james
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Firmware is the latest u2013.08A uploaded today. James, are there any differences from the SP3F(u2013.08F) file?
As far as I know, the f2013.08 and u2013.08 are the same firmware. The f version is intended for the factory version (a backup version only upgradable by a Bryston technician) while the u version is the user upgradeable version. If for some reason the SP3 can't load the firmware it will revert to the factory version (i.e. the version which was current at the time of purchase).
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Hi James -
My SP3 was from the first batches SN36 and I'd like to keep it reasonably updated.
What are the latest firmware versions for the MDS boards (DSPA/DSPB and the HDMI boards).
DSPA FIRMWR DAE6503B
DSPA VERSN 02110000
DSPB FIRMWR DAE6503B
DSPB VERSN 02110000
HDMI VERSN 00001026
Thanks,
Assaf
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Hi James -
My SP3 was from the first batches SN36 and I'd like to keep it reasonably updated.
What are the latest firmware versions for the MDS boards (DSPA/DSPB and the HDMI boards).
DSPA FIRMWR DAE6503B
DSPA VERSN 02110000
DSPB FIRMWR DAE6503B
DSPB VERSN 02110000
HDMI VERSN 00001026
Thanks,
Assaf
Hi Assaf
No idea on that one - sorry. You would have to email Stan on that one.
James
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Hi guys, can someone tell me what (PCM ZR) is for ? This shows up under source setup-other. Thanks
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Hi guys, can someone tell me what (PCM ZR) is for ? This shows up under source setup-other. Thanks
ZR stands for Zero Run Detection algorithm and detects when a source (typically DVD or BD) that outputs a Dolby Digital or DTS compressed digital signal, reverts to outputting uncompressed linear PCM during pause or fast forward, causing silence or spurious noise resuming play.
It apparently doesn't apply to USB or HDMI inputs, but for S/PDIF coaxial or Toslink inputs, different ZR algorithm settings can be selected for each input.
There is a PDF that describe the settings for firmware 2011.92 and earlier, (ftp://bryston.com/pub/firmware/sp3/doc/sp3_track_start_silence_20111214.pdf), but the three settings (Disable, Auto, Gapless1) detailed don't quite match up to the five settings (Full, Gapless, Disable, Auto , Default2) listed in the later SP3 Owner's Manual dated 3/28/2012.
Steve
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Thanks Steve, very helpful!
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You cannot do that with the current, official firmware. However, the release notes for the beta firmware says it allows you to do that. I have not yet tried it.
Speaking of firmware - I just downloaded 2013.08b. Where do I find the release notes on it?
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Use the "Up to higher level directory" link to go up one level. You'll find a folder labeled 2013.08b. The release notes are in that folder.
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With firmware release 2012.11 the PCM ZR setting got renamed to FMT DETECT and the setting options reduced to 3 choices: AUTO, GAPLESS or DISABLE according to the release notes for the update.
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Hi guys,
Where do we find speaker level setup info . :scratch:
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I've read through the manual and I can't find the recommendation for the ventialation space for this unit. Is it the same as the amps, 3.5"?
Am I missing where it is in the manual?
TIA
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I've read through the manual and I can't find the recommendation for the ventialation space for this unit. Is it the same as the amps, 3.5"?
Am I missing where it is in the manual?
TIA
Hi TIA
The whole chassis is a heat sink especially the right side so a few inches is all that is needed.
James
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Hi guys,
Where do we find speaker level setup info . :scratch:
Congratulations on your SP3, Spotlight:
Alas, the SP3 manual is not in keeping with the quality of Bryston products, and to my mind this significantly diminishes a new user's experience with the product (and, sadly, tarnishes the Bryston image of quality). The manual does not address this matter as fully or lucidly as one might wish. However, you'll find that the SP3 is an excellent product and will reward the time you spend to set it up effectively.
Here are basic steps for setting levels. Doubtless, the other participants in the forum will have more helpful recommendations. There is a brief allusion to menu settings (bottom right of page 3 of the manual; see also page 12).
I used the following to set up my system:
1. Radio Shack sound level meter. Mine is the discontinued analog meter, catalog number 33-2050. Audio geeks seem to prefer the analog to the newer digital meters.
2. Tape measure: meters or feet
3. If you have an iPhone, the 99 cent speaker angle app by Genelec is worthwhile. It's on the iTunes app store.
4. Laser pointer; I used my laser level.
5. Tripod: I used my camera tripod to hold the Radio Shack meter.
You'll do this setup very infrequently, so if you can borrow any of the gear, that might make sense.
Basically, the steps are these:
1. Measure the distance from each speaker to your listening position and enter them in the SP3 via the right menu navigation button (see item B, pages 4-5 of the manual). Choose Global settings, enter the figures (meters or inches) using the functions & operations buttons (item C pages 4 and 6 of the manual). Save the settings by pressing the left menu navigation button to work back to the main menu screen. Make a note of these measurements, as the SP3 (or any processor) can lose or reset them, for example in a power blip.
2. Use the pink noise generator in the SP3 and measure the level with your sound level meter (mounted to a tripod or otherwise placed at your listening position); you want the same level from all speakers initially. Adjust the speaker levels in the SP3 menu. You'll want a fairly high level, about 55-70 db on the Radio Shack analog meter. I have not found the meter useful for calibrating my subs and use the Velodyne built-in EQ software. Adjust to taste; I increased my surrounds 1.5 db. Make a note of these measurements. You enter these settings for each source by choosing Source Setup from the main menu screen; you can enter speaker size, level, and crossover, among other parameters. Use the buttons noted above to change and save settings, and write them down.
3. If desired, adjust speaker angles with the Genelec app, using the laser pointer to confirm that the "toe-in" angle for each points to your listening position: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/speakerangle/id549033688?mt=8. You'll mainly use this for your FL/FR front speakers and RL/RR back speakers.
This should get you a long way to your desired outcome. You'll likely wish to do a bit of tweaking. Again, the other forum participants should have some excellent recommendations.
The SP3 is a superb product, and I hope you enjoy it greatly. Best wishes for many hours of happy listening.
Rich
________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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I should clarify, SpotlightAudio, that the level I refer to below is set via the SP3 main volume control and does not refer to the speaker level settings menu.
"You'll want a fairly high level, about 55-70 db on the Radio Shack analog meter."
My Radio Shack analog sound level meter requires a reasonably high volume level to be at its most accurate. You'll find lots of correction tables for this meter on the web; here's a place to start: http://www.avsforum.com/t/505236/spl-meter-correction-tables. This may not be necessary for the digital meters, but AudioCircle forum participants will likely have experience with this matter.
Best fishes,
Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley
The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130
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Thanks Rich, it gives me a place to start. Just no time yet.
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If anyone is interested, there is a new firmware update available. 2013.10e
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I have not looked at it - any ideas on what was changed/upgraded/corrected?
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The release notes below note the changes/updates/corrections, BrystonFan.
Rich
______________
Whiney Napa Valley
Release Notes: SP3 Firmware 2013.10e 25-Oct-2013
(test release "beta")
File: SP3.bin
Note: updating SP3 firmware may cause re-defaulting of an existing user setups, or may cause EEPROM error warnings, if some new parameters are not initialized. If this happens, initialize new parameters manually or run DEFAULT EEPROM option in MISCELLANEOUS, then re-Standby the unit and repower. A correct speaker configuration should be re-entered manually after an upgrade. If the firmware is older than 2012.05e, it is recommended to upgrade in 2 steps, first to 05e.
Description of Changes (since release 2013.08b):
Added RS232 command EDID
Created project scripts to automate firmware releases.
Adjusted Dolby Vol IRL and MasterVolume scaling for Dd cert.
Removed Dolby Vol IRL and ORL as user parameters
Fixed DRC Line and RF (made LFE not downmix) in Dolby
Renamed 5.1-->7.1 back re-creation modes to conform to Dolby. Allowed only "PassThru","DdD EX","PL2xMusic" and "PL2xMovie", SM03 mapped to SM05 and SM06 mapped to SM04. Removed "Prologic" surround mode from the front panel, on Dolby recommendation. 2013.08c
Fixed incorrect 2/2.x instead of 2/2/1.x format display
Fixing lip-sync bug causing loss of decoder lock, auto cleared on source change, change DEL engine units to ms which makes it independent on out samp rate.
Made speaker distance screen live.
Debugged RS232 auto feedback after LMOD changes
Changed PLIIxMusic/Movie display into more Dolby compliant "DdPL2x Mus" and "DdPL2x Cin" on Dolby request.
Made volume dB/% unit selection applying also to 4-th line idle screen display, in addition to large digit display
Fixed SciAtl cable box issue 2013.08d
Fixed lipsync loss of Dolby & DTS detection bug.
Added yellow standby LED blink after Setup web page edit, to indicate a pending 30s flash verify+save+reboot process.
Adding auto feedback following a change between LMOD 2->6 and 6->8
Changed STBY_OSCDIV from NOPLL back to _64 (reversing 533) to prevent loss of RS232 in standby.
Fixed rows 1,2 display in zone and menus, on vol change
Added ZONE reminder in top upper display, in ZONE mode.
Blocked MAIN/MUTE buttons while large volume digits are displayed, to prevent accidental muting.
Made A/D SAMP RATE factory default to 96k and D/A SAMP MAXdefault to 192k for all sources.
Factory default for Ethernet-In-Standby option is set to ON. 2013.09a
Adjusted Dolby Volume calibration constants, and made LIPSYNC parameter non-volatile. 2013.09d
Combined digital input gain, general volume setting, Dolby Volume digital and analog volume parameters.
Adjusted Dolby Volume gain parameters to comply with Dolby. 2013.09f
Fixed 192k sample rate gain and switching bug in Dolby Volume 2013.09g
Changed DEFAULT_DLYSCALE from -93 to -97 and fixed factory default HDMIDLY.
Changed Dolby Volume user interface on Dolby request. Modeler must be always ON,
Leveler=HIGH/LOW/OFF option moved to Dolby Vol screen, Calib Offs debugged,
Mid/Side selection removed, extended RS232 command DDVL . 2013.10b
Note: releases from 2013.10b on, have both DTS and Dolby certifications!
Fixed LMOD forcing passthru, issue.
Prevent blank screen between src switching, made temporary idle screen persist in low brightness during active source select/reselect.
Fixed MDSL and LMOD not auto feedback'ing after source change
Fixed TEST remote command feedback, added TEST autofeedback
Fixed MSRC auto feedback'ing when issued from the web interface
Changed HDMI A-OUT selection
Changed MISC--> ETH RST option to executing by left arrow instead of right arrow.
2013.10c
NOISE TEST - cancelling pending volume inc/dec command when speaker channel change is imminent
Fixed slow recovery of C after Dd 2.0 -->5.1 format change. 2013.10d
Added SURR RETRY parameter (normally 4) in MISC and in GlobPar.surr_retry. To
prevent persistent retry dropouts on errors, or too frequent DSP A,B unsync errors, set it to 0.
Included new hdmi.hex file (version 39/00001027) in the release package (can be manually programmed through MISC-->UPDATE MENU).
Fixed not returning to idle screen after remote noise test in auto. 2013.10e
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When I upgrade to the new firmware will I lose most of my settings?
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No, but it's good to check all of them.
It's less work than you probably think, if you have made a note of the settings before, which I always recommend.
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If any of you dig deep enough to see that there is also an HDMI firmware (version 39 aka 1027) update imbedded in this release, I'd advise you not apply the HDMI piece of it. I did and the results were not very good. I knew how to back it out and return to the prior HDMI firmware version so, no harm done. The release notes for the HDMI firmware do state this version is untested so, I knew I could be in for some unexpected results if I applied it.
So that nobody panics, the HDMI firmware installation requires a deliberate set of actions on the owners part after the 2013.10e firmware is installed. It won't be applied simply by applying the 2013.10e firmware.
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Would you elaborate on the results?
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If any of you dig deep enough to see that there is also an HDMI firmware (version 39 aka 1027) update imbedded in this release, I'd advise you not apply the HDMI piece of it. I did and the results were not very good. I knew how to back it out and return to the prior HDMI firmware version so, no harm done. The release notes for the HDMI firmware do state this version is untested so, I knew I could be in for some unexpected results if I applied it.
So that nobody panics, the HDMI firmware installation requires a deliberate set of actions on the owners part after the 2013.10e firmware is installed. It won't be applied simply by applying the 2013.10e firmware.
how do you update the hdmi?
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how do you update the hdmi?
From the Release Notes, "Included new hdmi.hex file (version 39/00001027) in the release package (can be manually programmed through MISC-->UPDATE MENU)."
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I wanted to add a couple of important notes relating to this latest firmware update on SP3 2013 10e. Thanks to those that noticed the HDMI separate update. I had missed that in the release notes and had not applied it as a result. I'm glad now I have not done so.
I've had my SP3 now for over 2 years (one of the early deliveries) and have seen nearly 20 firmware updates since the beginning. As much as I applaud the SP3 for its superlative sound quality for both music and home theatre I have been severely disappointed in the quality of the firmware for this unit and how many problems it has had since the beginning. This 10e release is the first one that actually seems to be working well in my system.
A couple of problems I was plagued with for the past 2 years have now been fixed in this version. I'm menitoning them here as there may be others experiencing similar issues and they are not well described in the release notes. They are:
1. I'm a Rogers CISCO 8642HD DVR user for TV watching for many years and since I got the SP3 I could not figure out why I could not get Dolby Digital 5.1 audio from the HDMI interface when connected one of the Bryston SP3 HDMI ports. I could only get 2-channel audio even though I know the Rogers CISCO DVR can deliver it. I was forced to use the Toslink feed to get full surround so I assumed it was one of the many bugs in the Rogers CISCO DVR. I even posted a question on this in the Rogers online forum and I seemed to be the only one experiencing this problem. People with typical $ 500 HDMI receivers were not having this problem. This problem is now fixed with this latest Bryston SP3 firmware release.
2. I have also been using a computer as my media source for everything for CD music, DVD playback and blu-ray playback for a long time now as well and have been using an HDMI interface for blu-ray playback in my case using an NVIDIA video card although I've used others as well. Again for the last 2 years I was plagued with a problem where if I switched the SP3 to an SPDIF digital source, either Toslink or coax for instance the HDMI audio signal would drop in the process and could not get it back when I switched back to the HDMI audio feed. This is on a windows-based computer. I had to either power down the SP3 to get it back or use a program utility I found eventually that forced a reset on the NVIDIA video card HDMI output. This was a major nuisance to say the least. Thinking this was just another computer-based HDMI audio driver problem on Windows I submitted a ticket to NVIDIA IN 2012 asking them to fix this bug as it appeared to be. They acknowledged that sometimes this happens with some audio systems but they didn't feel that it was a problem they should fix but gave me a work-around program to help reset the port whenever this happened. This problem is now fixed in this latest SP3 firmware as well.
I wasted so much time thinking these 2 issues were caused elsewhere so it never dawned on me that the SP3 firmware may be the cause. I'm a happy camper that these 2 major nuisances are fixed but am also at the same time very disappointed in the quality of the Bryston firmware. I'm sitll very pleased with the audio quality I get from the Bryston SP3 but not pleased with the number of problems I've seen on the software side of this unit.
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Thanks for the detailed explanations.
I am trying to apply the update but it doesn't seem to be going through. I uploaded the SP3.bin file but it doesn't seem to update. I am trying to get tech support to help me.
David
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I am trying to apply the update but it doesn't seem to be going through. I uploaded the SP3.bin file but it doesn't seem to update.
Are you using firefox to do the update? Had a similar issue with an earlier update, worked with chrome. Stan had put out a note about issues with firefox.
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I upgraded to u2013.10e a few weeks ago using Firefox, no problems. Hopefully, one of these days we will get notification of new firmware/software and just click the upgrade button.
Steve
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Are you using firefox to do the update? Had a similar issue with an earlier update, worked with chrome. Stan had put out a note about issues with firefox.
No. I am using Chrome.
The file starts to upload at 65% (which makes no sense) and then it just disappears. And nothing happens.
So, at the direction of Bryston, I tried first upgrading an older version. That one gets to about 75% and then dies. They think it is my network speed but that doesn't make sense. I am upgrading from a version on my hard drive and my network works for hi res music. How can it not be able to transfer a 73k file?
So, now I have lost my browser GUI and I am still sitting on a version from 2012. Very frustrating (although Mike from tech support has been attentive).
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Seems more and more components we have to update,wasn't but a few years ago you just turn it on and hit play.
Seems this new stuff really doesn't have all the bugs worked out,even my Seagate 2T storage shuts off on my computer and I can't use the BDP-2 unless I go into my computer and mess around a bit to get it to turn back on,plus a few other things that are slow such as click on a song and takes forever to go to playlist.My CDP,insert disc,hit play,game over and no frustration.
Glad my Arcam AV-8 has been flawless for over 6yrs,was thinking of an upgrade but I think I'll wait as it's not broke so I won't change it and it doesn't do updates :thumb:.
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I have my SP3 since early 2012 and have updated the firmware ever since. I am glad with the updates and had no problems with it. I always read the release notes (and so I ask for them, too when asking for new firmware) and e.g. haven't done fiddling with the latest HDMI options.
Of course, it's a pity that modern AV-equipment more like a computer than like good old analogue stuff. Therefore I handle it like that and expect it not behaving in another way. Which means: updates, shortcomings, ...
And that HDMI is a pain in the a... is so true.
As I see it, it's not the producers that are to blame but mainly the complexity, the architecture of the whole and all the protection measures to try to prevent illegal copying.
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As I see it, it's not the producers that are to blame but mainly the complexity, the architecture of the whole and all the protection measures to try to prevent illegal copying.
That, and HDMI itself being a horrible interface (handshaking).
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Seems more and more components we have to update,wasn't but a few years ago you just turn it on and hit play.
I'll take HDMI over the rats nest of crappy and expensive RCA cables anyday. A few years ago we'd have to strategically route power and video and audio cable runs to prevent crosstalk, and work hard to try to control noise floors. HDMI solved much of that.
HDMI isn't perfect, but the SP3 sure makes it sound perfect.
BTW - I have serial number 36 and concur that since the 2012 updates (I update religiously) have had no problems with the unit or its firmware. And no problems with the 1027 HDMI firmware as well.
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With the help of Stan at Bryston I finally got the firmware upgraded.
Can someone explain the new labels for Dolby and DTS? What should I choose if I want all 5.1 sources to play in 7.1?
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Would you elaborate on the results?
Basically: After I applied the HDMI update the SP3 started having problems automatically switching between Dolby and DTS-HD signals. I have several discs where the audio encoding cycles between Dolby digital and DTS-HD. If the disc starts with Dolby, the SP3 will not toggle to DTS-HD when the transitions occurs - continues to show Dolby in the display and no sound even though the Blu ray player is showing DTS-HD on its display. The only way to get sound back is to switch to a different input and then back forcing a HDMI handshake to occur. Once I get DTS-HD audio working then, when the encoding switches back to Dolby, the sound goes mute and, again, have to change inputs to force a HDMI handshake in order to get the SP3 to see the Dolby signal. It may be peculiar to my particular combination of equipment but, I have no way of knowing. I just know the results I'm getting.
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Basically: After I applied the HDMI update the SP3 started having problems automatically switching between Dolby and DTS-HD signals. I have several discs where the audio encoding cycles between Dolby digital and DTS-HD. If the disc starts with Dolby, the SP3 will not toggle to DTS-HD when the transitions occurs - continues to show Dolby in the display and no sound even though the Blu ray player is showing DTS-HD on its display. The only way to get sound back is to switch to a different input and then back forcing a HDMI handshake to occur. Once I get DTS-HD audio working then, when the encoding switches back to Dolby, the sound goes mute and, again, have to change inputs to force a HDMI handshake in order to get the SP3 to see the Dolby signal. It may be peculiar to my particular combination of equipment but, I have no way of knowing. I just know the results I'm getting.
Hi Kosh
What software are you running?
james
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Hi James,
Actually, we've already discussed the subject. I'm Ted. You probably don't associate my handle here with my real name. I've given Stan all the pertinent information such as my equipment, how it's all connected, software levels and a list of Blu-ray discs that can be used as demonstration/test sources. In the interim, OPPO has released a new firmware level for BDP-105. I haven't tried applying the HDMI update in concert with the new OPPO firmware yet. Nothing in the OPPO release notes would indicate they've addressed any HDMI issues with this latest release. So, I'm not expecting any change. However, it there is a change I will definitely let Stan know about it.
Ted
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Hi James,
Actually, we've already discussed the subject. I'm Ted. You probably don't associate my handle here with my real name. I've given Stan all the pertinent information such as my equipment, how it's all connected, software levels and a list of Blu-ray discs that can be used as demonstration/test sources. In the interim, OPPO has released a new firmware level for BDP-105. I haven't tried applying the HDMI update in concert with the new OPPO firmware yet. Nothing in the OPPO release notes would indicate they've addressed any HDMI issues with this latest release. So, I'm not expecting any change. However, it there is a change I will definitely let Stan know about it.
Ted
Ok let me know how it goes. I have the 103.
james
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Ran some additional testing with the latest OPPO firmware release. There were no changes.
The issue of the SP3 not switching between Dolby and DTS-HD persists with the HDMI 1027 firmware. Also, at Stan's request, I tried a variety of HDMI wiring configurations. Serial vs parallel. Using HDMI 1 vs HDMI 2 etc. and nothing changed. HDMI 1027 creates difficulties when applied, configuration not withstanding. With the HDMI 1026 firmware restored and repeating the testing, I still run into a latency issue. The SP3 is slow to switch modes when multi-channel content is presented. It seems to do some hunting for the right format rather than get a clean, immediate lock. Watched the front panel flip from Dolby 2.0 to Dolby 5.1 before it finally identified and locked on to DTS-HD. If the content is 2.0 or down converted to 2.0 it will lock on immediately.
I'll continue to work with Stan and perform any testing/configuring he'd like me to try.
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Kosh - I can confirm that I see something that I believe is similar to you.
I use an HTPC to play my movies and setup playlists to show trailers before the main feature. For months, if I showed a DTS-MA trailer, and then a Dolby TrueHD trailer in succession, I would not get audio on the TrueHD trailer. The main feature, if DTS-MA encoded, would play just fine.
Very recently, I added delay of 4 seconds between each playlist item in my software used to play the trailers and movies (Zoom Player Max v9.0). Now, the SP3 seems to be able to make the switch between DTS-MA and TrueHD and I get audio in all my trailers of different high-def formats when played in succession.
Of course, there's a catch. Now I get a nasty short burst of static (undecoded audio, I assume) when the switch is made. Sounds like hell and really takes away from the "Theater experience."
Did you ever make any progress with Stan on the issue you identified, or the HDMI firmware update issue?
Regarding the HDMI firmware update, I'd really like to apply this update!! I want the SP3 to pick the highest common denominator when 2 screens are attached - I plan to introduce a 3d display to the outputs and I do NOT want to have to disconnect the 2d display to get it to work!
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Of course, there's a catch. Now I get a nasty short burst of static (undecoded audio, I assume) when the switch is made. Sounds like hell and really takes away from the "Theater experience.
Setting the HDMI delay to 0.5 seems to help the problem.
The other weekend my daughter had been playing with the remote and my Oppo was
playing back 2.1 with audio descriptions for Frozen when I turned on the
SP3. When I changed the Oppo back to 7.1 the static noise occurred and continued for over ten seconds until I turned the Bryston off and back on to fix the problem. Stan has given me some more things to try, but I have not had a chance to do the testing yet.
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Thanks cgw - I'll try that too.
I had one case where i launched a multi-channel DTS-MA encoded file from within windows explorer and my SP3 only played static until I closed the player and restarted. Not sure if that was just a random issue with my playback software or related to the SP3 not decoding properly.
Keep us posted with your testing that you and Stan are working on - I'd be very interested to hear what you're tweaking and your results, if you don't mind!
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I have recently updated the firmware to the 2014.07b version and as instructed I have reset the user parameters.
I am now trying to access the control panel of the SP3 with my browser and I am getting the following message.
404: File not found
Use File Package Upload to program it
Any suggestions?
Thanks ! :thumb:
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I have recently updated the firmware to the 2014.07b version and as instructed I have reset the user parameters.
I am now trying to access the control panel of the SP3 with my browser and I am getting the following message.
404: File not found
Use File Package Upload to program it
Any suggestions?
Thanks ! :thumb:
Something probably went wrong with the upload and the internal web source files are corrupt. You may need to access the upload web page directly by typing
http://....../upload
(do not use Firefox)
And then continue to re-upload the file. Afterwards please again re-default eeprom and also redefault tcpip (it is in miscellaneous).
Regards,
Stan
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Something probably went wrong with the upload and the internal web source files are corrupt. You may need to access the upload web page directly by typing
http://....../upload
(do not use Firefox)
And then continue to re-upload the file. Afterwards please again re-default eeprom and also redefault tcpip (it is in miscellaneous).
Regards,
Stan
Thank you for the swift reply!
I have done it but it doesn't work. I can select file to upload but it won't upload. Tried to reset eeprom and tcpip again without results. Any other ideas?
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Thank you for the swift reply!
I have done it but it doesn't work. I can select file to upload but it won't upload. Tried to reset eeprom and tcpip again without results. Any other ideas?
Hi
Email Stan directly and see if he can help.
sbleszynski@bryston.com
james
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I'm (anxiously) awaiting my SP3 this week! I'm planning to connect my BHA-1 so I can listen to TV, movies, and music via headphones on those late nights when everyone else is asleep.
Is there any difference between using the Tape Out jacks and the L/R Aux jacks (if configured for L/R) to my BHA-1? The only thing I could come up with is that the Aux jacks can be balanced. I only have a single sub and a single center channel.
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Is there any difference between using the Tape Out jacks and the L/R Aux jacks (if configured for L/R) to my BHA-1? The only thing I could come up with is that the Aux jacks can be balanced. I only have a single sub and a single center channel.
I believe that while the L/R Aux outputs would be a variable output controlled by the SP3 volume control, the Tape Out outputs would be a fixed non-attenuated line level signal, and in my mind would be preferable so that the volume setting of the BHA-1 would be independent and unaffected by the current setting of the SP3 volume control.
Another thought is that if the L/R Aux outputs were used in an effort to control the headphone volume with the SP3 to take advantage of using a remote control, that incrementing the volume might take the SP3 out of Mute which was enabled to silence the speakers (and assuming that a Muted SP3 still has a live output at the Tape Out jacks)?
Steve
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Steve, good point! I should have thought about the L/R Aux NOT being at unity gain! Tape loop it is!
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James
A final observation. Yesterday, I listened for several hours (most of the day, actually) and compared a Benchmark DAC2, as an analog input, to the SP3 using a digital source (Squeezebox Touch). There really was no difference in the quality of the sound. The SP3 sounded just fine, compared to a $2,000 DAC. The SP3 is fantastic. The Benchmark is going back. Well done, Bryston.
I wonder if the BDA-2 would be a significant improvement on the SP3 two channel performance?
Jim B.
Wilmette, IL.
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James, seems the Bryston FTP site for sp3 firmware updates is not accepting download requests? I have been unable to access the 'current' directory for a few weeks. Have you changed the location?
Rajive
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James, seems the Bryston FTP site for sp3 firmware updates is not accepting download requests? I have been unable to access the 'current' directory for a few weeks. Have you changed the location?
Rajive
Let me check
james
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James,
the JBL SDP 45 Surround Processor and Bryston's SP3 look like siblings. what's the truth about the relationship between these two products???
thanks,
al.
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James,
the JBL SDP 45 Surround Processor and Bryston's SP3 look like siblings. what's the truth about the relationship between these two products???
thanks,
al.
Hi al
We build it for Harmon.
james
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wow! so basically these two products are the same??
al.
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wow! so basically these two products are the same??
al.
Not exactly. The JBL cost $1000 more and has three years less warranty than the SP3.
Steve
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James,
i believe that Bryston offered a trade-in program for SP2 owners in order to get a SP3. if so, what happened to the SP2 units??
al.
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James,
i believe that Bryston offered a trade-in program for SP2 owners in order to get a SP3. if so, what happened to the SP2 units??
al.
They were resold as used stock to dealers but we only got back I think something like 12 units.
james
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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston SP3 Processor Best of 2014
December 2014
Hi Folks,
Bryston is very pleased to announce that our Bryston SP-3 Surround Preamp/Processor has been awarded a BEST OF 2014 AWARD from THE SECRETS OF HOME THEATER MAGAZINE!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=109810)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=109811)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=109812)
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Is there chance of having the SP3 Max more central on the screen when using the iPad.
Also, is there a way to integrate the SP3 and BDP on to one web page so that things like volume control can be on one screen and not two.
Thank you.
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Now I just need to figure out all the settings that make the SP3 and Tri-Center combination so magical...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110436)
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Wow, what a showpiece! Congratulations, sdolezalek! Best wishes for many years of happy listening.
Rich
________________
Whiney Napa Valley
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Wow, what a showpiece! Congratulations, sdolezalek! Best wishes for many years of happy listening.
Rich
________________
Whiney Napa Valley
+1!! - one of the best looking/organized set-ups I've seen
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Unable to select Bal1 and Bal2 for zone output :scratch: Also is there a way to dim the main power led when in the red off mode ?
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Unable to select Bal1 and Bal2 for zone output :scratch: Also is there a way to dim the main power led when in the red off mode ?
Page 6 of the manual indicates:
"F: MAIN / ZONE SELECT
The SP3 can send a different stereo audio source
signal to its ZONE outputs (Zone 2 Out) than to its main
outputs (Single Ended Outputs or Balanced Outputs).
Pressing the MAIN button allows selection of the signal
that will go to the Single Ended Outputs and Balanced
Outputs using the source select buttons (item “G”) while
pressing ZONE allows the same source select buttons to
set the signals that will be sent to the Zone 2 Out outputs)"
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: Also is there a way to dim the main power led when in the red off mode ?
Yes with the newer firmware. Please read the release notes. I think it is part of the miscellanous menu. One of the nice things of the updates as the light was for me to strong, too.
Checked: Indeed along the miscellanous menu: LED STBY and LED FRONT : there the values of the LED's can be changed up to 1/64.
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Ok firmware update needed to dim main power led.Will this update fix the issue with not being able to select the balanced inputs in zone 2 ?
Thanks for the replies .
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James,
does the usb input of the SP3 can now handle 192/24??
al.
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James,
does the usb input of the SP3 can now handle 192/24??
al.
Not yet but we are working on a module that will.
james
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Hi,
There is a new USB Type - C connector that will be the next generation for 3.1 USB specification and I wonder if Bryston has considered them for future product developments?
Ciao, Luigi
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Not yet but we are working on a module that will.
james
Great news! I would love to be a beta tester of this one.
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I have been very pleased with my SP3.
I recently updated the firmware on the HDMI card and I can now pass 4k 60Hz from my HTPC to my Sony 500ES projector through the SP3!
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Gents -
I purchased a second hand SP3 that arrived yesterday. Serial Number 420. I spent the better part of the day installing it and messing around.
I listened to some music and watched some of this season of The Walking Dead streamed from my oppo last night and I couldn't believe the clarity. Dialog was so crisp and clear. I actually jumped a couple of times when the zombies attacked! I listened to War's Cisco Kid album from HD Tracks via the oppo's balanced output and had a huge smile on my face. I still have some playing around to do which I plan to work on tonight. So far i'm amazed. This unit blows away my old McIntosh MX136 which created more of a wall of sound. This unit has such an open and wide soundstage with amazing clarity.
I work from home and the set up is about 20 feet from my desk. I keep wanting to quit working and go listen to more music. Please keep me informed or on your mailing list for any firmware or hardware upgrades. I plan on keeping this one for a long time!
My set up is:
Bryston SP3
Anthem A5
Oppo BDP-105
Aperion Grand Versus (fronts/center)
Aperion Versus (surround)
JL Audio F112
All better cables XLR connects and speaker wires.
Kyle D. Jemtrud
President
Seaside Capital Group
West Palm Beach, FL
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I have a firmware update question.
I updated to the most recent firmware (u2015.04b) today. My SP3 is serial 706.
The notes say the following:
3) 4K HDMI - upgrade to latest HDMI firmware (VERSN ...222A) by executing
MISC -- UPDATE MENU: USR -- SELECT: PROGRAM HDMI. This will add
4K/60Hz/4:2:0 format. To unlock USR submenu press ZONE,DVD,TAPE
I followed those, twice, and do not have a "Program HDMI" option. I only get a Program Keypad option?
- Garrett
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James, is there someone I can email this question to at Bryston? Stan maybe?
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James, is there someone I can email this question to at Bryston? Stan maybe?
Hi
Yes that is a Stan question for sure but he is away till the 24th.
james
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Ah, okay. I'll try him next week then. Do you have an email address for him?
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Ah, okay. I'll try him next week then. Do you have an email address for him?
stanbleszynski@gmail.com
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Hi Folks,
We are getting close to offering a USB upgrade for the SP3 to allow for higher 192/24 bit resolution and looking at DSD capability as well.
Will keep you updated as to the mechanics of replacing the current USB input.
james
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Hi Folks,
We are getting close to offering a USB upgrade for the SP3 to allow for higher 192/24 bit resolution and looking at DSD capability as well.
Will keep you updated as to the mechanics of replacing the current USB inout.
james
Thank you, James. That is very good news.
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What a great idea for a holiday gift to SP3 owners. Especially if it also includes DSD capabilities! Really looking forward to it. Thank you and Happy Holidays to everyone at Bryston. :xmas:
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We are getting close to offering a USB upgrade for the SP3 to allow for higher 192/24 bit resolution and looking at DSD capability as well.
james
Would the DSD capability only be available from the USB input? Or are there plans on accepting DSD from the HDMI inputs? (such as from an Oppo BDP-105)
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James: I see that Bryston has signed on as one of the early adopters of the Roon Ready Hardware program. It would be terrific if part of the SP3 upgrade allowed it to function as a Roon endpoint device, inwhich case the combined PCM192 and ideally 256DSD would make for a huge upgrade to the current SP3 from an audiophile perspective. :green:
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Would the DSD capability only be available from the USB input? Or are there plans on accepting DSD from the HDMI inputs? (such as from an Oppo BDP-105)
James:
I cannot see that this query was ever answered. Will the proposed DSD upgrade encompass the HDMI inputs and has there been any further progress on this upgrade?
Thanks.
Peter
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James:
I cannot see that this query was ever answered. Will the proposed DSD upgrade encompass the HDMI inputs and has there been any further progress on this upgrade?
Thanks.
Peter
Hi Peter
I will check but I believe USB input only.
james
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Has anyone compared the performance of the pre-amp section of the SP3 with that of the BP26 and, if so, with what result?
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James,
the SP3 has an optical output. is it possible to order the SP3 with coax out instead?
al.
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James,
the SP3 has an optical output. is it possible to order the SP3 with coax out instead?
al.
No sorry - the circuit board would have to change,
james
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I haven't seen quite a time no new firmware. The last one I have is: 2015.09.a.
Is this indeed the most recent one?
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Well, if there are no bugs ....
I'd love to see them make the Aux L/R outputs have the ability to be unity gain so I could use them to provide the input for my BHA-1.
My other idea was for Bryston to create a web-based interface to program the SP3, and have the web-based interface upload the information to the SP3. If it's possible, it'd make for a smoother user interface without having to recreate how the SP3 stores data.
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I'd love to see them make the Aux L/R outputs have the ability to be unity gain so I could use them to provide the input for my BHA-1.
Couldn't either pair of tape outputs (Tape Recorder or Digital Video Recorder) be used which would be a fixed unattenuated output (unity gain)?
Steve
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That's what I do. I'd like a balanced output option though.
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I will check but I believe USB input only.
Hi James
Were you able to confirm this either way - ie. if the SP-3 upgrade includes DSD over HDMI or DSD over USB only ?
Ian
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Hi James
Were you able to confirm this either way - ie. if the SP-3 upgrade includes DSD over HDMI or DSD over USB only ?
Ian
Sorry I have not - I am suppose to get a sample SP3 next week with the new USB so I will find out.
james
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Sorry I have not - I am suppose to get a sample SP3 next week with the new USB so I will find out.
james
Ok, thank you James; looking forward to hearing about it in due course...
And speaking of SP-3 upgrades, is the 4k HDMI SP-3 modification both HDR (10 bit) and Dolby Vision (12 bit) compliant ?
Just trying to be doubly future proof ! :-)
Ian
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Ok, thank you James; looking forward to hearing about it in due course...
And speaking of SP-3 upgrades, is the 4k HDMI SP-3 modification both HDR (10 bit) and Dolby Vision (12 bit) compliant ?
Just trying to be doubly future proof ! :-)
Ian
\
Hi Ian
Sorry I do not know - I will forward to Stan
james
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Hello James,
We are considering an SP-3 as our next processor. We have front speakers with built in subs in the front and the surrounds are crossed over with an active crossover. As such, they can handle both bass and a full LFE signal. Does the SP-3 send both the bass signal and full LFE to all speakers identified as full range when it (processor) is set as no subwoofer present? Thanks.
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Hello James,
We are considering an SP-3 as our next processor. We have front speakers with built in subs in the front and the surrounds are crossed over with an active crossover. As such, they can handle both bass and a full LFE signal. Does the SP-3 send both the bass signal and full LFE to all speakers identified as full range when it (processor) is set as no subwoofer present? Thanks.
I think it only sends the .1 channel to the front left and right but I will check with Stan
james
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Hello James,
We are considering an SP-3 as our next processor. We have front speakers with built in subs in the front and the surrounds are crossed over with an active crossover. As such, they can handle both bass and a full LFE signal. Does the SP-3 send both the bass signal and full LFE to all speakers identified as full range when it (processor) is set as no subwoofer present? Thanks.
I just checked it, if SUBWOOFER=OFF then LFE is rerouted through all output speaker channels that are declared as LARGE except Center speaker.
Stan
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Thanks for the prompt reply. We have one more question, does your new HDMI card support HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2? We have 3 4K Ultra-HD sources we are going to be using.
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Hi James,
I noticed there wasn't yet a reply about the upcoming HDMI upgrade board for the SP3. Any news on when the next board with HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 will be available, and how many of the HDMI ports will have it?
- Garrett
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Hi James,
I noticed there wasn't yet a reply about the upcoming HDMI upgrade board for the SP3. Any news on when the next board with HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 will be available, and how many of the HDMI ports will have it?
- Garrett
They tell me all the inputs will be 2.1 and 2.2 but not till late summer.
james
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Who supplies the HDMI board for Bryston?
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Who supplies the HDMI board for Bryston?
MDS
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That's what I suspected. So the reason I ask is that there was a post on a Trinnov forum that early indications are the new cards may be moving from 8 inputs to 7. The Trinnov Altitude32, like the SP3 has 8 inputs and 2 outputs, if this reduction in inputs does happen would you have to redesign your back panel so that units which eventually ship with the new card installed would not have an empty slot or would you just leave things as is.
Apparently Lumagen also uses MDS and their larger units also have 8 inputs so they would be affected as well it would seem.
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Yes we heard the same but I think we would just plug one input rather than the cost for a retro fit needing a new back panel.
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It's a shame they don't seem to be able to continue to build the cards for 8 inputs. It's sucks manufacturers will be forced to go backwards in flexibility for customers as a result.
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Their website still does show an 8 input, 2 output card that can do 4k (on one input and output) - http://www.mds.com/products/hdmivideo/hsr-82/
If they intend to close it out, perhaps those interested could give Bryston some indication as to interest if the card would fit in the unit.
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That would have to be the existing card. According to the info Trinnov received, earliest reveal of the new card could be around CEDIA I beleive. If true it seems Trinnov would look to have incorporation into their units in 2017.
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Just wanted to check in again and see if there was any update on the HDMI board upgrade (HDMI 2.1/HDCP 2.2) possibilities for the SP3?
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Following up on the HDMI upgrade. Is a new board available yet? If so, any pricing? Also, will it be HDMI 2.0a or 2.1 with HDCP 2.2?
For the record, I do not own an SP-3, but I am thinking about buying a used one.
Would it be advisable to wait to see if a board upgrade is available and whether it will definitely work on all older SP-3s or if there will need to be a completely new processor (SP-4)?
Thanks, Al
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Following up on the HDMI upgrade. Is a new board available yet? If so, any pricing? Also, will it be HDMI 2.0a or 2.1 with HDCP 2.2?
For the record, I do not own an SP-3, but I am thinking about buying a used one.
Would it be advisable to wait to see if a board upgrade is available and whether it will definitely work on all older SP-3s or if there will need to be a completely new processor (SP-4)?
Thanks, Al
Hi Al
No not yet. The only difference in the new board is it will offer HDCP on all 7 HDMI inouts where the current board only offers it on number 8 input.
The only question is the new board may require more power so the transformer and power supply section of the SP3 may need to change.
The only reason for an SP-4 would be Dolby Atmos as it requires a bunch more channels.
james
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I've put this question to Mike Pickett but no response, so I'm hoping James or another forum member might help.
My 65" Panasonic Plasma TV (TC-P65ZT60) started turning itself off after an hour or more viewing. When it turns itself off, you can power it up immediately and it operates properly. I've had all of the TV's circuit boards replaced but the problem persists.
One theory is that the SP 3 (or a source component connected to it) is sending the TV a signal causing it to turn off.
Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim
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Some TV's have an "auto-off" or power-save timer. This maybe causing the TV to power down. Usually it would give you an on-screen warning prior to this happening.
Hope you figure it out. That would be a frustrating issue to deal with continually. Usually happens at the good part of whatever your watching :D
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Thanks cliffy-that was the first thing I looked at but all timers are off.
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Thanks James, I have waited this long, might as well hold of a little longer or go in a different direction. I really don't care about atmos or any other height channel bs. I just want to do high quality 5.1 with future proofing that doesn't cost a lot. I can't help thinking that this long excruciating rollout of 4k is some sort of joke on manufacturers and consumers.
Al
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Hi James,
I am offered a SP3 of three to four years old, with the latest firmware. What are the differences with a current SP3?
Thans in advance,
Willy
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Hi James,
I am offered a SP3 of three to four years old, with the latest firmware. What are the differences with a current SP3?
Thans in advance,
Willy
Hi
The newest SP3 has a 4K HDMI board with 2.2 on input 8 and soon a new USB board that can do 192/24.
james
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Will it be easy to install the new HDMI board and the new USB board in an older SP3 when necessary?
Willy
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Will it be easy to install the new HDMI board and the new USB board in an older SP3 when necessary?
Willy
Hi Willy
No not easy as there are lots of changes needed for the conversion.
James
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Hi Willy
No not easy as there are lots of changes needed for the conversion.
James
...how much is this conversion??
al.
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Hi James,
Is there any update on when the new HDMI board with 2.2 HDCP on all 7 HDMI inputs might be coming available? This is becoming a real issue for me now :cry:
Has anyone researched alternatives at all, if this doesn't happen? Don't really want to go to some separate systems for surround and stereo as I love the SP3. You can get some really cheap AV receivers now that will do all the video switching? Or perhaps an external switching matrix's which can feed video to the TV and projector and strip sound to the SP3?
Kind regards
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Hi James,
Is there any update on when the new HDMI board with 2.2 HDCP on all 7 HDMI inputs might be coming available? This is becoming a real issue for me now :cry:
Has anyone researched alternatives at all, if this doesn't happen? Don't really want to go to some separate systems for surround and stereo as I love the SP3. You can get some really cheap AV receivers now that will do all the video switching? Or perhaps an external switching matrix's which can feed video to the TV and projector and strip sound to the SP3?
Kind regards
No sorry we do not know. We are told this fall but so far no word.
james
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Hi
The newest SP3 has a 4K HDMI board with 2.2 on input 8 and soon a new USB board that can do 192/24.
james
Hi James,
Will you be "re-launching" the SP3 to reflect the above improvements when all the "parts" are in?
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Has anyone encountered problems with decoding DTS HD Master Audio signals on the sp3 ?
When fed any other type of signal my sp3 correctly processes the sound out as 2/2/2.0 to match my front, rear and back speaker setup (and no sub).
However, when playing a bluray and the display says something like IN: DTSHD MA 5.1 it also says OUT: 2/2.0 and no matter what buttons I press or settings I change, I can't get sound out of any other channel; its driving me nuts !
Ian
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Has anyone encountered problems with decoding DTS HD Master Audio signals on the sp3 ?
I've recently discovered this review
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/processors/bryston-sp3-processor-review/
which states that the DTS certification does not permit rear channels to be matrixed.
This is odd, because I used to do exactly that with my previous processor (a Classe SSP-800), but also frustrating because most of my blu-rays are in 5.1 !
The article suggests that there may be a workaround, which involves having a subwoofer configured, but I don't understand how this might work (and my subs are not separate, but built-in to my fronts which means I usually have the sub set as "off".
The other option is to switch to PCM and decode in the player, but I'm not keen on switching from the superb processing of the SP-3 to the average-at-best processing of my Samsung UHD deck...
Any ideas folks ?
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James,
would it make sense to offer a "smaller sized" SP3 ?? something like Bryston did with the BDP Pi - a small version of the BDP-2. this new unit don't has to be 1/3rd size. but by reducing inputs and outputs it would be cool to have a ht-processor with Bryston sound quality at lower costs...
al.
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James,
would it make sense to offer a "smaller sized" SP3 ?? something like Bryston did with the BDP Pi - a small version of the BDP-2. this new unit don't has to be 1/3rd size. but by reducing inputs and outputs it would be cool to have a ht-processor with Bryston sound quality at lower costs...
al.
Hi Al
Its difficult in that the number of inputs is not where the cost is in a product like the SP3. The digital circuitry, the power supplies, the discrete output section x 8 is far more expensive to build.
james
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Officially - I do not know if SP1.7's or SP2's will be upgradable. The new HD decoder chips and interface connections will not be available till March or April of this year.
We intended to build the SP3 with all the new technologies available and then try and see if we can filter down these new technologies in a cost effective way to the SP2 and SP1.7. I am hoping we can salvage the analog sections of the SP2 and add a new Digital board to allow for HD formats. At some point the technology changes in fundamental ways which simply negate the ability to adapt older technologies to new. I truly do not know if the filter down will be doable until we have an SP3 working and can assess what is possible.
We are at least a year away from a finished SP3.
Hope this helps.
james
When you are considering immersive formats consider including Auro 3D. I know they don't have a lot of software available but the upmixer is superior to the other formats, especially for music:
http://www.avsforum.com/auro-3d-music-upmix-demo-stormaudio-isp-3d-16-elite-prepro-ces-2017/
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Can someone remind me how I copy settings from one source to another, or make them universal?
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Just got possession of a used JBL Synthesis SDP-45, which is known to be a rebadged Bryston SP-3.
As I need to convert it from 120 to 220/240 Volts for a use without a step-down transformer, I opened up the lid and was surprised to see that not only the faceplate has been rebranded, even the power supply boards bear the Harman logo. ;)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255469)
So I am wondering, how different is a SDP-45 compared to an SP-3?