[stump4545]

Thinking about picking up a pair of Salk TL's.

Just curious if any TL owner would share their thoughts on the sound of the TL's?

Any reason for buying the TL's over the HT3 besides cost?

thanks in advance.

[DMurphy]

Hi   Just to make sure--you're talking about the HT2 TL's, right?

[stump4545]

Yes, the HT2- TL's.

[Nuance]

The on reason I can think to buy the HT2 TL's over the HT3's is that the HT2 TL's are much more efficient and don't need as much power to control the bass woofer(s).  The HT3, on the other hand, should be drive with as much power as possible IMO.  Other than that, the HT3 is probably superior.

[oneinthepipe]

The HT3 have deeper bass extension than the HT2-TL, and Dennis previously stated that a three-way design would have less midrange distortion than a two-way design.  The TL design might make the HT2-TL more flexible for placement.  Otherwise, the HT2-TL is more efficient, as Nuance stated, but if room placement and amplification aren't issues, the HT3 would otherwise seem to be a better speaker, although I haven't heard the HT3.

Jim would be the most helpful, I believe, when he knows about your room, amplification, etc.

I love my HT2-TL.

[DMurphy]

Hi  I'm not sure I ever used the word distortion in comparing 2 and 3-ways, although that term is broad enough to cover just about anything.  I think Jeff Bagby commented on the possibility of audible midrange distortion caused by the greater cone excursions in 2-ways.  In my experience, the difference is more in how "full" the midrange sounds with a dedicated mid compared with a double-duty woofer-mid.  But you have to implement an extra crossover right smack in the middle of the voice range, so that's a potential downside to 3-way sound.   Again, blind tests are the only way to half-way resolve the issue. 

[Jeff B.]

Hi  I'm not sure I ever used the word distortion in comparing 2 and 3-ways, although that term is broad enough to cover just about anything.  I think Jeff Bagby commented on the possibility of audible midrange distortion caused by the greater cone excursions in 2-ways.  In my experience, the difference is more in how "full" the midrange sounds with a dedicated mid compared with a double-duty woofer-mid.  But you have to implement an extra crossover right smack in the middle of the voice range, so that's a potential downside to 3-way sound.   Again, blind tests are the only way to half-way resolve the issue.

Intermodulation distortion at higher frequencies is certainly connected with increased excursions. However, the question becomes "when is it audible?" We audiophiles strain at a a lot of gnats. Three-ways can have cleaner mids, but are much more difficult to design. Two-ways can sometimes be more coherent due to not having the other crossover point in the middle of the vocal range. We have all heard two-ways that sounded fabulous. I listened to a pair of HT2-TL's cranked up pretty loud and did not feel it was lacking in anything in the midrange.

[earthbound]

I was so blown away by the sound of the HT2-TL that I actually forgot to listen to the HT3 at AKFest! Also helping me to forget was probably the fact that I had already ordered the HT2-TL and there was no way I could afford the HT3 anyway, or especially the HT4, which BTW I did listen to.

[Nuance]

If I had the choice, I'd go HT2 TL's.  They will be easier to drive and place, plus they are better looking IMO.  The only thing I'd take over them is the HT4's. 

If you are leaning more towards the HT2 TL's, go for it.  You won't regret it!

[stump4545]

i'm leaning towards the HT2-TL's because i have a difficult room with a lot of hard surfaces my only concern is not going with the HT3 now,  and then later getting the upgrade itch. 

[audiotom]

I own V3's and HT3s
both are great speakers
my v3s are merged with the monster sub and a jl audio f113 sub (serious)
I've also heard a friend's HT2TLs

if it were me and I could stretch
it would definitely be for the HT3's
these really don't have any compromises
seamless crossover, disappear in room, image in spades, tonally brilliant, great definition and seperation of instruments
and you'd have to go a lot farther up just to compete with them

[stump4545]

my room conditions are less then ideal.  cathedral type ceilings, no acoustical treatments aka wife factor, open side wall into adjoining room, and my speakers would have to be right up against the front wall with no space from it.  being this is also my family room and these are my room conditions would you still go with the HT3's?

[funkmonkey]

sounds like overall more volume to fill with sound, and pressurize with bass, to me at least.  Perhaps the HT3 would be the better choice.  They will not have any issues with a large room, or connected rooms as your case may be. 

I have not heard the HT2-TL but I surmise that they are excellent.  Are you going to use a sub? (music and/or HT).  If so, I would get HT2-TL and not worry about it anymore.

Basically, if your fearful of "upgradeitis", and can afford them get the HT3.  If you want very near their performance, and to save a few bucks, get the HT2-TL.

Good luck.  I don't think you will be disappointed with either choice

[oneinthepipe]

my room conditions are less then ideal.  cathedral type ceilings, no acoustical treatments aka wife factor, open side wall into adjoining room, and my speakers would have to be right up against the front wall with no space from it.  being this is also my family room and these are my room conditions would you still go with the HT3's?

To answer your question, no, I would not only not go with the HT3, I would not go with any other speaker.  How can you place a $6000.00 pair of speakers against the front wall.  I have a pair of Linn speakers that are advertised to prefer placement close to the front wall, and that is just a big crock of advertising. The speakers actually work pretty well about 3' from the front wall, if you can get passed the fingernails on chalkboard tweeter.  Having said all that, Jim might be able to front port a pair of HT3 that will work better closer to the front wall.  (Jim, what about a front "ported" TL cabinet?)

Up against the front wall, the HT3 just won't produce their best sound. Whichever speaker you get, they really need to be out from the front wall and away from corners and any other obstructions, such as audio cabinets/furniture that "boxes" the speakers in.  I think that the HT2-TL might be more forgiving than the HT3 being placed close to the front wall, but neither speaker will produce the sound quality that they could otherwise produce.  Why can't you pull them out 2 or 3 or 4 feet?  They are beautiful speakers, and they look nice a few feet out from the front wall where their beauty can be appreciated.  They won't even get noticed if they are tucked away on either side of a TV or some cabinet, especially with something else on the other side.  Maybe let your wife pick out the veneer.  There are some veneers that beg to be displayed.  If you are worried about kids, there are tactics that work.  PM me.  I don't want to say anything publicly that could be misunderstood.   

BTW, my wife initially hated having the speakers out from the wall, especially when they were in our living room.  She used to ask me why the speakers have to be out in the MIDDLE of the room.  Now, although she doesn't like the music that I listen to, she seems to think of the speakers more like art.  I like "Audio Sculpture" more than furniture grade cabinets (the HT4 exemplifies that concept, I believe).  I previously had a pair of ST RT, but the appearance of the HT2-TL, in the same veneer, is more compelling because the speakers are larger and the W18 add more contrast.  I think that the comments from visitors to our home about the beauty of the speakers encouraged her change in perception.  Also, when Dennis came to our home, she knew that we had something special.  My advice, if you have an ambivalent spouse, is to persuade Dennis to visit, and your troubles will disappear. After Dennis left, my wife asked me what he thought, almost like she was asking me if Dennis was going to let us keep the speakers.  I told her that Dennis said that she needed to build me a larger room.  She didn't believe  me.  Regardless, the speakers' importance, in her mind, increased 50 fold.  If Dennis isn't available, perhaps Dennis impersonators can be obtained.  (I am a bit tired. When I wake up in the AM, I will probably cringe at what I just wrote.)

Since Dennis and George visited me in April '09, we have hired a nanny/housekeeper, which I had delayed as long as possible, not because of the expense, but because I was worried that she would damage my speakers and electronics.  We made a rule.  She is not allowed in my audio room, i.e., dining room, particularly when she is walking through with vacuum hose wands, mops, etc.  It turns out, when she saw the broadband acoustic panels hanging everywhere, she asked me what instruments I played (none), because her brother has a home-based recording/practice studio which has wall-to-wall-to-ceiling acoustic treatments.  I let her in my room, now, but only when we listen to some music for a few minutes.  BTW, Jim, she thinks the speakers are beautiful, and Dennis, she thinks that sound is "like being there."  Our nanny knows music.

[stump4545]

ok lets just say i was able to pull my speakers 1 foot from the front wall and jim said he was able to front port both speakers, given my other room conditions HT3 or HT2 TL?

[Rocket]

Hi,

What is the minimum watts that is required for the ht3?

Regards

Rod

[Nuance]

What oneinthepipe said!  +1...except about the nanny.  We don't have one of those. 

Seeing that you situation is very unique, YOU need to decide which is best for your room.  We'll all have our opinions, but it's your room, your gear and your money.  I say make the decision based on what Jim Salk recommends.  Period.

[turkey]

ok lets just say i was able to pull my speakers 1 foot from the front wall and jim said he was able to front port both speakers, given my other room conditions HT3 or HT2 TL?

Can you store the speakers next to the wall and pull them out when you're going to start a listening session?

It won't matter so much for just background listening, but when you sit down in front of the speakers and want to concentrate on listening to some music, it will sound much better if you can pull the speakers out into the room and away from the wall.

Note that if you're going to do this, you may want to look into casters or some kind of flat feet for your speakers rather than the cones or spikes that are generally used.

[TJHUB]

ok lets just say i was able to pull my speakers 1 foot from the front wall and jim said he was able to front port both speakers, given my other room conditions HT3 or HT2 TL?

I think my HT2 TL's are about 14" off my front wall and they measure very well with a big bass boost at around 38Hz.  I haven't had any time to play with speaker placement, but I have no complaints regarding the sound quality of the speakers and I am exceptionally picky.  If I had to guess, the bass boost I have is related more to the room size and shape far more than distance of the front wall.  I have frequency response measurements and pics I could post later tonight. 

I did some speaker placement testing with my previous speakers (B&W 805S's) and found that the frequency response changed very little when moving the speakers closer or farther away from the front wall.  The frequencies that changed the most was actually the treble region around 10kHz and up.  This was an odd finding as I was actually expecting the low end to change more.  Whatever?

My point for posting this information is that I personally think the HT2 TL?s would work just fine close to the front wall as the lower frequencies may not be all that affected.  There is no need to try and move the port from the rear to the front (I don?t think this is possible on the TL design anyway).  All you need to do is allow enough room for the port to breath; a few inches should be plenty.

To me, what is most affected by placing speaker too close to the front wall is imaging.  You will absolutely lose depth in your soundstage.  I would also imagine that the increase in sound reinforcement (or timing maybe) from the front wall could be an issue if the room is bright and revealing.  If the room is not, I wouldn?t think this to be an issue either.  Room treatments, especially directly behind the speakers could do wonders as well.  Just make certain they are a minimum of 4?-6? thick.  (Please note that I don?t have any room treatments as I think my room sounds great without them.)

As far as whether to go HT2 TL or HT3, it depends upon the sound you are looking for on the low end.  I have not yet heard the HT3, but I can safely assume it?s very similar to my HT2 TL?s.  Arguing this point, the difference should be greatest on the low end (<50Hz).

I?ve owned my HT2 TL?s since mid-March.  I have listened to them with and without my sub (SVS PB13-Ultra).  To be honest, I could listen to the HT2 TL?s forever without a sub and I could be happy.  The bass is very articulate and musical.  There seems to be plenty even in my ~6,500cF room.  However, every time I decide to run my sub again for kicks, I generally find the sound to improve for the most part.  I say ?most part? because the improvement is not for all the music I listen to most.  But for most of the music, I like the more weighty bass sound from my sub.  I?m not certain if it?s just that the sub adds more depth because it plays deeper, or if it?s more that the sub has slightly more overhang and sounds thicker and more present.  I hope I?m describing this so that everyone understands?

I?d also like to throw out one last comment.  I personally don?t like the idea of my main speakers playing from around 80Hz and lower.  Those frequencies are HUGELY affected by the room and speaker placement.  As such, how does one get a relatively flat frequency response without some sort of EQ?  Room treatments?  No way!  This is my living room and not a dedicated listening room.  What I think works perfectly is running my main speakers high-passed at around 80Hz and adding in an articulate sub that ideally placed and EQ?d for the room.  This works PERFECTLY!  You may be shocked at how speaker placement in a given room can cause severe suck-outs.  I don?t know about all of you, but my main speakers have to be in certain locations for imaging, but this is not the ideal placement for low end reproduction.  I have an acquaintance (merrymaid) who was experiencing 2 terrible suck-outs from his sub.  All he had to do was switch the sub from one side of the room to the other and the suck-outs were gone.  How do you do this with your main speakers?

Of course this is all of my own personal findings and as always YMMV. 

 

[Nuance]

^ Very well stated, Terry.

So...ah, where are those measurements?