[mchuckp]

Alright this is me: 

I was hoping to get some input from some of you.  I'm going to AK Fest this weekend and will hear the STs vs the HT2-TLs for myself and will hopefully feel confident in what I decide to do.

Here's what I'm contemplating.  I'm on a fix budget with a little flexibility due to an understanding wife.   I've been eyeing Salk speakers and Van Alstine components for quite a while now.  I got a good deal on a Van Alstine Insight+SL preamp from Frank.  So that is already going to be part of the equation.  So I'm debating springing for some HT2-TLs which leaves me with basically NO money for an amp.  OR getting the STs and freeing up plenty of money for an amp and likely go with a Van Alstine Insight 240 and maybe even have enough money for a Van Alstine DAC (due to AK Fest discounts).  If I go with the HT2-TLs, I'm tempted to try the Emotiva UPA-2 or find something used for around the same price ($300).

To recap:
I will be using an AVA Insight+SL preamp.
Option #1: STs and roughly $300 amp (new or used)
Option #2: HT2-TLs and AVA 240 amp and possibly an AVA DAC

My main interest is top notch performance for music on vinyl and CDs on rock oriented recordings.

Who's got opinions? 

[oneinthepipe]

If it were me, I would get the HT2-TL, and I would work toward upgrading the amp later.  I think that the amp should be selected based upon the speakers' requirements (or you can save up for an Insight Double 440H, and then you can drive anything).  While neither the HT2-TL or ST is very demanding, the HT2-TL can handle a lot more power, and with the Insight gear's dynamic range, having some reserve power is a good thing.

The Insight+ SL is a great preamp. When my Insight SL was being upgraded, I was using the pre-out from an old NAD integrated amp.  The sound was awful.  It didn't matter what DAC or amp that I was using because I wasn't going to get same quality of sound using the NAD pre-out.

1) speakers, 2) preamp, 3) DAC/CDP, and 4) amp (provided that the non-upgraded amp has enough juice to drive the speakers)

Don't forget room treatments, if needed.  Don't let anyone tell you that room treatments are snake oil.  Frank, IIRC, has a fully treated listening room (the entire ceiling is treated with acoustic materials, and the front wall, at least, is treated with an acoustic "wallpaper").

[rahimlee54]

I'd go for more speaker, amps are easily changeable, but a good speaker will do more for your sound than the best amp on a bad speaker.  Either way it is going to be good.

Do you have any amp at all?

[jsalk]

I think you got some good advice.  The better the speaker, the better the sound.  Speakers will always be the least accurate part of any system and the limiting factor where sound quality is concerned. 

While many people will tell you that you need a high-end amp to get the most out of our speakers (which only makes sense), I always recommend getting the best speakers you can and not worry about anything else.  You can always upgrade amps later, but you can enjoy great sound right from the start, regardless of what you drive them with.

Perhaps a little story will illustrate the point.

A few years ago I received an email asking my advice.  The question posed was which amp would be better, a $1200 receiver or a $1500 receiver, and which of our speakers should be coupled with it to result in a total system cost of $2500.

Since this person was asking my advice, I told him I would give him an answer although I didn't really expect he would agree.  At the time, our Veracity HT1's were selling for $1900.  I told him to purchase a pair of HT1's, purchase a used Panasonic XR-45 digital receiver for about $250 and pocket the rest.  I told him if he did that, he would have the best $2500 he would ever have heard.

He followed my advice and was extremely happy.

The point is, your system will never sound better than the speakers you purchase, regardless of your source equipment.  So if you want the best sound possible, buy the best speakers you can.  Although certainly not unimportant, everything else is secondary.

- Jim

[mchuckp]

I think you got some good advice.  The better the speaker, the better the sound.  Speakers will always be the least accurate part of any system and the limiting factor where sound quality is concerned. 

While many people will tell you that you need a high-end amp to get the most out of our speakers (which only makes sense), I always recommend getting the best speakers you can and not worry about anything else.  You can always upgrade amps later, but you can enjoy great sound right from the start, regardless of what you drive them with.

Perhaps a little story will illustrate the point.

A few years ago I received an email asking my advice.  The question posed was which amp would be better, a $1200 receiver or a $1500 receiver, and which of our speakers should be coupled with it to result in a total system cost of $2500.

Since this person was asking my advice, I told him I would give him an answer although I didn't really expect he would agree.  At the time, our Veracity HT1's were selling for $1900.  I told him to purchase a pair of HT1's, purchase a used Panasonic XR-45 digital receiver for about $250 and pocket the rest.  I told him if he did that, he would have the best $2500 he would ever have heard.

He followed my advice and was extremely happy.

The point is, your system will never sound better than the speakers you purchase, regardless of your source equipment.  So if you want the best sound possible, buy the best speakers you can.  Although certainly not unimportant, everything else is secondary.

- Jim

Thanks for the advice Jim!  I really wanted to get the AVA Insight+ as I've heard it has a killer headphone amp and a great phono stage in a single unit which are important to me.  Now that this one is in the bag, I can figure out what else I need.  I'm so freakin' anxious for this weekend to come.  I just need to test my ear against your speakers and figure out what makes the most sense for me.  Talk soon.

[oneinthepipe]

Thanks for the advice Jim!  I really wanted to get the AVA Insight+ as I've heard it has a killer headphone amp and a great phono stage in a single unit which are important to me.  Now that this one is in the bag, I can figure out what else I need.  I'm so freakin' anxious for this weekend to come.  I just need to test my ear against your speakers and figure out what makes the most sense for me.  Talk soon.

According to Frank, the speakers will be driven by some configurations of an Ultra SL preamp, an Insight+ EC preamp, an Insight+ DAC, an Ultra DAC, a T8 preamp, an Ultra Double 550, an Ultra Double 350, an Insight+ Bridge, an Insight Control Amplifier, and an Insight 440 power amp.     

[DMurphy]

There's a lot of good advice being handed out, but what really matters is what you think of the HT2TL vs the STRT at Audio Karma.  I'm looking forward to comparing them as much as anyone else.  Without that first-hand experience, I don't think there is any easy answer to your question, other than you can't go wrong with Frank's amps no matter what. 

[EDS_]

IMO - buy the less expensive speakers now. Come upgrade time a used pair of Songtowers will sell in a flash for a good price.

[Nuance]

There's a lot of good advice being handed out, but what really matters is what you think of the HT2TL vs the STRT at Audio Karma. 

Bingo.  Personally, I'd go with the HT2's and cheaper amps, but I've already heard them; you have not.  The best advice you can get is to listen to both at AK Fest and decide for yourself.  Your own ears are the best determining tools you have.

Enjoy, and do let us know what you decide. 

[earthbound]

. . . The point is, your system will never sound better than the speakers you purchase, regardless of your source equipment.  So if you want the best sound possible, buy the best speakers you can.  Although certainly not unimportant, everything else is secondary.

- Jim

Agree completely. I definitely pushed my budget in ordering the HT2-TLs but I wanted something with a little more bass extension than the ST without adding a sub. The only thing nagging at me a bit is that I haven't even heard these speakers yet! I am, however, somewhat of an expert review reader/interpreter and I have to say that I have never seen such a positive response to any speaker anywhere near this price range. I'm not sure yet if I can make it to AKfest but I'll see what I can do.