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Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Abbingdon Music Research / iFi => Topic started by: TF1216 on 27 Dec 2017, 04:30 pm

Title: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 27 Dec 2017, 04:30 pm
Preview – Pro series - part 1/5
Pro iDSD
Is there anything like it?

Introduction

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173421)

Over the past few years iFi audio has delighted audiophiles and confounded industry experts with its growing range of high-quality, low-cost and very portable digital-to-audio converters (DACs). Music fans on the move could at last listen to Direct Stream Digital (DSD) on well-built portable devices that didn’t cost the Earth (£500 and under in fact).

Now, iFi is set to rock the digital world again with the launch of iDSD Pro, a ground-breaking Quad DAC that will be used across the next generation of iFi products. Yes, it’s taken a while to come to market but, boy, has it been worth the wait! There is simply nothing like it.

Coming up next, you'll be able to feast your eyes on our Pro iDSD jaw-dropping features. Rest assured that very shortly you'll see what we mean.

Stay tuned!

P.S. This might look like one fine Xmas tease and it is. But then again, it's so much more on top of that, things are going to happen very soon.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 27 Dec 2017, 04:33 pm
Preview – Pro series - part 2/5
Jaw-dropping features

1) Quad DAC section

The iDSD Pro uses a Quad ‘stack’ of the iFi Bit-Perfect DSD and DXD DAC by Burr-Brown in a custom ‘interleaved’ configuration. This enables a total of eight pairs of differential signals to be used and mixed – that’s four pairs of signals per channel.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173422)

While the iDSD Pro includes field programmable gate arrays (FPGA) for digital remastering duties – where we believe they excel – there are also external D/A sections, with a limited number of elements. In the iDSD Pro we use four interleaved 64-Element converters, to create a 256-Element DAC per channel, manufactured at high level of precision.

All signals to the DACs are re-clocked with the low-jitter Global Master Timing® master clock derived from the AMR DP-777.

2) Studio DSD Remastering

Bit-Perfect or Upsampled

All digital processing is Bit-Perfect, without employing an Asynchronous Sample Rate Converter (ASRC), or by up-sampling unless digital filters are explicitly selected. A variety of digital filters (including Bit-Perfect mode without digital filtering) are available.

The iDSD Pro supports both USB 3.0 Type B connections. All inputs (including USB) are galvanically isolated and the USB input is self-powered. The SPDIF inputs use technology derived from the AMR DP-777 including a new, solid-state implementation of the HD-VDi, memory buffer and the Global Master Timing® clock system.

Click on this link for more information on iFi’s SPDIF solution:

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_spdif.html

Next Generation X-Core 200

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173423)

The iDSD Pro features the new XMOS XU216 X-Core 200 Series 16-Core processor with a maximum of 2,000 MIPS (two billion instructions per second) calculation power in dual-issue mode as a USB interface. It can decode signals from all Inputs, from USB (up to 768kHz/DSD512), AES/EBU or S/PDIF (up to 192kHz/24Bit) and Wifi/Network/Mass-storage (up to 192kHz/32Bit).

Stay tuned!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 2 Jan 2018, 07:36 pm
Preview – Pro series - part 3/5
Even more jaw-dropping features

Hi-Res Network Audio

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173708)

As the flagship in iFi Audio’s formidable fleet of DACs, the iDSD Pro is extremely highly specified. In addition to traditional inputs, it features:

The iDSD Pro gives you plenty of options for playing music online. Here are a few of them:
Play direct from SD card

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173709)

Zero Jitter for all inputs

For all inputs data is sent to the aforementioned Memory Buffer, which iFi describes as ‘large’ and ‘elastic’. Here it is de-jittered to eliminate any transmission of source jitter to the DAC output. The data from the Memory Buffer is further re-clocked by with the low-jitter Global Master Timing® clock, which also drives the X-Core 200 & FPGA.

Click on this more information on iFi’s jitter solution:

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_jitter.html

Studio Remastering

While the X-Core 200 is favourable for USB Audio, AES/EBU/SPDIF decoding and decoding MQA, DSD, it is not the best platform for DSP, digital filters and PCM-to-DSD conversion. This is where the iDSD Pro’s Studio DSD Remastering system comes in. It excels at handling the Upsampling and Digital Filter duties and has at its heart the Crysopeia FPGA Digital Engine for digital filtering and PCM to DSD remastering, up to DSD1024.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173710)

Upsampling in hardware, on board has enabled iFi Audio to overcome the current USB limitation of DSD512 as well as implement multiple filters optimised for specific time-domain behaviour, including that of the DAC and Analogue stage, a level of optimisation not possible in generic software upconversion (as found in Foobar et al).

The five filters available are:

Stay tuned, there's more!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 4 Jan 2018, 06:44 pm
Preview – Pro series - part 4/5
Jaw-dropping features - the story goes on...

Full Galvanic Isolation

All inputs are galvanically-isolated (including USB). As found in the AMR DP-777.

The USB Input is self-powered and does not draw power from the USB bus, making it impervious to after-market add-ons or tuning accessories.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173810)

Cutting-Edge SPDIF technology

The SPDIF etc. inputs use the technology derived from the AMR DP-777, including a new, solid-state implementation of HD-VDi, memory buffer and the Global Master Timing® clock system:

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_spdif.html
http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_jitter.html

The SPDIF etc. inputs are not expected to benefit much from any kind of tweaking or tuning gizmos.

External Clock options and Synchronisation

For synchronization in recording studios the iDSD Pro supports AES3id based DARS (Digital Audio Reference Signal) as recommended in the Audio Egineering Society’s published AES11 standard. And if you happen to have a really good atomic clock (at least a Sanford Research Systems PERF10 should be used) this can be used as to further elevate the iDSD Pro over the internal clock system.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173811)

Yes, this is hugely over-specified but the iFi flagship deserves it.

Passive Filtering and Discrete Analogue stage

The DACs operate ‘Voltage Output Mode,’ giving >119dB dynamic range. All filtering is passive, using a fully-balanced third order capacitor/inductor/capacitor filter, rather than active, feedback-based circuits, to remove ultrasonic noise. (Active filters struggle with the amount of ultrasonic noise and RFI they have to handle and at a few 100kHz they can lose the ability to filter noise at all, which is precisely where a lot of noise is present.)

Using passive CLC filtering directly after the DAC means that the following analogue stage is not required to handle ultrasonic noise and RFI originating from the DAC process. Directly after the DAC and filter is the analogue domain volume control, which uses a six-track Alps Japan potentiometer. This can be bypassed for the line outs.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173812)

The analogue stage is more precisely a line/headphone driver stage. Using Class A circuitry, it is fully-balanced, fully-discrete, direct-coupled (coupling capacitor less) and Tube/Solid-State user-selectable.

Stay tuned, there's more!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 4 Jan 2018, 06:48 pm
Folks, we were able to catch our Skin the skunk lady for a short iDSD Pro related Q&A session.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173814)

Who knows? Maybe in the future she'll be able to give us even more insight about the product itself? In the meantime, here goes...


Skin: No, in the iDSD pro we operate very differently. We use a suitable isolation barrier between the digital (noisy) section with XMOS, WiFi/networking, the Chrysopeia FPGA and the DAC's / Reclocking / Clock. In essence, all noisy digital processing is confined to a blocked of "island" on it's own board and isolated from all audio circuitry.

This parallels the way in which i.e. the JVC K2 system is implemented for playback and the isolation of the DAC from digital noise found in the legendary Marantz CD/DA-12 system featuring the TDA1541. All this is essentially trickle-down from the DP-777.

The iGalvanic isolates the USB connection instead, so it is a less complete solution which can't isolate noise inside the DAC itself.


Skin: We use the same proprietary GMT clock system as originally developed for the AMR DP-777. Please see here to know more:

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_individual.html


Skin: No, what would be the point? This device was designed as a d/a converter above all else.


Skin: It is not an output, it is a connection to your local area network (LAN). For reliable streaming, especially for high resolution audio wireless networking can be frustrating with dropouts and glitches.

If streaming hi-res content from a NAS or a server on your home network, a hard-line network connection is preferred over WiFi.


Skin: No, baking a crystal merely reduces long term thermal drift (over periods of minutes to hours) which is inconsequential to audio playback. We employ a high quality miniaturized 10MHz discrete crystal (not canned oscillator) as timebase for our GMT clock system.

The GMT clock system allows the clock frequency to be set with appx. 0.01ppm (parts per million) or better than 0.5Hz accuracy compared to the nominal 45/49MHz audio clock frequencies


Skin: Yup, anytime, but not too often as I have things to do!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: dburna on 4 Jan 2018, 07:00 pm
Way cool, and lots of great information, but do you have:

1. Availability ETA?
2. Est. Price?
3. Additional pictures (especially the back)?

Thanks,  -dB
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 5 Jan 2018, 04:47 am
Quote from: dburna on  4 Jan 2018, 07:00 pm
Way cool, and lots of great information, but do you have:

1. Availability ETA?
2. Est. Price?
3. Additional pictures (especially the back)?

Thanks,  -dB


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173872)

Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: mresseguie on 5 Jan 2018, 05:07 pm
Okay. I'll take the bait.

Will one be ready in early February? I'd like one to take to an upcoming get together near Seattle. There will be a half-dozen audiophiles who would love to be impressed.

Contact me.

Regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 5 Jan 2018, 06:08 pm
Quote from: mresseguie on  5 Jan 2018, 05:07 pm
Okay. I'll take the bait.

Will one be ready in early February? I'd like one to take to an upcoming get together near Seattle. There will be a half-dozen audiophiles who would love to be impressed.

Contact me.

Regards,

Michael

Hi Michael,

Unfortunately, not one of the Pro iDSD will have arrived in the States by early February.  Sorry man!

I am interested in your gathering though.  What kind of fun stuff will be in attendance?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: mresseguie on 6 Jan 2018, 01:00 am
Bummer. I suspect we could hold another G2G in May with the right incentives.  :wink:

The following goodies ought to be present for February's G2G:

One custom built KICK ASS to-die-for dedicated listening room
GR Research OB speakers (forgot the model) with dual 12" bass units
Daedalus Apollo speakers (possibly)
Don Sachs Model 1 6SN7 preamp
Don Sachs KT88 Kootenay 120
Mivera 1200as Iceedge amp
MP-D2 DAC upgraded with Mundorf caps (possibly)
DB Audio Labs Tranquility SE DAC with Jupiter Cu caps
Lampizator Atlantic DAC
Yummy food and choice alcohol

There may be other goodies depending on who attends and on what they decide to bring.

It ought to be a lot of fun. This will be our third G2G.

Michael
 
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 8 Jan 2018, 05:26 am
Preview – Pro series - part 5/5
Jaw-dropping features - the story ends

Power Supplies

Using classic tube design, brought up-to-date with 21st Century technology, all incoming DC is converted to a high-frequency waveform then rectified and filtered by a choke input capacitor filter. This produces a first-level DC bus from which all further voltages are derived. The circuit also generates a galvanically-isolated power supply voltage for the USB input circuitry.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174103)

The digital section is powered by a bank of Super Capacitors totaling 6.6 Farad (6,600,000uF). iFi uses Elna Dynacap DZ (TM) Super capacitors because they have a 400 times lower internal impedance than common grades of super capacitors.

Individual low-noise TI LDO Regulators with local LC filtering provide the final low-noise power for all individual digital sections, a total of six individual regulators cover Clock, SPDIF Input and the DAC's digital section.

For the analogue stage (especially the tubes) higher voltages are needed. The whole stage effectively operates on a 60V rail offering massive potential dynamic range.

The USB input section has its own separate power management system with multiple regulators and filtering operating from the galvanically-isolated voltage generated to power this section.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174104)

For the analogue stage, higher voltages (especially for the tubes) are needed. The whole analogue stage in effect, operates on 60V rail, giving massive potential dynamic range. These are generated from the main DC Bus and filtered using multiple stages of inductor/capacitor filters, with Elna Silmic Capacitors forming the final stage.

Every section in the iDSD Pro has received massive attention to detail and combines classic design techniques for tube equipment with state-of-the-art technology to deliver extreme performance.

iDSD Pro Features

Sample Rates:

Studio DSD Remastering:

Crysopeia FPGA Digital Engine:

Inputs:

Outputs:

Volume Control:
Other Functions:
PCM Filters:
DSD Filters:
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: pfarthing on 19 Jan 2018, 10:04 am
Very impressive. Can this function as a DAC/pre-amp straight into a power amp? Also, to be clear, if I'm using say a standard laptop as a source, does this mean things like iDefender, iUSB3, iPower, iGalvanic, Mercury and Gemini cables would all be unnecessary?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 22 Jan 2018, 07:03 pm
The story about digital filters ...
... as we see it

Alright, let's be frank about one thing...

ALL FILTERS ARE WRONG. ALL OF THEM, INLUDING THE 'NO FILTER' OPTION.

The reason is that such rules like Nyquists's law sampling theorem are true, but are limited by strictures that make them not directly applicable to highly variant signals (e.g. music) which may contain content that can't be resolved into finite numbers of sine-wave wavelets.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174977)

Digital filters are based on steady state mathematics and thus distort the music signal, primarily in the time domain. This is an unavoidable byproduct of their function. Operating without filter distorts the music in a different way.

Many publications offer good reasons why a specific form of digital filter is superior. Usually the reasons are based on theory and in how close a given filter implementation comes to such a theoretical ideal.

What is commonly omitted and ignored are listening tests of radically different filters with different types of signals.

All digital filters (including non) differ in how they are wrong and how this influences objective measured performance as well as subjective listening performance with music and indeed specific music.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174983)

Music with a highly percussive nature and many instruments containing non-harmonic sounds (i.e. Jazz or Pop) will react different with a digital filter than music which is based mainly on pure tones and harmonics (i.e. a string ensemble plus a soprano singing).

These distortions become all the more relevant and carry greater possible audible consequences, the lower the sample rate. So the most abundant digital music source - CD quality - is most impacted.

Wherever there is a difference, there is also a preference. Subjective listening preference may be informed by a learned or acquired response to recorded sound (e.g. what sounds "right" or "hifi" is not what sounds natural in comparison to a live performance), in addition to direct referencing acoustic music performances.

So, no matter what single fixed filter is present, it is wrong and may not be preferred by a customer at least not with all music. What AMR implemented in the DP-777 (...and now iFi audio in the Pro iDSD) is to give a user a choice between the CORE possible approaches to digital filtering that we have found to produce meaningful differences and preferences in listening.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174979)

We offer the option to bypass digital filtering completely, to select minimum phase filters of differing structure (minimum ringing or apodising) or to select a "transient aligned" FIR filter that offer a maximally long filter response and number of taps to come closes to the idealised textbook filter.

Hence we do not prescribe ONE singular 'perfect' approach, we offer the choice between different approaches that have all been declared by their respective proponents to be 'perfect' and leave the choice which kind of 'perfection' is preferred to the customer.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174984)

Note, not everyone is sensitized to the differences digital filters make. Whatever your preference, simply choose what you like based on either what you believe to be right or on what sounds best to you. We do recommend to experiment with filters at least occasionally, especially once listening to different styles of music than usual.

Stay tuned, coming up is Pro iDSD's digital filtering!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 22 Jan 2018, 07:07 pm
The iDSD PRO offers the following choices of digital processing:

I. Direct - Bitperfect
Both PCM and DSD signals are not processed in any way.
For PCM this is effectively what is sometimes called "non-oversampling" or "zero-oversampling", for DSD it means DSD is retained in the original DSD format and directly converted to analogue without any digital processing.

II. PCM - upsampling
In this case PCM is up-converted to 16 X PCM (705.6/768kHz) using a choice of digital filters (Minimum Phase, Apodising, Transient Aligned) that offer different tradeoffs of time-domain and frequency-domain performance.
DSD remains completely unprocessed.

III. DSD - Remastering
In this case all incoming audio (except DSD512) is converted to either DSD512 or DSD1024 as selected, using the filter selected (including Bitperfect, meaning no digital filtering is applied).
All the above mentioned digital processing options apply to all sources, including the network audio bridge and AES/EBU & S/PDIF inputs.
Inputs other than USB are currently limited to maximum sample rates of 192kHz PCM and DSD(64) via DoP.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174985)(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174986)(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174987)

In the nutshell, when:
DSD512 Remaster is selected, then all audio (except DSD512) is upconverted to DSD512.
DSD1024 Remaster is selected, then all audio (yes, DSD512 as well) is upconverted to DSD1024.
The upconversion process allows different digital filters, including Bitperfect (no filter), to be selected.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174988)

For example, this image shows the screen in DSD Remaster DSD1024 mode with a 44kHz input signal being upconverted to DSD1024 (45.158MHz) using the Bitperfect filter.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: Tyson on 24 Jan 2018, 09:51 pm
Well I'm ordering one.  I'm super excited for a few different reasons:

1. Clutter cleanup!! Right now I have 3 different DACS in my system.  One DAC for my hirez music on my PC server, one DAC for my 4k Blu Ray player to plug into for movies, and one DAC for my Roku device (it also does wireless streaming for blue tooth).  Each DAC also has power filters in front of it and signal clean up devices in front of it, etc, etc, etc.  It's a mess!!!  The iDSD Pro will let me clean up ALL of that and have one device to handle everything, that's awesome!

2. Tubes!!! It's not touted enough here, but to me having a tube based output is HUGE!  IMO the more tubes in a system, the better.  I can't wait to hear what it sounds like. 

3. DSD - I have tons and tons of DSD recordings, the fact that this handles ALL of them natively is phenomenal.  I'm a big fan of DSD.  IMO the best DSD matches and even surpasses the best Vinyl.  That's NOT true of PCM.  The best PCM is "almost" as good as the best Vinyl, but still falls just short, IME.  Still I'm also excited to hear what the iDSD Pro can do with PCM - maybe there is in fact a way to dial it in to get those last couple percentage points worth of difference/

4. Fully differential!!!!!! This is huge for me because I have crazy sensitive speakers (97db) and ANY noise in my system becomes painfully obvious.  The iDSD Pro should get me that one thing I crave above all else - silence :thumb:

OK there's other things I'm excited about too, but that's enough for now.  Can't wait for it to get here.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: dburna on 24 Jan 2018, 10:16 pm
So, is there going to be an iDSD tour?  If so, count me in!!   :thumb:

Best,  -dGB
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: debjit.g on 24 Jan 2018, 10:23 pm
when is this available in the US ?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 28 Jan 2018, 04:57 pm
Quote from: pfarthing on 19 Jan 2018, 10:04 am
Very impressive. Can this function as a DAC/pre-amp straight into a power amp? Also, to be clear, if I'm using say a standard laptop as a source, does this mean things like iDefender, iUSB3, iPower, iGalvanic, Mercury and Gemini cables would all be unnecessary?

The Pro iDSD is a functioning pre-amp.  However, the Pro iCan would be more suitable in the role if one was already in the chain.

The Pro iDSD does not require the iDefender, the iUSB3.0 or iGalvanic.  The concepts found within these devices have been incorporated into the Pro iDSD.  However, the implementation of the concepts took on a radically different approach with deeper integration into its design opposed to simply applying the technologies on the inputs.

I don't have a good answer regarding the USB cable portion of your question.  I have yet to get a Pro iDSD myself to try different USB cables.  Also, USB cables always surprise me depending on the system they are used in.  I have heard USB cables be winners in some systems and not stunners in others.  Sorry man to drop a dud on you with this one.

Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 28 Jan 2018, 04:59 pm
Quote from: dburna on 24 Jan 2018, 10:16 pm
So, is there going to be an iDSD tour?  If so, count me in!!   :thumb:

Best,  -dGB

No tour but I believe I will have a couple to loan out.  May I put you on a list of folks to contact once the units arrive?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 28 Jan 2018, 04:59 pm
Quote from: debjit.g on 24 Jan 2018, 10:23 pm
when is this available in the US ?

Within the next 30 days  :thumb:
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 28 Jan 2018, 05:24 pm
Pro iDSD - The easygoing perspective
The enclosure and front panel – part 1/2

Introduction

Our latest and greatest DAC – the Pro iDSD – is just around the corner. We’ve already tackled several technical matters related to this device, and all these are to be found via links in the first post of this thread:

· https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-the-official-thread.869144/

In short, we’ve explained in our regular fashion why this product is very unique. Since there’s still some time left to the official launch of our upcoming flagship DAC’s, we thought we’d describe in a less techy and more easygoing, newbie-friendly way what our Pro iDSD is all about. First stop is its enclosure’s front, back and - later on - also innards.

The Pro iDSD – what is it exactly?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175286)

This machine, in short, is a DAC, also known as a d/a converter and quite commonly as a source. This means that its main purpose is to receive a digital signal either via cable or wirelessly, convert it to its analogue form and then pass it on to devices such as a preamplifier, a stereo power amplifier, a pair of mono amplifiers, a headphone amplifier or directly to various headphones. Yes, all these devices operate in the analogue domain, which leads us on to this statement:

· The Pro iDSD won’t pass digital signals to a different DAC and yes, this is on purpose.

The Pro iDSD was primarily built as a high quality digital to analog converter and this is how it should be used. It’s already function packed as it is and - instead of making it operable as an S/PDIF converter - our goal was to use the space normally reserved for this in a more useful way. Basically, using the Pro iDSD to feed a similar device with a digital signal is a big waste of its potential.

The enclosure
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175287)

Now, we have all that out of the way, let’s focus on the Pro iDSD’s enclosure. This machine is the same size as the iFi audio Pro iCAN and both products look very similar. The enclosure is made out of aircraft grade aluminium and its main purpose is to dissipate heat from the devices inside as they will get hot when powered on. In order to further improve on this, the chassis has many venting holes on its sides and on top. These align in a pleasantly rounded shape with a magnifying glass with a pair of fabulous vintage JAN GE5670 valves underneath. (Quick note – these class act valves are now reserved ONLY for our Pro series products but that’s another story). Anyway, we reckon that the Pro series chassis looks very cool.

The front panel – LED diode and standby/power switch

Let’s start with the upper left corner. There’s the iFi Pro logo based on a LED diode. Once the Pro iDSD is powered on, this lights up with one of four different colours. Each indicates a different operational status:

· Green: warming up
· White: solid-state mode
· Orange: tube mode
· Red: protection mode

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175288)

Moving on, there’s a small, flat button in the lower left corner. This turns the product on or puts it in standby mode if you are not shutting it down completely.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175289)

The front panel – input selector

Let’s now go a bit to the right. A large and endlessly rotating aluminium knob is next in line. It handles several jobs with its main one being digital input selection. You can cycle through the following options:

· Ethernet/WiFi/Hard Disk/Micro SDHC (Network Bridge/Streamer)
· Host USB
· Coaxial/Optical Digital Input
· XLR Digital Input
· BNC Digital Input

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175290)

There are also two additional adjustment options available via the input selector:

· Brightness (adjustable via a three second press)
· Polarity (adjustable via a long press)

The front panel – digital filter selector

The smaller knob located a bit to the right from the input selector is the digital filter selector. It enable two things.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175291)

The first feature (available via pressing the digital filter selector) is our proprietary DSD remastering. You can choose whether you’d like to have your music:

· Normal – where DSD signals are passed directly to the DAC. For PCM you may choose between a set of digital filters or bit-perfect, unprocessed PCM
· Upconverted to DSD512
· Upconverted to DSD1024

The second feature allows you to cycle through these five different filters on the fly via the rotary action:

1. 'Bit-Perfect' - No digital filtering is applied, one tap
2. 'Bit-Perfect+' - No digital filtering is applied, one tap, SINC roll-off @ HF is corrected
3. 'Minimum Phase' - Minimum filtering, no pre-ringing, minimum post ringing, 32 taps
4. 'Apodising' - Modest filtering, no pre-ringing, modest post ringing, 128 taps
5. 'Transient Aligned' - Max filtering, max pre-ringing, maximum post-ringing, 16,384 taps

Please think of these filters as different flavours. Each trades off frequency response flatness, transient response and suppression of ultrasonic images in a different way. There is no “perfect” filter option, such a thing is not possible, so select the filter that offer the right set of compromises for you.

We’ve already covered in detail how our proprietary digital filtering works in the Pro iDSD. Please take a look here:

· https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread.702376/page-127

What’s important is that the Pro iDSD is equipped with a FPGA chip that runss on iFi audio’s custom firmware and is responsible for all filters and remasters listed above. It’s worth noting that in this DAC, these operations are hardware based.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: mtraesbo on 1 Feb 2018, 09:38 pm
Sounds really interesting with this new DAC.

A question around streamer. I am only streaming from Tidal and TuneIn. Will I need a streamer to provide the signal to the Pro iDSD? Current I have a low cost streamer from Raumfeld connected to my V-Dac from MF, and I am planning to replace the latter with the Pro iDSD.

My amplifier is an Dual Mono Amplifier from Musical Fidelity as well.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 3 Feb 2018, 05:24 pm
Quote from: mtraesbo on  1 Feb 2018, 09:38 pm
Sounds really interesting with this new DAC.

A question around streamer. I am only streaming from Tidal and TuneIn. Will I need a streamer to provide the signal to the Pro iDSD? Current I have a low cost streamer from Raumfeld connected to my V-Dac from MF, and I am planning to replace the latter with the Pro iDSD.

My amplifier is an Dual Mono Amplifier from Musical Fidelity as well.

From the manual:
"For a wired connection directly from a router or Network Attached Storage (NAS) source. Using the MUZO Player app stream Spotify (incl. Connect), TIDAL, Napster, QQ Music, Qobuz and many more."
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 6 Feb 2018, 04:48 pm
Some fun is ah-brewing over here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155504  :beer:
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 8 Feb 2018, 01:37 am
Pro iDSD
Global Launch Update

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175769)

News from the Skunkworks!

As you will know from recent iFi audio communications, we are about to launch the Pro iDSD. You may also know that the entire concept of this revolutionary new DAC was driven by you – the customer. Recent feedback has led us to make a small but significant alteration to the design of the Pro iDSD’s front panel.

We have replaced the 3.5mm balanced headphone socket with a 2.5mm balanced socket for users with flagship IEMs. There is still, of course, a 3.5mm single-ended socket for music lovers with any other headphone/IEM.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175770)

Unfortunately, this means a delay to the scheduled launch date of 15 February.

We are the first to admit it has taken long enough for the Pro iDSD to come to market but we have taken everything on board in its creation – from the need for a standalone flagship DAC to match the technological wizardry of the Pro iCAN to the desire to touch the dizzying audio heights of DSD1024. That’s why we are incorporating this last nugget of customer feedback. In short it’s a case of ‘in for a penny, in for a pound’.

To give the iFi Skunkworks time to implement this change, the updated global launch will be on 15 March 2018 and the Pro iDSD will feature at the Lisbon Audio Show, Portugal (16-18 March). However, we are pleased to announce that visitors to CanJam New York, USA (17-18 Feb) and Bristol Sound and Vision, UK (23-25 Feb) will still be able to see and demo the Pro iDSD on the iFi stand.

Again, thank you for your feedback and your patience.

We look forward to seeing you there!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: jim dukey on 11 Feb 2018, 01:55 am
Hi, Will it be compatible with HQ Player, maybe in Direct SDM Mode?
I'm most interested in the DSD Upsampling.
I'm on a Mac Computer.
Or, what Player would you recommend?
I just play Files, no streaming yet.
Been following this thread, I joined AC just to post this question!
Looks like a terrific new product.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: RandyH on 11 Feb 2018, 04:22 pm
digital streaming newbie here.  I have a Bluesound Node 2 that streams Tidal and files from a NAS.  I've been happy with it but am moving it to a new addition to our house so I am looking for something to replace it in my main system.  I like the idea of a one box streamer/DAC but am not at all opposed to separating the DAC and streamer.  First question:  Is the Ifi DSD Pro a component that could be the one box solution or would I still need to get a separate streamer?  If it can be a one-box solution, how is it controlled?  iPad app? What software?  Just for reference, other products I have been considering are the Auralic Altair, Lumin D2 or T1.  How does the Ifi product fit in with these other products regarding ease of use, simplicity, sound quality...? 

Thanks
Randy
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 12 Feb 2018, 12:00 am
Quote from: jim dukey on 11 Feb 2018, 01:55 am
Hi, Will it be compatible with HQ Player, maybe in Direct SDM Mode?
I'm most interested in the DSD Upsampling.
I'm on a Mac Computer.
Or, what Player would you recommend?
I just play Files, no streaming yet.
Been following this thread, I joined AC just to post this question!
Looks like a terrific new product.

The Pro iDSD is compatible with HQ Player.  If the choice is to convert to DSD with HQ Player, the iDSD has multiple way of handling that format.  One could also choose to upsample with the iDSD.

I have a hard time recommending a player because there is not one solution that stands above the rest.  For example, I have friends that use Bug head for playback because to their ears it sounds the best.  Other friends of mine won't deal with its interface so they lean towards JRiver or even HQ Player.  For a MAC, some love Amarra and others prefer Audirvana. 

I'd start with a free trial of Amarra then take it from there. 
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 12 Feb 2018, 12:10 am
Quote from: RandyH on 11 Feb 2018, 04:22 pm
digital streaming newbie here.  I have a Bluesound Node 2 that streams Tidal and files from a NAS.  I've been happy with it but am moving it to a new addition to our house so I am looking for something to replace it in my main system.  I like the idea of a one box streamer/DAC but am not at all opposed to separating the DAC and streamer.  First question:  Is the Ifi DSD Pro a component that could be the one box solution or would I still need to get a separate streamer?  If it can be a one-box solution, how is it controlled?  iPad app? What software?  Just for reference, other products I have been considering are the Auralic Altair, Lumin D2 or T1.  How does the Ifi product fit in with these other products regarding ease of use, simplicity, sound quality...? 

Thanks
Randy

The Pro iDSD could be a one box solution.  We recommend a wired connection directly from a router for streaming music.  Using the MUZO Player app stream Spotify (incl. Connect), TIDAL, Napster, QQ Music, Qobuz and more.

I have never used anything form Auralic or Lumin to know how simple they are to use. However, I am familiar with the companies enough to know they have a well-deserved following.  I can only hope the Pro iDSD works as seamlessly those competing products.  I will let this forum know how wonderful I think the device is when I get my hands on one.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: jtwrace on 12 Feb 2018, 03:23 pm
How often will firmware (FPGA) updates come out and what's the actual cost of this unit?  Any chance of making it Roon Ready down the road as an all in one box?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 12 Feb 2018, 04:46 pm
Quote from: jtwrace on 12 Feb 2018, 03:23 pm
How often will firmware (FPGA) updates come out and what's the actual cost of this unit?  Any chance of making it Roon Ready down the road as an all in one box?

I don't have answer about the firmware updates at this moment.  I will ask the question to the development team to see what they have to say.

No chance of making the Pro iDSD Roon Ready.  There was simply no additional space inside the chassis for a Roon endpoint even one as small as a Raspberry Pi. 



Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: jim dukey on 12 Feb 2018, 05:49 pm
Thanks for your response!
It seems that if the IFI Pro is converts to DSD 512 or 1024 in the  Hardware,
it won't be done in HQ Player.
I'm unclear on what HQ Setting to use.
Certainly I don't want HQ converting, then the IFI also converting.
I just want to sure before buying.
Will a 30 day return policy be available?

The IFI Proi DSD Dac seems like the Very Product for me.
The Mytek Brooklyn+ Dac has a Phono Section I'd never use,  and doesn't upsample as far as the IFI.

DSD512 and 1024 are available on Mac, because the Dac does the upsampling, right?
DSD 256 is all that's available on Mac with Software Conversion, or so I've read.

Looking for ward to the release of the new IFI!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: jim dukey on 12 Feb 2018, 06:09 pm
OK, your earlier post has gradually sunk in!
HQ can do the conversion or IFI can.
Something to experiment with.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 12 Feb 2018, 08:04 pm
Quote from: jim dukey on 12 Feb 2018, 06:09 pm
OK, your earlier post has gradually sunk in!
HQ can do the conversion or IFI can.
Something to experiment with.

You got it!  One staple of iFi audio is FEATURES!  They get packed into a lot of our products to allow the user to find the sound most appealing to them.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: jim dukey on 13 Feb 2018, 01:46 am
Is DSD 512 or 1024 achievable then on a Mac, using the IFI Internal Hardware to up-convert?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 13 Feb 2018, 08:28 pm
Quote from: jim dukey on 13 Feb 2018, 01:46 am
Is DSD 512 or 1024 achievable then on a Mac, using the IFI Internal Hardware to up-convert?

Yep.  The Pro iDSD can up-convert the incoming signal internally to DSD1024.  It doesn't matter if it's plugged into a Mac, a Windows machine or a Linux machine.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: gerb0075 on 3 Mar 2018, 05:36 pm
What’s the distinction between the ‘Host’ versus ‘Device’ USB inputs?

Thanks,
Edward
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 5 Mar 2018, 06:05 am
Quote from: gerb0075 on  3 Mar 2018, 05:36 pm
What’s the distinction between the ‘Host’ versus ‘Device’ USB inputs?

Thanks,
Edward

Can you please tell me where you read 'Device' USB?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: debjit.g on 5 Mar 2018, 06:18 am
I lost track of the new release date but was that supposed to be sometime in March ? Will it then be available from US dealers, like Music Direct ?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: gerb0075 on 5 Mar 2018, 11:58 pm
Quote from: iFi Tyler on  5 Mar 2018, 06:05 am
Can you please tell me where you read 'Device' USB?

Look at the 2 USB inputs on the back panel.  The USB Type A female jack is labelled "Host", while the USB Type B female jack is labelled "Device":


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177154)

Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: slash71 on 6 Mar 2018, 07:51 am
Device port is the Dac.
In computer terminology host port is the controller and device is ‘pheripheral’.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: JohnR on 6 Mar 2018, 09:09 am
Presumably the host port is for

Quote from: iFi Tyler on  8 Jan 2018, 05:26 am
  • USB-Memory/Harddrive – Linkplay
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 8 Mar 2018, 06:13 pm
Owen is all his glory  :D

The Pro iDSD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=7bsMhFPhGHk&app=desktop
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 9 Mar 2018, 10:02 pm
iFi audio has recently returned from a couple of outstanding audio shows – CanJam in New York City and Bristol Sound and Vision in the UK.

As promised, audiences had the chance to audition the pre-production model of the new Pro iDSD. This gave us the invaluable opportunity to gather feedback from the end user, directly.

We couldn’t miss out on the final chance to let our potential customers drive the Pro concept forward just one more time.

So, as is our want, we have taken the feedback on board and are tweaking the hardware and the software in response to these comments.

It seems that certain markets required the additional 2.5mm headphone socket and some the 4.4mm – so we’re doing both. Watch this space for more info on how and why!

Inevitably this will have an impact on the official launch date of both the Pro iDSD and the Pro iRack which we intend to launch together.

Skin says he needs until the end of May to implement these tweaks and will be able to give us a definite launch date nearer the time.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: gerb0075 on 10 Mar 2018, 01:25 am
Can you guys at least make the Pro iDSD user manual available on the iFi website?!!  I, for one, would appreciate the opportunity to go throuh the manual prior to the actual release of the product.  Thanks for your consideration.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 11 Mar 2018, 03:15 am
Quote from: gerb0075 on 10 Mar 2018, 01:25 am
Can you guys at least make the Pro iDSD user manual available on the iFi website?!!  I, for one, would appreciate the opportunity to go throuh the manual prior to the actual release of the product.  Thanks for your consideration.

I like that idea.  I have one.  I will ask if I may distribute it if the website is not updated.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: gerb0075 on 12 Mar 2018, 02:15 am
Quote from: iFi Tyler on 11 Mar 2018, 03:15 am
I like that idea.  I have one.  I will ask if I may distribute it if the website is not updated.

Sounds great!  Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: gerb0075 on 12 Mar 2018, 02:35 am
Quote from: iFi Tyler on  9 Mar 2018, 10:02 pm
iFi audio has recently returned from a couple of outstanding audio shows – CanJam in New York City and Bristol Sound and Vision in the UK.

As promised, audiences had the chance to audition the pre-production model of the new Pro iDSD. This gave us the invaluable opportunity to gather feedback from the end user, directly.

We couldn’t miss out on the final chance to let our potential customers drive the Pro concept forward just one more time.

So, as is our want, we have taken the feedback on board and are tweaking the hardware and the software in response to these comments.

It seems that certain markets required the additional 2.5mm headphone socket and some the 4.4mm – so we’re doing both. Watch this space for more info on how and why!

Inevitably this will have an impact on the official launch date of both the Pro iDSD and the Pro iRack which we intend to launch together.

Skin says he needs until the end of May to implement these tweaks and will be able to give us a definite launch date nearer the time.

Will purchasers have the option to purchase either version, depending on their individual needs/preferences?  Or, will you limit distribution to only one version per market? 

Finally, speaking for the entire iFI enthusiast community, can you PLEASE release the version with the 2.5mm socket on 3/15/18 as most recently promised?!!  You must have a supply of these units ready as their release was FINALLY supposed to take place this week. :)
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 12 Mar 2018, 04:28 pm
Quote from: gerb0075 on 12 Mar 2018, 02:35 am
Will purchasers have the option to purchase either version, depending on their individual needs/preferences?  Or, will you limit distribution to only one version per market? 

Finally, speaking for the entire iFI enthusiast community, can you PLEASE release the version with the 2.5mm socket on 3/15/18 as most recently promised?!!  You must have a supply of these units ready as their release was FINALLY supposed to take place this week. :)

I am not positive if folks in the U.S. will have access to the 4.4mm version yet.  I have asked the question.

Speaking for me too  :duh:  Due to the 4.4mm version being put into the mix the team has decided to continue work on the firmware to make it bulletproof.  A lot more testing protocols have been added to ensure the release is smooooooth.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 31 May 2018, 06:02 am
iFi Audio Pro iDSD
The official Launch release

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180728)

Having sparked a revolution with its low-cost DACs that offered music fans portable 256 stereo for less than £500 a few years ago, iFi has maintained its position at the vanguard of the audio world with the launch of the ground-breaking Pro iDSD. There is simply nothing like it.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180729)

We have paid great attention to every section of this DAC/headphone-amp/preamp – no stone has been left unturned. Tried and tested classic noise reduction techniques found in tube equipment have been combined with cutting-edge, 21st century technology to deliver a superlative performance.

The quad section uses a quad “stack” of Bit-Perfect DSD and DXD DACs by Burr-Brown in a custom “interleaved” configuration. This arrangement enables a total of eight pairs of differential signals to be used and mixed totalling four pairs of signals per channel.

In a nutshell

The iFi Pro iDSD is a revolutionary DAC that combines a number of different features to give your home audio system the best possible playback resolution and sound. It can handle all audio formats to DSD1024 or DSD512 or PCM 768K with user-selectable digital filters.

Wireless Playback

With LINKPLAY™ WiFi/network playback, built-in Spotify and Tidal, and wide protocol support for 32-Bit/192kHz and DSD64, the Pro iDSD can directly link to a router for online music play. This gives it the option to:

• Play direct from SD card
• Link to a router and directly stream (TIDAL/MQA, Spotify etc)
• Use DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance) via music stored on HDD

It’s taken a while to come to market but, boy, has it been worth it. This innovative digital engine will shape the next generation of iFi products and they will rock the digital world.

The gang of four

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180730)

A quad “stack” of Bit-Perfect DSD and DXD DACs by Burr-Brown work in a custom “interleaved” configuration so that up to eight pairs of differential signals can be used and mixed.

Digital Processing

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180731)

The new XMOS XU216 X-Core 200 Series 16-Core processor has a maximum of 2,000 MIPS (two billion instructions per second) calculation power in dual-issue mode as a USB interface.

Crysopeia FPGA Digital Engine

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180732)

The FPGA excels, by handling the up-sampling duties to attain the DSD1024 audio format. In fact, the Pro iDSD can handle all audio formats to DSD1024 or DSD512 or PCM 768K with user-selectable digital filters.

Wireless playback

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180733)

With LINKPLAY™ WiFi/network playback, built-in Spotify and Tidal, and wide protocol support for 32-Bit/192kHz and DSD64, the Pro iDSD can directly link to a router for online music play.

Many format options

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180734)

It can handle all audio formats to DSD1024 or DSD512 or PCM 768K with user-selectable digital filters and also gives the user the option to listen to tracks via MQA.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180735)


Sample Rates:

Inputs:

Outputs:

Volume Control:

Other Functions:

PCM Filters:

44.1 - 192KHz, always used for 352.8 - 768kHz

44.1 - 96kHz

44.1 - 192KHz

44.1 - 192KHz

DSD Filters:

The retail price of the Pro iDSD is:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180736)

And lastly, Wojciech Pacuła of Polish HighFidelity.pl reviewed Pro iDSD and awarded it his Red Fingerprint. English version of this publication is to be found here:
http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-828&lang=en
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: mresseguie on 31 May 2018, 06:43 am
Finally!  :D I have been waiting for this announcement (more or less patiently) since the first teaser.

I'd like to audition one.

Regards,

Michael

PM sent.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: OzarkTom on 5 Jun 2018, 06:19 pm
Audition? Sign me up please! :thumb:
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: richbroth on 7 Jun 2018, 03:57 am
Do we just contact our local stockist for the 4.4mm version?
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 7 Jun 2018, 03:27 pm
Quote from: richbroth on  7 Jun 2018, 03:57 am
Do we just contact our local stockist for the 4.4mm version?

Yes, please ask them.  If you don't give you the answer you want then reach out to me.  I will help ya!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: A_shah on 7 Jun 2018, 06:21 pm
Quote from: iFi Tyler on 28 Jan 2018, 04:59 pm
No tour but I believe I will have a couple to loan out.  May I put you on a list of folks to contact once the units arrive?


Count me in on the Loan out , when available.
Present system PS Audio DirectStream DAC.,Don Sach's DS-2 preamp,QuickSilver Mono amps , Cardis Clear Channel cables, Daedalus Poseidon (MTTM) speakers
2nd System( ) KEf LS 50 with Schiit Gungnir and Loaner QS audio Integrated tube amp.
3. Desk top system Kef LS 50W
4. Mojo , DAC/HP , Audeze LX Headphone with Audeze Class A HP Deckard 4 watts of Class A power
5. Odyssey Kismet amplifier , Parasound Halo Integrated
Member San Francisco  audiophile Society

Asghar
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: TF1216 on 20 Jun 2018, 05:13 am
One customer wrote "I had major issues when I had an iDSD BL a while ago, with volume control driving my MrSpeakers AEON Closed. I couldn't use past 9 o'clock on the volume knob using 'Normal'. And the high and ultra IEMatch settings restricted dynamics way too much and I wasn't able to enjoy these settings."

We offered the following as a reply:

'Normal' is equal to 12dB gain. So it is more gain to the HP than iDSD Pro in the middle (9dB) position. 'Normal' on the iDSD micro in effect matched the original iCAN micro in the lower gain setting.

In 'Eco' mode headphone gain is 0dB so this should be used if there is not enough adjustment range for the volume control. This is also stated in the manual.

For iDSD Pro, we selected slightly lower gain levels, as the balanced output is 6dB 'hotter', so going for 0/9/18dB kind of breaks the difference in half, for balanced the effective gains are 6/15/24dB.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: bodhifile on 25 Jul 2018, 05:22 am
Hello, looks amazing! Are the drivers stable with the current macOS? Also, has this been tested in a professional audio situation with DAWs? I am wondering if this would be a stable option as a mastering DAC in conjunction with other interfaces. I see it can receive clock etc. Thanks!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 28 Aug 2018, 11:17 pm
iFi audio - The GTO filter
Part 1/4 - The TL;DR

What iFi GTOTM is?

Based on AMR’s ‘Organic’ mode, the further refined iFi GTOTM Digital Filter resolves a number of audible problems associated with both classic digital filters AND non-oversampling systems, sounds on par (or better in optimal systems) to the latter and its transient optimised performance is similar.

How iFi GTOTM does it?

Our GTOTM filter tuned to fit inside the ‘ringing envelope’ of our own hearing makes ultrasonic ringing objectively measurable yet not perceived. It essentially ‘masks’ this time-domain distortion to make it inaudible.

Why do I want iFi GTOTM?

Because it provides natural sound free from audible time domain distortion!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: dburna on 29 Aug 2018, 02:55 pm
I would love to learn more about the Gibbs Transient Optimised filter. I have the Pro iDSD on loan now (thanks, Tyler) and the GTO filter is my favorite so far.....even though I have NO idea what it does or how it does it. It sounds relaxed/natural, however. Kudos to the engineer behind this one!

-dGB

Quote from: iFi David on 28 Aug 2018, 11:17 pm
iFi audio - The GTO filter
Part 1/4 - The TL;DR

What iFi GTOTM is?

Based on AMR’s ‘Organic’ mode, the further refined iFi GTOTM Digital Filter resolves a number of audible problems associated with both classic digital filters AND non-oversampling systems, sounds on par (or better in optimal systems) to the latter and its transient optimised performance is similar.

How iFi GTOTM does it?


Our GTOTM filter tuned to fit inside the ‘ringing envelope’ of our own hearing makes ultrasonic ringing objectively measurable yet not perceived. It essentially ‘masks’ this time-domain distortion to make it inaudible.

Why do I want iFi GTOTM?

Because it provides natural sound free from audible time domain distortion!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 29 Aug 2018, 07:16 pm
Quote from: dburna on 29 Aug 2018, 02:55 pm
I would love to learn more about the Gibbs Transient Optimised filter. I have the Pro iDSD on loan now (thanks, Tyler) and the GTO filter is my favorite so far.....even though I have NO idea what it does or how it does it. It sounds relaxed/natural, however. Kudos to the engineer behind this one!

-dGB


We'll be gradually releasing tech behind our GTO very shortly. Stay strong, we'll deliver.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 13 Sep 2018, 11:25 pm
iFi audio - The GTO filter
Part 2/4 - Introducing the iFi GTO™ Digital Filter

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184389)

ALL DIGITAL FILTERS FOR AUDIO ARE WRONG.
ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING THE 'NO FILTER' OPTION.
THIS IS WHY WE NEED YET ANOTHER FILTER!

All digital filters (including no filter) differ in how they are wrong and how this influences objective measured performance as well as subjective listening performance with music and indeed, specific types of music. All digital filters add specific distortion signatures in either time vs. amplitude domain or frequency vs. amplitude domain. These distortions become all the more relevant the lower the sample rate. So, the most abundant digital music source -CD quality - is most impacted with greater possible audible consequences than High-Res content.

Wherever there is a difference, there is also a preference. Subjective listening preference may be informed by a range of factors including a learned or acquired response to recorded sound (e.g. what sounds ‘right’ or ‘hifi’ is not what sounds natural in comparison to a live performance), including direct referencing acoustic music performances.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184390)

However, with sufficient data from extensive listening tests and some inductive thinking, one should be able to propose and implement a digital filter that offers substantial improvements in removing ultrasonic noise over the ‘no filter’ (non-oversampling) case while avoiding as much as possible erring too far in the other direction with excessive and audible ringing.

So here it is - the ever so musical iFi GTO™ Digital Filter in the Pro iDSD which is the first ever seen in any DAC. In due course, technological hurdles permitting, we will try to implement it as a firmware upgrade for just about all[1] iFi audio digital products.

What is the iFi GTO™ Digital Filter?

The Gibbs Transient Optimised filter (GTO) is named after the ‘Gibbs phenomenon[2]’ in mathematics.

Wikipedia referred to the Gibbs phenomenon as “the peculiar manner in which the Fourier series of a piecewise continuously differentiable periodic function behaves at a jump discontinuity. The nth partial sum of the Fourier series has large oscillations near the jump, which might increase the maximum of the partial sum above that of the function itself. The overshoot does not die out as n increases, but approaches a finite limit.”

Most crucially, this is one cause of ringing artefacts’ in signal processing which the GTO addresses.

Way back in May 2011, the parent company of iFi audio, AMR, pioneered an earlier version of this filter in the DP-777 digital processor where it was available as an ‘Organic’ filter. Since 2011, more time has been invested into producing a filter that offered both better compatibility and technical performance than non-oversampling, while delivering a transient optimised performance that differs as little from non-oversampling as possible, delivering the new GTO™ filter.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184392)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184391)

Non-oversampling Transient response vs Organic- Digital Filter AMR DP-777

No doubt there will be extended debate if our GTO™ digital filter offers the right trade-off, compared to others. To us the two key qualities we sought was to shape of the unavoidable transient or time domain distortion so that is free of any ‘pre-ringing’ and that completes its impulse response within a fraction of the Haas (precedence effect) window; to remain in effect, inaudible to the human ear.

What we really refer to when we are talking about ringing in digital filters is actually a form of ‘Echo’ or ‘Reverb’ where, in addition to the actual transient time-shifted lower amplitude, copies of the impulse are generated using delay lines (see also the transients and digital filters section later on).

The human hearing itself is subject to an inherent transient post (impulse) ringing that completely decays within around 0.7mS[3] (see also the transients and the human hearing section later on).

The GTO filter’s transient post-ringing decays completely within 0.72mS for a 44.kHz source, ensuring that the unavoidable blurring of the transient response cannot be heard, but is integrated by the human hearing into the original transient.

This is in stark contrast to some alternative filter concepts. For example, the ‘Transient Aligned’ filter seeks a maximum number of taps, leading to an impulse response that falls well outside the Haas window. ie. its ‘ringing’ is very audible, in part because there is a pre-ringing (or pre-echo) present and in part through the sheer length of the delay line used.

For example, the 16k tap Transient Aligned filter in the Pro iDSD has an impulse response with equal pre- and post-ringing trail of around 186mS @ 44.1kHz sample rates, or a total 386mS worth of ringing. This is certainly sufficient time delay to be perceived as reverb. Using an even larger number of taps lengthens this impulse response even more.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184393)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184394)

Transient Aligned Digital Filter Transient response vs GTO™ Digital Filter iFi iDSD Pro

It may be of course, that some will prefer the sound of a very long filter, with large amounts of ringing/reverb/echo as the result is often perceived as extra added spaciousness, however, to anyone seeking to be close to the original musical performance such additives are usually unwanted.

In the end, with the iFi GTO filter, by keeping the filter short and without pre-ringing, the filter response is inaudible because it is masked by the limits of the human hearing system. At the same time this filter still permits significant attenuation of unwanted ultrasonic images, compared to non-oversampling and also other attempts at “low tap number digital filter”.

Analogy: if a 20million mega pixel camera was used to take a picture of a straight line, the naked eye would see only a straight line. As the resolution is ‘beyond’ that of the human eye, any ultra-fine imperfections are not ‘seen’. This is the same as with the GTO filter with human hearing.

If the GTO™ digital filter is so ‘perfect’, why include the other filters with the Pro iDSD? As remarked before, individual listeners may have different listening preferences and rather than imposing one option, even if we feel this option is not the best, we prefer to leave the choice down to the individual.

1) The original iDAC micro cannot receive this upgrade
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_phenomenon
3) “Response of the human tympanic membrane to transient acoustic and mechanical stimuli: Preliminary results” Payam Razavi, Michael E. Ravicz et al - Hear Res. 2016 Oct; 340: 15–24.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: dburna on 14 Sep 2018, 03:44 pm
As someone who spent recently about a month with the Pro iDSD, I can attest that the GTO filter works....and works well. It was definitely my favorite filter of the ones resident on the Pro. I am glad to receive this information now on the basics of how it works.

Can't wait until this is available as a firmware upgrade for my iDSD Micro. I doubt I'll use any of the other filters at that point. This one just seems to have a touch more clarity to it without being harsh or etched in the least (I am very sensitive to that type of sound).

Regards, -dGB
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 17 Sep 2018, 08:41 pm
iFi audio - The GTO filter
Part 3/4 - Introducing the iFi GTO™ Digital Filter

HOW TAPS RELATES TO WHAT IS HEARD

So far, we have identified that we prefer the GTO filter because it has few taps.
Because:

More taps = more reverberation.
Few taps = minimal reverberation

Reverberation  is artificial. Sound engineers add reverb to make recordings more spacious, artificially so. Digital filters introduce reverb by the nature of their operation. In fact, a digital reverb unit operates precisely like a digital filter in principle – as depicted in this diagram.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184551)

Within digital filters are Digital Delay Lines which is defined by Wikipedia:

"A digital delay line is a discrete element in digital filter theory, which allows a signal to be delayed by a number of samples.
Delays of N samples is notated as {z} ^{-N} motivated by the role the z-transform plays in describing digital filter structures.
Digital delay lines are widely used building blocks in methods to simulate room acoustics, musical instruments and digital audio effects."

To our ears, the GTO filter simply sounds ‘right’ without any hint of artefacts or exceptional detail that feels ‘processed’, by avoiding large number of tap’s that add excessive reverb.

TRANSIENTS AND THE HUMAN HEARING

The human ear is a marvelous system with an incredible dynamic range (~135dB in middle frequencies) huge bandwidth (almost 1:1000) and a transient resolving ability that exceeds the upper limit of hearing steady state tones. Yet it is also subject to limiting factors which result in, so to speak, “blind spots” in its behavior that do not exist in purely mechanical systems (e.g. microphone). These “blind spots” can mask some behavior which objectively is distortion to be inaudible. For example, harmonic distortion masking has been well documented since the at least the 1950s if not earlier and it is reasonable to consider that ‘ringing’ on transients is also masked to a certain degree. 

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184552)

If we wish to produce audio gear that is capable of operating in a way that subjectively sounds undistorted to the human hearing (the most logical preference), we must understand its limitations and capabilities. Here, we focus on the time-domain capabilities.

It has been shown that the human hearing’s time domain resolution for the initial transient may be as small as 5μs. Some debate remains as to the exact limits, though work done by Dr Peter Lennox of Derby University suggests a median between 13…18μs, or a location accuracy of less than 2 degrees.

Additionally, the transient response of the human hearing includes 500...700uS ringing caused by the ear’s mechanical system (Tympanic Membrane, Malleus / Incus / Stapes).

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184553)

This ringing occurs after a transient event, there is no pre-ringing. The ringing in the ear’s system will mask any similar external ringing, which will instead be integrated into the transient, so it is inaudible.

Any pre-ringing is not masked by the human hearing, nor is any ringing that continues substantially beyond 500...700uS.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 6 Oct 2018, 08:40 pm
Folks, RMAF!

Amazing show, amazing vibe, amazing visitors, amazing hardware! And we're there!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185243)

Many of our products are to be found at our place, including the full Pro stack (Pro iESL + Pro iCAN + Pro iDSD) and a number of fabulous headphones; Focal Utopia, Final D8000 etc.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185244)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185246)

And we have something very special in there too! The latest AMR DAC. For now we'll just put these pictures here, but in upcoming weeks we'll reveal more nfo about this machine!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185247)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185248)
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: OzarkTom on 24 Nov 2018, 04:38 am
Congratulations, a rave review on the PRO IDSD  from 6moons.

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/ifi/
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 21 Dec 2018, 09:31 pm
Quote from: OzarkTom on 24 Nov 2018, 04:38 am
Congratulations, a rave review on the PRO IDSD  from 6moons.

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/ifi/

Yup, we saw this and are very happy!

On a side note, it's almost holiday time...

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188218)

Also we encourage you to check out our winter playlist in Tidal!

https://tidal.com/playlist/8c5a9a27-70df-4acf-8cd5-a3c938b757cf
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 26 Dec 2018, 07:25 pm
Folks, we have something short and sweet for you today. Our Thorsten talks about Pro iDSD in the context of AMR's upcoming Diablo DAC. These two machines have A LOT in common and more nfo we'll reveal shortly. In the meantime, Thorsten himself, enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl-IraSd7Zw&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 28 Dec 2018, 08:38 pm
iFi audio – The 2018 Summary

It’s been quite the year…

Dear community,

2018 is coming to an end and we’ve decided to use this occasion to share with all of you good people a word or two. Many of our product ideas were developed from what you had to say, so we’re extremely grateful for your support. You’re the fuel to our fire, thank you!

The end of the year is also a good time to summarize what we were able to achieve in the last 12 months. Without further ado, here’s what we did:

Hardware

• March – xDSD

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188407)

Before this product came to be, we knew that we had to develop something very different from what we’d done before. We thought about many things – toasters with built-in speakers, a wind-up DAC for use in the dessert…only kidding! We aimed for a portable device with wireless functionality as good as a wired connection, improved volume control and a new look. Suffice to say, we strongly believe that with xDSD we were able to deliver on all counts. The toaster has had to wait!

• May - Pro iDSD

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188408)

The Pro iDSD is the most ambitious and complex product of ours to date. It started many years ago as a rather simple machine, but the more time passed, the more advanced it became. After years of suffering (and here we mean both ours AND yours, just take poor Curtis as an example), the Pro iDSD eventually came into being as a state-of-the-art desktop platform loaded with so many features that it's far easier to list things it doesn't do! Not only this, but the Pro iDSD also has A LOT in common with AMR's upcoming Diablo DAC. The former is actually a scaled down version of the latter and we're exceptionally proud of how it turned out.

• June - iFi OTG Cable

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188409)

We released this item due to huge demand. It's reliable, affordable, looks sleek and there's no rocket science behind it. It does the job where it should. It's useful. Hey, if we're capable of delivering headphone amps and DACs, who said that we can't make a quality OTG cable? And nope, before anyone asks, we can’t make the equivalent Apple cable – if we could, we (and the rest of the world) surely would!!! Sadly, Apple don’t share the tech that we’d need to make one work. Would you, if you were Apple?

• June - DC iPurifier2

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188410)

All our iPurifiers were developed to show that even a small and affordable item can really improve sound quality if backed by solid tech. The iPurifier2 is a step up over previous versions of this product, simply because our in-house developed circuitry got better over time. Practice makes perfect!

· July - iPurifier3.0

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188411)

USB sorters have always been of utmost importance to us and the iPurifier3.0 shows our attitude towards these items. This product might look nothing like our nano or micro iUSB3.0 machines, but its roots are the very same. It was designed to audibly improve the USB interface and very positive feedback from you guys out there showed us that it does just that! Thank goodness!

• October – xCAN

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188412)

Yet again X marked the spot in October! We really looked forward to releasing the xCAN. On the surface, it resembles our xDSD; they have similar set of features and they look very much alike, but the differences end there. Yes, each has finely implemented Bluetooth receiver, DAC and headphone amp in one neat enclosure BUT the xCAN is a portable and fully analogue amplifier above ALL else and its D/A conversion option is a cherry on top, whereas the xDSD - a DAC in the first place - is the exact opposite. Plus these two can work as a team and we have photographic evidence from you guys to prove it!

• November - Ear Plugs

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188413)

This one you didn't expect, huh? Us neither. But then again, we like silence and it’s yet another way to give you guys a low noise floor! (Plus they can protect your ears from the squeaks of protest when your loved one finds out you’ve bought yet another piece of audio equipment!) We try to think of everything…

Software

• March - MQA firmware for all nano and micro products

This firmware was one of the most important things for us in 2018. We didn't want to include MQA functionality in just one or two products, we wanted to roll things out across all suitable iFi goods, even some discontinued models. Even though the 5.30 'Cookies & Cream' firmware has some limitations, this is the one to go after if you'd like to listen to MQA regardless of the iFi audio DAC you use.

• October - GTO filter firmware for all nano and micro products

The GTO filter was a tricky thing to develop, but in the end, it surely was worth the effort. To our ears it sounds amazing enough to surpass every other filter out there and we encourage everyone to give this one a try. Hey, it comes at nil cost, improves sound and if you don't like it, you can always use our previously released firmware. That's a win-win right there.

• November - Beta MQA firmware for the Pro iDSD

Fully operational MQA on our Pro iDSD took us a fair bit longer than expected for a reason. (Poor Curtis was turning in his grave!). The amount of work needed in order to have this signal fully decoded was nothing short of staggering. Everything had to be coded from scratch. Both our team and MQA's engineers were involved in this project and we're ecstatic that we were
able to finally have this functionality ready. Enjoy!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188414)

Additionally, one thing we’re very proud of is that we were able to push our head of sales out of the UK office for well-deserved holiday. Blindfolded, the man was in shock and had no idea where he was transported. Since no laptops or comms with his team were allowed, after the adventure he told us that withdrawal shivers kicked in hard. But once he got off the plane and acknowledged he was in Iceland… Long story’s short, after this trip he returned as a new man. Even though he’s a good lad, we didn’t miss him at all but shhh…
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 6 Sep 2019, 02:07 pm
Folks, BIG NEWS!

Good people from NativeDSD shared with us something special, to now share it with you!

The following 5 tracks in DSD1024 are available now in this dropbox folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w7e9fztd56oebkm/AACoKRHGoTl5f8z18OYib1Cla?dl=0

...delivered directly by NativeDSD's mastering engineer Tom Caulfield.

These files are humongous, but surely worth the effort! Enjoy!
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: FreddyJ on 13 Sep 2019, 12:40 pm
Okay, so I have the AMR CD 77 - yup been around a long time - so I know who IFi. iFi sprang from AMR, right? So, I'm looking for a new DAC or DAC amp for my home set-up - my Titan amp finally gave up. Anyway - why should I choose the Pro iDSD? I know I can read all the reviews but give it to me in one paragraph - clean and simple? Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 23 Sep 2019, 08:43 pm
Pro iDSD is a fabulously musical DAC. And a headphone amp. And a preamp. And a streamer. And it works with pendrives loaded with music. And it has both transistors and tubes inside. And it has a bunch of digital filters to play with. And it upsamples music up to DSD1024. And... it does it all. Literally.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: Tyson on 23 Sep 2019, 08:56 pm
Quote from: iFi David on 23 Sep 2019, 08:43 pm
Pro iDSD is a fabulously musical DAC. And a headphone amp. And a preamp. And a streamer. And it works with pendrives loaded with music. And it has both transistors and tubes inside. And it has a bunch of digital filters to play with. And it upsamples music up to DSD1024. And... it does it all. Literally.

Also, it sounds better than my prior reference DAC for less than $5k - the Auralic Vega.  Which I owned prior to buying an iDSD Pro.
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 11 Oct 2019, 09:49 pm
 Folks, Pro iDSD Firmware v2.08 - now live on the website - https://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 17 Jan 2020, 09:07 pm
Self-taught acoustic guitar singer-songwriter David Elias lives in Hawaii. He has played music all his life. He has written songs since earliest teen years.

He became an adventurous musician online in the earliest Internet days and began self-producing a seemingly endless menu of music and styles, settings, backing bands and artists on his own label Sketti Sandwich Productions.

In the early 2000's he helped pioneer some of the first hi-res technologies (DSD) to create the most realistic listening reproductions for listeners in both stereo and surround sound as if you are in the studio with the artists performing.

Read what David has to say about iFi's Pro iDSD: https://art-of-listening.com/…/the-ultimate-media-refactor…/
Title: Re: Pro iDSD is the Kitchen Sink!
Post by: iFi David on 23 Jun 2020, 10:18 pm
Is Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN the best amp/DAC stack out there? I have no idea, but Joshua Valour addressed this question in truly great fashion. Please see this vid!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vwscVmZLsg&t=122s