[RenaissanceMan]

Hey everyone, just wanted to post my latest update... Over the last week, I had a chance to audition several pairs of speakers here in town and learned more of what I was looking for... It really is interesting how different some of the manufacturer's philosophies are when it comes to speaker 'tuning'. Ultimately after much listening and even more research, I ended up making an offer on the used Salk Songtower QWT's (thanks so much for the tip on those, Rocket!) and am having them shipped. So, hopefully by next week my speaker void will be filled and then I can at least be listening to music while I take some time to check out some integrated amplifier solutions.

[tull skull]

Congratulations RennMan. All of my interaction with Mr. Salk has been very positive and you have chosen well! Hope you are having fun as you gain experience.

[stlrman]

Congratulations on your purchase!
Did you hear the Salks? What did you audition?, and What were your impressions of those speakers? If you have the time to answer , it may be interesting to those who have followed or contributed to this thread.
Enjoy the music!!
Todd

[RenaissanceMan]

Congratulations on your purchase!
Did you hear the Salks? What did you audition?, and What were your impressions of those speakers? If you have the time to answer , it may be interesting to those who have followed or contributed to this thread.
Enjoy the music!!
Todd

Thanks! In answer to your first question, I did not get a chance to audition the Salks in person. I realize this is probably a massive speaker purchase 'no-no', but I had no way of hearing any locally. However, after having talked to a couple of owners of these, reading purchasers' reviews online, and also having a chance to talk to Jim Salk at long length about their characteristics over the phone, I have pretty high expectations that they are going to work well for me. Another benefit was that I happened to have almost identical musical tastes as the seller of the speakers, and I was able to speak with him in great detail about what I had heard so far and what his perceptions were of the Songtowers' sonic character. My understanding is that these are very forgiving with respect to placement. Being that I'm going to need to be no more than 8" away from the back wall, this was a huge concern. Also, they are very efficient on paper with an 88db sensitivity and should work for now with my Yamaha A/V receiver. What I gather from reading and speaking with owners is that they are fundamentally pretty accurate speakers, but have a 'warmth' or slight color to them that makes them very pleasant to listen to. I'm also told the soundstage that they "cast" has a lot of depth to it, and that is definitely a trait I am looking for. My goal is for the speakers to essentially disappear and make me feel like I am 'inside' the music. (Gee, I can't believe I'm just getting started and am already sounding this nerdy...) Even at the used price, the Salks were a little bit outside of my stated budget with shipping, but if I'm going to end up with a speaker I really love, I feel it's worth it.

I also listened to the Revel F12's, the B&W 683s, the Klipsch RF-52, a pair of Definitive Technology's (can't remember the model), and a couple other pairs that escape me right now. The Revel F12's were actually my second choice, as I was offered a really great deal on a new pair and I felt they performed well. They were very revealing in the midrange and didn't seem to have as many of the "scoops" across the frequency spectrum that some of the other speakers I listened to did. They also had nice low end and were very efficient. However, I didn't quite get that 'swimming in sound' feeling I was looking for. Also, not necessarily as sonically relevant but still significant in my decision, my wife felt that they were too large and intrusive for the setup of the room. The Revels were close to 10" wide and 14" deep, which meant they'd have to be placed even closer to our audio console and back wall.

I'll post back as soon as I receive the Salks and have a chance to hear them connected to my Yamaha...

[JLM]

Yep, buying speakers without audition is an absolute no-no, but Salk are extremely beautiful, good quality speakers.  Unfortunately while they do push some of my speaker buttons (love Jim, he's close-by to me, most use transmission line design) they only sound like "good hifi" (versus music) to me.  Hopefully they arrive in one piece.

The current/recent Def Tech towers are bi-poles, meaning that they have front and rear firing tweeters/midrange drivers, which is great for depth of soundstage but to work right requires about 3 feet clearance from the wall behind.

And by the way, 88 dB/w/m is only average efficiency which will limit the dynamic grip an average sized amp can have on them.  On the other hand you'll only need 3 watts per channel to reach 90 dB in a typical room, which is quite loud.

[RenaissanceMan]

Thanks for the post, JLM. I am still learning about specs and whatnot and had assumed the 88db rating of the Salks would allow me to temporarily use my Yamaha A/V receiver without too much trouble. I believe the Yamaha is 85w per channel RMS at an 8 ohm load. Do you think it will be safe to use with the Songtowers until I get something better?

It was certainly frustrating not being able to audition all of the speakers I wanted to hear in person, so I just did the best I could. I got a good enough deal on the Salks to believe that I'll be able to sell them without losing any money. That was what really sealed the deal for me. True, I am moving forward on a bit of faith here, but I'm hoping I'll be satisfied once I unpack them.

According to FedEx, the speakers should be arriving on Wednesday. I have to head out of town Wednesday night so I'm hoping I have at least a little bit of time to try them out before leaving. I'm super curious to hear these in person and will report back as soon as I spend a little time with them.

Yep, buying speakers without audition is an absolute no-no, but Salk are extremely beautiful, good quality speakers.  Unfortunately while they do push some of my speaker buttons (love Jim, he's close-by to me, most use transmission line design) they only sound like "good hifi" (versus music) to me.  Hopefully they arrive in one piece.

The current/recent Def Tech towers are bi-poles, meaning that they have front and rear firing tweeters/midrange drivers, which is great for depth of soundstage but to work right requires about 3 feet clearance from the wall behind.

And by the way, 88 dB/w/m is only average efficiency which will limit the dynamic grip an average sized amp can have on them.  On the other hand you'll only need 3 watts per channel to reach 90 dB in a typical room, which is quite loud.

[srb]

Your Yamaha RX-V690 rates the output at 8 ohms (80W/ch) and at 6 ohms (85W/ch).  The Canadian model has a two-position impedance selector switch for (1) 8 ohm or higher speakers or (2) for speakers of at least 4 ohms but less than 8 ohms.  This is a current limiting switch to help prevent the unit from going into temporary thermal shutdown, but does not appear to exist on the USA model.
 
The SongTowers are 6 ohms nominal (average) with a minimum of 4 ohms.  You should be able to safely connect them to the Yamaha if (a) you do not play them to a level which would overdrive the amp into clipping, which can damage speaker drivers and (b) provide decent ventilation on all sides.
 
Most modern receivers, including your Yamaha, have thermal protection circuitry which will shutdown the amplifier to prevent damage to it if the impedance is too low or if the volume is turned up to high, so the amplifier should be safe from damage.  Just don't turn it up to a clipping level (where there is audible distortion) to prevent damage to the speakers, as already mentioned.
 
You knew going into this that this particular receiver is not an optimal match for the new speakers, but with prudence and common sense you should be able to enjoy them until you can afford to upgrade amplification.  When you do, you will then be able extract the best from these speakers and at higher volumes as well.
 
I think you will be very happy with your speaker choice.
 
Steve

[RenaissanceMan]

Thanks for the detailed info, Steve!

[stlrman]

Whoops wrote to the wrong thread

[Rclark]

 I miss being a complete newbie. Complete newbies get to enjoy the greatest leaps. After this it's all incremental, possibly even boring.

My first purchase was an ERC-1 and even with my PC speakers the upgrade completely blew my mind.

[RenaissanceMan]

Well folks, unfortunately my foray into the audio world has not begun too well. Unfortunately, the SongTowers I purchased were damaged during shipping. I am now in the middle of the claims process with FedEx and am pretty bummed. Although the speakers were not completely destroyed, they suffered multiple 'wounds' in the form of dents and chipping off of the finish. I'm not interested in keeping damaged speakers, so it looks like I'll be starting over once I get my money returned. On a positive note, they do sound pretty good in spite of their looks.

[JLM]

Sorry to read of the damage.  Hope it all works out. 

When I bought commissioned (one of a kind) speakers (my "babies") a few years ago, I drove 200 miles, bought a hitch kit, rented a trailer, and lost about 4 hours of a family vacation with the diversion because I had such a fear of shipping damage.

Now you get to start the hunt all over again.   

[RenaissanceMan]

When I bought commissioned (one of a kind) speakers (my "babies") a few years ago, I drove 200 miles, bought a hitch kit, rented a trailer, and lost about 4 hours of a family vacation with the diversion because I had such a fear of shipping damage.

I totally understand. I really don't think I'm going to ever have speakers shipped again for risk of repeating this experience. I've already invested 4+ hours so far in video'ing and photographing the damage, numerous phone calls to the seller, several FedEx claims reps, 2 PayPal claims reps, etc, and now I'm going to have to pack up the speakers so that FedEx can pick them up and inspect the box, damage, etc... Sure takes all the fun out of it. Fortunately the seller is really cool and is trying to help any way he can with the process.

[putz]

Did the seller ship the speakers in the original Salk boxes?

[RenaissanceMan]

Did the seller ship the speakers in the original Salk boxes?

No. He didn't have them anymore. He had a custom box made for the speakers, and then packed them using foam wrap, bubble wrap, styrofoam, and stacked cardboard on all sides and edges. I suppose that could have been part of the problem; maybe the original box would have protected even more substantially. However, I thought the P.O. did a pretty darn good job of protecting them in the box. 

[putz]

Such a shame to sacrifice a pair of Salks this way. Salk would have probably sold you a set of boxes and you'd be listening to them right now instead of filing claims. I also learned the hard way on an audio shipment that got trashed cause the seller tried to ship the item single boxed with peanuts. Talk to the seller before you agree to a purchase and see how he intends to ship the item. Insist on original packaging and double boxing. Or buy local.

Hopefully someone else, newbie or not, reads this and avoids this kind of mess in the future.

Good luck with things.

[RenaissanceMan]

Such a shame to sacrifice a pair of Salks this way. Salk would have probably sold you a set of boxes and you'd be listening to them right now instead of filing claims. I also learned the hard way on an audio shipment that got trashed cause the seller tried to ship the item single boxed with peanuts. Talk to the seller before you agree to a purchase and see how he intends to ship the item. Insist on original packaging and double boxing. Or buy local.

Hopefully someone else, newbie or not, reads this and avoids this kind of mess in the future.

Good luck with things.

Thanks, Putz. I'm extremely bummed out, to say the least. These speakers were mint when they left. I spoke with the seller at long length about how he was going to ship them, and it sounded like he had all bases covered. You can tell from examining the box that it was most likely dropped on a corner, and also had been punctured in 3 different places by Lord-knows-what. The box also had creases, indicating that it slightly 'buckled' under stress or had been impacted pretty hard. I truly believe that had the box not been so roughly handled, the speakers would have arrived intact. But like you said, the original boxes might have prevented damage even in this case. Hard to tell, but regardless I won't be walking down this road again for future purchases. 

[putz]

Not to beat a dead horse, but were both speakers shipped in one box? It sounds like that based on your description. I'm glad the seller is being helpful cause he really dropped the ball on this one.

[RenaissanceMan]

Not to beat a dead horse, but were both speakers shipped in one box? It sounds like that based on your description. I'm glad the seller is being helpful cause he really dropped the ball on this one.

Yes, one box.

[RenaissanceMan]

Hey everyone-

Well, I'm back. It took about 6 weeks but my saga had a happy ending. I'm not sure what ultimately happened with the seller and the FedEx claim, but he was cool enough to send me all of my money back while he continued to try and work things out with FedEx.

So... over the last few weeks I ended up starting my speaker search completely over. I had a chance to audition more speakers locally and ended up finding 2 pairs I really liked, both out of my former price range but impressive nonetheless. At this point I'm either going to go with a pair of Goldenear Triton 2 Towers or a pair of Revel F-32s. Both sound very different, but offer different benefits. The Triton 2's, with their built-in subs, had absolutely fantastic low-end and punch and an overall smoothness to them that struck me as probably being non-fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time... The F-32s had a more revealing midrange to my ears, and a bit more clarity overall. They definitely sounded like the more 'accurate' of the 2 pairs. In fact, they reminded me a little of the SongTowers. I could see myself enjoying either of these speakers for a long time, and I like that I can purchase them locally. I hope to make a decision in the next day or so. The wife is pushing for the Tritons, as she feels the F-32s will be too wide for our current console setup. 

I also found an unbelievable deal on a couple of old school Yamaha power amps recently, and had to pick them up. One is a PC1002, which I am now using to power an old pair of Yamaha NS10Ms in my recording studio. The other is a mammoth PC2002M, which I am hoping to integrate into my hi-fi system. I've read a lot about these amps and there are evidently some folks out there using these in their systems with success. Do any of you have any experience with either of these amps, particularly the PC2002M? What do y'all think about the idea of finding a complementary preamp for this and using it in my system? It's 240w/ch and dead quiet... Would it be a decent choice for 2ch at home? If so, what would be some good preamps to consider?

I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback!