AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Bent Audio Owners => Topic started by: poseidonsvoice on 9 Jul 2013, 12:12 am

Title: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 9 Jul 2013, 12:12 am
My personal incarnation of Dave Slagle & John Chapman's fully balanced Bent Audio TAP-X. The name (Lazarus), although having biblical references is used in a slightly different context,in order to appease the moderators and AC rules, i.e. Lazarus taxon or Lazarus phenomenon which apparently denotes organisms that reappear in the fossil record, after a period of apparent extinction. The TAP-X, over the years has undergone its own series of transformations (!), primarily the switch from transformer (Stevens & Billington) to autoformer (Intact Audio), as well as a newer enclosure which is presented here.

Ingredients for my (re)incarnation are as follows:



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83253)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83254)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83262)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83263)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83265)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83266)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83267)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83286)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83287)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83288)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83289)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83290)

If you want to see higher resolution photos, just go to my gallery here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=10720), select the photo, and pick 'HUGE.'

The build itself can be done by the novice, but with patience. Note that the input wiring most likely will look like a 'mesh' as it ensures the ability to easily service the unit, should the need arise. Use stranded wire here or else problems can surface when reassembling the enclosure, as smaller gauge solid core wire could snap easily. The output wiring and grounding looks much neater, as I have essayed to do myself.

Comments and questions, welcome. I will post my sonic impressions in a few weeks, probably under the 'Critics Circle' for wider appeal.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 9 Jul 2013, 12:18 am
Look good!   :thumb:

Sonically I think you will hear that it just doesn't have a sound.  The measurements http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115115.0 are absolutely superb as you have seen.

I love mine and I'm sure you will love yours too.   :D
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: Nick77 on 9 Jul 2013, 12:25 am
Wow! Another beautiful Poseidon piece, bet it sounds magnificent.  :thumb:

Congrats, cant wait to hear your impressions.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: richidoo on 9 Jul 2013, 12:38 am
Congratulations Anand, you do fine work! Hope you can bring it to our G2G!
Rich
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: WireNut on 9 Jul 2013, 01:13 am
I love it. Has exactly the ins/outs I'm considering. I've been talking with John Chapman the last 3 days. What a helpful guy he is. Really taught me a lot about balanced and unbalanced equipment and how the Tap-X works with each type. Can't wait to here your impressions.
The case looks great. Thanks for the HUGE pics, really helpful.
   
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: DaveC113 on 9 Jul 2013, 02:05 am
Wow, looks great!  :thumb:

Seems like a good alternative to an active pre since more gain is rarely needed. I would love to hear how an autoformer compares to a decent stepped attenuator sometime...



Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: happyrabbit on 9 Jul 2013, 02:21 am
Nice Remote...Beats the plastic version.    :green:

Dwight

.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: mgalusha on 9 Jul 2013, 03:12 am
Beautiful work Anand, as usual I might add. :thumb: I had to have one after hearing or rather not hearing one, perhaps the only actually transparent piece of gear I've ever owned.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: WireNut on 9 Jul 2013, 03:57 am

 Is this the new AVC-1 John's been working on/talking about with the exception of your mods :?:



   
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: JohnR on 9 Jul 2013, 09:04 am
Nice work  :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 9 Jul 2013, 10:28 am
Is this the new AVC-1 John's been working on/talking about with the exception of your mods :?:

Yes.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: Chris Adams on 9 Jul 2013, 12:20 pm
Very, very nice build, Anand! I think I'm going to have to hear on of these. If I can have the transparency claimed and remote, I'm in.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 9 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm
If I can have the transparency claimed
I promise, you can.

Quote
and remote, I'm in.
johnc@bentaudio.com
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: rklein on 9 Jul 2013, 01:31 pm
WOW!!  :thumb:

Another amazing build by my DIY hero.  Great stuff Anand!

I had the opportunity to hear the new TAP-X over at Mike Galusha's while I was out visiting my son in CO.  Mike got to play with my Exasound E20 DAC and I got to hear his wonderful system.  Mike also has the new enclosure and the TAP-X not only preforms great it looks great.

Congrats and enjoy your new build.

Regards,

Randy
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: John Chapman on 9 Jul 2013, 09:56 pm
Hello!

Very nice build for sure! Time to enjoy it now that the work is done.

Thanks so much for taking time to post pics and the detailed description.

Thanks!

John
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 10 Jul 2013, 12:22 am
Wow!  Great work!  Would love to hear it.

If one so desired, could one build unbalanced four channel with remote ganged master volume and remote trim (+/-10 dB range) for two of the four channels? 

If linear level steps what is magnitude in dB?  If level steps are non-linear, please quantify. 

What if any is schematic difference, transformer vs. autoformer? 

For anyone who has AB'd Bent vs. active preamp >$6k-8k USD I'd love to hear your impressions. 
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 10 Jul 2013, 12:41 am
For anyone who has AB'd Bent vs. active preamp >$6k-8k USD I'd love to hear your impressions.
No comparison if you wan the ultimate in transparency & neutrality.  Bent TAP-X!!!
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 10 Jul 2013, 01:03 am
Wow!  Great work!  Would love to hear it.

If one so desired, could one build unbalanced four channel with remote ganged master volume and remote trim (+/-10 dB range) for two of the four channels? 

I'll leave John to answer this one.

Quote
If linear level steps what is magnitude in dB?  If level steps are non-linear, please quantify. 

1dB steps. Note that this is a custom unit, and each of these Bent/Slagle autoformers cost $475 each. So for my fully differential/balanced build the autoformer cost alone was about $1900. Single ended would be $950/pair. It's a premium unit!

Quote
What if any is schematic difference, transformer vs. autoformer? 

This FAQ written by Dave Slagle should answer most of your queries: http://www.intactaudio.com/atten_FAQ.html

Quote
For anyone who has AB'd Bent vs. active preamp >$6k-8k USD I'd love to hear your impressions.

I know a few who had the 'DUDE' preamp and well...now they own the TAP-X, for what it's worth.

People need to first determine if they have excess gain in their system. Most do. If that is the case, and a TAP-X is in your budget, then run to John Chapman, before he comes to his senses :wink:.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 10 Jul 2013, 01:11 am
I know a few who had the 'DUDE' preamp and well...now they own the TAP-X, for what it's worth.
Best,
Anand.
I also tried the Zesto Leto against it...
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 10 Jul 2013, 03:38 am
I owned Bongiorno's $7500 Ambrosia line stage (2012 TAS award winner) and am very familiar with VTL's $17k tube preamp with SS output buffers. No tube line stage I know of compares favorably to Ambrosia.  Not close.  Noise (tube "whoosh"), coloration, etc.  Possibly the Dude and Leto are exceptions.  Modjeski's excellent Music Reference 100W tube amp employs all SS devices prior to the output tubes.   

I'd still love to hear the Bent autoformers.  On tube line stages, transformer output (VAC, at least one Asian brand) is preferable to tube output buffer.  Steve McCormack said his DNA500 SS amp performance improved with transformer input coupler vs. capacitor or transistor.  Lynn Olson's tube amps employ transformer coupling rather than tubes or capacitors.

The only "problem" with transformers is that high quality and high performance always costs real money.  I suspect OEM avoid it only because of cost and never for reasons associated with performance.

Can you imagine MSRP for this "Lazarus" transformer attenuator with dealer markup?  $15k?   

I suspect the component I'm using for line preamp employs a stepped ladder resistor switch (ala Shallco) shrunk and integrated into a line op-amp with requisite gain.  I often wondered if such op-amps with integrated level control exist only in mass market components or if such op amps are available to small OEM and/or DIY.

Compared to discreet circuits op-amps have magnitudes tighter tolerance for component values.       

   
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: John Chapman on 10 Jul 2013, 04:32 pm
Hello!

For James:

the other replies catch many of your questions (1db steps, etc) but in answer to:

"If one so desired, could one build unbalanced four channel with remote ganged master volume and remote trim (+/-10 dB range) for two of the four channels?"

Maybe call or e-mail and we can back up to the exact application and work from there. It is not impossible to do a trim like that but it does have some possible gotcha's - like what do you do when you are trimmed up or down a lot and you get near the ends of the volume range, etc... Also how do we show the user exactly what the trim value is - possible with a lot of customization (programming) but that can be hard to do in a one off build.

Thansk!

John
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 10 Jul 2013, 07:34 pm
Thanks, John.  Yes, I see the +/-10dB trim function introduces at least two obstacles you describe, both of which did not occur to me.  Same as ever no "free lunch" no matter how hard and long we search!

This system employs a pure analog Trinaural Processor (stereo in, 3.0 or 3.1 output) between the source and multi-ch preamp.  I use the Bass trim most often, less often the C Ch trim (a Trinaural quirk is increased performance with C Ch attenuated several dB while processing spaced omni recordings ala Telarc, etc.) 

Trinaural can fit between stereo preamp and the power amps.  I suppose the Bent test would be whether its increased performance (simple remote stereo unbalanced kit) outweighs the loss of Bass trim and C Ch trim.

From prior link:
Quote
To be more specific, an ordinary transformer has separate primary (input) and secondary (output) windings, while an autoformer shares some part of the winding between the two.


It looks like an autoformer could be described as one side of a transformer (primary or secondary) with multiple taps.  Is this right?   
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: John Chapman on 10 Jul 2013, 07:54 pm
Hello!

"Trinaural can fit between stereo preamp and the power amps. "

Although it would get a bit elaborate you could put the trinaural after the pre then have a 1 or 2 more channels (center and maybe 0.1 sub if you need to remote trim that too) to do the trim that would slide into the feed from processor to the power amp. This is only warranted if you must have remote trims. If you want to trim manually (or just set up the system for a couple trims on a toggle switch, etc...) those feeds then there are less expensive and just as good sounding ways to do that.


"It looks like an autoformer could be described as one side of a transformer (primary or secondary) with multiple taps.  Is this right?   "

Yes - it is most like the secondary of a TVC volume control - the side with the volumes taps. As a matter of fact some folks preferred to wire the TVC's as autofomers  back (by connecting the secondary only) when I used to sell TVC units many years back.

Thansk!

John


Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 10 Jul 2013, 10:41 pm
No comparison if you wan the ultimate in transparency & neutrality.  Bent TAP-X!!!

Jason,
Is your Bent autoformer balanced or unbalanced?  What is length of your IC, autoformer to NC400?  Cable type? 

Anand,
What is length of your balanced IC, autoformer to power amps (NC400 IIRC)?  Cable type?     
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 10 Jul 2013, 10:47 pm
Is your Bent autoformer balanced or unbalanced?
Balanced.  In fact, mine was the first!
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 10 Jul 2013, 10:51 pm
Do you guys ever think about how strange it is that some members make and own stuff like the Bent item discussed here, that perform better than stuff priced up to ten thousand dollars in stores? 
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: WireNut on 10 Jul 2013, 10:56 pm
Do you guys ever think about how strange it is that some members make and own stuff like the Bent item discussed here, that perform better than stuff priced up to ten thousand dollars in stores?

Hell yeah, that's why we do it :green:. It's not strange It's awesome :thumb:
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 10 Jul 2013, 11:17 pm
Jason,
Is your Bent autoformer balanced or unbalanced?  What is length of your IC, autoformer to NC400?  Cable type? 

Anand,
What is length of your balanced IC, autoformer to power amps (NC400 IIRC)?  Cable type?   

Length is 1M, but it could be 10M for all I care as the Bent unit will drive it. Yes, NC400. The details of my system are finely delineated on my systems page.

BTW, the type of cable from what I recall seems to matter less with units designed around autoformers. So if you want to splurge, go ahead, but you don't have to. The measurements of the Bent unit (see earlier in thread) explains why, as well as the incredibly low output impedance.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 10 Jul 2013, 11:50 pm
What is length of your IC, autoformer to NC400?  Cable type? 

I see that you added some text since I last answered.  2M from TAP-X > ATSAH and 1M from TAP-X to DCX > 2M from DCX to two of the bandpass sub amps.  The other subs have 6M (20') from the DCX.

All DH Labs.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: TomS on 11 Jul 2013, 02:31 am
I use 24' DH Labs Air Matrix XLR from a balanced TAP-X to a pair of Atsahs for mains and a 6' pair to a DCX2496 in parallel. No problems at all, even at that length and 20k ohm DCX input load.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 11 Jul 2013, 03:22 am
Do you guys run stock DCX2496 high pass to main speakers? 

John, would you consider a so-called "tour" of a Bent stereo autoformer?  Manual volume unbalanced is fine for me.  I need only audition for two-three days maximum.  If yes, consider me first on the list! 
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: WireNut on 11 Jul 2013, 06:09 am
Ok, I have a question.

Do any of you guy's run a phono stage like the Vista Audio phono preamp into your TAP-X, or are you running a CD/DAC setup only thru your Tap-X?





 
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: jtwrace on 11 Jul 2013, 09:35 am
Do you guys run stock DCX2496 high pass to main speakers? 
As noted above, the mains do not go through the DCX.  They run full range.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 11 Jul 2013, 10:19 am
Ok, I have a question.

Do any of you guy's run a phono stage like the Vista Audio phono preamp into your TAP-X, or are you running a CD/DAC setup only thru your Tap-X?

Yes, run all SOURCES to the TAP-X. It doesn't matter if it is a master tape, vinyl, cd/digital or a radio. All the matters is that you have enough overall gain in your system, as the TAP-X has 7dB or less gain (2X).

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: TomS on 11 Jul 2013, 12:57 pm
I run both a Zesto Andros single ended output phono stage and an Auralic Vega balanced output DAC and I have way more than enough steam for both.

Same as others, I don't use the high pass out of the DCX2496.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: mgalusha on 11 Jul 2013, 01:38 pm
More of the same here. Auralic VEGA (or whatever is at hand) and BHL phono through the TAP-X. I have ~20ft balanced runs to the power amps and another ~25 pair of balanced runs to a slightly modded DCX that runs the subs. IOW there is nearly 100ft of cable after the TAP-X. I have yet to encounter a source that doesn't work well.

I previously had a Lindemann 24/192 DAC that has only 1.4VRMS of output. Only if I wanted to turn it up to 11 would I end up with the TAP-X wide open and providing a bit of gain. The Auralic is 4.3VRMS and I've never come close to running wide open. Same with an assortment of other DAC's and phono stages I've had the opportunity to hear in the last few months. Note my speakers are ~97dB/W/M, so I need less gain than many folks. My TAP-X is the same as Anand's, Tom's and Jason's electrically, 4SE inputs, 2BAL and 2 of each on the output. I did start out with one of the old style very deep cases but after seeing the new one that was shallower I ran my TAP-X case through the table saw. :)
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: TomS on 11 Jul 2013, 01:54 pm
I still have the older deep case which I use to park an extra SUV in  :thumb:
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 11 Jul 2013, 03:16 pm
I still have the older deep case which I use to park an extra SUV in  :thumb:

I suppose, then, my Chevy HHR will easily fit?
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: John Chapman on 11 Jul 2013, 04:22 pm
Hello!

For James re: having a tour. I did do just such a tour many years back and it was actually quite a hassle. Too bad because I had (naively I guess) hoped it would be great fun!  Most folks were really good about it but a couple times folks hung onto it way longer than they promised and then add in some packing / shipping incidents and it was less than fun.... Worst of those was that one guy pulled the lid off then packed it in a box with Styrofoam peanuts. The thing showed up at the next stop jam packed full of the packing materials. Less than impressive.... Anyway with the small margins I run here I just can't afford the cost and time and hassles.

The best way to do that trial is to just grab a pair of Dave Slagles manual modules and slap some cables on them. They are here:

http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html

Then you can play and just find a new home for them later or keep'em around as they are handy to have. Some guys use them for padding levels between amps, etc... If you sell them after you are done ( maybe to someone who does not solder ) I'll bet it would not be a great deal more expensive than the ship charges for a full on pre-amp.

BTW - here is a link to a project done with those modules by Dick Olsher:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0611/slagle_autoformer_volume_control_modules.htm

If you don't need remote it's a super way to go and far less expensive than the AVC-1 route.

Thansk!

John
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: WireNut on 11 Jul 2013, 06:23 pm
John,

Great information as always. Your honesty, integrity, and knowledge are inspiring. Thank you once again.

Steve





Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: dBe on 13 Jul 2013, 09:23 pm
What an amazing build!  That is an spectacular execution of a near to perfection design.

 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Dave
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: James Romeyn on 13 Jul 2013, 09:59 pm
Hello!

For James re: having a tour. I did do just such a tour many years back and it was actually quite a hassle. Too bad because I had (naively I guess) hoped it would be great fun!  Most folks were really good about it but a couple times folks hung onto it way longer than they promised and then add in some packing / shipping incidents and it was less than fun.... Worst of those was that one guy pulled the lid off then packed it in a box with Styrofoam peanuts. The thing showed up at the next stop jam packed full of the packing materials. Less than impressive.... Anyway with the small margins I run here I just can't afford the cost and time and hassles.

The best way to do that trial is to just grab a pair of Dave Slagles manual modules and slap some cables on them. They are here:

http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html

Then you can play and just find a new home for them later or keep'em around as they are handy to have. Some guys use them for padding levels between amps, etc... If you sell them after you are done ( maybe to someone who does not solder ) I'll bet it would not be a great deal more expensive than the ship charges for a full on pre-amp.

BTW - here is a link to a project done with those modules by Dick Olsher:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0611/slagle_autoformer_volume_control_modules.htm

If you don't need remote it's a super way to go and far less expensive than the AVC-1 route.

Thansk!

John

Thanks John for this excellent advice.  Sorry the tour had so many issues; I sympathize with the problems described. 
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 18 Jun 2017, 02:21 am
Well...time to resurrect this thread. About 8 weeks ago, I contacted the Slagle/Chapman group about the possibility of upgrading my Lazarus to silver AVC status. About 8 weeks later, they arrived!

1st some pics of the previous copper AVC:

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6196_zpsn7rzxzvw.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6196_zpsn7rzxzvw.jpg.html)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6194_zpsmap6d3cl.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6194_zpsmap6d3cl.jpg.html)

Notice the super fine 30+ gauge wire, some serious skills to solder that bugger. Kudos to Dave Slagle. And thanks to Chapman for testing them.

Next the silver AVC, observe the change in the color of the wire:

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6187_zpsukogludk.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6187_zpsukogludk.jpg.html)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6186_zpskjcqxua7.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6186_zpskjcqxua7.jpg.html)

Apparently it's made out of unobtanium, judging by the cost  :duh:

More pics of the silver AVC by itself:

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6179_zpspcurvn4g.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6179_zpspcurvn4g.jpg.html)

And now in my Lazarus  :icon_twisted: :

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6193_zpsirjqcgmc.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6193_zpsirjqcgmc.jpg.html)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6192_zpsshiyssco.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6192_zpsshiyssco.jpg.html)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6189_zpsscdve4mk.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Poseidons%20Voice%20Lazarus/IMG_6189_zpsscdve4mk.jpg.html)

It's pretty much indistinguishable from the copper AVC until you get close, but sonically...well, I'll just have to wait and see  :P

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: Folsom on 18 Jun 2017, 05:01 am
Do tell after you get some hours on it.
Title: Re: Poseidon's Voice Lazarus
Post by: DaveC113 on 18 Jun 2017, 02:03 pm
Nice, I'd like to pick up a set myself but not quite ready yet... luckily I'll only need 2 of them.  :green: