AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Multi-Category Reviews => Topic started by: pugs on 25 Jun 2006, 04:57 am
-
I'm in the process of replacing my amps, preamp, and cables. I plan on updating this thread as I receive each new piece and have some time to evaluating them.
I like to review things by comparing to other experiences I have had. In the audio world, I don have a lot of experience, so I will be focusing on comparing just a few pieces of eqipment.
Here's what will remain constant:
Room:
- 12 x 23, equipment on 12' wall, and ceiling sloped from 8' (equipment end) to 16' on back wall
- Big red couch pretty much in the middle of the room
- 3 x GIK 242 panels. 2 are at the first reflection points, and the third goes in fron of the big screen when critically listening
- 6 x GIK 244 panels. 2 each stacked from floor to ceiling in the front corners. 2 each hung fronm from ceiling 8 feet down in the back two corners
- 4 x 8th nerve response seams at wall to ceiling joint at approximately seating depth. 2 on each side.
- 2 x 8th nerve response seams place horizonatally in center of wall to ceiling joint on front wall end to end.
- 3 windows towards front of left wall
- Sliding glass door at right corner of of right wall
- Floor is tile with a rug covering the front half of the room
- Ceiling is wood with horizontal beams running across it
- Approximately 48" wide opening towards back right wall leading into the rest of the house which is very open.
- Back wall has computer desk and hutch
- Big wood file cabinet towards the back of the left wall
Constant equipment:
Speakers: Salk HT3 (L&R), Salk HTC, Magnepan MMG-W surrounds
Source: Vinnie full modded SB3 with new analog mods and battery power supply
Receiver: Denon AVR4800
DVD player: Pioneer DV-47A
Power conditioners: Monster HTS3600, and HTS2000. Used to plug in everything but amps
Cable box: Motorola high def DVR
TV: 55" widescreen HD Mitsubishi
Racks: DIY flexi rack on each side of the TV. Video and HT equipment on one side and 2ch on the other
Equipment that will or has changed:
Amps:
Old: Odyssey Mono Extremes with custom upgrades (already gone)
B&K ST2140 stereo 2 x 140W
New: Channel Islands D-200 coming in about a week
Preamp:
Old: Odyssey Tempest (already gone)
New: Modwright SWL 9.0SE (received it 2 days ago)
Cables:
Old: - Silver Audio Silver Bullet 4.0 ICs from source to pre and pre to amp
-Groneberg quattro reference power and speakers cables, and IC's. All out of the system
now except for 3m IC's running from pre to receiver for HT bypass
- Monster Z1 speaker cables for front three channels
New: Reality cables speaker cable and IC's
System comments
Never really been satisfied with 2ch system. It was at it's best when I had the Odyssey Lorelei's years ago for a short time in my old house. There has always been some harshness, brightness and fatigue in my system to varying degrees. My latest system in my new house, first with NHT 2.5i mains, then Salks is better, but still not that satisfying considering the amount of money I spent on my system. I think my room suck up a lot of bass, and I haven't been getting the amount of bass, heft, smoothness and fullness that I want. There are times when I think I should give up and stop spending so much money trying to acheive sound that seems unatainable
Home Theatre was really good when I had the Mono Extremes and Salks for the front three channels. I absolutely love my Magnepan MMG-W surrounds. HT is not nearly as good with the Mono Extremes out of the system. Now I have the Denon powering the center and B&K powering the L&R channels,
First Up - Modwright SWL 9.0SE
What Frank Van Alstine said about the Salks (winners after the first three notes) is how I feel about the Modwright. I have only had it for two day, but feel it is the finest piece of equipment I have ever had. I have never felt so compelled to right a review and share to the world how great a piece of equipment is.
I'm going to try to not sound too negative about the Tempest, but I need to tell it like it is. I really feel like I waisted a lot of time and money using the Tempest. I always liked the sound of my system better when feeding my source directly to my amps (first Cary 303/200, then the SB3), but I needed the HT bypass.
The Modwright far, far exceeds the performance of the Tempest. It creates such a more open, defined soundstage with depth I have never heard before. Sound is so much more rich and smooth with no fatigue! Imaging is so much better and the transparency is incredible. I still needs needs some break in too!
The Tempest was much more closed in, with an edge that became fatiguing. There was always a hiss to some degree coming from my speakers when using it. The Modwright is DEAD quiet. I have so much more bass and overall fullness of sound with the Modwright.
Even though the Mono Extremes had to go anyway because of their size, I rally wish I could of heard them using the Modwright as a pre. I really feel the Tempest was the weak link.
Right now I could use a little more impact. Sound overall is just a little soft, but very smooth. I am so happy to get rid of the fatigue and edginess out of my system. I am a little concerned with the low gain of the Modwright. I have to turn it up a lot (about 3:00 or more) to make it loud. We'll see how it goes when I get the Chanel Islands D-200's in about a week and Reality cables in about 2 weeks
I really have to thank Dan Wright for creating a piece of equipment that has restored my faith and exitement for this money sucking hobby. It is the most satisfying piece of equipment I have ever owned. This is all with using a $600 B&K amp and Monster speaker cables. I can't wait until I get the Reality cable and D-200's.
I have never types so much at once in my life. To be continued................
-
Please excuse all of my typos. I have to go and my hands hurt.
-
We have fairly similar systems! I'm running Salk HT3's, a Modwright SWL 9.0SE (have had mine about a week!), Bolder Cable modified SB2, and a Blue Circle BC32 5ch amp. I'm looking to get some decent cabling in here in the near future, using some old low-end Audioquest cables right now. An HTC, and 2 HT1's are on the way to complete the home theater side of things. Not sure what pre-pro I'm going to use yet though -- something not super-expensive as the feature sets seem to change frequently still.
So far I'm pretty impressed with the Modwright pre-pro. Right out of the box it sounded quite good with perhaps a hint of edginess in the treble. After having it playing for somewhere around 130-140 hours now, it seems to have lost the glare I heard when I initially hooked it up. The Modwright replaced a Blue Circle BC21.1 pre-amp, and after I get another 100 or so hours on the Modwright, I'll probably do some listening tests to see if I still like the Modwright better or not.
-
Hi Pugs,
Yep, i know how you feel as i've sunk a lot of money into my system. I had a beta modwright and i wish i'd had the money to keep the modwright full production model. Oh, well you never know i might be able to purchase one again.
What gain did you request for the d200's? Let us know how you go.
Regards
Rod
-
I ordered them with 26 db of gain. I ordered them before getting the modwright. I'm not too concerned about it. I'll just have to wait and see. The Tempest on the other hand had too much gain. I rarely could turn it up past 10:00 or 11:00 without it getting too loud. At my old house, I could barely turn it up past 9:00 to 10:00. It's much easier to control the volume with the remote on the Modwright compard to the Tempest.
I was listening to a Dave Mathews song today and noticed there were two guitars playing the same thing. I never noticed that before. It always sounded like one guitar. I thought that was pretty cool. I am hearing new subtleties I have never heard before. I was tapping both feet. Last night I fell asleep on the couch listening to Morphine. It's exciting listening to all of my music again.
-
You should be fine on gain with the Modwright/D-200 combo.
My D-200's are 26DB and my TacT 2.2x doesn't add any gain into the equation. I never had any issues with controlling volume or not getting enough juice.
George
-
Depending on how you like the sound of your system, you might try Sylvania GB-5687 Gold Brand tubes in the SWL9.0SE. When I owned the Modwright preamp, I found the Sylvania tubes were more natural sounding and less etched than any of the other typical tubes used in the SWL9.0SE...including cryo'd Tung Sols.
Thanks. My 9.0SE came with Raytheon NOS 5687's. Do you know how those compare to the ones you mentioned?
-
I I always liked the sound of my system better when feeding my source directly to my amps (first Cary 303/200, then the SB3), but I needed the HT bypass.
so how does the Modwright compare to running your source directly?
-
Congrats on the Modwright. Dan is a genius. Be aware of the good things coming: the pre opens up at 100hrs, and then finally opens up completely at 200 hrs. Really! It's those damn Teflon sonicaps. To burn it in sooner than later make sure a source is connected and it's sending a signal (cdp on repeat or tuner with interstation noise) The amp doesn't need to be on.
-
I I always liked the sound of my system better when feeding my source directly to my amps (first Cary 303/200, then the SB3), but I needed the HT bypass.
so how does the Modwright compare to running your source directly?
I haven't done a direct comparison. From memory, source to amp is more transparent, a little thinner, more natural, and less colored. I remember imaging was very nice also. It was a lot smoother than with the Tempest. The Modwright is more holographic, softer, richer, with more bass. There is more heft and fuller body to the sound. There is some coloration with the Modwright, which for me is not a bad thing as of now.
Since having the Veracities, I have learned that I don't necessarily want to hear the whole truth. Maybe I would want that if all of my recording were great, but they are not. I think I like a little softness and coloration. The Modwright helps make all of my recordings listenable again. I don't have to retire 50% of my music anymore.
After I get my D-200's, I might try rolling some tubes. I would like more impact, bass and an even richer midrange. This is with my $600 B&K, so I expect the D-200's will be a lot better.
-
Hmmm, if you mean by new RW SB mods that the opamps were changed instead of removed then I agree with Zybar that you've got plenty of gain. Unfortunately the original RW SB mods that bypassed the opamps dropped it to ~1v didn't they?
26dB gain is standard for UCD400 modules (D200 is a modded UCD400). 26dB gain needs 2v input for max output power. Most sources today can easily provide enough.
-
After I get my D-200's, I might try rolling some tubes. I would like more impact, bass and an even richer midrange. This is with my $600 B&K, so I expect the D-200's will be a lot better.
I'm not a person to discourage tube rolling as I've done that plenty in my amp and preamp. But your talk of wanting "more impact, bass and even richer midrange" sounds exactly like a new piece of gear that hasn't broken in yet. Give yourself some time for the capacitors to break in, then you'll have a baseline sound from which to compare different tube choices.
Congratulations on all the new gear. I'm happy for you that it's changing how you listen to and enjoy music.
-
Hmmm, if you mean by new RW SB mods that the opamps were changed instead of removed then I agree with Zybar that you've got plenty of gain. Unfortunately the original RW SB mods that bypassed the opamps dropped it to ~1v didn't they?
26dB gain is standard for UCD400 modules (D200 is a modded UCD400). 26dB gain needs 2v input for max output power. Most sources today can easily provide enough.
I don't seem to have the problem of not enough gain anymore. I think it was a combination of some of the music I was playing and that I was used to the high gain of the Tempest. I have had a lot more time listening to it, and I haven't had any more issues with not having enough gain. 3:00 is about the highest I want to turn it up.
I have the newer analog mods with the opamp in my SB3.
-
After I get my D-200's, I might try rolling some tubes. I would like more impact, bass and an even richer midrange. This is with my $600 B&K, so I expect the D-200's will be a lot better.
I'm not a person to discourage tube rolling as I've done that plenty in my amp and preamp. But your talk of wanting "more impact, bass and even richer midrange" sounds exactly like a new piece of gear that hasn't broken in yet. Give yourself some time for the capacitors to break in, then you'll have a baseline sound from which to compare different tube choices.
Congratulations on all the new gear. I'm happy for you that it's changing how you listen to and enjoy music.
I think you're right about break in. The Modwright has improved a lot since I first got it. I probably have about 50 hours on it now.
-
As noted earlier, my Blackgates took 200 hrs almost to the hour. He uses teflon-coated Sonicaps usually, and they're about 150-200. Your 500 seems high, but our point is the same....50 ain't nearly there! Don't change anything in the signal path until you hear your Modwright broken in. It doesn't sound at all like it will....at all!
-
As noted earlier, my Blackgates took 200 hrs almost to the hour. He uses teflon-coated Sonicaps usually, and they're about 150-200. Your 500 seems high, but our point is the same....50 ain't nearly there! Don't change anything in the signal path until you hear your Modwright broken in. It doesn't sound at all like it will....at all!
That's great news because it sounds great now.
My D-200's will be delivered today, Volex power cables tomorrow, and Reality Cables speaker cables and IC's next week.
-
Pugs,
I have currently in my system the Odyssey mono extremes the Modwright Pre, Symphonic Line CDP and Loreleis speakers. The sound is great and I do concur you have to let the Modwright break in. I have approx 500 hrs on this pre and it really is a sound product. I do agree with you about the Tempest. Things in my opinion were much better with a tubed pre in the mix. This is why I feel Klaus has put into production his tubed preamp called the Candela. I have heard it, it is not bad at all. I am just tired of changing things around. For now I will keep everything the way it is. I just want to sit back and enjoy the music.... Although I may go to an all tubed integrated amp. Oh! will the madness ever end!!
-
My D-200's will be delivered today, Volex power cables tomorrow, and Reality Cables speaker cables and IC's next week.
Wow,it's great to be you. :D
Have fun!
I'm considering either the D-100 or D-200 along with perhaps three other amplifiers. It will be good to hear your listening impressions as I'm undecided on the amp upgrade right now.
-
As noted earlier, my Blackgates took 200 hrs almost to the hour. He uses teflon-coated Sonicaps usually, and they're about 150-200. Your 500 seems high, but our point is the same....50 ain't nearly there! Don't change anything in the signal path until you hear your Modwright broken in. It doesn't sound at all like it will....at all!
Yup, I thought 500 was high, too, but with 400 hours on the Modwright I was ready to sell it. Somewhere close to 500 hours the sound opened up, smoothed out and became much more organic. The change was not subtle. Hopefully my experience was an anomoly.
The great thing about the Modwright/CI Audio combo is that the components can be left on 24/7.
If I leave the preamp on 24/7, won't it wear out the tubes quickly? I have never owned tube gear before so I have some learning to do.
-
Pugs,
I have currently in my system the Odyssey mono extremes the Modwright Pre, Symphonic Line CDP and Loreleis speakers. The sound is great and I do concur you have to let the Modwright break in. I have approx 500 hrs on this pre and it really is a sound product. I do agree with you about the Tempest. Things in my opinion were much better with a tubed pre in the mix. This is why I feel Klaus has put into production his tubed preamp called the Candela. I have heard it, it is not bad at all. I am just tired of changing things around. For now I will keep everything the way it is. I just want to sit back and enjoy the music.... Although I may go to an all tubed integrated amp. Oh! will the madness ever end!!
Yeah, it's too bad I didn't have a chance to hear the Extreme Monos with the Modwright. It would have been nice to compare them to the D-200's
-
I think you're right about break in. The Modwright has improved a lot since I first got it. I probably have about 50 hours on it now.
It won't come into its own until 300 hours. 500 if it has Blackgate caps. Just keep it on 24/7.
I opted for the Bybees in the AC line, but did not upgrade to Blackgates. I bought my unit from Dan as a demo model but it didn't have many hours on it. It is the newest version with new relays and I beleive some tweaking of the grounding scheme, whatever that means.
-
The name of the phenomenon escapes me, but if you're leaving preamp tubes on 24/7 you need to feed them an input signal! Personally, the chances of lightning storms, voltage spikes etc. hitting while tube equipment is unattended is just too high to justify leaving them on.
-
I presume it would only pertain to input tubes, but I'll try to find the thread. It was at least 8-10 months ago and on another site. I think I can contact the designer/author... sorry, but I'm off to work for now.
-
I received the D-200's about 5 days ago and have had some time to listen to them. I ordered three to power the front three channels of my HT, but one was DOA. It is currently being shipped back to Dusty for him to check out. When I first fired them up in the 2 channel system, they were very impressive. Notes were jumping out like I have never heard before. The sound was very clean and punchy. I was playing them at pretty low volume since it was about 1:00 AM. It wasn't until yesterday that I had a chance to play them loud. One problem - they didn't get very loud.
I had concerns with the gain of the Modwright when using my B&K. With the D-200's it seems that they don't go as loud as the B&K. With the volume of my Modwright all the way up at 11, I am only getting max SPL's of approximately 90db. I never measured the SPL's while using the B&K, but I think it was louder. The B&K distorted before turning the Modwright up to 11 so I never really tested it. I need to find out if the Modwright or the D-200's are the problem. I don't think I should need the higher gain version of the D-200's.
When listening to the D-200's at normal listening volume (~80-85db) they sound clean and punchy like I stated above, but now there is a little harshness like I was experiencing before with the Tempest and Mono Extremes. I am not getting the bass and fullness that I want. I have tried both Volex and Groneberg power cords, and so far I like the Gronebergs. They are a little more warm and smooth. The Volex cords only have about 15 hours on them so maybe that's part of the problem.
I am a concerned that the D-200's are not for me. I am trying to be calm and patient, but after sinking all of that money into my system, I expect more. Also, I'm also not sure if the Salk's are really for me. I think they are just too revealing, and just a bit thin and bright for me. I should also state that I have been using the Salks with the contour switch on. With the swith on, the balance shifts a little lower and allows me to get a little more bass and warmth. With the switch off, the highs are too prevelent and become distracting. The Salks sounded best with the B&K/Modwright combo.
I am just going to leave my sytem running 24/7 for a while. I'll see how everything sounds when I get my Reality Cables, but if things don't improve much, I might have to eat the restocking fee and return the D-200's. If I do return them, I think I'm just going to try a multi channel B&K Reference amplifier since I seem to like smooth warmth more than detail and clarity. The Modwright is not going anywhere. I love it.
I just don't get it. I have equipment that should produce incredible sound, but it's just alright. It's times like this that I just want to sell everything off (except the Modwright), buy less expensive average Joe name brands and stop spending so much money. I love music. It has always been a big part of my life, but trying to find that perfect sound does not seem atainable without spending a rediculous amount of money - which I already have.
To be continued...
-
Too bad you didn't have the opportunity to try the Modwright with the Odyssey Monos, with everything else the same. I'd think this would have been a killer combo, yet many people love the Modwright/D200 combo, too.
Was the SWL9.0SE purchased used or new?
Hang in there and see what Dusty has to say. If the D200s have a problem, he'll make it right.
I purchased the Modwright from Dan as a demo unit. He spent a lot of time on it prior to shipping making sure it was perfect.
I think the Mono Extremes would have been very nice with the Modwright. It's probably a good thing I didn't hear the combo, because there was no way I could keep them due to their size. My room looked like crap when I had them.
-
Just got of the phone with Dusty. Like Tvad4, he recommended I try a different source. I hooked up a cheap panasonic 5 disc changer, and what do you know, I have volume. 12:00 on the Modwright is now pretty loud. Now I need to find out what is wrong with my Squeezebox. I have the new analog mods which is supposed to preserve the 2.1Vrms output. Any ideas?
-
Please disregard everything I have said about the D-200's so far. :oops:. I have been using Slimserver firmware 15 for my Squeezebox. I switched to firmware 48 and volume levels are normal again. I am able to blow my eardrums out now! I switched the firmware back to version 15, and I still have high volume levels.
I think what happened is that I used the preamp attenuation feature on Slimserver when I was running the Squeezebox straight to my my B&K while I was waiting to receive the Modwright. I turned it off when I received the Modwright, but I don't think it took affect for some reason. Now the music is loud when the volume on the Modwright is around 12:00.
Now I seem to have more bass and fullness. I am not ready to evaluate the D-200's yet, but things sound better.
-
Connect one decent cd player like the rega planet or jupiter to your pre-amp with a good interconnect and see how it sounds. Squeezebox ! jeez !
-
Connect one decent cd player like the rega planet or jupiter to your pre-amp with a good interconnect and see how it sounds. Squeezebox ! jeez !
The Planet or Jupiter is not anywhere close to the quality of a modified squeezebox!
I would put my Bolder Cable modified SB2 + Bolder Cable Ultimate PS against almost ANY digital front end out there based on my experience and some direct comparisons.
George
-
I thought I would throw in my two cents. I have used the SWL9.0se with two class D amps; PS Audio HCA-2 and Bel Canto eVo2 gen II with really impressive results. Source is Jolida JD100A with Amperex Bugle Boy tubes and PBN Audio Montana SP III speakers and Nordost Blue Heavens all around. I prefer the Bel Canto eVo2 amp to the HCA-2 because the transients are more defined and sound more organic, yet detailed. As always in this hobby I wonder what another amp, such as the D-200 would sound like. For now though, I am quite happy with the system and more than pleased with the swl9.0se and Dan's second to none customer service/support.
-
Connect one decent cd player like the rega planet or jupiter to your pre-amp with a good interconnect and see how it sounds. Squeezebox ! jeez !
The Planet or Jupiter is not anywhere close to the quality of a modified squeezebox!
I would put my Bolder Cable modified SB2 + Bolder Cable Ultimate PS against almost ANY digital front end out there based on my experience and some direct comparisons.
George
No intention to HiJack Thread. Can you explain and or give me the specifics on how this whole setup works. I have considered for sometime but can not profess to be computer savy... :dunno: Can also PM Thanks
-
Please disregard everything I have said about the D-200's so far. :oops:. I have been using Slimserver firmware 15 for my Squeezebox. I switched to firmware 48 and volume levels are normal again. I am able to blow my eardrums out now! I switched the firmware back to version 15, and I still have high volume levels.
I think what happened is that I used the preamp attenuation feature on Slimserver when I was running the Squeezebox straight to my my B&K while I was waiting to receive the Modwright. I turned it off when I received the Modwright, but I don't think it took affect for some reason. Now the music is loud when the volume on the Modwright is around 12:00.
Now I seem to have more bass and fullness. I am not ready to evaluate the D-200's yet, but things sound better.
Pugs, that's interesting. I read previously that although the pre-amp attenuation setting was available in firmware 15, it didn't actually work until later firmware versions. You seem to have it working in 15?
BTW, Zybar is right ... it takes a very high-end digital source to match a well modified SqueezeBox and PS.