PMC Speakers vs B&W Speakers

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #40 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 07:35 pm »

Yes, lumpy bass is my impression of most B&Ws, and ultimately why I got rid of my 805s. The most accurate B&W bass in my experience came from the 801 and the second cheapest in the line - I forget the model number - 604?.

I bought my 805s to serve as studio monitors - after all, if they're good enough for Abbey Road..., but I couldn't get enough information about the bass by listening to them (like Grado headphones!) - it was nice and juicy and fun, but it had too much of its own character, so they had to go.

predrag · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 08:52 pm »

Quote from: mvwhiting_83 on 29 Jan 2009, 06:42 pm

I've compared the OB1i's to the 802, 803S, and 803D.... Like someone said previously, the bass performance on pretty much all of the B&W's I have heard (excluding their bookshelf speakers) is lumpy and lacks any remnant of definition for anything below 380hz. I've heard them with the McIntosh MC 402 and later a Bryston 4B. While the OB1i wasn't as large as the B&W's and couldn't handle all 400 watts the Mac had to give.... It definitely retained a more honest and balanced sound, where the 800's all sounded loud and beligerent... But some people just really like loud speakers.

The PB1i >>> The OB1i. When Peter designs his speakers he really likes to get a sense of what they are capble of handling. So he was clipping a 14B.... Without a whimper from the PB1i I think red is his favorite color aa! So the PB1i against any B&W with 7B's will be black and white.

Hello Ian!

What do you mean by that?
I could never bring my 4B SST C even near clipping!
It was waaay tooooo loud. Finally why should I do that?
What are these people doing when they bring such a beast to clipping levels?
Is it still audiophile terrain?
Limits of OB1 are easy to reach even with B100.
PB1 haven`t heard yet but doubling the bass drivers reminds me of B&W!
Anyway I agree with your statements about B&W.
What they are clearly better than PMC is advertising!

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 09:31 pm »

I mean that Peter likes to throw as much power as he can at to know what they are capable of.... Clearly not for for pure listening enjoyment... I mean you wouldn't drive a Porsche 911 GT S Turbo at 190 mph all the time? But you would just to see what the thing was made of.

KeithA · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 10:27 pm »

Quote from: mvwhiting_83 on 29 Jan 2009, 09:31 pm

I mean that Peter likes to throw as much power as he can at to know what they are capable of.... Clearly not for for pure listening enjoyment... I mean you wouldn't drive a Porsche 911 GT S Turbo at 190 mph all the time? But you would just to see what the thing was made of.

Alright, I've toyed with the idea of a new set of speakers in the last year, but bought a bunch of other stuff instead. However, if the right pair comes along I'd bite. I went down the road of Thiels in mid-2008 but didn't actually buy them for the main reason of not being able to demo them. I may have been able to fly to Montreal or Toronto to try a pair....but that's not practical. I've been to the PMC website and couldn't find the info. So, I have 2 questions:

(i) Do you have any audio mag reviews of the PB1i; and
(ii) Where can a set be demoed in Eastern Canada

Keith

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #44 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 01:45 am »

No mag reviews of the PB1i as of yet... I don't think the PB1i will an exception to the killer reviews that the rest of the i-series has received. Let me see what can find out about a demo for you... What is your specific location?

KeithA · « **Reply #45 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 02:41 am »

Quote from: mvwhiting_83 on 30 Jan 2009, 01:45 am

No mag reviews of the PB1i as of yet... I don't think the PB1i will an exception to the killer reviews that the rest of the i-series has received. Let me see what can find out about a demo for you... What is your specific location?

I am in St. John's, NL. However, I ceratinly wouldn't expect dealer reps in this province. That's why I suggested Eastern Canada.....but it's way Eastern

Keith

Bassmann · « **Reply #46 on:** 1 Feb 2009, 06:27 pm »

I emailed PMC with regards to getting MORE BASS from my OB1's about a year or so ago.

I asked them whether its possible to buy separately and install the flat Nomex woofer from the AML1 into the OB1 to increase spl as they are very similar if not the same driver size. (I asked this and suggested its because i think the midrange and treble slightly dominates the sound and is more capable of spl than the bass driver. I took the bass driver out once to have a look and discovered it to have a very weedy magnet and despite the look of it from the front, it does not have a wide voice coil like the dynaudio drivers do. Its actually quite surprising then how much bass you do get from these speakers, they just lack a smidgen of weight and punch (aka slam) on pedal drums for my taste, which I'm sure a heavy duty bass driver would sort out despite the cabinet size. Though theirs nothing wrong with them at all and they make a very nice sound and are the best and most expensive speakers I've owned to date) I'm no speaker designer and just a consumer like everybody else. its just my opinion thats all.

I also suggested about the OB1's having two bass drivers to have the desired effect as well, kinda like having a TLE1 built in. They responded by saying that if I want more BASS then I should buy the TLE1!! (was expecting that sort of response, but at least they did reply as they always have done to my questions)

I wonder though now about the name of this new model PB1i, as my initials are PB (coincidence? did i have an impact on someone influential?)

What does the name stand for mvwhiting_83?

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #47 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 07:37 pm »

Quote from: Bassmann on 1 Feb 2009, 06:27 pm

I emailed PMC with regards to getting MORE BASS from my OB1's about a year or so ago.

I asked them whether its possible to buy separately and install the flat Nomex woofer from the AML1 into the OB1 to increase spl as they are very similar if not the same driver size. (I asked this and suggested its because i think the midrange and treble slightly dominates the sound and is more capable of spl than the bass driver. I took the bass driver out once to have a look and discovered it to have a very weedy magnet and despite the look of it from the front, it does not have a wide voice coil like the dynaudio drivers do. Its actually quite surprising then how much bass you do get from these speakers, they just lack a smidgen of weight and punch (aka slam) on pedal drums for my taste, which I'm sure a heavy duty bass driver would sort out despite the cabinet size. Though theirs nothing wrong with them at all and they make a very nice sound and are the best and most expensive speakers I've owned to date) I'm no speaker designer and just a consumer like everybody else. its just my opinion thats all.

I also suggested about the OB1's having two bass drivers to have the desired effect as well, kinda like having a TLE1 built in. They responded by saying that if I want more BASS then I should buy the TLE1!! (was expecting that sort of response, but at least they did reply as they always have done to my questions)

I wonder though now about the name of this new model PB1i, as my initials are PB (coincidence? did i have an impact on someone influential?)

What does the name stand for mvwhiting_83?

I actually tried to install a 6.5" Piston Driver into an OB1i here at the shop one night... - Two things - First thing, the driver is not cheap, and it would almost certainly drive the speaker into a whole new price category that we were trying to stay under. Second, it didn't fit! The surrounding was maybe a 1/16" too big, and about 3/4" too deep. I was a little saddened by that fact... I personally would have loved to see a Piston Driver on there. I love the character of the pistons, I think it would have given the OB1i more muscle to flex, but it would have come at a very hefty premium.

With the names of our speakers, they can mean anything you want them to. For me the "PB" stands for Performance Box. The "GB" is the Girly Box, because it's cute, etc... With the PB1i we have achieved the bass performance that I think you are looking for. The bass drivers (4 of them in a stereo pair!) in the PB1i are capable of higher SPL and a lower frequency response. Something along the same line as adding a TLE1 to your setup. Maybe it is coincidence, but what if it isn't?

"mvwhiting_83" is this webhandle that I use for everything... Names, Birthyear, Street that I was born on...

Ian

Bassmann · « **Reply #48 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 07:53 pm »

Hi Ian

Thanks for the response to my comments

Is their any vacancy's going at PMC? - I've got GOOD VISION + WISDOM and would be an asset to the company.

How much do the PB1i retail for here in Britain?

Regards

P.S - if its not coincidence then I would like some Royalties please

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #49 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 08:53 pm »

There is a section for vacancies on the website. There isn't anything available right now, but if you check periodically you may find something at some point. Prices In GBP? I'm not too sure, as I'm here in America so my prices are in USD.

Bassmann · « **Reply #50 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 09:19 pm »

O.K thanks Ian.

I'm gonna shut-up now

RonCH · « **Reply #51 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 10:34 pm »

Quote from: Bassmann on 2 Feb 2009, 07:53 pm

Hi Ian

Thanks for the response to my comments

Is their any vacancy's going at PMC? - I've got GOOD VISION + WISDOM and would be an asset to the company.

How much do the PB1i retail for here in Britain?

Regards

P.S - if its not coincidence then I would like some Royalties please

I understand the price in the UK will be around GBP 5500.

KeithA · « **Reply #52 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 10:38 pm »

Quote from: RonCH on 2 Feb 2009, 10:34 pm

Quote from: Bassmann on 2 Feb 2009, 07:53 pm
Hi Ian

Thanks for the response to my comments

Is their any vacancy's going at PMC? - I've got GOOD VISION + WISDOM and would be an asset to the company.

How much do the PB1i retail for here in Britain?

Regards

P.S - if its not coincidence then I would like some Royalties please

I understand the price in the UK will be around GBP 5500.

http://www.progressive-av.com/pricelists/PMC.pdf

Bassmann · « **Reply #53 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 10:42 pm »

Thanks Ron, and Keith, for the link

Did they get the numbers wrong?

Its time for me to get out of here, like a rat up a drain pipe !!!

Before i do, one more thing - i think if i were to spend that much, i would buy the OB1i and the TLE1 combination instead of the PB1i, because you can fine tune the bass parameters better then, plus you'd be buying a Bryston designed amplifier as well aa

kiko · « **Reply #54 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 02:04 pm »

and what about PMC vs ProAc?
Is there someone who had the chance to compare OB1i, PB1i or EB1i loudspeakers with a pair of D38?
Which are the most evident differencies?

95Dyna · « **Reply #55 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 03:28 pm »

Quote from: KeithA on 2 Feb 2009, 10:38 pm

Quote from: RonCH on 2 Feb 2009, 10:34 pm
Quote from: Bassmann on 2 Feb 2009, 07:53 pm
Hi Ian

Thanks for the response to my comments

Is their any vacancy's going at PMC? - I've got GOOD VISION + WISDOM and would be an asset to the company.

How much do the PB1i retail for here in Britain?

Regards

P.S - if its not coincidence then I would like some Royalties please

I understand the price in the UK will be around GBP 5500.

http://www.progressive-av.com/pricelists/PMC.pdf

Wow. Here in the colonies the IB2 retails for $15,000.00 or about 9,400 pounds (sorry, I don't have the symbol on my keyboard). There must be a 25% import tariff on the PMCs which goes a long way towards explaining the bellyaching about the escalating prices of the PMC line in the US. The weaker USD against the pound and euro don't help the value equation of European speakers over here either.

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #56 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 06:54 pm »

Quote from: kiko on 12 Feb 2009, 02:04 pm

and what about PMC vs ProAc?
Is there someone who had the chance to compare OB1i, PB1i or EB1i loudspeakers with a pair of D38?
Which are the most evident differencies?

PMC vs ProAc?... I think we can compare favorably... Most people tend to find the bass response of PMC a bit quicker, deeper, and more true to the source material, which is usually what people are looking for when they start looking at our brand. For the higher end models that you listed, the power handling (the PB & EB specifically) is pretty high while maintaing a "reference" like quality. With dome midranges and the PMC/SEAS tweeter, the resolution at which you listen puts the "hi" in hifi

.

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #57 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 07:04 pm »

Why do you think Dolby chose PMC?

vegasdave · « **Reply #58 on:** 13 Feb 2009, 04:02 am »

How does the EB1i compare to the big Tannoys (Yorkminster, Canterbury, and Westminster?)

mvwhiting_83 · « **Reply #59 on:** 13 Feb 2009, 07:54 pm »

I haven't had the chance to hear many of those models from Prestige series. I have heard some of their lower end and some of their studio monitors. The (dual) concentric driver tech is an interesting one though. I personally am not too keen on singular driver configurations. It's an interesting comparison between their modern tech and our classic 3 way design. The biggest glaring difference, while there are many, is our midrange. The reason we chose to utilize dome midranges for the three way design is because of the resolution and imaging yield. I think it is widely excepted that a well executed dome midrange can offer an extremely satisfying playback experience(maybe more so than cones? - anyone?). That said they can be a bit difficult to manufacture, and must be held to a very critical spec, as distorion can creep in along the way. Our crossover design with OB1i, PB1i, and EB1i is x'ed at 380 & 3.8k @ -24db/oct. So it is a pretty steep curve that allows the drive units to operate more uniformly efficient - combined with the ATL we push their performance level especially with the LF a bit higher. Any circle members who are familiar with the Piston-Nomex driver know that this driver just oozes muscle just by looking at it.

These Tannoy appear to be very sensitive, which would explain their moderate power rating (Prestige is at 97-99 db 1w @ 1m is pretty high, the EB1i is @ 89db)... The EB1i comparatively can reach a good bit deeper in the lower frequency register - down to 19hz. I would say that you could safely power the EB1i with about 500watts (14B or 7B's anyone?)... Although a good a good bit of fun was had with Mac 1.2kwatt in the red aa.

So between the two differences appear to be vast, so surely they will offer entirely different sounds... It just depends on the sound that you are after.

Also, I thought our i-series was pretty British looking, the Prestige series takes the Anglo-Monitor-aesthetic to a whole new level