[lacro]

 Since I finished my X-LS Encores over a year ago I have been driving them with a Marantz NR1403 50 watt receiver in my little Man Cave. The warm sounding Marantz paired with the stock (for now) Encores in my small listening space has always sounded quite good.

 I  have recently been playing around with low power class D amp boards, especially the new generation (TPA3110/TPA3116)
which sound so much better than any T-Amp I have heard. With a few mods these low power boards produce amazing sound quality. My main focus has been using these modded boards to drive cheap speakers for desktop nearfield duty, and garage/basement set-ups.

 However, I decided to try my little TPA3110D2 amp in my main system driving my Encores. This little board puts out 8 watts at best. WOW!! I am blown away... The Encores never sounded so good! I had no idea these speakers were this good!!!. I can't wait to do the crossover upgrades.

 The little amp is a perfect match for these speakers, much, much better sounding than my receiver!. I am only running about 40-50% volume. It's amazing how deep the speakers will go without a sub, and Danny has always said the Encore tweeter was a good one, now I know why Highs, especially female voices are so clear/clean sounding

 I gave a listen to this amazing Classic(al) Rock piece at high listening levels, and it was just mesmerizing listening to the Encores cranked! If you haven't already seen/heard this, check it out. It's a workout for speakers: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83896505/

Here's the little amp that is currently driving the Encores with amazing sound quality. In this photo It's being used for desktop duty with a 12V battery for power. I am currently using a 12V PS.




In conclusion: If your on the fence wondering whether these budget kits from Danny are worth building, let me say this...YES!
Consider the upgrades at the time of purchase as doing it later means taking the speakers apart which I will be doing soon Also, you don't need high end electronics to get superb sound from the X-LS Encores.

Lacro...

[Ron]

  You are absolutely correct Lacro about the X-LS Encores. Even with the stock crossovers they sound very open, smooth and transparent. Vocals sound very clean and natural. Bass response in particular is amazing. In small to average size listening rooms you don't even need a subwoofer on most music. With the performance upgrades
( Sonicaps, Mills resistors, No-Rez) it takes the performance up to a whole new level. For anyone going with the performance upgrades, I recommend installing a .1 uf Gen II Sonicap bypass capacitor on the woofer 12.0 uf  low pass capacitor for improved bass performance. Also, I recommend installing about 1 ounce of Acousti-Stuf in the back of the cabinet which provides deeper, tighter bass and cleaner midrange performance.

 Glad that your TPA3110D2 amp works very well with your X-LS Encores. Thanks for posting your comments about the X-LS Encores.

Ron

[vlad335]

I wholeheartedly agree! Finished the X-ls Encores and wasn't really prepared for what I was going to hear. (Well I shouldn't say finished as these speakers are bare MDF and the corners are not even rounded!) Built with stock parts with the exception of a couple pieces of Sonic Barrier I had here, they are all stock. I have them in my computer set up with a Dayton DTA-120 amp and a DIY sub and these babies are smooth and clear. I have had quite a few speakers in this setup and these leave every one in the dust.

Ordered some sonicaps from Danny and I will add these when I get back to working on the cabinets. (Hard for me to take these back out of circulation.) I recapped some speakers with Sonicaps before and know what they can do. Can't wait to hear them afterward!

Lacro, question about the TPA3110 amp. I see you obviously upgraded the caps. I just ordered this amp from PE and would like to ask about your upgrades. Obviously upgraded the two caps with panny's, what values?

See you have a cap across the power input as well. What cap? Is this the same concept at work? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120889.0

[Danny Richie]

I wholeheartedly agree! Finished the X-ls Encores and wasn't really prepared for what I was going to hear. (Well I shouldn't say finished as these speakers are bare MDF and the corners are not even rounded!) Built with stock parts with the exception of a couple pieces of Sonic Barrier I had here, they are all stock. I have them in my computer set up with a Dayton DTA-120 amp and a DIY sub and these babies are smooth and clear. I have had quite a few speakers in this setup and these leave every one in the dust.

Ordered some sonicaps from Danny and I will add these when I get back to working on the cabinets. (Hard for me to take these back out of circulation.) I recapped some speakers with Sonicaps before and know what they can do. Can't wait to hear them afterward!

Lacro, question about the TPA3110 amp. I see you obviously upgraded the caps. I just ordered this amp from PE and would like to ask about your upgrades. Obviously upgraded the two caps with panny's, what values?

See you have a cap across the power input as well. What cap? Is this the same concept at work? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120889.0

If the Sonic Barrier is the stuff from Parts Express with the suspended barrier layer in between two layers of foam then you still have some improvements ahead of you still. The suspended layer actually mass loads the woofer as pressures in the box change and it tends to muddy up the mid-range quite a bit. If you pull it out and just use common fiberglass insulation then you'll notice a nice improvement in the mid-range.

Also, since the Sonic Barrier has no damping layer, it really does nothing for resonance control either. It is actually a product with zero beneficial gain, only a negative one.

For a really nice improvement line the cabinets with No Rez. 

[Folsom]

Well I use a 3110 now but will have 3116 shortly. I'm using AC though, and prefer it. In fact if you aren't blown away by the amps ability comparing to things that cost thousands of dollars, you got room for improvement. Frankly the 3110 powered right has better timbre, better harmonics, than ampss costing $3k+.

You'll never know though if your power and speaker wires aren't up to snuff.

[lacro]

Lacro, question about the TPA3110 amp. I see you obviously upgraded the caps. I just ordered this amp from PE and would like to ask about your upgrades. Obviously upgraded the two caps with panny's, what values?

See you have a cap across the power input as well. What cap? Is this the same concept at work? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120889.0

PM sent...

For more info about these amps see this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122011.0

[Captainhemo]

For a really nice improvement line the cabinets with No Rez.

+1, spend the $40 on a sheet of No- Rez.  It's easy to work with and it  work 
I've done the "home made no-rz" (thick vinyl & 1" OCF)  and  also used the  real deal, believe me, the real No-rez is  ALOT easier to work with

-jay

[vlad335]

The suspended layer actually mass loads the woofer as pressures in the box change and it tends to muddy up the mid-range quite a bit. If you pull it out and just use common fiberglass insulation then you'll notice a nice improvement in the mid-range.

Danny,

Sorry, I admit my first thought to your post was horsesh*t! You sell No Rez... ect.

However, If I didn't hear some of this very thing happening I may not have gotten past that thought. ( Your comment about the pressures building in the cab really got me thinking) I had been noticing these speakers sound the best after being off for awhile and progressively get more congested with continued listening. This was pretty depressing and I was actually attributing this to my amp.

OK... I did an experiment tonight. I pulled the Sonic Barrier out and lined the walls loosely with regular fiberglass insulation. I played them for awhile and Let me say you are absolutely correct! These speakers sounded very different from the start, surprisingly so. First, they are not as thick in the low mids and therefore seem not as loud. However they have more clarity down lower and there is more separation between instruments. Playing some tunes for awhile I noted no reappearance of the slight muddiness and shouty sound that plagued me before.

Thank you for this recommendation. Due to alot of unforeseen things happening recently I can't afford No Rez right now but will pick up some as soon as I can.

[Danny Richie]

Danny,

Sorry, I admit my first thought to your post was horsesh*t! You sell No Rez... ect.

However, If I didn't hear some of this very thing happening I may not have gotten past that thought. ( Your comment about the pressures building in the cab really got me thinking) I had been noticing these speakers sound the best after being off for awhile and progressively get more congested with continued listening. This was pretty depressing and I was actually attributing this to my amp.

OK... I did an experiment tonight. I pulled the Sonic Barrier out and lined the walls loosely with regular fiberglass insulation. I played them for awhile and Let me say you are absolutely correct! These speakers sounded very different from the start, surprisingly so. First, they are not as thick in the low mids and therefore seem not as loud. However they have more clarity down lower and there is more separation between instruments. Playing some tunes for awhile I noted no reappearance of the slight muddiness and shouty sound that plagued me before.

Thank you for this recommendation. Due to alot of unforeseen things happening recently I can't afford No Rez right now but will pick up some as soon as I can.

Thank you for giving that a shot and really listening. I have been trying to tell people about the problems with the Sonic Barrier for a long time now, but I am afraid many will just think I am trying to sell No Rez.

Please share you findings anytime it is fit for any discussion regarding these products.

Thanks!

[Folsom]

I'm not sure it matters, PE is a last resort because their shipping is high, and their website designer is a giant asshole. Few websites are more difficult to deal with that sell parts of any kind.

Danny on the other hand, well if he has what you want expect great service. And his website despite being simple and maybe in need of a little refinement, is still massively more navigable.

[vlad335]

Thank you for giving that a shot and really listening. I have been trying to tell people about the problems with the Sonic Barrier for a long time now, but I am afraid many will just think I am trying to sell No Rez.

I apologize for reflexively thinking that it was a sales pitch. Just being honest that it was my first thought. There is unfortunately alot of that type of thing going on with vendors who frequent online message boards ( Especially in audio) but i have absolutely no reason to lump you in that group. I have seen you recommend the low cost alternatives and you have been very straight forward with me.

Please share you findings anytime it is fit for any discussion regarding these products.

Thanks!

Yes I will as I have heard it with my own ears. My regret is I have been buying this crap damping material. I have recapped speakers and added this at the same time not realizing that it was a detrimental element and they could have been so much better.  No more!

As you well know it is hard to change minds in this hobby. Sonic barrier really appears to be quality stuff and seems like it would make a difference. (It does, a bad one.) I read posts over on PE's message board and I am sometimes flabbergasted by some statements over there. A great example is with crossover capacitors. There is a consensus that they make no difference and even Zaph states NPE's are just fine.

Huh? Really?  Many of these posters design speakers and some are highly regarded and they can't hear a difference?

[vlad335]

One more question. Regarding the fiberglass in my speakers now since i am stuck with it for the time being, is it bad healthwise with these being ported? Can I put some covering over the port to keep the glass shards from flying out?

Thinking of some of the wife's nylons with rubber bands over the inner opening.

[S Clark]

A bit of pantyhose over the port should have little effect on the response of the speaker.  You can also pull the woofer and spray some hairspray on the fiberglass. It should help stabilize the outer fibers without really impacting the way it slows the back wave.

[Folsom]

PE is more DIY weekend warrior style, less audiophile.

Danny know's a frequency plot doesn't tell you everything, and has or uses the equipment to differentiate what's going on; his stuff is revealing enough. He also is the kind of skeptic I like, he tries stuff. Perhaps I don't always agree, but I appreciate the stoic approach. I haven't seen too many capacitor nay-sayers confess to experimenting. But I know first hand what dropping in $200 worth compared to stock $40 worth can do; it's obvious.

In short I don't even know how to trust speaker projects or ideas from PE connections. They speak a different more primitive language in their DIY promoted speaker projects. They don't come close to covering the spectrum say EnjoyTheMusic does in reviews.

[vlad335]

Danny know's a frequency plot doesn't tell you everything, and has or uses the equipment to differentiate what's going on; his stuff is revealing enough. He also is the kind of skeptic I like, he tries stuff. Perhaps I don't always agree, but I appreciate the stoic approach. I haven't seen too many capacitor nay-sayers confess to experimenting. But I know first hand what dropping in $200 worth compared to stock $40 worth can do; it's obvious.

Thats it I think! I do the same and can appreciate that. I really don't think the cap detractors even begin to swap back and forth. just regurgitate what they want to be true, that you don't have to spend but the bare minimum on crossover parts.

Danny's description of what Sonic Barrier does negatively inside a speaker is spot on. I experienced it myself firsthand. His credibilty IMO is unassailable.

Regarding crossover capacitors I can clearly hear a difference with how they effect a loudspeakers presentation, not so much in the woofers path to shunt but its still there. Dramatic differences in tweeter circuits are very obvious though.

A personal example is with a pair of outdoor speakers I recapped. They sounded decent beforehand but I can't seem to leave well enough alone. The crossover circuit inside was very basic. An inductor on the woofer and cap and resistor on the tweeter. ( Makes any changes more profound) Decided to replace the resistor and cap with the cap being one of the cheap red Audyn's that PE sells. sounded better than the NPE but there was something wrong as well, like one of the speakers was out of phase or something. Rechecked my wiring and that was not the case. Didn't like the upgrade at all.  BTW, I have an LCR meter and the Audyn's measure extremely well. Better than any Dayton yellow end cap I have tried so they are not out of spec. Just introduced something that I can't put into words but know I didn't like.
Next I splurged on a pair of Sonicaps and Wow! There it is! Detail went off the charts and these speakers were smooth as well. There was none of the weird closed in, tunnel effect I heard before. Just the music as it was recorded.

I am sure there are caps that sound better than the Sonicap but probably cost in the $40-60 range which isn't in the cards for me. I like what I hear from Sonicaps anyway and most likely the law of diminishing returns will come into play.

[HAL]

Danny has a pair of Behringer speakers that have switchable original and upgraded crossovers in to show the difference.  They are out there somewhere for folks to try.   

[jazyes]

If the Sonic Barrier is the stuff from Parts Express with the suspended barrier layer in between two layers of foam then you still have some improvements ahead of you still. The suspended layer actually mass loads the woofer as pressures in the box change and it tends to muddy up the mid-range quite a bit. If you pull it out and just use common fiberglass insulation then you'll notice a nice improvement in the mid-range.

Also, since the Sonic Barrier has no damping layer, it really does nothing for resonance control either. It is actually a product with zero beneficial gain, only a negative one.

For a really nice improvement line the cabinets with No Rez. 

Danny,
You saved me from disappointment and aggravation. I bought some S.B. a couple of months ago for a "resurrection" project that has been sidetracked by an X-LS Encore
build. Not a waste of $20 either, since the steel support in my garage needs a new bumper surround. Thanks. - John