[Vr3]

I am not as active on this forum as I am others like Club Polk --- so my respect here, probally is not as high as it is there, which is understood.

But to put aside this as an attack on Klaus, I've purchased 2 things from Klaus, Candela and a Khartago. I also tried to purchase some Mono Blocks - which, the keyword is try.

Here is the low down.

About 7 months ago, I called Klaus and said I was wondering if he would allow me to trade up to Stratos Extreme Mono Blocks -- he said sure, he would give me full credit... it would be several months. 2-3 months.

Two to three months is not a long time to wait for something such as the Mono Extremes, especially if you are receiving full credit for your other amp you have already purchased.

Two to three months pass, I call Klaus back. Klaus explains that they are built, but he is awaiting a shipment of power supplies. Just another month for the power supplies - which I remember would be in around the end of July.

Cool, Another month calls back, Just a few more weeks

Alright so eventually along the line, I just wait about a month, give him a ring -- and now we are discussing the possibility of a different amp - so now at this point, it sounds like there are no amps built??

Alright, so I forget exactly when, it was before October when Klaus left the country, I call and he says mine are with 5 others burning in to be shipped out and would go out before he left...

Cool -- Apparently Klaus leaves, I have no amps.

Its been roughly 5-6 months, I have no amps. I've been told I was going to receive amps, I did not receive amps.

So, plagued with a decision to buy a used set, not to mention at half price, but in the end not supporting Klaus. I make the decision to buy a set used. The gentleman made a promise to get them here by the end of the week last week, he actually became busy at work, but to keep his work over-nighted them to arrive Friday. Wow. So now I am sitting on some amps...

They are black vs. the silver I wanted - but the important part is the fact they are here. And they were here in a week of when I purchased them.

So I am not flaming Klaus and downing him, I am dissapointed.

I am also discouraged that one of my favorite brands can not keep up with the order demands of its customers. All this shows me is, if my amps/preamp, etc ever break - I will be left in the dark for MULTIPLE months waiting for a repair. And even then, could be waiting multiple months for parts...

I've recomended Klaus and Odyssey until I was blue in the fact on other forums. They are SPECTACULAR pieces of gear, and I will buy from Klaus again in the future. But the last time I conversed with Klaus was around 2 months ago. He has not called me ONCE to see if I still wants these amps - which is fine, it saves me from telling him I've already purchased some and that they are not needed.

However, it concerns me that he is willing to bypass a sale of that caliber and just blow it off.

I am concerned for the future of Odyssey Audio. I am concerned for the customers of Odyssey.

Something has to change, the website has to be updated so the loyal customers can show/recomend products to their friends that want to know more.

I recomended a Candela preamp to the guy that bought my Khartago from me --- he replied back simply... "So is the Candela a discontinued product, I don't see it on his website???" -- I simply said, well its actually his newest one, he just dosnt have it on his website.

Its embarressing and unprofessional when I have to point people in the direction of a Spanish website to get information on a product because the Main english hub dosnt offer anything. Or perhaps to Odyssey SG - which is a very good resource, but very outdated.

Im mad, Im frustrated, but I also want to see change so I recomend Klaus/Odyssey with confidence knowing if I send people his way, they will be taken care of and be satisfied.

I don't know how this will be taken, but Im trying to be constructive...

Things have to change, or I'm afraid the future of Odyssey may be at stake...

A concerned customer,
Trey

[BobC]

I hear ya.  Been there, done that.  But the way I see it, you gotta take the good with the bad with everything.

The good: absolutley killer equipment for the price (which is what I only really care about...trumps any schedule slip or quirks).  Ability to interact with an actual person who knows my name and tries very hard to keep me happy.

The bad: small company trying to keep up with the staggering demand for their products.  This means you're going to have to deal with back orders, etc.  You also may need to check in to discuss the status once in a while.

Compare this to any large firm (like say B&W, Rotel, Classe'...as an example...no real data here).  Sure you can order something and have it in a week or two.  BUT, I'd like to see you call them and ask for credit on used amps towards new ones or get an upgrade path, etc.

I agree that the web page is terrible.  Other complaint is the Candela remote.

Consider Odyssey, and many other small firms, the same way you would if you were building a house.  You can go to a large housing construction firm, pick out your cookie cutter floor plan, pay a lot, and get a really nice house on the timing you ask (pay) for.  Or, you can hire a small local firm that has a stellar reputation, doesn't need to spend a nickle on advertising (read poor web page) because the quality of his work and the vocal satisfied customers drum up plenty of business.  You just need to be prepared for the fact that he doesn't have the "bench strength" so schedule may slip when things get busy....and may actually want to take a vacation once in a while.  What is it?  There's cost, schedule and quality...and when things get busy you can only have 2....I'll take cost and quality thank you.   

You know...I'll only start to worry about Odyssey when their business actually does slow down...and Klaus and Alex are sitting around just waiting for the phone to ring.  But I bet their webpage would be nice 

My 0.02.

Bob

[Vr3]

Well,
You gotta understand - I was prepared to wait.

Infact, I waited roughly 6 months for these amps.

My problem was the constant, 2 more weeks man! 2 more weeks! oh yeah, 2 more weeks! Yep, just a few more weeks...

And the situation was always different...

Power supplies, burn in, different amps - nothing made sense. There seemed to be tons of excuses and no real bingo to it...

I was more than prepared to wait - but I was never given a real time to go by so I expected amps every 2 weeks and never received them. Kind of got old after a while...

Like I said, I'll buy from Odyssey again, and I'll continue to recomend them. But things have to change, and soon - he has ALOT of new products that came out recently...

And you cant depend on word of mouth to sell everything for you...

[Vr3]

The Candela rocks.

Precision soundstaging is where its at with that piece.

Built like a tank too ---

[Lkdog]

Pick up the phone and call Klaus.
If you have a problem talk to him directly.

I am guessing there is more to this story and you state you have not even talked to him
in two months.
This is not the place to resolve your problem.

I have never had a problem getting in contact with Klaus via phone and he has always been great to deal with and honored all time commitments.

[Vr3]

I wont directly reply to your post -

This thread was not started to solve a problem. There are no problems, I have no direct malice toward Klaus.

I have a concern for Odyssey as a company and as a fan...

If you cannot see that, I am sorry.

[Lkdog]

I wont directly reply to your post -

This thread was not started to solve a problem. There are no problems, I have no direct malice toward Klaus.

I have a concern for Odyssey as a company and as a fan...

If you cannot see that, I am sorry.

Right. I can tell your original post was made only with sincere concern for Klaus and Alex and their well being. 
You don't talk to them at all for two months to inquire about your order, yet come on here and claim you are a victim and he "blew you off" for months and they are "embarrassing and unprofessional". We can all feel the love.

Like I said-call the man.
I know Klaus well enough to know he will not get into this debate in public-usually to help others save face.
Good luck.

[Vr3]

Im sorry you feel that way.

I personally work retail...

It is my personal responsibility as a salesman to contact my customers when set backs, delays, or progress on their orders come my way. If I don't, they wouldn't come in the store and quietly discuss their concern for me or the store I work for.

They would blantantly demand their money back, make a huge fuss, say they will entertain all forms of competition, and slander the companies name at all cost...

It is not the customers responsibility. I have never ordered something from a company where I had to do the following...

1) Place order
2) Email company and request tracking number
   * No response
3) Check to see if there is a back order or a trouble in shipment
   * Tracking number sent, product on the way

Usually I place the order
They respond, thank me - tell me the wait to get the order out, 1 month ++, whenever

If there are any delays, they notify me - its simple. The customer has a right to be informed. Its just good business practice.

Now, my first two experiences with Klaus were extremely positive, actually blew me away. He was always ahead of schedule, fast, precise, very easy to contact.

But I've spoke to a few people, and my thoughts are not alone here.

Again, I'm sorry you feel the way you do. If I angered you, I did not mean to. I am not playing victim, Klaus does not have to respond to this thread.

But if anything does come of this thread, I hope the website gets updated. I have recomended the Candela and Khartago to countless people and get the same response each time...

Ah... well

[JLM]

I've never bought from Klaus for exactly these reasons.  I'm just too old to beg someone to take my money.  I can wait weeks/months.  But repeated delays over this much time, having to call repeatedly, plus the useless website display, I'm sorry to say, a lack of professionalism.  Not that Klaus isn't a great guy and offers super stuff at incredible prices.  And he's probably working too hard and too many hours.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how inefficient all this adds up to or start asking how long can it be sustained.  Unless Klaus can get the business side of the company together, it will go down, like so many other nice, well meaning small businessmen.  Other good vendors around AC don't have these issues, but their content value probably aren't as high either.

Klaus, it's your company and you can do what you want, JMO.

[bunky]

I own some of the best Gear that Odyssey Audio makes,but i did use the upgrade path from Khartago monos to mono extremes to extreme SE's.I recieved 100% full credit for my six month old Khartago monos towards the purchase of the mono extremes .What other audio manufacturer does this ? As for customer service i had a problem with one of the Scanspeak 8545 Midwoofers buzzing in one of my Lorelei's and posted it here at the Odyssey circle. the same day i recieved a pm from Klaus who was in Germany at the time.he had the boys in Indy ship me a brand new driver A.S.A.P. Klaus took care of me while he was in Europe on Vacation.who else would interupt their personal vacation to take care of a customer ? Odyssey is a very small manufacturer with only three employees including Klaus that hand builds gear to order one at a time.Odyssey will be in business for years to come.I have a feeling that Odyssey tube power amps are in the works . At least i hope so...thanks....WCW III

[MaxCast]

Vr3  this is a nice post that Klaus needs to see.  I can tell it is a post made from love, not spite.

I don't know if Klaus will appreciate it or not, but I do.  Thanks

I agree. 
This post needs to be taken as constructive criticism before a real bashing comes along.  And that's not fun for anyone.

[bunky]

Vr3  this is a nice post that Klaus needs to see.  I can tell it is a post made from love, not spite.

I don't know if Klaus will appreciate it or not, but I do.  Thanks

I agree Also,I consider Vr3 as a friend and i know him from the Club Polk forum where he heaps praise for Odyssey gear. thanks....WCW III

[djbnh]

Vr3,

Read your post and am at odds on what to say.

I guess I'll share what I know from my own experiences with Klaus, from: 1) initially purchasing a used Tempest off Agon and having it brought up to spec by Klaus by replacement with a new Tempest at no cost to me, 2) then purchasing a new cap-upgraded Stratos and some ICs / SCs, 3) to subsequently trading in the Stratos towards a pair of Mono Extremes. Each of the above transactions were conducted with professionalism and affability. Furthermore, Klaus provided to be readily accessible via phone as well as a font of knowledge for which I am still thankful.

I don't profess to know the ins and outs of both sides of the discussion regarding your personal transactions with Klaus, apart from what you have posted in your threads. I do know that Klaus was excellent with me in taking or returning phone calls, whether it was me calling to get a status update or asking advice about a possible non-Odyssey purchase, so my experience differs from what you've reported. From my experience, shipping was almost always prompt, and the time it wasn't there was a perfectly acceptable reason.

I hope and trust that you and Klaus will satisfactorily and amicably resolve whatever there is to resolve.


As for the website - for me this became a non-issue. Eduardo's MX site provides photos and (translatable) info, and with Klaus / Odyssey accessible by phone (I prefer the give-and-take dialog setting that phone provides) as well as forums to peruse, all my needs were / are met. Please don't take that to mean that other persons can't prefer a fuller website and make decisions based off of whether or not that preference is met. Regarding preference, I'd rather not have to $hip any of my none-too-light Odyssey gear back to Indy if any of it ever needs a check-up or maintenance, but that's a bullet I'll bite when / if it comes with concurrent relief that my gear will receive a professional servicing (then there's the possibility of upgrading to the SE level or whatever insane tweekster level Klaus is offering at that point, if my Extremes ever have to go back to IN  ). Also regarding preference, I initially and subsequently wanted to purchase audio gear that would provide a relatively high level of listening pleasure while leaving my wallet as intact as possible, a desire which Klaus and Odyssey ably met.

YMMV. Peace.

[Vr3]

Thanks guys --

Like I said, I'm not trying to beat Klaus up here...

I offered an experience as an example, and my concern.

I can only hope from here that it will be read with constructive thoughts...

 

[slow_down]

My problem was the constant, 2 more weeks man! 2 more weeks! oh yeah, 2 more weeks! Yep, just a few more weeks...

And the situation was always different...

Power supplies, burn in, different amps - nothing made sense. There seemed to be tons of excuses and no real bingo to it...

I was more than prepared to wait - but I was never given a real time to go by so I expected amps every 2 weeks and never received them. Kind of got old after a while...

Lots of small businesses suffer from this problem.  It can be infuriating for the customer, and seems so easy to fix - just be honest! - but in reality it is a lot more complicated and difficult than that and isn't really a matter of honesty so much as it is production management, ball juggling skills, and time estimates based more on aspiration than on realistic scenarios.  But just because it's difficult doesn't mean Klaus shouldn't work on it, and I hope he takes the criticism to heart.

[John151]

I had to think back to all of my transactions with Klaus.  All of my orders were completed promptly, and at a fantastic price.  I have struggled to get two amps converted to monos, but that is my fault, and only Klaus would give me that option.  Also, I really enjoy speaking with Klaus - he has a passion for this stuff that is rather contagious.

Sure, there are bottle necks in the process, and we don't get order numbers, and tracking numbers, but what is the alternative?  Place your order with an hourly administrative person who knows diddly about audio?  Or submit your order directly over the web, w/o ever speaking to anyone?   While the current set up is not perfect,  the personal touch is nice in this age of nameless, faceless internet transactions.    When I purchased my Loreli's, Klaus sent Mike out to meet me half way to Indy - no charge. 

I guess I get a certain satisfaction with my Odyssey gear knowing that it was made (assembled at least) in the USA, and that I know the man behind the blue Odyssey lamp. 


Everything is a compromise.    If Klaus grows the business to the point where it is a well oiled machine, we will surely lose some of the customized service that we have all come to enjoy and expect! 

[Vr3]

Not to get into a manufacture comparison contest...

But a prime example is Tyler Acoustics --

Ty and his crew has a well laid out website, its updated monthly with any shows/deals, etc they are doing.

All his products are on there and current pricing...

I can place my order online, or I can call Ty and talk to him for hours -- both of which he does not mind doing...

He also responds to any and all emails...

Its effecient, and I can talk to the owner of the company enthusiastically for hours...

Dont need to get rid of the homey feel

[Lkdog]

Thanks guys --

Like I said, I'm not trying to beat Klaus up here...


 

Yes, you were and the original post was a cheap shot. I think a lot of people viewing this might have the same opinion and most people who have dealt with Klaus have a hunch there is more to this little story. There always is.

If you truly were a "very concerned fan" you would simply call him directly to resolve whatever the issue might be.
That is the fair thing to do and what every manufacturer here on AC would appreciate. These public airing of dispute threads never go anywhere.

I do find it totally disingenuous that you would not have any contact with Klaus for two months and then come on here and make this type of post.

In the end, though, if you are unhappy then do not buy any more Odyssey gear or deal with him any longer. Very simple.
That is what happens in a competitive business.

But-you went the other direction. I have no idea why you would go out and then buy a used pair of Mono Extremes that may require you dealing with the very vendor that you think is going out of business and who "blows you off, is unprofessional, and an embarrassment".

I would think that someone who has been so badly allegedly mistreated would not want anything to do with the manufacturer any longer.

Simply take your business elsewhere and move on.

[Kevin Haskins]

Its tough to run a small show and keep everything moving in the right direction.   There are only so many hours in the day.

Klaus has a great reputation for delivering top-notch product at very reasonable prices.   He also seems to keep in close proximity to his customers.    Let me tell you from personal experience, its impossible for every transaction to go as planned.    Sometimes something goes astray, you miss a deadline or you fall behind on orders.    It happens, often for multiple reasons.   

Klaus is a class act and I'm sure he will make adjustments.

[TheChairGuy]

I think that Klaus' website being so back-asswards is wholly planned...he has enough business (to satisfy himself), why try to dredge up more business?

Since when did the rules change and that having a fully functional and coordinated, up-to-date, website become paramount to do business?  It's optional - always has been, always will be I think.  It's up to him to make it superlative, or not.

I certainly wouldn't think of running my business like Klaus does....but, I'm not Klaus  nor anyone, but me.

As for communication, mine with him has been perfect...so I'm at a loss as to why the OP has had these substantive issues. But, I hope you can try again as Klaus is the type of fella' one should enjoy doing business with - he's just very, very human when you get going with him.  His record for producing top notch gear at mid-market prices far proceed him, of course