Odyssey or sanders ?

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Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #40 on: 20 Aug 2015, 10:12 pm »
I'm weary of going from the 500/1000w mono blocks, to waaaay smaller per channel of only 200 watts with the odysseys.   Sanders is a remarkable little amp, VERY reminiscent of carvers design.

Would I hear a difference in going to much less power, I won't have the headroom, will I ?

roscoeiii

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #41 on: 20 Aug 2015, 10:25 pm »
Just looked up your speakers. My opinion?  Spend this cash on speakers. That is the biggest bang for your buck.  You are also in IL,  so check out some of the options around Chicago at stores and for sale used. Maybe start with that new PSB T3. Saturday Audio Exchange has those. The Carver is probably appropriate for the speakers you have now.

My 2¢,  for what it is worth.

roscoeiii

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #42 on: 20 Aug 2015, 10:27 pm »
And those speakers look pretty  efficient so I wouldn't worry about headroom.

steve f

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #43 on: 20 Aug 2015, 10:39 pm »
Sanders amps are not like Carver amps.

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #44 on: 20 Aug 2015, 10:47 pm »
And those speakers look pretty  efficient so I wouldn't worry about headroom.





 I have wanted Energy speakers for over 10 years, I just bought them, not even 100 hrs on them, they sound perfect in every way to me, I don't need better speakers, I have the best. Need an amp which will control the drivers, and make them sing. Still waiting to get my sunfire, no time to drive up to Rockford, working 6 days a week. Closed sundays. 

Actually I wanted Energy speakers 20 years ago with the c-500??? I think they were called, always wanted the Veritas.  These rc-70's are stunning visually and Audibly ( a word?)

My fear is if I buy the "other amp" will I second guess myself ,and well......you know how that goes.
I am so close to reaching my goal, now the harder part is a decision on the amp. I know I'm either getting the parasound p-5 or the NAD 165bee pre's. Heard some issues with the nad and unreliability, so thinking hard on this one. The para has many more features, iPod hook up, built in DAC, sub out, balanced ins/outs etc.  and I can get in silver to match my kismets, which will be also I I silver.

Hardest is the decision on the amp to choose.  Magtech will save me a lot of room, as it will fit under my tv on the rack, the mono's would be left n right of tv& stand next to the speaker.  Oh man"......

500 watts vs 200w ??  Seems like a no brainier, but I KNOW odysseys use waaaaaay better parts than the emotive stuff.

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #45 on: 20 Aug 2015, 10:51 pm »
Sanders amps are not like Carver amps.




Look inside, mirror image almost of sunfire and Magtech. Rows of sankens on sunfire, and rows of Motorola ones on the magtech, and a huge transformer. And."....that's it, very similar, they both use the incoming voltage to output watts to speakers. Tracking down converter of carver is very similar to the  upward whatever thingy sanders uses

roscoeiii

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #46 on: 20 Aug 2015, 11:46 pm »
While I am certainly happy you have found speakers you love, I doubt that they are "the best". Check out those PSB T3 speakers at Saturday Audio Exchange, or maybe Decibel has some higher end Harbeth speakers. Or hit AXPONA next year. Lots of killer killer speakers in the price range of the amps you mention. Especially if you buy used. Got a used pair of SP Tech Revelations for less than either amp costs, for example.

The proportion you are spending on amp vs speakers just feels a little out of whack. Think on it, and do some listening.

Tomy2Tone

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #47 on: 20 Aug 2015, 11:49 pm »
I'm weary of going from the 500/1000w mono blocks, to waaaay smaller per channel of only 200 watts with the odysseys.   Sanders is a remarkable little amp, VERY reminiscent of carvers design.

Would I hear a difference in going to much less power, I won't have the headroom, will I ?

This is where I wish Klaus had a little time to expound on the design of his amps and why he chooses the amperage/current and other particulars vs going with high wattage output like other amp makers do. I know he's very busy though.

I've had a pair of Crown XLS 1500's set to bridge mode which gives roughly 1500 watts per channel and while it was great, I feel the Kismets give me more refinement and detail while having the juice to get the drivers moving when I want to crank it up. Obviously a big difference in price but also different in design which is where I wish there could be a detailed explanation on the different approach Klaus takes vs what a lot of other amp makers do.

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #48 on: 21 Aug 2015, 12:37 am »
Can larger piltron  transformers be used, instead of 2 400 ones use 2 600's???, or larger?
Or would this not be compatible with your design?

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #49 on: 23 Aug 2015, 03:07 pm »
Ok, first.

 Every post I make is for my own personal knowledge, not any sort of talking shit about anyone, or any company or their products. 

 I read a lot, a LOT of reviews, I google an amp, and I will sit down, and read EVERY thing Google turns up, every link, I read, or scan through, so if I see someone saying they lose power, or they get thin when driven hard, it's NOT ME saying they are like this, I am merely asking in the one place where I know I will get honest answers about the product. 

I am the farthest thing from an asshole, I promise you, I am just maybe too honest, and would also like honesty in return, if a product has an issue, there should be no dishonesty about reporting it to future purchasers, so they know what to expect.

If I have come off as a dick, this is the absolute farthest think on my mind, or intention.

I am really broke, and I have had absolute shit luck in the past with every piece of audio gear I have ever purchased, things break all the time on me, must be the luck of the Irish/German in my blood.

I am VERY VERY nervous about paying this much for anything, he'll our largest purchase was our car, and we had to use the 6 years to pay, and it was only a GMC Acadia for the wife/kid to use..and didn't cost too much.

For me to spend thousands of dollars for some pieces of aluminum, and some electronic parts is hard for me, as, with my luck, well I just want things to work when I want to use them....trouble free.

I know everything breaks, but for the amount of time I actually spent with things on, vs the amount of pieces of equipment which have gone bad, is bad, as I mentioned I have had those emotiva amps since I think 2008 or 2009 , and they have nowhere near 400 hours on them. I use all my stuff sparingly, to try to make them last longer, as this is what I have always done. 

Hope I didn't make myself look like a dick. I look like one regardless, just don't want people to judge a book by its cover.   






roscoeiii

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #50 on: 23 Aug 2015, 03:33 pm »
If you are broke, then I wouldn't bother with a new amp.  As long as your amp is a good match with your speakers, you won't get night and day differences. And your speakers  are pretty easy to drive.

If you are sure you want amps of this caliber for such inexpensive speakers (again, not how I would distribute my audio funds)  and are really worried about making an expensive mistake,  then limit your search to amps you can audition,  preferably with your speakers.

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #51 on: 23 Aug 2015, 05:06 pm »
Not broke, we live paycheck to paycheck, each Time a check comes in, it's gone within 2 days, and waiting on the next one for other bills. And repeat weekly with this.

I haven't been saving this long, to come away empty handed, that's for sure.

I have stopped buying stuff before work, egg mcmuffins,pop, sunflower seeds, limited my copenhagen to only 1 can every two days, and saving every penny I can get my hands on for almost 4 years now, I'm almost there, almost there!!!!!! This has not been easy to limit myself to the joys of sunflower seeds and morning egg Mcmuffins at 445 am.

As far as speakers go, I haven't found a better pair or heard a better pair than the energy rc-70's.

I have heard klipsch- OUCH
B&w- ouch
Paradigm- upper range ones were nice, too much $
I missed the woot sale for the pinnacle ones, was angry, good speaker!
Heard the sonus faber, liked a lot, costs more than. The value of every possible physical possession I own, including current value of our cars.
PSb-too bright

Those modded Ed Frias BIC DVDs-64's I have are very good, he mods them to get rid of the GLARING tweeter, they sound a lot better not. Sure they only cost 200$ pair shipped, but sound great at low volumes.

The BIC DVDs-84's I have are so bright , they have been unused for quite some time, but resale value would be minimal for them, so there in our basement getting dust.

Anyway, price of speakers does not mean better quality, it only means you have a smaller wad of cash. I heard the energy's years ago, when they were a $2,500 pair of speakers, and I knew I could never afford them.
Once klipsch bought them, they became affordable, and I jumped on a pair, I had to, they're ( to me ) the best sounding speaker I have ever heard.   They have a great gene pool.

Energy rc-70's- audible perfection, smooth, tight, very accurate, natural sounding, superb natural highs without being too bright, completely flat response, let through the actual sound of the sources I use. Sound great at low volume, or cranking humble pie, motorhead, Gary Moore, Sodom, mercyful fate, or killing joke.

I have yet to hear a better speaker.  Everyone's ears are different, to me ,these are my go to , be all end all of speakers. My ears are sensitive to high freq, and truly hate, and get nervous or anxious feeling when treble is too much.  The Energy's are just so perfect to my ears, and there is absolutely zero listening fatigue, no matter the volume I listen at. Even if it's a mega low quality napalm death demo tape from 1983, it sounds good to me.

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #52 on: 23 Aug 2015, 05:27 pm »
Wife drove to rockford for me, upon leaving santas village. Hooked up night before last & turned on for warm up, bi-wired to my rc-70's. HOLY SH****IT ! Makes these emotiva sound like my onkyo tx-890 receiver.

 I'm happy for now.   

Would I hear much difference going from the 1200w at 4ohm sunfire to the 300w at 4 ohm kismet amps?

I don't want to spend a lot and downgrade.

Not saying it would be a downgrade, I am just asking if the would be an improvement in sound, or a sidestep, or less sound?

roscoeiii

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #53 on: 23 Aug 2015, 07:46 pm »
At  certain point, it is all about synergy. You have a 30day trial for the Magtech,  and maybe Klaus can point you to someone in IL with the amp you are interested in.

Phil A

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #54 on: 23 Aug 2015, 07:51 pm »
Wife drove to rockford for me, upon leaving santas village. Hooked up night before last & turned on for warm up, bi-wired to my rc-70's. HOLY SH****IT ! Makes these emotiva sound like my onkyo tx-890 receiver.

 I'm happy for now.   

Would I hear much difference going from the 1200w at 4ohm sunfire to the 300w at 4 ohm kismet amps?

I don't want to spend a lot and downgrade.

Not saying it would be a downgrade, I am just asking if the would be an improvement in sound, or a sidestep, or less sound?

Are you still listening to 128kbps files when evaluating audio components or a different source?

Arcticdeth

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #55 on: 23 Aug 2015, 08:08 pm »
Are you still listening to 128kbps files when evaluating audio components or a different source?



The 128 is for all day shuffle listening.

I use my pioneer elite dv48 for listening.  Hooked to my onkyo p-308 feeding my sunfire 600 sig.

Soon to get the parasound p-5. 


Phil A

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #56 on: 23 Aug 2015, 08:49 pm »
The Pioneer is an old player and I believe was $300 retail when it was brand new (and they blew it out for $100 when it was closed out).  I had an older model at one point many moons ago in the bedroom system.  Not heard the player but perhaps before investing money in amps consider (just a thought - it's not my funds and I understand that) improving the source which probably won't cost as much.  It's going to be tough to evaluate amps with a so-so source.  For example Schiit Audio makes decent DACs that likely can be purchased used for a reasonable amount (as does Emotiva and other companies).  Anyway - that's just a thought as I think it would be less money.

roscoeiii

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #57 on: 23 Aug 2015, 09:27 pm »
A good suggestion on a source upgrade. Many great DACs out there at great prices.

The proportions of your spending seem very off from what most would recommend. Do some good, wide-ranging listening before  committing your money. And let your ears be your guide.

For me,  in general I shoot for 50% or more of my budget on speakers,  30% on integrated amp or pre+amp  and 20% on source.

What I ended up with is 45% on speakers,  50% on source+pre (a DEQX unit that I am using as a preamp)  5% on amps (Crown XLS pro amps). Never sounded better. Tho yes,  amp is the obvious place to upgrade. But if the amp drives your speakers well,  you can get away with some great low cost options and spend where the cash will make the most difference.

I've tried saying this in a number of ways. So I'll just stop here.

Rocket

Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #58 on: 24 Aug 2015, 12:24 am »
Hi,

I agree with a previous comment that an amplifier won't make a huge improvement in sound quality with your current speakers.  Why not consider one Klaus' floor standing speakers which start from $2000USD.

I've been in hifi for a very long time and the most improvement I've ever had is with speaker upgrades.  Other products always give incremental improvements and also good quality records make a good difference.

Good luck.

Cheers Rod

STEREOmole

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Re: Odyssey or sanders ?
« Reply #59 on: 24 Aug 2015, 01:32 am »
I respect people that talk about gear that they've actually heard, or use in their system.  There are many that give advice on the forums based on reviews or their personal bias against gear they've never heard.

My personal hunch is that your speakers are FAR from the best, and you'd be best served spending the big money on a speaker upgrade.  That's based on no personal experience of mine whatsoever, though.  They might be the greatest speakers ever, I've never heard them.  At the very least, you owe it to yourself to audition a few speakers (with your existing amps) before moving on to a new amp.

As for the Pioneer DV-48, I have one (purchased for $50 new on clearance to be used as an SACD/DVD-A player) and although it's an "OK" player, it wouldn't be my choice as the source component in a high-end system without the use of an external DAC. I have an ancient Pioneer Elite PD-65, as well as a new'ish Pioneer Elite N-30 network player...and I'd choose either's factory stock DA conversion over that of the DV-48.  That being said, I've been using a DIY non-oversampling DAC with an antique chip for my DA conversion duties...so take my opinions for what they're worth based on that.  I think you could get a bigger improvement from a speaker or source upgrade than a new amp.

I'm putting together a second system w/ KEF LS50's and a Odyssey Cyclops in which I plan on using the N-30 as the source with.  If anyone has suggestions for semi-affordable DACs to try, I'd welcome them (don't want to hijack this thread though...maybe I will start a new one).  Does anyone have experience with the Schiit Bifrost?