AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: Arcticdeth on 19 Jul 2015, 05:46 pm
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Still looking at the sanders audio Magtech monos. Only problem is price is double that of a pair of kismet monos. I could have a pair of kismet and stratos mono extremes for same price.
Sanders does have a lifetime warranty on EVERYTHING, parts, labor, shipping etc etc.
DECISIONS, DECISIONS !!!!!!!
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The Magtech amps I've heard sound threadbare and thin, my Kismet monos have more meat on the bone and convey emotion better.
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The Magtech amps I've heard sound threadbare and thin, my Kismet monos have more meat on the bone and convey emotion better.
thank you, will continue to research.
need to hear a sanders amp for personal eval.
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One client bought a pair of Maggie 3.6s from me to replace his Quads. We tried his Magtech for 2 hours, then went back to his conrad-johnson tube unit, we both were relieved that the thin/bleached sound was not speaker related.
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One client bought a pair of Maggie 3.6s from me to replace his Quads. We tried his Magtech for 2 hours, then went back to his conrad-johnson tube unit, we both were relieved that the thin/bleached sound was not speaker related.
First I have heard this characterization of Sanders. Will have to look into this further.
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Both high current designe. Both roughly same price.
Sanders 500W 8ohm 900W 4ohm. Stable to 1 ohm.
Odyssey 200W 8 ohm 360?W 4 ohm stable to 1 ohm
Hmmmmmm. Ive had my heart set on kismet momos for quite some time.
I hate decisions. Im trying to email a guy couple towns over to audition his sanders amp. They are something special!!
Ive heard many thoughts on the sanders. Sterile sound etc. only initially. As like the odyssey amps , sanders r recommended on at all times. Goddamnet i dislike making decisions. 30 day inhome trial. Shipping both ways picked up by sanders. No one ever returned a sanders amp to date. Hmmmm nDAMNET!!
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While I've enjoyed Odyssey amplifiers, I have to say that it is at least possible for the magtech amps to NOT sound bleached out, as they sounded great with his panels at AXPONA. Not meaty per se, but definitely not bleached. I'm typically a fan of tubes, so I'd say I am sensitive to such issues.
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[quote author=Arcticdeth link=topic=136076.msg1446523#msg1446523 date=1437347714
thank you, will continue to research.
need to hear a sanders amp for personal eval.
[/quote]
Sanders:
30 Day In-Home Trial
" Our 30-day, in-home, risk-free trial works very simply and easily. We will ship you any equipment that you wish. You use it in your own home to listen to your familiar music, in your own listening room, with your own associated audio components for up to 30 days." That should give you the opportunity!
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For a while I had both a Sanders Magtech and a pair of VTL MB250 Signature mono block tube amps with Magnepan speakers. I'd go back and forth, using the tube amps when I wanted a bit more lush sound. I sold the VTL's because of the heat and needed $ for other stuff, and am completely satisfied with the Magtech. In my system there is no way the Magtech sounds threadbare and thin.
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I suppose it is possible to have both. This means selling my emotiva mono's.
Nice thing is if i wanted to go sanders monos with massive power. I heard he will give you full value of used stereo amp towards the monos.
Maybe ill buy kismet monos. Ans sanders stereo amp. Save then use old sanders for monos upgrade. I love and hate this hobby
Must sell off most of my old gear if this will happen
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For a while I had both a Sanders Magtech and a pair of VTL MB250 Signature mono block tube amps with Magnepan speakers. I'd go back and forth, using the tube amps when I wanted a bit more lush sound. I sold the VTL's because of the heat and needed $ for other stuff, and am completely satisfied with the Magtech. In my system there is no way the Magtech sounds threadbare and thin.
Out of the box sound. Or week or so to fully charge for best sound. ?
Please describe sound. Definitely not thin?
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Maybe I missed it or its probably covered in another thread but what are you matching up with your choices of amps - preamp, speakers, etc.?
How big is the room, how loud do you like to listen?
Maybe a little more info will allow responders to offer more informed opinions.....
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Energy RC-70's - cerwin vega modded D-9's
Onkyo p-308 - parasound p-5(soon) B&K pro10 mc
Pioneer elite dv ?? As cd player.
Ipod
Technics sl-1200mkii
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These amps will power your Energys?
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These amps will power your Energys?
YES, and it will be amazing.
There is a sound i like when playing speakers with this much zest. There is an airy quality i love. I always have overpowered amps. I like the sound. Much different than a 100w anything. There is just something about it, and i love it. Plus my cv d-9's will gobble it up.
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I like somewhat loud. But i also enjoy low volume as well around the house on weekends when home.
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Just buy the bloody Odyssey amps for cripe's sake. You know you want them, you've been stalking them for almost two years...they're GREAT amps.
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Nothing wrong with your speakers & system but unless you are looking to upgrade them in the near future the Sanders stuff will be overkill (IMHO) and I think that any amp that Klaus builds with sufficient power for those Energys will mate nicely with your speakers.
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Nothing wrong with your speakers & system but unless you are looking to upgrade them in the near future the Sanders stuff will be overkill (IMHO)...
Yeah, either choice would be extreme overkill with your current system, unless you plan on upgrading everything and you're starting with the amps. Right now, the Odyssey or Sanders would be "too good" for the rest of your system.
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Stratos Stereo Extreme would do very nicely. For the price its a no brainer. Too bad you missed the pair of used monoblocks that were for sale a few weeks back - I thought they were a very good deal but thats water under the bridge this point...
I think the "SSE" would be a very nice marriage with your speakers
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First I have heard this characterization of Sanders. Will have to look into this further.
I agree. I had Magtechs at one point, and found them very well balanced driving both Salk Soundscape 10s and Sanders 10C electrostats. If I were in the market for a SS amp, the Magtech would be at the top of my list.
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Yeah, either choice would be extreme overkill with your current system, unless you plan on upgrading everything and you're starting with the amps. Right now, the Odyssey or Sanders would be "too good" for the rest of your system.
Indeed!
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Yeah, either choice would be extreme overkill with your current system, unless you plan on upgrading everything and you're starting with the amps. Right now, the Odyssey or Sanders would be "too good" for the rest of your system.
I disagree, RC-70's are the point of diminished return to spend more on not getting much better. 2200$ a pair is good enou for me, there is not much better at this price point. Only if I go over 5000 for speakers will I get any better, and the better is not that much. They sound amazing, so nice and detailed, crystal clear at everything they do. They sound superb, and still have another 150+ hours until 300 hours break in. The wait is amazing, the midrange has opened up so much, Yngwie sounds like he is in the room, as does Gary Moore.
I would bet the sanders or kismet would be great match. But the sanders is somewhat winning, as at 500 at 8 ohm, this is a beast. Sunfire still has more power, but is aging.
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Just buy the bloody Odyssey amps for cripe's sake. You know you want them, you've been stalking them for almost two years...they're GREAT amps.
Hahahah. Close to 3 years. I know, I REALLY WANT THEM!!!!
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Arcticdeth, the review of the Odyssey Stratos Monoblocks by Jonathan Valin in Absolute Sound has some useful information and they were also listed in the latest Absolute Sound Buyers Guide.
See link to Jonathan Valin's complete review in the 2015 Buyers guide. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/buyers_guides/28/download/pdf/
Check the Contents under Electronics for the review of the Odyssey Stratos Monoblocks.
They compared very favorably to the $65k Soulution 711 Stereo Amplifier.
Scotty
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Tough decision. Two world class amps.
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I think I'm going to go with the sanders stereo amp. Lifetime warranty, also over double the power of the kismet and just as much if not more current delivery. About 150 amps current delivery. Will save room also, as I can put it in my rack under my tv. I can then save for the kismet amps should I find a used pair.
I still need money to fix my b&k pro10 mc and sunfire signature. And buy either the NAD 165bee or parasound p-5. Why do I have to bee so poor?!! Trying to get nice stuff on a 26,000 salary is not easy.
Bills, taxes, cable, gas, water, food, rent. I wish life was easier for us. Paycheck to paycheck sucks balls!
The b&k has been sitting for years in closet. Had loose transformer in sunfire for quite some time. Onto p-308 getting old and no one wants to upgrade it. Lots of parts inside.
. Oh well. On to saving pennies for my audio gear
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I did hook up my b&k as u all remember, the hum is horrible.
Maybe I should just sell everything I own and buy a Bose wave radio. And still have a bit of cash
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Remember a lifetime warranty in audio is sometimes only a lifetime warranty if you kick the bucket before the proprietor does!
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Remember a lifetime warranty in audio is sometimes only a lifetime warranty if you kick the bucket before the proprietor does!
A lifetime warranty is also worthless if the company goes out of business. Does the warranty include shipping and parts?
Given your financial circumstances, aim lower. We all know exactly what's gonna happen once you get the Sanders -- you'll immediately want to upgrade every other component. We've all been there and it ain't pretty. Prepare to drain your entire bank account and max out your credit cards.
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Upgradeitis is a tough disease. I believe it's a subset of audiophilia. I just started a round of it myself. I want to buy a Magtech too.
steve
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Keeping energy speaks for long haul. Best I've heard in a long time, regardless of price.
All I need is a good preamp after I buy the amp
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Cmon, I need more votes, I honestly really want the kismet so monos, and the sanders. I would love to find a pair of used kismet so, I missed the new ones on eBay just a month ago for 2500, I was pissed, as that WAS my chance to get them for a good price, I have a hard time paying full price for anything, as once I plug me in they lose half of their value. Sanders, kismet monos ?????? GODDAMNET.
CMON Klaus, sell me.
Check out the sanders specs, and sell me on yours, why they would be a better fit for my energy rc-70's
And no either amp are not too good for my energy speakers. Best speakers I've ever heard regardless of price.
SELL ME KLAUS !!!! call, email, pm me. Soon, very soon, almost have the cash for my last amp purchase.
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For your application, odyssey. If you were running ESLs, then Sanders. Either amp can drive your speakers cleanly without clipping. I think the Odyssey can be biased to drive your speakers nicely. This is a you can't go wrong situation. Save a few bucks.
steve
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They are the same price roughly. Magtech possibly a hair less expensive.
Double the watts, lifetime warranty, as much if not more current delivery from magtech's. Imd & thd .004 & .003 respectively. Ultra clean power. Regulated power supply. I already KNOW the world class operation of the stratos GC and kismet, their reputation is second to none, this I know.
Two versions of the Magtech, one for ESL and one for standard drivers. AAAHHHHHHHGGGGG DAMNET!!!!!!!!!
Klaus, need a good price, HELP
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The Sanders ESL amp is quite similar to the Magtech but is unregulated. There aren't any Magtech variants.
A Magtech is $5.5K these days, and is worth every penny. If you go Odyssey, you get mono blocks. That might be a setup advantage.
I know this isn't helping much. From what I've read about your speaker choice, either amp will drive them effortlessly.
steve
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Just pull the trigger on one or the other. It is all about your system and your preferences. Both are no slouch.
Maybe try the less expensive first? Or wait for one or the other to show up used? Or get on the phone with Klaus and Sanders to get their (admittedly biased) opinions.
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Ok , im buying both! Have several speakers to sell, and other odds and ends.
This will happen. Im a man on a mission. !!!!
" were on a mission from God " - in best Elwood Blues voice.
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They are the same price roughly. Magtech possibly a hair less expensive.
Double the watts, lifetime warranty, as much if not more current delivery from magtech's. Imd & thd .004 & .003 respectively. Ultra clean power. Regulated power supply. I already KNOW the world class operation of the stratos GC and kismet, their reputation is second to none, this I know.
Two versions of the Magtech, one for ESL and one for standard drivers. AAAHHHHHHHGGGGG DAMNET!!!!!!!!!
Klaus, need a good price, HELP
As a new user here I admittedly have low experience with the Odyssey amp but I do have a few opinions on specs.
First I am not a big believer in watts as an indicator of power, I think an amps current delivery and control mean a whole lot more. I own a high end 30w amp that would peel paint on the walls with most but the most difficult speakers, and sound great doing it.
Imd & thd .004 & .003? This is such a wash, I don't even think it should be a factor for consideration IMO these specs are an overblown indicator of an amps sound. I think either one of these needs to be over 1% to even worry about it.
Warranty. 20years vs lifetime? Non issue, any manufacturer who is willing to stand behind their product for 20 years or more should be commended. I maintain 20 years is a lifetime in audio, most gear including the super high end usually comes with 2years or less.
I have a recently acquired Kismet stereo and I can tell you that it gives up very little compared to my 8000 dollar Luxman. Pull the trigger on either one, hook it up and enjoy the music, it will make you happy trust me :D
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There's a pair of Stratos Extreme's for sale on Agon...fyi
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I'm weary of going from the 500/1000w mono blocks, to waaaay smaller per channel of only 200 watts with the odysseys. Sanders is a remarkable little amp, VERY reminiscent of carvers design.
Would I hear a difference in going to much less power, I won't have the headroom, will I ?
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Just looked up your speakers. My opinion? Spend this cash on speakers. That is the biggest bang for your buck. You are also in IL, so check out some of the options around Chicago at stores and for sale used. Maybe start with that new PSB T3. Saturday Audio Exchange has those. The Carver is probably appropriate for the speakers you have now.
My 2¢, for what it is worth.
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And those speakers look pretty efficient so I wouldn't worry about headroom.
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Sanders amps are not like Carver amps.
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And those speakers look pretty efficient so I wouldn't worry about headroom.
I have wanted Energy speakers for over 10 years, I just bought them, not even 100 hrs on them, they sound perfect in every way to me, I don't need better speakers, I have the best. Need an amp which will control the drivers, and make them sing. Still waiting to get my sunfire, no time to drive up to Rockford, working 6 days a week. Closed sundays.
Actually I wanted Energy speakers 20 years ago with the c-500??? I think they were called, always wanted the Veritas. These rc-70's are stunning visually and Audibly ( a word?)
My fear is if I buy the "other amp" will I second guess myself ,and well......you know how that goes.
I am so close to reaching my goal, now the harder part is a decision on the amp. I know I'm either getting the parasound p-5 or the NAD 165bee pre's. Heard some issues with the nad and unreliability, so thinking hard on this one. The para has many more features, iPod hook up, built in DAC, sub out, balanced ins/outs etc. and I can get in silver to match my kismets, which will be also I I silver.
Hardest is the decision on the amp to choose. Magtech will save me a lot of room, as it will fit under my tv on the rack, the mono's would be left n right of tv& stand next to the speaker. Oh man"......
500 watts vs 200w ?? Seems like a no brainier, but I KNOW odysseys use waaaaaay better parts than the emotive stuff.
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Sanders amps are not like Carver amps.
Look inside, mirror image almost of sunfire and Magtech. Rows of sankens on sunfire, and rows of Motorola ones on the magtech, and a huge transformer. And."....that's it, very similar, they both use the incoming voltage to output watts to speakers. Tracking down converter of carver is very similar to the upward whatever thingy sanders uses
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While I am certainly happy you have found speakers you love, I doubt that they are "the best". Check out those PSB T3 speakers at Saturday Audio Exchange, or maybe Decibel has some higher end Harbeth speakers. Or hit AXPONA next year. Lots of killer killer speakers in the price range of the amps you mention. Especially if you buy used. Got a used pair of SP Tech Revelations for less than either amp costs, for example.
The proportion you are spending on amp vs speakers just feels a little out of whack. Think on it, and do some listening.
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I'm weary of going from the 500/1000w mono blocks, to waaaay smaller per channel of only 200 watts with the odysseys. Sanders is a remarkable little amp, VERY reminiscent of carvers design.
Would I hear a difference in going to much less power, I won't have the headroom, will I ?
This is where I wish Klaus had a little time to expound on the design of his amps and why he chooses the amperage/current and other particulars vs going with high wattage output like other amp makers do. I know he's very busy though.
I've had a pair of Crown XLS 1500's set to bridge mode which gives roughly 1500 watts per channel and while it was great, I feel the Kismets give me more refinement and detail while having the juice to get the drivers moving when I want to crank it up. Obviously a big difference in price but also different in design which is where I wish there could be a detailed explanation on the different approach Klaus takes vs what a lot of other amp makers do.
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Can larger piltron transformers be used, instead of 2 400 ones use 2 600's???, or larger?
Or would this not be compatible with your design?
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Ok, first.
Every post I make is for my own personal knowledge, not any sort of talking shit about anyone, or any company or their products.
I read a lot, a LOT of reviews, I google an amp, and I will sit down, and read EVERY thing Google turns up, every link, I read, or scan through, so if I see someone saying they lose power, or they get thin when driven hard, it's NOT ME saying they are like this, I am merely asking in the one place where I know I will get honest answers about the product.
I am the farthest thing from an asshole, I promise you, I am just maybe too honest, and would also like honesty in return, if a product has an issue, there should be no dishonesty about reporting it to future purchasers, so they know what to expect.
If I have come off as a dick, this is the absolute farthest think on my mind, or intention.
I am really broke, and I have had absolute shit luck in the past with every piece of audio gear I have ever purchased, things break all the time on me, must be the luck of the Irish/German in my blood.
I am VERY VERY nervous about paying this much for anything, he'll our largest purchase was our car, and we had to use the 6 years to pay, and it was only a GMC Acadia for the wife/kid to use..and didn't cost too much.
For me to spend thousands of dollars for some pieces of aluminum, and some electronic parts is hard for me, as, with my luck, well I just want things to work when I want to use them....trouble free.
I know everything breaks, but for the amount of time I actually spent with things on, vs the amount of pieces of equipment which have gone bad, is bad, as I mentioned I have had those emotiva amps since I think 2008 or 2009 , and they have nowhere near 400 hours on them. I use all my stuff sparingly, to try to make them last longer, as this is what I have always done.
Hope I didn't make myself look like a dick. I look like one regardless, just don't want people to judge a book by its cover.
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If you are broke, then I wouldn't bother with a new amp. As long as your amp is a good match with your speakers, you won't get night and day differences. And your speakers are pretty easy to drive.
If you are sure you want amps of this caliber for such inexpensive speakers (again, not how I would distribute my audio funds) and are really worried about making an expensive mistake, then limit your search to amps you can audition, preferably with your speakers.
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Not broke, we live paycheck to paycheck, each Time a check comes in, it's gone within 2 days, and waiting on the next one for other bills. And repeat weekly with this.
I haven't been saving this long, to come away empty handed, that's for sure.
I have stopped buying stuff before work, egg mcmuffins,pop, sunflower seeds, limited my copenhagen to only 1 can every two days, and saving every penny I can get my hands on for almost 4 years now, I'm almost there, almost there!!!!!! This has not been easy to limit myself to the joys of sunflower seeds and morning egg Mcmuffins at 445 am.
As far as speakers go, I haven't found a better pair or heard a better pair than the energy rc-70's.
I have heard klipsch- OUCH
B&w- ouch
Paradigm- upper range ones were nice, too much $
I missed the woot sale for the pinnacle ones, was angry, good speaker!
Heard the sonus faber, liked a lot, costs more than. The value of every possible physical possession I own, including current value of our cars.
PSb-too bright
Those modded Ed Frias BIC DVDs-64's I have are very good, he mods them to get rid of the GLARING tweeter, they sound a lot better not. Sure they only cost 200$ pair shipped, but sound great at low volumes.
The BIC DVDs-84's I have are so bright , they have been unused for quite some time, but resale value would be minimal for them, so there in our basement getting dust.
Anyway, price of speakers does not mean better quality, it only means you have a smaller wad of cash. I heard the energy's years ago, when they were a $2,500 pair of speakers, and I knew I could never afford them.
Once klipsch bought them, they became affordable, and I jumped on a pair, I had to, they're ( to me ) the best sounding speaker I have ever heard. They have a great gene pool.
Energy rc-70's- audible perfection, smooth, tight, very accurate, natural sounding, superb natural highs without being too bright, completely flat response, let through the actual sound of the sources I use. Sound great at low volume, or cranking humble pie, motorhead, Gary Moore, Sodom, mercyful fate, or killing joke.
I have yet to hear a better speaker. Everyone's ears are different, to me ,these are my go to , be all end all of speakers. My ears are sensitive to high freq, and truly hate, and get nervous or anxious feeling when treble is too much. The Energy's are just so perfect to my ears, and there is absolutely zero listening fatigue, no matter the volume I listen at. Even if it's a mega low quality napalm death demo tape from 1983, it sounds good to me.
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Wife drove to rockford for me, upon leaving santas village. Hooked up night before last & turned on for warm up, bi-wired to my rc-70's. HOLY SH****IT ! Makes these emotiva sound like my onkyo tx-890 receiver.
I'm happy for now.
Would I hear much difference going from the 1200w at 4ohm sunfire to the 300w at 4 ohm kismet amps?
I don't want to spend a lot and downgrade.
Not saying it would be a downgrade, I am just asking if the would be an improvement in sound, or a sidestep, or less sound?
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At certain point, it is all about synergy. You have a 30day trial for the Magtech, and maybe Klaus can point you to someone in IL with the amp you are interested in.
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Wife drove to rockford for me, upon leaving santas village. Hooked up night before last & turned on for warm up, bi-wired to my rc-70's. HOLY SH****IT ! Makes these emotiva sound like my onkyo tx-890 receiver.
I'm happy for now.
Would I hear much difference going from the 1200w at 4ohm sunfire to the 300w at 4 ohm kismet amps?
I don't want to spend a lot and downgrade.
Not saying it would be a downgrade, I am just asking if the would be an improvement in sound, or a sidestep, or less sound?
Are you still listening to 128kbps files when evaluating audio components or a different source?
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Are you still listening to 128kbps files when evaluating audio components or a different source?
The 128 is for all day shuffle listening.
I use my pioneer elite dv48 for listening. Hooked to my onkyo p-308 feeding my sunfire 600 sig.
Soon to get the parasound p-5.
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The Pioneer is an old player and I believe was $300 retail when it was brand new (and they blew it out for $100 when it was closed out). I had an older model at one point many moons ago in the bedroom system. Not heard the player but perhaps before investing money in amps consider (just a thought - it's not my funds and I understand that) improving the source which probably won't cost as much. It's going to be tough to evaluate amps with a so-so source. For example Schiit Audio makes decent DACs that likely can be purchased used for a reasonable amount (as does Emotiva and other companies). Anyway - that's just a thought as I think it would be less money.
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A good suggestion on a source upgrade. Many great DACs out there at great prices.
The proportions of your spending seem very off from what most would recommend. Do some good, wide-ranging listening before committing your money. And let your ears be your guide.
For me, in general I shoot for 50% or more of my budget on speakers, 30% on integrated amp or pre+amp and 20% on source.
What I ended up with is 45% on speakers, 50% on source+pre (a DEQX unit that I am using as a preamp) 5% on amps (Crown XLS pro amps). Never sounded better. Tho yes, amp is the obvious place to upgrade. But if the amp drives your speakers well, you can get away with some great low cost options and spend where the cash will make the most difference.
I've tried saying this in a number of ways. So I'll just stop here.
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Hi,
I agree with a previous comment that an amplifier won't make a huge improvement in sound quality with your current speakers. Why not consider one Klaus' floor standing speakers which start from $2000USD.
I've been in hifi for a very long time and the most improvement I've ever had is with speaker upgrades. Other products always give incremental improvements and also good quality records make a good difference.
Good luck.
Cheers Rod
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I respect people that talk about gear that they've actually heard, or use in their system. There are many that give advice on the forums based on reviews or their personal bias against gear they've never heard.
My personal hunch is that your speakers are FAR from the best, and you'd be best served spending the big money on a speaker upgrade. That's based on no personal experience of mine whatsoever, though. They might be the greatest speakers ever, I've never heard them. At the very least, you owe it to yourself to audition a few speakers (with your existing amps) before moving on to a new amp.
As for the Pioneer DV-48, I have one (purchased for $50 new on clearance to be used as an SACD/DVD-A player) and although it's an "OK" player, it wouldn't be my choice as the source component in a high-end system without the use of an external DAC. I have an ancient Pioneer Elite PD-65, as well as a new'ish Pioneer Elite N-30 network player...and I'd choose either's factory stock DA conversion over that of the DV-48. That being said, I've been using a DIY non-oversampling DAC with an antique chip for my DA conversion duties...so take my opinions for what they're worth based on that. I think you could get a bigger improvement from a speaker or source upgrade than a new amp.
I'm putting together a second system w/ KEF LS50's and a Odyssey Cyclops in which I plan on using the N-30 as the source with. If anyone has suggestions for semi-affordable DACs to try, I'd welcome them (don't want to hijack this thread though...maybe I will start a new one). Does anyone have experience with the Schiit Bifrost?
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Give "semi-affordable" a dollar range and you might get more useful suggestions.
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I was thinking less than $500 for my "semi-affordable" budget. That's why I was looking at the Bifrost. For $500, I can pick up a Pioneer N-50 and leave my N-30 in my old system though, and it supposedly has excellent conversion. Also, like I said in my previous post, I'm currently using a non-oversampling DAC and loving it...just looking for more detail without loosing the smooth treble and analog sound, and I need another DAC for the second system.
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The Bifrost is ok, but I'd look into the ifi microDSD. I had the Bifrost Uber, it's ok but the ifi is probably a better choice right now imo.
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Theresa good DAC in the parasound p-5 I'm eying. Nad 165bee has no DAC like the parasound.
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The Bifrost is ok, but I'd look into the ifi microDSD. I had the Bifrost Uber, it's ok but the ifi is probably a better choice right now imo.
+1 on iFi Micro iDSD.
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Has anyone heard the iFi Nano as compared to the Micro? The iFi DACs are very visually unattractive (remind me of some Radio Shack stereo amp from 1987) and seem to cram a lot of features in there that I don't necessarily want...but, I don't listen with my eyes and the lack of visual appeal is offset by a very attractive price and rave reviews. Is the 'headphone amp' part of the DAC separate from the line level outs? In other words the volume control doesn't work on the line level RCA output?
I'm thinking the Nano might be all the DAC I need for my purposes (mostly playing 16/44.1 FLAC files w/ occasional MP3 and a sprinkling of DSD) if it compares favorably to the Micro. The headphone amp would be a cool feature for listening late-night, but I probably don't need the battery that the Micro offers, and that 3D/bass enhancement stuff scares me.
Thanks for the suggestions!
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I have a ifi micro as well, it does computer duty for me. It is one of the best deals going in audio right now, and I love how small it is.
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Has anyone heard the iFi Nano as compared to the Micro? The iFi DACs are very visually unattractive (remind me of some Radio Shack stereo amp from 1987) and seem to cram a lot of features in there that I don't necessarily want...but, I don't listen with my eyes and the lack of visual appeal is offset by a very attractive price and rave reviews. Is the 'headphone amp' part of the DAC separate from the line level outs? In other words the volume control doesn't work on the line level RCA output?
I'm thinking the Nano might be all the DAC I need for my purposes (mostly playing 16/44.1 FLAC files w/ occasional MP3 and a sprinkling of DSD) if it compares favorably to the Micro. The headphone amp would be a cool feature for listening late-night, but I probably don't need the battery that the Micro offers, and that 3D/bass enhancement stuff scares me.
Thanks for the suggestions!
My understanding is that the micro is a considerable improvement on the nano. I'd check Headfi for comparisons. There are long threads on both, in addition to user reviews.
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I have a Khartago/Candela/LS50 combo I am using with a MF V90 Dac and have been quite happy with it. I am using an Imac currently with it as well, sounds better a lot of the time than the CDs I play through the same system. Files are all FLAC and I am using PLAY as the music player. I have used this DAC with my smaller desktop system and it is consistent in its sound.
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Well, i packed up my energy rc-70's late afternoon, yesterday, took an hour drive to north chicago burbs.
Welcomed by a home made supper & cold German bier. I brought appetizers and dessert.
I auditioned the sanders magtech till fairly late, rick was very nice and friendly, as was his wife & daughter
I must say this amp is nothing short of phenominal.
Anyone who said thin or harsh, must be deaf, or just did t actually hear it.
Rc-70's sounded so good, i never would have thought that they could play so clean, effortless to the volume we had them, powered by the stereo magtech with sanders pre.
More to come......
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Anyone near chicago with kismet extreme monos?
I can bring food n tunes.
Only full on kismets, nothing else.
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A lot of folks are not familiar with your speakers, a few years back they were considered very good "bang for buck" especially at discounted prices. They compare favorably to speakers in the 2500.00 to 3000.00 price range. Losing out in terms of some timbal accuracy and imaging. The speakers are pretty efficient also which means you do need the headroom of the Sanders which was built for electrostatics which are much harder to drive than your speakers. Based on your earlier comments I would go for one of Klaus' high current stereo amps upgrade to 180000 uf (still overkill) and use the extra money to buy an Oppo DVD and Klaus extremely good Candela preamp or put the money into a DSP Antimode room correction for 1200.00 which is a Dac, preamp room correction all in one. Now you can go and blow your load on the amps you have been discussing for four pages or listen to some of my or other very good suggestions people have given you, which will give you much better sound.
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Anyone near chicago with kismet extreme monos?
I can bring food n tunes.
Only full on kismets, nothing else.
Perhaps call Klaus. Maybe he can put a willing Chicago customer in touch with you.
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Why not just take a drive down I65 to Indy? Klaus is a great host :thumb:
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The speakers are pretty efficient also which means you do need the headroom of the Sanders which was built for electrostatics which are much harder to drive than your speakers.
Eugene2, I think you left out "NOT" from the sentence above. Should be "you do not need the headroom of the Sanders", correct?
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Headroom is king!
The magtech is different from the esl amp, magtech has the regulated power supply.
I keep looking at the pics of the kismet from other post, damnet!!! I like the monoblocks.
AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Chicago to Indianapolis can't be too far of a drive. Go see Klaus when he's home. He's got the same Kismet mono's that he made for me plus you could hear his speakers and compare them to your Energy's.
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Hi,
I agree with the pervious post. Try to see Klaus and listen to his amps and speakers. That way you can listen for yourself and also compare your energy speakers with Odyssey equipment.
Cheers Rod
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Why not just take a drive down I65 to Indy? Klaus is a great host :thumb:
Yeah, what he said... :D
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Headroom is king!
Headroom is important but relative to the efficiency of your speakers.
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Eugene2, I think you left out "NOT" from the sentence above. Should be "you do not need the headroom of the Sanders", correct?
Yep left out not
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I am still on the fence about my decision.
I just don't want to. Make the wrong decision, I don't mind seeing my 4 year saving plan go to someone else, I just "need to be sure I am making the correct decision"
I know both the kismets and sanders magtech's are absolutely the very best in their respective class, regardless of price, as spending much more really won't matter much in sound quality anyway.
I have literally been saving every dime and nickel I get my hands on for quite some time, and am just scared to spend all of it. I know klaus said he will help, but I would rather have the cash in hand for the full monte, than go less and not get what I want. I am a all or nothing guy, if there's a better amp, than the one I get, and I didn't get "that" one, I would not be happy, as it would be on my head forever.
I am still saving for my amps'. If I decide on the magtech, I WOULD start to save for the monoblocks upgrade and eventually would get there (3-4) more years of saving though. Ugghhhh
But, the Odyssey's are also available, and as I have the setup for monos, 2 nice hand stained cutting boards which I rest t he amps on(currently emotive xpa-1 monos) but they have been unplugged and unused since getting back my sunfire signature 600W stereo amp.
I still need a little more time to save just a little bit more before I am able to call klaus and say " I am ready, let's talk capacitance " it's me having the money, and knowing I didn't get the very best I can for my very very hard earned money. Money does not come easy for me, and if I do make the wrong decision, I'll really be up shit creek,and I'll be on a inflatable raft I'm sure.
I did read the review about the guy who bought the kismets for his dynaudio c-4 speakers, which by the way are stunning in every sense of the word, I heard a pair at a shop a little while back, huh, words don't do justice to those. If the kismets are good for those( déjà vu) c-4's, they should and will be good enough for my rc-70's
I'm just a very nervous guy when it comes to seeing that much money leave my hands. I have googled odyssey, and sanders and read EVERY link on each amp, all 3 klaus makes, plus the sanders magtech. The past months, I have read so much on each amp. Not 1 bad review, and if there was one, it was fixed(remedied)
I may assume the sanders would sound somewhat similar to my sunfire signature, as both of them, are toroidal + chips. While kismets are much smaller toroidal + caps. Either way, I really can't lose, I am just very very scared about reliability, money spent. Both companies have a killer warranty, odyssey with 20 years, and lifetime on sanders stuff. I have repeated this I'm sure in other posts, it's, just my fear of something going wrong, I know everything breaks, electronics especially are sketchy, and are prone to breaks. Maybe I'm being silly, or maybe I'm having a legitimate rant. As you can all tell I'm nervous. Especially with spending so much money. I'm not the guy who can write a check for 20k for dynaudio' and pass labs flagship amps. I am the flank steak guy over filet, and the chix nugget guy over double quarter pounder.
Money does not come easy for me, my job is shit and our bank acct is always under 2k, no matter what. We have tried every possible route to save, but bills and life say " sorry dude "
So the past 4 years saving has not been easy, as the wife don't even know I have my rathole fund for audio gear, so when I get what I get, there will be an interrogation on me with 40 ?'s.
Honestly, I'm scared to buy, and the main reason is reliability, I "need" it, more than anything truly.
Oh boy, I don't want super serious replies, I'm just ranting a bit. I have been eyeing the odyssey since I dropped my last audio fund money on the emotive crap, for which I somewhat regret honestly, it's. Ok, but why would a 1998 sunfire amp sound better than 2008 1000w emotive monoblocks? Rhetorical question guys.
I now kick myself for not getting the Odyssey's back in 2008 when I bought the "other" brand.
The emotiva purchase, was thoughtless, I didn't think, or look around, I just noticed, 1000@ 4 ohm, and monoblocks, and thought wow, great specs, power rating, The little guy in me said no, wait, but the lifetime warranty swayed me, even though the sound is not the best in the midrange or highs. Oh boy................
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I have owned Odyssey amps since 1999. The ones that are not here anymore are still in use by other owners with no problems at all. What more could you ask for in addition to a transferable 20 year warranty. Plus Odyssey employees and owners are a family who have grown together since 1999, whereas these other guys have reinvented there selves several times with different companies and name brands. Bottom line just make a decision and be done with it. If you buy from Klaus and don't like them they are easily sold. Trust me I have sold three Odyssey amps to other AC members in a matter of days. Try reselling some of this other stuff you are talking about and see how that goes.
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I have owned Odyssey amps since 1999. The ones that are not here anymore are still in use by other owners with no problems at all. What more could you ask for in addition to a transferable 20 year warranty. Plus Odyssey employees and owners are a family who have grown together since 1999, whereas these other guys have reinvented there selves several times with different companies and name brands. Bottom line just make a decision and be done with it. If you buy from Klaus and don't like them they are easily sold. Trust me I have sold three Odyssey amps to other AC members in a matter of days. Try reselling some of this other stuff you are talking about and see how that goes.
I have owned Odyssey amps since 1999. The ones that are not here anymore are still in use by other owners with no problems at all. What more could you ask for in addition to a transferable 20 year warranty. Plus Odyssey employees and owners are a family who have grown together since 1999, whereas these other guys have reinvented there selves several times with different companies and name brands. Bottom line just make a decision and be done with it. If you buy from Klaus and don't like them they are easily sold. Trust me I have sold three Odyssey amps to other AC members in a matter of days. Try reselling some of this other stuff you are talking about and see how that goes.
I would have no issue selling magtech, that would get me %90 of what I paid for it.
Now those emotiva (by the way, is the worst name I have ever heard for audio) I'll most likely lose on those, they hardly were used, seriously, if they were on, or used more than 200-250 honest use hours since 2008, and I am being very Generous in hours used, as me being me, didn't use them often, because I was nervous about them breaking, so I used My old receiver for most listening. I know I'm extremely anal, but that's just me. And as even if I put 300 hours used in the sale, no one in their right mind will believe a pair of 7-8 year old amps could have such low hours. I should. Have bought the hour meters when I heard about them.
The sanders is really a straight wire sound, very accurate to recordings, as are my speakers, they put out exactly what recordings I play on them. I'm at a loss now, .....goddamnet.
Im in knots honestly, between these two amps. Both are absolutely superb, either way I won't be disappointed, but I'm still nervous. With my attitude towards reliability, and getting what I want "need" in amps.
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Really good luck with the 90% resale on anything audio, much less a "fringe" brand. You come on an Odyssey forum and ask for advice and then pay no attention to what anybody tells you so I don't know if any of us can help you. Just make a decision any decision and move on this has been going on for over a year. Good luck!
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My last concern is, headroom, I know there is not much need with my 94 spa speakers, but I like it.
Anyway, the emotiva (every time I use that name I dislike it more, worst. Name for any company) amps are 500w@8 1000w@4, would I notice less sound on crescendos, with much less available power?
On occasion, I love loud, especially with my modded cerwin vega D-9's, their spl has been lowered to about 98 from the 101 stock. Spl at 1w. But I love shaking my windows with them, and my neighbors across the street occasionally call me and say "good tune, turn it up" so I am in need on as much power as I can give them, they drink it up, and with nominal of 3.8 at their lowest point, will a 200 w amp be enough muscle for them? I would use the sunfire with them, but I would also LOVE to hear them with odyssey amps.
I don't want to clip them, if their at 200w at 8 ohm, and speakers are rated for 350, would I drain the reserves of the caps? Not implying they will get drained, I am just asking a honest question. I don't want something that is not up to par with my big D-9's. They can play loud as hell with clarity for long periods, with minimal fatigue, since their crossover upgrade I had done, and new woofer. I "need" a capable amp, that can party with the big dogs.
The emotivas get ungodly hot after 40 minutes of neighbor listening levels, and have shut down the emotivas on more than 1 occasion with the D-9's hooked up. No issues what so ever with the sunfire, unlimited pure power awesomeness, hardly warm at insane volume after even 40 minutes of very loud Helstar!
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Really good luck with the 90% resale on anything audio, much less a "fringe" brand. You come on an Odyssey forum and ask for advice and then pay no attention to what anybody tells you so I don't know if any of us can help you. Just make a decision any decision and move on this has been going on for over a year. Good luck!
Really good luck with the 90% resale on anything audio, much less a "fringe" brand. You come on an Odyssey forum and ask for advice and then pay no attention to what anybody tells you so I don't know if any of us can help you. Just make a decision any decision and move on this has been going on for over a year. Good luck!
I pay attention, and greatly appreciate what everyone tells me.
I have searched, sites, resellers, for gear, thoughts, etc etc. and still my gut tells me odyssey.
Then, I re read the magtech reviews, and I'm right back where I started.
I won't sell my sunfire, as no amp I have every owned before or after comes even close to its clarity/infinite power capabilities. I remember the sunfire at the stereo shop I pretty much lived at years and years ago, even before I owned mine, they ran it in comparisons with some huge Names, krell, macintosh, classe, pass labs to name a few. Killer high end audio shop, and one of the employees bought the sunfire, ebrought it in to see if it was "really" as good as the specs said. Well it was, and it did outclass some huge watt amps by numerous very high quality brands, so I had it on my to buy list. It is amazing.
I would love to sell my emotiva ones.
If I get the odysseys, they can only be used on the rc-70's then, as they sound way superior to the vega's anyway, and the energy's don't get played mega loud anyway, their much to nice to beat on. Oh boy................
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I've said it before, but I don't think headroom will be a problem with either of these amps. Hell it may not be a problem with many 30 watt amps. Honestly, you seem too caught up on amps and power. An Aleph 30 could be a great match for those speakers. Lots of folks love that pure Class A. Unless your listening room is a ballroom...
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An Aleph 30 could be a great match for those speakers. Lots of folks love that pure Class A. Unless your listening room is a ballroom...
Great suggestion Roscoe! There's one for sale on US Audio Mart right now for $1200
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Oh my god please... Energy speakers? The last time I heard they meant for home theater. Odyssey speakers have better bass, better midrange (liquidity, emotion, imaging) and way better on the high with the beryllium tweeters. I have own bunch of carver built amps, and including 2 tubes amps from carver with his autograph specially built for me. But still not even close to what odyssey kis mets can perform. You like it you buy it . Stop wasting time and If you are in the LA area, welcome to come audition my Complete odyssey setup along with the new Liquid speakers.
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Oh my god please... Energy speakers? The last time I heard they meant for home theater. Odyssey speakers have better bass, better midrange (liquidity, emotion, imaging) and way better on the high with the beryllium tweeters.
Ouch, dude. It took me 8 years to get energy rc-70's, and I absolutely love them. You can dangle a pair of Wilson watt's in my face, and I may trade, but will sell the wilsons and buy 2 pairs of energy rc-70's, and a new CD player with the money. I really dislike bright speakers, which is why my jaw hurt, and I was very queasy, anxious, nervous for so long, my speakers, except the d-9's.
The BIC dv series, dv84's, were so bright, I honestly didn't realize it until I hooked up my rc-70's, and so much treble was gone, I thought they were broken, but both the speakers and I needed to be broken in. The new warmer sound of this speaker is absolutely phenomenal. They aren't really broken in yet, as my time spend listening is narrow due to my work schedule. But wanted you to know how much I THOUREGHLY ENJOY THESE SPEAKERS :)
For starters, I have only fell asleep with my D-9's when playing music, as they are not bright, or fatiguing, the BIC DV-84's I have n ever slept on the couch with them playing, sure at low volumes they are as accurate as all be, but when turned up, t hats when the torture started, and I didn't even realize it. The night of getting the rc-70's, I put the iPod on shuffle, and the wife said within 40 minutes, of playing music, she came out to the front room, and there I was, sawing logs on the couch, she was amazed, and so was I as she let the music play and me sleep, I ended waking up on the couch at 6 am, refreshed as get all, while that sweet sound still playing in the background.
I am sure klaus's speakers are superb, and do best mine in many ways, but,I already have my liquids, or rivers speakers. Cheers.
\m/
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bump
So? Any decisions Arcticdeth? I plan on ordering a pair for myself. I trust JackD's ears and know he tells the truth. I also know others who have owned Magtech and sold them. Usually people only sell Odyssey to buy a newer/better model.
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Joe
This saga has been going on forever and probably will not end anytime soon. PM me and we can discuss how to get you where you want to go.
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Joe
This saga has been going on forever and probably will not end anytime soon. PM me and we can discuss how to get you where you want to go.
Can I get a shout out from the Amen Corner? Thanks JackD!
And still good advice from Eugene2:
" Based on your earlier comments I would go for one of Klaus' high current stereo amps upgrade to 180000 uf (still overkill) and use the extra money to buy an Oppo DVD and Klaus extremely good Candela preamp or put the money into a DSP Antimode room correction for 1200.00 which is a Dac, preamp room correction all in one. Now you can go and blow your load on the amps you have been discussing for four pages or listen to some of my or other very good suggestions people have given you, which will give you much better sound."
Cheerio,
KP
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Joe
This saga has been going on forever and probably will not end anytime soon. PM me and we can discuss how to get you where you want to go.
Thank you Jack. Mike is going to see what Klaus has, if anything, at RMAF. We'll talk before the end of the month about what I want.
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I have a pair of Kismet in Khartago case mono blocks being built in Indy right now. I ordered both them and a Mundorf capped 14db gain mkIII version of the Candela all with chrome faceplates. I have a mint matched pair of rare 1958 Amperex Holland script logo 12AU7 longplate D getters with the foil strip that I am going to run in the Candela.
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Congratulations Bunky, great news. Can't wait for your update.
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I have a pair of Kismet in Khartago case mono blocks being built in Indy right now. I ordered both them and a Mundorf capped 14db gain mkIII version of the Candela all with chrome faceplates. I have a mint matched pair of rare 1958 Amperex Holland script logo 12AU7 longplate D getters with the foil strip that I am going to run in the Candela.
Bunky, Did you upgrade RCA jacks, or any other option in your Kismets?
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I have a pair of Kismet in Khartago case mono blocks being built in Indy right now. I ordered both them and a Mundorf capped 14db gain mkIII version of the Candela all with chrome faceplates. I have a mint matched pair of rare 1958 Amperex Holland script logo 12AU7 longplate D getters with the foil strip that I am going to run in the Candela.
Nice Bunky!
Does Klaus recommend the Mundorfs with the Candela or does he let you choose any cap that fits?
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Bunky, Did you upgrade RCA jacks, or any other option in your Kismets?
I talked to Klaus and he recommended the WBT Nextgens so that is what I am getting.
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Nice Bunky!
Does Klaus recommend the Mundorfs with the Candela or does he let you choose any cap that fits?
I had a long conversation about the Candela with its designer AlexG at the 2015 Capital Audio Fest. I used to own a Candela and in fact I was the first one to get a Candela with a remote volume control. unfortunately I lost the Candela in a house fire along with a bunch of other gear. Alex has tweaked and improved the design over time lowering the gain from the original 18db to 14db and he has also experimented with various capacitors and he says that he prefers the Mundorfs in the current version.
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Just talked with klaus. After the new year, I should be getting the ball rolling on a pair similar to tommy two tones monos, I'm stoked!