[Badd99]

Hey everyone,

I've just returned from an amazing weekend at AXPONA 2023 in Chicago! I spent my days hustling from room to room, taking in the sounds of over 75 different audio setups. While none of the rooms had perfect treatment, I was still impressed by the high-quality equipment. Most of the rooms boasted equipment worth over $100,000, and a few of them even had audio chains worth over $1 million!

As excited as I was to attend AXPONA, I must admit that I was a bit apprehensive about the experience. I've always believed that my own listening room sounds incredible, but I'd never had the chance to listen to such expensive equipment before. How would my own system compare to a $1 million setup?

After three days of listening to one incredible system after another, it's easy to become jaded. Rooms that would normally sound amazing can seem average in comparison to the truly exceptional systems. However, around five of the rooms at AXPONA were truly special and stood out in my mind as systems that I would happily purchase for myself today (if the cost wasn't an object.)

But after the long drive back home, I was eager to test my own system again. I headed downstairs to my own listening room and queued up "The Peppery Man" by Natalie Merchant, a beautifully recorded song that I highly recommend to anyone. As the music started, I was blown away. Without any bias, I can honestly say that my own system sounded as good, and better in ways, then the very best I had heard at the show. The imaging, depth of sound, and bass slam were all exceptional. The human voice was crystal clear, and I couldn't help but smile.

While a few of the rooms I visited at AXPONA made me feel this way, none of them came close to my own listening room. Of course, it's not just my NX-Otica's and stereo triple servo subs that make my system sound so great. To be fair, my room is not just the speakers, but they have a tremendous roll in the sound. I've spent countless hours optimizing every aspect of the system, from the cables to the vibration control to the power supply. Each step of the process has helped me refine my system and achieve the level of performance I enjoy today.

If you offered me a trade for any of the rooms I visited at AXPONA, I wouldn't hesitate to say no. Sure, I take great pride in my DIY system and there can be some bias there, but offer me a trade for a Ferrari for my DIY upgraded car and I'll say YES YES YES.

I'd like to take a moment to congratulate and thank Danny for all of his incredible contributions to the audio field. It's thanks to his products that I've been able to achieve such jaw dropping performance with a small - relative - total investment of around $40,000. I'll put my own system up against any $1 million setup out there! I know can say that with certainty. The only negative of my room is I don't get as wide of a sound stage, even with diffusion, as some of the rooms. However, that really has more to do with the room size and there were some massive 30+ ft wide rooms. These box speakers had the width, but they did not have the depth. My system sounds so "real" with the full width and depth that it makes a more enjoyable listening experience to me. It sounds more like real musicians playing in front of me.

Finally, I want to let you know that I recorded almost every room I visited at AXPONA using my handheld dual condenser R/L microphone. I recorded in the sweet spot 95% of the time, and all recordings were made at 24bit/96khz. While I know that this isn't exactly the same as being in the room yourself, I plan to upload some YouTube videos in the near future that will give you a taste of these systems. I will edit in the setup there and then my system playing it, recorded with the same device with matched gain settings for fun.

Here is my room for reference. I built and finished the entire room myself as well. It was a dark dingy basement with concrete walls before I started this. I spent 26 months in between working 60-80 hours of my residency. I am now a Cardiology fellow and continue to put any spare moment I have into upgrading my system.

[hawkeyejw]

Great post! And beautiful room, I’m not surprised to hear that it compares favorably to what you heard at AXPONA.

What are the side wall treatments you have there?

[seikosha]

That’s a great looking room.  I’m a big believer in the room/set up being the most important part of a true high end setup so it’s not surprising to me that your room sounded as good or better than anything at a show.  When I look at people’s systems, it’s never the Ultra High end components that get me jealous, it’s the rooms.  I’m definitely jealous! 😉

[Jaytor]

Thanks for the report and nice room!  What are you using to drive your NX-Oticas?

I just discovered "The Peppery Man" a couple weeks ago. Great song!

[borism]

Great room set-up!

The only counter argument that I have heard about ones own system sounding better than some well set-up show systems is a bias because one has created the sound one prefers.

[Badd99]

Great post! And beautiful room, I’m not surprised to hear that it compares favorably to what you heard at AXPONA.

What are the side wall treatments you have there?

DIY QD7 diffusers sitting on custom DIY absorption units (in part to raise to the diffusers up and in part to absorb low frequency with 8" of Owens corning sound & fire mineral wool - great stuff!) I put this in the absorption panels above the speakers and above my listening chair (not pictured.) I also used in in the entire room, in all the ceilings 6" and 3" behind all the walls.

Thanks for the report and nice room!  What are you using to drive your NX-Oticas?

I just discovered "The Peppery Man" a couple weeks ago. Great song!

Thank you! I am using a JBL Synthesis S7165 amp. I have 5 of the 7 amp modules unplugged and each remaining is on its own MASSIVE Toroidal. Dual mono unit minus a shared incoming power cord. This amp really sounds amazing. I have some DIY Folsom's in progress, will see how they compare.

That’s a great looking room.  I’m a big believer in the room/set up being the most important part of a true high end setup so it’s not surprising to me that your room sounded as good or better than anything at a show.  When I look at people’s systems, it’s never the Ultra High end components that get me jealous, it’s the rooms.  I’m definitely jealous! 😉

Thank you for your comment!

[Badd99]

Great room set-up!

The only counter argument that I have heard about ones own system sounding better than some well set-up show systems is a bias because one has created the sound one prefers.

This can be a contributor, for sure. However, I REALLY tried to go into this all without any bias. I tried my very best to be purely objective. My friend also came with me who has no skin in the game and also found my room to be absolutely in the very top echelon of the crop rooms. When I asked him to compare after we got back and listened, I did say absolutely no bs say what you think, and he is that kind of person. He has pointed out things in my room before now he did not like, which I appreciated and worked to fix.

I had a hard time finding a room that didn't sound like speakers, ironic as that is. The rooms that didn't sound like speakers were pretty special. The number of rooms I felt had a 3D depth to the sound was quite few, however. I find without depth the sound might be massive on the horizontal plane, but lacks that truly "real" feeling you get when you hear both together (horizontal and depth in the sound stage.)

[HAL]

A big difference between AXPONA rooms and yours is the room acoustic treatments. 

The rooms at shows that sound the best are treated ones.  Some companies do, some do not.  I am there for the system sound quality, not the room acoustics of that room.

I am a believer in an acoustically treated room for listening or home theater.  People into asthetics may or may not ever hear what their system is really capable of depending on their room.  Unless designed that way, probably not.

[hawkeyejw]

This can be a contributor, for sure. However, I REALLY tried to go into this all without any bias. I tried my very best to be purely objective. My friend also came with me who has no skin in the game and also found my room to be absolutely in the very top echelon of the crop rooms. When I asked him to compare after we got back and listened, I did say absolutely no bs say what you think, and he is that kind of person. He has pointed out things in my room before now he did not like, which I appreciated and worked to fix.

I had a hard time finding a room that didn't sound like speakers, ironic as that is. The rooms that didn't sound like speakers were pretty special. The number of rooms I felt had a 3D depth to the sound was quite few, however. I find without depth the sound might be massive on the horizontal plane, but lacks that truly "real" feeling you get when you hear both together (horizontal and depth in the sound stage.)

I have no doubt your observations are fair. Most of the rooms at those shows are pretty poorly set up honestly.

I also was disappointed at FLAX that there weren’t more open baffle designs. Were there any at AXPONA? How about the MBL room, did you have a chance to go in there? Their room was amazing at FLAX, sound unlike anything else at the show. No matter where you walked in the room it sounded like live music playing in there. I didn’t get a chance to sit in the sweet spot to see if they image though.

[Badd99]

I have no doubt your observations are fair. Most of the rooms at those shows are pretty poorly set up honestly.

I also was disappointed at FLAX that there weren’t more open baffle designs. Were there any at AXPONA? How about the MBL room, did you have a chance to go in there? Their room was amazing at FLAX, sound unlike anything else at the show. No matter where you walked in the room it sounded like live music playing in there. I didn’t get a chance to sit in the sweet spot to see if they image though.

Yes, Actually MBL was one of my favorite rooms. Made the Top 5 for sure. The only weakness was there was no sub-bass, but the omni-directional speaker sounded VERY much like an open baffle. I was in the sweet spot here.





There were definitely open baffle at the show and they all sounded really good - FAR more than the price of the system compared to the other box speakers I heard. Some very interesting speakers, like this one was hella impressive with the woofer doing 80hz down with dsp, the full range rice paper driver doing 80-15khz, and the super tweeter going from 15-20+khz. These sounded great without room treatment even!

[Tyson]

It’s hard to get a box speaker to sound good in a room because of physics.  Bass in particular tend to be really ornery unless you do something extraordinary like have a swarm of subs. 

[corndog71]

I was there too and came away with a similar impression.  My Super 7s sounded every bit as good as the car-priced speakers. 

I always love the MBLs.  They usually shine at Axpona and this year was no different.  But I’ve also heard them at a dealer many years ago and they sounded detailed but lifeless.  The room and associated gear make a big difference.

The Mofi Sourcepoint 10 was one of my favorites at the show.  And more realistically priced.

The new Zu speakers sounded better than I expected and the Kimber Kable demo of switching between their 8PR and Carbon 18 was successfully done.  While they were better, the Carbon cables are in my opinion still ridiculously priced.  They make Iconoclast cables seem like a real bargain.

I was disappointed by the CSS Tythons.  It could’ve been the room or the choice of crossover caps or the electronics but they had a glare to the sound that was very distracting.  My X-Statiks sound way better for a lot less money.

Overall it was a good show.  A lot of rooms had no room treatment which definitely affected the performances.  But even a few rooms that did have it suffered to some degree.  And one or two rooms sounded amazing despite not having room treatments.  In the end it made me very happy with my current system and I agree Danny’s work punches way above the cost.

[hawkeyejw]

Live edge slab open baffle, interesting concept!

I’m currently listening to my brand new Spurcepoint 10s after being so impressed with them at FLAX that I ordered a pair on the spot. After walking through so many rooms with over $100k of gear and feeling meh about them, it was really refreshing to walk into Andrew’s room and hear something exciting for less than $10k for the entire room. Need to do some work on placement and room but so far I like them a lot, especially for the money. At some point I will get time to finish my NX Studio kit so I can do some comparison. Also going to compare to my X-Statics when I have a chance.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I've yet to go to an audio show, but a lot of what I hear is typically echoed here.

Where some rooms are better than others with many rooms completely untreated.
With many high-end systems sounding bright/harsh/fatiguing, which is a shame considering they're supposed there to put their best foot forward. But hey, what do I know? 

Kind of a shame, but I'm not that surprised either.
I know LSAF is coming soon, so I'll probably hit that up.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I've yet to go to an audio show, but a lot of what I hear is typically echoed here.

Where some rooms are better than others with many rooms completely untreated.
With many high-end systems sounding bright/harsh/fatiguing, which is a shame considering they're supposed there to put their best foot forward. But hey, what do I know? 

Kind of a shame, but I'm not that surprised either.
I know LSAF is coming soon, so I'll probably hit that up.

There are still a lot of really great sounding rooms at the shows.  I was blown away at Axpona a few years ago in the Bricasti-Tidal speaker room and the Vinni Rossi-Harbeth room.   Both were tops in the show.  And again at RMAF in the Fyne Audio room with the 702 speakers at their debut and they were not even broken in with 5 hours on the speakers.  Also the Boulder room with over $250K of gear and their REL sub stacks as well as every room that had Dali speakers and there were several.  I gained a new respect for Dali speakers that show. The Wharfedale-Primare room with the debut of the Evo speakers was fabulous.  My son ended up buying a pair of the Evo 4.4's. The Brytson room was also very good with their own speakers.

Of course, there are some terrible sounding rooms like the Martin Logan Neolith speakers (should be called goliath speakers for how large they are) and Mac gear in a tiny room.  They sounded awful but in the right room I am sure they would have been spectacular.  Same for a Golden Ear room.  We walked in and right out.

However,  it is nice to see what is out there and what is coming down the pike.

[Edward4]

Hi I have a question about "what is possible" with sound systems for under say $20k. I live in a rural area and I've never been to a "show" or even a "showroom" or listened to a friend's system. I simply don't know what a high-end system is capable of doing!

Earlier this year I upgraded my sound system from maybe a $1200 system to maybe a $12,000 system. It sounds way better now, but if I try to play a Bach cantata -- something with a large orchestra + choir singing together -- I noticed a few days ago that it sounds absolutely nothing like a real, live performance. I suspect this is due to my bookshelf speakers, but it could also be due to my elliptical stylus having limitations, or just the limitation of vinyl recordings in general, or maybe I need to add more vibration absorbers, or who knows what. Could be lots of things, right? Everything in the signal path, and even outside it, can probably cause problems if not done right.

This week I'm in the process of building some NX-Otica speakers that I purchased earlier this year. I'm thinking of trying to add some upgrades to the crossover, per Badd99's comments in another thread. But I just realized I don't even know what is possible with a high-end sound system.

My old $1200 system sounded kinda awful with piano music. My current $12,000 system sounds much more lifelike with piano, but it still sounds kinda awful with large orchestras. Can this be overcome, if I upgrade the speakers, and find and fix any other limitations in the system?

(Not sure if I'm posting this in the right place...?)

[JLM]

First, review your listening space.  Hopefully it's not small or squarish.  Insulation is valuable. 

Second,  size your speakers for the room (don't overload the room).  Small speakers have a hard time sounding big or filling the room. 

Third, try a modern digital source that will have more dynamic range. 

[Tyson]

NX-Otica's will definitely scale in a way that slim towers or bookshelf sized speakers cannot.  I think you will see a big jump in things like choruses and large scale orchestral music.  This is the main reason I only ever own large speaker systems nowadays. 

Get them well away from the walls if you can.  3 feet is OK.  5 feet is good.  8 feet (or more) is best, IME.

[Edward4]

Thank you for your replies. Yes, I am hoping the NX-Otica, with better tweeter & more drivers will be better at producing complex sounds. It's kind of a miracle that little wiggling drivers can reproduce music at all.

I just find it funny that when people write reviews of music equipment, they hardly ever seem to say things like "okay, piano is 5 times harder to reproduce than a violin or a saxophone, but a large orchestra is 20 times harder to reproduce than a piano. So we tested this setup with the following types of music..." A $1 million sound system might sound worse than a $5k sound system, if they play easy, simple sounds on one system and complex sounds on the other, maybe. But I'm just guessing here.

Can you imagine if you were in charge of paying salaries for a large orchestra, and you're like, why do we need this many musicians? Can't we produce the same sound with fewer instruments? I have a budget to meet! And the conductor is like, no, it doesn't work that way...

[Tyson]

This is one reason I use music like the opening of the Mahler 5th or Brahms' German Requiem.  If a system can reproduce things at that level of complexity and keep everything sorted when all hell is breaking loose, then it might be worth owning. 

Most of the systems that are good at it are big.  Large planar speakers, line arrays, multi-driver OB systems like the NX series, etc... One thing I like about the GR Research offerings is that they scale up as well as any system out there, but on the other end of the spectrum, they scale down and do intimate music quite a bit better than the other large systems I've heard.  That makes them rather special.