AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: 1oldguy on 22 Jun 2009, 01:35 am
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Well as I mentioned in a previous post was that soon I will be moving.What I didn't mention is that this move really came out of the blue and had no other option.Nuff said about that part.
SO at the end of the story Is that I really won't have the Room for 5.1.Nor is the situation going to be much better for a long time.At least a year.
I have a full set of B&W 800 series speakers as well as 5 of the Bryston amps along with the Bryston BCD Player.
Been thinking that as much as I don't want to,I may end up just doing 2 channel audio.Which would mean selling gear of which even I haven't even heard yet and some of which I haven't even seen such as my Bryston amps.I only wish that if this unexpected move at come sooner I would have bought a pair of 28B and saved myself much hardship.But such is life.If I do indeed go with 2 channel audio I have 3 7B's SQ that I would have to sell that are not even opened yet.
Then there is the 803D's and HtM2D with matching stand and AWS8555 Sub that would have to go.I would keep the 802D's.
I've invested 4 years work to get this far.To say I have a case of bad luck is really an understatement.
Anyone interested in my gear are of course welcome to ask away.
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Before you sell your stuff, consider a multi-channel stereo setup. You can see my setup in the Gallery or Home theater, MC circle.
I've been contemplating getting either a 3B or 4B sst/2. A 7B 2 is more than I need or can afford. So not sure I can help you out.
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That's a tough one. I suppose you could sell your extra equipment. I mean everything is like brand new, correct?
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Hi,
Without wanting to go into your personal life.....
I will assume that you are moving to a smaller location, BUT that you have bought and CAN afford all the kit....
So here is what I would do.
KEEP IT ALL....Run a stereo system to fit the space.
Use the 802D as main stereo pair. Bi Amp them - That uses four of your 7B's.
Then......
Use B&W centre with one 7B If you can fit it in, that leaves the 803D's to store for another day, or connect to a TV/Radio in another room ???
For films the center ch is the most important in my opinion,
This will give you amazing stereo and film use.
IF you need to realise some capital back then sell the B&W center and rears, run a pair of 7B on the 802. Sell the other 3 7B SST2
PS - I know a good home for 7B SST 2 :drool: :drool: :drool:
Hope you find that of help, Andy.
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PS - I just checked out the B&W800 series brochure......
64 pages long.
PLEASE check out page 24............B&W DM70 continentals....The start of B&W......I have 2 pairs of em :D . One very rare built for $ony pair.
Put a smile on my face, THANK YOU.
Andy.
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HI
Yes all gear is new......So new in fact it hasn't been hooked up once.
All the gear I have is paid for in full.As for what I can afford, all that's left for me to buy is a preamplifier,or course I can only buy 1 and that either has to be strictly 2 Channel or the SP3.I guess If I keep the gear the sp3 would serve the purpose of not having to buy a pre in the future.BUT......I am open to ideas here as well.
Also being new to all this, I was unaware I could use my center for strictly music.Have any tried that here,what were the results,Benefits,observations?
I Do like the idea of having more than 1 system.At least I could keep my shirt as they say.Really hate the idea of losing money on gear I haven't even used to be honest.
The Idea of using (2) 7B's on a 802 sounds interesting.Has anyone here used BY-Amped with a couple of 7".Impressions,observations?
Thanks for your help thus far.The last thing I want to do is rush into and make a rash decision so your help is really helpful.
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My PMC MB2 speakers are about to become bi amped with 7B SST's
My current stereo is Tri Amped, That really is overkill as Bi Amp would be fine.
DONT worry about the power being too much - Thats the wrong consderation.
For domestic use you will never run your speakers that hard......
The beauty of the 7 (14,28) is the amount of reserve power available.
These high power amps also have a much quicker transient response (my opinion) and so the leading edge of each note is better reproduced, this can be heard as increased detail in the audio image.
For music I always find stereo is the best option - As that is how it was recorded
There are 5ch audio recordings from SACD and HD DVD and Blu Ray (I never tried DVDA).
The reason to KEEP the center is that if you watch a FILM the dialogue is mainly in the center ch.
As you own this kit you can try and see what you think...........I will ONLY tell you about things I have tried and so have first hand info........
I would think with the future digital sources that the SP3 would suit you more than the BP26..........
IF you decide to run ONLY stereo then the BP26 is better suited.
Hope thats of help
Andy.
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Thanks for the Reply
As for DVD audio and SACD it's not something that's big on my list simply because of funds.Those disks cost a small fortune compared to regular CD's.Plus they would have to all be ordered here where I live add to that the poor selection of titles and it just seems like a frustration.On top of the fact that I just bought the Bryston CD player becasue I really do like plain 2 channel audio.I do admit I am interested in using a center though to see how that works for regular CD's.I assume this is possible?Maybe someone could explain how to go about using a center with regular CD's.
Wondering if anyone has used there regular 2 Channel audio system for their T.V,and with what results positive or negative.
As a side note I just jot back from my dealer.I used a portion of credit and bought the Pioneer 09Fd that had been on order for quite some time.My impression was it is the player to won.It made even a mid priced T.V look really good.
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Hi,
My Tri amp system is used EVERY DAY as my main TV speakers.....
I am in the UK, so "normal" digital TV from aerial.
I run digital coaxial from the TV channel selection box (BT Vision UK) into a DAC and then onto the speakers.....
NORMAL 2ch music played on front left,center,right is not that good........
The center is "made up" from the L&R, And for me does not work well......
Stick with true Stereo, Use the center if you are watching a film.
Thats just my take on it all.
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Hi,
I have a 5.1 system using a Rotel surround sound receiver as preamp, which is how I am able to add a center speaker to the mix if I want.
For 2-channel stereo music, I find that I prefer standard stereo playback with only the left and right front speakers. When I enable the center channel, I find it takes away from the soundstage and overall presentation.
For stereo TV, I prefer to use the center speaker as it anchors the dialogue to the screen. If I am sitting dead center, the difference is not great. But for anyone sitting on either end of the couch (or further), the dialogue appears not to come from the center.
Obviously for Dolby Digital or DTS movies/TV, I use the 5.1 setup, as the sound was recorded and mixed for these formats, and sounds natural.
I don't have any multi-channel SACD or DVD-A, so I can't comment on multi-channel music. But for regular stereo music, all other modes other than 2 channel stereo sounds unnatural to me.
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Again I thank you for your feedback.
I will stick with 2 Channel for my audio purposes.Thanks Guys.
The T.V I had ....and Returned, had the best sound bar non I have ever heard in a T.V.But because of eye strain it had to go back.One other Family member also experienced eye strain.The T.V that I saw today however was good but the sound was terrible so I will have to use my speakers with any T.V other than what I just returned.
May seem like a silly question but I take it when it comes to Movies I will need at least a 5.1 preamp to have the ability to use my center during a movie?I just need a little advice here as to options regarding a center channel.
As for strict T.V or cable I am not concerned so much as I am much more Music/Movie oriented.I watch little T.V.
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A 5.1 preamp or surround processor will be your best solution. There might be other schemes to get a left + right summed mono signal for the center, but that's not what Dolby Digital & DTS offer. The center channel is a discrete channel.
My (and your) concern, though, is getting a unit that is the sonic quality of your other exceptional gear, particularly for your 2 channel music.
If you can't budget a top of the line surround processor (like the Bryston SP series or equivalent) and don't mind an extra box, you could also consider a nice 2 channel preamp with a Home Theatre pass through input in conjunction with a less expensive surround processor or reciever with pre-outs.
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Wondering if Brystons own BP26 have the necessary,"Home Theater pass through input in conjunction with a less expensive surround processor or receiver with pre-outs" required to do as your talking about.?
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Unfortunately, the BP26 appears to not have the HT bypass input, although the BP16 does.
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I Take it the BP16 is no where near what the BP26 is in regard to 2 channel audio?
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No experience with either, but probably not. The BP26 is Bryston's statement preamp with separate power supply and I would imagine even more refined circuitry. I am also guessing that the BP26 is an older design than the BP16, which would explain the lack of the input.
To James, Bryston and EVERY other manufacturer of preamps and integrated amplifiers:
The HT bypass input is a must-have feature in this day and age. Most 2 channel enthusiasts are also interested in multi-channel movie sound to some degree.
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I Take it the BP16 is no where near what the BP26 is in regard to 2 channel audio?
This question comes up a lot and the answer is that ALL the Bryston preamps have the same 'gain' stage so it becomes a choice of 'features' required not 'performance'. It is not a 'better-best' choice.
james
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Well things are becoming clearer as to my options which is great.Though now I now that I would want HT Bypass as well given the choice.
Curious as to the pricing for the BP 16 and the BP26 in Canadian funds if possible?
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BP-26 Preamplifier $2,495.00
MPS-2 Power Supply Power Supply $1,400.00
Total- $3,895.00
BP-16 Preamplifier $2,995.00
BP-6 Preamplifier $1,995.00
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James ...Thank-You
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Well, it's clearer to 1oldguy, but now I think I'm a little confused!
It seems that the BP-16 may have MORE features than the BP26?
I assume the only reason for a separate power supply would be for the sound, as I couldn't call it a feature.
From your website: "Bryston's BP26 series preamplifiers offer a significant step forward in capturing the subtleties, nuances and emotions of recorded music."
But it sounds like you are saying that since the gain stages are the same, there would be no difference in sound between the two.
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Ok......Maybe after reading your post things are not so clear.I await with baited breath. :D
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Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you!
But that's one of the alluring things about Bryston gear, beyond the obvious design and build quality. Which is James Tanner's dedication to helping out both prospective buyers and current owners.
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Well no prob since without your insight I wouldn't understand as much as I do at this very moment.So it's all good.
I too am interested in your latest question for James. :thumb:
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HI
Yes all gear is new......So new in fact it hasn't been hooked up once.
All the gear I have is paid for in full.As for what I can afford, all that's left for me to buy is a preamplifier,or course I can only buy 1 and that either has to be strictly 2 Channel or the SP3.I guess If I keep the gear the sp3 would serve the purpose of not having to buy a pre in the future.BUT......I am open to ideas here as well.
Also being new to all this, I was unaware I could use my center for strictly music.Have any tried that here,what were the results,Benefits,observations?
I Do like the idea of having more than 1 system.At least I could keep my shirt as they say.Really hate the idea of losing money on gear I haven't even used to be honest.
The Idea of using (2) 7B's on a 802 sounds interesting.Has anyone here used BY-Amped with a couple of 7".Impressions,observations?
Thanks for your help thus far.The last thing I want to do is rush into and make a rash decision so your help is really helpful.
Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.
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Well, it's clearer to 1oldguy, but now I think I'm a little confused!
It seems that the BP-16 may have MORE features than the BP26?
I assume the only reason for a separate power supply would be for the sound, as I couldn't call it a feature.
From your website: "Bryston's BP26 series preamplifiers offer a significant step forward in capturing the subtleties, nuances and emotions of recorded music."
But it sounds like you are saying that since the gain stages are the same, there would be no difference in sound between the two.
Hi,
The BP26 has balanced discrete circuits on both the inputs and the outputs as well as the separate power supply outboard as you mentioned. So if quality balanced circuits are important to you then the BP26 ... if full remote control and bypass is critical then BP16. If you have only 4 sources and do not need balanced circuits or full remote then the BP6.
james
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Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.
Hi,
RE Bi Amping......
YOUR B&W are "passive" speakers so they hae cross overs inside the speaker cabinet.
ALL you need to do take a signal from LEFT out of preamp into TWO 7B SST, the same with the right, then run speaker cables from one amp to the "LF" from the other amp to "Mid/HF" connections on the rear of the speaker.
YOU MUST REMOVE ANY LINK WIRE OR CONNECTION from the rear of the speaker FIRST - IF you decide to do this post a picture o the rear of the speaker and people can talk you through what to do - OR your dealer will be able to set this up for you.
IF your speakers were active (NO internal cross over) then you would use Bryston 10b - You do NOT need this in YOUR current system.
Hope that clears that bit up for you.
(It is possible to rewire the internals of the speakers to be active, But if you knew how to do that you would not be asking the questions you have......So I have not gone into that)
Andy.
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Wondering if anyone has used there regular 2 Channel audio system for their T.V,and with what results positive or negative.
I use my stereo system in the family room with TV all the time. I have no problem with it. So positive results
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Sorry to hear you are thinking about selling your equipment. Audio gears unlike camera gears have high resale value. :thumb:
What to do or What not to do...take a long walk and think about what you really like. ;)
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Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.
Hi,
RE Bi Amping......
YOUR B&W are "passive" speakers so they hae cross overs inside the speaker cabinet.
ALL you need to do take a signal from LEFT out of preamp into TWO 7B SST, the same with the right, then run speaker cables from one amp to the "LF" from the other amp to "Mid/HF" connections on the rear of the speaker.
YOU MUST REMOVE ANY LINK WIRE OR CONNECTION from the rear of the speaker FIRST - IF you decide to do this post a picture o the rear of the speaker and people can talk you through what to do - OR your dealer will be able to set this up for you.
IF your speakers were active (NO internal cross over) then you would use Bryston 10b - You do NOT need this in YOUR current system.
Hope that clears that bit up for you.
(It is possible to rewire the internals of the speakers to be active, But if you knew how to do that you would not be asking the questions you have......So I have not gone into that)
Andy.
Thanks for the insight.As for rewiring the speakers to make them active I think like you that for my experience is best left alone.
As for the Bi-Amping I am not sure about the wiring in the new place but at least I do like the sound of the idea.
As for as the Bp16 and the BP26 I do admit I am still curious since it's not clear to me if there are sonic differences between the two.Other factors are a phone stage......because at some point I do want to add a record player at least on a modest level.
And I have a feeling I may end up with a DAC for the music I have that needs a little extra shine.I also realize I really prefer a center channel too,for movies at least for me I do want to keep it,so I realize thanks you you all I will need a HT Pass Through.
Of course I could save for the Video-Less version of the SP3 but wonder if that is the way I should go and if for 2 Channel audio if it would be better than the Bp16?Thinking out loud......but thanks to all your help it getting clearer.So If I am veering of into the wrong direction please feel free to say so.I am trying to figure out whats best for the long term,and by that i mean permanently.If I do go for the SP3 then I know I'd never buy another one.But if I went with the BP16 I could get what I guess is considered at least a modest 5.1 pre every few years and my 2 Channel would be a constant.So again your input is invaluable.
As for the long walk I agree.....since it's taken 4 Years of scrimping to get this far.
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Go with the Bryston phono stage, I have one in my BP6, and it's awesome!!
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Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.
Hi,
RE Bi Amping......
YOUR B&W are "passive" speakers so they hae cross overs inside the speaker cabinet.
ALL you need to do take a signal from LEFT out of preamp into TWO 7B SST, the same with the right, then run speaker cables from one amp to the "LF" from the other amp to "Mid/HF" connections on the rear of the speaker.
YOU MUST REMOVE ANY LINK WIRE OR CONNECTION from the rear of the speaker FIRST - IF you decide to do this post a picture o the rear of the speaker and people can talk you through what to do - OR your dealer will be able to set this up for you.
IF your speakers were active (NO internal cross over) then you would use Bryston 10b - You do NOT need this in YOUR current system.
Hope that clears that bit up for you.
(It is possible to rewire the internals of the speakers to be active, But if you knew how to do that you would not be asking the questions you have......So I have not gone into that)
Andy.
Hmm...I thought all you needed was separate amplifiers for each frequency, and an electronic crossover. I never knew you had to change things internally.
Is there any advantage to passive bi-amping?
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The technically superior method is active bi-amping.
PASSIVE bi-amping would be taking the full-range signal from each channel of the preamp, splitting it with a y-connector and sending that full-range signal into separate amplifiers. Then, at the external speaker posts you would remove the jumpers between the woofer and tweeter sections, as you can't connect the outputs of the two amplifiers together.
Each amplifier is still amplifying the full-range signal, which is filtered by the speaker's passive crossover, and obviously the speaker would have to be already bi-wired with two sets of speaker posts wired internally to the woofer and tweeter sections.
ACTIVE bi-amping would be taking the full-range signal from each channel of the preamp, then sending that full-range signal to an electronic crossover. The electronic crossover then sends filtered low and high frequency line-level signals to separate amplifiers.
In this case, you don't want to send the already filtered signals through the speaker's passive crossover, but instead directly to the woofer and tweeter drivers, bypassing the internal passive crossover.
Advantages:
1. Each amplifier now just has to amplify either the high frequencies only or the low frequencies only.
2. You have eliminated the undesireable effects that a passive crossover might present as a load to the amplifier, including power delivery and phase changes to the signal.
3. The electronic crossover is tweakable with fully adjustable control of crossover frequency, slope and phase.
Disadvantages:
1. Cost
2. Complexity
3. Implementation
If the speaker is a 3-way, you could tri-amp with 3 amplifiers or bi-amp with 2 and utilize the internal passive crossover between the midrange and tweeter.
The suggestion to the OP to passively bi-amp was probably made because he already owns the amplifiers and doesn't necessarily want to sell them at this time, not because it would necessarily provide a performance increase relative to the cost of two extra amplifiers.
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Thanks for the info!!!
Well, you wouldn't need a y connector if you have 2 sets of outputs as Bryston preamps do.
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Thanks for the info!!!
Well, you wouldn't need a y connector if you have 2 sets of outputs as Bryston preamps do.
You are correct, sir!
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EDIT - SRB posted whilst I was typing..........
Hi VegasDave,
This is info on Passive & Active Bi Wire & Bi Amping - Not 100% to do with the original post, But I hope of use....
1. The "standard" domestic style speaker will have an internal cross over.
Lets consider a "2 way" system, that has Bass and a High Frequency (HF) driver in one cabinet.
This will usually have one cable from one amplifier channel that drives the entire speaker.
This is the most basic and common speaker type. Known as a Single wire Passive 2 way speaker.
2. The next logical step is to "Bi Wire" the same passive 2 way speaker.
Still using one amp channel two sets of wires are run to the speaker.
One for the HF and one for the bass - This requires the speaker to have FOUR terminals on it designed for "Bi Wire" application, You usually have a link wire or link bar between terminals that needs to be removed for "Bi Wire" use.
The advantage of this over option 1. is the reduction of resistance in the speaker cable. It can also be a step between 1. and 3. as he cable can be adapted fo the next step.
3. The next logical step is to "Bi Amp" the same passive 2 way speaker. This requires two amplifier channels per speaker, One to drive the HF and one for the BASS. The signal from the preamp is split and sent to both amp channels, The link wire/bar is removed from the rear of the speaker, One speaker cable from each amp to either the HF or Bass connection. This type of Bi Amping still uses the internal cross over of the speaker. The advantage is that the amp driving the HF does not have the demand of the bass. This is know as a "Bi Amping a passive speaker"
4. The final option is "Active 2 way Bi Amp" system. This requires an active cross over (Bryston 10B). This is placed in the signal path after the preamp but prior to the amplifiers, This Active cross over now splits the full range signal and sends specific frequencies on to each amplifier. Bass to the Bass amp, HF to the HF amp.
This now means each amp is more efficient and dedicated to specific frequencies.
Each amp is then wired to the specific bass/HF driver of the speaker. The speaker for thisapplication should be an "Active speaker" . An Active speaker has no internal cross over. Fully active systems are usually found in commercial applications where the advantage of a high Sound Pressure Level (SPL) is required. There is still an audio advantage in a fully active system. The removal of the speaker cross over allows a more linear response (frequecy vs Impedance) from the driver and more efficient use of power from the amps
Note 1: The active cross over mentioned in point 4. can have additional controls crossover point, slope, gain, polarity - Thats another topic.
Note 2: ALL Bryston amps have the same gain structure so in a Passive 2 (3,4,5...) way system ANY amp could be used for any "way" of the speaker. The more powerful amplifiers are usually used for the Bass.
PLEASE NOTE : Typed in a hurry! So I will need to go back over and check this reads correctly. I also have some pictures which I will add for clarity. I will put this in its own thread over the weekend asthis may be of use to others, I always meant to do this on other forums I am member/moderator.
All the best,
Andy.
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Hi,
Yes - the mention of Bi Amp in THIS situation was ONLY due to the member already owning the amps and not sure what options were available to him, Or what the future might offer.....
So keeping and using as many as possible seemed the best value for money.
OR take a hit in selling new boxed items.
Keeping 7B's four meant the dealer might consider taking one back , rather than three!
They could be used in future expansion back towards a 5ch system.........
In this thread the we need to consider the situation as well as the products already bought and whats needed.
IF you keep a Left, Center, Right systema and run all five 7B's then you only have the rear speakers left over, If new in box I would ask the dealer if you can part ex them for a processor........
IF you like your films then I would go 5ch processor.
If its stereo then keep four 7B's and the 802D - Sell one 7B and theother other 3 speakers.
For me with that kit list I would keep Left, center, right..........But thats my opinion based on my personal choice.....
Andy.
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Hi.....Things Still pondered.Now know I'm getting old when your quoting myself.
quote:As for as the Bp16 and the BP26 I do admit I am still curious since it's not clear to me if there are sonic differences between the two.
I could save for the Video-Less version of the SP3 but wonder if that is the way I should go and if for 2 Channel audio if it would be better than the Bp16?Thinking out loud......So If I am veering of into the wrong direction please feel free to say so.I am trying to figure out whats best for the long term,and by that I mean permanently.If I do go for the SP3 then I know I'd never buy another one.But if I went with the BP16 I could get what I guess is considered at least a modest 5.1 pre every few years since they do seem to have a somewhat short life and my 2 Channel would be a constant.
Insight gain Through this tread:
Keep the center channel,Movies Only
Want A DAC,
Want a Phone stage
Possibe pasive Bi-Amp
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Onkyo 886 is a cheap fair quality 5.1 processor.......
I could not afford o replace my Lexicon MC12Bv5 with the HD (HDMI)version so I went for the Onkyo.
For cinema use its ok/good - for analogue not so......
BUT I do believe the best way o do 2ch and 5.1 is two seperate systems, in this case space limits that option.
Do you have a Blu Ray player ? for films or will this be via cable/sat?
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I have the Pioneer 09fd for a blue ray player so I won't need video processing.
I would have loved for the Bryston BP26 To have the HT Bypass that was spoken of.Would have gone that route in a heart beat.
My reasoning is that if going for the Sp3 with the 2 channel and the 5.1 together is great and all for those who have the funds to Upgrade but that isn't my situation.I can save to get the sp3 but when the 5.1 format marches on at some point it has to be tossed out.So I guess I find it difficult to see myself getting rid of a perfectly fine 2 channel side to the SP3.Now If the SP3 will have a ht bypass would that solve the problem if I want to use in the future a current stand alone 5.1 hooked up to it for movies?
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I have the Pioneer 09fd for a blue ray player so I won't need video processing.
I would have loved for the Bryston BP26 To have the HT Bypass that was spoken of.Would have gone that route in a heart beat.
My reasoning is that if going for the Sp3 with the 2 channel and the 5.1 together is great and all for those who have the funds to Upgrade but that isn't my situation.I can save to get the sp3 but when the 5.1 format marches on at some point it has to be tossed out.So I guess I find it difficult to see myself getting rid of a perfectly fine 2 channel side to the SP3.Now If the SP3 will have a ht bypass would that solve the problem if I want to use in the future a current stand alone 5.1 hooked up to it for movies?
Hi 1oldguy.
The SP3 will have an analog bypass so using it as the center of a quality 2channel and surround system is it's intended function. I think what some are saying though is if your priority is 2-channel and you want to get started now go with a quality 2 channel preamp, use 4- of the 7B's in a passive biamp mode with your current speakers and let the dust settle for awhile.
james
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Hi James.......Light at the end of the Tunnel after all.It would seem I am almost full circle.Life as you know can sometimes throw you a curve ball you didn't want or expect.Both in my case,throw in some stress and you start to get the picture.
Please forgive the noob in me.But this will help clear things up for me big time.Here Goes.
(1)So an Analog Bypass is the same thing as an HT Bypass? :duh: :oops:
(2)So in the Future when the 5.1 side of the SP3 is out of dated and is Old and Grey as it were.......Will I be able to buy a modest 5.1 with the then "Current" movie formats and use the Bypass in the SP3 to connect it all up and use use that for the movies side of things?
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Hi,
1.No an analog bypass is not the same as a pass-through. A pass-through is just a circuit that allows the incoming stereo signal to be 'passed through' without any gain or changes to a set of stereo outputs. An analog bypass is maintaining a quality analog circuit throughout the preamp or processor that is not touched by any digital circuits.
2. Honestly no one knows as we move forward what becomes obsolete and what does not. In our SP1 and SP1.7 and SP2 we were able to modify the digital boards to accommodate the new digital formats. With the introduction of Dolby HD and DTS Master as well as the need for HDMI no such option was available for the SP3. I do not see the new formats becoming old and grey anytime soon but a pass-through may be something to consider.
james
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Hi James
If it will have an option to hook up a new 5.1 for Movies (When such a need arises,Though I agree it would be a ways away), It would greatly add to the appeal of buying the SP3,knowing I can keep it permanently for my 2 Channel audio.
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Hi 1oldguy,
I do not think I would purchase the SP3 with the idea in mind that when things get old and grey (reminds me of myself these days!) I can get a cheap receiver and use it in combination with the SP3. Much of the cost of the SP3 will be in the digital circuitry required for the new formats and hopefully we willbe able to do modifications to that digital circuitry as things change in the future.
My feeling is that your better off investing in a great stereo setup now and give yourself some time to see where your life takes you and where the surround processors and formats go over the next year or so.
james
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Hjavascript:void(0);i Mad Mr.H(Andy)
You described very well the option that state before every audio-lover( not necessary audiophile).
The conclusions you state are covered by Mr.Tanner, Mr.Creek( owner of Creek Audio and Epos), Vandersteen Audio and many more.
I don't know the reasons which leads some manufacturers to encourage people to go passively multi amplified speakers(horizontal multi amplified). Maybe the profit. The only thing that stops me going vertically multiamplified is that I am not sure the tweeters of my speakers can endure the direct driving by amplifier. The tweeters in active speakers of PMC are larger than in passive speakers. I've made an experiment driving only the tweeters and believe me there is not a lot difference maybe waste of money. If I need a higher SPL I have to buy a bigger( more powerful ) amplifier instead of two or three less powerful ones.Also I would prefer to have something around the price range of my current system made by PMC but unfortunately there isn't. So I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel
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Thank James
Building this system I am coming from the angle that I neither want or like the idea of buying again.So that's why my system is way out there in terms of what I have sacrificed to acquire what I have thus far.I know I will never buy any more amps or speakers even if I make it to a 100 as the saying goes.The premise is to do it right the first time with no buyers remorse.I think I've managed to do at least a decent job of picking out the right gear thus far based on my research.Though I would have done things a little differently If I knew this unexpected moved was going happen.But such is life.
I am curious though and wonder.If I do purchase the BP26, knowing there is no option to connect a 5.1 pre directly to it,is there another way to have it all connected,but independently?and not relying on each other?So when I do want music 2 Channel, I'd fire up the BP26 and when it's movie time,fire up the 5.1 receiver I have at the time?Trying to figure out my limitations and options.Sorry If I sound like a broken Record. :oops: :duh:
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Hjavascript:void(0);i Mad Mr.H(Andy)
You described very well the option that state before every audio-lover( not necessary audiophile).
The conclusions you state are covered by Mr.Tanner, Mr.Creek( owner of Creek Audio and Epos), Vandersteen Audio and many more.
I don't know the reasons which leads some manufacturers to encourage people to go passively multi amplified speakers(horizontal multi amplified). Maybe the profit. The only thing that stops me going vertically multiamplified is that I am not sure the tweeters of my speakers can endure the direct driving by amplifier. The tweeters in active speakers of PMC are larger than in passive speakers. I've made an experiment driving only the tweeters and believe me there is not a lot difference maybe waste of money. If I need a higher SPL I have to buy a bigger( more powerful ) amplifier instead of two or three less powerful ones.Also I would prefer to have something around the price range of my current system made by PMC but unfortunately there isn't. So I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel
Hello
Vertically bi amping puts another crossover in the mix(with a whole mess load of devices set in the signal path.)Horizontally biamping is far more linear(less distortion). However vertically biamping/crossover ime has always been very interesting in with a monitor/sub configuration, to each their own i guess.
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Hi 1oldguy,
What I have in my main sound room is an SP2 hooked up as the surround system and a BP26 hooked up as a Stereo rig. I have 2- sets of 20 foot balanced cables hooked up - one set from the Left/Right XLR outputs on the SP2 and 1 set Left/Right from the BP26 (different colours as I am easily confused). My 28B amps are in the front of the room beside my speakers - see picture.
So when I want to listen to stereo I connect the BP26 cables to the back of the amps and when I want to go surround I disconnect the BP26 cables and connect the SP2 Left/Right XLR outputs to the back of the 28B amps (the Center and Rear/Back speakers are connected to a 9B already from the SP2).
james
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Hi 1oldguy,
What I have in my main sound room is an SP2 hooked up as the surround system and a BP26 hooked up as a Stereo rig. I have 2- sets of 20 foot balanced cables hooked up - one set from the Left/Right XLR outputs on the SP2 and 1 set Left/Right from the BP26. My 28B amps are in the front of the room beside my speakers - see picture.
So when I want to listen to stereo I connect the BP26 cables to the back of the amps and when I want to go surround I disconnect the BP26 cables and connect the SP2 Left/Right XLR outputs to the back of the 28B amps (the Center and Rear/Back speakers are connected to a 9B already from the SP2).
james
Come on James, show us your sp3 prototype you are using..... :).
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Hi werd,
I suppose if a musician have a chance to take a look at our discussion he will be laughting for hours on end.This is just stupid. In poffesional area mixers,EQ, active crossover are the most comman. You will not find a passive speakers or very rarely in studios, concert halls, stations. Just because it is not profi orientated passive speakers are so comman in our homes.
I am frequently asking a friend of mine who adores Dynaudio, why in his car he uses active milti amplifiered drivers and stay single connection in home. He has Dynaudio Countur 3.3 with a single binding post and all profi oriented speakers are ether miltiway connected or multi amplified.
The world around us is not only black and white, there are all other colors.
Maybe for some speakers or amplifers the difference is not so obvious, but there is a difference.
On this subject you can look for John Risch articles and studies.
Daniel
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Hi werd,
I suppose if a musician have a chance to take a look at our discussion he will be laughting for hours on end.This is just stupid. In poffesional area mixers,EQ, active crossover are the most comman. You will not find a passive speakers or very rarely in studios, concert halls, stations. Just because it is not profi orientated passive speakers are so comman in our homes.
I am frequently asking a friend of mine who adores Dynaudio, why in his car he uses active milti amplifiered drivers and stay single connection in home. He has Dynaudio Countur 3.3 with a single binding post and all profi oriented speakers are ether miltiway connected or multi amplified.
The world around us is not only black and white, there are all other colors.
Maybe for some speakers or amplifers the difference is not so obvious, but there is a difference.
On this subject you can look for John Risch articles and studies.
Daniel
Hi Daniel
Aside from around here and other hi-fi sites most musicians i know have the most putrid examples of hifi. I wouldnt rely on a typical musician for insight on hi-fi playback. Incidently active gear is selected in studios out of necessity for engineering multitrack/multi mic recordings and less of a conscious decision over full range studio monitors.
If you want less distortion go horizontal if you want more bass slam you might employ a vertical setup, to each their own.
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Hi Guys,
I'm not getting this :scratch: - what is the difference between horizontal and vertical passive amplification?
james
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I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel
The IB1s-A and IB2s-A are between the AML1 and MB2 :wink: .
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My understanding of the terminology Horizontal vs Vertical would apply to stereo amplifiers, not monoblocks.
Vertical would be using one stereo amp per speaker, using one channel for lows and the other for highs.
Horizontal might use one larger stereo amp for left and right bass, and perhaps a smaller (or tube ?) amp for left and right highs.
Steve
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Hi,
Well im in a mixed up world !!!
I use a 14B SST for the L & R Bass
I then use a 4B SST for Left Mid and Left HF
Another 4B SST for the Right Mid and Right HF
So a mixed up H&V world !!!
The 14B SST will soon be swopped out for a pair of 4B SST running bridge mode......
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I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel
The IB1s-A and IB2s-A are between the AML1 and MB2 :wink: .
Hi Mad,
I could be wrong here but I do not think the IB1's and IB2's are available in Active versions?
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Hi James,
maybe is not correct to say vertical, but this include active crossover and separate amplifier(not always mono block) for every driver(cone).
Daniel
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Well for you Mad Mr H, we may have to coin some new terminology!
Vertizontal Tri-Amping
or
Hortical Tri-Amping
I'm sorry, it does seem this thread is veering off topic. Maybe it should be split into a "Multi-amping" thread.
Steve
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The IB1 and IB2 are activated which means there is a power pack attached near the binding posts.
Daniel
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Hi Daniel,
Yes but Activated really does not mean anything as you're still using a single amp and a passive crossover.
I think PMC coined the phase 'activated' just to indicate the amp was attached rather than on the floor?
james
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Hi James,
I know that activated is not exactly active speakers as there is no active crossover and the amplifier still amplifies the whole frequency band not a part of itlike in AML1 and MB2-A.
Daniel
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I have the Pioneer 09fd for a blue ray player so I won't need video processing.
I can save to get the sp3 but when the 5.1 format marches on at some point it has to be tossed out.So I guess I find it difficult to see myself getting rid of a perfectly fine 2 channel side to the SP3.
Hi,
Let me try and help you a little here.
In the last couple of years the "Digital revolution" has taken massive leaps forwards, BUT along the way has left many of us with kit that has been out dated within months :icon_surprised: .
The war between HD DVD vs Blu Ray is over (Sadly!). So we accept that the future is Blu Ray. The Blu Ray final format is almost there!!! The HD connection "HDMI" has now gone through many changes.
At some point we must draw a line and decide that "this is it" for me, and stick with the main system you have with the occasional addition of a cable here and there........
I would love a 7ch system but just dont have the room.
For you I understand the fear of getting a cinema processor and then the worry that in a year it will need to be replaced.
I really DONT think that is the case.
James has an excellent solution with his dual use single room system.
I bought my current Onkyo 886 cinema pre amp (only) as a cheap fill in.......
Its still got great reviews, and excellent value for money.
I do think your FIRST aim should be to work out if you are going to keep ALL you have already or sell some, IF you sell then you have a larger budget for the pre/pro options......
How "SMALL" is the room you are moving into?
Are you sure there is not room for the full 5ch system you have bought?
Is some of this a panic that you have done the right thing so far?
It might help if you list all the items you are considering in groups of each system,
List what you need to buy and what is spare for each option. AFTER you have done that look at the value you have available for the project.
Not wanting to teach you to suck eggs but another opinion from a different angle often highlights items that had not been considered.
(I design systems for people based on what they currently have, what they really want, and what in reality they can afford. I try and design systems that are a building block towards what the next stage could be.........My work is mainly commercial)
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Sorry for the miss information on the IB1s-A and IB2s-A :duh:
My fault for looking it up quickly !!!
You could always take an IB2 and make it active :icon_twisted:
Like others say - A thread for Active vs Passive is a good idea.........
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Hi,
when the first 5.1 systems brought to life I started to calculate how many movies I have to watch to pay the cost of home cinema and gave up. I dicide to stay 2 ch. as long as I could. Now I paid for 2 ch.five times more than my first calculation for home cinema. Funny isn`t it. But this I found Bryston and PMC and I don`t regrate for a moment at my decision.
Occasionally I have a chance to audition other systems than mine and I honestly can say I don`t like other sound than the sound produced by Bryston/PMC combo.
Daniel
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You have all given me much help .........Thank you all Guys.
Sincerely ......I just need to mull over in the coming days just what is best.
Will be moving on sat ..Not sure as to when I will have internet back.
Again Thank you all.
Brandon
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Hi James
I feel that the SP3 is still the best route in the long run.While having two systems in the one room is not the best for my situation.
So SP3 here I come.
P.S .........I did mention to Dave B that you just may have an older unit kicking around.So if you are still able to help me out we could do it through them and I'd sign for it kind of thing.I figured i'd mention it to Dave so he be aware of it, if you do find something around the factory.
Again ...Thank you for helping an Old Guy out. :green:
P.S ...Will be moving this Sat.So Anytime after that is good,lord willing. :D
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Hi,
Like your new Avatar.
Is the SP3 available ??? The Bryston site only seems to have the SP2.
Old Guy - I think you re doingthe right thing with an SP3 (or similar) unit with your system.
Looking forward to hear how much you can fit in the new room, and which way you go.....There are always options.
Andy.
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I would think that it will be at least 8 months before the SP3 hits the streets if not longer but it will be worth the wait.I've been saving towards this goal for 4 years so the home stretch is in sight.I will go for the Video-Less version and let the Pioneer 09fd take care of the video end of things.My gut instinct tells me the SP3 really is the way to go.Having you all have an input helped me to realize that.Hopefully if the stars align James may find a loaner of some sort. :thumb:
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EDIT - SRB posted whilst I was typing..........
Hi VegasDave,
This is info on Passive & Active Bi Wire & Bi Amping - Not 100% to do with the original post, But I hope of use....
1. The "standard" domestic style speaker will have an internal cross over.
Lets consider a "2 way" system, that has Bass and a High Frequency (HF) driver in one cabinet.
This will usually have one cable from one amplifier channel that drives the entire speaker.
This is the most basic and common speaker type. Known as a Single wire Passive 2 way speaker.
2. The next logical step is to "Bi Wire" the same passive 2 way speaker.
Still using one amp channel two sets of wires are run to the speaker.
One for the HF and one for the bass - This requires the speaker to have FOUR terminals on it designed for "Bi Wire" application, You usually have a link wire or link bar between terminals that needs to be removed for "Bi Wire" use.
The advantage of this over option 1. is the reduction of resistance in the speaker cable. It can also be a step between 1. and 3. as he cable can be adapted fo the next step.
3. The next logical step is to "Bi Amp" the same passive 2 way speaker. This requires two amplifier channels per speaker, One to drive the HF and one for the BASS. The signal from the preamp is split and sent to both amp channels, The link wire/bar is removed from the rear of the speaker, One speaker cable from each amp to either the HF or Bass connection. This type of Bi Amping still uses the internal cross over of the speaker. The advantage is that the amp driving the HF does not have the demand of the bass. This is know as a "Bi Amping a passive speaker"
4. The final option is "Active 2 way Bi Amp" system. This requires an active cross over (Bryston 10B). This is placed in the signal path after the preamp but prior to the amplifiers, This Active cross over now splits the full range signal and sends specific frequencies on to each amplifier. Bass to the Bass amp, HF to the HF amp.
This now means each amp is more efficient and dedicated to specific frequencies.
Each amp is then wired to the specific bass/HF driver of the speaker. The speaker for thisapplication should be an "Active speaker" . An Active speaker has no internal cross over. Fully active systems are usually found in commercial applications where the advantage of a high Sound Pressure Level (SPL) is required. There is still an audio advantage in a fully active system. The removal of the speaker cross over allows a more linear response (frequecy vs Impedance) from the driver and more efficient use of power from the amps
Note 1: The active cross over mentioned in point 4. can have additional controls crossover point, slope, gain, polarity - Thats another topic.
Note 2: ALL Bryston amps have the same gain structure so in a Passive 2 (3,4,5...) way system ANY amp could be used for any "way" of the speaker. The more powerful amplifiers are usually used for the Bass.
PLEASE NOTE : Typed in a hurry! So I will need to go back over and check this reads correctly. I also have some pictures which I will add for clarity. I will put this in its own thread over the weekend asthis may be of use to others, I always meant to do this on other forums I am member/moderator.
All the best,
Andy.
Thanks Andy, that was helpful!
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Hi James
Will the move is in a few hours.........But like the Govenator would say..."I'll be back".
See you all soon. :thumb:
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Any news.......
Have you moved in yet?
Have you moved in and spent the last few days with your new audio system? Dont forget to eat !!!
Waiting to hear if you have been able to shoe horn the entire system into your new space.......
Cant wait to hear from you......
Shout if you need any help in the wire up, Loads o people here to help you.....
Andy.
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Thanks Andy
I just got my internet back up.My speakers and amps will be delivered on Friday.
I did try the cd player on my crap system and I can hear an improvement,so I can only imagine whats it will be like once im up and running.
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Thanks Andy
I just got my internet back up.My speakers and amps will be delivered on Friday.
I did try the cd player on my crap system and I can hear an improvement,so I can only imagine whats it will be like once im up and running.
Welcome back!
james
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Long weekend for you then :D .
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Thanks Andy
I just got my internet back up.My speakers and amps will be delivered on Friday.
I did try the cd player on my crap system and I can hear an improvement,so I can only imagine whats it will be like once im up and running.
Sounds good. I can only imagine how fantastic it's gonna be.
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Well folks I just had my gear delivered.I did open one of the Boxes.I love the look.It's a no frills serious looking amp that's for sure.
I know some people may dig the pretty or fancy type of audio product but I like the brute force/sleek vibe of Bryston.
James......If you do find an old beater to get me through to the SP3 hits the streets I am right here. :thumb:
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Quick question please..
I am using 802D speakers with a single 14B SST. If I were to do a horizontal bi-amp and move the 14B to LF duty only and then add a 4B SST for the HF/Mids how much of an improvement in sound would I realize? Would this be a good match, ie would I have plenty of power/headroom?
TIA
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14/4 SST horizontal passive bi amp :thumb:
Perfect match.......
And very similar to PMC BB5 use........ So yes tere are many system that run this amp line up
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Quick question please..
I am using 802D speakers with a single 14B SST. If I were to do a horizontal bi-amp and move the 14B to LF duty only and then add a 4B SST for the HF/Mids how much of an improvement in sound would I realize? Would this be a good match, ie would I have plenty of power/headroom?
TIA
Sounds wicked!! but i would consider adding the Torus rm-20 (or bigger) first to the 14B, before the 4B/14B biamp config.
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Well folks I just had my gear delivered.I did open one of the Boxes.I love the look.It's a no frills serious looking amp that's for sure.
I know some people may dig the pretty or fancy type of audio product but I like the brute force/sleek vibe of Bryston.
James......If you do find an old beater to get me through to the SP3 hits the streets I am right here. :thumb:
Hi 1oldguy,
How many sources do you have?
james
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Hi James
I have the Cd Player,And the pioneer blue ray player (09FD),Which by the way has the option of either HDMI or RCA outputs for analog 5.1.I would be pleased as punch even if I could listen to 2 channel audio at this point,of course till the masterpiece SP3 comes out.
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If you are looking for a cheap (ish) stopgap unit.......
I currently use a "Logitech Transporter"
This is a DAC with volume control, and plays PC based music, online radio and inputs for AES/EBU, optical, coaxial,
Outputs are balanced or unbalanced
For me this seems to tick a large number of boxes and I do feel reasonable to good quality. I have a spare Lexicon MC12B v5 with room EQ and there is a chance that this will go into the 2ch room - Originally I was thinking of selling it but prices have dropped in non HDMI kit.
Currently I dont have a CD player.
Due to my background I feel room EQ a very important item to have, more and more domestic equipment is now available with this built in.
Food for thought......
But the SP3 does sound like the baby to own.
Andy.
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Hi James
I have the Cd Player,And the pioneer blue ray player (09FD),Which by the way has the option of either HDMI or RCA outputs for analog 5.1.I would be pleased as punch even if I could listen to 2 channel audio at this point,of course till the masterpiece SP3 comes out.
Hi 1oldguy,
OK I have looked around an all we have is a BP25DA preamp Black in a demo room.
james
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Talk about GRAND SERVICE.
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Hi James
Sounds great. aa :drool:As in awesome.
You can have my address or we can go trough West End ......That way I can sign for it.Which ever way is best for you is good for me.
Again thank you for helping an Oldguy out. :wink:
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Hi James
Sounds great. aa :drool:As in awesome.
You can have my address or we can go trough West End ......That way I can sign for it.Which ever way is best for you is good for me.
Again thank you for helping an Oldguy out. :wink:
Yes please call West End and have them contact us.
james
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Hi James
Will get right on it.
I will need to purchase speaker wire and spades.Is there anything else I will need?All I have at the present is the amps and speakers.
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Hi James
Will get right on it.
I will need to purchase speaker wire and spades.Is there anything else I will need?All I have at the present is the amps and speakers.
You will need a set of interconnect cables to go from the Preamp to the Power amp - Can be RCA or Balanced.
james
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Time for some pictures yet ???
Even just the boxes is a good start.......
Andy.
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Downloading my web cam drivers now :D
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20678)
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Good Start......................
Please Sir! Can I have some more?
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HI Andy
There best is yet to come.(Bryan Adams)LOL :wink:
I just need to clear some of the rubble behind me.I'm still getting the place straightened out.
Please remind me not to move like ever.LOL :duh:
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Remember in a move you need twice as much space as you had in the last place.
They take all you had and put in a box, then when you unpack you need space for the box AND contents.........
Unpacking my five PMC MB2's was crazy - even flat packed the boxes are massive.........
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HI Andy
We went from a 3 story 3 bedroom with basement to 1 floor 2 bedroom.The only saving grace is the living room is fairly large considering it's a basement.Plus the gear isn't unpacked yet and your right keeping the boxes does take up quite a bit a space.
Brandon
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HI.....................Brandon
Ah! A name for the old guy :wink:
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aa :green:
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Did you get the BP25?
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It's not here yet but i would imagine it to show up anytime now.I would love for it to show up on friday.Would give me the whole weekend.I have a feeling I won't be doing much else besides listening to music if it gets here by then.
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Yeah, that would be cool. I'd say you're right about that. Bryston is highly addictive.
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HI V
I haven't heard the speakers yet either.I would imagine both to be quite addictive.Truth be told I've loved music since I was very young.Now I finally get to to realize a dream.
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Well, you're in for a treat I'd say. Exactly. Good luck!
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Thanks V for the good wishes.My brother is dreaming of putting on some Rush.As for myself I'm more interested in music in general.That's not to say I don't have people who thrill me.I would imagine Journey to be quite enjoyable.Then there's Al Di Meola,and the Carpenters,which to this day I am amazed at the quality of the recording studio they used.Getting ahead of myself a little tough.LOl
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My word I feel so ashamed....I Forgot to mention Walter Rossi.Trust me guys ...Walter is an incredible artist worthy of any audiophile system.Try his latest ,Secret Sins.Truly a master piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWZleVAzYds
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Thanks V for the good wishes.My brother is dreaming of putting on some Rush.As for myself I'm more interested in music in general.That's not to say I don't have people who trill me.I would imagine Journey to be quite enjoyable.Then there Al Di meola,and the Carpenters,which to this day I am amazed at the quality of their recording studio they used.Getting ahead of myself a little tough.LOl
You're welcome. In my opinion, pretty much all genres of music sound good with Bryston. I can't really say that for other manufacturers' equipment. I've had some dreadful stuff in the past. No names mentioned!
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Looks like my research paid off.From all the reading I did I just had the feeling that "Bryston made the most sense".
Thinking that sounds like a good corporate logo. :thumb:
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Yep. Unfortunately, I did it the hard way. Which is trial and error.
Yeah, that sounds alright!
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Thanks V for the good wishes.My brother is dreaming of putting on some Rush.As for myself I'm more interested in music in general.That's not to say I don't have people who thrill me.I would imagine Journey to be quite enjoyable.Then there's Al Di Meola,and the Carpenters,which to this day I am amazed at the quality of the recording studio they used.Getting ahead of myself a little tough.LOl
Hi Brandon,
I'm a long time Al DiMeola fan dating back to his days with Chick Corea and Return to Forever. In fact his 1980 CD "Splendido Hotel" was the first disc to be played through my new 7B's and BP26P. "Two to Tango and Spanish Eyes" featuring Les Paul will blow your socks off!
Bill
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HI Dyna
I have Splendido Hotel on Vinyl.CD as well come to think of it.Al is in a league all his own.He started when he was 5.It sure paid off starting that young.At the same time There are guitarists like SRV and Clapton and least we forget Hendrix who also have such amazing talent.These HI-FI systems we have I think shine best when the music is complex because only then can you truly hear whats going on.Looking forward to many types of music.But certainly not Rap/Hip hop and all that Jazz.Actually I like Jazz for the record. :green:
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His 2006 release, "Consequences of Chaos" sound great through the Brystons. I have his newest release, "La Melodia" on my list.
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/aldimeola3
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The gear was sent out yesterday so Soon the place will be rockin'. aa
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Any news?
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Just called ....Nothing as of yet.But the day isn't over yet.LOL.
Actually it is supposed to be here by the 6TH so I would imagine if not today then tomorrow for sure.
Should be a good weekend if It gets here. :D
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Waiting for a 3B sst/2, hopefully I'll have it tomorrow.
I've been listening to the music I plan on testing it with so I can hear if there is a noticeable change right away. I'm hoping it will smooth the highs. Mind you I have the equalizer on my AV receiver set to fronts, which give the highs an edge. Setting it to natural gives a smooth presentation, but it has to have an edge for guitar rock.
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Well the electrician was here.It looks like I may end up with (2) 20 amp lines.I hope so.He has to confirm it with my landlord.This would make my day.After all 5 Brystons,and tv as well as all that other gear really does suck up the juice.
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Well it's official,I now have 2 20 amp lines installed.Also the Gear just arrived at the dealers.And on top of that I get to meet a new woman on the weekend.That's 3 for 3.Can't wait to get her all fired up,The system that is :green:
Review soon to follow.
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1) congrats for the new woman.
2) congrats for the new gear.
al. :thumb:
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1) congrats for the new woman.
2) congrats for the new gear.
In no particular order :lol:
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Hi James
I just got back from my Dealer.Soon off to work so it looks like the weekend before i can get it hooked up.The speaker cables look very good.Looking forward to this weekend I can assure you.
Thank you James
Brandon
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Wondering if anyone here as the 802D? from B&W.The reason i ask is because on the back of the speakers there is a round piece of paper saying to remove before use.The thing is, am I just to tear it off or do I need to unscrew something and then remove?This is located on the back of the marlin head.If I sound like a noob is because I am. :duh:
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Can you post a picture?
GUESSING it is part of the cosmetic packing and check that the unit is NEW......
Andy.
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HI Andy
My digital camera needs repair.I just read the manual and it's not covered in there. :duh:
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Well the speakers are ready.Now i am trying to figure out how to hook it all up.
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Deleted, cross posting.
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Ok......
Start with "source items"
So CD player link that to the preamp, then link to the left/right amp then to ONE speaker per amp channel......
Thats the basic 2ch set up.....
If you post the lit list for those items I will try and help you, its 1am in the uK I really need to sleep but will help if I can...............
Andy.
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Do you have a camera on your phone maybe?
As it says remove it, then I DOUBT you just tear it off......
If it is over the speaker terminals then these usually unscrew for the part away from the speaker.
Dont think me rude here but some of your questions make me feel that you should get the shop to set this ALL up for you, or at least get a friend round who might know more..........
Best to do it once and do it right, Andy.
Good point Mad, my audio guy set up my speakers :D
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Hi Andy....It's stating to make more sense to me now.Your right about getting the shop I think.After I have a read here for the online manual I will have a better idea.At least I would hope so.After I get it hooked up I'll post here what I've done before powering up the mothership.lol
I don't want to keep you up.If your on tomorrow maybe you can help when you've had a good night's sleep.
I do thank you for you willingness to help an old guy.lol
Night Andy
Brandon
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Hope the following is of some help - I need to sleep.......
CD to Pre Amp
Analogue UNBALANCED uses Phono to Phono stereo lead
Analogue BALANCED uses XLR to XLR lead
Digital could use Optical - Fibre optic cable : Coaxial - Phono to Phono lead (onelead only) : AES/EBU - XLR to XLR lead
Pre Amp to Amp
UNBALANCED Phono to Phono
BALANCED XLR to XLR
Amp to speaker
2 core speaker cable, might have Spade , 4mm banana, bare end, Speakon connectors on ends of cables.
Hope thats of general help to you,
Not sure which connector is called what - Please google or ask others,
I must sleep,
Andy.
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ALWAYS fit the POWER CABLES LAST.
Power up the CD player FIRST, then pre amp - VOLUME TO ZERO, then amp.
Just connect one amp and speaker to start.
That's me out......... :sleep:
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Dream of audio gear ....i know i do lol.
Thanks again
ZZZZZZZ
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Well I've unboxed another 7B,don't think i could ever get tired of that.Still have 3 of them tucked away for a later date,unopened of course. :wink:
Just waiting for my brother to give me a hand to unbox the other 802D.
So close. :green:
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Cool. You're getting there!
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Well I've unboxed another 7B,don't think i could ever get tired of that.Still have 3 of them tucked away for a later date,unopened of course. :wink:
Just waiting for my brother to give me a hand to unbox the other 802D.
So close. :green:
oldguy,
it's like birthday, christmas and easter together, right?!
ENJOY!
al.
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Well after all day I finally will get to hook it up.Seeing all the gear out I can see why this so addictive.lol
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Hi James
Wondering if I should leave the amp at 29DB or the lower setting?Considering I'm using the XLR or does that even make a difference?
Al was wondering since I have the pro version would I be correct in assuming it's set to the max?
Thanks
Brandon
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Hi James
Wondering if I should leave the amp at 29DB or the lower setting?Considering I'm using the XLR or does that even make a difference?
Al was wondering since I have the pro version would I be correct in assuming it's set to the max?
Thanks
Brandon
Hi Brandon,
Set the sensitivity switch to 1V
james
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Hi James
Been looking and oddly enough I don't seem to have the option of switching between 1 or 2 volts?
I do see an option between either 29db or 23 db.
I take it I do choose the balanced since I'm using XLR
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Hi James
Been looking and oddly enough I don't seem to have the option of switching between 1 or 2 volts?
I do see an option between either 29db or 23 db.
I take it I do choose the balanced since I'm using XLR
Given your speakers use the 29dB and the Balanced.
james
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Thanks James
I kind of figured that's what I should do.But being new to this I figured why not ask.
It is interesting tough of the subtle difference between the pro and C series.
Back to it I go.
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Well I've run into a little snag as they like to say here on the rock.
One of the Speaker cables on the spade end was made with the bulging part on the opposite side.Therefore preventing me from hooKing it up to the amp.The other cable is fine.
But if I flip it around I can get it to fit ,albeit with the red spade on the black/Negative binding post.I take it as long as I switch the speaker end so that the red is on the black post I should be fine?
To be clear I will have positive with positive and negative with negative.Just that the colors are not corresponding.
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That will work.
james
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Thanks James
Just want to be cautious.
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Hooked it up ,sounded like the speakers weren't getting anywhere near the power they needed.Thin as in transistor radio thin.
Back to the drawing board.
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Well just tried the other set of bindings posts on the speakers and this this all I got was mud.This is odd to say the least.
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Hi Brandon,
If you're not bi-wiring, it sounds like you don't have the jumper in place between the low and high speaker binding posts.
On your hookup to first set of speaker posts, you said transistor radio thin, as if you were only powering the tweeter/midrange.
Then you said you tried the other set of posts and got mud, as if you were powering the woofer only this time.
Could that be it, that the jumpers are not installed (and you're not using bi-wires)?
Steve
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HI SRB
I didn't use them as the guy from tek support from B&W said all I had to do was use one set of binding posts and that was it.I did explain to him that I am new to hi end.I'm just using a left and right for speaker wire.
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:duh:
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Hi Brandon,
Maybe have the dealer come over to have a look- there is obviously something a-miss.
james
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Hi James
I called ...I was told on Monday to call back.I almost smiled when I first heard it.I can't see what can be done to make it any different but I've waited this long I will at least give the guys a chance to solve this.If not It will be for sale very shortly.
If they can't get this worked out i will return the cables with the preamp.
Regardless if the gear works out for me or not I do thank you for helping me out like you have.
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Brandon,
Do you have a set of headphones - if so try them on the preamp.
james
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This system should sound phenomenal, something is definitely amiss - do you notice a difference between the audition and now that you have the equipment at home?
Be well
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Hi
I will go try the headphones.
As for the audition there wasn't any.No-one carries this kind of gear here where I live.So it was a matter of reading reviews which lead me to the gear I now have.
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Haven't been able to find the Headphone connector I need at the moment so still not sure about the sound at least going in to the preamp.
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Well I've used the jumpers.At least now I'm getting the full sound.But I can't say things are good.My old radioshack system was better.So clearly something isn't jiving.Hi end audio has to be better than this.I did hear a 700 series speaker that was much better.
After all i've done to get to this point I just don't get it.If this is has good as it gets then look out for some major audio gear for sale.lol.
Hey Brandon
I'm the guy you were talking to last fall at West End Electronics about the Nautilus speakers (as well, the conversation led to the fact that I was powering my Nautilus 804s with Bryston).
I was contemplating a set of 802s at the time, but I figured they would over-power my 14' by 16' room :wink:
The 7B and the 802s should sound great. I have a 14B powering a set of 804s and it sounds great. I will caveat that with the same thing I mentioned to you last fall, though. Once you get into high-end territory, the system is going to give you exactly what you put into it.
For example, you mention that your old Radio Shack system sounded better. What music are you listening to through the new system? For example, I'm a huge Van Halen fan. I never listen to Van Halen on my system because frankly most of its sounds like crap! Same goes for AC/DC, Rush (a lot of it), etc. That stuff is just not well recorded. I listen to that stuff in the car and on my computer with a set of powered mini-monitors. It just sounds better there. The main system just gives back what's exactly there...mostly thin recordings. On the computer and in the car, the bass in enhanced with distortion, etc, so it sounds fuller.
Now, if you put on something that is well recorded (Alison Krauss comes to mind for me), well, she should sound like she's standing directly between your two speakers and you should be able to hear her breathe :wink:
So assuming you have your system set up correctly now, which should be pretty simple with just a CD player, what music are you listening to? Try something that is superbly recorded and see how things go.
Keith
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Hi 1wiseoldguy
Dont panic here. The good news here is Bryston is extremely neutral gear and can be an extreme shock to the senses at first. it reminds me of those new tv's that you see on display at those box stores. They punch up the temp output to make them look more bright so to get your buying attention. once you get it home these tv's need to be turned down for proper viewing temperature. Bryston is like the tv at home with the temp turned down, it being very neutral sounding. in other words they take time getting used to. Try and keep your system playing at a reasonable volume for a while, like a couple of weeks to get it worked in.
what source are you using right now, just out of curiosity? Also the square series amps will be an excellent match with B@w speaks.
p.s my dam caps are intermittant on this stupid keyboard and i dont always get capital letters... :lol:
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Hi Keith
I listen to a variety of music Jazz,Blues,Rock,Reggae and more.No hip hop or rap though.
If you are in town you are welcome to drop by and hear it.Might be a good to get your impression.P.M me if you like and I'll give you my address if possible with ph number.
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Hi Keith
I listen to a variety of music Jazz,Blues,Rock,Reggae and more.No hip hop or rap though.
If you are in town you are welcome to drop by and hear it.Might be a good to get your impression.P.M me if you like and I'll give you my address if possible with ph number.
Hi Weird
The feeling I have is too lean.I do understand the speakers are brand new along with the amps.
Not sure I feel so wise at this point.I just have to play this out.
Sounds like classic break-in issues. Try playing some reggae, and break those bass drivers in,for awhile but keep your system playing tunes as much as possible. Send a pic of the back of your speaks if you have a chance, i would like to see how you have your speak cable hooked up.
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It wouldn't hurt to double check and make sure the speakers are wired in phase with each other so that you're not getting any low frequency cancellations.
The other question mark is the loaner preamp. Is this a stereo preamp or a surround sound processor? Also maybe try a different input on the unit.
Are you plugged directly into your new circuits, or are you first plugged into some kind of power conditioner which could possibly limit current?
The Bryston amps and CD player are state of the art. While speakers are more subject to personal tastes, many feel the B&W 802s are where the B&W "magic" starts due to the "baffle-less" Marlan midrange housing.
Steve
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Hi Keith
I listen to a variety of music Jazz,Blues,Rock,Reggae and more.No hip hop or rap though.
If you are in town you are welcome to drop by and hear it.Might be a good to get your impression.P.M me if you like and I'll give you my address if possible with ph number.
Hi Weird
The feeling I have is too lean.I do understand the speakers are brand new along with the amps.
Not sure I feel so wise at this point.I just have to play this out.
Brandon
I'm actually out of town this weekend, but will be back in St. John's tomorrow evening. I'll PM you so you can give me your address and contact info. I'll pop by for a listen when I get back. As well, I'll ensure this are set up properly.
However, your comments about 'lean' are pretty much what I would expect you to say. It's the first thing you'll find 'missing' is bottom end or bass. Most time its because its not really on the recordings, like I said earlier. Now what you are hearing is exactly what's there. Now, your gear may still not be working properly or set up properly, but that will need to be checked out.
As far as bass goes, if it's in the recording the new system should have bass like a piston firing a 50-lb bowling ball. It should be fast and not bloated, but potent enough to shake pictures off the wall :wink:
Keith
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Hi Werd
My Digital camera is out of action.Other wise I'd take a pick.
The amp used is a Bryston BP26DA.I am pluged directly into two spanking new 20 amp circuits.
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Hi Keith
I'll send you my ph and address now.I honestly was expecting more power down low.I did try it with the head phones.Got the same impression.
Thank you for helping out.It's good to have someone with more experience than myself actually hear the system.
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Hi Keith
I'll send you my ph and address now.I honestly was expecting more power down low.I did try it with the head phones.Got the same impression.
Thank you for helping out.It's good to have someone with more experience than myself actually hear the system.
We'll have a look see when I get back. I'll bring along a few recordings that I know sound great and we'll give it a spin.
Keith
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Hi wog1
Just sit back and enjoy it. its going to get alot better as time goes on. one thing for sure is the setup you have is going to teach you alot about recordings and highend gear. what it is doing right now is wiping away any misconceptions you had about the caliber of gear you have, and we've all been through this. i mention earlier that its a shocker for many but the gear you have is very neutral. but neutral means very musical and uncolored.
Give it a couple of months and go back to your radio shack stuff and you'll be going :duh: holy smokes is that stuff crap.
p.s make sure your pre isnt set for mono as very often thins out the soundstage, and your pre has a mono switch i believe.
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Hi Werd
I can't seem to find a mono switch on the unit. :duh: :?
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I did try it with the head phones. Got the same impression.
Listening with the headphones and having the same impression (if they are decent full-range phones) takes the amplifiers and speakers out of the equation. Now you are just listening to CD player > preamp > headphones.
Perhaps Keith has a source and/or preamp he could bring along for swap out troubleshooting. I still suspect something may be not quite right with the loaner preamp, but I'm sure this will get sorted out in the next few days.
Hang in there.
Steve
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With the volume down low there is very little body to the music.have to turn it up a bit to really get a fuller sound.
You may be right with the pre amp .......Anything is possible after all.
I will mention it to keith if he has a pre amp to try...glad you thought of that.
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This is odd?I have Enigma playing in the background and it was in sync with werds "duh" smiley in his last post - I digress, anyway?
New wall circuits? Are they wired up properly? Try using different plugs in the house - when we move into new homes, we have a go - no go plug tester to ensure proper receptical wiring.
I auditioned a new 7B squared / BP26 / BCD-1 with JBL 1400s and the system was awesome - even with a variety of music. I know that this is very frustrating for you, but perhaps something simple has being overlooked.
I wish you all the best...
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HI
Yes the 20 amp outlets were put in a few days ago.He did test them before he left.
I do have the option of pluging it into different outlets but they are only 15A.
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Hi 1wog
whats it sound like loud, with a little juice? you like reggae, put some of that on and turn it up ..... report back :D
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1oldguy;
I have to say, as with others, that your gear should sound awesome regardless of break-in or low-volume.
Do you mind putting into words your set-up from plug to speakers, including colours of jacks (given the problem with the cable you previously mentioned) etc. You have a lot of gear and I have forgotten what you have wired so far. You really should be blown away and certainly not disappointed. We might be able to help you better if you detail your wiring.
Monday is long time away and you deserve to enjoy your music now.
SF
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I concur with SF. You should be hearing a very brilliant sound, to say the least. I too wonder if something is amiss in the setup. :scratch:
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I've been following this thread and wasn't going to comment due to the subjective nature. However my thoughts have been very similar to SF and Vegasdave and I expect something is not correct in the setup or equipment.
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Hi guys
I have the amps set to balanced.At 29 DB as I have the pro version of the amps.I have the bp26 connected to the 1st output on the power unit..And right next to the the power input on the BP26 brain are where the the 2 XLR are connected each one going into each 7B.
I do wonder about the switch on the 7B pro version.Wondering if the amps giving me full power or are turned down?Again only the pro model that you can adjust the power output.The cd player is connected with rca to the left and right on the bp26.
I have the jumpers going from the bottom using the spade to the top of each binding post.One to the left and one to the right.(Not crossing each other).
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Hi guys
I have the amps set to balanced.At 29 DB as I have the pro version of the amps.I have the bp26 connected to the 1st output on the power unit..And right next to the the power input on the BP26 brain are where the the 2 XLR are connected each one going into each 7B.
I do wonder about the switch on the 7B pro version.Wondering if the amps giving me full power or are turned down?Again only the pro model that you can adjust the power output.The cd player is connected with rca to the left and right on the bp26.
I have the jumpers going from the bottom using the spade to the top of each binding post.One to the left and one to the right.(Not crossing each other).
Hello
oh you have the pro version. Those come in parallel or series config dont they? i am pretty sure the sound you are hearing is an incorrect setting on the back of your amp. or an incorrect speaker wire configure out the back of your amp. this sounds fixable, you should probably wait till somebody comes and give you a hand and gets it all sorted for you.
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Hi guys
I have the amps set to balanced.At 29 DB as I have the pro version of the amps.I have the bp26 connected to the 1st output on the power unit..And right next to the the power input on the BP26 brain are where the the 2 XLR are connected each one going into each 7B.
I do wonder about the switch on the 7B pro version.Wondering if the amps giving me full power or are turned down?Again only the pro model that you can adjust the power output.The cd player is connected with rca to the left and right on the bp26.
I have the jumpers going from the bottom using the spade to the top of each binding post.One to the left and one to the right.(Not crossing each other).
Hello
oh you have the pro version. Those come in parallel or series config dont they? i am pretty sure the sound you are hearing is an incorrect setting on the back of your amp. or an incorrect speaker wire configure out the back of your amp. this sounds fixable, you should probably wait till somebody comes and give you a hand and gets it all sorted for you.
Any of those amps can be special ordered in series version depending on desired load to drive. The pro version has a volume attentuator that can go from 0 to -14db, I believe. That's the main difference, I think.
Keith
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Brandon has the Series (standard version) of the 7B's and the gain controls come factory set at the fully clockwise position.
james
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Hi guys
I have the amps set to balanced.At 29 DB as I have the pro version of the amps.I have the bp26 connected to the 1st output on the power unit..And right next to the the power input on the BP26 brain are where the the 2 XLR are connected each one going into each 7B.
I do wonder about the switch on the 7B pro version.Wondering if the amps giving me full power or are turned down?Again only the pro model that you can adjust the power output.The cd player is connected with rca to the left and right on the bp26.
I have the jumpers going from the bottom using the spade to the top of each binding post.One to the left and one to the right.(Not crossing each other).
Hello
oh you have the pro version. Those come in parallel or series config dont they? i am pretty sure the sound you are hearing is an incorrect setting on the back of your amp. or an incorrect speaker wire configure out the back of your amp. this sounds fixable, you should probably wait till somebody comes and give you a hand and gets it all sorted for you.
Any of those amps can be special ordered in series version depending on desired load to drive. The pro version has a volume attentuator that can go from 0 to -14db, I believe. That's the main difference, I think.
Keith
yes i am not sure either. i just seen a pic of the back of a pro 7b(could be an older one) that has a parallel series switch and also has two pairs of positive/neg speaker binding posts. i dont know what they look like now but it might be similar.... i dont know
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The Bryston 7BSST Manual says for actively balanced source to use the 2V/-23dB setting.
4. Input Sensitivity (Gain) Switch. The optimum gain setting will depend upon the source pre-amp operating level, and or personal preference.
The 1v setting is used when the source is single-ended, or from a transformer coupled balanced source.
This is the home theatre setting for single ended or un-balanced operation.
The 1v setting provides the most amplifier gain - 29 dB. (1v in = 100w @ 8 ohms.) (noise -110 dB)
The 2v setting is used when the sources output is actively Balanced.
This is the home theatre setting for balanced operation Or use this setting with any systems where
the volume control rotation is limited to the bottom half of the control or less.
The 2v setting provides an amplifier gain - 23 dB. ( 2v in = 100w @ 8 ohms.) ( noise -113 dB )
There is also a level control on the pro models which will attenuate (decrease) the output
5. Level Control. (pro models only) The level control will attenuate the input signal level from 0dB through -14dB
You might want to try the 2V/-23dB switch position (switch with the power off), and make sure that the level controls are all the way up (not attenuated).
Steve
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I didn't see a series switch on mine and there is only one set of binding posts.
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Hi
I will give that a try and see what happens.Curious though about your statement.Quote,"make sure that the level controls are all the way up (not attenuated)."may I ask if you could explain where this level control is?I take it your not referring to volume?
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The level control is directly beneath the sensitivity switch and is turned with a small screwdriver.
Steve
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Hi
1oldguy you can make these adjustments include the 1v to 2v setting while playing music. Just make sure the volume control on the pre amp is set to low. So you dont get a large boost of volume.
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I didn't see a series switch on mine and there is only one set of binding posts.The other two members of my family are kind of in shock to.Week,Small is how I would describe the sound with bass not very apparent.Flat is another word I would use.I don't think anyone would accuse the sound as anything other than lifeless.
The current 7B's do not have the Series/Parallel switch and only one set of binding posts.
I would never describe Bryston sound as flat so something is wrong and I think a dealer visit is a requirement at this point Brandon.
james
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Hi James....Wondering if there is the slightest chance that the level control on the back of the amp isn't turned all the way up?
But It's not just a matter of more power the sound isn't very flattering to say the least.
I did try the 23 db setting.The effect seems to be more power but less high end.But even with that it's nowhere near what I would expect.
I agree James,a dealer visit is in order.
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Hi James....Wondering if there is the slightest chance that the level control on the back of the amp isn't turned all the way up?
I did try the 23 db setting.The effect seems to be more power but less high end.But even with that it's nowhere near what I would expect.
Unless you played with it it will be all the way up - also highly unlikely that both amps woud have the same issue. Also Brandon you mentioned it sounds the same with headphones so that eliminates the amps and speakers.
james
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1oldguy you can make these adjustments include the 1v to 2v setting while playing music. Just make sure the volume control on the pre amp is set to low. So you dont get a large boost of volume.
I didn't know for sure, so I was just covering the bases! ;)
I know the 2V (-23dB) setting actually decreases the gain of the amplifier, but perhaps with the 1V (-29dB) setting, the preamp's volume control can't be turned up enough to "open up"?
Just some things to try before someone else can get in front of this system in person.
Steve
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Also Brandon, do you have another CD or DVD player around that you could try just to eliminate the possibility of something wrong with the source?
If not, another thing you could try is to connect the BCD-1 to the preamp via a digital coax cable to either the DAC1 or DAC2 input.
Steve
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I don't have those kinds of cables so can't try that.But I can tell you that my very small system using gear that is no where near hi fi sounded much better over all.The cd Player is working fine as I used it on the dinky dink system prior hooking up the new gear.
Good thinking though...One does need to eliminate any weak links.If I were to guess I think it may be the pre amp.But time will tell if I'm right or not.
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I don't have those kinds of cables so can't try that.But I can tell you that my very small system using gear that is no where near hi fi sounded much better over all.The cd Player is working fine as I used it on the dinky dink system prior hooking up the new gear.
Good thinking though...One does need to eliminate any weak links.If I were to guess I think it may be the pre amp.But time will tell if I'm right or not.
Brandon
All this speculating is only going to frustrate you more. Let's see if I can listen tomorrow sometime and if not, do as James suggests and get Dave or Seymour from West End up there first thing Monday to have a look-see.
Keith
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Hi Keith
Your right....I agree as I've tried everything that is possible from my perspective.
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Brandon,
Speakers do take many hours to break in so the dynamics and bass will improve with use - you need at least a couple of hundred hours.
Also it may be that the B&W's may be the wrong speaker for you given that you made a huge jump from a low-fi system to a very hi-end system in one large jump.
james
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Hi James
In the words of Billy Joel,"You may be right".
I did hear the 700 series and really liked them.So it was only natural I would think the 800 series was going to be even more of a good thing.At least I "though" it was pretty sound logic.
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I concur with SF. You should be hearing a very brilliant sound, to say the least. I too wonder if something is amiss in the setup. :scratch:
James has a point. It could be the speakers. When I auditioned a pair of top-of-the-line Phase Tech speakers, the sound was dreadful. I thought the tweeters were blown! It sounded like wet burlap bags were over the speakers.
Then I got my JBLs, which are not really high-end speakers by any means, but they are very crisp and clear sounding. They were less than half the price of the Phase Techs too.
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I did try it with the head phones. Got the same impression.
Let's go back to this previous comment. If that's true, then it has nothing to do with the amp and speakers, and everything to do with the source, interconnects and preamp.
Steve
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Brandon,
Speakers do take many hours to break in so the dynamics and bass will improve with use - you need at least a couple of hundred hours.
Also it may be that the B&W's may be the wrong speaker for you given that you made a huge jump from a low-fi system to a very hi-end system in one large jump.
james
Brandon described the sound as flat. even if he would need hundred hours for a speaker burn in procedure he should have a grown up bass already. i can remember that my 4B SST gave me a kick when turned on the first time. my speakers were pretty new at that time.
there is something wrong...
al.
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Hi Brandon,
With everything switched off remove ONE speaker cable from ONE B&W.
Reverse the two connectors.
DONT reverse the two link cables on the speaker, just the main speaker cable.
Switch on and see if your bass is much more or much less.
I know things are pointing to the cd player/cables but the above is worth checking........
OR wait until help comes round..........
Too many people with suggestions might not help.
But it will sound excellent when you find the issue.
Speaker run in time deos greatly change audio signature of speakers......
All the best,
Andy.
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Hi Andy
I really doubt it's the CD player as I used it with my meager system and I did notice more bass than with my older nad CD player.
Actually I was blown away with the quality of the cd player on my little old system.
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Brandon - what are your old speakers - have you tried them on the 7B's?
james
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Hi Brendon,
Im 25+ years an Audio Visual Installer and general fault finder (I also own the company :wink: ) . That does not mean I know everything, But it does mean I get daily faults to find, Some are common faults but many are still faults for the first time......You must be open minded about this.
Being VERY blunt here......
If you are going to look at ANY system with an issue and use the statement "I really doubt its "X" bit of kit or cable thats the issue" Then not only might you miss what the issues actualy is BUT you are also making your own job so much harder to do........
Side note : my ?1500 Denon 3800 player has always worked fine, last night it jumped all night ling so I dragged a spare unit in, My Mark Levinson CD Transport had always been fine then one day the draw started to stick half way out, My Sony ES player one day refused to turn on, My Quad Electrostatics needed a HF panel, ALL of these were fine days prior. Some of your system has been switched off, boxed up and moved to a new location things go wrong......
I think you have been through a lot recently with the move and changes, Give the Hi Fi a chance, It will be worth it.
Andy - Steps off his soap box :thumb:
The reason I mention to change the cables round is a phase check and BASS is most changed by this.
By changing the peaker cables round you are acually checking the ENTIRE audio signal cables from the CD all the way to the speaker - You are rversing the entire chain. So IF this helped then and one OR MORE cables could have a phase reverse, that could also be in the other channel........
PS - If the complaint is that the system sounds flat that could just be you are hearing it correctly, There should not be an area of the audio that sticks out unless its a solo.
Basic set up tools include phase checking and test tones, I really urge you to get the shop in to do the install correctly - Then if there is an issue they can sort it at their cost.
PPS - If you heard more bass in your previous system another way of putting that is that you had less mid/HF in your previous system. As speaker systems go up in quality the ability to reproduce lower frequencies increases thats NOT louder bass but deeper/lower bass , That will also mean the bass will become more subtle much play much lower. The B&W 802D has the near perfect bass driver compliment (the 800 being perfect) so there really should not be an issue there. ALSO the 802D has the supertweeter that can sound a little sharp and detract from the rest of the reproduction until the entire cabinet has run in - Speaker run in is essential, (I am amazed that companies dont do this prior to shipping)
Speaker placement also greatly changes the sound.
Sorry if this is unstructured and blunt response in places - I certinally dont mean it to cause offence - I have just got in from a Time Trial on my push bike and still running on caffine :o with a more erratic than usual thought process :oops:.
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Hi James
The old speakers were given away as the brother and I never figured we'd be in need of them again.All i have left speaker wise is my small bookshelf Sony Speakers.Along with my old Kenwood receiver.Clearly not Hi Fi grade.But I can tell you that the BCD-Player on that little system told me it is amazing.I will be keeping the cd player.that much is a given.
Hi Andy
You have good logic.I take no offense at all.Actually I am thankful for your and others help here.That's a rare thing in this world.
When i ge off work later i wil try your suggestion of changing the cables.
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HI Andy
I just tried the phase thing.On one speaker i did notice a lowering of the volume.And on the other one nothing seemed to change.
I did one speaker at a time and used the balance to be sure.
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Having the speakers in phase is a stereo requirement.
If they are out of phase, at any instant in time, one speakers driver's cones or domes will be moving forward, while the other's will be moving rearward. This results in a cancellation of frequencies, most apparent in the bass region.
So listening to one speaker at a time shouldn't sound any different with polarity reversed. You need to listen in stereo.
Steve
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Im 25+ years an Audio Visual Installer and general fault finder (I also own the company ) . That does not mean I know everything, But it does mean I get daily faults to find, Some are common faults but many are still faults for the first time......You must be open minded about this.
Mad MR H, in your 25+ years have you ever seen a unit power up by itself? I was sitting in my recliner, hadn't powered up the cd player yet but rest of system was on. Then I actually saw the unit power up, I did not touch the remote or anything else.
About 2 weeks before I had placed a cd in the tray. Decided to go to washroom first before pressing play. While in the washroom the music started playing, WTF as I live alone.
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I was sitting in my recliner, hadn't powered up the cd player yet but rest of system was on. Then I actually saw the unit power up, I did not touch the remote or anything else.
About 2 weeks before I had placed a cd in the tray. Decided to go to washroom first before pressing play. While in the washroom the music started playing, WTF as I live alone.
I have seen a few similar cases of electronic wierdness all involving components with digital control. Whether it's static charges, EMI, RF or whatever, some of these integrated circuits are very sensitive.
But it you have a power amp with a mechanical power switch power up on it's own, well then, of course, it's time to call Ghostbusters (or similar ectoplasmic removal experts).
Steve
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I was sitting in my recliner, hadn't powered up the cd player yet but rest of system was on. Then I actually saw the unit power up, I did not touch the remote or anything else.
About 2 weeks before I had placed a cd in the tray. Decided to go to washroom first before pressing play. While in the washroom the music started playing, WTF as I live alone.
I have seen a few similar cases of electronic wierdness all involving components with digital control. Whether it's static charges, EMI, RF or whatever, some of these integrated circuits are very sensitive.
But it you have a power amp with a mechanical power switch power up on it's own, well then, of course, it's time to call Ghostbusters (or similar ectoplasmic removal experts).
Steve
Ghosts also enjoy a great sounding audio system...
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I farted one time and my grills fell off their speakers :lol:
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I farted one time and my grills fell off their speakers :lol:
werd...
Was that one or both grills that fell off? I just want to know if it was a "mono fart" or a "2 channel fart."
Be well...
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I farted one time and my grills fell off their speakers :lol:
:rotflmao:
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I farted one time and my grills fell off their speakers :lol:
werd...
Was that one or both grills that fell off? I just want to know if it was a "mono fart" or a "2 channel fart."
Be well...
...maybe a surround fart?!
al.
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I farted one time and my grills fell off their speakers :lol:
werd...
Was that one or both grills that fell off? I just want to know if it was a "mono fart" or a "2 channel fart."
Be well...
...maybe a surround fart?!
al.
5.1 or 7.1? :scratch:
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well, if both grills fell off then i would say it must have been a
''7.1 true hd surround fart''.
that's what they always promised: the new formats will blow you away!
so here we are.
al. :lol:
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"blow you away" :flame: No pun intended alexone?
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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"blow you away" :flame: No pun intended alexone?
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
8)
al.
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Brandon, please hurry back. Please? ;)
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Brandon, please hurry back. Please? ;)
why?
al.
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Just to get the thread back on the track of "not enough low frequency output" instead of "super powerful low frequency output"!
Thankfully no one here is into 10.2 surround sound!
Steve
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HI All
Just had a friend over and he felt that the bass was weak,the mid range was thin.He also feels that something isn't rightand that the overall sound is lack luster.He felt that the speakers sound like there not getting enough power.
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I have decided I will not be keeping the gear.It is officially for sale for anyone out there who may be interested.Will soon go the eBay route.
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So here is a list of whats for sale
802D
803D
HTM2D
HTM2D Stand
Bryston 7B squared amps
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That sucks. I hope you get pretty good money for the equipment. 8)
I also hope you find the gear that makes you happy. There's a lot of good brands out there... :D
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I won't be getting any other gear.4 years of working day and night went into this.
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Oh. Ok.
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How about getting a hearing check up?
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Seriously this does seem a little knee-jerk, especially if you've put 4 years into it. At least wait a couple more days and arrange to have someone knowledgable come over. Why not take Keith up on his offer?
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HI B5pt9
We hope to get together tomorrow if things work out.I also will be calling the dealer and see if he will come here.
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Well, I've had some dreadful equipment in the past (no names mentioned) and it was very frustrating. It was almost enough to get me out of the hobby. So, I know what you mean, old guy.
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I did audition the 7Bs squared with my JBLs and I can vouch that these amplifiers are no slouches. I mean 600 watts is quite a bit of power and it is an awesome proformer. I decided on the 28Bs as it took the performance level up a few notches - and I have a thing for big, bland and heavy amplifiers. It is very inportant when the dealer has all the equipment on hand to audition - this makes all the difference in the world. What was it someone said about the Demo?
I remember when I went to listen to a manufacturer that I was very interested in and the price for the system was around 25-30K range. When I listened to it, I did not like it at all - in fact I was very disgusted with its performance - audio is so subjective, you have to take it for a "drive."
Please note that I am not defending Bryston - if I have an issue with a Bryston component I will speak my mind, whether it is good or bad. I have listened to a lot of equipment in the past year and I can tell you that Bryston more than holds its own in terms of performance in the audio world - this is why I purchased a 28B and BP26.
I sincerely hope this works out for you in the end 1oldguy, please keep us posted.
Be well...
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I also think you should give the dealer a chance to look at it. If there is something wrong, there's no reason to take a loss if you may end up with a killer system. Which it should be.
Steve
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Seriously this does seem a little knee-jerk, especially if you've put 4 years into it. At least wait a couple more days and arrange to have someone knowledgable come over. Why not take Keith up on his offer?
I just got back in town about 1/2 an hour ago. I see a lot has happened :o
Brandon, I assume its too late tonight to drop over since I'm sure you can't run the system this late at night. Like I said in my PM, my work is 5 minutes away from your address. I can pop by for a while tomorrow when your schedule fits and bring along some of my own music that I know sounds great on my system.
Keith
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HI Keith
Sounds like a plan to me. :wink:
For the record I've come to the conclusion that all is working properly,it just may be I am not found of the sound.Which is both a relief and a disappointment at the same time.But I do think having a more knowledgeable person check out the gear I have is in order.
It will be interesting to have your input.
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HI Keith
Sounds like a plan to me. :wink:
For the record I've come to the conclusion that all is working properly,it just may be I am not found of the sound.Which is both a relief and a disappointment at the same time.But I do think having a more knowledgeable person check out the gear I have is in order.
It will be interesting to have your input.
We'll definitely get together tomorrow, even if its for only an hour or so. I'll wait for your PM tomorrow as to a time when you are free. I'll take some CDs to work with me tomorrow.
Keith
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Mr1wog
you are not listening to what we are saying or you are not taking it seriousily. the gear you bought is very revealing and outstanding. its the kinda gear i would kill for..... any volunteers :icon_twisted:. My point here is that it's very different from your misconceptions as to what the gear (or any gear of this calibre) will deliver. This gear right now, aside from breaking in, is teaching you a lesson on high end sound. that sound can be very shocking at first and may very well be a bit of a dissapointment. only because its not what you expected. But i can assure you after awhile, in a bit of time after the initial shock you will sit down and actually hear what its doing. Musical presentation will be true to the actual recording.
Do yourself a favor and dont go emo on the first day or week. i assure you this is absolutely good advice here. Have keitha come in, along with your audio dealer and give you a hand. This will help immensely in identifying to the gear you bought.
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Hi. I'm relatively new here, but not to audio. I think you might want to consider the possibility that your components just don't like each other. I have heard several B&W loudspeakers at various dealerships. And I can tell you from experience that I found B&W's really came alive with the right amplification. Bryston make great amplifiers, and they are known for quality and reliability in the professional studio market as well as the mid-fi and hi-fi markets. But keep in mind that they are also very revealing amplifiers, which means they can bring out the worst in your recordings as much as the best. I did some experimentation about a year ago with B&W 801s, and I found that to my ear, among Krell, Bryston, McIntosh and Classe, I liked the Classe monoblocks I heard best with the B&Ws.
It is all about synergy with audio. Not every speaker will sound good with every great amplifier out there. If you are interested, we can help you out at Ciamara, but I will leave it at that, as I do not want to advertise our business in the wrong area. Either way, consider that your amplifiers may just not be the best for your speakers, or your personal tastes for that matter. If you want a more dynamic, full and moving listening experience, a few slight changes may be all you need. Good luck, and hope to hear how you get on.
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I farted one time and my grills fell off their speakers :lol:
werd...
Was that one or both grills that fell off? I just want to know if it was a "mono fart" or a "2 channel fart."
Be well...
it was a single channel very well delivered air release (kinda like the post right above). Nothing in its way including securely attached grills had a chance. have to admit... it scared the shit out of me ..
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Even if synergy is an issue here, I think you should take Werd's advice and give the system a chance.
For myself is the past with upgrades it could take 2 weeks or longer to adjust to the new sound. Even now with the 3B SST 2 I am just beginning to hear the subtlies in recordings that I wasn't aware of before.
I went from a starter system to what I have now in about 9 years. Careful listening analysis went into each upgrade I considered. Sometimes as much as six months was required to identify the weak link. Every upgrade I made improved the sound to some degree.
Your making the adjustment from mid-fi at best to hi-fi, this will take sometime for your mind to adjust. As well, if like me, you'll go through periods of listening fatigue from not being use to critical listening. After that you can listen for hours with little of no fatigue to your mind.
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I'm confused. Are we talking about a lifeless, disappointing sound (as I read earlier in this thread), or are we talking about the sound being analytical (i.e. too revealing and lacking warmth)? These are two different issues, and they depend highly on the listener. I have had clients that find Wilson Audio's Alexandria's to be unimpressive and lacking in vibrancy and dynamic range. I have had other potential clients that decided they were sufficiently happy with little speakers from the likes of Polk Audio. We need to know a little more about what exactly you are looking for in your sound, and what it is that specifically is disappointing with your current setup. And by this I mean both a description of what is objectively wrong, and then equally important, what you personally find to be lacking. Then perhaps we can help you.
Do you want a warm, musical presentation of your music? Do you want dynamic range and impact? Do you want it to be fun and lively? Do you want to be able to enjoy average quality recordings?
or ...
Do you prefer a mild-mannered, detailed presentation of your music? Do you want to hear every little nuance, good or bad? This comes with the obvious tradeoff of an analytical sound that brings out the worst in recordings.
Curious to hear your thoughts here ...
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Mr1wog
you are not listening to what we are saying or you are not taking it seriousily. the gear you bought is very revealing and outstanding. its the kinda gear i would kill for..... any volunteers :icon_twisted:. My point here is that it's very different from your misconceptions as to what the gear (or any gear of this calibre) will deliver. This gear right now, aside from breaking in, is teaching you a lesson on high end sound. that sound can be very shocking at first and may very well be a bit of a dissapointment. only because its not what you expected. But i can assure you after awhile, in a bit of time after the initial shock you will sit down and actually hear what its doing. Musical presentation will be true to the actual recording.
Do yourself a favor and dont go emo on the first day or week. i assure you this is absolutely good advice here. Have keitha come in, along with your audio dealer and give you a hand. This will help immensely in identifying to the gear you bought.
Oldguy,
c'mon...be a Wiseguy and give Werd's advice a chance. it's very nice that Keith will have a look at your system. this can't be the end of the story...
al.
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Provided the equipment/connections aren't faulty, sounds like a typical case of:
1. 'Hifi shock', coupled with
2. bad speaker placement/room acoustics, and
3. synergy mismatch between components
I have no experience with these speakers, but a neutral system that is not properly set up can sound as described.
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Including myself for a total of 4 people ,none of us think the sound is all that great.
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Hi Brandon,
Assuming all is connected correctly it really does sound like a speaker/room issue. Given your tastes in music maybe a JBL horn system or a speaker that really has huge dynamic capabilities like Cerwin Vega, Klipsch etc.?
james
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Let's see what Keith says. Otherwise please provide some more colour as to what you hear versus what you expected to hear, as noted by Sanjay.
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Agreed. Saying the sound is not all that great is not very descriptive or helpful. I also would like to hear what Keith has to say here -- I'm not getting much information at all here.
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Hi. I'm relatively new here, but not to audio. I think you might want to consider the possibility that your components just don't like each other. I have heard several B&W loudspeakers at various dealerships. And I can tell you from experience that I found B&W's really came alive with the right amplification. Bryston make great amplifiers, and they are known for quality and reliability in the professional studio market as well as the mid-fi and hi-fi markets. But keep in mind that they are also very revealing amplifiers, which means they can bring out the worst in your recordings as much as the best. I did some experimentation about a year ago with B&W 801s, and I found that to my ear, among Krell, Bryston, McIntosh and Classe, I liked the Classe monoblocks I heard best with the B&Ws.
It is all about synergy with audio. Not every speaker will sound good with every great amplifier out there. If you are interested, we can help you out at Ciamara, but I will leave it at that, as I do not want to advertise our business in the wrong area. Either way, consider that your amplifiers may just not be the best for your speakers, or your personal tastes for that matter. If you want a more dynamic, full and moving listening experience, a few slight changes may be all you need. Good luck, and hope to hear how you get on.
I have auditioned the 802's with both the Mac 501's and the Classe CAM-400's and have to say I was underwhelmed on both occaisions. Although the 802's were silky smooth in the upper mid and highs in both situations the bass/mid-bass was thin, recessed and just over all "bass shy". Soundstage was good but nothing to write home about. It did not sound as good to me overall as my 19 year old pre upgrade setup of Infinity 9 Kappas and a pair of Adcom GFA 555's. I've since replaced the Adcoms with 7B sq and BP26 and the gap has increased dramatically between what I have now and the 802's in either scenario. Of course there are other uncontrolled variables in this assessment not the least of which was the three different rooms involved. From my perspective I don't think the 7B's are your problem. The Macs and Classe's are certainly fine amps by anybody's measure The listening room and/or the speakers are likely to be contributing more to your concern as has been suggested in a previous post.
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Again, without having listened to the B&Ws, I would also expect that the 7Bs are not the problem. They're excellent amps in a properly matched system in my experience; clear, musical and distortion free, not thin or flat at all. But a lot of it boils down to system synergy and listener preference.
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To Everyone
The gear is working as it should.Both Keith and my dealer felt that it was working properly.That said given the nature of the music I listen to with such a reveling system,it isn't working out for me.The system does indeed sound incredible given the right recordings that the guys brought over.However it is clear to me that given the nature of what I (Mostly) listen too I will be cutting my losses.
So the gear is for sale.
HI James
I will be returning the preamp and power supply along with the cables in the morning to West End.Again I thank you for your kindness.
I also want to talk everyone who took the time on the forum to help me out. :oops:
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:(,sorry to hear that,what type of music do you listen if you don't mind me asking.
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Makes sense 1oldguy, it seems you're quite sure about your judgement by now, so no point in trapping money in a system that doesn't work for you.
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HI Drummer Mitchell
I mostly listen to Blues,Jazz,Rock,Reggae,
Artist I tend to listen to:Eric Clapton,Hendrix,SRV,Walter Rossi,Peter Tosh,Electric Light Orchestra,Moody Blues,Rush,Eagles,Keb Mo,Emerson lake and Palmer,Jeff Beck,Doobie Brothers,Among others
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Hi 1oldguy,I too am into the same areas of music(anything that's hopefully recorded well).I use to use 7b-ssts(mains)now 28s but I liked my 7s alot also.
Using Revel 50as.I guess like anything, it's what our ears like to hear.If your taking everything back to the same dealer,maybe he has something else you can audition.I hope you find the right gear for YOU,good luck.
PS: I have read that Audio Research reference 3(tubes)preamp has excellent synergy with Bryston,just a thought.
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The genres of music you list sound very good through these amps in the sense that they sound closer to live sound; acoustic instruments sound closer to their actual sound e.g. for jazz, and there is lesser overhang with clearer instrument separation, which makes rock easier to listen to. It does appear to be a case of pairing the amps with the wrong speakers; I would not sell the amps off in such a hurry.
If you were expecting big, 'soft' sound with lots of 'soft' powerful bass otoh, a 'mid-fi' speaker system with a powered sub and a less revealing amp may be the answer. Such systems are a perfectly satisfying proposition for many people; less revealing, big sound, easier to listen to on poor recordings.
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It's clear to me there are 2 types of systems out there.Clearly i've lern't this the long way round.
1 Music for the system
2 Systems for the music
I clearly fall in category 2
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Oldguy,
i can understand you and it's just normal that you are dissapointed. on the other hand try different speakers. don't sell your system too fast...
whatever your decision may be: keep us updated.
thanx,
al.
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Hi alexone
Thank you for the good wishes.But for anyone out there looking the gear is brand new and for sale.I won't be dragging my feet on this.I've made my decision.
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To Everyone
The gear is working as it should.Both Keith and my dealer felt that it was working properly.That said given the nature of the music I listen to with such a reveling system,it isn't working out for me.The system does indeed sound incredible given the right recordings that the guys brought over.However it is clear to me that given the nature of what I (Mostly) listen too I will be cutting my losses.
So the gear is for sale.
HI James
I will be returning the preamp and power supply along with the cables in the morning to West End.Again I thank you for your kindness.
I also want to talk everyone who took the time on the forum to help me out. :oops:
Hi Brandon,
OK - please return the BP26 and I am very sorry this has been such a negative experience for you. The dealer tells me it sounds as they expected so it is obviously the wrong system for you.
james
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Hi James
I will give it to them tomorrow morning.
Thanks for lending me the gear.Not many would do that.
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1oldguy:
I am sorry to hear that you are selling everything (except BCD-1). I think most people are in shock given the equipment. I will, as others, strongly suggest sleeping on it a bit longer -- at least the 2 channel set-up. I have a 14B feeding 804S, and on older jazz recordings, the sound is on the bright side (this is a recording problem not an equipment problem). I listen mostly to classical music, however, where big symphonic work is presented with great detail and wonderful soundstage and I love my system. I played Mahler's 5th on the dealers 3BSST 804S combo and there was no going back. If you decide to keep and modify your set-up or decide to come-back at a later point, audition what you are buying with YOUR music on YOUR CDs.
Finally, if your decision stands, you might find CanuckAudiomart, and Audiogon sites much more appropriate for selling your hifi gear than eBay.
www.canuckaudiomart.com
www.audiogon.com
NB: audiogon will charge 3% if you make your sale through them.
Goodluck.
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Honestly, I am not surprised that 1oldguy does not like this system. That is not to say it is a bad system -- on the contrary. It is a very nice system indeed. But to my comments earlier -- and I realize this is a broad overgeneralization -- there are two main types of listeners. Those that like a transparent sound, much like what studio engineers want for mixing (i.e. revealing and brutally honest), and those that want to enjoy their music, including the average quality recordings. By way of example, Krell along with Aerial Acoustics may be at one end of the spectrum. Tannoy along with McIntosh may be at the other. I'm not saying I like or dislike either of these, just trying to make a point.
Overall, if you want to have a fun system that makes average recordings sound good, we have found that you need to go with amplification that is voiced to be musical. That means an amplifier that is voiced to generate harmonics that "fatten" the sound a little, speakers that are dynamic and fast, but with drivers with soft compliance (i.e. forgiving). When we put systems together for people, we generally use powerful solid state class A or class A/B amplifiers with high current reserves. We will add tube processing or pre-amplification. And we use very good quality DACs if digital is required. Since this is a Bryston thread, I will point out that I liked the Bryston 14BSST on a pair of PMC IB2s. For me personally, I found the warmth comes out of Bryston when you use their biggest amps and "overpower" speakers like these.
All this to say, synergy is important. And so is proper planning. Building a sound system is like designing a car. You have to know what you want out of it and build it that way -- ideally in one go if you have the budget, or stepwise if you don't, like most of the world.
And last, I think your musical selections can all sound good, if not great on the right system. One more step you may want to take is to hunt down better versions of your recordings ... Maybe you are aware of this, or maybe you are not .... But we have found that an album produced in Japan can sound much much better than the exact same album mastered in the U.S. by engineers targeting radio and iPods.
Good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.
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1oldguy:
I am sorry to hear that you are selling everything (except BCD-1). I think most people are in shock given the equipment. I will, as others, strongly suggest sleeping on it a bit longer -- at least the 2 channel set-up. I have a 14B feeding 804S, and on older jazz recordings, the sound is on the bright side (this is a recording problem not an equipment problem). I listen mostly to classical music, however, where big symphonic work is presented with great detail and wonderful soundstage and I love my system. I played Mahler's 5th on the dealers 3BSST 804S combo and there was no going back. If you decide to keep and modify your set-up or decide to come-back at a later point, audition what you are buying with YOUR music on YOUR CDs.
Finally, if your decision stands, you might find CanuckAudiomart, and Audiogon sites much more appropriate for selling your hifi gear than eBay.
www.canuckaudiomart.com
www.audiogon.com
NB: audiogon will charge 3% if you make your sale through them.
Goodluck.
What surprises me is the expediency of this considering his investment effort and advice offered here by extremely experience people. the sound can be completely micro-managed through cabling and conditioning. Along with possible source alternative. I know the bcd is awesome but i am talking sacd alternative(remastered) that offers all those titles he likes. He is going to get the same price now or 2 months from now so its doesnt make any sense not to hold off on it.
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Hi alexone
Thank you for the good wishes.But for anyone out there looking the gear is brand new and for sale.I won't be dragging my feet on this.I've made my decision.
I feel like there's been a death in the family. I hope you'll continue to visit the Bryston forum. :(
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1oldguy:
I am sorry to hear that you are selling everything (except BCD-1). I think most people are in shock given the equipment. I will, as others, strongly suggest sleeping on it a bit longer -- at least the 2 channel set-up. I have a 14B feeding 804S, and on older jazz recordings, the sound is on the bright side (this is a recording problem not an equipment problem). I listen mostly to classical music, however, where big symphonic work is presented with great detail and wonderful soundstage and I love my system. I played Mahler's 5th on the dealers 3BSST 804S combo and there was no going back. If you decide to keep and modify your set-up or decide to come-back at a later point, audition what you are buying with YOUR music on YOUR CDs.
Finally, if your decision stands, you might find CanuckAudiomart, and Audiogon sites much more appropriate for selling your hifi gear than eBay.
www.canuckaudiomart.com
www.audiogon.com
NB: audiogon will charge 3% if you make your sale through them.
Goodluck.
What surprises me is the expediency of this considering his investment effort and advice offered here by extremely experience people. the sound can be completely micro-managed through cabling and conditioning. Along with possible source alternative. I know the bcd is awesome but i am talking sacd alternative(remastered) that offers all those titles he likes. He is going to get the same price now or 2 months from now so its doesnt make any sense not to hold off on it.
Hello werd,
So true werd and right to the point, used audio equipment really drops in price in a hurry - so what difference would a couple of months make?
Be well...
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He is going to get the same price now or 2 months from now so its doesnt make any sense not to hold off on it.
Good point.
What confused me through this whole thing was the perception that the sound was pretty much the same through headphones (without B&W 802 speakers and without Bryston 7B power amps).
I personally wouldn't make a move without in-home demoing a nice juicy tube preamp! Might be just what the doctor ordered.
Steve
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Best of luck selling your gear, old guy. Sorry it didn't work out for ya. But, c'est la vie, right? :wink:
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Well it's not all bad.At least I don't have to bust my tail saving for an SP3.I will keep the sub and center for movies.
So for anyone interested in 7B's not even opened at a fantastic deal here I am.
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I disagree with the tube preamp idea...In my opinion, you match Bryston pre amp to Bryston amp for best results. In regards to impedance matching, among other things.
Like I said in an earlier post, I auditioned these Phase Tech speakers, and they were dull and muffled. Not sure why, but they were. It would have been easy to blame the Bryston equipment, but guess what? It wasn't the Bryston equipment. It was those wretched speakers! My lower-line JBLs are the opposite (if maybe a little bright,) but they sound good on all genres of music and many different types of recordings. Believe me when I say I've played some real lousy recordings through my system! Even the worst recordings sound at least somewhat listenable.
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Building a sound system is like designing a car. You have to know what you want out of it and build it that way
By that token I think 1oldguy was out looking for a Rolls and ended up ordering a Ferrari :wink:
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Well it's not all bad.At least I don't have to bust my tail saving for an SP3.I will keep the sub and center for movies.
So for anyone interested in 7B's not even opened at a fantastic deal here I am.
That's good to know. I would, but unfortunately, I don't have the funds. I don't doubt that you will find a buyer, however. Sooner than later.
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By that token I think 1oldguy was out looking for a Rolls and ended up ordering a Ferrari :wink:
[/quote]
I think that about sums it up. :duh: aa
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I like many others have being following this thread with a lot of interest and I must admit that I am somewhat confused - more than normally that is.
Should not a great audio system reproduce different music genres to the same outstanding level?
I agree that a poorly recorded CD can definitely ruin the musical experience. When I went to audition my prospective systems, I walked in the door with a dozen or so CDs and tended not to listen to the dealer?s demo CDs until I first auditioned my music.
I had selections from Vivaldi to RUSH and from Persephone to Manson and I enjoyed them all equally on the system that I finally selected - subjectivity again? I used my own CDs because I wanted to hear how the music was reproduced on specific parts of vocals and instrumentals.
Want to hear a kicker? I am NOT a Jazz fan (or at least I thought so) and I actually enjoyed listening to the dealer's Jazz CDs - will wonders never cease?
I think that a great system should play anything you feed it exceptionally well.
Be well...
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Best of luck selling your gear, old guy. Sorry it didn't work out for ya. But, c'est la vie, right? :wink:
For the love of Peter vegasdave, you have got the wrong province :nono: :duh: :o
A more proper term would be....
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
Remember, we are all different up here in Canada, eh?
:lol:
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In order to move the amps I am willing to sell for $2999.99 each.
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I personally wouldn't make a move without in-home demoing a nice juicy tube preamp! Might be just what the doctor ordered.
Steve
Or, just get a graphic equaliser from the 70's that is full of old dried up electrolytics and 741 op-amps! :lol:
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I disagree with the tube preamp idea...In my opinion, you match Bryston pre amp to Bryston amp for best results. In regards to impedance matching, among other things.
There are many people on AudioCircle and elsewhere, that have mated a tube preamp to very neutral solid state amps, including Bryston. For them, it was the perfect solution, resulting in a less sterile analytical sound that to them sounded richer and fuller.
Impedance matching is important, but a reputable audio dealer should be able to recommend and offer appropriate models that have synergy. But, of course, a demo in your room with your equipment and ears is the only way to know.
YMMV.
Steve
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Hi SRB .....
While you may be 100% right, I believe this was my limit as far as I am willing to go.My dealer has suggested a route that may be whats needed to get this on the right foot.So all isn't so bad.As I mentioned I'll be keeping the sub and center.And at some point pick up a meager receiver for music as well at music.I will end of with some type of system as I do have a love of music.Would never give that up.
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I guess it's just like guitar amps,some prefer solidstate and some prefer tube.
It definately comes down to what WE like to hear,some like effects and some no effects.I like it all, if it gets to my emotions,Bryston does it for me :thumb:.
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I guess it's just like guitar amps,some prefer solidstate and some prefer tube.
It definately comes down to what WE like to hear,some like effects and some no effects.I like it all, if it gets to my emotions,Bryston does it for me :thumb:.
Now there's where tubes belong aa aa
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2448/gearzz5.jpg)
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/369/imgp5408.jpg)
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1323/2telesix3.jpg)
Keith
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Hi Keith
Now that's one lovely site.I see you have a vox there.I have the VTX 120 head in the closet ,never used it once.Never even got the cab for it.if you know anyone interested you know where I am. :thumb:
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Brandon
I knew you'd be lurking so I figured I'd post the pics for you :wink:
Keith
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I disagree with the tube preamp idea...In my opinion, you match Bryston pre amp to Bryston amp for best results. In regards to impedance matching, among other things.
There are many people on AudioCircle and elsewhere, that have mated a tube preamp to very neutral solid state amps, including Bryston. For them, it was the perfect solution, resulting in a less sterile analytical sound that to them sounded richer and fuller.
Impedance matching is important, but a reputable audio dealer should be able to recommend and offer appropriate models that have synergy. But, of course, a demo in your room with your equipment and ears is the only way to know.
YMMV.
Steve
Bryston is not sterile...it's got a lot of virility. ;)
Well, that would mean they like to color the sound with that tube device. To each is own, but it's not neutral sound or accurate stereophonic reproduction.
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Best of luck selling your gear, old guy. Sorry it didn't work out for ya. But, c'est la vie, right? :wink:
For the love of Peter vegasdave, you have got the wrong province :nono: :duh: :o
A more proper term would be....
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
Remember, we are all different up here in Canada, eh?
:lol:
Yes, I know about Canada...I grew up near the border in Detroit. haha.
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
What does this mean? :?
-
Great picts Keith.Nice to have the variety,telecasts,strats,Les paul's ect.different moods for sure.they all sing superbly in their own way 8)..
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I disagree with the tube preamp idea...In my opinion, you match Bryston pre amp to Bryston amp for best results. In regards to impedance matching, among other things.
There are many people on AudioCircle and elsewhere, that have mated a tube preamp to very neutral solid state amps, including Bryston. For them, it was the perfect solution, resulting in a less sterile analytical sound that to them sounded richer and fuller.
Impedance matching is important, but a reputable audio dealer should be able to recommend and offer appropriate models that have synergy. But, of course, a demo in your room with your equipment and ears is the only way to know.
YMMV.
Steve
Bryston is not sterile...it's got a lot of virility. ;)
Well, that would mean they like to color the sound with that tube device. To each is own, but it's not neutral sound or accurate stereophonic reproduction.
Roger that, Vegasdave. I bought my first Bryston amps in June, a pair of 7B sq. and they don't need a tube preamp to mellow the sound. They have a tubelike quality on their own with the BP26. They sound as good at low volumes as they do past 12:00 on the BP26. These two observations are consistent with all the reviews coming in on the new squared series 4B and above. And please don't tell me the 7's don't have the grunt to handle the 802's. Mine are driving some of the nastiest speakers you'll ever see and even at higher volumes they don't compress the sound and don't break a sweat. I stand my ground with an earlier post the cause of 1oldguy's dissatisfaction with his system lies somewhere beyond the 7B's back door.
Bill
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And please don't tell me the 7's don't have the grunt to handle the 802's. Mine are driving some of the nastiest speakers you'll ever see and even at higher volumes they don't compress the sound and don't break a sweat. I stand my ground with an earlier post the cause of 1oldguy's dissatisfaction with his system lies somewhere beyond the 7B's back door.
Bill
I agree - keep the amps, there is no way the problem is with them. :thumb:
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Well, that would mean they like to color the sound with that tube device. To each is own, but it's not neutral sound or accurate stereophonic reproduction.
Absolutely right, but that's apparently not what 1oldguy wants. He previously said "I did try it with the head phones. Got the same impression." He did not like the neutral accurate presentation of the Bryston BCD-1 CD player feeding into the Bryston BP-26 preamp. (I don't know what the headphones were, but again, 802's, 7B's and room acoustics were not part of that equation).
Some people prefer the even harmonic distortion coloration of tubes, and there are many audiophiles that have gone through scads of high-end equipment and finally settled on a tube preamp and a solid state amplifier, that's all.
I was just throwing out a possibility of taming the too-accurate system without starting over and taking an immediate $5K + hit.
But if I were to sell off equipment, I might sell the B&W's but would definitely keep the Brystons.
Steve
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Brandon
I knew you'd be lurking so I figured I'd post the pics for you :wink:
Keith
Hi Keith
I was at WE today.I heard the 804S with some movie samples on.What was interesting is that with movies I was really impressed.
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1oldguy;
I think now that you have a Bryston top-end all set up, you should convince your dealer, from whom you have purchased quite a few pieces, to let you aucition whatever speakers he has in stock to see if changing the speaker might do the trick for you. I agree with others, the 7Bs should bring thunder into your room. I don't mean to uselessly persist; just trying to provide options.
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Hi SF
My dealer is waiting for the arrival of a modest receiver and will get one of the guys to come here and set it all up for me.So I will wait it out for just a tad longer.My dealer is a great guy,really trying to help me out.The other speakers he has are Monitor Audio.Heard them a little ways back.
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Oh Boy!
Sorry to hear the way things have gone for you, But I do understand.
Are they SST2 7B's - I don't have any of them........(yet :icon_twisted:)
Colour? sorry Color? :)
17 or 19?
With holes for rack mounting?
What else were you selling?
Maybe PM me - PS I really should not buy any more this millenium :duh:
Maybe some food :lol:
Andy.
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Brandon
I knew you'd be lurking so I figured I'd post the pics for you :wink:
Keith
Hi Keith
I was at WE today.I heard the 804S with some movie samples on.What was interesting is that with movies I was really impressed.
Yep. The 804s are what I have. Those with a great sub would do wonders on movies. You'd still in somewhat the same camp when you went back to your 2 channel audio, though :| With yoiur sub and cente channel, even the 805s would impress you in 5.1 in your room :wink:
The Monitor Audio speakers are the ones I told you about I went with in my little mini living room stereo. Mine are the bookshelves, not the floor standers.
As far as the movies go, you would be impressed since the dynamics of the movies and their recording quality is way ahead of the music you like to play
Keith
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Best of luck selling your gear, old guy. Sorry it didn't work out for ya. But, c'est la vie, right? :wink:
For the love of Peter vegasdave, you have got the wrong province :nono: :duh: :o
A more proper term would be....
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
Remember, we are all different up here in Canada, eh?
:lol:
Yes, I know about Canada...I grew up near the border in Detroit. haha.
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
What does this mean? :?
Basically, things just ain't goin' as they should have. Not FUBAR...but close :wink:
Keith
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Best of luck selling your gear, old guy. Sorry it didn't work out for ya. But, c'est la vie, right? :wink:
For the love of Peter vegasdave, you have got the wrong province :nono: :duh: :o
A more proper term would be....
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
Remember, we are all different up here in Canada, eh?
:lol:
Yes, I know about Canada...I grew up near the border in Detroit. haha.
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
What does this mean? :?
Basically, things just ain't goin' as they should have. Not FUBAR...but close :wink:
Keith
Thank you Keith :wink: I hope that Brandon is also going to buy you lunch :thumb:
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Best of luck selling your gear, old guy. Sorry it didn't work out for ya. But, c'est la vie, right? :wink:
For the love of Peter vegasdave, you have got the wrong province :nono: :duh: :o
A more proper term would be....
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
Remember, we are all different up here in Canada, eh?
:lol:
Yes, I know about Canada...I grew up near the border in Detroit. haha.
"Now luh, da arse is gone right out of er!"
What does this mean? :?
Basically, things just ain't goin' as they should have. Not FUBAR...but close :wink:
Keith
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
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1oldguy;
I think now that you have a Bryston top-end all set up, you should convince your dealer, from whom you have purchased quite a few pieces, to let you aucition whatever speakers he has in stock to see if changing the speaker might do the trick for you. I agree with others, the 7Bs should bring thunder into your room. I don't mean to uselessly persist; just trying to provide options.
I concur.
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Well, that would mean they like to color the sound with that tube device. To each is own, but it's not neutral sound or accurate stereophonic reproduction.
Absolutely right, but that's apparently not what 1oldguy wants. He previously said "I did try it with the head phones. Got the same impression." He did not like the neutral accurate presentation of the Bryston BCD-1 CD player feeding into the Bryston BP-26 preamp. (I don't know what the headphones were, but again, 802's, 7B's and room acoustics were not part of that equation).
Some people prefer the even harmonic distortion coloration of tubes, and there are many audiophiles that have gone through scads of high-end equipment and finally settled on a tube preamp and a solid state amplifier, that's all.
I was just throwing out a possibility of taming the too-accurate system without starting over and taking an immediate $5K + hit.
But if I were to sell off equipment, I might sell the B&W's but would definitely keep the Brystons.
Steve
I won't argue with your points. I'm glad you see my point(s.)
I agree, sell the B&Ws and keep the Bryston.
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Hey oldguy, you just don't want the equipment anymore, right? You don't like it, and it's disappointing.
Would you be willing to try (audition at home) another speaker before you put the equipment on the used market?
Also, every audio manufacturer is gonna have a few people who did not like the sound. That isn't a knock on Bryston, that's just the way it goes sometimes. You can't win 'em all.
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I disagree with the tube preamp idea...In my opinion, you match Bryston pre amp to Bryston amp for best results. In regards to impedance matching, among other things.
There are many people on AudioCircle and elsewhere, that have mated a tube preamp to very neutral solid state amps, including Bryston. For them, it was the perfect solution, resulting in a less sterile analytical sound that to them sounded richer and fuller.
Impedance matching is important, but a reputable audio dealer should be able to recommend and offer appropriate models that have synergy. But, of course, a demo in your room with your equipment and ears is the only way to know.
YMMV.
Steve
Bryston is not sterile...it's got a lot of virility. ;)
Well, that would mean they like to color the sound with that tube device. To each is own, but it's not neutral sound or accurate stereophonic reproduction.
Roger that, Vegasdave. I bought my first Bryston amps in June, a pair of 7B sq. and they don't need a tube preamp to mellow the sound. They have a tubelike quality on their own with the BP26. They sound as good at low volumes as they do past 12:00 on the BP26. These two observations are consistent with all the reviews coming in on the new squared series 4B and above. And please don't tell me the 7's don't have the grunt to handle the 802's. Mine are driving some of the nastiest speakers you'll ever see and even at higher volumes they don't compress the sound and don't break a sweat. I stand my ground with an earlier post the cause of 1oldguy's dissatisfaction with his system lies somewhere beyond the 7B's back door.
Bill
So true about the 7s :thumb: Bill - did you go the SACD route :scratch:
Be well...
-
I disagree with the tube preamp idea...In my opinion, you match Bryston pre amp to Bryston amp for best results. In regards to impedance matching, among other things.
There are many people on AudioCircle and elsewhere, that have mated a tube preamp to very neutral solid state amps, including Bryston. For them, it was the perfect solution, resulting in a less sterile analytical sound that to them sounded richer and fuller.
Impedance matching is important, but a reputable audio dealer should be able to recommend and offer appropriate models that have synergy. But, of course, a demo in your room with your equipment and ears is the only way to know.
YMMV.
Steve
Bryston is not sterile...it's got a lot of virility. ;)
Well, that would mean they like to color the sound with that tube device. To each is own, but it's not neutral sound or accurate stereophonic reproduction.
Roger that, Vegasdave. I bought my first Bryston amps in June, a pair of 7B sq. and they don't need a tube preamp to mellow the sound. They have a tubelike quality on their own with the BP26. They sound as good at low volumes as they do past 12:00 on the BP26. These two observations are consistent with all the reviews coming in on the new squared series 4B and above. And please don't tell me the 7's don't have the grunt to handle the 802's. Mine are driving some of the nastiest speakers you'll ever see and even at higher volumes they don't compress the sound and don't break a sweat. I stand my ground with an earlier post the cause of 1oldguy's dissatisfaction with his system lies somewhere beyond the 7B's back door.
Bill
So true about the 7s :thumb: Bill - did you go the SACD route :scratch:
Be well...
Hi Andy,
I'll PM you to avoid knocking the thread off course.
Bill
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Update'
The interesting thing is that the Acoustic guitar I play doesn't sound as lively,somewhat like a thud.It rang more and projected better in my old place.
last night I set up the Kuro Flat Panel.This being my second unit.I have not heard better speakers ever on any set for the record.At anyrate it used to sound glorious at the other place.The bass was fuller,and the dialog wasn't as flat. Don't get me wrong it still is way beyond what you expect.But it's pretty clear to me that the sound is being hampered at current premises.
I also feel that the room is close to 50 % of the perceived performance out of any type of sound system.
I also still feel that the mid-range in the 800 series is not as neutral as claimed,and depending on the flavor of music "Can" be a great.After 9 hours on the system I feel that the bass is going in the right direction.I had on some Supertramp on yesterday and the imagining was incredible.As for bass wasn't too bad there either.
I am also surprised,I think it's the speaker, though I don't have enough experience using the gear I have to know for sure,but it feels like the system isn't happy with a lower volume going from a cd player to amp to speakers and without any EQ or artificial sweeteners as it were.I was expecting more presence,fullness at lower volumes given the redesigned power curved of the amps.I also realize that the 800 series loves the power.
Rant Over. :thumb:
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Sounds to me that you have a dead acoustic room.
If you are able to set up a multi-channel system I recomend trying a Yamaha av/receiver RX-V 1700, just to see if it solves your situation.
An av/receiver allows you to control bass better. You can use the YPAO digital room correction, but requires the presence speakers in order to get it to work. Uses a parametric equalizer and has 3 different settings for high frequencies, depending on your speakers as to which sounds best.
As well, I've been an advocate for the enhancement feature on the Yamaha, and this just might be the ticket to the fuller sound you seek at lower volumes, as it seems to add the missing harmonics stripped in the recording process. However reading the manual is necassary in figuring out the full features of the unit.
The enhancement feature works in 2 channel mode, but I find that Pure Direct sounds better. Multi-channel processes the bass different than 2-channel an maybe to your liking.
I don't know what else to suggest, hope this helps?
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Note electronics and especially woofers need some break-in time.
Also FYI:
http://www.ashly.com/gqxseriesgraphic.html
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That's some really impressive EQ.Thanks for the link.
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Dilbert: This is true, but why an eq?
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That's some really impressive EQ.Thanks for the link.
Thats a fairly standard 1/3 octave eq . Above that you would use a parametric eq.
You still need test kit to use this correctly.
Glad to hear you are finding out about the room, and the speakers are starting to run in, it really does take time............
Due to room size are you sticking to 2ch?
Maybe you should consier the Audyssey Room eq system or anything that has an auto setup system. Denon, Lexicon, NAD, Ultegra all have room EQ, there are others but I dont know or have not used them.......
Andy.
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Hi Andy
I figured why not at least turn it on. :thumb: :green: aa
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Hello 1oldguy,
How goes the yard sale? Any bites as of yet?
Be well...
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HI Laundrew
I am about to begin the process of elimination and try to move on from the situation.
-
Best of luck - I hope everything works out for you and at the end of the day you are happy :D I am going cable shopping tomorrow and will most likely pick up my BP26 - I am looking forward to when this is all over and I can sit down and just enjoy my music :drool:
Be well...
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oddly enough...That's what I was doing before I bought my system. :duh:
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What are you intending to end up with?
2ch or 2ch+Center or 5ch or 5.1ch ?
Or not sure?
What's the room size?
What's the floor covering?
Windows with curtains?
Much furniture in the room?
All things that alter the perception of the reproduced audio.
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HI Andy
Sent You a P.M
B
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1oldguy;
Well it sounds like you might be starting to like the equipment as they open up. You might already know the following, and I am sorry for repeating them here, but it might help you.
1) Your bass output from the 802s is to some palpable extent dependent on how long and how thick your cable run from the 7Bs to the speakers. The cable runs should be as short as possible. The cables should also be as thick as possible. Thick short cables provide lease resistance to the amp, resulting in appropriate delevery of current to the 802s. This might be overkill, but for my 804s, I used a double run of Kimber 8TC (equivalent to 9Gau each) one to the woofer and one to the midrange/tweeter speakers posts. I then added another run of 12Gau Monster wire to the woofer. The entire run is 5 feet per speaker. Going from a single 16 Gau cable, this modification made the biggest difference in bass output of the 804s. Just remember that the 802s need a lot of current to function well (they are hard to drive based on impedance/phase characteristics)
2) If you feel that running in is helping the system, you can face the two speakers and then wire one speaker out of phase with the other so that the sound-waves it produces are out of phase with the other and cancel each other out. Then you can turn up the volume and leave the system to burn-in for prolonged periods, e.g. throughout the night, with minimal sound pressure (volume) in your room.
Hope this helps.
-
So you're tri-wiring, true? My speaker cables are 6.5 ft. per side. 10 gauge. I hope this is not compromising the sound! (I doubt that it is)
Also, I plan to bi-wire sometime in the future. How does bi and tri wire improve the sound, in your opinion?
-
Best of luck - I hope everything works out for you and at the end of the day you are happy :D I am going cable shopping tomorrow and will most likely pick up my BP26 - I am looking forward to when this is all over and I can sit down and just enjoy my music :drool:
Be well...
A great day! I like it when a plan comes together :banana piano:
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1oldguy;
Well it sounds like you might be starting to like the equipment as they open up. You might already know the following, and I am sorry for repeating them here, but it might help you.
1) Your bass output from the 802s is to some palpable extent dependent on how long and how thick your cable run from the 7Bs to the speakers. The cable runs should be as short as possible. The cables should also be as thick as possible. Thick short cables provide lease resistance to the amp, resulting in appropriate delevery of current to the 802s. This might be overkill, but for my 804s, I used a double run of Kimber 8TC (equivalent to 9Gau each) one to the woofer and one to the midrange/tweeter speakers posts. I then added another run of 12Gau Monster wire to the woofer. The entire run is 5 feet per speaker. Going from a single 16 Gau cable, this modification made the biggest difference in bass output of the 804s. Just remember that the 802s need a lot of current to function well (they are hard to drive based on impedance/phase characteristics)
2) If you feel that running in is helping the system, you can face the two speakers and then wire one speaker out of phase with the other so that the sound-waves it produces are out of phase with the other and cancel each other out. Then you can turn up the volume and leave the system to burn-in for prolonged periods, e.g. throughout the night, with minimal sound pressure (volume) in your room.
Hope this helps.
HI SF
The speakers wire used is 3 feet long from Bryston.I think it's 9 gauge.Oddly enough even though my room isn't the best we all tend to think that the T.V speakers blow the 802 away in terms of projection and High ReZ Detail.I would imagine this sounds rather strange to anyone reading this but the Kuro Speakers gave me what 802's didn't.I think b&W should talk to pioneer to put it mildly.
-
1oldguy;
Well it sounds like you might be starting to like the equipment as they open up. You might already know the following, and I am sorry for repeating them here, but it might help you.
1) Your bass output from the 802s is to some palpable extent dependent on how long and how thick your cable run from the 7Bs to the speakers. The cable runs should be as short as possible. The cables should also be as thick as possible. Thick short cables provide lease resistance to the amp, resulting in appropriate delevery of current to the 802s. This might be overkill, but for my 804s, I used a double run of Kimber 8TC (equivalent to 9Gau each) one to the woofer and one to the midrange/tweeter speakers posts. I then added another run of 12Gau Monster wire to the woofer. The entire run is 5 feet per speaker. Going from a single 16 Gau cable, this modification made the biggest difference in bass output of the 804s. Just remember that the 802s need a lot of current to function well (they are hard to drive based on impedance/phase characteristics)
2) If you feel that running in is helping the system, you can face the two speakers and then wire one speaker out of phase with the other so that the sound-waves it produces are out of phase with the other and cancel each other out. Then you can turn up the volume and leave the system to burn-in for prolonged periods, e.g. throughout the night, with minimal sound pressure (volume) in your room.
Hope this helps.
HI SF
The speakers wire used is 3 feet long from Bryston.I think it's 9 gauge.Oddly enough even though my room isn't the best we all tend to think that the T.V speakers blow the 802 away in terms of projection and High ReZ Detail.I would imagine this sounds rather strange to anyone reading this but the Kuro Speakers gave me what 802's didn't.I think b&W should talk to pioneer to put it mildly.
A great many Individuals purchase B&W speakers (after they audition them of course) and enjoy them immensely - as many others have said before, audio can be very subjective at times. I do not believe that B&W has to speak with Pioneer :scratch:
Be well...
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Dilbert: This is true, but why an eq?
Maybe get the sound he is looking for? I'm just throwing it out there as food for thought.... :|
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I have decided that I will be selling the center and all Bryston amps.Just need to take get a camera for some picks.
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[quote author=SF link=we all tend to think that the T.V speakers blow the 802 away in terms of projection and High ReZ Detail.I would imagine this sounds rather strange to anyone reading this but the Kuro Speakers gave me what 802's didn't.I think b&W should talk to pioneer to put it mildly.
Haha, I've heard a few hifi yarns in my time, but this one takes the cake! you the man 1oldguy! :lol:
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I have decided that I will be selling the center and all Bryston amps.Just need to take get a camera for some picks.
Hello 1oldguy
Are you keeping the 802s now?
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I have decided that I will be selling the center and all Bryston amps.Just need to take get a camera for some picks.
Hello 1oldguy
Are you keeping the 802s now?
That would be weird, as the sound 1oldguy doesn't care for has everything to do with the (not-fully-broken-in) speakers and the room, and very little to do with the amps.
Steve
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I have decided that I will be selling the center and all Bryston amps.Just need to take get a camera for some picks.
Hello 1oldguy
Are you keeping the 802s now?
That would be weird, as the sound 1oldguy doesn't care for has everything to do with the (not-fully-broken-in) speakers and the room, and very little to do with the amps.
Steve
I agree, Steve. We're going around in circles now and up to 319 posts on this thread. I'm outa here. :x
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I have decided that I will be selling the center and all Bryston amps.Just need to take get a camera for some picks.
Hello 1oldguy
Are you keeping the 802s now?
That would be weird, as the sound 1oldguy doesn't care for has everything to do with the (not-fully-broken-in) speakers and the room, and very little to do with the amps.
Steve
I agree, Steve. We're going around in circles now and up to 319 posts on this thread. I'm outa here. :x
I concur...I do not know which way is up any longer with this thread :o
:surrender:
Ta Ta...
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This whole thread has been nothing short of pandering to the rediculous. The only way i can make sense of any of it is if 1oldguy came clean and admitted to his dealing with Classe or Mac, its the only way it makes sense. He did seem to like the video of classe and B@W together so maybe that should be his start into his adventure with high end?
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Hmm...are you saying this whole thing is a ruse? To rile up Bryston owners?
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Hmm...are you saying this whole thing is a ruse? To rile up Bryston owners?
I am saying the whole thing thing has gotten totally rediculous and anything is possible so yes maybe that is happening or maybe not but it so bizarre i am not ruling it out.
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True, and you never know... :scratch:
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True, and you never know... :scratch:
:bowdown: thankyou
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You're welcome!
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True, and you never know... :scratch:
Sorry guys...but I DO know :wink:
These last few comments are even more bizzarre than the thread you've been commenting on :roll:
So you think some guy BOUGHT $60k of gear 'unheard' (because had no way of demoing in Eastern Canada), played a game for a while to ruffle some feathers and is now looking to sell the stuff at a big loss claiming he doesn't like it?
As odd as is this thread has developed, you can put away the conspiracy theories. They don't exist. What you have is a young guy who thought he was assembling HIS dream system (based on his expectations :wink:) and when he fired it up...it didn't meet his expectations.
Maybe what his expectations of 'high end' was completely different than what he got.
I met Brandon a couple weeks ago when I offered to drop by his place to ensure the gear was set up properly. No matter what has happened in this thread, he's sincere.
So, before the swords come out for 1oldguy, let me assure you there's no gaming going on here. So, I'd nip that one in the butt...... it not happening.
Keith
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Well, instead of dropping $60k on the system, he should have traveled to a dealer that would have given him a demo.
This whole thing is bad pr for Bryston. This is their forum, is it not?
I personally would have this thread removed.
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Keiths in on it too :lol:
Just kidding Keith, forgive my poor UK humour..............
Glad you posted as I dont have any SST2 amps and really would love to have some......... :wink:
Trying to arrange UK banks to borrow some more .gov cash to help me out on that front :D
So you saw all five 7B's ?
(Brendon does not have camera)
And they are all the rack mount black sst non "C" series pro fronts with the gain control........
Do you know how perfect that is for my BB5's to go active :drool:
That is without 28's (That I dont think really exist and some forum members just made that number up then hacked the Bryston website to add some made up 28B data - thats my theory on the 28's :green:)
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Well, instead of dropping $60k on the system, he should have traveled to a dealer that would have given him a demo.
This whole thing is bad pr for Bryston. This is their forum, is it not?
I personally would have this thread removed.
Dave,
sure it's not a good PR for Bryston. but i think that this website is for the good and for the bad. what happened here can happen to any other company as well.
if ALL these manufacturers/VP out there would be as brave as James and would discuss their products on a public website i am convinced that they would receive the positive and the negative feedback from their customers. that's just the way it is.
so once again thank you James for sharing this hobby. first hand informations not only for Bryston customers. it's a blessing to have you here...in good times and in bad times.
al.
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if ALL these manufacturers/VP out there would be as brave as James and would discuss their products on a public website i am convinced that they would receive the positive and the negative feedback from their customers. that's just the way it is.
so once again thank you James for sharing this hobby. first hand informations not only for Bryston customers. it's a blessing to have you here...in good times and in bad times.
al.
agreed. as far as the forum goes, it's a place for bryston owners to discuss their equipment, so every bryston owner is entitled to share their experiences, positive or negative. that James participates in this forum and shares the hobby is a statement of the company's values; the honesty, integrity and lack of BS marketing pitches is one of the things i really respect about bryston. they're rare qualities in today's world, but ones i certainly value and include as a consideration in choosing bryston gear.
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if ALL these manufacturers/VP out there would be as brave as James and would discuss their products on a public website i am convinced that they would receive the positive and the negative feedback from their customers. that's just the way it is.
so once again thank you James for sharing this hobby. first hand informations not only for Bryston customers. it's a blessing to have you here...in good times and in bad times.
al.
agreed. as far as the forum goes, it's a place for bryston owners to discuss their equipment, so every bryston owner is entitled to share their experiences, positive or negative. that James participates in this forum and shares the hobby is a statement of the company's values; the honesty, integrity and lack of BS marketing pitches is one of the things i really respect about bryston. they're rare qualities in today's world, but ones i certainly value and include as a consideration in choosing bryston gear.
thank you, Viajero!
al.
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I understand all of that, but this thread serves no purpose anymore, except what not to do when buying a high end system.
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I understand all of that, but this thread serves no purpose anymore, except what not to do when buying a high end system.
Which I would think is a pretty valuable lesson :wink:
Keith
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I suppose.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21567)
2 of the amps are open,the other 3 are sealed all with the same date of manufacture.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21568)
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Looks amazing.
Those amps would look so nice in my racks.
That is a serious consideration for me.
I have been going over different configurations.........
In fact its given me some sleepless nights.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21567)
2 of the amps are open,the other 3 are sealed all with the same date of manufacture.
I know I said I'm outta hear a few posts back but just couldn't resist this. How much you want for the bananas?
BTW, I have 1850 and 1851. I wonder who has 1848 and 49. :scratch:
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Hi Guys
Just had the pictures taken today.I didn't get a chance to take photos of the 803D.But rest assured I really do have them along with the HTM2D2D and ASW855.I am willing to throw in the bananas for free if you'll pay for the shipping. :D
Come on down Andy,the price is right.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21570)(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21571)
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Well, I love the sound of B&W driven by Bryston. After 300+ posts, I am just about to cry. And look at those soldiers lined up to leave!!! :(
I think the post should stay (plenty of very good advice for novices -- from choice of SP3 and 2 channel stereo to speakers set up and room effects), as much as I hate the ending.
More importantly: best wishes and better luck in your future endeavors 1oldguy.
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Thanks for the good wishes SF.
For the record I love the Bryston cd Player.My problem is I just don't have the funds to keep going and going.I will soon be listing the gear so if anyone is interested before it goes on either Ebay or Audiogon would have the first chance at it.Still debating on just how I should go about selling it all.May sell all in a package deal.But not written in stone yet.
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Well, why not just sell the speakers and get different ones?
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If it were me, I would order a pair of Salk HT2-TL for only $4K and give them a whirl.
Although there seem to be nearly as many who don't care for the B&W sound as those who do, the Salks seem to have almost universal likeability and are a superb value. And I have becomed spoiled for ribbon tweeters.
http://www.salksound.com/speakers_veracity_ht2-tl.shtml (http://www.salksound.com/speakers_veracity_ht2-tl.shtml)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71140.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71140.0)
Then if they got a thumbs up, I would then look into adding the center and surrounds.
Steve
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21727)(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21728)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21729)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21730)
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Well all the amps are all packaged up and looking for a good home. :D
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1oldguy, i know ive been a bit hard on you. But i am not kidding.... you need to set that shit back up and have a party. Fire it up on two channel and get everything else out of the room except for speaks and amps. Move those drivers away from the wall and dont let what you see on utube influence you. those drivers are long throw and get them away from the wall and crank it up. 8)
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Again, he should try a different pair of speakers, imo.
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:deadhorse:
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:deadhorse:
Neat animated GIF :thumb:
Keith
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:deadhorse:
Neat animated GIF :thumb:
Keith, that's just a standard one from the icon library when you're posting a reply. Just click on the [more] (#post_) link at the end of the insertable icon list.
Steve
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:deadhorse:
:D
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Well some good news ....I have a buyer for my speakers.Now all that's left is my amps.
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Cool deal.
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I'm trying to give a good home to these amps.
World economy not helping......
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Hi James
I just picked up My 2nd Bryston Cd player....... A True Gem of Audiophile gear without doubt.
I Would like to ask if it is possible to swap 2 of the unopened amps I have for 2 of the Consumer versions?
I did read somewhere here on the Forums about the pro versions adding noise to the signal path and the it would be better to go the consumer route for that reason.Maybe you could go into some detail ab about this.
Thanks James
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Hi James
I just picked up My 2nd Bryston Cd player....... A True Gem of Audiophile gear without doubt.
I Would like to ask if it is possible to swap 2 of the unopened amps I have for 2 of the Consumer versions?
I did read somewhere here on the Forums about the pro versions adding noise to the signal path and the it would be better to go the consumer route for that reason.Maybe you could go into some detail ab about this.
Thanks James
Hi Oldguy,
As long as the gain controls are fully up they would perform the same as the consumer version. I will let you know if a studio wants 7B's going forward and maybe move them that way for you.
james
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Thanks You James
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Interesting as I just finished a review of the B&W 802D,One I hadn't seen before.At any rate when it got to talking about the Bass of the speakers the reviewer said that bass would be no greater than a bookshelf speakers on a lot of material.But instead of this being a negative it was refered to as a positive since many speakers give a false sense of frequency exaggerating bass and the mids to sound bigger.
In the short time I did use it there was a clarity that I felt missing once I hook up my old system.But that would be expected I think.
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Haven't heard 802D so don't know what you're hearing.
I bought a pair of headphones once that had no bass and would rattle on low frequencies. Exchanged them for another brand which had plently of bass. It was possible the previous pair needed a headphone amp, I dunno.
I was playing my stereo for a friend and he said it needed more bass. I was puzzled since there was no shortage of bass with all the speakers I have hooked up. So I adjusted the bass tone control to +3 and he gave me the okay sign.
Maybe you just need a pre with tone controls or speakers that emphasize the bass rather than clean bass. Clean bass takes some time to adjust to and perhaps you're not there yet. But I think perhaps eventually overtime listening to high quality gear you will prefer clean bass as over-emphasized bass becomes tiring if you listen to music 30 to 50 hours per week.
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Hi Mag
I find I tire of over-emphasized bass as soon as I hear it.My brothers system is pretty bad for that,2 or 3 min and i'm done when he has it on.Your also right about it growing on me.I'd rather go with good clean lean bass any day rather than over blown frequencies.
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I have had my 802Ds for about 4-5 months now.Everyone says the tweeter is the main improvement over the old model but imo the tweeter is the main problem in the new design. I noticed 2 problems with them; 1) they are somewhat veiled in the upper midrange/lower high frequency area and 2) The ATTACK seems to be missing. I am guessing the tweeter mass is too great but this is just a guess.
They do have a major plus though. As they are somewhat veiled I can listen to all my recordings and they sound good-very good but nothing sounds spectacular. I think this may have been a deliberate trade off on the design as the previous version was known to be extremely revealing( I know I had them).These speakers are very different.
Even my old 801 series 3 were more revealing and had much better attack.
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Hi Budt
It is interesting to hear your thoughts on the 800 Series,the 802D in particular.
You mention the 802D being veiled.I too, when I A/B them, (Get this) against this my Sony Bookshelf speakers that are 15 years old,when playing Tightrope by The Electric Light Orchestra was really taken back when I had to strain to hear how low in the mix the cello and Violins were berried on the 80d's compare with the meager sony speakers.Veiled,you betcha.But to their credit the 802D are more open in some other ways.
I too feel that spectacular isn't the word I would use to describe the 802's.Maybe in their next revision they will deal with these issues.I have heard they will be using stronger magnets for starters.That might help with the attack you mention.
My over all impression of the 802D, regardless if a CD is recorded well or not, appears to me if certain frequencies excite the speaker then your in luck,it will come through,if not it just sits there.Is it all bad,of course not,but given the nature of B&W's mantra of,"loosing the least" to me is Clearly not the case at all.I would imagine they know they can do much better with the 802D.And soon the new 802D will roll out,It Will be very interesting to compare I'm sure.
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Hi JAMES
If I may ask regarding the use of using the balanced or unbalanced connections on the Bryston amps is there any difference in performance?
Also curious about what causes a dip in ohms when listening to speakers.
Thanks James.
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Hi JAMES
If I may ask regarding the use of using the balanced or unbalanced connections on the Bryston amps is there any difference in performance?
Also curious about what causes a dip in ohms when listening to speakers.
Thanks James.
Hi,
Balanced Vs Single Ended (RCA) Connections
Like most things in life there is a plus/minus
The plus is Balanced lines prevent any ‘’OUTSIDE’ (RF) interference from affecting the audio noise floor of the ‘system’ through a mechanism called ‘common mode noise reduction’. So no outside contamination. The longer the interconnect the more this applies as the cables are antennas to the outside world – airports, taxis cell phones etc.
The minus is that you have a number of ways to balance a system (IC’s, Transformers, discrete components etc.) and you need a sending and a receiving circuit so you in fact have two more circuits in the signal path. So it could be argued that single ended (RCA) is a more purest approach.
We use fully discrete Class A circuits in all our balanced systems so with our gear. given the horrendous RF clutter out there I would recommend using balanced circuits.
james
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Hi James
Wondering if when using RCA if one used Shielded RCA Cables (IF there is such a thing) would this be one way to counteract the negative effects of outside interference?
And maybe if you could touch upon why speakers dip in ohms?
Again thanks
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Hi James
Wondering if when using RCA if one used Shielded RCA Cables (IF there is such a thing) would this be one way to counteract the negative effects of outside interference?
And maybe if you could touch upon why speakers dip in ohms?
Again thanks
Hi 1oldguy
Its because of the type signal that the speaker sees coming from the amp. Current takes the easiest path, so if the signal is a lower signal (bass register) the speaker's crossover network restricts access to the tweeters and opens up the signal to bass drivers. These devices are larger and can handle more current. This scenario allows the impedance(resistance) to drop and current to flow.
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Hi
RCA connectors have two pins.
The outer is the shield and is usually (even in free cables) connected to a shield within the cable.
This shield could be a "drain wire", "Foil Shield" or "Braid shield" type.
The center "Signal" or "Hot" pin is the other connection.
So 99% of RCA cables will have a screen.
RE : speaker impedance
Oh Boy ! if you search in google you will fins a number of articles that explain this.......
If you come across an easy to understand brief explaination then that will be the simple form and may not give great detail... but a starting point......
ALL speakers vary and so its not an issue to be concerned about. (Thats a very general over view....)
Andy.
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Not my words.......
"In a speaker, impedance is made up of the DC resistance
of the copper wire in the voice coil, plus the AC "reactance"
of the inductive effects from that same wire being in the
form of a coil (with an iron core), plus the mechanical
reactance due to the spring in the suspension and the
mass of the moving cone. The reactance part varies
with frequency, and actual speaker impedance typically
has a big peak around resonance, or two peaks one
on either side for tuned designs (like those with ports
or passive drivers)."
my words......
So although a speaker might drop to below 1 ohm is it also possible to hit 40+ as well but usually around the given figure.
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I wonder since the ohms can very so much, how does one as a manufacturer figure out how many ohms a given set of speakers are since it jumps around so much?
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Its a nominal value,
If you are looking at one entire speaker cabinet with a 30Hz to 20000Hz+
then the "issue" points are very few, for the main of that range its fairly stable.
The figures given on speakers industry accepted and usually limited to 4 / 8 / 16 ohm options for ease of specification......
Andy.
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Just to add to what James said above:
Balanced connections are also highly preventative against ground-loop current flowing through your signal wires, which is otherwise nearly always happening to some degree when using unbalanced line-level connections.
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What are the side effects of ground-loop current.Possible damage to gear?I do know that the speakers tries to reject and send back the signal being sent to it.Is this what your referring to?
Thanks
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What are the side effects of ground-loop current.Possible damage to gear?I do know that the speakers tries to reject and send back the signal being sent to it.Is this what your referring to?
Thanks
I'm referring not to speaker (high-level) connections, but to signal (line-level) connections. Perhaps a good place to start would be to read up at the Jensen Transformers site - perhaps starting with their FAQ's (link (http://www.jensentransformers.com/faqs.html#faq1)), then also reading the white papers (at same site) for more detailed info...
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I would prefer to buy a pre with Balanced connections but it would appear that my only real option if I go with Bryston would be the SP3 and the cost of at least 8000.00 dollars right now and for a good while perhaps is a little daunting to say the least.It would be great if Bryston could offer a no frills version with xlr.I'm sure there are others who would buy such a unit if it were made.
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For 2ch
Bryston BP20,25,26 are all balanced output units.
The 25 is a 20 with remote control option.
The 26 uses the newer MPS2 power supply.
(BP6 & 16 are not balanced)
5ch the SP1.7 & SP2 are balanced out.
When you say "no frills" unit what would you do without? or want included?
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As far as I know the SP2 doesn't have the latest standards for movies.Correct me if I'm wrong.
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As far as I know the SP2 doesn't have the latest standards for movies.Correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct - the SP2 does not decode the current DD and DTS HD formats.
james
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Thanks James
Is there a way around this?If it's done by the Blue Ray player I take it it doesn't have to be done by the sp2 to partake of these sound formats?
How much is the SP2?
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Thanks James
Is there a way around this?If it's done by the Blue Ray player I take it it doesn't have to be done by the sp2 to partake of these sound formats?
How much is the SP2?
I use my Pioneer BlueRay DVD players analog out into the 5.1 analog bypass on the SP2.
james
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Hi,
My answer was based on the question being about balanced outs, audio formats is another ball game.....
Are you going 5ch again?
Or sticking with 2ch?
I play blu ray (& HD DVD) films in my 2ch system, Most players have a 2ch mode.......(my 5ch as well)
The other way is to go 5ch and get a player that decodes on board then sends out via 5.1ch RCA.
Then you need 5ch pro that accepts 5.1
(Or 7.1 if required)
I did 5ch analogue with a Denon 3800 Blu player and my Lexicon MC12B.
Maybe consider 2ch whilst waiting for the SP3 ???
I would hope the SP3 is feature packed to be up to date at time of release, the Blu Ray world (& HDMI) has now slowed down and seems to be at (or very close) to final concept stage..............Now is a good time for product release - I think we are still at HDMI 1.3b, not checked for some time !
OR in my 5ch system as a stop gap I bought an Onkyo 886 (Integra 9.9) processor.......thats £1500 in the UK and about $2000 US (I think)
Maybe less now, I bought mine a good year ago.........the previous Onkyo 885 was very similar.
The new version after the 886 is the PR SC5507 and has Balanced outs, bi amp options for front L & R, Twin SUB balanced outs, it even has the MOST UP TO DATE 9.2 OUTPUTS and runs the audyssey room EQ system like so many are using these days..........
I think that fills the "stop gap" space......
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Hi Andy
Yes 5.1 pre is what I need.But wanted something that has xlr and the latest decoders built in.But also want great 2 channel audio.
But I believe that James himself pointed out,I could be wrong of course that for best 2 channel audio it would be better to go with the Bp26.
The there is the issue of room correction that concerns me because of my room certainly not near the standers I need/want for audio or movies.
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Yes 5.1 pre is what I need.But wanted something that has xlr and the latest decoders built in.But also want great 2 channel audio.
But I believe that James himself pointed out,I could be wrong of course that for best 2 channel audio it would be better to go with the Bp26.
The there is the issue of room correction that concerns me because of my room certainly not near the standers I need/want for audio or movies.
For balanced outputs, room correction and good 2 channel - Anthem AVM 50v or Classe SSP-800 (manual room correction). But I thought you already bought a Rotel RSP-1570?
Steve
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Hi Andy
Yes 5.1 pre is what I need.But wanted something that has xlr and the latest decoders built in.But also want great 2 channel audio.
But I believe that James himself pointed out,I could be wrong of course that for best 2 channel audio it would be better to go with the Bp26.
The there is the issue of room correction that concerns me because of my room certainly not near the standers I need/want for audio or movies.
5.1 with XLR, latest decoders, great 2ch audio - Yep Onkyo Pro fits that spec.
BEST 2 ch audio - Yep BP26 fits that spec.
Room correction is an area that I think you should worry about AFTER you have the kit you want............AND you then need to trust the test kit and NOT what you think sounds right.......
JAMES - Is there room for a Bryston "old school" analogue parametric EQ in the range......? not sure about demand these days......
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For balanced outputs, room correction and good 2 channel - Anthem AVM 50v or Classe SSP-800 (manual room correction). But I thought you already bought a Rotel RSP-1570?
Steve
Hi Steve, whats the price of those two?
Brendan - Do you really already have a Rotel?
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For balanced outputs, room correction and good 2 channel - Anthem AVM 50v or Classe SSP-800 (manual room correction)
Hi Steve, whats the price of those two?
Anthem AVM 50v: $5499
Classe SSP-800: $8000
Steve
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Thanks Steve,
So Classe is SP3 money - wait for specs then compare in home.....
Anthem close in price again.
Arcam gets good write ups and spoken highly of by owners in UK I know.
Those would be considerations instead of the SP3, the Onkyo (Integra) I feel a cheaper stop gap - and find one second hand and even better.......
For the price the Onkyo ticks all the boxes, and quality is so much better than I thought it would be, the 885/886 even better value for money - Like I say though, I bought as a stop gap unit as the HD DVD/Blu battle was on, the HDMI specs changed monthly, Blu were still working on v2 specs! etc.
Today what would "I" buy - Onkyo 886 or the newer 5507 - Why? Still as a stop gap, Once the SP3 is out I think I would then consider which high price tag unit might replace the Onkyo - PS, I hated onkyo !!! prior to owning the 886 - the all in one pro/amp units are not reliable, mass produced rubbish in my opinion, sold by the high street box shifters here in the UK........
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Hi Steve, whats the price of those two?
Brendan - Do you really already have a Rotel?
Hi Andy
No I don't have the Rotel.
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Just came upon an interesting thread reguarding the B@W speakers.It would appear others have the same impressions I have.Who would have thunk it.
Here's the link.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=36450
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Just came upon an interesting thread reguarding the B@W speakers.It would appear others have the same impressions I have.Who would have thunk it.
Here's the link.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=36450
I couldn't help but notice the following observation from a poster who claimed to be a B & W dealer:
"The 802D is harder to find a good amp for because they love power too but they also need a powerful amp that is fast in the bass but tube like in the highs. This limits you to Clayton, Symphonic Line, maybe Classe, older Coda, older NRG, older Essence, or Gryphon."
What he describes here is exactly what the Bryston squared series amps are being increasingly noted for in the audio press. This is especially true of the 7, 14 and 28B's yet he doesn't mention Bryston and there have been numerous discussions where users have claimed that Bryston and the B & W 802D is not a good match.
I auditioned the 802's with Mac 501's and Classe 401's two separate times at two different dealers. I found them to be noticeably better served by the Classes and although they were pleasant sounding with both I was totally unimpressed by the soundstage and the bass presentation. My point of reference at the time was my Infinity 9 Kappas being driven by a pair of pedestrian 20 year old Adcom GFA 555's.
This whole audio thing is a complete crapshoot unless you have a local dealer that will let you take everything home to audition. I'd be willing to bet less than 10% of us have that opportunity.
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[...]My over all impression of the 802D, regardless if a CD is recorded well or not, appears to me if certain frequencies excite the speaker then your in luck,it will come through,if not it just sits there. [...]
Sounds like a comb filter description.
The first suspect would be the room / proximity to walls. A speaker with wide radiation pattern near drywall will do this, mostly noticeable to your treble.
If this is not the case then they're just better avoided.
Nap. :thumb: