AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => Humour and Jokes => Topic started by: viggen on 8 Dec 2022, 04:40 pm
-
Not sure where to post this but might be helpful to those who buy and sell electronics often.
Preface: It's about 1099-k
https://youtu.be/92sX4kS5XNQ
-
Watched the video and thanks for posting. Some jokes just aren’t funny especially when the hand of big government is running the show!
-
The "joke" of it is how insane it is.
Guess those new 87k irs people have to earn their keep and help recoup the trillons blown by you know who.
Lose the digital trail, use cash as much as possible.
Gotta go, their on me :nono:
-
Shouldn't take long for this to end up in Quarantine. :D
-
Shouldn't take long for this to end up in Quarantine. :D
Well lets hope it does not. This concerns private sales of audio in USA.
charles
-
There is a lot of misinformation on this.
If you are an average Joe selling used audio equipment, and you sell the item for less than you paid for it, you don't have any income and don't pay any tax. All you have to do is report the cost of the items (I grouped them together as Used personal electronic equipment) and what you received. I put this on one line of the Capital Gains and Losses form (which I had to submit anyway).
I got 1099-K last year. The amount received is shown by month. It took me all of 10 or 15 minutes to check my costs and make a handwritten spread sheet.
For people selling used personal audio equipment with a larger sales volume, it would be more tedious, but the same process.
For those not selling used personal equipment and/or making a profit - different story.
-
It all depends on where one buys something from and how old it is. For example, if someone buys something used from an individual for cash and then sells it via PayPal, it could end up being a pain or buying something new from a store a while back and if the item is old enough or the store is out of business, it might be difficult to substantiate the original cost.
I don't sell many things as I tend to often rotate them to secondary systems and if something gets displaced and isn't worth tons or is too much of a pain to ship (just gave an old Rel Storm III sub to a friend - didn't have the box, it was about 20 years old - they do sell for around $400-$600 - I had two of them and one bit the dust and I bought new subs), I'll give it to someone. I made a conscious decision a year ago - no more selling via PayPal. I will take Zelle, a check after it clears. a postal money order or whatever method doesn't result in the need to deal with it.
They should be throwing more of the burden back on PayPal but it's easier to throw it back on the individual. For examble, if I bought something vis Paypal, they took a commission and should have a record of it (I realize it could get more difficult to identify with something like an audio cable). If the same item is sold within the statutory period via PayPal, they should be required to compute any capital gain and loss. It works that way with stocks. If I buy something from a broker, they make a commission just like PayPal does, and when I sell it via that broker I get my 1099 with a gain or loss.
-
There is a lot of misinformation on this.
If you are an average Joe selling used audio equipment, and you sell the item for less than you paid for it, you don't have any income and don't pay any tax. All you have to do is report the cost of the items (I grouped them together as Used personal electronic equipment) and what you received. I put this on one line of the Capital Gains and Losses form (which I had to submit anyway).
I got 1099-K last year. The amount received is shown by month. It took me all of 10 or 15 minutes to check my costs and make a handwritten spread sheet.
For people selling used personal audio equipment with a larger sales volume, it would be more tedious, but the same process.
For those not selling used personal equipment and/or making a profit - different story.
The video is saying exactly the same thing. The burden of proof is on you.
-
The "joke" of it is how insane it is.
Guess those new 87k irs people have to earn their keep and help recoup the trillons blown by you know who.
Lose the digital trail, use cash as much as possible.
Gotta go, their on me :nono:
Only deposit $599.00 at a time into your bank account. LOL
-
Don't be an early filer in 2023.
https://www.al.com/news/2022/12/early-tax-filer-why-irs-says-you-should-file-later-in-2023.html
-
Not sure where to post this but might be helpful to those who buy and sell electronics often.
Preface: It's about 1099-k
https://youtu.be/92sX4kS5XNQ
I think you chose poorly. Definitely not humorous and therefore should not have been posted under humor and jokes. I expected a smile and did not get one.
-
dark humor. things in your life you have no control over... laugh about it... better for your health.
-
Only deposit $599.00 at a time into your bank account. LOL
The reporting requirement for the 1099-K is cumulative. $599 + $2 = 1099-K
-
I will take Zelle, a check after it clears. a postal money order or whatever method doesn't result in the need to deal with it.
Many buyers say "Why should I trust you?" and are unwilling to purchase higher priced used items. They say "Why should I send money to a stranger on the internet when I do not even do that for my family?"
Selling used audio has become painful. Not to mention how some people abuse the system to get free tryouts knowing Paypal will uphold any buyer complaint. Worse yet, a refund does not include the fees out of pocket.
-
Many buyers say "Why should I trust you?" and are unwilling to purchase higher priced used items. They say "Why should I send money to a stranger on the internet when I do not even do that for my family?"
Selling used audio has become painful. Not to mention how some people abuse the system to get free tryouts knowing Paypal will uphold any buyer complaint. Worse yet, a refund does not include the fees out of pocket.
I agree it has become more painful and that's why I tend to rotate things to secondary systems or even give them away. When I sell something, which isn't often, it is not out of desparation. If the buyer doesn't like the terms, my attitude is go somewhere else. Sometimes on the stuff I sell, it might even be easier to trade them in when buying something higher priced from a dealer. It might be a bit less money buy then one doesn't have any of the hassle that comes with it. I probably have a few things I could sell right now but they are not really that expensive and to me it just isn't worth the effort. There is just zero circumstances where I'm going to pay fees to some places and then have the problem of dealing with a 1099.
-
I agree it has become more painful and that's why I tend to rotate things to secondary systems or even give them away. When I sell something, which isn't often, it is not out of desparation. If the buyer doesn't like the terms, my attitude is go somewhere else. Sometimes on the stuff I sell, it might even be easier to trade them in when buying something higher priced from a dealer. It might be a bit less money buy then one doesn't have any of the hassle that comes with it. I probably have a few things I could sell right now but they are not really that expensive and to me it just isn't worth the effort. There is just zero circumstances where I'm going to pay fees to some places and then have the problem of dealing with a 1099.
Same here. :thumb:
-
… it might even be easier to trade them in when buying something higher priced from a dealer. It might be a bit less money buy then one doesn't have any of the hassle that comes with it.
Completely agree. I hate the hassle of selling stuff. It may be easy money for someone else but I’m content trading in.
-
Selling anything expensive is generally a PITA for an average person. For example, I typically just trade cars in. The trade in offsets the sales tax for the value of the trade in. The dealer also takes care of all the motor vehicle paperwork so I don't have to deal with crowds or stand in line. About 7-8 months back, one of my Rel Storm III subs finally went (about 20 years old). I bought a pair of new Rel S/812s for the main system, stuck the bad sub in the garage (where it acts as a stand for something now) and the working one in a closet. I got over to a friends place a couple of months back and just gave him the sub. He doesn't have much in the way of funds. There's several for sale right now in the range of $500-700. However, I don't have the boxes and rather than go through the process of attempting to deal with selling, it was just easier to load it in my car and drive 45 minutes. Speakers, especially without the box, are tougher to sell (and I also have subs in my back-up systems so there was no place for the Rel and if something ever went down the road, I'd just get one either new or used). I have a friend who has been trying to sell Ohm Walsh speakers for a bit (he had a friend who designed his new speakers and he built them as he is handy that way) and without the boxes he's hasn't gotten them sold yet.
So, in light of the above, the 1099 issue is just the icing on the cake. It just adds another weight to a heavy lifting process. The PayPal fees have gone up over the years (as has the listing fees on a site I used many years ago but have not used in some time). I'd guess that PayPal (and I do use it to buy smaill things once in a while vs. a credit card especially from a vendor that's new to me and I'll likely never buy anything from them again and see no reason to let them have my credit card number) has seen a bunch more Friends and Family transactions as well as people using Zelle or other forms of payment. So it's probably a lose lose situation for them too.
-
Seems the only viable way to sell will be cash local pickup.
Many people say the situation will get much worse.
-
I've bought and sold stuff via eBay as I live in a small town in the west so the sales market here is highly limited. I think that I've sold (bought used) about $2000 worth of stuff this year -mostly camera equipment. I think that I'll probably just pay the tax. I've heard that documenting your purchases will slow the tax return. So I'll just look at whether it's worth the time to do so. If it saves me a few hundred dollars, it'll be worth it as I don't have too much net worth.
-
I've been buying and selling on Facebook marketplace. Meet up and cash for everything. Sells as fast as eBay and I shipped a jersey once, everything else cash, no commissions, no shipping fees.
-
State sales tax was mentioned a couple of posts back. In addition to sales tax, states have 1099 requirements - https://www.efile4biz.com/resource-center/combined-federal-state-filing-program/ The 1099 requirements for states are not necessarily the same as Federal. Also, PayPal has offices in a half dozen states or so. They may not even realize their state requirements (I did state and local taxes for many years). It's a whole Pandora's Box to open what states may require. Some may have requirements for what has been deemed an occasional or casual sale. So it could lead to more than just a 1099 issue for someone. I certainly don't want to end up needing to document the very few things I sell (and basically all the sales are for less than I paid for the item) for a Federal return and then have to end up filing state returns (whether that is for income due to a 1099 or sales tax returns).
An example would be Audiogon. They have an office in SC. If one ends up selling things and they are deemed to be a sales agent (which they really are as they take a commission), there could be circumstances where enough sales are made to people in SC and one is required to collect the sales tax. All one needs to do is get on their radar once. Since we are individuals and don't keep records the way a business entity would, a state may have a particular policy to assess taxes for a specific period of time (e.g. 8 years). So if someone was deemed selling enough items in a particular jurisdiction to be deemed a seller and they sold $10,000 worth of items in a given year, even if that was things they paid $25,000 for, they can be assessed the sales tax rate on the $10,000 and good luck being able to recover it from the individuals you sold things to. So if the sales tax rate is 6 percent, that's $600, without any interest or penalty. If that state has a policy of going back 8 years for failing to file a return and you have no records one could end up paying $6,000 or more in sales taxes, depending on how hardball they wanted to be and how short their budget is.
So to me the 1099 issue started in this thread is just the tip of the iceberg. There is nothing I wish to do (for the very few things I sell for less than I paid for them) to end up on a taxing jurisdictions radar. We're in times where there may be states with budget deficits. Raising taxes on residents is always unpopular. Getting additional funds to close that deficit often leads to state or local taxing jurisdictions to take more aggressive approaches. It is just reality.
-
Incredible.
-
.
-
Not to mention; our wonderful congress just approved hiring 87,000 more IRS agents to enforce it :cry:
-
Not to mention; our wonderful congress just approved hiring 87,000 more IRS agents to enforce it :cry:
No politics!
From AC Posting guidelines: (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=about;area=posting-guidelines)
"Politics, public policy and religion
We've tried it, it doesn't work. Please go somewhere else to talk about these topics."
-
We shall see whether any changes to the $600 threshold were included in the omnibus budget bill that was just passed today; as discussed in the video, there were different efforts underway to make changes.
-
Delayed for 2022. The future of the tax is yet to be determined.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/irs-delays-gig-tax-filing-rule-for-side-hustles-of-more-than-600-11671815725
"The Internal Revenue Service on Friday gave millions of Americans a one-year reprieve on new tax-reporting requirements, delaying implementation of a law that requires e-commerce platforms such as eBay, Etsy an"
Sorry, this is a WSJ article and I am not a subscriber so the information here is not complete. Hopefully someone will find a link to more complete information.
-
Aaaaaand, over the next 24 hours listings on eBay, Audiogon, USAM, Audiocircle, etc. explode by 10x...
-
dark humor. things in your life you have no control over... laugh about it... better for your health.
Not even close to any kind of humor. I have not read one thing on this thread that made me smile except for my post on delaying the rule.
-
The delay is good news! Maybe it can be changed for the better? 222-213
-
The delay is good news! Maybe it can be changed for the better? 222-213
I think the fact that the tax is being reconsidered is a good sign. I think (just my opinion) we will see a change in the reporting threshold. There was already a higher reporting threshold in previous years so the tax will not go away completely.
-
People are overreacting to this. It's a PITA but you don't have to find receipts for your 20 yr old tube amp you just sold, just look up the msrp, it's a strong enough basis for worth.
Most online selling markets will be sending the IRS this form, so getting cash isn't going to help and if you try to hide it it's just going to be more likely you'll get audited.
This is mostly to prevent ebay sellers from avoiding taxes.
There is an attachment to the latest spending bill that raises it up to $10k afaik, but probably for '24.
The rumor IRS hired 87k to go after you for your speaker sale is not true. Here's some info from someone who isn;t just regurgitating rumors:
The number comes from a Department of Treasury report issued in May of 2021. Page 16 of the report lists the potential number of new full-time IRS employees (FTE) hired through fiscal year 2031 as 86,852.
Source: https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/The-American-Families-Plan-Tax-Compliance-Agenda.pdf
This number is inclusive of all IRS personnel (administrative assistants, custodians, programmers etc.) as well as agents. It's forecast to fill roles left by an aging workforce. (52,000 of the 83,000 IRS employees are eligible for retirement or expected to resign within the next five years.)
Source: People | Internal Revenue Service.
If the IRS followed through with the total number of hires, there would be a net gain in personnel across all departments. There wouldn't be an increase in actual IRS agents of more than several thousand.
Note that this also runs counter to a claim made by several Democratic lawmakers that there will be no new IRS agents and the IRS is just backfilling positions.
Enforcement may increase, but the claim of 87,000 agents is entirely without merit.
Source for the increase to $10k:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/hagerty-manchin-propose-10000-threshold-for-venmo-paypal-tax-reporting-change-up-from-600.html
-
And now, a 1-year reprieve:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2022/12/23/irs-delays-until-2023-onerous-600-form-1099-k-reporting-threshold/?sh=6f7256cd54fe
Hopefully by that time it'll be back up to $10k.
-
DaveC113
Thank you for posting factual information. :thumb: I am extremely tired of a society that runs on sensationalized half-truths and outright lies. It seems like so many people are looking for an excuse to be angry. :(
-
This thread has served its purpose, I will lock it now and leave it here for reference as there was some useful information posted.
Please do not start a new thread on the same topic.