AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Vista Audio => Topic started by: Audiovista on 13 Jul 2009, 12:51 am

Title: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 13 Jul 2009, 12:51 am
Concurrently with release of the Vista-Audio phono preamplifier (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69710.0), it is my pleasure to announce the AudioCircle Limited Edition version (ACLE).

The Limited Edition version will have the following added features compared to the standard product:

- Preselected, low-offset version of the operational amplifier will be used in two gain stages.

- In addition to high precision resistors and capacitors used in passive RIAA circuit, the ACLE will have 0.5% resistors used everywhere else (normally, 1% accurate resistors are used).

- 10% of the sales ($30 per unit) will go directly to support AudioCircle.

- Free shipping worldwide (see the power supply note below).

- 30% discount on Low  Capacitance Silver Interconnects from AudioLimits, perfect for MM and MC cartridges (regular price $99, if ordered with ACLE phono, then only $69) http://www.audiolimits.ca/interconnect/index.htm).

- There will be only 100 ACLE preamplifiers made, each one with its own unique serial number (ACLE001 through ACLE100).

- Ordering and tracking details are here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69793.0:h




MORE DETAILS ON THIS OFFER:

- This offer has been discussed and graciously approved by JohnR and Steering Committee.

- Prepaid orders will be logged as received, and serial number assigned (you can pick an unassigned s/n should you want). PayPal, check or MO are all accepted.

- ACLE preamplifiers will start shipping in September '09 on the first-order-first-ship basis. We'll try to speed up the process, but it may take us 8-10 weeks to build units and close all orders.

- Standard 2yr warranty and return policy applies, with exception of actual shipping costs and $30 donation to AudioCircle which are not refundable.

- Within the US/Canada, the preamplifier ships with it's own wall plug AC supply (wall-wart). Unfortunately, we were not able to locate acceptable source for 230V version. International orders will ship without the power supply. Buyer will need to provide local power supply capable of generating 12VAC, with minimum output current of 0.2Amp and standard 5.5/2.1mm coaxial connector. Free international shipping should offset the cost of the power supply.

- All intellectual property, product rights and responsibilities are owned by ENG Vista, Inc., the company behind Vista-Audio brand.

- AudioCircle is indemnified of all liabilities and responsibilities in connection with this offer.

- Customer support, service and all technical queries will be addressed by ENG Vista, Inc. / Vista-Audio.

- Vista-Audio reserves the right to discontinue the offer and change number of available units at any time.

Thank you,
Boris

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: JohnR on 13 Jul 2009, 01:17 am
Cool :thumb:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: topround on 13 Jul 2009, 01:28 am
Count me in.

I want one :D

Mike
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: richidoo on 13 Jul 2009, 01:44 am
I want it asap.  :drool:

Thanks for the great review ecramer.

Rich
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: whubbard on 13 Jul 2009, 01:50 am
I'm in. I'm building a new turntable so I'm going to need a new MM preamp for my Rega P2.
If I PayPal right away can I reserve S/N 001?  :thumb: Seems silly, but it would be fun to have.

-West
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: topround on 13 Jul 2009, 02:26 am
Hey Whubbard

those linkwitz Orion's?

Love to hear them??!!
Mike
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: MaxCast on 13 Jul 2009, 02:31 am
(http://www.vista-audio.com/Images/Phono-1_Iso_LR.jpg)
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: JohnR on 13 Jul 2009, 02:51 am
#001 is already gone ;) Sorry West  :oops:

Perfect timing for me :dance:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: richidoo on 13 Jul 2009, 02:56 am
I got #011    8)
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: whubbard on 13 Jul 2009, 03:22 am
John,
It was worth a shot!  :)
Maybe I'll go from the other end and get #100

-West
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: TheChairGuy on 13 Jul 2009, 03:42 am
Hi Boris,

A few questions please...

1.  Is the AudioCircle Limited Edition phono amp available either as MM or MC (as the 'normal' one is)?

2.  What is the MC version resistively loaded at?

3.  Can you tell me / us what gain the MC version is?

Thx, John
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 13 Jul 2009, 10:41 am
Thanks for the interest guys!  :thumb: This is a good place for all the questons. Below are answers to John's.

Later today I will have one post with ordering and tracking info.

1.  Is the AudioCircle Limited Edition phono amp available either as MM or MC (as the 'normal' one is)?

MM and MC  are both available (they are both standard), this should be specified at the time of order (along with desired s/n and shipping address).

2.  What is the MC version resistively loaded at?

Nominal 47.5 ohm. 20 ohm and 100 ohm available on request.

3.  Can you tell me / us what gain the MC version is?

Nominal gain 60dB. This can be increased by up to 6dB if requested (be careful though as there is such thing as too much gain in a phono preamp that limits dynamic overhead). MM gain is 40dB.

Thanks again and spread the good word!  :D
Boris
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: mjosef on 14 Jul 2009, 02:29 am
Hey Boris, I have a question...I see an either/or option but was thinking if its possible to have both MM/MC in one unit with a toggle switch to select either MM or MC???
I have an old PS audio IV pre with that feature.
Just wondering, since I have always been MM but would like to try a MC. In fact I just bought a HO DenonDL160 to see what the MC offers.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 14 Jul 2009, 04:42 pm
Hi Martin,

I opted against building a universal unit  - high quality switches are very expensive, there would be extra wiring with its parasitic inductances and noise pickup (all of that becomes part of the very sensitive input circuit, and every anomaly gets amplified 100-1000 times), case would need to be larger, price higher... not sure how many people actually use that option on a regular basis... perhaps something to consider in the future for a product in a different price range...

For now, I can offer to modify MM to MC (and the other way around) at no charge (except 2-way shipping) should anyone decide to change cartridge type...

Looked up the DL160. That one seems to be designed for DJ applications and MM preamps. And it has output on low end of HOMC carts. And that's what confuses me... DJ phono preamps often have lower gain than hi-fi preamps (35 vs. 40dB), so  lower output voltage on a lower gain preamp would indicate a need to really crank up volume control. I guess it doesn't matter if you have several thousands Watts of installed power.... :scratch:

Back to topic, with 40dB of gain (typical MM) the output may be on the low side (but dynamics will be great). With 60dB (typical MC) the output will be too high to have any decent dynamic headroom. You would probably do good with 46dB of gain and be able to run any standard MM or HOMC cart, including DL160.

Please let me know how does DL160 sound on your PS Audio preamp set on MM and MC (loading may be too low on MC).

Thanks,
Boris

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: toobluvr on 14 Jul 2009, 05:25 pm
Hey Boris, I have a question...I see an either/or option but was thinking if its possible to have both MM/MC in one unit with a toggle switch to select either MM or MC???
I have an old PS audio IV pre with that feature.
Just wondering, since I have always been MM but would like to try a MC. In fact I just bought a HO DenonDL160 to see what the MC offers.



I was wondering the same thing.  It would be nice to have something with lots of flexibility.....and even user selectable cartridge loading.  But looks like Boris goes for the purist and low noise approach.....which I like, if it results in better performance.

Heck, these things are so cheap you can buy both MM and MC for less than the cost of just a decent MM stage.  And buying a completely separate one for MC is even cheaper than adding a bargain basement head-amp or step up transformer to your MM section!
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 14 Jul 2009, 09:56 pm
......Heck, these things are so cheap you can buy both MM and MC for less than the cost of just a decent MM stage.  And buying a completely separate one for MC is even cheaper than adding a bargain basement head-amp or step up transformer to your MM section!

 :D :thumb:

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 17 Jul 2009, 09:48 pm
Did I say that there is no global negative feedback?  :thumb:

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: richidoo on 17 Jul 2009, 10:29 pm
Is their local feedback around the opamps? What kind of caps are you using there to decouple?
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 17 Jul 2009, 11:32 pm
Rich, that is correct - there is a local feedback around the two op-amps. It is used to set the gains of the two stages. In many aspects that is similar to setting the gain of a vacuum tube or transistor stage in circuits with or without negative feedback, except that it's usually not called the local feedback....

There is no capacitive decoupling of the stages. The complete preamp is DC coupled input to output (there are no capacitors in series). Lower end of the frequency range would be 0Hz, if not for the active offset cancellation circuit that does not allow the preamp to have any DC output.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Wayner on 17 Jul 2009, 11:38 pm
Hi Martin,

I opted against building a universal unit  - high quality switches are very expensive, there would be extra wiring with its parasitic inductances and noise pickup (all of that becomes part of the very sensitive input circuit, and every anomaly gets amplified 100-1000 times), case would need to be larger, price higher... not sure how many people actually use that option on a regular basis... perhaps something to consider in the future for a product in a different price range...

For now, I can offer to modify MM to MC (and the other way around) at no charge (except 2-way shipping) should anyone decide to change cartridge type...

Looked up the DL160. That one seems to be designed for DJ applications and MM preamps. And it has output on low end of HOMC carts. And that's what confuses me... DJ phono preamps often have lower gain than hi-fi preamps (35 vs. 40dB), so  lower output voltage on a lower gain preamp would indicate a need to really crank up volume control. I guess it doesn't matter if you have several thousands Watts of installed power.... :scratch:

Back to topic, with 40dB of gain (typical MM) the output may be on the low side (but dynamics will be great). With 60dB (typical MC) the output will be too high to have any decent dynamic headroom. You would probably do good with 46dB of gain and be able to run any standard MM or HOMC cart, including DL160.

Please let me know how does DL160 sound on your PS Audio preamp set on MM and MC (loading may be too low on MC).

Thanks,
Boris

That's because they use PA equipment with high output, lots of distortion. Not like the virtues of fine hifi we are using. Therefore, the lesser output is compensated by the "disco" environment.

Wayner :)
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Mariusz on 18 Jul 2009, 12:18 am
Hi Boris

Is your phono ready? If so, I want one (MM). :drool:

Cheers
Mariusz :thumb:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 18 Jul 2009, 12:45 am
That's because they use PA equipment with high output, lots of distortion. Not like the virtues of fine hifi we are using. Therefore, the lesser output is compensated by the "disco" environment.

Wayner :)

How things change...during my time as DJ we used almost exclusively Phase Linear II and DIY speakers (including humongous subwoofers) with Dynaudio drivers (when audiophiles rock....or disco.... :roll:) - now I'm dating myself, but at least the Phase Linears were not new... :D

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 18 Jul 2009, 12:50 am
Hi Boris

Is your phono ready? If so, I want one (MM). :drool:

Cheers
Mariusz :thumb:

Thanks Mariusz!

I'm taking orders..... please check out the following link for details:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69793.0

Boris
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Mariusz on 18 Jul 2009, 01:21 am
Hi Boris

Is your phono ready? If so, I want one (MM). :drool:

Cheers
Mariusz :thumb:

Thanks Mariusz!

I'm taking orders..... please check out the following link for details:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69793.0

Boris

Thanks Boris

Payment sent.

Mariusz :thumb:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: richidoo on 18 Jul 2009, 01:31 am
Thanks Boris.... Do you use caps in the local feedback loop?
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 18 Jul 2009, 12:14 pm
Thanks Mariusz! Payment received, I will update tracking info later today.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 18 Jul 2009, 12:18 pm
Thanks Boris.... Do you use caps in the local feedback loop?

Hi Rich,

There are no capacitors in the local feedback, just 0.5% resistors to set gain.

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: richidoo on 18 Jul 2009, 12:31 pm
That is cool. This is gonna be goood   8)
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: toobluvr on 18 Jul 2009, 02:05 pm
That is cool. This is gonna be goood   8)

Oh yeah......it is GOOD!     :banana piano:

I've had it for over a week, and because the price is so incredible, I keep waiting for it to fall down and do something egregiously wrong.   So far it hasn't!  Quite the contrary, it continues to impress and gets better as I play it.     :thumb:

This piece defies typical audiophile wisdom in that the performance is waaaaay out of whack with the price....in a good way!   I keep questioning myself "how can this thing be so good for so cheap?"    :scratch:
My audio sensibilities are in upheaval....I'm all confused......I need to unlearn all I've learned!   :o

I know it is a tired old cliche in audio, but in my estimation, it really is a

GIANT KILLER

I'm not saying it is the best phono section in the world, but I am saying that based on the price / expectations / performance / value equation  I can't imagine anyone being disappointed.....and i do mean anyone....even if they are shopping in the $1000 or more range.

 :duel:

It really is that good!  I just wanna keep listening to it.  A very good sign indeed!

~John

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Zero on 18 Jul 2009, 03:51 pm
toobluvr,

I feel the same way about Boris's i34 integrated. Though I mean no disrespect to Jolida, Prima Luna, Anthem, Cayin, and a number of Chi-fi brands out there, the i34 plays in a different ballpark. I only wish I spun vinyl, as I'd love to check out this piece! I'm sure its killer.

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: toobluvr on 18 Jul 2009, 03:59 pm
toobluvr,

I feel the same way about Boris's i34 integrated. Though I mean no disrespect to Jolida, Prima Luna, Anthem, Cayin, and a number of Chi-fi brands out there, the i34 plays in a different ballpark. I only wish I spun vinyl, as I'd love to check out this piece! I'm sure its killer.

Hmmmmm....Interesting that you mention the i34 compared to PrimaLuna.  My GF currently has the i-34 and we are considering a PrimaLuna integrated.

Any comparisons, contrasts, or comments you can provide are greatly appreciated.  Which model PL did you have?

Thx,
John
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Zero on 18 Jul 2009, 04:30 pm
Hello John. 

Since I don't want to derail this thread, I'll be happy to answer your questions via: PM. 
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: toobluvr on 18 Jul 2009, 05:00 pm
Hello John. 

Since I don't want to derail this thread, I'll be happy to answer your questions via: PM.

OK...please do that.

Thanks!
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: richidoo on 18 Jul 2009, 05:46 pm
Though I mean no disrespect to Jolida, Prima Luna, Anthem, Cayin, and a number of Chi-fi brands out there [snip]

That's funny    "Chi-Fi"   :lol:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Zero on 18 Jul 2009, 07:35 pm
*blinks innocently*  :green:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: santacore on 18 Jul 2009, 08:41 pm
Just ordered one. Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: topround on 19 Jul 2009, 02:13 am
Hi,
I ordered one too :thumb:
#2

can't wait..
I got the cables too so I will let you guys know how they compare to the Yamamuras I am using now.

Mike
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: toobluvr on 19 Jul 2009, 06:54 am
Hi,
I ordered one too :thumb:
#2

can't wait..
I got the cables too so I will let you guys know how they compare to the Yamamuras I am using now.

Mike

You will enjoy it Mike.  My personal guarantee!
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 7 Aug 2009, 09:44 pm
Two phono preamps coming with short lead time (3-5 days)!
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 15 Aug 2009, 08:25 pm
Just wanted to let everybody know that I will take a short vacation with sporadic access to computer - my responses will be delayed. My wife will monitor activity from home (yep, it's just me and the kids going away  :thumb:)and let me know if anything's urgent, but in the mean time feel free to browse Phono Feedback thread

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69666.0

and ordering info

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69793.0

There are a few preamps in finishing stages and can be shipped around mid September....

I hope to have some interesting pics upon my return.... have fun everyone  :beer:

Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: doug s. on 29 Aug 2009, 04:24 am
hi boris, a few questions about "special requests"...   8) 

would it be possible to get sockets installed instead of hard-wiring the components that set cartridge loading and gain?  this would make it relatively easy to change, by swapping out resistors/etc, instead of the complicated switches/larger case/etc, that you mentioned would be necessary to change values, w/o compromising sonics.

and, could different resistors be specified, ie: riken-ohm?  might be nice, like for the passive riaa & gain?  what do you think?

finally, would the burson discrete op-amps be a viable replacement to the op-amps you use?

thanks,

doug s.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 29 Aug 2009, 09:04 pm
Hi Doug,

Thanks for the inquiry!

Sockets for the gain and loading are not feasible, as these parts are surface mounted devices (SMD). If a customer changes cartridge to one requiring different gain/loading, these parameters can be changed free of charge. Direct customers only, indirect customers would pay a nominal fee ($50).

Different resistors can be used, but it would be difficult for me to source them in single-unit quantities. If a customer provides them in adequate packaging, I would install them free of charge. For the passive RIAA either SMD or through-hole components can be used.

Burson is not suitable for this application. Definitely not for the first gain stage - there is a chance that they may be used in the second gain stage. Mechanical fit would need to be checked.

Thanks again!
Boris
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: goldlizsts on 16 Sep 2009, 05:28 pm
Hi Boris,

I just dreamed up a question.  Does the phono preamp uses opamps?
 :scratch:
Shek
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 17 Sep 2009, 12:28 am
Hi Boris,

I just dreamed up a question.  Does the phono preamp uses opamps?
 :scratch:
Shek

Hi Shek - yes it does. Complete design details are on the website and on AC.

Best,
Boris
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Sep 2009, 12:16 pm
Count me in.

I want one :D

Mike

Hi Mike,

I thought I'd post here, to thank you for lending me your limited edition VA phono amp.  Your generosity will be reciprocated of course.

I woke up early this morning.  First thing was I jumped out of bed to set up the VA phono stage.  I must admit, this is the first time I got serious, in 10+ years, to get back into vinyl.  So, I dusted up an old LP, David and Igor Oistrakh's Bach violin concertos on DGG.  Dropped the needle (old last generation of Shure V15) down onto the LP.  Out the sound boxes came warm glorious sounds.  After about half hour's listening, here's my take.  The sound is very transparent (more below), and warm.  Spatiality is great, of course.  The shape of the orchestra is very vivid in the space.  I'm not an audio reviewer; my adjective vocabulary is limited :nono:.

The reason I wanted to borrow your VA phono stage is also because I just rediscovered last week my old Lehmann black box from years ago (1st generatiion).  Somehow it fell out of the closet when I was perusing for something else.  So, I was able to A-B listen.  The Lehmann is competent, but it lacks the transparency of the VA.  I also now have to find out how to fix the hum coming off the Lehmann setup.  The AV does not have such a problem, dead quiet.  Even though I rediscovered the Lehmann, now I have a dilemma of whether to commit to an AV, as I mentioned to Boris, since I have been out of the vinyl domain so long.  The lure of the LP sound definitely got me debating myself.

Boris, your AV phono stage got me thinking, thinking hard......  :scratch: :duh: :duh:

Shek
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 21 Sep 2009, 01:17 am

Boris, your AV phono stage got me thinking, thinking hard......  :scratch: :duh: :duh:

Shek

Hi Shek - I like that!  :thumb:

Many thanks for taking time to write the review. Also big thanks to Mike for generously sharing his unit. You guys rock!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 10 Jan 2010, 01:07 am
I stumbled upon this cool paint and had to try it...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25247)

This is an MM version with ACLE-grade parts.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: rollo on 11 Jan 2010, 07:29 pm
Cool it is.


charles
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: BobM on 11 Jan 2010, 07:50 pm
John (toobluvr) let me hear this little gem a short while ago. No, it's not quite a giant killer but I can't think of anything I would want instead for double or triple the price. It should be selling up around the Lehman Black cube price point, and I'm not so sure that it wouldn't trounce that one too.

Nice little product here and certainly a no brainer for anyone in need of something inexpensive that kicks butt.

Enjoy,
Bob
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: toobluvr on 11 Jan 2010, 08:27 pm
That was mine you heard Bob.......or maybe you liked it so much you went back for more!

 :lol:
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: BobM on 11 Jan 2010, 09:15 pm
Yup - you're right John, it was you. My mistake - sorry (and updated above). In any case it is a nice little unit.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: drphoto on 4 Feb 2011, 03:57 am
I know this thread is a little old. Is the AC version still available? I'm thinking I might want to try dedicated phono pre. My Mapletree is a little noisy at the gain required for my Denon DL-160.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: Audiovista on 4 Feb 2011, 12:07 pm
Activity slowed down.... but yes, the AC version is still available, price is the same and lead time is 4-5 weeks.
Title: Re: AudioCircle Limited Edition phono preamp
Post by: etcarroll on 5 Feb 2011, 02:31 am
I know this thread is a little old. Is the AC version still available? I'm thinking I might want to try dedicated phono pre. My Mapletree is a little noisy at the gain required for my Denon DL-160.

I was just lent a VA phono 1 to use in place of the TEC TC760lc I bought from you, and so far the Phono 1 is superior. Running an ancient Denon DP52f with a new Ortofon MC 25E cartridge.