[Willie Gee]

I'm in a bit of a conundrum. 

I have had mid-fi to reasonable hi-fi gear for most of my adult life.  I tend to shop around alot, listen ALOT, and then purchase once.  My speakers get replaced every so often, and unfortunately my current speakers died of unnatural causes  (My 2 year old son knocking one off the stands).  They are Acoustic Energy Aespirt 300's on sand filled stands, and I absolutely love them.  They are paired with a Klipsch 150 sub, with a B&K Pro10 pre and HK Citation 24 power amp with an array of nice interconnects.  The listening room isn't the biggest, and the set up is good while not ideal.  It's one of the many compromises of parenthood.  My Children are now 4 and 6 and aren't likely to destroy my equipment, but they do a pretty good job on my wallet.

I have looked and listened for a long time now and nothing has really impressed me.  A new friend told me to check out the Salks and the reviews, support and photos are very impressive.  The HT2-TL I find especially intriguing and I desperately want to listen to them.  The SongBird is much more reasonable, and honestly might be a better match for the equipment upstream.

My concern is that most people on this forum that have the HT2-TLs match them with top notch components.  The "garbage in garbage out" rule may hold true here, and whereas my equipment may not be garbage I've heard what great speakers can do to bad stereos, point out all the shortcomings of your amp and pre-amp purchases.  The AEs sound brillant on my system, my fear is that the HT2-TLs may resent what they are plugged into.  I don't think the SongBirds will have the same issue.  Plus I can purchase the Songbirds within months, whereas it will take a serious marketing campaign on my behalf to justify a $4,000 expense to the wife.

Any advice from my new audio enthusiast support group?

[Big Red Machine]

Both are revealing so I would not let that drive your decision.  Wouldn't you want the best, most accurate speaker you can afford versus one that was covering up your "less than ideal" electronics?

Nothing shameful about the Birds at all and if that is comfortable for the budget then so be it.  They are at different price points because we don't all have the same budgets.

If you want a deal on some red HT2-TL's, let me know, but it sounds like the Birds are gonna be right for you.

[DMurphy]

With the possible exception of the sub, about which I know nothing, your electronics seem fine to me.  IMHO, you only need to lose sleep about amplification if you need a whole lotta juice.  In that regard, the HT2's are more sensitive than the Song Birds and can actually get by with fewer watts, so that wouldn't be an issue.  The HT2's probably are a little more detailed than the SB's, but only a little.  The real difference is in bass impact and extension, power handling, and the superiority of the RAAL tweeter.  I know others think super high end electronics are needed to make the HT2's sing, but that just hasn't been my experience. 

[Kinger]

How about splitting the difference with a set of HT1-TL's or a set of Songtowers?

[winston1156]

How about splitting the difference with a set of HT1-TL's or a set of Songtowers?

Are the ht1-tl's less efficient than the 2's?

[Saturn94]

How about splitting the difference with a set of HT1-TL's or a set of Songtowers?

+1

[Saturn94]

Are the ht1-tl's less efficient than the 2's?

Yes.  The HT1 is also less efficient than the SongTower.  The difference is about 3db.  While this may not sound like much, remember to achieve a 3db increase in volume requires twice the power.  So in this case the SongTower (and HT2-TL) would require about half the power to reach the same sound level as the HT1-TL.

[DMurphy]

Are the ht1-tl's less efficient than the 2's?

Yes--by something like 5 dB.  I agree that the ST's, perhaps with the RAAL, would seem like a perfect compromise.  Remember--there will be a sub in line. 

[Saturn94]

Yes--by something like 5 dB.  I agree that the ST's, perhaps with the RAAL, would seem like a perfect compromise.  Remember--there will be a sub in line.

You beat me to it.

Just checked and it looks like the SongBird (84db) is a little less efficient than the HT1 (85db), which makes the SongTower (88db) and even more attractive option.

[Willie Gee]

 

Great responses so far!  I'm not going for out and out volume as much as a pleasurable listening experience.  The Citation 24 is quite underrated at 100RMS, I believe mine is a bit of a factory freak as the volume never goes past halfway.  In high school (Yes I've had the amp since then) I DJ'd dances in the gym with this amp and Infinity SM150s.  Even with the tiny AE 300s there is simply too much sound to stand at full volume.  It's less about the raw power, and more about the speakers being finicky with what's upstream from them.  This is often the case.  I have found it better to have a properly matched system than a mix of highly rated equipment that don't get along, but I also believe that sound is like pizza; some people like onions and others don't.  We ALL have our personal tastes and preferences.

What I was looking for here was "The HT2s HATE old integrated amps like your Citation"  or, as the designer of the speaker write "You should be fine with that set up."  But the SongTowers remain an option.  Ideally I'd like to bring my set up and give a listen. 

Anyone live in central florida?  I'm in New Smyrna Beach.

[Saturn94]

According to this owners list on another thread ( http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88740.0 ) there are 2 SongTower owners in FL willing to offer an audition.

edit:  Looks like one owner is about 2.5 hrs from you and the other about 1 hr.  I would certainly recommend you try to arrange an audition.

[Willie Gee]

 

Thanks!  I must try before I buy.

[Big Red Machine]

Thanks!  I must try before I buy.

You could just trust us!   I'm up to 5 models of Salks notched so far.  Still have my eye on some birds someday.  But Sound Scapes first.

[jd3]

I've got a pair of SongBirds currently hooked up to a Pioneer 1120 receiver as mains in my HT room.  I'm really not sure how much power it really puts out, but I doubt it's anywhere near what your Citation provides.  I've got to turn the volume up more than with my old 200 wpc Outlaw amp, but the Birds perform fine.  I had them in my old main system when I had SongTowers, and the ST's are definitely more efficient, but in direct comparison I think the SB's image better than the ST's, and to me, they have better detail than the ST's.  They are a wonderful speaker. 

[DMurphy]

I've got a pair of SongBirds currently hooked up to a Pioneer 1120 receiver as mains in my HT room.  I'm really not sure how much power it really puts out, but I doubt it's anywhere near what your Citation provides.  I've got to turn the volume up more than with my old 200 wpc Outlaw amp, but the Birds perform fine.  I had them in my old main system when I had SongTowers, and the ST's are definitely more efficient, but in direct comparison I think the SB's image better than the ST's, and to me, they have better detail than the ST's.  They are a wonderful speaker.

Which ST's did (do) you have?  The ones with the old CA15 woofers or the more recent ER15 wood pulp cones? 

[davidrs]

I'm in a bit of a conundrum. 

I have looked and listened for a long time now and nothing has really impressed me.
 

Willie:

Can you provide some more detail around what in particular hasn't "really impressed [you]."

And more on what impresses you?

Might help with providing more specific guidance and feedback.

- David.

[jd3]

Which ST's did (do) you have?  The ones with the old CA15 woofers or the more recent ER15 wood pulp cones?

Dennis,
I had a pair of the first few Jim made...so the old ones.

[DMurphy]

Dennis,
I had a pair of the first few Jim made...so the old ones.

I suspected that.  The newer ones sound much more like the SongBirds because of a little smoother output in the 1k-2k region thanks to the ER15.

[nyc_paramedic]

My concern is that most people on this forum that have the HT2-TLs match them with top notch components.... 

...Any advice from my new audio enthusiast support group?

Fisrt, as a HT-TL2 owner, I can honestly say that the $4000 you will spend on the TL2 will be a worthwhile longterm investment. This is a speaker that one can keep for a very long time before one thinks he needs to upgrade. Also, keep in mind that you're paying an Internet direct price, i.e., no dealer markup. The quality and fidelity of a comparable speaker will easily cost double Jim's asking price. And, I concur with the Audioholics review of the HT-TL2 (posted in a sticky in the main Salk forum) when compared to the Songtowers, as I have heard both: The HT2-TL are in different league than the Songs --midrange, bass, transparency, etc.

Second, if you're smart and do your research, you can pair the HT2-TL with equipment from other small, quality companies that offer superior products minus all the commercial advertising/marketing costs, some of which also sell directly to consumers. To name a few that I have experience with or have heard wonderful things about: Placette Audio, Audio by Van Alstine, Quicksilver Audio, Pass Labs. And there are others. A specific example would the direct sales company Placette audio; they allow a 30 day in home audition of their passive and active preamps. And, even though the Placette is a steal at $1000 new, I was able to snag one on Audiogon for $500 in mint condition.

Third, be smart and scout sites like Audiogon or your local audio clubs for equipment being sold used. There are other audiophiles who are never happy and have money to burn, and you should take advantage of the plethora of near new, high quality equipment being offered on the used market. Find a local audiophile club where you can listen to or borrow equipment.

Lastly, it is my opinion that if one spends buckets of hard earned monies on excellent speakers and gear and neglects room treatment and placement then one will still be an "audiophile" but he will never enjoy music. Especially if you have a smaller room, you need to look at effective bass traps of the like of GIK Acoustics or Real traps. Or, if you're handy, build your own traps. Traps are not sexy, like wires or tubes, but treating your room should be of the utmost priority to get the most out of your loud speakers. The Salks will reward you with a literal jaw-dropping in a properly treated room. I would rather have the Songs in a treated room than the TL2's in an untreated room, if you get my drift.

Please take a look at the the RealTraps website for some very informative information. Link: http://www.realtraps.com/index.htm

I have TL2's in New York City. If your near the tri-state area, PM me.

Sincerely,

Nick

[floresjc]

My concern is that most people on this forum that have the HT2-TLs match them with top notch components.  The "garbage in garbage out" rule may hold true here, and whereas my equipment may not be garbage I've heard what great speakers can do to bad stereos, point out all the shortcomings of your amp and pre-amp purchases.  The AEs sound brillant on my system, my fear is that the HT2-TLs may resent what they are plugged into.  I don't think the SongBirds will have the same issue.  Plus I can purchase the Songbirds within months, whereas it will take a serious marketing campaign on my behalf to justify a $4,000 expense to the wife.

Any advice from my new audio enthusiast support group?

My opinion is this: the speakers are by far the weakest link in the audio chain. As a first cut, power is important in terms of quantity, you want to have sufficient power to drive whatever you purchase. Depending on the speaker it could be 50W or 500W. Once you have quality speakers and adequate power, you can worry about making the transition into what I'd call 2nd order effects, like buying botique power, going from a cheap Yamaha amp to something like a piece of AVA gear.

I have both HT2-TL's and SongTowers, and I've had them both hooked up to mid range stuff. For quite a while, I was using an Outlaw receiver at 65wpc with the SongTowers. My front end wasn't very good, I was using an iPod and the built in cheapo 25 cent dac it has. But you know what, the Salks (HT2-TL and SongTowers) both sounded great. Do my Salk speakers sound better now that I have 8 grand worth of AVA electronics? They sure do, but it doesn't negate the fact that they sounded great before I had that other stuff.

If your concern is to run the speakers to their fullest potential, then someday you are probably going to want to go whole hog with a high end power set up and front end. But Salks by no means require that to be enjoyable in the mean time.

Myself, I consider HT2-TL's the pinnacle of Salk engineering for what I would call the common audiophile. They are expensive, but they aren't so expensive a guy with this kind of hobby couldn't save up for. They will last a *long* time, it may be the last speaker you ever buy. They are pretty easy to drive power wise for a speaker of its range. They have *excellent* reach on the high and bottom end. They are easy to place in a room and their basic design and veneers are wife friendly. They are heavy and well made, when you plunk down that kind of cash, you want to be able to see and feel the quality. Are there better speakers? Yes, there are. But HT2-TL is where it all kind of comes together as a value for me. The SongTowers are certainly no slouch either and easier to drive than SongBirds. If I were you, I'd either save for the HT2-TL, or swap out your SongBird selection for the SongTowers.