AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Circles => Hypex Owners Circle => Topic started by: jtwrace on 5 May 2012, 12:11 pm
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Welcome to the new Owners Circle of AC. The Hypex Owners Circle!
This is a place where we can talk about all Hypex products.
Please make sure to follow the AudioCircle guidelines: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42856.0
Hypex Website: http://www.hypex.nl/
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I hadn't paid any attention at all to Hypex until a few weeks ago. Now my interest is piqued.
Congrats on the circle and good luck with it.
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Glad to see this circle. I think Hypex Owners Circle was the right call. And while I'm not an owner yet, it's just a matter of time. :D
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Jason...Thanks for being the facilitator of this new circle. :D. One thing that could be be beneficial for future owners of these amps, could be a sticky on different sources for chassis'/enclosures.
Regards,
Randy
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Jason,
CONGRATS on the new Circle. I am looking forward to hearing the NCores, and maybe demoing them in biamp mode someday.
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Jason, congrats on the circle. Hope to hear some OEM info in the future.
Mark
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Cool, have fun guys. If the designer would chime in that would be a great addition to the circle.
Not an owner of any Hypex products. Ya never know.
charles
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Cool. So I gather this circle is an owners thread for Hypex products and not to discuss other switching amp typologies? Thanks.
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Well, there are four of us listening to a couple of Hypex Ncore amps right now, on loan from some guy, can't quite remember who. All NJ guys so it's almost Greetings fro Asbury Park time.
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from some guy, can't quite remember who
:lol: Let's all give a big round of applause to jtwrace for his generosity and for taking on the Facilitator duties for this exciting new circle.
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Well, there are four of us listening to a couple of Hypex Ncore amps right now, on loan from some guy, can't quite remember who. All NJ guys so it's almost Greetings fro Asbury Park time.
Sounds like a great time :thumb:
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Sounds like a great time :thumb:
Yes, enjoy fellas! Jtwrace is a gem for lending those amps out indeed. Thanks for moderating too!
Anand.
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Thanks for getting this going, Jason. I'm looking forward to contributing soon as an owner with an amp in hand vs. parts on order. :thumb:
Perhaps some of the owners who hang at diyaudio will join in.
Phil
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If anyone is interested, I just found a Munich show report with Mola Mola pricing. The pair of mono block NC1200s is $13,000 and the pre is $8,500. :o That's with today's Euro conversion.
Guess I'll be diy with the NC400s, not that I'm unhappy. :wink:
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I guess Mola Mola is out of my price range. I figured they would be half of that price. Theta looks to be much more reasonable now since they have the killer looks to add to it.
Thanks Jason for what looks to be a very interesting circle.
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I wonder how long it will be before the NC400 & SMPS600 go up in price or do you think the prices will stay the same for a while.
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I wonder how long it will be before the NC400 & SMPS600 go up in price or do you think the prices will stay the same for a while.
Honestly, I don't imagine them going up because they are targeting 2 different groups. They are catering to diyer's (who are great at spreading the word), and then there are those who wouldn't dream of touching a soldering iron and have a very large disposable income.
If you look at how the prices of the UCD stuff has stayed relatively the stable over time, it makes more sense. They have been selling to the DIY market for years.
It still makes one feel a little uneasy as you want to get the most for your investment, and not lose out. :?
I would imagine that they may change their diy price structure if they get a lot of negative feedback from OEM's. One example is if diy'ers start selling their NC400's to those buyers who would get a Mola type amp. Again, I don't imagine that happening. We tend to be a reclusive bunch, and build for our own selfish customary motives. We are inclusive to those who are ready to shovel some poop so to speak.
With all that being said, the diy aspect of the NC400 is very, very little. All the work has been done. Just need to drill out a chassis, throw some connectors, dribble some solder and away we go.
FWIW, YMMV, etc...
Best,
Anand.
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If anyone is interested, I just found a Munich show report with Mola Mola pricing. The pair of mono block NC1200s is $13,000 and the pre is $8,500. :o That's with today's Euro conversion.
Guess I'll be diy with the NC400s, not that I'm unhappy. :wink:
Hi Chris
The Mola-Mola prices you've quoted in $ aren't quite correct because you converted the euro price including the Dutch 19% VAT so for example the power amps are 5000 euros each including 19% VAT and if exported to the US they would be 4200 euros or approx $5500 each. Although, don't quote me 'verbatim' because when I spoke to Jan-Peter on Thursday in Munich, he hadn't decided on an official US price just yet.
We, however, have been given the green light to release mono power amps using NC1200 modules and we are full steam ahead with plans to do so and will make announcements on our web site in due course. We anticipate sub $10K per pair to the US.
Cheers
John Young
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It's too bad there are no manufacturers building amplifiers with the NC400 rather than the NC1200. I think there's a market for the lower end who would prefer a finished unit rather than picking up the soldering gun and drilling holes, regardless of how easy it might be. For example, while I certainly *could* put together a PC myself using readily available parts (motherboard, hard drive, case, CPU, memory modules, etc), I'd rather buy from Dell, HP, etc.
When I last exchanged email with Dusty at Channel Islands a few weeks ago, he said he had no current plans to adopt the NCore line and he was sticking with UCD for the foreseeable future. Of course, he may have just been playing coy.
Perhaps the NC1200 OEM pricing is only slightly more than the NC400 direct to consumer pricing. That would certainly explain things, although wow, that would be quite the gross margin we're seeing on NC1200 based amplifiers.
Once the NC400 modules are no longer back ordered, I'd expect someone surely will start buying NC400 modules and sell finished amplifiers, perhaps building them as a side business in their spare time.
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It's too bad there are no manufacturers building amplifiers with the NC400 rather than the NC1200. I think there's a market for the lower end who would prefer a finished unit rather than picking up the soldering gun and drilling holes, regardless of how easy it might be. For example, while I certainly *could* put together a PC myself using readily available parts (motherboard, hard drive, case, CPU, memory modules, etc), I'd rather buy from Dell, HP, etc.
When I last exchanged email with Dusty at Channel Islands a few weeks ago, he said he had no current plans to adopt the NCore line and he was sticking with UCD for the foreseeable future. Of course, he may have just been playing coy.
Perhaps the NC1200 OEM pricing is only slightly more than the NC400 direct to consumer pricing. That would certainly explain things, although wow, that would be quite the gross margin we're seeing on NC1200 based amplifiers.
Once the NC400 modules are no longer back ordered, I'd expect someone surely will start buying NC400 modules and sell finished amplifiers, perhaps building them as a side business in their spare time.
From Jan-Peter's mouth last Thursday in Munich.... he is adamant that NC400 is for DIY customers only and he will not allow them to be built commercially. I think they (Hypex) would be smart enough to spot multiple buying patterns........ 25.5 surround system?....Hmmmmm :nono:
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Hi Chris
The Mola-Mola prices you've quoted in $ aren't quite correct because you converted the euro price including the Dutch 19% VAT so for example the power amps are 5000 euros each including 19% VAT and if exported to the US they would be 4200 euros or approx $5500 each. Although, don't quote me 'verbatim' because when I spoke to Jan-Peter on Thursday in Munich, he hadn't decided on an official US price just yet.
We, however, have been given the green light to release mono power amps using NC1200 modules and we are full steam ahead with plans to do so and will make announcements on our web site in due course. We anticipate sub $10K per pair to the US.
Cheers
John Young
Will there be US distribution or company direct sales only?
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Silly question I know, but where would one go to buy the modules, and what are the exact DIY instructions to follow? Has this been written up somewhere for non electrical engineers?
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Silly question I know, but where would one go to buy the modules, and what are the exact DIY instructions to follow? Has this been written up somewhere for non electrical engineers?
See here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105438.0
Best,
Anand.
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Hi Chris
The Mola-Mola prices you've quoted in $ aren't quite correct because you converted the euro price including the Dutch 19% VAT so for example the power amps are 5000 euros each including 19% VAT and if exported to the US they would be 4200 euros or approx $5500 each. Although, don't quote me 'verbatim' because when I spoke to Jan-Peter on Thursday in Munich, he hadn't decided on an official US price just yet.
We, however, have been given the green light to release mono power amps using NC1200 modules and we are full steam ahead with plans to do so and will make announcements on our web site in due course. We anticipate sub $10K per pair to the US.
Cheers
John Young
Thanks for that info. Looking forward to see what actually shows up in the North American market.
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The Mola pre with the integrated D/a looks interesting Bruno spoke of releasing a D/A module and DSP module, These + the NCore could be great for the DIY community.
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From Jan-Peter's mouth last Thursday in Munich.... he is adamant that NC400 is for DIY customers only and he will not allow them to be built commercially. I think they (Hypex) would be smart enough to spot multiple buying patterns........ 25.5 surround system?....Hmmmmm :nono:
So are you saying that if I am paying someone to build me a pair of NC400 monoblocks (I buy parts: basic enclosure, module and ps...he does labor) that it is possibly a contract violation, let alone warranty one? Furthermore, even if the answer is no, at what level does DIY become commercial if this builder decides to do, say, a few a week? I'm not trying to be pedantic here. Just trying to understand the lines of demarcation, cuz $2k (rounded) investment is not chump change, regardless
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So are you saying that if I am paying someone to build me a pair of NC400 monoblocks (I buy parts: basic enclosure, module and ps...he does labor) that it is possibly a contract violation, let alone warranty one? Furthermore, even if the answer is no, at what level does DIY become commercial if this builder decides to do, say, a few a week? I'm not trying to be pedantic here. Just trying to understand the lines of demarcation, cuz $2k (rounded) investment is not chump change, regardless
The intention is that the units built are for personal use not for commercial resale. What they don't want you building 20 units and selling them to others commercially and competing with their OEM.
I would suspect there are legal reasons for this also. IF you are selling a product commercially (OEM) there are safety requirements and testing that don't apply to an DIY'er. If a DIY customer were to resell a product that didn't undergo safety testing and harm resulted there could be legal laibility for HYPEX. One of the reasons an OEM based product will be more expensive.
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So are you saying that if I am paying someone to build me a pair of NC400 monoblocks (I buy parts: basic enclosure, module and ps...he does labor) that it is possibly a contract violation, let alone warranty one? Furthermore, even if the answer is no, at what level does DIY become commercial if this builder decides to do, say, a few a week? I'm not trying to be pedantic here. Just trying to understand the lines of demarcation, cuz $2k (rounded) investment is not chump change, regardless
No, that wasn't what I was trying to say. As far as I understand what Jan-Peter is saying, he has no problems with guys helping DIY end users to build the NC 400's into working amps and of course, paying someone to do the assembly is OK and if the users buy the amps from Hypex in the usual way the 'assembly guy' could presumably just supply the enclosures and the labour.
What JP is trying to deflect is companies such as us at Acousticimagery buying NC400 for resale in commercial products. My answers here are as a result of me asking JP if I could do just that and he flatly refused and said I had to use NC1200's... :D
In my opinion, it's obvious that NC amps of various sizes and power will find their way into the Hypex's OEM inventory in time, but that time is not now as they are real busy at the moment.
I hope that explains the situation as I see it and this was discussed at length with JP and Bruno last Thursday in Munich. They really are nice guys and they appreciate all the help they get from the DIY community however, in turnover terms that part of Hypex's business is not very big and they also must remain loyal to their commercial customers of which we are but one small one.
John
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The intention is that the units built are for personal use not for commercial resale. What they don't want you building 20 units and selling them to others commercially and competing with their OEM.
I would suspect there are legal reasons for this also. IF you are selling a product commercially (OEM) there are safety requirements and testing that don't apply to an DIY'er. If a DIY customer were to resell a product that didn't undergo safety testing and harm resulted there could be legal laibility for HYPEX. One of the reasons an OEM based product will be more expensive.
I agree, there's also that aspect of it and I know only too well how much all the 'red tape costs.
John
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The intention is that the units built are for personal use not for commercial resale. What they don't want you building 20 units and selling them to others commercially and competing with their OEM.
I would suspect there are legal reasons for this also. IF you are selling a product commercially (OEM) there are safety requirements and testing that don't apply to an DIY'er. If a DIY customer were to resell a product that didn't undergo safety testing and harm resulted there could be legal laibility for HYPEX. One of the reasons an OEM based product will be more expensive.
Kevin,
I understand all that. But NC400's in any box color and flavor won't compete with the OEM's cuz the OEM's will be using NC1200's.
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I agree, there's also that aspect of it and I know only too well how much all the 'red tape costs.
John
John, are Jan Peter making modules available for D/a converters, DSP yet?
They seem to be in the pipeline?
I understand if there are NDA's that prevent an answer.
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Kevin,
I understand all that. But NC400's in any box color and flavor won't compete with the OEM's cuz the OEM's will be using NC1200's.
IIRC the NC1200's are 300w/8ohm, the NC400 200w/8ohm which is only a 2db difference. So there could be a lot of overlap IMO.
I would think there will be more modules over time, they seem to be working hard to meet the demand for their NCore modules which may be exceeding their expectations, they still offer the UcD modules for OEM and Diy use.
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I understand all that. But NC400's in any box color and flavor won't compete with the OEM's cuz the OEM's will be using NC1200's.
In terms of sound quality they should compete very well. The NC400 has fully discrete circuitry vs the IC's of the NC1200, they also have a bit lower distortion ratings, of course the extra bit of power from the 1200 may be mandatory for some folks.
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In terms of sound quality they should compete very well. The NC400 has fully discrete circuitry vs the IC's of the NC1200, they also have a bit lower distortion ratings, of course the extra bit of power from the 1200 may be mandatory for some folks.
That's precisely my point. Hypex has drawn a very clear simple line between OEM's and DIY, the model number. Yet most of us are finding out (without hearing the NC1200's) that at least on paper the DIY boxes at $1500-2000 (built monoblocks) will be very tempting vs the slicker well-built $10-12k amps (this is 5X-6X $$ difference). So the temptation to create a 20 module/week DIY build business is pretty high.
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@ted_b I think I agree with you but just to wrap this up. Official OEM's or more correctly VAR's (Value Added Resellers) who have access to Hypex products at sliding quantity discounts are asked by JP not to purchase NC400/SMPS. By the way, we see no discount on the price when we log in. I think if we did try to bulk buy we'd pretty soon be ex OEM's! Also remember that we still use UcD's and some 'unofficial' repackager of NC400's would certainly compete with us. DIY is just fine because it helps to spread the word by anecdotal experience to those who would never consider self building a hi fi. Those guys are our potential customers.
@kevinh I don't know because we did not discuss it. Only power amps.
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Congrats on the new circle! Timely and will surely prove to be helpful to all those intrigued by this excellent new product....
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Those of us who have committed to the NC400 amps must all be thinking the same thing I've been thinking......what preamp will not hamper the performance of my amplifiers? (when I get them)
I bought a Jeff Rowland Capri in anticipation and intend to start with that but my thoughts are already on how to afford the Mola Mola preamp.
Does anyone have other suggestions? I want minimum 4 imputs, nice remote control that does more than volume up and down, and would like on board phono and DAC. My Capri already fills all of those requirements except for the DAC.
I already know about THE DUDE but I'm turned off by the lame remote and the size of the unit. Plus it has no phono.
Am I right that you have been thinking about this too? What will you use?
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That's precisely my point. Hypex has drawn a very clear simple line between OEM's and DIY, the model number. Yet most of us are finding out (without hearing the NC1200's) that at least on paper the DIY boxes at $1500-2000 (built monoblocks) will be very tempting vs the slicker well-built $10-12k amps (this is 5X-6X $$ difference). So the temptation to create a 20 module/week DIY build business is pretty high.
I completely agree Ted but as John said, Hypex makes it very clear that it's not an option. My post was from a purely technical perspective. :)
I have little doubt that someone will try and bend the rules and hopefully that won't screw it up for everyone else. As John mentioned earlier, I doubt there is a problem with a DIY type assembling a few amps for private parties who can't do so themselves as long as they don't try and make a business out of it.
Mike
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In my humble opinion, there would be no harm felt or offense taken in circumstances where an individual buys himself a kit and engages the services of a fellow hobbyist to assemble that kit.
Why would Hypex be concerned about who does the soldering?
If that same hobbyist began buying kits and selling finished product on the open market, I think that would be a clear violation of the spirit of DIY and might incite Hypex in a manner that we all would regret.
The control over this should lie in restrictions on the number of pieces available to any customer. If an individual is limited to six amplifier boards, he won't be able to establish much of a business nor corrupt the system appreciably.
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macrojack
You are absolutely correct except that you question, "Why would Hypex be concerned about who does the soldering?".....They aren't.
2nd paragraph.....I agree 100%
3rd paragraph......I don't think, as I've said previously, that Jan-Peter and Hypex are so naive that they wouldn't be able to spot a 'rogue entrepreneur' and distinguish them from the genuine multi channel/bi-amp/tri-amp hobbyist.
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rogueaudio.com (http://rogueaudio.com) is using Hypex UcD modules in their Medusa and Hydra two-channel amps, both of which sport tube input stages. Nice layout (see the photo on the Medusa/Hydra page) and reasonable prices compared to other fully assembled amps using Hypex modules. Two reviews noted, one print only, the other with a link.
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Those of us who have committed to the NC400 amps must all be thinking the same thing I've been thinking......what preamp will not hamper the performance of my amplifiers? (when I get them)
I bought a Jeff Rowland Capri in anticipation and intend to start with that but my thoughts are already on how to afford the Mola Mola preamp.
Does anyone have other suggestions? I want minimum 4 imputs, nice remote control that does more than volume up and down, and would like on board phono and DAC. My Capri already fills all of those requirements except for the DAC.
I already know about THE DUDE but I'm turned off by the lame remote and the size of the unit. Plus it has no phono.
Am I right that you have been thinking about this too? What will you use?
I've been pretty impressed with the transparency of my Horn Shoppe photocell volume control/buffer pre. It's called The Truth. Of course, I'm curious if a good tube buffer, perhaps the battery Dodd one might be up to the task.
I've ordered the Ncore modules and power supplies, so I'll find out whenever they arrive and I assemble them with my very meager DIY and machinist skills and tools.
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I've been pretty impressed with the transparency of my Horn Shoppe photocell volume control/buffer pre. It's called The Truth. Of course, I'm curious if a good tube buffer, perhaps the battery Dodd one might be up to the task.
You will most certianly want the most transparent that you have.
Please be sure to post some photos of your build in the "Show Us Your Core-NCore!" thread.
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It won't be very pretty, given my skills and tools, but I'll try to take some pics. I might try to repurpose an old amplifier chassis at first rather than buying new.
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It won't be very pretty, given my skills and tools, but I'll try to take some pics. I might try to repurpose an old amplifier chassis at first rather than buying new.
It will sound the same though. :P
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Just received notification that mine are on the way :rotflmao:!!! Can't wait to get started on them.
Mark :thumb:
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Just received notification that mine are on the way :rotflmao:!!! Can't wait to get started on them.
Mark :thumb:
Congrats! :thumb:
I sure do look forward getting my second pair.
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Just received notification that mine are on the way :rotflmao:!!! Can't wait to get started on them.
Mark :thumb:
When did you order yours?
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Yeah, I was thinking the same. Just need to figure out the best search terms for a non-working amp on eBay, craigslist, etc...
It won't be very pretty, given my skills and tools, but I'll try to take some pics. I might try to repurpose an old amplifier chassis at first rather than buying new.
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Yeah, I was thinking the same. Just need to figure out the best search terms for a non-working amp on eBay, craigslist, etc...
I need to scrounge through my parents' basement. I think I have a few old pieces down there I could remove all the innards. Actually, one of them is an 70's radio tuner that might look kinda nice on my shelf. Hmm, gotta see what I can come up with there before hitting Ebay.
Good luck with your search :thumb:
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genjamon,
I ordered them March 24th, week 18 ship date.
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Here's a question for those who have already received their NC400s.
I remember someone mentioning being hit with a $70 Customs COD on delivery. Was that your experience? I want to know what to anticipate just because I'm like that.
Naturally I won't be refusing them because of that charge.
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Here's a question for those who have already received their NC400s.
I remember someone mentioning being hit with a $70 Customs COD on delivery. Was that your experience? I want to know what to anticipate just because I'm like that.
Naturally I won't be refusing them because of that charge.
Yes and no legal way around it.
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Are you implying there are illegal ways?
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Here's some reading on the fees.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs/fees.html
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When I put my order in, I seen nothing about a customs COD charge.
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When I put my order in, I seen nothing about a customs COD charge.
That's because it's not done on their (shipping) end. It's your responsibility. No big deal though.
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Your right not a big deal but I would have given the UPS person a funny look when he/she ask me for $70 bucks.
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Your right not a big deal but I would have given the UPS person a funny look when he/she ask me for $70 bucks.
Understood.
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My NCores shipped today. I want to thank the AudioCircle community (and jwtrace in particular) for the many, many reviews of the NCores that helped me make the decision to order. Looking forward to the build!