BAT/Wilson Show

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KeithR

BAT/Wilson Show
« on: 24 Feb 2005, 10:54 pm »
Since it's buried in a few threads.

THIS SATURDAY, Februrary 26th, 2005

1-3pm

System:
Denon 3910-->BAT 300x-->BAT 75SE-->Wilson Sophias

Please PM for address/telephone.  Feel free to bring other components (John anyway you could lug a BPT?) except cables.

Cheers,

Keith

Mad DOg

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BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #1 on: 24 Feb 2005, 11:43 pm »
Keith,

You're using the analog outputs on the Denon 3910? Has it been modded at all? If it's not modded, are you satisfied w/ the sound the 3910 is giving you? I know you have discriminatingly high standards when it comes to audio. After all, you did own the Linn Unidisk player and I know there is no way a stock 3910 is anywhere close to being in the same league as the Linn.

Hajime Sato

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #2 on: 25 Feb 2005, 12:38 am »
I've already PM'd Keith but I'm coming.
Very interested in hearing the entire lineup, and especially the Denon because I've ordered it and am waiting for it to arrive!

John Casler

Re: BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #3 on: 25 Feb 2005, 12:39 am »
Quote from: KeithR
Since it's buried in a few threads.

THIS SATURDAY, Februrary 26th, 2005

1-3pm

System:
Denon 3910-->BAT 300x-->BAT 75SE-->Wilson Sophias

Please PM for address/telephone.  Feel free to bring other components (John anyway you could lug a BPT?) except cables.

Cheers,

Keith


I can bring either the BPT 3.5 or the Son of Ampzilla.

John Casler

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #4 on: 25 Feb 2005, 12:43 am »
Quote from: Hajime Sato
I've already PM'd Keith but I'm coming.
Very interested in hearing the entire lineup, and especially the Denon because I've ordered it and am waiting for it to arrive!


Anyone know where we can get the Onkyo SPV1000 to audition/compare to the Denon?

I hear "mixed" reports about this unit.

Hajime Sato

Carpool?
« Reply #5 on: 25 Feb 2005, 07:15 am »
Sorry, I don't know about the Onkyo, John.

BTW, is anyone going to Keith's place from Orange County? I'm looking for someone to carpool with. (I live near "5" in Tustin.)

MaxCast

Re: BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #6 on: 25 Feb 2005, 11:27 am »
Quote from: John Casler

I can bring either the BPT 3.5 or the Son of Ampzilla.


Awh, come on John, you have two arms  :P

John Casler

Re: BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #7 on: 25 Feb 2005, 04:04 pm »
Quote from: MaxCast
Quote from: John Casler

I can bring either the BPT 3.5 or the Son of Ampzilla.


Awh, come on John, you have two arms  :P


Sad to report :(   I lost both arms in a deep sea accident several years ago.
(involving a shark, octopus and mermaid, but I'll spare the details)
The arms I have now are 18" prosthetics, and are only rated for up to 59# :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

It was either go for the look, or go for the function.  I chose look 8)

KeithR

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #8 on: 25 Feb 2005, 05:52 pm »
Quote from: Mad DOg
Keith,

You're using the analog outputs on the Denon 3910? Has it been modded at all? If it's not modded, are you satisfied w/ the sound the 3910 is giving you? I know you have discriminatingly high standards when it comes to audio. After all, you did own the Linn Unidisk player and I know there is no way a stock 3910 is anywhere close to being in the same league as the Linn.


Nope, not yet.  Not crazy about big money on digital these days.  May order a Benchmark or Pro Audio DAC to experiment with.  That said, i think preamp/amp is way more important and is the direction I have headed (with limited funds)

I have a friend having it APL modded and should get to here that as well.

BTW, I ordered a BAT 51SE preamp today :)

Mad DOg

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BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #9 on: 25 Feb 2005, 06:32 pm »
Quote from: KeithR
Nope, not yet.  Not crazy about big money on digital these days.  May order a Benchmark or Pro Audio DAC to experiment with.  That said, i think preamp/amp is way more important and is the direction I have headed (with limited funds)

I have a friend having it APL modded and should get to here that as well.

BTW, I ordered a BAT 51SE preamp today :)

having messed around w/ the Benchmark and being somewhat familiar w/ your tastes, i can tell you that you wouldn't be pleased with the sound...

while the preamp and amp are very important, i still do think the source is equally important if not more so as any system is always limited by the weakest link...and your source is at the beginning of that link. just like it doesn't matter how awesome the rest of your system sounds, if the software is poorly recorded and mastered the system will still sound like crap.

Russtafarian

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  • Typical reaction to the music I play
BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #10 on: 25 Feb 2005, 07:16 pm »
Sounds like I'm going to miss out on a great afternoon.  I'd be there if I wasn't headed out to Fon-tucky to watch cars drive around in circles all day.  :roll:

Enjoy!

Russ

KeithR

Re: BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #11 on: 26 Feb 2005, 12:46 am »
Quote from: John Casler
Quote from: KeithR
Since it's buried in a few threads.

THIS SATURDAY, Februrary 26th, 2005

1-3pm

System:
Denon 3910-->BAT 300x-->BAT 75SE-->Wilson Sophias

Please PM for address/telephone.  Feel free to bring other components (John anyway you could lug a BPT?) except cables.

Cheers,

Keith


I can bring either the BPT 3.5 or the Son of Ampzilla.


Since you might be selling me a BPT in the future, perhaps that's best :)

John Casler

Re: BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #12 on: 26 Feb 2005, 05:27 am »
Quote from: KeithR
Quote from: John Casler
Quote from: KeithR
Since it's buried in a few threads.

THIS SATURDAY, Februrary 26th, 2005

1-3pm

System:
Denon 3910-->BAT 300x-->BAT 75SE-->Wilson Sophias

Please PM for address/telephone.  Feel free to bring other components (John anyway you could lug a BPT?) except cables.

Cheers,

Keith


I can bring either the BPT 3.5 or the Son of Ampzilla.


Since you might be selling me a BPT in the future, perhaps that's best :)


I'll have it neatly tucked under my arm 8)

I'll PM you for your new address and phone

See ya tomorrow

John Casler

And what a "SHOW" it was!!
« Reply #13 on: 27 Feb 2005, 03:11 am »
Well the Denon/Wilson/BAT show was today.

First I want to thank Keith for a great listening session.  

I have been looking forward to hearing the Wilson Sophias, ever since I heard he had ordered some after moving into his new "digs".

Some time ago I heard the Puppies and while they sounded good, I wasn't raving about how good they were for $24K.  Many have said that the Sophia's sounded better.

Did they?

I was first to arrive, luggin my BPT Signature 3.5 which must weigh 85# if it weighs an ounce  :?

Keith's new place is great.

I would guess about 25' x 25' x 9' as a general space, but with many openings that don't presurize it as a closed room would.

The Wilsons are just sitting there about 7-8 feet apart (I am totally guessing) and about 5-6 feet out from the wall.  They are an "Arctic Silver" and still had the protective plastic on them.  They were sitting on the floor unspiked, and slightly toed in.

Between then lies the big 75 wpc BAT tubed power amp which I think was pushing them through Acoustic Zen Cables.

The Front End was the Denon 3910 and the BAT preamp.

So I deposit the freakin BPT on the floor and hand Keith a recently burned Reference Disc, to get things rolling.

On comes Hugh Masekela doing Coal Train (Stimela) and I'm thinking they "do" sound a lot like the Puppies I heard at Brooks Berdan.

Now I have my reference system set up to basically make all the room boundaries disappear and detail and resolution are pristine.

Keith's room on the other hand has beautiful hardwood floors and nery a treatment of any kind so I wasn't expecting the quite the same imaging and detail I was used to, and that is about how it was.

Masekela's voice was more distant and the instruments were spead out and also more distant, than my Reference.

I was thinking to myself that in this untreated room it was certainly very enjoyable.  It had adequate highs, great smooth midrange, and fairly good bass.

We listened to a couple more cuts, and I found the performance of the system very good, but I had to say that it was a little fuzzy in the imaging and the intruments, while tonally correct, were slightly soft in the edges.  I put this down to two things.  1) The room was very live and everything was being reflected all over the place.  2) This was a "tubed" system and that generally softens edges a bit.

Then Hajime arrived, and we played a few more cuts.  I have to say that at this point the Puppies (as I remembered them were running "neck and neck" with Keith's Sophias, with an ever so slight lead in the bass department.  Tough to make that call since "NONE" of the music was the same.

On top of that, the rooms were entirely different.  Keith's was a good example of a very nice Home room. while the Watt Puppies were in a professionally designed commercial environment, so even considering the price difference ($13K vs $24K) these Sophias were keeping up quite well.

OK, as it was, Keith wanted to hear if the BP 3.5 Signature made a difference in his system, so we unplugged it all, and placed the 3.5 in the PowerLine.

We fired everything back up and I warned Keith that it might take a while for the transformer in the 3.5 to "fully charge" back up and it might take a while for it to sound it's best.

We decided to go through some of the same cuts again, starting with Hugh Masekela again.....Holy freakin Beejesus :o  :o  :o

The difference took me only 15 seconds to hear.  It was quite evident that "Things Had Changed".

NOW we had clear "solid" images and soundstage.  The sonic fog was now gone and the instruments and voices were ever so much more clear and resolved.  Each sound had edges (borders) as it came out of basic blackness.

This was my kind of sound.  I like imaging, resolution, clairity and 3-D depth.  Well here it was. Oh Yeah 8)

Cut after cut, and song after song, it was there, and as I mentioned about the transformer charging up, it was getting better every cut we played.

I won't say the difference was "startling" but it certainly was clearly evident.

Keith, Hajime, and myself just kept looking at each other somewhat amazed at just how good things were begining to sound.

So Keith asks if we would mind helping him "spike" the Sophias.  Each Sophia weighs 160# with a very slick featureless finish, which means no hand holds, making spiking a speaker on a wooden floor a real adventure for a single person.

So we spiked them one at a time and decided to fire them up for anothe listen to see if even the spiking might make a difference.

Well hold on to your horses, it DID, with a capital D!!!

Hello Bass quality all over again.  They now reached lower, and played tighter than before, by a good margin.  

Dynamics (even in the mids) was now improved to a clear and noticable degree.  Those two simple changes made this a different system, than what I heard when I walked through the door.


Keith was all smiles :mrgreen:  as well he should have been.  This system had transformed itself, inspite of the room acoustic limitations.

That is one way I measure how good a system sounds.  If it makes me smile, then I know I am listening to something special.  We were all smiling by now  :)  :D  :P :mrgreen:

It was sounding much like the way I know I like a system to sound.

Did it sound as good as the Puppies in the Pro Room?  Are you kidding?  It spanked that much more expensive system all over the place.

On top of that, even at loud levels it was relaxed, and quite good tone wise.

I have to admit it was sounding very good.  I was pleased to hear it because even though I was impressed from the very begining, it now sounded as good as only a handful of systems, I have heard in private residences.

And the good thing is, Keith has several things he can do acoustically that will move it up even another notch.

This was one great listen, and I look forward to hearing where it might go from here.

I think Hajime also was very impressed, but I'll let him speak for himself.

We did most of our listening in the sweet seat, each spending time there and then switching off.

Definately a fun time.

Thanks Keith, . . and Hajime nice seeing you again.

So in conclusion, the Denon/BAT/Wilson show turned out to be a very nice session indeed.

Mad DOg

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BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #14 on: 27 Feb 2005, 06:20 am »
sounds like you guys had a great time! only 3 people???  :o  man, if i didn't have so much yard work to get caught up on, i might've considered dropping by since i would've loved to hear the sophias...

John Casler

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #15 on: 27 Feb 2005, 06:45 am »
Quote from: Mad DOg
sounds like you guys had a great time! only 3 people???  :o  man, if i didn't have so much yard work to get caught up on, i might've considered dropping by since i would've loved to hear the sophias...


They were "smokin" :smoke:

Hajime Sato

Wilson Sophia & BAT session
« Reply #16 on: 27 Feb 2005, 08:58 am »
Keith, thanks for a great listening session! I was mighty impressed by your system, and you have an awesome place, too! :D

John has already written his impressions in great detail and I totally agree with them. I have very little to add, honestly, but here's what I thought.

When I came in (a little late), the session was well underway. The sound I heard first (before BPT and spiking) was powerful and detailed, very nice. But I was a bit taken by how "live" the room was compared to mine, feeling that the reflections might be muddying the sound a bit.

Also, depending on the source material, sometimes the sound tended to be "stuck" around the speakers and I felt a little uncontrolled boominess in the mid-bass and bass regions.

Then came the BPT power conditioner. As John wrote, and everyone agreed, there was clear change for the better that was discernible within 10 seconds. The background was blacker and each sound element stood out more clearly and vividly. Sound image came into sharper focus, too. Wow! :D

Then the spiking. Wow again! :D   The bass became much tighter and more tuneful. Everything became clearer. As I mentioned, I felt that the speakers began to "sing" more freely, resulting in even bigger soundstage, more precise imaging and greater dynamics.

At this point, I was having goose bumps. :mrgreen:

The BAT electronics were great. The VK75SE was much bigger than I imagined and sounded fabulous: very powerful yet tuneful, no excessive "tubiness." I also thought the Denon 3910 was more than adequate (remember, I was having goose bumps), especially shining with SACDs.

Keith, you have a great system!! :thumb: It was a wonderful experience for me to listen to the Sophias, the BATs and the Denon. Thanks again for your hospitality and great selection of music. It was nice to see you, too, John.

KeithR

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #17 on: 1 Mar 2005, 01:19 am »
Thanks guys!  Great comments, and great company.  I was like a kid in a candy store after we made the two switches.  Wow!  All of us were just jammin' to the music.

Amazing difference in sound quality (and John, listening later on I missed the BPT sorely)

When I get my BAT 51SE and BPT in the next few weeks, hopefully I can schedule some more time with others.  I also will add some room treatment in the interim, as John alluded too, it's somewhat difficult.  The big, big rug should help tremendously as we discussed.

Anyways, thanks!  See you guys soon!  

Keith

JoshK

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #18 on: 1 Mar 2005, 02:01 am »
Congrat on your amp Keith.  Looks like you are assembling the system of your dreams.

KeithR

BAT/Wilson Show
« Reply #19 on: 2 Mar 2005, 02:31 am »
Thanks Josh, hopefully will post up some pictures once the preamp and BPT come in.

It's nice to reach somewhat of an end (4 years trying different stuff to really hone in on it) to the sound I want.  

BAT/Wilson is very synergetic, and it shows.  Perhaps Maxx2s if I get rich one day :)