[BrandonB]

I know very little about electronics as well, but I'm not bad at connecting dots.  I listen, then connect more dots. If I still had my Magnepan 3.7i speakers, I wouldn't hesitate to try the Tyr amps.  In fact, I almost did.  The choke input helps with dynamics as it's an extra transformer, instead of power supply caps.  It's an "old school" way of doing it, and more costly.  I would not buy Tyr amps for use with NX-Otica or NX-Treme.

I am going to buy an Aegir 2 when it's released, and I don't need it.  I think it's very different and I want to try it.  If I had a pair of NX-Otica and were starting from scratch, I would buy one of those and let the subs take care of themselves. If I liked the Aegir 2 sound quality (which is the ONLY reason I am buying one... I think it's going to be excellent) and wanted more power, I'd buy a second one and run them as mono blocks.  100w/ch into NX-Otica would be good enough for most people.  If I still wanted more power, I would sell the NX-Otica, buy The Bully, Tyr, and admit to myself that I want an AC/DC concert in my living room. 

Actually, you still wouldn't need to buy Tyr amps with The Bully... you've still got the high sensitivity advantage and just running the MTM, and you've got a servo sub built in.

I'm drifting away from speakers that "need" a bunch of power to drive them. I don't listen at high levels... but the stuff I have right now will still JAM and put on a show...

I went back last night and found the Schiit YouTube talking about the Aegir2.  They seem pretty excited about this new amp and at that price it is really affordable.  A set of those amps with the Rhythmic open baffles subs on the NX-otica's looks pretty good.  Do you think that your Ayre equipment sound similar to the tubes you like?

[BrandonB]

Nelson Pass introduced a new design variant of the F5 at Burning Amp last year. He calls it the F5m, I think the m standing for "minimum cost" or something like that. It is a very simple circuit that is more second harmonic prominent, and has no capacitors in the circuit. Here's the schematic of the basic circuit.



There will be a kit available on diyaudiostore.com, expected in the next week. This would be a great design to start with.


I am working on a build based on this design, using my own custom PCBs. My design adds some additional features including a DC Servo circuit, an optically coupled speaker protection circuit, and a balanced input. I'm building two stereo amps to try biamping my Line Forces.

I have to ask.  Do you have a background in electronics/electrical engineering? 

[mkrawcz]

Nelson Pass introduced a new design variant of the F5 at Burning Amp last year. He calls it the F5m, I think the m standing for "minimum cost" or something like that. It is a very simple circuit that is more second harmonic prominent, and has no capacitors in the circuit. Here's the schematic of the basic circuit.



There will be a kit available on diyaudiostore.com, expected in the next week. This would be a great design to start with.

I am working on a build based on this design, using my own custom PCBs. My design adds some additional features including a DC Servo circuit, an optically coupled speaker protection circuit, and a balanced input. I'm building two stereo amps to try biamping my Line Forces.

If yours works out, will you consider selling the PCBs?

[Jaytor]

I have to ask.  Do you have a background in electronics/electrical engineering?

I am an EE, but spent my early career doing digital electronics (mostly computer graphics and super computers), then senior management. For the last 20 years, I've run a cycling ecommerce business and written a crap load of software for public facing websites and back-end business management.

I did a little analog circuit design in college and my first job back in the late 70s, but it's only been the last several years that I've gotten back into building audio gear and doing some of my own design work.

[Jaytor]

If yours works out, will you consider selling the PCBs?

I don't think I want to sell PCBs, but I'd be happy to provide the gerber files so you can order your own. My boards are four layer with a full ground plane, so they are a bit more expensive. With the options I used - 2oz copper for all layers, 1.6mm PCB thickness, HASL surface finish, they cost about $100 for five boards from JLCPCB.

With the additional features I added, this design will be a bit more expensive than the base design that will be offered by the diyaudiostore, particularly if you populate the Jensen transformer for balanced operation.

[BrandonB]

I am an EE, but spent my early career doing digital electronics (mostly computer graphics and super computers), then senior management. For the last 20 years, I've run a cycling ecommerce business and written a crap load of software for public facing websites and back-end business management.

I did a little analog circuit design in college and my first job back in the late 70s, but it's only been the last several years that I've gotten back into building audio gear and doing some of my own design work.

That makes sense.  If I could go back again EE would be the path I would probably take.  Interesting you have a biking website.  I am what you call a Clydesdale 6'4 260.  I purchased a Specialized Roubaix about 5 years ago.  I love biking but the seasons here go from very cold and windy to very hot quickly. 

[Jaytor]

That makes sense.  If I could go back again EE would be the path I would probably take.  Interesting you have a biking website.  I am what you call a Clydesdale 6'4 260.  I purchased a Specialized Roubaix about 5 years ago.  I love biking but the seasons here go from very cold and windy to very hot quickly. 

I'm not exactly a lightweight, as you can see from my avatar image (riding up Mt. Ventoux), but not as tall as you.

[BrandonB]

I'm not exactly a lightweight, as you can see from my avatar image (riding up Mt. Ventoux), but not as tall as you.

Funny story. I have a friend who biked most of his adult life.  Was hit and ran over by a car while riding and lived.  Said he had a friend when he was younger that bought a bike and  road ten miles or so  mostly down hill.  He turned around and came back uphill.  When he got  home he never got back on the bike again and sold it.  That was the funniest biking story I had heard especially if you are a  big guy.   

[mkrawcz]

I am an EE, but spent my early career doing digital electronics (mostly computer graphics and super computers), then senior management. For the last 20 years, I've run a cycling ecommerce business and written a crap load of software for public facing websites and back-end business management.

I just started getting into Kubernetes clustering which is making my 20 years of IT engineering experience obsolete.

[jmimac351]

I love my bike!

Lake Apopka Wildlife Drive is 10mins from the house. 50+ miles of gravel.  Gators EVERYWHERE...





I even found a nice kickstand for the bike at the track!  Ha!

[jmimac351]

Personally, I think the best of both worlds is to use a zero-global-feedback SET amp for the upper bass on up and use an amp with a high damping factor for the lower bass.

I 100% agree.  And my additional preference is to play with 2-way speakers (coherent, proper tool for their job) blended with subs (proper tool for its job) for similar reasons.  However, the scale and presentation of larger speakers can be fun too, as long as you can do something about tuning the bass.

[jmimac351]

I don't think I want to sell PCBs, but I'd be happy to provide the gerber files so you can order your own. My boards are four layer with a full ground plane, so they are a bit more expensive. With the options I used - 2oz copper for all layers, 1.6mm PCB thickness, HASL surface finish, they cost about $100 for five boards from JLCPCB.

With the additional features I added, this design will be a bit more expensive than the base design that will be offered by the diyaudiostore, particularly if you populate the Jensen transformer for balanced operation.

Thank you for sharing this about that new First Watt amp!  I'd be interested in the boards you're working on, especially if they add balanced connection.

For those interested, here is a link to a pdf about the amp: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/f5m-diy-amplifier-pdf.1264396/

So, this is another example of how I keep going down the path I like, and keep putting dots together.  In that thread, Nelson Pass mentions the Damping Factor of that amp being 50.  When he is asked about the sound of the amp, he mentions this.  So, I see things like Damping Factor of 50 (lower than MANY amps), and I see comments like this about the sound.  So, if you like something that sounds like this, perhaps it's a good idea to look for that.  Then, get something that fits that description, listen to it, and if you like it... you keep going. 

That's the path I'm on, and I've yet to find a reason why I'm on the wrong path, for me.  It seems Nelson Pass and I agree.

And for this amp, there are specific reasons for "why", e.g., Damping Factor.  If someone has a piece of gear and you're not sure why you own it, why it's better than something else for your tastes... maybe you should eyeball it and figure out the "why".

[Tyson]

I am not a fan of the original F5.  It was the worst sounding of all the First Watt amps I'd heard.  It was as close to a Bryston type sound that Nelson ever got.

[BrandonB]

Do preamps have a damping factor or negative feedback?  My layman's mind thinks that a line stage would not have much if any.

[BrandonB]

I love my bike!

Lake Apopka Wildlife Drive is 10mins from the house. 50+ miles of gravel.  Gators EVERYWHERE...





I even found a nice kickstand for the bike at the track!  Ha!

You have all the bases covered on fun stuff!

[mkrawcz]

For future amp DIYers, the nice thing about the Aleph J kit from DIY Audio Store is that they make it easy for someone new to DIY. The amp is not hard to build. And their universal chassis already has all the holes drilled and tapped for the PCBs. The other thing about it is that it's extremely reliable. The chances of it blowing up are slim compared to many chip amps.

[Jaytor]

I am not a fan of the original F5.  It was the worst sounding of all the First Watt amps I'd heard.  It was as close to a Bryston type sound that Nelson ever got.

Yeah, I wasn't that happy with the original F5 sound. This design seems to have a different distortion spectrum so I'm hoping it sounds more to my liking.

[jmimac351]

I went back last night and found the Schiit YouTube talking about the Aegir2.  They seem pretty excited about this new amp and at that price it is really affordable.  A set of those amps with the Rhythmic open baffles subs on the NX-otica's looks pretty good.  Do you think that your Ayre equipment sound similar to the tubes you like?

I guess I could answer this in different ways, but I'll say this - if I were starting from scratch, I would buy my Ayre gear to begin with.  It's the best solid state I've ever heard. I have owned and spent a lot of time with:

-Conrad Johnson (tubes)
-Krell
-Coda
-Threshold
-Pass Labs - including Class A mono blocks
-Marantz
-Joule Electra (tubes)
-Yamaha
-Mark Levinson
-Odyssey
-Aesthetix

My Ayre equipment, in my opinion, is more musically satisfying than any of those listed.  Others may have different opinions / experiences.  The circuit design is unique... "Diamond Circuit" based on an old design.  I think one other manufacturer uses the Diamond circuit - darTZeel.  Looking at one of their amps... Damping Factor = 25.  So, another clue.

It makes my Ayre stuff seem cheap: https://dartzeel.com/nhb-108-model-two/

[Jaytor]

Do preamps have a damping factor or negative feedback?  My layman's mind thinks that a line stage would not have much if any.

Virtually all solid state preamps use negative feedback. Many tube preamps do as well, but not all. For example, the new Raven preamp developed by Lynn Olson and Don Sachs that will be built and sold by Spatial Audio does not use any global negative feedback.

I have a BAT preamp that I am working on fixing (bought a broken one that the previous owner didn't want to deal with) that doesn't have negative feedback either.

I am also working on building a couple new preamps - one completely of my own design and another that is based on the Vacuum State RTP-3D - that don't use any negative feedback.

So they do exist.

Damping factor is a term used to describe how well an amplifier can handle varying reactive load impedance. This is generally not an issue for a preamp (unless, perhaps, it is also designed as a headphone amp). It's actually defined as the ratio of the load impedance to the amplifiers output impedance. Generally, the load impedance a preamp sees is fairly high (10K or more), so the damping factor will generally be a large value.

[Early B.]

My Ayre equipment, in my opinion, is more musically satisfying than any of those listed.  Others may have different opinions / experiences.  The circuit design is unique... "Diamond Circuit" based on an old design.  I think one other manufacturer uses the Diamond circuit - darTZeel.  Looking at one of their amps... Damping Factor = 25.  So, another clue.

About 10 years ago, I had an Audio GD amp with a diamond circuit:  http://audio-gd.com/Pro/amp/SA300SE/SA300SEEN.htm