Squeezebox Touch released today

chadh · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 Apr 2010, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 12 Apr 2010, 09:15 pm

Chad:
The netbook w/SSD wasn't free was it? How are you going to utilize a SqueezeBox Touch w/ your present setup?

You're right. The netbook wasn't free. It was about the same price as a Squeezebox Touch. And I'm not currently planning to use a Squeezebox Touch. But that was my point, really: that one can achieve the same goals (good sound, with low noise) without heading down the squeezebox route.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not anti-squeezebox. I used one for over four years, very happily. I wish I could make Foobar on my netbook as user-friendly as I found the squeezebox. Ultimately, my biggest issue with the squeezebox was that it was a relatively cheap piece of consumer electronics, and the technology in use was being upgraded so fast that I couldn't possibly afford to keep up. Now, a few hundred bucks every couple of years for a new squeezebox isn't such a big deal. But when one's modded units won't hold resale value because the technology keeps improving, and one needs to get the mods/power supply upgrades etc to maintain the quality of one's audio output, then upgrading squeezeboxes becomes an expensive proposition. Especially when the basic units are cheap gadgets that are liable to break relatively easily.

The transporter looks like a nice, relatively high-quality option that is likely to hold resale value. But it's also expensive. When I got a great deal on a great USB DAC, I decided to head in that direction. So now, I have most of the relevant functionality of the Touch (no touch screen for me, or hi-res capabilities) - and the likelihood of having to upgrade cheap laptops/netbooks every now and again and/or upgrading high quality, well produced DACs.

We'll see if I stick with that approach for four years or not.

Chad

Syrah · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 Apr 2010, 09:11 pm »

I recall reading that one of the beta testers managed to program it to use the USB port as a USB digital out to a DAC. I think that is a particularly exciting prospect. I'd be interested to find out how it might sound plugged into a dbs DAC for example, or better still the next generation of 24/96 DACs that come along.

bhobba · « **Reply #42 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 12:08 am »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 12 Apr 2010, 05:36 pm

If you music library is on your computer, you computer will have to be turned on. If you library is on an external hard drive, you can plug that directly into the Touch and it will be able to access it. It will need 10% of the hard drive space to write it's database info.

True - but be careful. I just had it confirmed some audio formats can only be played when you are using slimserver so you can not play it via the usb port. That includes monkey audio and musepac. Flac and MP3 work fine that way though. For my listening habits I have a whole heap of music stored as musepac which is far superior to any other compression technology IMHO. My really precious stuff I have as FLAC. What I plan is to move my FLAC to a USB drive and play it separately from my compressed audio when I do critical listening. But for normal listening will run an Ethernet wire form a computer in another room.

Also from what I can gather you may need a separate power supply for your USB drive - but the info seems to be a bit equivocal about it. That reminds me to do a post to the squeezebox forum to get the full skinny.

Thanks
Bill

Phil A · « **Reply #43 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 01:27 am »

I took a look in Best Buy today just to see if they had one. They did a web search and apparently April 18 Best Buy will be getting them.

bhobba · « **Reply #44 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 02:24 am »

Quote from: Syrah on 13 Apr 2010, 09:11 pm

I recall reading that one of the beta testers managed to program it to use the USB port as a USB digital out to a DAC. I think that is a particularly exciting prospect. I'd be interested to find out how it might sound plugged into a dbs DAC for example, or better still the next generation of 24/96 DACs that come along.

Yep - you can do that and its not that hard either. But from what I can gather there is really no point to it. The only upside is you can connect asynchronous USB DAC's to really eliminate jitter. Those that have tried it however report the gain is very slight over using the SPDIF. The SPDIF output is that good.

Thanks
Bill

bhobba · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 08:53 am »

Quote from: bhobba on 14 Apr 2010, 12:08 am

Also from what I can gather you may need a separate power supply for your USB drive - but the info seems to be a bit equivocal about it. That reminds me to do a post to the squeezebox forum to get the full skinny.

Just got a response from the squeezebox forum. There are limitations - up to and including 32gb is fine - beyond that is a problem.

Thanks
Bill

ebag4 · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 12:33 pm »

Quote from: bhobba on 14 Apr 2010, 08:53 am

Just got a response from the squeezebox forum. There are limitations - up to and including 32gb is fine - beyond that is a problem.

Thanks
Bill

Are you sayng that you can't use a HDD larger than 32gb connected directly to the Touch or are you saying that if you do it will need to be powered separately?

Thanks,
Ed

ajayrav · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 12:52 pm »

Actually, my impression was that it was a 32G limit on thumb drives. People have used portable HDs such as the Samsung S1 (250G) and a 640G Toshiba (Can't recall the model #) plugged directly into the Touch. Both of these, and there are others, are powered by USB and do not require a separate wall-wart/ USB powered hub.

Ajay

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 06:26 pm »

Quote from: bhobba on 14 Apr 2010, 02:24 am

The SPDIF output is that good.

Is it better than the duet's SPDIF output?

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #49 on:** 14 Apr 2010, 06:36 pm »

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 14 Apr 2010, 06:26 pm

Is it better than the duet's SPDIF output?

I've read that yes, it is. I'll compare them when mine arrives.

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #50 on:** 17 Apr 2010, 03:03 am »

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 14 Apr 2010, 06:26 pm

Is it better than the duet's SPDIF output?

I compared the digital out of the Touch to that of a SB3; the Touch is clearly better. The Touch sounds better through its analog outs too. Not as good as when its digital out is sent to my DAC, but pretty terrific for a $299 box.

Install went smoothly, interface is nice too.

stlblue · « **Reply #51 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 05:39 pm »

Bump for more thoughts on the Touch, please.

bprice2 · « **Reply #52 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: Steidl Guitars on 17 Apr 2010, 03:03 am

I compared the digital out of the Touch to that of a SB3; the Touch is clearly better. The Touch sounds better through its analog outs too. Not as good as when its digital out is sent to my DAC, but pretty terrific for a $299 box.

Install went smoothly, interface is nice too.

I've been using a Bolder modded SB3 for a few years and have been using the analog outs exclusively. If memory serves correct, the stock analog out was pretty awful. So, when you say the analog out of the Touch is better than the SB3, by what magnitude? Maybe there is a DAC or CDP you could compare it to? I'd love to hear more about the sound of the Touch with its analog outs, including the potential for making it better with mods and tweaks. It would be nice if the Touch analog outs could be made good enough so as to be a cost efficient means to avoid buying an expensive DAC.

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #53 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 07:29 pm »

I've never listened to a Bolder modded squeezebox, so I can't compare.

I compared (1) a stock SB3, (2) a stock Touch, and (3) a stock SB3 through its digital out to an EE DAC, and (4) a stock Touch through its digital out to an EE DAC.

I'd say that sound quality followed my list above, from lowest to highest.

The Touch through its analog outs is excellent for its price, a clear step up from the SB3 when used the same way. And it also is better than the SB3 when used as a digital transport to feed a DAC, which is how I use it.

Is the Touch through its analog outs as good as a high quality a high quality DAC? Nope, but remember, the Touch costs less than $300; for that price, it's terrific. For me, the stock Touch through its analog outs would be plenty good for use in my bedroom system.

I've read (on Slimdevices forum) of a few people who were running the SB3 through a DAC who sold their DAC when they got the Touch, as they felt the difference was small enough to not merit keeping the DAC. Of course, we'll all have a slightly different take on all of that, but I felt the Touch was well worth the price, even when used only as a digital transport. Heck the Touch costs less than a great many digital cables!

I gave my SB3 to a friend and she loves it; it's a great device.

bprice2 · « **Reply #54 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: Steidl Guitars on 25 Apr 2010, 07:29 pm

I've never listened to a Bolder modded squeezebox, so I can't compare.

I compared (1) a stock SB3, (2) a stock Touch, and (3) a stock SB3 through its digital out to an EE DAC, and (4) a stock Touch through its digital out to an EE DAC.

I'd say that sound quality followed my list above, from lowest to highest.

The Touch through its analog outs is excellent for its price, a clear step up from the SB3 when used the same way. And it also is better than the SB3 when used as a digital transport to feed a DAC, which is how I use it.

Is the Touch through its analog outs as good as a high quality a high quality DAC? Nope, but remember, the Touch costs less than $300; for that price, it's terrific. For me, the stock Touch through its analog outs would be plenty good for use in my bedroom system.

I've read (on Slimdevices forum) of a few people who were running the SB3 through a DAC who sold their DAC when they got the Touch, as they felt the difference was small enough to not merit keeping the DAC. Of course, we'll all have a slightly different take on all of that, but I felt the Touch was well worth the price, even when used only as a digital transport. Heck the Touch costs less than a great many digital cables!

I gave my SB3 to a friend and she loves it; it's a great device.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I'd be curious to know if anyone out there has compared the Touch digital out and their favorite DAC to a computer (Mac Mini?) and their favorite DAC.

TJHUB · « **Reply #55 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 12:43 am »

I've been reading all this great stuff about the Touch, so I figured I pick one up and give it a listen.

I received the Touch today and got it up and running with the only issue being that I needed to run the newest version of Squeezebox Server to get FLAC working on the Touch. No biggie.

The Touch appears to be a very nice piece of hardware handling it and using it. It comes off as costing more than the relatively modest $299.00 cost. But as my audio rack is about 12 feet from my listening position, the small screen is basically useless to me. I can read the track info, but I can't see the artist or album names. However, this feature is not why I wanted to try the Touch, it was the reported "better" sound quality through its digital outs.

I've been listening to the Touch for the last couple of hours now. I've compared the analog outs to the digital outs into my modded Music Hall DAC. I'm using my Duet's digital outs into my DAC for a baseline.

The Touch's analog outs are definitely better sounding than my Duet's analog outs. I couldn't use the Duet's analog outs unless I was in a pinch, but I find the Touch's analog outs very listenable if not good. The main issues are that the overall tonality is a bit off giving it a "cheap" sound, there is a sort of distortion that comes across as a slight howl, and the sound stage is very smeared.

The Touch's digital out into my DAC is FAR better. The Touch sounds more open and revealing than my Duet's digital outs. The overall tonality is still a bit off to my ears. It just doesn't sound as realistic as my Duet. If I just listen to various tracks, I don't ever really get that "hey, this sounds fantastic" thought like I clearly do with my Duet. The Duet seems more balanced sounding with a blacker background and more microdynamics. Lightly played cymbals come across more clearly with the Duet as well. Overall, the Touch does nothing for me for improving the sound. I just switched back to my Duet and I find that sound very engaging and I don't get that from the Touch at all.

I do plan to give the Touch a better chance and I need to just keep comparing for the next week or so, but my first impression is that the Touch is going back. I also really wish the display was more usable from a distance, but since I use my laptop to control these devices 99% of the time, this isn't a huge deal to me.

So I guess I'm one of the few going against the masses on this one...

Gopher · « **Reply #56 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 12:50 am »

You aren't alone in being a bit disappointed with the touch. I haven't tried the analog outs, but purchased it for the sole purpose of acting as a transport to my Eastern Electric DAC. I feel like my Duet + Parts Express may have sounded slightly better as a transport than the Touch with stock PSU and that I didn't actually "upgrade" with this purchase.

I have ordered an Elpac psu though which is being shipped to Wayne right now for modification. I'm hoping with a fancy PSU I'll share everyone else's excitement, but for the time being my Philip 963SA sounds better as a transport and my turntable trumps both.

mchuckp · « **Reply #57 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 01:29 am »

I've had my Touch since it was released. It's definitely a nifty little device. I briefly owned a Duet and didn't like it. Wasn't a fan of the remote, hated being tethered to my computer, and analog outs were subpar (at this time my DAC was on loan to a friend for an extended period). Since the sound quality was far below that of my Oppo bdp83 SE, I never used it.

I've done some comparisons of the Touch to my Oppo via analogs and once again it can't keep up with the Oppo SE (and really shouldn't). I can definitely say it sounds better than the Duet's analogs. I do feel the Touch through analogs is pushing the low end a bit and I'm not liking that. As a few others have said, in a modest set up the Touch is GREAT for the PRICE. I'm already thinking of another to run solo in my kitchen. On a more "reference" type set up, it is lacking without a DAC.

I ended up selling my DAC that was on loan (PS Audio DLIII) and preordering the Wyred4Sound DAC-1. My Touch has been mostly sitting idle since my comparisons the first week just because I don't see a point in using it since I have something that sounds better. My W4S DAC-1 has shipped and will arrive tomorrow. I'll be out of town at AK Fest and can't wait to get back and try it. My goal for a music server has been to have it sound just as good or better than my Oppo SE. Not saying the SE is the end-all of sources out there. But is the best I've owned and really like the sound. Since the W4S DAC uses the higher end version of the ESS Sabre chip, in theory it should sound at least as good and hopefully better.

I plan on doing some straight up comparisons to the Oppo and also check out different file types to see if I can tell the difference to the CD. I've been using Apple Lossless mainly and I'm REALLY hoping that it can match beat for beat the CD counterpart. I really hope the SB Touch>W4S DAC-1 is my ticket to finally having a media server that I like. The functionality of the Touch is really nice. If I can get it to sound great to, I'll be golden. For anyone interested, I can also compare my MacBook through the DAC compared to the Touch just to see if there is a sound quality difference.

More to come... Now off to AK Fest.

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #58 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 02:12 am »

I suspect, as with any component, the appeal will be system dependent.

TJ, if you're driving the Salks in your photo (lovely those), I'm not especially surprised that the Touch doesn't appeal much. I have always found those Seas drivers to be remarkably revealing -- just a little too much for me, actually (shame on me). And if the Touch as transport works in your system as it does in mine, it actually pushes things even further that way; something I would not want with those remarkable drivers. I bet the Duet helps things sound more relaxed.

My speakers are Dynaudio Countours, and are somewhat on the "polite" side, so adding some resolution and edge can sometimes helps, so long as it's not too much.

I'm sure it's more complex than that, but there's a stab at it the ether.

TJHUB · « **Reply #59 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 02:42 am »

Quote from: Steidl Guitars on 30 Apr 2010, 02:12 am

I suspect, as with any component, the appeal will be system dependent.

TJ, if you're driving the Salks in your photo (lovely those), I'm not especially surprised that the Touch doesn't appeal much. I have always found those Seas drivers to be remarkably revealing -- just a little too much for me, actually (shame on me). And if the Touch as transport works in your system as it does in mine, it actually pushes things even further that way; something I would not want with those remarkable drivers. I bet the Duet helps things sound more relaxed.

My speakers are Dynaudio Countours, and are somewhat on the "polite" side, so adding some resolution and edge can sometimes helps, so long as it's not too much.

I'm sure it's more complex than that, but there's a stab at it the ether.

Actually, I think you may have the right idea. I am driving my Salk's pictured. It's been a long journey of figuring out what sounds the most balanced, resolving, and realistic for my speakers. I have honestly been VERY happy with my entire setup with the Duet as my source. I read all the buzz about the Touch and curiosity got the best of me and thought I'd give it a try. I'm not trying to say that the Touch is bad in any way, I just think my setup works much better with my Duet. At least at this point anyway. I do plan to give the Touch more time and I may just listen to it solely for the next week or so and then do another comparison to my Duet. If I feel the same at that point, I'll know what to do.

I do want to experiment with some hi-rez files and the USB functionality of the Touch. However, I have no issue running a dedicated server for my music streamers as I already run one for my PS3 to serve pictures and home videos. It's there, why not use it?