Subwoofer to match M3 Turbo

vmlistening · « **on:** 5 Sep 2023, 08:31 pm »

Hi there,

I'm looking to add a subwoofer to my Spatial M3 Turbo speakers. I have been looking for a sub but most folks have discouraged it saying that these are very high efficiency and fast speakers and most affordable subs (even up to $1500) will not make a difference in sound.
What subwoofers are you using?

And, what to look for in a subwoofer to work with the M3 Turbo
I use a Primaluna Evo 200 tube integrated amp to drive the Spatial.The room is about 16x26.

On a side, I do have someone selling Bob Carver Sunfire architectural subs for $650.

I'd appreciate any feedback and advise on subwoofers.
Thanks in advance,
Vikas

Early B. · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 09:26 pm »

For your room size, plan on eventually acquiring at least two subs. Consider any of the Rythmik Audio offerings.

vmlistening · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 09:57 pm »

Thanks. Looks like that will set me back 2K - almost the cost of the speakers!

Early B. · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: vmlistening on 5 Sep 2023, 09:57 pm

Thanks. Looks like that will set me back 2K - almost the cost of the speakers!

Welcome to high-end audio!

My three subs cost more than my speakers and my room is much smaller than yours.

vmlistening · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 11:50 pm »

geerock · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:00 am »

Years ago I was looking for a sub to compliment my Magnepan 1.7i's and was having a hell of a time. The Maggie's were just too fast for all the common big name recommendations. The harmonics of the sub were lasting too long. Everything was out of whack. Then I was at a dealer with an old time veteran salesman who suggested I needed a smaller driver in a sealed enclosure so that it would damp quicker. I bought a Martin Logan dynamo series with a 10 inch driver in a sealed enclosure. And that was it. It integrated perfectly. And it didn't cost be huge bucks. When I got my X5's, I just changed the crossover point and bit and it was great with those too. I still use this combo to this day, as well as with my Klipsch Cornwall IV.

zybar · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:10 am »

Quote from: vmlistening on 5 Sep 2023, 08:31 pm

Hi there,

I'm looking to add a subwoofer to my Spatial M3 Turbo speakers. I have been looking for a sub but most folks have discouraged it saying that these are very high efficiency and fast speakers and most affordable subs (even up to $1500) will not make a difference in sound.
What subwoofers are you using?

And, what to look for in a subwoofer to work with the M3 Turbo
I use a Primaluna Evo 200 tube integrated amp to drive the Spatial.The room is about 16x26.

On a side, I do have someone selling Bob Carver Sunfire architectural subs for $650.

I'd appreciate any feedback and advise on subwoofers.
Thanks in advance,
Vikas

What are you trying to achieve by adding a sub(s)?

I have used SVS subs (two PB-2000 Pro subs) with my Spatial M3 Turbo speakers, but that was for HT.

Used in that way, I had no problem blending the pair of subs (just took time to find the best placement, crossover points, and settings).

George

vmlistening · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:28 am »

Quote from: geerock on 6 Sep 2023, 12:00 am

Years ago I was looking for a sub to compliment my Magnepan 1.7i's and was having a hell of a time. The Maggie's were just too fast for all the common big name recommendations. The harmonics of the sub were lasting too long. Everything was out of whack. Then I was at a dealer with an old time veteran salesman who suggested I needed a smaller driver in a sealed enclosure so that it would damp quicker. I bought a Martin Logan dynamo series with a 10 inch driver in a sealed enclosure. And that was it. It integrated perfectly. And it didn't cost be huge bucks. When I got my X5's, I just changed the crossover point and bit and it was great with those too. I still use this combo to this day, as well as with my Klipsch Cornwall IV.

Thanks. That's very helpful. I will try to get a hold of a similar one and try.

vmlistening · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:30 am »

Quote from: zybar on 6 Sep 2023, 12:10 am

What are you trying to achieve by adding a sub(s)?

I have used SVS subs (two PB-2000 Pro subs) with my Spatial M3 Turbo speakers, but that was for HT.

Used in that way, I had no problem blending the pair of subs (just took time to find the best placement, crossover points, and settings).

George

I'm using the speakers only for audio and trying to achieve a bit more bass when I play the music that needs it. For the most part I listen to jazz and instrumental that doesn't crave a sub.

vmlistening · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:36 am »

Does anyone have experience with Bob Carver Sunfire True Subwoofer Architectural?

Thanks

Vikas

zybar · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:41 am »

Good in the day, but technologies have substantially improved since it was released.

I would spend a little more and get something much newer.

George

Early B. · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 12:43 am »

Quote from: vmlistening on 6 Sep 2023, 12:30 am

For the most part I listen to jazz and instrumental that doesn't crave a sub.

Since bass is the foundation of music, it's contributing a lot more than low notes. A well-designed system with superb bass will improve all aspects of the sound, including treble. Even if some of your musical selections don't go low, they will still benefit significantly from good subs.

Oh, and search for subs designed for music. Ninety-eight percent of subs on the market are designed for HT. There's a HUGE difference!!!

Tyson · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 03:05 am »

For music I'd go with REL or Rythmik.

lazbisme · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 04:42 am »

for open back speakers, I would consider very strongly the GR Research open back subs. For music and/or HT.

mrotino332 · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 01:48 pm »

I agree Lazbisme. I have the X5s and just for experimentation I inserted by two Rel subs in stereo that I had been using previously and crossed them very low with little output just to see if I preferred the X5s with the subs. I did not, the Rels detracted from the bass quality of the X5s and lacked some definition and speed and add a bit of bloat to the bass as well. Maybe it's my room but if I ever need subs I will also go the open baffle sub route to match the quality of the X5s bass. I do not need any more bass than the x5s put out especially since I can control the amount of bass with the level control and it is more than sufficient for my room.

ric · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 01:51 pm »

Call Spatial and ask what they suggest.
I have been using an older Hsu sub for years with no problems.
good luck!

Mr. Big · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 02:02 pm »

Quote from: mrotino332 on 6 Sep 2023, 01:48 pm

I agree Lazbisme. I have the X5s and just for experimentation I inserted by two Rel subs in stereo that I had been using previously and crossed them very low with little output just to see if I preferred the X5s with the subs. I did not, the Rels detracted from the bass quality of the X5s and lacked some definition and speed and add a bit of bloat to the bass as well. Maybe it's my room but if I ever need subs I will also go the open baffle sub route to match the quality of the X5s bass. I do not need any more bass than the x5s put out especially since I can control the amount of bass with the level control and it is more than sufficient for my room.

I found the same thing and I used to subs from an Electrostatic company Martin Logan Depth-i, They are fast so to keep up with their speakers, I crossed them over at 45Hz, 35Hz, and then 30Hz. No matter how low I went it threw off the superb bass of the Sapphires M3. Just threw the sound out of balance and yes, I could hear more heft below the deep bass of my speakers. the trade-off was not worth it, so they are in my HT system, and they work great there. With my updated room treatments my reproduction has gone up to another level, in openness, and transparency, and the bass is deep, clear, and detailed. They go as deep as needed for 95% of all recordings. They do a kettle drum if he recorded well like it's in the room. An organ can pressure the room now.

zybar · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 02:08 pm »

Quote from: lazbisme on 6 Sep 2023, 04:42 am

for open back speakers, I would consider very strongly the GR Research open back subs. For music and/or HT.

Agreed.

I have a pair (2 woofers in each) that isn't working that I really need to fix them.

George

kd4ylq · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 03:07 pm »

I also have the M3 Turbos and listen to music exclusively (no HT), the same sort of material you enjoy. Be sure to search for music subwoofers primarily. Yes, technology in that area has improved very substantially over time, but on a limited budget you can still get where you want to be with the sound. I use an old (but beautiful) Janis subwoofer from the era when they invented that genre of equipment. I had to repair the matching 100W amplifier, but it has provided me with countless hours of satisfying deep bass that does justice to both acoustic double bass and synthesizer. Spend what you are comfortable with and upgrade as you feel the need and have the extra money. I do really like the H-frame open baffle systems I've seen and might build a pair for myself someday to save a bunch of money vs. commercial off the shelf products.

James Edward · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 03:42 pm »

I use a pair (started with one for about a year) of Hsu ULS-15 MK2's with great results. Sealed box. I have the M3 Turbos also. I cross them over at 50Hz in my room.