Listening fatigue

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genjamon

Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #20 on: 11 Dec 2022, 07:39 pm »
He’s not talking about the Sapphires. He has the original M2, and these have a dramatically different high frequency driver - a pro audio compression tweeter concentrically mounted within a 12” woofer.

speavler

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #21 on: 11 Dec 2022, 07:52 pm »
The plot thickens...

Have you experimented with turning the subs off? Four 18" subs sounds like there could be a lot of infrasonic sound. You will not hear it but eardrums will feel it, those little guys may be overworked.

Good point. The Antimode dual core does have an infrasonic filter but it is disengaged by default. I just enabled it at 15 Hz.  Also when I swap in the Lores in a few days I’ll leave the subs completely off for awhile.

owlpalace

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #22 on: 6 Feb 2023, 04:03 pm »
Would love to hear about any updates on this experience for you...? I have a pair of Spatial M4 Turbo S's and love the sound, presentation, immersion but feel the same as you - ear-fatigued after extended listening. Wondering if it would remedied by going with a newer Spatial model, or moving to a different design altogether?

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #23 on: 6 Feb 2023, 08:37 pm »
I own the Sapphires M3s and no fiatque unless I play the newer sound of over-processed, tip-up forward highs and booming lows. I have a post that I suggested anyone try before you pitch the speakers and it is cheap. You may laugh but give them a try at $10.00 per plate. I had put these for looks only to replace the plastic ones we all have, to my surprise my system lost brightness, grain, and clarity with better dynamics and bottom end, and the noise floor was easy to hear improved it was. I took them off last week after a year or so and put back the plastic/nylon ones, took less than 30 seconds to say my God is that bad, I was used to that crap before.

https://www.amazon.com/Monarch-Copper-Hammered-Duplex-Switch/dp/B07848TYC3/ref=pd_bxgy_vft_none_img_sccl_1/139-9497462-0203460?pd_rd_w=9sm5o&content-id=amzn1.sym.7f0cf323-50c6-49e3-b3f9-63546bb79c92&pf_rd_p=7f0cf323-50c6-49e3-b3f9-63546bb79c92&pf_rd_r=7K7YXW4K6MZKR2NSK9YC&pd_rd_wg=Z2Qhm&pd_rd_r=d01ba719-a719-4f70-9f60-99006bd10e76&pd_rd_i=B07848TYC3&psc=1

« Last Edit: 7 Feb 2023, 03:10 pm by Mr. Big »

James Edward

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #24 on: 15 Feb 2023, 02:24 pm »
I own the Sapphires M3s and no fiatque unless I play the newer sound of over-processed, tip-up forward highs and booming lows. I have a post that I suggested anyone try before you pitch the speakers and it is cheap. You may laugh but give them a try at $10.00 per plate. I had put these for looks only to replace the plastic ones we all have, to my surprise my system lost brightness, grain, and clarity with better dynamics and bottom end, and the noise floor was easy to hear improved it was. I took them off last week after a year or so and put back the plastic/nylon ones, took less than 30 seconds to say my God is that bad, I was used to that crap before.

https://www.amazon.com/Monarch-Copper-Hammered-Duplex-Switch/dp/B07848TYC3/ref=pd_bxgy_vft_none_img_sccl_1/139-9497462-0203460?pd_rd_w=9sm5o&content-id=amzn1.sym.7f0cf323-50c6-49e3-b3f9-63546bb79c92&pf_rd_p=7f0cf323-50c6-49e3-b3f9-63546bb79c92&pf_rd_r=7K7YXW4K6MZKR2NSK9YC&pd_rd_wg=Z2Qhm&pd_rd_r=d01ba719-a719-4f70-9f60-99006bd10e76&pd_rd_i=B07848TYC3&psc=1
I bought one of the copper wallplates, as my outlet is directly behind my rack, and figured it was worth trying. I’d be lying if I said it certainly makes a positive difference- I’m not sure it does- but it’s worth doing as an inexpensive tweak. I changed over from a steel plate. Sometimes I think I’m hearing what Mr. Big describes, but I don’t do the ‘reference’ track thing, so I’m not 100% sure. What I am certain of is no negative impact on the sound.
What I’m also certain of is Mr. Big’s ability to move markets- I purchased the plate at $10.13 a few weeks ago; it is now 11.95. I guess enough audiophiles bought in that the company figured they’d raise the price…

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #25 on: 15 Feb 2023, 02:42 pm »
I bought one of the copper wallplates, as my outlet is directly behind my rack, and figured it was worth trying. I’d be lying if I said it certainly makes a positive difference- I’m not sure it does- but it’s worth doing as an inexpensive tweak. I changed over from a steel plate. Sometimes I think I’m hearing what Mr. Big describes, but I don’t do the ‘reference’ track thing, so I’m not 100% sure. What I am certain of is no negative impact on the sound.
What I’m also certain of is Mr. Big’s ability to move markets- I purchased the plate at $10.13 a few weeks ago; it is now 11.95. I guess enough audiophiles bought in that the company figured they’d raise the price…

Make sure you put one plate on all the outlets where your gear is plugged into. You will hear an improvement. I had steel and it was not that good, sometimes you listen for a while and then change back. In my system, it is so easy to hear, even my wife from downstairs could hear how the sound degraded as I put it back on the plastic wall plate, and that was from downstairs not even in the room. 

mav52

Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #26 on: 15 Feb 2023, 02:58 pm »
Listening fatigue for me =  music that I just don't enjoy.

Bingenito

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #27 on: 15 Feb 2023, 03:42 pm »
I have 3 dedicated circuits and installed the pure copper wall plates. If there is difference I cannot hear it.

System is super resolving so that is not a factor
MSB Ref DAC> MSB m205 amps > Estelon X Diamond mkII speakers

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #28 on: 16 Feb 2023, 03:00 pm »
I have 3 dedicated circuits and installed the pure copper wall plates. If there is difference I cannot hear it.

System is super resolving so that is not a factor
MSB Ref DAC> MSB m205 amps > Estelon X Diamond mkII speakers

Funny, it is very quickly heard on my system even with a PS Audio P15. But if you don't, you don't. In fact, the plate works so well, at times I feel I really don't need the P15 in my system, though I keep it due to the power regulation and constant steady line voltage at 120V.

Bingenito

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #29 on: 17 Feb 2023, 12:13 am »
I use a Puritan 156 for the DAC, server, giafoil, synergistic switch but power amps to their own circuits direct to wall. Wouldn’t trade that 156 for anything. Doesnt look fancy but it works wonders.

newzooreview

Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #30 on: 11 Mar 2023, 01:23 am »
With the improvement I heard from installing the first copper wall plate, I installed a couple more on other outlets on the same circuit. (I do not have a dedicated line to the junction box for the stereo.) There was a bit more improvement but not as dramatic as with the first one installed on the outlet that the Niagara 3000 is plugged into.

This got me thinking, however. I had a couple Greenwave "dirty electricity filters" that I had tried a few years ago before I got my M3 Sapphires and Holo May DAC. They did not seem to affect my Benchmark and Harbeth system much.

They have a pass-through plug, so I put them on two outlets with power strips plugged into them. The power strips (fairly robust uninterruptible power supplies) run the networking equipment, NAS boxes, TV, and a dozen other things). The potential certainly existed to clean up noise if the Greenwave filters function.

They made a more significant difference than the copper wall plate. Tightness and grunge that I did not know were there are now gone. I'm hearing more deeply into the soundstage and hearing more subtle detail, but it's also more relaxed and delicate.

I am intrigued by the Puritan PSM156 now that I'm hearing the significant benefits of cleaning up the A/C.

I expect that without the Sapphires, the effects might not be as noticeable.

[I should add that I put "dirty electricity filters" in quotes because much of the Greenwave marketing and many reviews on their site are pseudoscientific. The filters themselves appear to remove noise on the A/C circuit, but Greenwave promotes them with evidence-free and otherwise hazy claims about health benefits.]

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #31 on: 11 Mar 2023, 02:54 pm »
With the improvement I heard from installing the first copper wall plate, I installed a couple more on other outlets on the same circuit. (I do not have a dedicated line to the junction box for the stereo.) There was a bit more improvement but not as dramatic as with the first one installed on the outlet that the Niagara 3000 is plugged into.

This got me thinking, however. I had a couple Greenwave "dirty electricity filters" that I had tried a few years ago before I got my M3 Sapphires and Holo May DAC. They did not seem to affect my Benchmark and Harbeth system much.

They have a pass-through plug, so I put them on two outlets with power strips plugged into them. The power strips (fairly robust uninterruptible power supplies) run the networking equipment, NAS boxes, TV, and a dozen other things). The potential certainly existed to clean up noise if the Greenwave filters function.

They made a more significant difference than the copper wall plate. Tightness and grunge that I did not know were there are now gone. I'm hearing more deeply into the soundstage and hearing more subtle detail, but it's also more relaxed and delicate.

I am intrigued by the Puritan PSM156 now that I'm hearing the significant benefits of cleaning up the A/C.

I expect that without the Sapphires, the effects might not be as noticeable.

[I should add that I put "dirty electricity filters" in quotes because much of the Greenwave marketing and many reviews on their site are pseudoscientific. The filters themselves appear to remove noise on the A/C circuit, but Greenwave promotes them with evidence-free and otherwise hazy claims about health benefits.]

PS Audio Regnorator is the most comprehensive way to go. It cleans, it fixes the sine wave and MOST importantly feeds stable voltage to your gear. This is why our systems sound different at times through the day, my voltage can go from 118-124, so what I did one day was I set the output voltage on my regenerator to 118, 119,120, 121, 122, etc.  Impact, the lower voltage 118, 119 the sound thinned out, after 120V the sound got fuller and muddier at 121,122,123, and 124.  At 120 all things were in balance as well as the most dynamic. A filter design or balanced transformer design cannot accomplish this most important task they can lower noise but zip to the sinewave or voltage swings.  So my choice having used others over the years was to give the PS Audio a try because as I looked at it, it did all that the others did but added a few more improvements. But those copper wall plates a god sent for those who choose not to use any conditioning.

newzooreview

Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #32 on: 11 Mar 2023, 04:41 pm »
Thanks.

Given the price difference and measured performance, I'm inclined to try a Puritan 156. I also don't have room for a P20 or P15, but I take your point that stabilizing the voltage is a significant benefit.

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #33 on: 11 Mar 2023, 09:11 pm »
Thanks.

Given the price difference and measured performance, I'm inclined to try a Puritan 156. I also don't have room for a P20 or P15, but I take your point that stabilizing the voltage is a significant benefit.

stabilizing the voltage is a significant benefit....it really is. The P-12 is excellent also, IMO none I've tried works well with high powered, high-current amp. But the P-12 is all you would need for front-end gear of all types.

Tyson

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #34 on: 11 Mar 2023, 10:10 pm »
You can buy a used P10 for a LOT less than a new P15 and they are very very similar.

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #35 on: 12 Mar 2023, 05:29 am »
You can buy a used P10 for a LOT less than a new P15 and they are very very similar.

Very good point.

newzooreview

Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #36 on: 15 Mar 2023, 10:32 pm »
The Puritan 156 arrived a few hours ago and is already doing good things.

It is up and running with both amps, preamp, and DAC plugged into it. It is heavier than I expected, even after seeing the interior photos.

Even in the first few hours, the upper midrange is cleaner and less congested, and I hear better bass timbre and definition. Decay and room echo in recordings are more precise and fade out over a longer time. Everything sounds more natural. There was a veneer of grunge before the 156 that I now understand by its absence. The background is blacker.

Horns and shrill flutes have realistic bite and energy without being grating. Nothing seems slowed or smoothed over.

I expect that there will be some improvements as the bank of capacitors and other parts settle in, as well as the new Puritan Ultimate cord breaking in and everything settling into new receptacles.

Bingenito

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #37 on: 16 Mar 2023, 08:24 am »
Try the power amps direct to the wall.

Mr. Big

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Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #38 on: 16 Mar 2023, 02:00 pm »
The Puritan 156 arrived a few hours ago and is already doing good things.

It is up and running with both amps, preamp, and DAC plugged into it. It is heavier than I expected, even after seeing the interior photos.

Even in the first few hours, the upper midrange is cleaner and less congested, and I hear better bass timbre and definition. Decay and room echo in recordings are more precise and fade out over a longer time. Everything sounds more natural. There was a veneer of grunge before the 156 that I now understand by its absence. The background is blacker.

Horns and shrill flutes have realistic bite and energy without being grating. Nothing seems slowed or smoothed over.

I expect that there will be some improvements as the bank of capacitors and other parts settle in, as well as the new Puritan Ultimate cord breaking in and everything settling into new receptacles.

Nice unit. Looking inside and at its design it is very much like the AQ3000. The 3000 even has more filtering capability. Like all strips and conditioners and PS Audio regenerators a high gauge power cord is a must. 

forky

Re: Listening fatigue
« Reply #39 on: 19 Mar 2023, 03:16 pm »
The Puritan 156 arrived a few hours ago and is already doing good things.

It is up and running with both amps, preamp, and DAC plugged into it. It is heavier than I expected, even after seeing the interior photos.

Even in the first few hours, the upper midrange is cleaner and less congested, and I hear better bass timbre and definition. Decay and room echo in recordings are more precise and fade out over a longer time. Everything sounds more natural. There was a veneer of grunge before the 156 that I now understand by its absence. The background is blacker.

Horns and shrill flutes have realistic bite and energy without being grating. Nothing seems slowed or smoothed over.

I expect that there will be some improvements as the bank of capacitors and other parts settle in, as well as the new Puritan Ultimate cord breaking in and everything settling into new receptacles.

Thanks for writing this up. The 156 has been on my want list for about a year but keeps getting pushed back. What power cord are you using? Did you buy the upgraded Puritan?