Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps

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WGH

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #120 on: 23 Sep 2022, 04:04 pm »
Here is a good one if you like tubes:

  • Zero feedback, class A vacuum tube input stage
  • Class D ICEedge module
  • 1200 watts into the most common loudspeaker loads of 4Ω
  • 2Ω Stable
  • XLR "TRUE" BALANCED INPUT
  • Dual Mono
  • 27 lbs. each

PS Audio M1200
https://www.psaudio.com/products/m1200-amplifier/



My review
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176173.msg1856501#msg1856501

newzooreview

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #121 on: 23 Sep 2022, 06:56 pm »
I suspect that what people like about the Pass is the 2nd order harmonics.

Adding or emphasizing 2nd order harmonics is not a design objective of Pass Labs. Stereophile, for example, measured the XA25 and found that all harmonic distortion was very low (at about -105 dB if you look at the figure 7 referenced for midrange frequencies, for example). https://www.stereophile.com/content/pass-laboratories-xa25-power-amplifier-measurements

"Fortunately, the distortion in the midrange was predominantly the relatively innocuous third harmonic (figure 7), though at low frequencies the second harmonic was equal in level to the third (figure 8). But note the very low level of all distortion harmonics in this graph! Nelson Pass had warned me that measuring the XA25's intermodulation distortion with my usual twin-tone test signal would be problematic: "The bias circuit we are using interprets continuous high-power, high-frequency tones as a fault. If you want to do high-power, high-frequency IM test tones, you will need to do them quickly or you will get falsely high readings."

RonN5

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #122 on: 23 Sep 2022, 07:10 pm »
Yes, I understand that Pass is not intentionally trying to add distortion… but class a by design often has 2nd or 3rd as dominant…if you’ve been following an of Ralph’s posts on Agon, even when distortion is really low, the most dominant influences the overall sound and anything above 3rd results in harshness. 

The Pass distortion components explain why it isn’t exactly tube like… which is usually higher in 2nd and higher in distortion overall.

As for PS Audio… seems to have many positive forum comments. Note that stereophile said mostly 3rd at 8 ohms and 2nd at 4 ohms. Might be an interesting pairing with the Sapphires.

DBT AUDIO

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #123 on: 23 Sep 2022, 07:25 pm »
I have the Holo May KTE and Holo Serene KTE with my Spatial M3 Sapphires. I was using the Benchmark AHB2 amp and upgraded to the Pass Labs XA25…..

…..I wonder how a newer Class D amp might control the two 15" cones on the Sapphires while keeping (or improving on?) the Pass Labs sound.
It sounds like the Serene preamp manages well in your chain so far.  That’s good to hear!  I had the PS Audio S300 amp and M700 mono blocks and sold them.  My X5s were not broken in when I had these amps and the S300 was paired with KEF LS50, my second system.  I wanted to try tubes and didn’t give the M700 a chance with the X5s. 

Thanks

DBT AUDIO

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #124 on: 23 Sep 2022, 07:34 pm »
I do believe one of the Class D amps has the ability to use a tube buffer, which might give the best of both worlds. 

Found it, here's the link to the VTV amp with tube input buffer:

https://vtvamplifier.com/product/vtv-amplifier-stereo-purifi-audio-1et400a-amplifier-with-vtv-vacuum-tube-buffer/
I spoke to Warren, (VTV Amplifiers), yesterday about his offerings.  I didn’t entertain the tube input buffer model you mentioned because I’m leaning towards the Sparkos Labs SS2590 Pro OpAmp model if I decide to try the 30 day trial.  I’ll inquire about it before I make a decision.

morganc

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #125 on: 23 Sep 2022, 10:50 pm »
I spoke to Warren, (VTV Amplifiers), yesterday about his offerings.  I didn’t entertain the tube input buffer model you mentioned because I’m leaning towards the Sparkos Labs SS2590 Pro OpAmp model if I decide to try the 30 day trial.  I’ll inquire about it before I make a decision.

 Nice.  I did as well!  I have a Class D GAN en route and would like to try the VtV Dual Mono Purifi with several opamp options.  They are super easy to roll and Warren will ship several and let me choose the one I like the best.  Love that idea. 

Early B.

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #126 on: 24 Sep 2022, 12:18 am »
Nice.  I did as well!  I have a Class D GAN en route and would like to try the VtV Dual Mono Purifi with several opamp options.  They are super easy to roll and Warren will ship several and let me choose the one I like the best.  Love that idea.

I'd be very interested in hearing your impressions of the differences between the various opamps. Please post.

newzooreview

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #127 on: 24 Sep 2022, 01:41 am »
Nice.  I did as well!  I have a Class D GAN en route

Do you mean the Mini GaN 5 from Class D Audio?

morganc

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #128 on: 24 Sep 2022, 02:07 am »
Yes I picked up one second hand and wanted to hear that all the fuss was about.  I miss the Cherry Megaschino that I had and though I love the Don Sachs, there are times when I want more watts.  So I'll compare a few and find the best fit unless this one is a home run.

DBT AUDIO

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #129 on: 24 Sep 2022, 03:39 am »
Nice.  I did as well!  I have a Class D GAN en route and would like to try the VtV Dual Mono Purifi with several opamp options.  They are super easy to roll and Warren will ship several and let me choose the one I like the best.  Love that idea.
That's my plan!

morganc

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #130 on: 24 Sep 2022, 04:20 am »
I'd be very interested in hearing your impressions of the differences between the various opamps. Please post.

Absolutely. At this moment with my system I'd like something a bit more forewarn but not overly so.  Warren suggested the Sonic Imagery Opamps.  I believe the Weiss maybe too forward though but I'll take my time with this.  With fall and winter approaching I'll have a lot of free time to do so. 

Bingenito

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #131 on: 24 Sep 2022, 11:20 am »
My VTV has the Sparkos SS2590 Pro and Apollon has the Weiss. The Weiss is definitely more transparent and revealing but I would not call it forward.

That said the Sonic Imagery options are right in the middle and I agree a good place to start. As we all know it is about synergy. My DAC is super smooth (no edge or glare) and the X4s are as well. So the Weiss is appreciated to reveal everything.

RonN5

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #132 on: 24 Sep 2022, 12:55 pm »
I have a buddy with Spatials and the VTV/Sparkos....and while he says it sounds really good with a powerful low end and good balance top to bottom, it is somewhat 2 dimensional and therefore not in the same league as his Don Sachs amp when it comes to dimensionality and midrange saturation.

Bingenito

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #133 on: 24 Sep 2022, 01:23 pm »
Cant argue with anyones experience however it could be because the Don Sachs amp is making up for inadequate performance of another area of his system such as Source/ preamp.

In my system the VTV or Apollon have the soundstage floating around my room and more 3D than my dedicated HT room in multichannel audio.

DACs make a massive difference and I think many fault their amp meanwhile the DAC or preamp could be the culprit. 

morganc

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #134 on: 24 Sep 2022, 09:25 pm »
Cant argue with anyones experience however it could be because the Don Sachs amp is making up for inadequate performance of another area of his system such as Source/ preamp.

In my system the VTV or Apollon have the soundstage floating around my room and more 3D than my dedicated HT room in multichannel audio.

DACs make a massive difference and I think many fault their amp meanwhile the DAC or preamp could be the culprit.

I’d love to hear your comparison of the Apollon vs the VTV. 

And what’s your Dac and Pre? 

My Don Sachs pre is super holographic and the centerpiece of my system. 

Perhaps my Audio Mirror IV SE is super laid back. 

In that case, just like you the Weiss Op Amp might actually be a good match.  Regardless I’ll try several and take my time doing it. I find the best changes are only really meaningful after I listen to them for a few weeks to months. 

morganc

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #135 on: 24 Sep 2022, 09:28 pm »
I have a buddy with Spatials and the VTV/Sparkos....and while he says it sounds really good with a powerful low end and good balance top to bottom, it is somewhat 2 dimensional and therefore not in the same league as his Don Sachs amp when it comes to dimensionality and midrange saturation.

I love my  Don Sachs amp.  If it had 300 Watts I’d stop looking.  And now for the first time I’ve ever (slow learner !), I’m not looking for a replacement but an amp to Roll (thanks Tyson for that bank draining idea!).

Tyson

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  • Audio - It's all a big fake.
Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #136 on: 24 Sep 2022, 09:43 pm »
I love my  Don Sachs amp.  If it had 300 Watts I’d stop looking.  And now for the first time I’ve ever (slow learner !), I’m not looking for a replacement but an amp to Roll (thanks Tyson for that bank draining idea!).

Careful, it's a slippery slope!!  These are the different tube amps I have right now:  Type 45 SET (2 watts), 2a3 SET (4 watts), 300b SET (7 watts), 6L6 SEP (10 watts), EL84 Push-Pull (12 watts), 6c33c SET (18 watts) and KT66 Push-Pull (40 watts).  AND I just bought a 211/845 SET amp to replace my SS monoblock amps.  Good lord, now that I write it out, its actually crazy.  I am a crazy person :P

Bingenito

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #137 on: 24 Sep 2022, 10:29 pm »
Quote
I’d love to hear your comparison of the Apollon vs the VTV. 

And what’s your Dac and Pre? 

My VTV purifi sparkos pro stereo is from my 2nd system and I did a shoot out of that vs a Pass amp. In my system I preferred the VTV which gave me the confidence to go all in on the Apollon monos. Never compared the VTV to the Apollon directly because they live in separate systems. Also comparing a stereo purfi to Mono nc1200 modules with a different power supply and different op amp has many variables.

VTV is amazing and half the price of the Apollon monos. The Apollon amps that are a similar price as VTV use the same parts. The PNC series is different and much more expensive.

My DAC/ preamp is an MSB Reference direct to the amps

Early B.

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #138 on: 25 Sep 2022, 01:46 am »
Never compared the VTV to the Apollon directly because they live in separate systems. Also comparing a stereo purfi to Mono nc1200 modules with a different power supply and different op amp has many variables.

Similar. I have the VTV dual mono with Sparkos Pro opamps in my main system and the Mini GaN5 on the secondary system. Never bothered to compare those two. I don't even want to unplug the VTV! Mates well with the Don Sachs pre and Terminator II DAC. The pre and DAC provide the holographic sound, and the VTV reveals all of it. Unless morganc reports back to confirm the Weiss opamp is better, the VTV stays put as is.   

DBT AUDIO

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #139 on: 25 Sep 2022, 01:52 am »
....Unless morganc reports back to confirm the Weiss opamp is better, the VTV stays put as is.   
Maybe Warren would let you try out the Weiss OpAmps with your current mono blocks?