[abomwell]

The only (slightly) good thing about the review is that it  seems like the Carver would be possibly more forgiving of the X5's since a lot of the distortion issues reside in the bass region, the region powered  by the X5's plate amp. And it performed better driving 8 ohms, like the X5, vs. 4 ohms. Additionally its lower measured output than what is advertised is still more than enough to drive the highly sensitive X5's. So, at least to my ears (and those of two others), its issues were not audibly evident, even compared with the LTA ZOTL10 or a First Watt J2. But after reading the review changing to the S30 will give me peace of mind.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Can I ask what you preferred about the sound of the Carver compared to the LTA and the First Watt? The Atma-Sphere is likely going to sound far more like those two amplifiers as it and the LTA don't have traditional output transformers, than the Carver or a Sachs amplifier as the latter both have output transformers.

[abomwell]

The Carver sounded a tad more fleshed out in the upper bass and lower midrange at the time. But, of course, that could easily be the result of compensating errors with my room. How things interact with the room's acoustics is a factor. Looking at the frequency response from the review I do see a very slight rise in that region. I have very capable DSP in my preamp so I can easily replicate that sound in the S30 if I want.

Those amplifier comparisons were made a couple months ago. Since then I've actually found that the sound with the Carver is a bit too flushed out in that region and have PEQed it down a couple dB. I wrote to Clayton about that and he wants the FR to be flat or up 1 or 2dB in that upper bass/lower midrange area. Mine was up 5dB.

I suspect I was a little too hasty in making amplifier decisions before my X5's were fully broken in. It will be interesting to hear the S30 compared with the Carver now that they are broken in with well over 500 hours on them.

[geerock]

@Rusty Jefferson
Not sure if you're looking for an amp or not but I've owned some of the amps mentioned.  I started my X5's on the ZOTL10 and it was nice but a little thin.  Right after I got it an LTA Reference 40 with those lush NOS Mullard el34's came up on the slightly used block and I bought it.  No comparison to the 10.  It was heads above.  Then the mods were put out by LTA to get it improved to a Reference 40 PLUS. So I sent it in.  This brought it up a couple more steps.  Fronted by a Don Sachs all in Pre this is a stunning combo.  Now I also have a second system with modded Klipsch Cornwall iv's and these are driven by a Crimson 275.  Frankly, it's a very nice sounding amp and I'm very surprised at this review of measurements.  I cracked it open and changed to some film caps, and dropped in some NOS tubes in the signal path and it sounds very good.  Those Edcor trannies are what really have me baffled though as the transformers in that amp are supposed to be a proprietary design.  Now we get to Don Sach equipment......when I put his pre in front of any amp I have it makes that amp better and he has both the separates with his DS pre with his Kootenay.  And he has a giant killer if there ever was one with his latest Valhalla integrated.  Reviews are great and everytime someone gets one and talks on the forums it gets glowing reviews.  And for the price it's a top value too.
And he uses those fantastic Polish transformers from Toroidi.  So theres so much more to amps than transformers or transformer less.  Lots of good stuff out there in both configurations.
Best of luck and happy listening.

[Early B.]

I suspect I was a little too hasty in making amplifier decisions before my X5's were fully broken in. It will be interesting to hear the S30 compared with the Carver now that they are broken in with well over 500 hours on them.

Nearly everyone's gear can be lambasted. For instance, many of us love the sound of our overpriced speakers, but 98% of them contain crappy crossover parts.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the Carver to other amps. Most of us have never heard the Carver, so we can only comment on its build quality relative to its asking price. So what? If it sounds good to you, enjoy the music.

[abomwell]

@Rusty Jefferson
Not sure if you're looking for an amp or not but I've owned some of the amps mentioned.  I started my X5's on the ZOTL10 and it was nice but a little thin.  Right after I got it an LTA Reference 40 with those lush NOS Mullard el34's came up on the slightly used block and I bought it.  No comparison to the 10.  It was heads above.  Then the mods were put out by LTA to get it improved to a Reference 40 PLUS. So I sent it in.  This brought it up a couple more steps.  Fronted by a Don Sachs all in Pre this is a stunning combo.  Now I also have a second system with modded Klipsch Cornwall iv's and these are driven by a Crimson 275.  Frankly, it's a very nice sounding amp and I'm very surprised at this review of measurements.  I cracked it open and changed to some film caps, and dropped in some NOS tubes in the signal path and it sounds very good.  Those Edcor trannies are what really have me baffled though as the transformers in that amp are supposed to be a proprietary design.  Now we get to Don Sach equipment......when I put his pre in front of any amp I have it makes that amp better and he has both the separates with his DS pre with his Kootenay.  And he has a giant killer if there ever was one with his latest Valhalla integrated.  Reviews are great and everytime someone gets one and talks on the forums it gets glowing reviews.  And for the price it's a top value too.
And he uses those fantastic Polish transformers from Toroidi.  So theres so much more to amps than transformers or transformer less.  Lots of good stuff out there in both configurations.
Best of luck and happy listening.

Great information, Geerock! Thanks.

 I have already ordered the Atma-Sphere S30 and will sell my Carver. I seriously thought about getting the LTA Reference or Ultralinear but it's at a much higher price point than the S30 and nothing came up on the used market for them.

[2Bad]

Great information, Geerock! Thanks.

 I have already ordered the Atma-Sphere S30 and will sell my Carver. I seriously thought about getting the LTA Reference or Ultralinear but it's at a much higher price point than the S30 and nothing came up on the used market for them.

Good to hear that another S30 will be arriving in the near future. Did they indicate when it should be shipped when you placed your order ???

Also, any upgrades added when ordered ???

[abomwell]

Ralph told Clayton shipment would be 2 weeks. Clayton suggested getting the upgraded V-Caps  (not sure which one he ordered) and I went for it.

[abomwell]

By the way, I did send my Carver back to the factory (Wyred 4 Sound factory) to have them eliminate a buzzing transformer. They said it is a common problem with the 275's. They had to rebuild part of the amp but did fix the problem. They wouldn't cover it under warranty as they said it was a design issue that bothered some people more than others. They gave me a fair price for the repair. The buzz was self noise, not audible through the speakers, and clearly audible from the listening chair. It's not clear to me if the Wyred 4 Sound factory actually builds the amp for Carver or just repairs it.

[geerock]

By the way, I did send my Carver back to the factory (Wyred 4 Sound factory) to have them eliminate a buzzing transformer.  It's not clear to me if the Wyred 4 Sound factory actually builds the amp for Carver or just repairs it.

Wyred 4 Sound builds them. Maybe under a sister company but its them.

[dB Cooper]

Nearly everyone's gear can be lambasted. For instance, many of us love the sound of our overpriced speakers, but 98% of them contain crappy crossover parts.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the Carver to other amps. Most of us have never heard the Carver, so we can only comment on its build quality relative to its asking price. So what? If it sounds good to you, enjoy the music.

While the Carver 275 has many performance faults and seems to be designed and marketed with a "sell the sizzle, not the steak" ethos, it has one totally disqualifying defect and that is that the chassis is not properly grounded, as shown it the ASR review.A tube power amp- with potentially lethal voltages inside- and it isn't grounded properly I can overlook Carver being filmed hand-winding OPTs and then putting el cheapo off-the-shelf parts in the shipping version (and covering them up with big covers so 'buy by eye' customers won't catch on). I can overlook the omission of a 4Ω speaker tap.  I can overlook making the laughable ckaim that his amp "listens to the room." But I can't overlook bad electrical safety. Avoid this amp as if your life depends on it- because it might.

[dB Cooper]

Wyred 4 Sound builds them. Maybe under a sister company but its them.

Great; if something happens and someone gets electrocuted by this thing, they'll be on the hook too, for negligence. What does it say about them that they either a) Didn't notice the fundamental safety flaw; b) Noticed it but said nothing to the client; or c) Said something to the client but agreed to build an unsafe product after the client refused to address the issue? I'm not sure I'd consider any of their products  either if any of these options were acceptable to them.

[dB Cooper]

By the way, I did send my Carver back to the factory (Wyred 4 Sound factory) to have them eliminate a buzzing transformer. They said it is a common problem with the 275's. They had to rebuild part of the amp but did fix the problem. They wouldn't cover it under warranty as they said it was a design issue that bothered some people more than others. They gave me a fair price for the repair. The buzz was self noise, not audible through the speakers, and clearly audible from the listening chair. It's not clear to me if the Wyred 4 Sound factory actually builds the amp for Carver or just repairs it.

And would't cover it under that basis? A design issue that causes a mechanical hum audible from the listening position? A fair price for this work would have been zero. Correcting a design error isn't a 'repair'. Not only is their product a POS, their CS sucks too. Anybody who has this amp should get rid of it ASAP, for a number of reasons, the most significant being safety.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Okay, let's not lose our grip on THIS thread. It's not about Bob.

[Daryl Zero]

A thread within this AC forum:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=179331.20

had a link which led to a thread:

https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/carver-275.8286/page-2#post-184377

which had another link to a discussion from Jim Clark who talked to Bob Carver:

https://carverstereoforum.com/forums/topic/carverfest-amps-and-how-to-measure-them/

I can't speak to the grounding issue but despite the testing numbers, I've seen a lot of positive comments from posters including this one:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/my-review-of-the-bob-carver-crimson-275-tube-amp.3182717/

Additionally, the first link to AC which was a thread about the Carver Crimson 275 on the first page, there were positive comments about the amp. In this Circle, we've seen some discussion about ears vs. testing which I don't know what to make of.

In any event, in the link to Jim Clark's discussion, he was asked about taking the amp back and he said:

Hello pallpoul,

You can return your 275 to have the ground scheme changed if you wish at no cost.

The manufacturer responded as shown.

“We know that the 275 is perfectly safe the way it is currently wired. If you want it grounded another way, send it in and we can rewire it so the earth ground connects directly to the chassis, us paying shipping both ways. We stand behind the product and its quality.”
Thank you.

[dB Cooper]

Seems like maybe the thing to do would be to simply implement the change on all new production units and units returned for service for whatever reason. That way they won't be exposed to possible liabiliy by selling something that does not meet electrical codes and/or conform to widely accepted best practices. In some situations, parts failures can put live rail voltages on a chassis. Dismiss that if you want; I literally wouldn't touch this amp.

[PDR]

I literally wouldn't touch this amp.

Great to clarify......it was unclear in your previous posts.

[Freo-1]

They aren't even good quality Edcors.  Near bottom of the line, frameless OPT, price is around $35 each, probably less in quantity.   If Carver had used middle of the line 50W (Or even the better quality 30W) Edcors then they would measure much better.

I have found Heyboer transformers to be of better quality than Edcors.  The Heyboer folks are excellent to work with,  and stand by their work.

[abomwell]

Well I sold my Carver amp to The Music Room this morning and while I await delivery of the Atma-Sphere S30 I'm using a Crown XLS-1502 amp I had sitting around. It sounds pretty darn good for a $500 amp! As good as the Carver? No, but I can easily live with and enjoy my music while I wait for the S30 using it. It would be a great amp for speaker break-in purposes if one didn't want to waste tube time doing that.

[sunnydaze]

My guess is you are gonna love the AS amp on your Spatials.   

Years ago I had the M60 monoblocks on a pair of Coincident floorstanders and it was fantastic. Only sold them because in the summer they heated my NYC apt to uncomfortable levels.   

A local buddy gets great results with the S30 on his Audiokinesis Jazz Modules.

And Ralph is the absolute best to deal with.  Very generous with his time on the phone when upgrading the caps and p/s in my UV-1 line stage.

Have fun!