[tensor9]

How do these compare?

I'm curious about the distortion levels from such a big midrange driver.

[abomwell]

What don't you like about the Maggie's?

[Daryl Zero]

I started with the LRS and loved it but felt I was missing fullness, dynamics and bass.

I then went to the 7is and again loved it but still felt I was missing fullness, dynamics and bass.

I was planning to go to the Magnepan 3.7i eventually but stumbled on an ad for the X5s in a city I could get to with a chance to listen to them. I had been interested in the X series due to a couple of YouTube channels which raved about them. I also considered getting the Tekton OB speakers but wouldn't have the chance to hear them and reviews of them were really nonexistent.

My issue with going up the chain of Magnepans was that you needed really expensive and high voltage amplifiers to push them and then you would probably need at least two subwoofers too. I had pretty low cost vintage stuff that I thought was doing a decent job with the lower end Maggies but I knew that couldn't continue. Plus the cost of the 3.7is were more than the cost of the X5s (almost new) that I picked up.

Now you still can put a bunch of money into amplification but you don't have to with the X5s. You also have posters here who haven't been able to get the sounds they want out of them which I probably think is due to either equipment or room issues. It may also be that I just can't hear higher frequencies anymore so it isn't an issue for me. On the other hand, I've also heard posters (in other forums) complain about Maggies that same way.

From whence I came, I hear a (for me) full range end-game speaker that has the openness and transparency that I got from the Maggies with enough bass so that I'm not considering any subwoofers and then the icing is the great dynamics.

The best way to know, I think, is to find someone in your area that has them or the X3s (very similar) and see if they will let you hear them (most posters I know love to do this -- for me -- I want to show people what I have and it's frustrating that friends and family don't care but that's the nature of this hobby). Play stuff you know well and see how it sounds recognizing that, again, there is going to be differences with equipment and room.   

[Tyson]

I've been running my X3's with a Type 45 amp (2 watts) and a 2a3 amp (4 watts) the past week or so.  These are GREAT sounding amps that match perfectly well with the X3's.  They are also amps that you would never, ever be able to drive Maggies with.  The ultra high efficiency and ultra low distortion of the X series lets you run amazing amps that simply can't be used with most speakers (and especially not Maggies which are brutal to drive).

Don't get me wrong, I actually quite like Magnepan speakers but you need a monster amp that also can do very well with finesse.  That is not only rare to find and amp with those qualities, it's also usually very expensive.  Pass and Esoteric are 2 that I've heard that have both the necessary grip/grunt as well as a good level of beauty.  But even they don't match the outright magic of a good SET amp driving a very good high efficiency speaker. 

The other genius part of the X3 is the self-powered bass.  This means I can use a small SET amp for the mids/highs and still have crushing bass from the 300 watt digital amp dedicated to the bass woofers.  I'm a bit of a basshead, so that's perfect for me.

[rooze]

I owned 3.6R's for a few years and just bought X3's. I don't think there are many similarities between the two, IMHO. Two very different speakers. You can rock out the X3 at high SPLs without the need for a subwoofer. Maggies need to be treated with more caution, more respect, and you'll never get the same level of dynamic impact with Maggies unless you add subs, which are hard to integrate. I know the 3.7i has a bigger panel and probably builds some on the properties of the 3.6R, but it's still a panel, versus the powered dynamic driver in the X5.
I don't hear quite the same level of openness and transparency with the X3 and I don't find it to be quite as cohesive through the frequency range as the 3.6R. The 3.6s had a beamy mid/high ribbon that needed a good amp and good speaker placement in a good room to sound....excellent, where the X3s seem to be more forgiving of ancillary gear and placement, than the big maggies. But even though it's a boxless design, the X series has some colorations that you might find hard to live with coming from big Maggies. No speaker is perfect at everything.
I think for me it would come down to musical tastes and the room. Given a big room and music catalog that wasn't top-heavy with hard rock/metal, I'd probably go with Maggies. In a smaller room and a requirement for playing some head-banging stuff, it would be the X3/X5 all day long.

[tensor9]

I actually have a 1200W (Hypex NC1200) and and a Rythmik F12 sub, so I have plenty of power and bass to fill out the low end.

I like my Maggies, but after a couple of years, I'm just tired of playing with positioning. Toe in, tweeter in, tweeter out, spacing, are all so important. Getting a cohesive soundstage and even frequency response is actually quite difficult. They often have a pleasing tone to them, but not balanced across the frequency range properly. (Funny enough, I found what helped my bass response the most was speaker spacing, more so that distance from the front wall.) Also, I've noticed that at highish SPL (85+ db, 90 db peak), I start hear noticeable distortion, which I think is just a limitation of the panel.

I'm looking for more accuracy and balance, my dynamics. I listen to mostly acoustic music too.

[geerock]

I owned 1.7i's for a while and really liked them although I did some mods to the crossover network and added some Dueland wiring.  It made a nice improvement but they did need a sub.  I found a Martin Logan sealed sub that integrated very well with it.  Having said that, Maggies are power hungry beasts.  They require large current flow and still you will have trouble listening at high SPL or you will fry the ribbon.  I now own the X5's and drive them with tubes and I have to say I really enjoy them.  Never a problem with the system shutting down and i really like the dipole effect of standard high quality drivers.  I would never go back and your talking to a guy who hasn't oened a box speaker in 30 years.

[Craig B]

My issue with going up the chain of Magnepans was that you needed really expensive and high voltage amplifiers to push them

Magnepan's Wendell Diller would disagree with that. From the company FAQ page: "First, let's address a misconception: The more expensive Maggies require better amplifiers. It is true that most customers use better electronics on our more expensive models. But technically, it is not because the more expensive models are more demanding on the amplifier. The loads and efficiencies are very similar. Typically, the [large speaker] customer has a larger budget for amplifiers"

[mrotino332]

Tyson,

You mention you are running the X3 with a 2 watt/channel SET amp.  Honestly how does it drive the X3s and do you feel they get loud enough?  I have the X5's which I really enjoy and already have two tube/ tube hybrid amps each about 30 watts/channel which very easily drive my speakers.

I've ordered the Decware zen 2.3 watt/channel amp just because of the rave reviews, low price and just want to hear if it sounds as good as the reviews say.  It is backordered and mine is supposed to be completed sometime the middle of next year.  Of course I can return it and just pay shipping if it isn't powerful enough but I believe it will be powerful enough especially since the X series has it's own powered woofers.
 
I listen at most sometimes into the lower 90s decibel range according to my phone app.  Typically mid 80s range.

[Tangram]

My Maggie/Spatial experience is a bit more modest. I started with the LRS and now have the M3 Sapphire (still own the LRS, with Magna Risers).

In short, I wanted to use a 30W Class A amp I own and the Maggies weren't up to the task (I have purchased a big Parasound amp to drive them). The Spatials are 4 ohm but easy to drive. They are also more dynamic than the Maggies and beat the pants off them in the bass department. The Maggies image better, but detail is equal. I like the Maggie soundstage more as well. But the Spatials are more exciting to my ears.

That I still own the LRS's is telling. I think they are incredible. I can only imagine how good the 3.7is are. I would honestly be hesitant to switch them out. Surely once they are dialed in, there should be no need to fiddle with setup anymore?

[Tyson]

Tyson,
You mention you are running the X3 with a 2 watt/channel SET amp.  Honestly how does it drive the X3s and do you feel they get loud enough?  I have the X5's which I really enjoy and already have two tube/ tube hybrid amps each about 30 watts/channel which very easily drive my speakers.

I've ordered the Decware zen 2.3 watt/channel amp just because of the rave reviews, low price and just want to hear if it sounds as good as the reviews say.  It is backordered and mine is supposed to be completed sometime the middle of next year.  Of course I can return it and just pay shipping if it isn't powerful enough but I believe it will be powerful enough especially since the X series has it's own powered woofers.

I listen at most sometimes into the lower 90s decibel range according to my phone app.  Typically mid 80s range.

The X3's mate really well with low power SET amps.  I had Klipsh Forte III's before, a fully passive full range speaker that was even more sensitive than the X3's (99db vs 97db).  But the Type 45 amp with it's 2 watts definitely works better with the X3's than the Forte's.  With these speakers, the amp WILL get up to the volume levels you mentioned but with the Forte's you can really hear it struggling at those volumes.  However, with the X3's it will get that loud but not sound like it's struggling. 

Basically with the X3's, the amp will run out of power but it won't sound super distorted.  My theory is that it's because the bass is off-loaded so the amp only has to drive the mids/highs.  From a power-curve standpoint, this is a MUCH easier load.  In my setup, which is a large common use area including my living room, the dining room and an office area off to one side, I can get mid-80's average and low-90's peak, no real distortion, but the amp just runs out of gas.  The volume knob is at 95%.  If I try to push the volume knob to 100%, then I do actually start to hear some breakup and distortion and fuzziness. 

Switching over to my 4 watt 2a3 amp completely solves this.  The additional 2 watts allows me to hit average of high 80's and peaks of high 90's.  And today I'm switching over to my 300b setup with 8 watts, should be fun!

For the Decware, I've never heard it but it's supposed to be a very robust, well designed amp.  Is it possible to start with 1 amp and then order a 2nd one and convert them to monoblocks if 2.3 watts is not enough?  That seems like the easiest way to get more power with it.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have to agree with Rooze.  I own 1.6's and had a pair if original spatial turbos in for comparison.  They sound completely different.  I had some audio friends over and we all preferred the 1.6's with my dual ML subs.  The maggies have a livelier sound and are more musical.  The Spatials sounded great with some music and flat with others and had a midrange suckout.  I am sure the newer models sound much better.  I also found the Spatials to be just as picky about placement as the Maggies.

I think that if you love the Maggie sound then the is the possibility that you may be disappointed.

The distortion you hear at high levels may be due to your amp.  If it cannot handle a 2ohm load then it may develop some distortion at loud volumes.  Maggie Tweeters tend to dip below 4 ohms.  I get no such breakup at 85+ db with my Pass X250 amp.

[mrotino332]

Thanks Tyson for the detailed response.  Yes you can get a second one to double the power.  Only issue is the wait time is like 10 months or so but maybe in the future that will subside.  Anyway I purchased it more of an experiment to see how it would sound and yes if I really enjoy the amp but feel I need more power then I could always buy another to double the power.  Thanks for your help.

[Tyson]

Thanks Tyson for the detailed response.  Yes you can get a second one to double the power.  Only issue is the wait time is like 10 months or so but maybe in the future that will subside.  Anyway I purchased it more of an experiment to see how it would sound and yes if I really enjoy the amp but feel I need more power then I could always buy another to double the power.  Thanks for your help.

Based on the volumes you mentioned, I think you'll be perfectly fine with a single amp.  Going above that volume level might be problematic though. 

[Tyson]

I have to agree with Rooze.  I own 1.6's and had a pair if original spatial turbos in for comparison.  They sound completely different.  I had some audio friends over and we all preferred the 1.6's with my dual ML subs.  The maggies have a livelier sound and are more musical.  The Spatials sounded great with some music and flat with others and had a midrange suckout.  I am sure the newer models sound much better.  I also found the Spatials to be just as picky about placement as the Maggies.

I think that if you love the Maggie sound then the is the possibility that you may be disappointed.

The distortion you hear at high levels may be due to your amp.  If it cannot handle a 2ohm load then it may develop some distortion at loud volumes.  Maggie Tweeters tend to dip below 4 ohms.  I get no such breakup at 85+ db with my Pass X250 amp.

I agree with you 100%.  With the right amp the Maggies are incredible.  Something like a Pass X250 is perfect for them.

Re: the Spatial Turbos vs the new X Series.   I've heard both and frankly I would never own the Turbo's in a million years.  They were a decent but not amazing speaker (as you noted).  But the X series is a whole other beast.  These are speakers that finally play in the big-boy leagues.  I also agree with that the X series driven by something like a big Pass amp will not sound as good in the mids as the Maggies will.  But, that's not the reason to get the X3's.  No, the reason to get the X series is because of TUBES.   I'd put the X3/300b combo agains the Maggie/Pass250 combo and for midrange purity and overall musicality they will be quite comparable.  So, mids are a draw in this case, but other areas like dynamics (macro and micro) and bass, the X series is the clear winner. 

Are the X series the best speakers in the world.  Nope.  The speakers in my downstairs system (the Super 7s from GR Research) have very similar advantages as the X series, PLUS planar magnetic midrange drivers and planar magnetic tweeters.  I'd say (for my tastes), those are much closer to a perfect speaker.  Although even the Super 7's are not as good as the planar magnetic line array prototypes I heard at Danny's a couple of years ago. 

Anyway, I guess my main point here is don't judge the X series based on prior Spatial speakers, as the new models are a substantial leap in quality.  And also try not to fully judge them until you've heard them with some beautiful low powered tube amps.  So far I've run my Type 45 amp (2 watts), the 2a3 (4 watts) and my 300b (8 watts) all are spectacular.  Next up is my 6C33C SET amp (18 watts), probably tomorrow.  Then on to my custom built push-pull EL84 amp (12 watts) and finally my custom built KT66/EL34 amp (40 watts).  There's very few speakers in the world that can shine with amps like this, and the X3 is definitely one of them. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Tyson, I have no doubt that the newer spatials sound great.  I would love to hear a pair.  I am actually going to down size my system in the next year or two.  I am getting too old to deal with a 100lb amp and my 50lb BAT preamp.  The wife is also tired of having door panels as speakers for the last 25 years.  It's too bad the Spatials have a similar footprint as I would love to have a speaker that I can run a 10-30 watt tube amp.

[Tyson]

Tyson, I have no doubt that the newer spatials sound great.  I would love to hear a pair.  I am actually going to down size my system in the next year or two.  I am getting too old to deal with a 100lb amp and my 50lb BAT preamp.  The wife is also tired of having door panels as speakers for the last 25 years.  It's too bad the Spatials have a similar footprint as I would love to have a speaker that I can run a 10-30 watt tube amp.

The X3’s are interesting.  I have them in a less than perfect room with less than perfect placement.  I’ve been experimenting with close to the wall placement and having them on sliders so I can pull them out when I want to do critical listening. 

With close wall listening my observation is that soundstage takes a big hit as does the overall frequency response.  But here’s the weird part.  Even kind of shoved up against the wall, I still find them quite engaging and enjoyable to listen to.  But why?  I’ve had other speakers in this space and they were just godawful in the same location. 

My theory is this - that it’s a combo of 2 factors.   First is they are highly directional and second they are highly efficient.  The directionality means they are less bothered by close wall placement, and the high efficiency means they are lively and engaging no matter where you place them.  Oh, and the bass is adjustable, that helps a lot, too.  So I guess that’s actually 3 factors, haha.

[Desertpilot]

The X3’s are interesting.  I have them in a less than perfect room with less than perfect placement.  I’ve been experimenting with close to the wall placement and having them on sliders so I can pull them out when I want to do critical listening. 

I have done the same thing (X3s on sliders).  Close to front wall sounds good but loss of depth.  Width is still quite good.  I tried extreme toe-in for benefit of other movie watchers.  You know what?  They don't care.  So I moved them back out about 5 feet from the front wall.  I am probably close to removing the sliders and putting on the carpet spikes.  To hell with other listeners.

Marcus

[abomwell]

That's too funny

[tensor9]

I'm quite surprised by these responses?

Anyone else have any direct experience with the 3.7i vs the x series?