Tube amp audition

Wayne1 · « **on:** 12 Aug 2003, 01:11 am »

The new Radii tube amps are fairly well broken in and ready to confront the rest of the DAM world

I am offering an open invitation to all AC folks who might happen to be in the area.

Please gather at BOLDER Cable world headquarters

Saturday August 16th, 2003 1:00 pm for some listening and general BS.

Jason and Tyson, please leave the knives at home. I really don't want to have to call in the paramedics when you hurt yourselves trying to show off

Tyson · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Aug 2003, 01:29 am »

I don't have time on saturday, but I do on sunday. . .

Pez · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Aug 2003, 02:17 am »

I don't have time saturday either, but since it sounds like Tyson definately won't be able to make it I'll be there.

mgalusha · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Aug 2003, 01:04 pm »

Once again the timing sucks for me. We are going to Estes Park for the weekend although we will be back Sunday afternoon.

If you end up doing it Sunday, I should be able to make it over in the afternoon.

Mike

brad b · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Aug 2003, 05:13 pm »

Wayne: unfortunately we will be having one last family outing before sending the oldest to college. Besides, those things need to be used as space heaters, and I am looking forward to drying my socks in the winter while sipping on something hot, listening to some good tunes.

You guys have fun, and I'll catch up later
Brad

Wayne1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Aug 2003, 05:18 pm »

It looks like no one is interested in listening to tubes

Sundays I try to spend just with my family.

Brad,

While there is a bit of heat given off, it is much less than you might think.

I am sending a pair of the amps off to Scott of TNT-Audio for a review. They won't be back here for about a month.

I guess we will try to hook up then.

BradJudy · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Aug 2003, 05:27 pm »

I'll be in Boston on business, so I can't make it. Otherwise I would come and bring my new Aurum Cantus L2SEs - I'd be curious to hear them on tubes.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Aug 2003, 01:21 am »

After all of Tyson's protests, it turns out he is going to make it after all.

Jason (Pez) is going to bring over his stereo Radii, so we might do a little comparison.

The get together will be later in the afternoon.

A new ice rink is opening up in my neighborhood tomorrow. My son is now going to be playing ice hockey. This is in addition to rec. inline hockey and High School inline hockey.

I think I might have to raise my prices just to afford the gear, let alone the rink fees

Wayne1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Aug 2003, 12:29 am »

Jason and Tyson just left after a fun listening session.

The first part was taken up by my using Jason's ears to help tune the 626Rs to the Radii tube amp.

He insisted that the 626s need to be aimed down a bit. I ended up putting a pair of TipToes spikes under the back of the cabinets and a pair of Herbie's Combat Boots under the front between the cabinets and the stands. He was also complaing about the stands being not perfectly level.

Once all that was completed to his satisfaction, I balanced the sub to the 626s.

Tyson brought over his Van Alstine Fet Valve amp. Jerry (Turk) stopped over earlier in the day and dropped off a pair of JJ tubes for Tyson to try out in the Van Alstine. I spent about 10 minutes with my power screwdriver removing all the screws from his amp cover so he could change out the tubes.

When all of this was done we plugged the amps in to warm up and started to listen to the mono-block Radii's. We chose the SACD of KODO Mondo Head for our reference disc.

The mono-blocks sounded VERY good after the tuning of the speakers. Both Jason and Tyson asked if the sub was on

.

We then pulled the mono-blocks out and installed Jason's stereo Radii. There was quite a difference. THe low end was very boomy and sort of dull. The highs were slightly more "analytical" than the mono-blocks.

The separate power supplies for each channel showed their advantage quite easily.

We then installed the Van Alstine. The bass was VERY tight. It was a little over bearing in the mids and highs. Tyson retuned the 626Rs and it sounded quite a bit more natural. Overall the sound was "drier" than the two tube amps. After listening to a few tracks we put the mono-blocks back in and changed the settings back on the VMPS.

To my ears, the Radii mono-blocks were more involving to listen to. There was more silence between notes on the high end. The bass was not as tight in absolute terms as the Van Alstine, but it was more "natural". The Van Alstine sounded like a studio monitor where you could pick apart each piece of the music very clinically. The Radii mono-blocks sounded more like you were listening to musicians.

I was very pleased with the comparisons. The mono-blocks are not inexpensive at $1000.00 a channel but I do feel that they can give even more expensive amps a challenge. I am going to miss them while they are away at Scott F's for review.

When they come back, I will have to bring them over to Tyson's or Turk's to see how they do driving the RM-40s.

Pez · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Aug 2003, 02:21 am »

Keeping in mind that the amps involved today are all way better than 95% of the amps within a thousand dollars. I feel first off that the new Radii tube amps are absolutely fabulous. I very much enjoyed listening to them today. They were more refined, laid back than my Radii, while maintaining dyanamics of all sorts. I definately feel that Wayne's system has finally reached a point of absolute greatness. I would love to hear the same equipment in a dedicated music system in a well proportioned room with nothing to interfere with the soundstage and imaging.

I do feel that my Radii maintained soundstage depth better than the new Radii which tended to throw the image higher as opposed to deeper than my Radii. That being the only sacrifice I strongly believe that the system can made to have proper depth under the right circumstances.

The V.A. is very smooth for a solid state amp and was definately not out of place amgonst the tube amps. I thought the overall signature was very comparable to the sonics of tube gear I have previously heard, but with the benifits of strong and well controled bass. Where it tended to fall short incomparison with the two Radii's was treble clarity which lead to a bit of blurring in the overall soundstage. This caused a bit of bleed-over in instrumentation as well as lack of definition with string instruments. Albeit the bass was amazing and controled, as Wayne pointed out it sounded like the new Radii had more/deeper bass. This was only the case due to the less dampened nature of the newer Radii's bass. It simply sounded like it had better bass due to it's slight lack of definition (my Radii was far less defined in comparison to the new Radii so it is no slump when it comes to bass control.)

Any way that is my observations of todays listening. Great amps Wayne!

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Aug 2003, 03:25 am »

I'll keep this short and sweet, the Radii monoblocks kicked the asses of the other 2 amps on hand. Made me realize yet again how much more musically satisfying a really good tube amp is. For the 626R's, no question the tubed mono's were the best match. For a big speaker like the 40's, I think I still need the power and control that the AVA gives, but hopefully at some point Wayne can bring these new bad boys over to my place and see how well 75 watt tubed monoblocks could drive the 40's.

Wayne,
I switched tubes in the AVA (re-tried all the 12at7's I have on hand), and ended up with the Brimars in there now. Much sweeter and fuller sound than the JJ tubes, but a loss of some bass tightness. Thanks to this afternoon's listening session, I got off my butt and experimented with the amp's tubes and have a better sound. I still don't think it would match the Radii monoblocks, cause the AVA is not a tube amp and will never have that "magic" that very good tubed equipment does.

One more comment on the Radii mono's (can't radii come up with an actual name for their amps?) is that while it is a tubed amp through and through, it has very good performance in areas that are traditionaly the strong point of SS amps, namely dynamics and bass. On the 626R's, the dynamics were fully up to the level of the AVA, and the bass, if a little less controlled, was still very tight and very involving - no bloated bass here! So, a tubed amp that does the tube "magic", but without the weaknesses of a lot of tubed gear, a real winner, IMO.

I did get a chance to hear a Bel Canto SET amp last week, and IMO the BC cannot hold a candle to the Radii. Even driving speakers that are quite efficient, and a very benign load (Selah Audio Excelarrays), the BC sounded like crap, all the traditional weaknesses of tubes in spades. Mushy and overblown at the same time. The Radii, on the other hand, very balanced, with that great tube "bloom", but not overbearing in the least, with tight, punchy bass.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Aug 2003, 02:11 pm »

Thanks for the comments, guys.
I hope Scott F feels the same way

Tyson, I hope you are feeling better, I know seeing Jason would give anyone a headache

You did leave your coffee mug here. You can pick it up whenever you come back for the Tenderfeet.

BTW, the model number for the Radii amps is GS-75PP.

Hopefully we will not be hearing much from Pez for some time. I lent him my DVD box set of the first 48 episodes of Ruronuni Kenshin.

He is probably immersed in Meiji era Japan, whilst running around his house wielding his Katana and scaring the bejeeus out of his cat.

audiojerry · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Aug 2003, 02:02 pm »

You guys have piqued my curiosity over the Radii and 626r. If you look beyond a certain degree of outrageous behavior of one of the regular DAM mafioso (I don't want to pick on anyone by name)

, your reviews and observations have a high degree of credibility.

I am familiar with the sound of the Van Alstine from listening to Jackman's amp and preamp. I think they are excellent pieces for the money. It's possible some of the shortcomings you pointed out might be due to the preamp you were using (what was it?). Paired with my German Audio Valve pre, the Van Alstine sounded very good, but it sounded better when combined with VA's own preamp. VA components have a real synergy when used together.

$2k for a pair of mono's that sound as good as you describe them sounds like a real value. How can I audition a pair? Wayne, what is your relationship with Radii?

Thanks for the review.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Aug 2003, 02:58 pm »

Hello Jerry,

The preamp used was a Sony TA-P900ES. All interconnect cables were BOLDER Nitros. Speaker cable was BOLDER Nitro, all power cables the same

. The source was a highly modified Sony NS-500V that in one to one comparison was very close to the sound of the XA-777ES on SACD.

There are currenly only three of these amps on the planet. I just shipped a pair of these to Scott F for a review for TNT-Audio.com.

My relationship with Radii is that of importer/distributer/retailer.

I have been working with Mr. Santa Man of Radii for some time now. I think that this amp design is one that might bring the Radii gear to more people's notice.

This amp is a custom design. All of the Radii amps are handbuilt. Lead time for orders are 6-8 weeks. Orders need to be paid in advance. When the amps are finished, they are shipped FedEx to your door. Cost of shipping is included in the price of the amp. JJ output tubes and Herbies tube dampers are extra.

As to how to get a pair of these amps, it is easy, just send money

These amps WILL NOT be touring the country. I will bring them around to other DAM members systems to see how they do with other gear. Scott F requested a review product from me at MAF. I had these built so he could see and hear what Radii can do. I WILL be bringing them to VSAC so folks can stop by the BOLDER Cable suite and listen to them.

audiojerry · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 12:54 am »

quote]These amps WILL NOT be touring the country.[/quote]
That's good, I wouldn't want it to get too soiled before you include in the Mensa Audition Pack you'll be sending me.

Thanks for the info.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 06:14 am »

Wayne, You mentioned Herbies tube dampers in your last post. Do you find that they are a good product that makes a difference in tube equipement ? Thanks !

Wayne1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 01:29 pm »

Yes I do! Here is $150.00 worth of Herbie's Tube Dampers on a pair of Radii mono-blocks. I also have another Radii GS-75PP with the same amount of dampers.

Most of the members of the DAM that own tube gear use these dampers.

Herbie's Tube dampers were a product I ordered in after Tyson tried them on a tube pre-amp he owned for a bit. I do find that they greatly reduce microphonics and generally "tighten" up the sound. Rather than having all that glass vibrating away with the sound waves in your room, the tube dampers reduce this.

I became a dealer for Herbie's products shortly after trying them out.

I use the Tenderfeet and Combat Boots for isolation. I have used the TT mat and CD mat. All of which work just as he says they will.