[Phil A]

"Hi James

Logic tells me the all in one BCD-1 should better the combo; I’m a great believer in keeping things simple. On the other hand, having the DAC integrated into the preamp eliminates other problems by incorporating the shortest route of the analogue signal from the DAC to the pre.
But, until there are enough BCD-1s out in the field, I guess we’ll just have to wait. "

[/quote]

The think I weigh about a DAC is some of the higher quality music downloads available.  I believe Music Giants has indicated they will offer them.  Linn Records I believe has 88.2 PCM of their hi-rez catalog for download and AIX Records (which is a DVD-A label) has indicated they will have hi-rez downloads available.  At some point I'll join the 21st century with high speed internet.  Also, Warner, a while back indicated they would consider replacing the CD with a DVD album (with extras) besides the vinyl and DVD-As at becausesoundmatter.com.  So for me it becomes a decision (besides budget) of how much I think this might come into play vs. the software I have now and will buy in the future.  A player that did SACD too would have been nice for the fact that I'd be able to utilize more of the software I have.  Again, that becomes a decision based upon what I might buy down the road.

James, was there ever a thought for an output to slave the clock of the BCD-1 to input to a DAC as is done in many pro applications?

[rob80b]

The think I weigh about a DAC is some of the higher quality music downloads available.  I believe Music Giants has indicated they will offer them.  Linn Records I believe has 88.2 PCM of their hi-rez catalog for download and AIX Records (which is a DVD-A label) has indicated they will have hi-rez downloads available.  At some point I'll join the 21st century with high speed internet.  Also, Warner, a while back indicated they would consider replacing the CD with a DVD album (with extras) besides the vinyl and DVD-As at becausesoundmatter.com.  So for me it becomes a decision (besides budget) of how much I think this might come into play vs. the software I have now and will buy in the future.  A player that did SACD too would have been nice for the fact that I'd be able to utilize more of the software I have.  Again, that becomes a decision based upon what I might buy down the road.

James, was there ever a thought for an output to slave the clock of the BCD-1 to input to a DAC as is done in many pro applications?

With this whole download thing, I guess it comes down to those of us how like to curl up with a good book, going through the linear notes on my albums and cds is part is part of the enjoyment process.
It’s sort of like going through photo albums instead of flipping through images on a digital screen.
Down loading music takes away the personal enjoyment of compiling a physical music library, looking at ones books and music collection is one of the few timelines we can look back over the years, in many ways it defines who we are as an individual.
I’m not a nostalgic person; it’s just that I’d rather keep myself out of the machine as much as possible.
Up until a few years ago I was an Apple computer specialist but made 180 degree turn and opened up a specialty cheese shop, I guess in many ways I’ve gone retro. 

[rob80b]

Hi James,

I guess if we are keeping this thread alive, I had a chance to scrutinize a Benchmark DAC-1 with my setup.
Details can be found here http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6186

Now the question is, have you had a chance to compare the Benchmark to Bryton’s DAC or BCD-1, and if so any comparative thoughts.
When I say there was absolutely no difference between the DAC-1 with the TEAC VRDS-20 as a transport and the TEAC as a stand-alone player, I really mean nada.

Robert

[Phil A]

The think I weigh about a DAC is some of the higher quality music downloads available.  I believe Music Giants has indicated they will offer them.  Linn Records I believe has 88.2 PCM of their hi-rez catalog for download and AIX Records (which is a DVD-A label) has indicated they will have hi-rez downloads available.  At some point I'll join the 21st century with high speed internet.  Also, Warner, a while back indicated they would consider replacing the CD with a DVD album (with extras) besides the vinyl and DVD-As at becausesoundmatter.com.  So for me it becomes a decision (besides budget) of how much I think this might come into play vs. the software I have now and will buy in the future.  A player that did SACD too would have been nice for the fact that I'd be able to utilize more of the software I have.  Again, that becomes a decision based upon what I might buy down the road.

James, was there ever a thought for an output to slave the clock of the BCD-1 to input to a DAC as is done in many pro applications?

With this whole download thing, I guess it comes down to those of us how like to curl up with a good book, going through the linear notes on my albums and cds is part is part of the enjoyment process.
It’s sort of like going through photo albums instead of flipping through images on a digital screen.
Down loading music takes away the personal enjoyment of compiling a physical music library, looking at ones books and music collection is one of the few timelines we can look back over the years, in many ways it defines who we are as an individual.
I’m not a nostalgic person; it’s just that I’d rather keep myself out of the machine as much as possible.
Up until a few years ago I was an Apple computer specialist but made 180 degree turn and opened up a specialty cheese shop, I guess in many ways I’ve gone retro. 

I don't read books (have the attention span of a retarded gnat:)) but I've not ever downloaded a thing and I'm not sure I will.  I do like the liner notes too.  If I did do stuff at some point in the future, it would likely be very limited.  So at the moment, I'm leaning towards a CD player.  I do have a DAC that is very good (will only do 48k) but is old and would likely be more than OK it I wanted to do a music/media server at some point.  It possessed many of the good qualities of the Bryston CD player.  It tended to be much more sloppy in the bass though on well-recorded stuff.

[Lars]

Hi James

Is there a release Date for the BCD-1 in germany ? Whats the price of the BCD-1 in europe?

Lars

[James Tanner]

Hi James

Is there a release Date for the BCD-1 in germany ? Whats the price of the BCD-1 in europe?

Lars

Hi Lars,

Our distributor in Germany (Sun Audio) has some on order but there are none in the country as yet. We are still heavily backordered and they ordered units quite late.

james

[niels]

"Hi James

Logic tells me the all in one BCD-1 should better the combo; I’m a great believer in keeping things simple. On the other hand, having the DAC integrated into the preamp eliminates other problems by incorporating the shortest route of the analogue signal from the DAC to the pre.
But, until there are enough BCD-1s out in the field, I guess we’ll just have to wait. "

The think I weigh about a DAC is some of the higher quality music downloads available.  I believe Music Giants has indicated they will offer them.  Linn Records I believe has 88.2 PCM of their hi-rez catalog for download and AIX Records (which is a DVD-A label) has indicated they will have hi-rez downloads available.  At some point I'll join the 21st century with high speed internet.  Also, Warner, a while back indicated they would consider replacing the CD with a DVD album (with extras) besides the vinyl and DVD-As at becausesoundmatter.com.  So for me it becomes a decision (besides budget) of how much I think this might come into play vs. the software I have now and will buy in the future.  A player that did SACD too would have been nice for the fact that I'd be able to utilize more of the software I have.  Again, that becomes a decision based upon what I might buy down the road.

James, was there ever a thought for an output to slave the clock of the BCD-1 to input to a DAC as is done in many pro applications?
[/quote]

Cant find the source of this quote, but anyway.....is the dac in B-100 the same as in the Bryston cd player ?
I have the Bryston B100 DA, use a Squeezeboks wirelessly to play my 260 Lossless ripped cd´s, and listen to radio a lot. Actually the radio is on most of the day.
I gave up on sacd long ago, its simply not worth it for me. I also gave up on ordinary cd playback, now I can scroll through my entire collection without getting up from the chair.
And yes, the dac in B100 is awesome, really love the sound. I have noticed though, if I use my Philips dvd 963SA as a transport, then the Bryston dac studders (?) when the 963SA is set to 192 Khz upsampling. I thought digital out was digital out no matter what....

[Phil A]

Right now I'm leaning towards a stand alone CD player.  I had new carpet put in the main room and bedroom so probably by the end of the week I'll have stuff moved back and set-up and next week I'll narrow down what I want to do.  I'm not sure how much I'd download even with high speed internet.  That's the next wave of hacker heaven probably anyway.  The DAC I have can do 48k or 44.1k so I can always do the media server thing too.  I still buy SACDs but gave up on it as a potential mainstream format a little less than 2 yrs. ago and sold by Modwright XA-777ES to go with a Marantz DV9600 Universal.  Except mainly for classical new SACD releases have slowed to a crawl.

[mr-terence]

hi guys, just spent a fascinating 30 minutes reading all your comments. i have a BCD-1 on order here in england UK, although it hasn't arrived yet and am not sure when it will - dealer estimate is (hopefully) about a week's time.

my appetite is now even more sharply whetted - what i need is a dedicated CD player which can give much better CD playback than my current universal player (very good on DVD-A and SACD). having read all that you have said i am crossing my fingers that i get it!

crossing my fingers too that the bryston makes it across the ocean shortly! thanks again to you all - i'll keep tuned to the thread in case there are more comments.

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

First review on the BCD-1 CD Player should be posted on Soundstage on September 1st 07.

james

[Phil A]

My local dealer knows me too well.  As a follow-up to the initial impression at the beginning of July I posted early in the thread, I had sent an E-Mail to a friend indicating after new carpeting and painting a room next to the main one, I'm putting my system back together and going to be ready to look at a CD player seriously next week or the week thereafter at the latest.  About an hr. or so after I sent that E-Mail, my local dealer called me late yesterday afternoon to tell me he ordered an extra BCD-1 CD player and just got it in knowing I might want one and the order backlog.  I went in to the store just before lunch earlier and listened some more vs. various things (I even brought my own home made interconnects and power cords in so I could hear the same thing on two different players).  I just came home with the player a little bit ago.

[James Tanner]

My local dealer knows me too well.  As a follow-up to the initial impression at the beginning of July I posted early in the thread, I had sent an E-Mail to a friend indicating after new carpeting and painting a room next to the main one, I'm putting my system back together and going to be ready to look at a CD player seriously next week or the week thereafter at the latest.  About an hr. or so after I sent that E-Mail, my local dealer called me late yesterday afternoon to tell me he ordered an extra BCD-1 CD player and just got it in knowing I might want one and the order backlog.  I went in to the store just before lunch earlier and listened some more vs. various things (I even brought my own home made interconnects and power cords in so I could hear the same thing on two different players).  I just came home with the player a little bit ago.

Hi Phil,

Great to hear - I know your really going to enjoy it. What else did you compare it to at the store?

I just got home and I am proof reading the review on the BCD-1 Player that will appear in the internet magazine "Soundstage" on September 1st.  It's a dandy.

james

[Phil A]

My local dealer knows me too well.  As a follow-up to the initial impression at the beginning of July I posted early in the thread, I had sent an E-Mail to a friend indicating after new carpeting and painting a room next to the main one, I'm putting my system back together and going to be ready to look at a CD player seriously next week or the week thereafter at the latest.  About an hr. or so after I sent that E-Mail, my local dealer called me late yesterday afternoon to tell me he ordered an extra BCD-1 CD player and just got it in knowing I might want one and the order backlog.  I went in to the store just before lunch earlier and listened some more vs. various things (I even brought my own home made interconnects and power cords in so I could hear the same thing on two different players).  I just came home with the player a little bit ago.

Hi Phil,

Great to hear - I know your really going to enjoy it. What else did you compare it to at the store?

I just got home and I am proof reading the review on the BCD-1 Player that will appear in the internet magazine "Soundstage" on September 1st.  It's a dandy.

james

James, when I initially listened to the player in July (and took it home subsequently as the store was closed about 5 days until after our July 4 Holiday) it was on an all Ayre system (preamp and $15-16k monoblocks) with $12k Piega speakers the dealer just got.  The stuff was plugged into the Torus conditioner he had.  It took me about one song to eliminate the $3k Ayre CD player.  It (the Ayre) was forgiving and relaxing to listen to but I was very familiar with the source mat'l being listened to and I found it a bit recessed with timing that did not sound natural in the flow of the music and a bit washed out in terms of dynamics (and that was with Ayre electronics).  The dealer hid the CD players from view and put on the same track no. of another CD and merely switched balanced cables between the Ayre and the Bryston players.  I was there with a friend as well.  Blind test or not I was easily able to distinguish between the two.  He then took the Rega Saturn (the same price as the Bryston) and did the same thing.  I did not know it at the time but the Rega has no balance output and his used another set of interconnects (all the listening was done with stuff hidden from my view).  I had a tougher time distinguishing at that point and learned about the hook-up later.  When I came back this time, I brought my own home made interconnects (single ended as that's what I'll be using with the SP1.7) and power cords to take that variable out.  I had him hook up a BP26 and a 4BSST and he had the smaller bros. (bookshelves) to the above Piega speakers.  It was a fairly quick decision.  The Rega, while more like the sonic character of the BCD-1 vs. the Ayre was a bit more recessed and polite and did not have the same crispness or clarity as the Bryston.  I could tell this after listening to a CD and going back and forth a couple of times.  I listened to a few more cuts from different CDs to confirm my observations.  The (non-video) Ayre $6k universal player was next to it.  It is exquisitely built and I'd love a single player to play 2-channel CDs, SACDs and DVD-As.  I decided to try the comparison and thought if I really liked it, I'd just treat myself and bite the bullet (I went to a friend's funeral a couple of weeks back - he was 45 and based on my mood I was going to buy what did CD best, regardless of the price differece and if it did CD better and played hi-rez too that would be a plus - my other thought was in a bit more than a yr. my Marantz DV9600 will be out-of-warranty and I might consider minor mods to it).  It (the Ayre universal) was definitely smoother than the stand-alone Ayre CD player I listened to but it still had those qualities that did not sound right to my tastes vs. what the Bryston did.  It was a beautiful looking player though.

I should add when I took it home back in July I initially gave it to a friend who has an XA-9000ES and he thought the Bryston was definitely better on CD and almost as good playing the CD layer of a hybrid vs. the SACD layer on the XA-9000ES.  When I took it home I compared it to my Marantz DV9600 as a transport into an old Micromega DuoPro DAC, which I traded for many moons ago (I think the orig. list on it was $2.5k 12 yrs. ago) and the I've compared what that DAC does vs. expensive players before.  It had many similar qualities as the BCD-1 but you could hear the lack of timing and slight sluggishness of the DAC in the bass area in particular and the music flow of the BCD-1 was a bit better.  I still think that the Micromega holds its own against most CD players of today in the $2-4k range with a good transport.  I'm actually going to stick the Micromega in the bedroom system on the other side of the wall to the main system and zone 2 output of the rec'r in there goes into the SP1.7 (and the bedroom system also feeds 4 other places via a speaker switcher).  I'll be hooking a Sony 2000ES CD/SACD changer and an Oppo 980 universal player to the DAC.  I've used the Sony 2000ES before with it and it makes a great transport and the Oppo actually has a USB input too if I want to mess around with that.  I've had people seeing the Sony 2000ES play and assume they were hearing SACD when they were only hearing the CD layer when I had it in my basement system at one point.

In summary, I think the BCD-1 is an exceptional player at its price point.  While everyone has personal tastes when it comes to audio, it would not be hard to imagine a player of its sonic capabilities to be $5k or $6k retail or even more.  As I noted if I liked the Ayre 2-channel $6k universal player more for CD, I’d of bought it today.  I’m actually going to unbox it now and set-up my two Rel Strata III subs with the RTA now.  For those who have not seen today’s press release, it is below (moved it to a follow-up post as the message was too long for a single one), FYI.

[Phil A]

Press Release (that would not fit above):

"Bryston Introduces Hand Assembled BCD-1 Audiophile CD Player


Peterborough, Ontario August, 2007 —Bryston (www.bryston.ca) has announced the introduction of an audiophile Redbook CD player called the BCD-1. The design emphasis of the BCD-1 has been placed on exceptional build quality and outstanding sonic performance using fully discrete Class-A analog circuitry and a 192K/24Bit Crystal DAC. "We decided to build a REDBOOK-only CD player and I can hardly believe the response—customers are calling to tell me that the BCD-1 is the best sounding CD player they have ever heard," commented Bryston's James Tanner. “I think it also indicates that consumers are tired of uncertain new formats and just want a state of the art player for the thousands of CD's they already own."

Digital design: Within the digital domain, bit timing errors (called jitter) have been eliminated by perfectly synchronizing the player’s master clock and drive. The Crystal CS4398 DAC is an advanced generation chip using a combination of several different conversion methods to optimize the processing. Each premium DAC boasts dedicated power supplies—a separate, closely regulated and filtered digital power supply as well as a heavily regulated and filtered analog power supply with carefully routed electrical grounds. Finally, careful trace routing throughout the complete circuit architecture of the BCD-1 eliminates potential noise via capacitive coupling, which delivers those critical extra dB’s of noise and distortion reduction marking only the most outstanding equipment.

Discreet advantages: The Bryston BCD-1 CD Player uses discreet operational amplifiers after the DAC instead of the commonly used integrated circuits. The use of discrete devices enables Bryston engineers to exactly match the needs of the DAC and allow for a more robust output than IC-based amplifiers. The use of discrete devices also allows Bryston to select components with carefully matched input and output impedances based on specific in-circuit requirements.

Hand assembled with care: The BCD-1, like all Bryston products, is hand assembled and individually tested before leaving the factory. The BCD-1 is backed by a three year parts and labor warranty and has a US MSRP of $2395.00.

BCD-1 FEATURES:
• Redbook CD and CDR playback
• Fully Discrete Bryston Class A analog output stage
• Crystal 192k/24bit DAC
• Over-sampling is 128 times
• Independent Analog and Digital power supplies
• Balanced XLR and Unbalanced RCA Stereo outputs.
• Transformer coupled SPDIF and AES EBU Digital outputs
• Optical output
• RS-232 software upgrade
• Remote 12 Volt Trigger
• Full function IR remote control
• CD remote operates other Bryston products volume up/down/mute
• Cosmetically matches C-Series BP26/MPS2

SECIFICATIONS:
• Frequency Response - 20 Hz - 20 KHz - .2 DB
• Signal to Noise - 115 DB (un-weighted)
• THD plus Noise - .002%
• Jitter is - Negligible (below the residual of the Audio precision AP2700 test gear)
• Output Level - 2.3V Unbalanced - 4.6V Balanced
• Shipping Weight - 18 Lbs / 8.2 Kg
• Dimensions - 17 or 19 w / 11.25 d / 3.125 h inches
43.2 or 48.3 w / 28.6 d / 7.9 h cm

About Bryston: Bryston (www.bryston.ca) first opened for business in 1962 as a manufacturer of blood analysis equipment, and was named (as an acronym) for its three founders, Tony Bower, Stan Rybb, and John Stoneborough. In 1968, NASA engineer John Russell, Sr. relocated himself and his family to Canada from the US and bought the company, where his son Chris set to work designing the first Bryston amplifier. The Pro 3 made its debut in 1973, and since that time, Bryston components have become legendary for their hand-assembled build quality, performance and reliability in both the pro audio and consumer audio market segments. Bryston amplifiers are utilized in some of the world’s most renowned recording studios and owned by many discerning music industry professionals. Bryston applies manufacturing techniques and materials in the everyday assembly of their electronic equipment that are more typically utilized by the military and aerospace industries. Bryston is now based in Peterborough, Ontario Canada, just northeast of Toronto, and sold through over 150 dealers in North America and 60 countries worldwide.
"

[James Tanner]

[/quote]


In summary, I think the BCD-1 is an exceptional player at its price point.  While everyone has personal tastes when it comes to audio, it would not be hard to imagine a player of its sonic capabilities to be $5k or $6k retail or even more.  

[/quote]

HI Phil,

Without giving the Soundstage review away they arrived at many of the same conclusions you did.

"There may be better disc spinners out there, but I guarantee that many that are competitive with the BCD-1 cost multiples of its price"

[Phil A]

James, I should note I also found the background 'blacker/quieter' with the BCD-1.  It brings one right into the space of the recording.  As I noted before audio gear boils down to personal preferences vs. right or wrong.  I feel with the BCD-1 I'm hearing accuracy but that does not mean it will be as forgiving as some other players will be with a bad recording.  My preferences deal with hearing accuracy.  I do listen to a fair amt. of live music (and not all of it is amplified) and I'm particularing sensitive to the timbre, timing and accuracy of the sound of the instruments.  My Thiel 7.2s lean the same way.  Put a bad recording on and they are not at all forgiving.  I have B&W P6s in the basement system and they are far more forgiving of a bad recording.  I've been at demos of some high end equipment by manuf. at my local store when they have had seminars in the past and heard things that I felt had good qualities but overall bad tonality.

[James Tanner]

James, I should note I also found the background 'blacker/quieter' with the BCD-1.  It brings one right into the space of the recording.  As I noted before audio gear boils down to personal preferences vs. right or wrong.  I feel with the BCD-1 I'm hearing accuracy but that does not mean it will be as forgiving as some other players will be with a bad recording.  My preferences deal with hearing accuracy.  I do listen to a fair amt. of live music (and not all of it is amplified) and I'm particularing sensitive to the timbre, timing and accuracy of the sound of the instruments.  My Thiel 7.2s lean the same way.  Put a bad recording on and they are not at all forgiving.  I have B&W P6s in the basement system and they are far more forgiving of a bad recording.  I've been at demos of some high end equipment by manuf. at my local store when they have had seminars in the past and heard things that I felt had good qualities but overall bad tonality.

Hi Phil,

Two good points in my opinion:

1. Bryston has always felt that our job as an amplifier manufacture was to provide as clear and transparent a window on the system as possible - crap in --- crap out.
2. Lack of noise is a critical ingredient in allowing you to hear into the recording. The noise floors on our equipment are approaching the theoretical limits available given today's technology.

Both of these characteristic are highlighted in the review.

james

PS - we have a British review coming that also agrees.

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

Here is the link to the Soundstage Review on the Bryston BCD-1 CD Player.
 
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/bryston_bcd1.htm

james

[vegasdave]

Congrats on the good review, James. However, is there really a difference between the BCD1 and the DAC soundwise?

[James Tanner]

Congrats on the good review, James. However, is there really a difference between the BCD1 and the DAC soundwise?

Hi Dave,

I think that will be a contraversal topic. The Re-clocking and Re-sampling of an incoming digital signal vs the DAC/Drive being synchronized internally through a Master clock in the CD Player.

james