[DaveC113]

I just switched back to my SET amp, which is just a pair of EL34 tubes, no driver, no coupling capacitors, and a PS with a 5AR4 rectifier, CLC filter with Clarity TC series power supply caps. James OPTs, pure copper connectors. So, pretty high end... about as good as it gets except for the OPTS and Furutech rhodium connectors would up things a little bit, but it's a really good amp, it just has no gain.. the gain is slightly negative in fact. 

Is it better? Yes, but I'm not actually sure you'd be able to tell the Crown vs the EL34 SET blind in a lot of cases. Not kidding, it is really that close and the similar character of the sound is not something I expected. I think both my SET and the Crown are very transparent and neutral, letting the source and preamp define the sound. Of course the Crown has limitless power and on some music and playing at higher volumes it's a huge advantage. The trade off is the midrange is a little better with the SET amp. But these differences are pretty subtle and I don't listen at the limits of what the speakers can take all the time. The Crown makes spending big $ on a more powerful SET amp seem like a waste of money. 

The gain knobs on the Crown are at 9 o'clock as my preamp has 20 dB gain.

[OzarkTom]

I turned my gain controls from 3 to 9 o'clock and this has stripped my last objection to the Crown. The clinical sound that I was getting earlier has totally vanished. Dave is right, a person should try one of these before they buy any other high priced amp, SS or tube. Buy one used on ebay and if you don't like it, resell it.

[roscoeiii]

Anxiously awaiting  your Job comparison.

[paul79]

You for real Dave? That's pretty high endorsement. I might have to get a pair and run mono's These sound tweak-worthy.

[jk@home]

I turned my gain controls from 3 to 9 o'clock and this has stripped my last objection to the Crown. The clinical sound that I was getting earlier has totally vanished. Dave is right, a person should try one of these before they buy any other high priced amp, SS or tube. Buy one used on ebay and if you don't like it, resell it.

So I need a transparent, high gain, low impedance preamp (preferably with balanced outs and/or tubes) to make this amp work best? Hate to ditch the Dodds, but I could see getting a gain in dynamics going with something active.

Too bad my Sony TAP multi channel pre is in the HT system, it's got tons of extra gain.

[rodge827]

Well, I learned something tonight. I was getting a severe edge coming through the system tonight, I was getting very frustrated and fatigued. I was blaming my AC. I decided to crank the ITUBE wide open and use the gain controls on the amp. Voila, the edge totally disappeared. 

Now to find my balanced cables and hook up my Sony balanced using the gain controls on the amp. Tuesday I will report back on what I find out.

Tom,
How did you have the iTube configured?
I use mine as a buffer with no gain.

[a.wayne]

I just switched back to my SET amp, which is just a pair of EL34 tubes, no driver, no coupling capacitors, and a PS with a 5AR4 rectifier, CLC filter with Clarity TC series power supply caps. James OPTs, pure copper connectors. So, pretty high end... about as good as it gets except for the OPTS and Furutech rhodium connectors would up things a little bit, but it's a really good amp, it just has no gain.. the gain is slightly negative in fact. 

Is it better? Yes, but I'm not actually sure you'd be able to tell the Crown vs the EL34 SET blind in a lot of cases. Not kidding, it is really that close and the similar character of the sound is not something I expected. I think both my SET and the Crown are very transparent and neutral, letting the source and preamp define the sound. Of course the Crown has limitless power and on some music and playing at higher volumes it's a huge advantage. The trade off is the midrange is a little better with the SET amp. But these differences are pretty subtle and I don't listen at the limits of what the speakers can take all the time. The Crown makes spending big $ on a more powerful SET amp seem like a waste of money. 

The gain knobs on the Crown are at 9 o'clock as my preamp has 20 dB gain.

Thanks for the info Dave , for clarification , are you level matching and is your current speakers a single full range driver, Im not familiar with the model in your listing ...


Regards   

[OzarkTom]

Tom,
How did you have the iTube configured?
I use mine as a buffer with no gain.

I need the volume control with the Job amp because the Sony does not have one, so as a pre. I will try by-passing the Itube with IC's and balanced cables tomorrow night. Hopefully I won't have to turn the gain up too high on the Crown amp.

[rodge827]

I need the volume control with the Job amp because the Sony does not have one, so as a pre. I will try by-passing the Itube with IC's and balanced cables tomorrow night. Hopefully I won't have to turn the gain up too high on the Crown amp.

Ok got it.
Reviews on the iTube have stated that it sounds best as a buffer/buffer with gain, than as a single source preamp?
Perhaps the mods you described improved the sq to the preamp function?
 

[jk@home]

So does anyone know of a good line level shifter that could be used with this amp?

[DaveC113]

You for real Dave? That's pretty high endorsement. I might have to get a pair and run mono's These sound tweak-worthy.

Yeah, I'd say give them a shot if you need an amp or want something to play with. I wouldn't expect the last degree of midrange refinement you can get with a tube amp but it's a good amp at any price and the fact you can get them cheap is nice. Perfect for low frequency applications, probably good enough for full range on most systems.

a.wayne, no not precisely level-matching... it takes too much time to switch the cables between amps for it to matter that much anyway. Speakers are Omega Super 3 XRS and a 10" sealed sub. The speakers are very neutral, no crossover... good for hearing minute differences in a system for sure.

[guest61169]

So does anyone know of a good line level shifter that could be used with this amp?

When I was using the Crown in my video system, I never needed a direct box.  I went from Oppo 103 (as a preamp) to the Crown via RCA and had enough level (for condo living!) even with the Crown gain controls not up to max.   Now in my video system I use Yamaha HS8 powered speakers and they don't have RCA inputs so I use this direct box between the Oppo and the Yamahas:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Aphex%20124A

[forkliftHIFI]

Can anyone tell me how these crown amps compare with Ncores?  Interesting option to add 5 channel capability to my home theater.  3 more nc400 is a bit more than I can swing anytime soon. 

[sonicxtc]

I had been following the TPA 3116 thread and a couple of weeks ago, Wushuliu apprised me of this great thread. Thanks Wushuliu 

I'm seeking something that might fit well with Fritz speakers.  They  are rated around 87 db I was told they like a "high current" amplifier.
DaveC113, your positive comment on the Crown is really striking considering the level of gear you have and the comparison to an SET.
And, Ozark, since you've been "playing around" with a host of non-traditional amps for quite a while, you know the "competition."

So, for anyone who cares to chime in, please, I am wondering how you think this amplifier would fit with Fritz speakers. I'm particularly interested in knowing how this amp sounds at "moderate" volumes. Also, what might you guys suggest for a cost effective pre-amp? One input/output is fine.

Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge. 

[DaveC113]

forkliftHIFI and sonicxtc, I think the best thing to do is try them out with a vendor that has a return policy and let us know what YOU think. 

There's not too much more I can say, they are competent and seem especially good at producing bass at higher volumes since they have a ton of power on tap.

I may look and see if I can find some nicer PCB-mount connectors and binding posts, maybe try a couple little things to make them better but I think Harmon did a very good job.

For a preamp I'd look for something with a tube, every class D amp I've ever tried sounded significantly better with a tube preamp. Gain does not seem to be a problem with the Crown amps as I'm getting good results with a pre that has 20 dB gain, but a zero gain buffer should work fine too. It's possible a pre with gain would be better since Tom reports better sound with the Crown's gain controls turned down, with my setup I could try bypassing my preamp but I'll let Tom do it first, we both have the same Sony HAP-Z1ES music server... 

[a.wayne]

Found the Crown on sale for 350 with shipping, now to overcome it's a crown .... 

[roscoeiii]

Found the Crown on sale for 350 with shipping, now to overcome it's a crown .... 

Which model was that at this price? A sale or a refub/demo/return unit?

[a.wayne]

not sure if it is, on amazon, 1500 model

[jk@home]

When I was using the Crown in my video system, I never needed a direct box.  I went from Oppo 103 (as a preamp) to the Crown via RCA and had enough level (for condo living!) even with the Crown gain controls not up to max.   Now in my video system I use Yamaha HS8 powered speakers and they don't have RCA inputs so I use this direct box between the Oppo and the Yamahas:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Aphex%20124A

Thanks, the Aphex seems to have better specs then some of the others. I have an old Art Cleanbox that I can throw on there just to see what happens.

[werd]

Can't you guys find one to rent?  They must have them in local instrument and gear rental vendors.