[CanadianMaestro]

Did a test.

Thumbdrive: Kingston Data Traveler 32GB exactly as
https://www.itfactory.ca/kingston-datatraveler-g3-32gb-usb-flash-drive?gclid=CNf32eOYu9ACFVUvgQodoP4JlA#fo_c=79&fo_k=845d401f04cf17060707d124e1b397a8&fo_s=gplaca

G-Tech 500GB pocket hard drive with Furutech F-2 USB cable to connect to my powered hub.

Playlist all FLAC:
Bill Frisell, Heard It Thru The Grapevine
Shelby Lynne, Just A Little Lovin'
Sneakin' Out, Paint It Black (instrumental acoustic)
Pat Barber, Touch of Trash

For the life of me, I could not hear any difference on my floor system (BDP-1/BDA-1, LS27, 14BSST2). I listened to identical 30-sec stretches of these tracks (fact: auditory memory is extremely short -- several seconds at most).

What I find interesting is that, despite a 0.5m USB cable for my hard drive, there was no audible diff in my sense of timing and pacing of the music (thumb drive plugs direct into my powered hub).

So, there it is, for this specific thumbie and hard drive.

cheers

[Krutsch]

Did a test.

...

thumb drive plugs direct into my powered hub.

You need to remove the powered hub from the picture, and plug it directly into the BDP port without the USB hub plugged-in, if you believe it's possible that electrical noise from HDDs can pollute the system in an audible manner. This is the subjective hypothesis on why a flash drive might offer an improvement.

See this article on USB hubs:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html

...which concludes: "This shows us that a USB hub itself does not attenuate the conducted USB noise from the computer."

[zoom25]

I also plug everything directly off the BDP-1 without hubs. Sure it might use more energy on the BDP, but at least there is no need to worry about noise issues.

[CanadianMaestro]

If there's noise from my hub, which is plugged into my Triton/Typhon, it's not audible. Dead black backgrounds on my vocal and violin tracks.

back to the topic of this thread -- BDP-2
cheers

[CanadianMaestro]

See this article on USB hubs:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html

...which concludes: "This shows us that a USB hub itself does not attenuate the conducted USB noise from the computer."

The hub also does not add noise, according to that article.
"As you can see, placing the hub in the data chain doesn't do much to the noise... It's down to -103.5dB which is just a 1dB improvement".

"This shows us that a USB hub itself does not attenuate the conducted USB noise from the computer".
A straw man statement if I ever heard one. Nobody claimed that a USB hub attenuates noise. And who would use a hub for such a purpose? They're designed to accommodate multiple powered drives that normally would stress a limited-power device like BDP-1's rear jacks.

cheers,

[Mike-48]

You know this is a strange hobby in that there is a tendency to take sides based on a particular belief or opinion.  But I have learned that you really have to be open minded about it.  So many times in the blind listening tests I have taken part in over the years I go in with a specific opinion and get proved wrong.

So  I know I am stepping on thin ice here and maybe even suicidal saying this but I have found thumb drives just seem to sound better as well....

James, I agree -- I bought my first digital transport and DAC around 1991 and found that, to my distress, a $175 Kimber interconnect sounded notably better than the default cable. That $175 was a lot of money to me at the time, but worse -- my intellect demanded that it should not be a necessary expense. Yet I bought (and enjoyed) the cable.

NOW -- and I hope this doesn't make you think you were suicidal to speak -- if a thumb drive really does sound better through the BDP-2 than a spinning drive, wouldn't it be nice for Bryston to find out why this happens in its flagship player, and take some action to isolate and remove the problem? For normal people (not the super-rich targets of some high-end manufacturers), the price of the BDP-2 is a good chunk of change, and one would like to think it could be made immune to normal variations in system configuration. Surely, if anyone can do this, it should be Bryston, no?

[James Tanner]

James, I agree -- I bought my first digital transport and DAC around 1991 and found that, to my distress, a $175 Kimber interconnect sounded notably better than the default cable. That $175 was a lot of money to me at the time, but worse -- my intellect demanded that it should not be a necessary expense. Yet I bought (and enjoyed) the cable.

NOW -- and I hope this doesn't make you think you were suicidal to speak -- if a thumb drive really does sound better through the BDP-2 than a spinning drive, wouldn't it be nice for Bryston to find out why this happens in its flagship player, and take some action to isolate and remove the problem? For normal people (not the super-rich targets of some high-end manufacturers), the price of the BDP-2 is a good chunk of change, and one would like to think it could be made immune to normal variations in system configuration. Surely, if anyone can do this, it should be Bryston, no?

Hi

It is certainly something I have looked at but so far trying to figure out what or how to measure what differences exist or do not exist has alluded me.

i assume the differences have to do with the drive itself rather than an internal interaction with the BDP-2 as some customers have reported that different manufacturers of USB rotary drives sound different.  I have a number of customers that tell me the 'CRUZER' thumb-drives sound best.

james

[zoom25]

Cruzer vs. the Corsair?

[James Tanner]

Cruzer vs. the Corsair?

Yes the SanDisk Cruser

james

[zoom25]

Yes the SanDisk Cruser

james

So you preferred the Cruser GTX you recently ordered over the Sandisk Cruzer?

[James Tanner]

So you preferred the Cruser GTX you recently ordered over the Sandisk Cruzer?

Have not received it yet.

james

[zoom25]

Have not received it yet.

james

Okay. Do you think you could link me the specific Cruzer drive you were talking about? Thanks!

Meanwhile, I'm here about to run a test between 4 flash drives at the same time head-to-head to see where things stack up. The power draw should be negligible between the front vs. rear ports.

[CanadianMaestro]

LOL here ya go. Have fun listening to thumbdrives    .

https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-Cruzer-Frustration-Free-Packaging-SDCZ36-064G-AFFP/dp/B007JR5304/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1480432108&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=cruzer+gtx

Me...I prefer to listen to....





cheers

[Marius]

me too, much better than:


 

LOL here ya go. Have fun listening to thumbdrives    .

https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-Cruzer-Frustration-Free-Packaging-SDCZ36-064G-AFFP/dp/B007JR5304/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1480432108&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=cruzer+gtx

Me...I prefer to listen to....





cheers

[CanadianMaestro]

^ ah, Marius...at least those guys use exactly the same sticks in all those bins.

Maybe they've discovered something sinister?

 

More for ya...





You can tell she is frustrated with testing USB sticks.....

[zoom25]

LMAOOO you guys are funny.

So I did end up trying my 4 flash drives along with the 2TB WD hard drive (which is what I've been using for 99% of the time). Everything plugged into BDP-1 directly.

Before announcing my findings, I think it's equally important to tell what worked and what didn't work in my testing:

Didn't work:
- Headphones. Even the HD 800 were kinda useless.
- Rapid switching between drives (0-15 second interval just fries your brain, 15-30 is better)

Did work:
- Speakers in a treated place - made it so much easier than headphones and untreated rooms.
- Listening to one album on a flash drive for 20-30 mins non stop, even passively (doesn't matter), and then switching to the hard drive to either do a track by track swap or a 20 second interval swap.
- I think it's important to listen for an extended period of time to get a sense of the profile.

Results:

Hard Drive vs. USB:
- The upper mids and the treble region for the vocals (as usual) helped differentiate between the hard drive and flash drive.
- The flash drive had more texture in the vocals and it sounded fuller. The hard drive seemed more dry and relaxed in comparison.
- The reverb tails were also longer on the hard drive, which could be pleasing for certain tracks or preferences, but ultimately, the flash drive came out on top.
- I might be switching to team flash drive
- Winner: Flash drive

Flash Drive vs. Flash Drive:
- Three of the flash drives were USB 2.0 and from many years back (one of them was given free in a loot bag  ). One of them was a newer USB 3.0
- Between the flash drives, it was a lot tougher to find the differences. Perhaps, the newer USB 3.0 had slightly better resolution, but it seemed inconclusive. Plus, I was wiped after doing hard drive and flash drive
- Result: inconclusive.

Going to take a break and figure out how I would even begin to split a hard drive into smaller flash drives. I really wanted the hard drive to win for convenience's sake.

I'll wait for James' result on the Corsair vs. Cruzer drives. The Sandisk Cruzer drives are much cheaper than the Corsair drives in Canada from what I'm seeing.

(Can't believe I'm actually talking about the sound differences between drives on the web to other crazy audio people...In my defence, I take where my ears lead me. I can't unhear these things. I just observe and go from there.)

[CanadianMaestro]

I will betcha it is also dependent on:
-quality of the recording (masters used)
-cable connecting hard drive to BDP (changing it may enhance SQ from HD)
-anxiety level of listener at time of comparison (this will influence auditory sensitivity and bias)
-presence of environmental distractors
-time of day listening is done
-room temperature and fluctuations thereof
-whether listener was well-fed just prior to listening tests

probably more, but what would be the point?
Also, your findings are valid for your system only. Important qualifier that happens to be conveniently left out.

You need to try out more sticks, to increase the sample size for improved validity in your system.   

cheers zoom. all in good humor.

[zoom25]

I will betcha it is also dependent on:
-quality of the recording (masters used)
-cable connecting hard drive to BDP (changing it may enhance SQ from HD)
-anxiety level of listener at time of comparison (this will influence auditory sensitivity and bias)
-presence of environmental distractors
-time of day listening is done
-room temperature and fluctuations thereof
-whether listener was well-fed just prior to listening tests

probably more, but what would be the point?
Also, your findings are valid for your system only. Important qualifier that happens to be conveniently left out.

You need to try out more sticks, to increase the sample size for improved validity in your system.   

cheers zoom. all in good humor.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ron-swanson-computer-throw-out-parks-and-rec.gif

[zoom25]

I actually control for most of those things you've listed: mood, time of day, brain fatigue, hunger, isolation from external noise, temperature, lights.

I've been doing that for many years now and been saying the importance for testing in same conditions or just doing it for a LONG time in all kinds of conditions to even it out.

I don't have a different/better cable for connecting hard drive to BDP. These things aren't the end of the world. After a few hours, you end up re-adjusting.

Besides, most people think we're crazy for needing a separate player to play music instead of a typical PC.

[CanadianMaestro]

Besides, most people think we're crazy for needing a separate player to play music instead of a typical PC.

True. Most people also
-don't appreciate top-end sound quality and what it takes to achieve it.
-don't understand Evolution and still subscribe to Creation.
-believe humans co-existed with dinosaurs.

(I'm just into Lists, aren't I?)