[Don_S]

I don't want to start an Apple/Microsoft debate here but I am in a similar situation.  I am thinking of getting a new computer and don't know whether to go Apple or buy a Windows machine BEFORE Win8.   

W8 may be a game changer for sure but good or bad remains to be seen.  Early reports are not favorable.

http://beta.fool.com/equitybull/2012/07/31/will-windows-8-be-best-catalyst-apple/8236/?ticker=AAPL&source=eogyholnk0000001

My only Apple experience is the new iPad (AKA iPad 3). I realize the iPad is a far cry from a full Apple OS but my iPad may prove to be a gateway drug.  On a more serious note a friend of mine has served as my Windows tech support for many years.  He really knows his way around a Windows machine and associated software applications.  Several years ago he went Mac and subsequently replaced his family's collection of Windows machines with Apple. He has encouraged me to do the same.  I find the thought scary.  I am not sure what will happen to my current Word documents and TurboTax files.  I also don't want to learn a new "language". But from the gist of the article I posted a link to I may have to eventually learn one no matter which OS I choose.

Dang, I hate when the game changes. 

A friend of mine works at Microsoft and say that windows 8 is agame changing product.
Miscosoft is also coming with their hardware - just like apple... Live and learn.

I was super impressed with all Mac laptops - they all offered something unique.
We have always had 15 or 17 inch laptops as desktop replacement but now I am even considering a desktop and an 11 inch but then miscosoft is coming with a hardware and OS package 

Not long time ago miscosoft was considered a monopoly and apple a poor soul and now the tables have turned. IBM, HP, Dell are somewhere in between ... Healthy competition is good.

[saisunil]

If you need a laptop now - pick an apple laptop - any laptop that fits your needs and budget and you'd be more than happy ... if you can wait - I'd wait for Win 8 ... so I can't wait for Win 8 OS/Hardware combo!

iPad is so good  that it has become sickening ... a habit hard to break   

I did not care much about iPad 1 and 2 but the new iPad - has a performance that makes it not only fun but also so smooth to use ...

I went to an apple store with my kids and one of the reps showed me a really cool trick - that showed its power ... he opened about a dozen programs one after the other and by the time he was done opening the last program - all the programs were done loading ... wow ... that is performance that once could get only in a high performance server or loaded desktop apple/windoz before ... wow!

[mgalusha]

No to derail this too much (I am typing this on my MBA) but I did install the release version of Win8 on Friday, on my music player PC of all things. The company I work for is a MS partner and MS made it available for DL on 8/15, so having a spare 60G SSD and the day off... I tried it because of posts on the jplay forum that it supposedly sounds better than Win7. I can't really say for sure, not something one can AB. I will say that it seems to sound good.

As for the UI, I think it will change some things. Very much a tablet style interface, a lot of information on the home screen and more traditional stuff is still easy enough to access. I think on a machine with a good multitouch pad it's going to be very good.

I am with saisunil, if you need a light, fast and elegant machine now, the Apple sure is nice (and that is a 180* change for me) but after the first of the year, it may change up quite a bit. Interesting article on the Verge from a die hard Apple guy. http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/16/3246185/this-is-my-next-windows-8

[JohnR]

Several years ago he went Mac and subsequently replaced his family's collection of Windows machines with Apple. He has encouraged me to do the same.  I find the thought scary.  I am not sure what will happen to my current Word documents and TurboTax files.

FWIW, you can run Windows on a Mac with VMWare Fusion, I do this when I have to. So far it works OK, the only thing I found that didn't quite work right so far was USB audio, which worked with some (measurement) programs and not so well with others. The downside is that you have to buy a Windows license. And it's sluggish, but I suspect would be much better with an SSD.

There's also another similar program called Parallels.

It's a big step to make if you depend on specific Windows programs though...

[Pez]

A friend of mine works at Microsoft and say that windows 8 is agame changing product.
Miscosoft is also coming with their hardware - just like apple... Live and learn.

  Ya, it's so game changing by the end of 2013 nobody will be using Microsoft anymore. Windows 8 is widely being panned as a huge mistake for desktops and laptops. A lot of people are saying it is terrible and frankensteinesque.

Microsoft Surface is a pathetic attempt to be apple by a company who is clearly grasping straws. They want to sell software and hardware and keep OEMs happy? That sounds like the ravings of an imbecile... Oh wait, Steve Ballmer IS an imbecile. Plus Surface is only going to be sold online and at Microsoft stores. How many of you live in a state with a Microsoft store? How many microsoft stores are outside of the US? I'll give you a hint, less than 1. MS is going nowhere fast. I can't wait to watch them blow it with windows 8. Literally can't w8.   

[mr_bill]

...I would gather from that post that you are a mac lover...

[Pez]

That I am.

However I was a Microsoft hater FAR before I was a Mac lover. Oddly the two don't coincide. Years of viruses, crappy computers that were unpredictable with software and just plain awful experiences I started hating PCs in 2001. I bought my first Mac in 2007. Suddenly I didn't dread using my computer. Macs are far from perfect, but that's better than near worthless. 

[saisunil]

Pez you are passionately funny 
I want w8 - If it does not work there is always Mac book ...

[Philistine]

I've gone one step further.

My iPad only gave me 80% of the functionality I needed for business traveling (couldn't use QuickBooks) and also under pressure to switch from QuickBooks on line to QB's Windows version on my MacBook (for compatibility with accountant).  The only option was to go back to the dark side and install Windows, which version, anti-virus software - WTF, deja vu time.  Noway did I want to be contaminated again with clunky and inadequate Windoze.

Solution - found an IT provider that hosts QB's Windows on a remote server, using Windows server version.  This allows me to have 100% functionality with an iPad, and run Windows on my MacBook without having to install it.  Perfect solution, I continue to eliminate Windoze from my life and can run Windows based business software and my iPad becomes a full functioning Windows desktop.  I've had a MacBook and iMac for 3 years with zero issues and no wasted time, both machines are working as good as they did from day 1.  Contrasting this with Microsoft who stole my time by having to fix inadequacies in their operating systems, and crappy hardware from HP/Dell etc etc...

Relevance - my IT guy who delivered the solution is a big Windows fan and specifically loves the robustness of Windows Server, he's dreading Windows 8 and advising most of his clients to stick with XP...

Also agree with Pez on Ballmer, Apple announces new products with firm release dates and prices - all laid back but very slick and professional.  In contrast Ballmer jumps on the stage with his pseudo enthusiasm and sweaty armpits, new product but no price and no release date - what a PR flop.  It's interesting to see his 'vision' when the iPhone and iPad where launched, and this guys the CEO?

[Pez]

I watched the full presentation of the Surface. When you listen to Ballmer and crew speak it's painful. They have terrible metaphors, 'this is your surface for entertaining, this is your surface for work' ugh. Not only that but they stuttered and stammered their way through the presentation. You don't even realize how great of a presenter Jobs and crew were/are until you hear these amateurs try to present.

The most hilarious part about the presentation is when the thing crashed mid presentation. check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac
fucking wannabes.

[Tyson]

Haha, crashed in the presentation, that is some funny sh!t :O

[TheChairGuy]

Competition improves the breed - no matter how meager the competition

[Andre2]

(...)You don't even realize how great of a presenter Jobs and crew were/are until you hear these amateurs try to present.

The most hilarious part about the presentation is when the thing crashed mid presentation. check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac
fucking wannabes.

I saw the stuff above... really funny. 

As I got my first apple computer earlier this month, I have been asking myself why I had not done this move earlier. 

[Pez]

Competition improves the breed - no matter how meager the competition

Agreed, but do you ever feel like its team USA in Olympic basketball vs Ukraine? Sometimes it doesn't matter if the competition even shows up.

[TheChairGuy]

Agreed, but do you ever feel like its team USA in Olympic basketball vs Ukraine? Sometimes it doesn't matter if the competition even shows up.

Ha - something like that, Jason.

My experience with Windows based PC's has been very good the past ~ 3 years, tho.  Once IE was primarily switched to Firefox and Anti-Vir was installed...I have not had 1 issue.

Meanwhile, both my business partner and wife had fatal crashes of their Mac's.  I've used their Mac's extensively and I don't find their OS to be any better, in aggregate, than Windows7. 

I'm being totally frank about this as I have no ego in this game...and I am fortunate to be able to afford either; but I vote rationally/objectively and reason tells me Windows PC's are simply a better buy for my primarily business and leisure use my computers get.

I really debated the necessity of moving to Mac about 3 years ago as I was fed up with all the crap but I bought another PC and since the aforementioned changes, it's been very smooth sailing for me (and for my wife that adopted the same safe practices).

I just don't find the ~40% spread between roughly similar machines from Apple and Windows to be worthwhile.  If I REALLY had to buy Apple quality, I'd get a new Samsung PC which simply apes most or a lot of the top end features of a Mac for about 15-20% less.

John

[JohnR]

I just don't find the ~40% spread between roughly similar machines from Apple and Windows to be worthwhile.

I'm not so sure this generalization holds any more, and I think it might just depend on what metrics you consider important. For example, I looked through the online catalog of a local B&M retailer recently and the cheapest laptop with more than 1366x768 resolution was... a Macbook Air. And those are not slugs any more.

On the other hand, the worst place to buy SSDs and memory upgrades would have to be the Apple Store. There you are talking 100%, not 40%. And Apple seem to be working hard to make their laptops non-upgradeable again.

Swings and roundabouts, I guess, pick what's best for your needs.

[brj]

FWIW, you can run Windows on a Mac with VMWare Fusion, I do this when I have to. So far it works OK, the only thing I found that didn't quite work right so far was USB audio, which worked with some (measurement) programs and not so well with others. The downside is that you have to buy a Windows license. And it's sluggish, but I suspect would be much better with an SSD.

There's also another similar program called Parallels.

It's a big step to make if you depend on specific Windows programs though...

The free and open source "VirtualBox" is another similar option.  I don't use it often, but I have Win7 (64 bit) installed inside it on my 2011 MBP and haven't had a problem in the 8 months I've used it.  I intentionally have a fairly minimal install, but it's handled even old hardware without issue.  (Example: I've installed serial-to-USB drivers to power an adapter to talk to a DCX.  Windows didn't like the first driver and took a second iteration to work successfully, but the hardware translation provided by VB worked without issue.)

[mgalusha]

The free and open source "VirtualBox" is another similar option.  I don't use it often, but I have Win7 (64 bit) installed inside it on my 2011 MBP and haven't had a problem in the 8 months I've used it.  I intentionally have a fairly minimal install, but it's handled even old hardware without issue.  (Example: I've installed serial-to-USB drivers to power an adapter to talk to a DCX.  Windows didn't like the first driver and took a second iteration to work successfully, but the hardware translation provided by VB worked without issue.)

Virtual Box works amazingly well. I use it for various tasks including running a 32bit version of windows since all the TubeCad software is 16bit and won't run on a 64bit machine, which nearly everything is these days.

[JohnR]

The free and open source "VirtualBox" is another similar option.

Excellent, thank you.

I actually just bought Fusion 4 earlier today. Now I'm about to go through a song and dance to get my VMs running on a computer with less physical memory...

[JohnR]

Well I think we're getting well OT by now, but... I can't create a Leopard VM in Fusion or VirtualBox    Bloody Apple doesn't allow it. Irony: I can run 12-year old Windows programs in a VM on a current Mac, but I can't run 6-year old Mac programs on a current Mac, VM or no... It looks like I will have to buy Leopard or SL Server.