[dflee]

Ignorance truly is bliss.
I have been on this journey many number of years now with equipment that I enjoyed but could never put a finger on what (for lack of a better term) symmetry really meant.
I lived with my system through minimal changes cause I felt the sound was good enough and I wasn't willing to spend exorbitant amount of money seeking it for a number of years.
Through equipment failure I started down the rabbit hole in search. Having a speaker with four 10" woofers produced great low end and the speaker went down to 22 hrz. but until
I really looked at replacements found speakers that while not reaching the nether region were so much cleaner with the bass produced and still extend quite well.
My problem was I never could get classical music to sound uncongested. I just attributed it to the speaker just not able to handle a full orchestra. I had the same situation with my previous
speakers so felt like it shall be lived with. With my new speakers I went in search of a new amp. I went through a number brands and class of amps. I got burnt out trying and quite honestly was thinking of just packing it all in. I really wanted to like "D" amps but after a few found I wanted to stick with A, A/B even though the ones I bought still didn't fit the bill. I decided that I would go on one last shot before giving up (at this point a lot of money drained away) and I was so frustrated. I got a Class A to 18 watt before sliding into A/B amp and am floored. The quickness of this amp and the ability to play full orchestra on a couple of 6" cones has me flabbergasted. Not only does the system sound clear and clean but the instruments have gained weight and heft with maintaining incredible detail and black background. So the thought of I will never be able to afford a speaker to do classical ended up being the right amp to handle it
with ease. I am a happy camper with a far better knowledge of how to listen to music.

Don

[mresseguie]

Don,

As I was reading your post, I was half-anticipating that you were going to tell us that room treatment was what you were missing. So....is the anonymous amp a Coda #8, or something else?

[FullRangeMan]

My problem was I never could get classical music to sound uncongested.

My unsolicited advice is you could try a Crossoverless FR speaker as Frugal Horn XL or Lii Audio F15/F18 OB, if you dont listen in hi SPL, IMO.

A nice amp just in final stretch of life is the Schiit Aegir $699 (not the silly Aegir 2).

[newzooreview]

It sounds like the speakers were half the issue, and the right amp was the other half.

Was there a reason for withholding information about the exact equipment being discussed?

[Zuman]

I had very much the same situation: large ensembles sounded congested and, frankly, I didn't find much joy in listening to anything except intimate groups: small combo jazz, with a bit of chamber music.
I was using a NAD M32 Class D amp, which was "highly recommended" by Stereophile.
I found a somewhat-related solution to yours: I switched to a Modwright KWH 225i, an integrated hybrid stereo amp with a triode tube front-end and a solid state output stage. It's Class A for the first 25 watts, but runs to 225 a side as needed.
What a difference! I can honestly say that I've never had the thought "Yech. Congested..." enter my brain since I've had the Modwright in my system. What a difference an amp can make!

[Tyson]

I’d say the amp-speaker matching is the most important thing and the room is the second most important thing.

[Early B.]

I’d say the amp-speaker matching is the most important thing...

There is no set of rules -- it's 94.5% experimentation. A better speaker/amp combo is always possible.

[FullRangeMan]

There is no set of rules -- it's 94.5% experimentation. A better speaker/amp combo is always possible.

Iam forced to agree with you. Never liked AB amps, full Class A always sounded better to me, but there is Class D and GanFet amps.

[Tone Depth]

Coda #8/Rubicon 6 still?

[dflee]

I didn’t want it to be about a particular amp and speaker but the #8 from Coda
is an exceptional amp and really makes the Rubicon 6 from Dali sound incredible.
The interconnects have a good deal to do with it too. I have found synergy and symmetry.

[TomS]

I didn’t want it to be about a particular amp and speaker but the #8 from Coda
is an exceptional amp and really makes the Rubicon 6 from Dali sound incredible.
The interconnects have a good deal to do with it too. I have found synergy and symmetry.

I had the Coda 07x pre and Coda 16.0 amp here (100w class A), and it is extraordinary.

[SET Man]

Hey!

    Well, all watts are not created equal.

     Congratulation and enjoy the music.

[Speedskater]

While there are a few wrong amplifier/loudspeaker combinations,
most of the time it's the loudspeakers.
and sometimes it's the room or speaker location.
* * * * * * * * *
thinking about it more:
There are some bad amplifiers in the audiophile world.

[poseidonsvoice]

Indeed, Coda #8 is a beautiful design through and through. Hopefully you got a good deal on it! The output stage has bipolar devices which contrasts with MOSFET output stages that Pass prefers and that’s where Eric Lauchli (of Coda) and Pass differ. Coda is basically the modern equivalent of what Threshold would be today in my view. And they are an understated company which is cool. Very well sold and distributed in Asia. Massive 3kva toroid - WOW!

Best,
Anand.

[kmmd]

Glad that you’re enjoying your set up Don!  Happy listening!

The amp mentioned appears to be a Coda #8 v1 with those specs.  I have a Pass Labs X250.8 and Coda #16.  They are both excellent amps with the Pass being warmer and Coda being more neutral, defined and airy.  They’re both quite dynamic and handle transients well.   Somehow the Coda 16 runs cool with its 100 watts of Class A bias as compared to the Pass which is downright hot even when idle.  I don’t think that I’ll let either one go anytime soon however.  Anyway they both drive my YG Carmel 2’s well.  I’ll see how the Coda powers my new YG Acoustics speakers which I just ordered.  I’m moving up several levels in the Reference 3 line. 

Ken

[poseidonsvoice]

Somehow the Coda 16 runs cool with its 100 watts of Class A bias as compared to the Pass which is downright hot even when idle. 
Ken

The reason for this is that the CODA 16 has a precision bias controller (i.e. sliding bias) which changes according to the presenting load impedance. It doesn’t constantly run at the highest bias current (which would be needed to pump out 100 watts into an 8 ohm load) - however, the Pass does. I recall Krell did this with several of their designs as well.

The Pass has a set bias current which is always the same. You’ll note that it’s idle power consumption from the wall outlet is 500 watts. That’s even when it is putting out just 1 watt of output power. I don’t have similar spec’d data on the CODA 16, however, I do know that it will draw 1000 watts from the wall outlet but ONLY when delivering maximum power into a load. Most home audio situations will never reach that level, since music has a crest factor and is hugely dynamic, unlike sinewave testing in the lab which is a more brutal test for an amplifier.

In any case, enjoy your amplifiers!

Best,
Anand.

[kmmd]

Thanks for the explanation Anand! Greatly appreciated.

Ken

[dflee]

Funny thing is I was always told about how hot the class A amps get and was concerned.
Turns out the #8 even playing at moderate volume is not as hot as the Musical Fidelity or Cambridge
units and they’re A/B.

Don

[Freo-1]

Don,


Congratulations on getting a combination you are happy with.   It's THE challenge with audio.  CODA amps are great.  They are quite similar (in principal) to the Threshold Stasis amps of days gone by.  On thing that gets overlooked is that components themselves are improving. Improved performance and thermal handling often translates into better sonics.


Speakers are a intensely personal decision as to what is preferred.  I've had speakers that have sounded meh with one set of electronics, but when fed with different electronics, suddenly sounded great.  Very glad to hear you have a set you are happy with.  I share your frustration looking for the system sound you are happy with.  For me, the ATC speakers, driven with the right electronics, can get classical right.


Class D amps have come a long way.  Many find the power supplied from them to be just what the doctor ordered.  Having said that, the only switching amp setup I have kept are the Devialet.  They are a very unique design, in that they are the only switching amp that does not employ output filtering, and uses Class A voltage drive to the output.  The DAC integration provides among the best SNR and distortion in the industry.  The Speaker Active Matching is a great feature, makes any supported speaker sound better. 
[size=78%] [/size]


I would still be using Pass Labs/CODA gear if not for the Devialet solution.  Enjoy, and happy listening!