[Tangram]

I’ve got 300 plus hours on my M3 Sapphires and still find higher frequencies are often too energetic, even though my room is treated. Bright recordings are BRIGHT, but other recordings that I’ve historically felt are good can also sound peaky. I tend to just turn the volume down a few db when that happens but I wish I didn’t have to do that. I will continue to be patient but my sense is that the treble is a tad tipped up.

[Early B.]

I’ve got 300 plus hours on my M3 Sapphires and still find higher frequencies are often too energetic, even though my room is treated. Bright recordings are BRIGHT, but other recordings that I’ve historically felt are good can also sound peaky. I tend to just turn the volume down a few db when that happens but I wish I didn’t have to do that. I will continue to be patient but my sense is that the treble is a tad tipped up.

Could be lots of reasons for tipped-up treble. Your Sapphires may need even more break-in time or it could be one or more of your interconnects, speaker cables, or a component. Identify the weakest link in your system and that will likely be the culprit.

[Rusty Jefferson]

That recording isn't bright. Just the opposite, really. That little brushes sound is the only real treble in the beginning of the song. Brightness isn't the issue in this instance, imo.

[dallaire1]

Thanks for all the response guy's ! been looking to purchase some audiophile downloads at few sites. I had done so much research on the different streaming services out there before choosing Tidal. I tossed around QoBuzz for a while but kept hearing about MQA as the holy grail yada yada... my buddy has quite an extensive full blown Linn system and he uses QoBuzz and seems to be happy with it but I actually prefer what I have for a ton less money ! I think I am just an open baffle freak, have been for years. Every box speaker (TO ME) sounds lacking when compared. Just my preference. So I might do some more research again on the streaming services, thing is everyone says something different regarding "the best"

[Tyson]

MQA is a way to compress hi rez files.  In the old days when we were bandwith limited I could see the utility of something like that.  But now?  There's no need for it.  Which is why I like Qobuz - they don't compress anything, you get the full hi rez file.

[dallaire1]

If that is the case I will definitely make the switch. It would be interesting to take a poll on streaming services here at Audio Circle ? just for kicks, if it hasn't already been done..? still researching hi-res audio download sites to get a different perspective of recording qualities. 

[Tyson]

If that is the case I will definitely make the switch. It would be interesting to take a poll on streaming services here at Audio Circle ? just for kicks, if it hasn't already been done..? still researching hi-res audio download sites to get a different perspective of recording qualities. 

It's funny, if you read the literature from MQA or any of the marketing materials around it, they try very very hard to obscure the fact that it's a compression scheme.  But, well, it jolly well IS.   

[dallaire1]

Just activated my QoBuz account lol !! Seriously. I'll let you guy's know, thanks again !

[Mr. Big]

the format is MUCH less important than the recording itself and how well the time was taken to do it right.

[Tyson]

the format is MUCH less important than the recording itself and how well the time was taken to do it right.

True.  And the beauty of the modern world is that you can sign up for both Tidal and Qobuz and compare the same recording via each service, in real time.  That makes it easy to determine if one sounds better than the other.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Here is an example: Karl Benjamin (Friends) on Tidal. Recording sounds beautiful "at first" then a few seconds into the song I can hear what sounds like "clicks of static" in the highs that got picked up from something in the recording ?? otherwise sounds very good indeed. Again this is just one example, I don't even know if most people "non critical listeners" would even notice.

Tidal, Qobuz, CD, download, it doesn't matter if what he's hearing in this song sounds like "clicks of static". That's an issue with the system/room or how the OP perceives sound. Has everyone listened to the start of the track?

[dallaire1]

I had to get on here a speak the truth. I can't believe there IS such an apparent difference between the two streaming services. I have now done a couple hours of really critical listening with no HVAC on etc. QoBuz is without a doubt to my ears much better overall sound quality. I have listened to just recordings I have collected on Tidal and compared them to QoBuz, there is a much "unveiled" and "shimmer" in the top end that is noticeably better. The vocals are "fuller" having more body and up front presentation. I would have never believed it if I had not done A/B's in my own room with TOTALLY familiar material. I will say, I think the only way anyone could tell a difference was to be listening on a play back system that can even point these things out. Perhaps that is why opinions are all over the map regarding "some" streaming reviews.

Thanks for pointing out this to me, I am extremely satisfied with the obvious upgrade !

Never would have thunk it

[dallaire1]

I do think Rusty is correct regarding the Karl B. Recording, it has artifacts in the treble maybe a minute into the song. I don't think anything is going to correct for that. As for the two services, Tyson nailed it.

[Tangram]

Could be lots of reasons for tipped-up treble. Your Sapphires may need even more break-in time or it could be one or more of your interconnects, speaker cables, or a component. Identify the weakest link in your system and that will likely be the culprit.

When I changed one component - the speakers - the treble tipped up. I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the speakers are the cause. Analog front end, tube preamp and phono stage, and Class A amplification. I am hopeful the treble will tone down a bit still but with 300 hours on the speakers, I have to think that changes from here are incremental. I will play around a bit more with toe-in but much more and the soundstage will fizzle. I am also planning some tube rolling. Currently using Siemens but I have a matched quad of Amperex Bugle Boys I can roll in.

[Early B.]

When I changed one component - the speakers - the treble tipped up. I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the speakers are the cause.

The speakers could be the cause, but more likely they are revealing a weakness downstream that your previous speakers were unable to do.

[Tangram]

I don’t wish to hijack the OP’s thread. Thanks for your comments. I will keep them in mind as I fine tune things in the coming weeks.

[Mr. Big]

For some floors and rooms try taking the spikes off, spikes can cause brightness on some floors and rooms acoustics, they are very easy to remove, the front will still have the footers where the spikes screw into which will give you the tilt-back needed. 2nd going from one sound you had become used to then going to an open baffle design will be different. Try removing the front spikes. I have no brightness in my system unless it is on the recordings, but your cables can make a huge difference, the speaker only gives you what it is being fed.

https://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/spiking-your-speakers-whats-the-point/

[mick wolfe]

I was once a big advocate of spiking about everything, speakers included. Now the only place spikes are used is under my equipment rack, but the components on the rack are "decoupled" using various footers. In my experience, spiking speakers or speaker stands to a concrete floor does create a lively presentation, but on the down side, there is an added brightness and a lack of natural warmth. Eventually fatigue sets in.(at least for me) Bottom line, decoupling of some ilk has to be added to the equation. In addition and from an experience years ago, directly spiking a floor standing speaker to a suspended wood floor was a sonic disaster. I quickly went back to decoupling devices. Now most of what I said above applies to standard box type speakers, but when I had Spatial's, I preferred to decouple them from the floor as well. YMMV, but that's been my experience.

[RonP]

I'm not a fan of MQA - it seems to be all marketing jibbbery pokery for the purposes of collecting royalties

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHkqWZ9jzA0

[geerock]

I'm not a fan of MQA - it seems to be all marketing jibbbery pokery for the purposes of collecting royalties

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHkqWZ9jzA0

Agree 100%.