Griffen Powerwave Amp and Omega TS-1's

Bwanagreg · « **on:** 4 Mar 2004, 10:06 pm »

I receved a Griffin Powerwave amp today and tried it out with my TS-1s. More detailed comments are in the Square Circle, but I wanted to post here for folks that are considering low-cost options for driving Omegas.

The Powerwave/TS-1 combo sounded as good in many respects (perhaps even better in terms of detail) as my AMC 2030s el-34 amp did with these speakers. The AMC 2030s costs about $600, at the bottom of the range for new tube amps, and requires in my opinion better tubes (I use Electo-Harmonix tubes - $50 for a set) and tube dampers to sound right. By the time you get decent cables you can easily spend >$800 just for amplification. Add in a decent preamp and CD player, ... you get the idea.

The Powerwave was purchased online and delivered to my door for under $100. I used my laptop as source. Software was J River MediaCenter and an ASIO driver that combined cost another $90. Any reasonably current PC or Mac can run this stuff, and 200Gig hardrives can be bought for $100 now. The difference in price between a tube amp + accessories and the Powerwave could get you a complete computer-based front end.

I mention this option specifically in this forum since I doubt the Powerwave would have much luck driving complex multi-way speakers in anything but a small room and at low volume levels. Omegas are a great match for this amp.

I think this represent a new price/performance level. I can't think of a better low cost option.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 11:51 pm »

Greg, when you compare the Powerwave to the AMC are you being objective about the sound characteristics of a tube amp? I have a hard time believing the two sound similar.

Anyway I too just received my Powerwave but don't have anything besides my dinky little Apple pro speakers to try it out on. I don't think they would do to well driving my VMPS.

Your review of the Omegas sounds promising. Does the entire Omega line have similar sound characteristics? I'm really looking at a small bookshelf speaker...haven't pulled the trigger on the RAD micros yet.

albee · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 12:05 am »

Where did you guys get your Powerwave from? I've been on backorder with Griffin for 2 weeks now. They're telling me the end of next week, now.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 12:10 am »

http://shop.macconnection.com/web/Shopping/Product.htm?catalog%5Fname=PCCGeneral&category%5Fname=&product%5Fid=433433&variant%5Fid=&SearchLogID=%7B7A1EB58B%2DCDCD%2D46EC%2DB284%2DB5233E06EF3D%7D

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 12:26 am »

I suppose I can't really answer the question as to how objective I am. I have been a tube bigot for about 15 years now and have not met many inexpensive solid state amps that I liked. Consider my comments for what they are - one person's first impressions. I do point out in my comments in the Square Circle that there are some important differences in soundstage depth and perceived power (in favor of the tube amp). Also note that I am not getting rid of my AMC amp - it is staying right where it is. At least for now.

In terms of tonal balance though ("warmth"), the two amps do sound more similar than different to me, and the Powerwave is very listeneable with the TS-1's. That is not the case with inexpensive solid state amps I've listened to on the Omegas: an Outlaw 1050 (dry sounding), an original Le Amp (bright and awful), my current NAD 752 (better than the others but still identifiably different). I removed each of those amps from the system and never went back. I heard an Odyssey amp once it clearly did not work well with the TS-1's either.

The point I am making is that for the price, this is a tremendous combination, and I could easily live with the sound. Is it the equal of a good tube amp? - not in my opinion. Not yet. I reserve the right to change that opinion as it breaks in and I spend more time with it.

Others have commented on the difference in sound across the Omega line in a different thread.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 12:29 am »

macconnection.com was awesome! Order placed Tuesday around noon, DHL delivery Thursday AM.

albee · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 12:32 am »

Can't find your comments in "square circle". Where is that?

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 12:34 am »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=8293&start=20

Louis O · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 02:49 am »

Hi Greg,

Many thanks for the for all the info about the Griffin Powerwave.
I'll be ordering one for myself to try. Can't wait to hear it.

Thanks,
Louis

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 03:56 am »

Louis,

If you are using a Windows XP machine be sure to check out the ASIO driver I mentioned. I think your speakers are revealing enough to make this worthwhile. I just posted more info here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=8285&start=10

If you use an Apple or an older version of Windows, never mind.

albee · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 04:18 am »

Well, I ordered a PW from MacConnection. Why do they have it in stock when Griffin is backordered? I cancelled my Griffin order and will get my PW Tues or Weds. Pretty awesome service--and, at a discount. Saved $12 over Griffin direct.

Now, I plan to use this puppy as a tripath amp via RCA's. Please tell me it will work that way.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 03:24 pm »

I plugged the Pwave into the RCA outs of my NAD 752 and RAM CD player front end last night. You have to set one of the little switches on the back to "THRU - ON".

Well, this solves that lack of power problem I had with USB. I could never get high volume from the amp - I had to crank all of the gain settings on Media Ceter to get a moderate level. I can only guess that the gain between the USB/DAC circuit and the Tripath chip is lacking. This thing is designed for nearfield desktop computer use after all.

This thing rocks now! I had no trouble playing at any level I personally could stand with music. I'm well past the "turn it all the way up" stage, but at VERY high levels the amp still sounded very good. I should note that I use a subwoofer crossed over at 80hz. Mid-bass was as good as I have heard from the TS-1's.

I have decided that the Pwave is clearly better in one area - detail retrieval. That is an easy one - I'm hearing things in familiar recordings that the AMC missed.

I would have to say that the soundstage is wider and deeper now, and the amp takes on more authority overall when driven via RCA. The presentation is a little different than the tube amp - more forward, less subtle. Notice I said different, not better or worse. It will take me time to decide which I prefer more. Sometimes different isjust different, too.

There is absolutely no brightness or other nastiness, as long as the recording is decent of course. The only negative (relative to USB and the tube amp) is that there is more noise now. I can hear it standing in front of the speakers, but not at my listening position.

I have been told that Tripath amps sound their best after a couple months of breakin, and should leave the amp on all of the time. Still, most of the deficiencies I noted earlier largely went away when I used the RCA inputs.

I am going to put the Pwave through it's paces with movie soundtracks tonight. I'll let you know how it does.

Zoe · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 05:38 pm »

What do I need to operate this device as an amplifier driving a signal coming out of my CD player. I guess this is another way of asking how do you control volume with it? I don't really want to run it out of my laptop, since I don't think my sound card is any good for quality music reproduction. Thanks for any help.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 05:44 pm »

You'll need a preamp, active or passive, if you want to drive it directly from a CD player. The Pwave has no volume control of it's own.

Here is a nice passive preamp for $250.
http://www.ciaudio.com/

If you have a laptop with a USB port, you won't be using your soundcard at all - the Pwave will be replacing it - so it's quality doesn't matter. My HP laptop doesn't have much of a soundcard either. I'd give it a try.

Zoe · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 06:30 pm »

Or how about a CD/DVD player that has one of those little volume control knobs (is that called a "pre-out"). That would work, right? I am attracted by the price of the Powerwave and don't want to have to throw money at it. But some CD players these days can be had for cheap. My laptop would work but as a transport, the laptop's player can't be all that good. Or am I making some bad conclusions? Thanks for your quick responses.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 09:06 pm »

A volume control on a CD/DVD player would do the trick. Not sure what sound quality you'll get though - that depends on the player.

As to the sound of the laptop transport, I haven't played around much comparing the sound of it to a stand-alone player. To be honest, there are only so many manufacturers of these transports, whether for computer or CD/DVD use, and I suspect most of them have the same origin. It's only when you get into the higher end audio stuff that you start to see better transports. I am avoiding the issue altogether though, by ripping the CD to the hard disk and then playing it from there. There are very high-end digital systems being built now around hard disk systems, and the reviews are very positive.

I'm only a recent convert to the idea that computers can be taken seriously as a high-end audio device. Check the the HTPC section of avs-forum if you want to learn more. It's a good resource for this topic.

albee · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Mar 2004, 02:32 am »

Thanks, Bwana, I can't wait to see what that little plastic box is going to do to my 92db Klipsch References. It should be interesting. So far, from what everyone has said, how does all that power come out of a tiny plastic box without much heat? (rhetorical question)

Have anyone tried to open the case and remove the light bulb yet?

JLM · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Mar 2004, 11:46 am »

Many volume controls on CD players only compress (reduce dynamic range). Hey, it's a cheap add-on. Good volume controls (just the "knob" itself can cost $100s). So whatya expect?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Mar 2004, 11:54 am »

Pretty soon I've gotta take my 2nd system apart to do some upgrades- while I've got it down I'll put the Pwave in and run it from the variable volume of my CD player for kix. I'm pretty curious to see how it will work. I really wish I had two of them to biamp my Bronze 3s...

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Mar 2004, 09:23 pm »

Well I finally got the Pwave to clip over the weekend. By accident, I had the 80HZ high-pass crossover turned off and was trying to figure out why the bass suddenly sounded so muddy on Patricia Barber's Modern Cool (the sub was still on!). During the most intense acoustic bass parts, when I fed the full-range signal at high volume to the Pwave it finally ran out of steam. Of course. the TS-1's were also experiencing some distress (cone excursion) at this point. Keep in mind my room is 14X30 with an alcove at one end, and I was playing it at high volume. I never normally run the speakers full-range at high volume levels for this reason.

Once I got the crossover back in the circuit (duh

) and tried some movie material, I once again gave in to the volume before the Pwave did. It had a great "jump factor" that works really well with movies. We watched "From Hell" (a Jack the Ripper flick), and my wife kept jumping during one effective sound effect they kept using - it was the sound of a metal carriage step being suddenly dropped down at scary moments. She was impressed. Otherwise the sound remained balanced and a pleasure to listen to.

At this point I am going to stop posting and will leave the Pwave in my system for a week or two full time. After that I'll give the AMC another shot and it's decision time. I received a set of the Dakiom devices to test on my tube amp. It will be interesting to see if tweaks that cost more than the Pwave itself can make my $800 tube amp sound more similar to it.

Interesting times.