audio myths

Rclark · « **on:** 12 Sep 2011, 10:26 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

Makes me very leery of upgrading anything componentwise until I get my room treated, made me realize that I don't need to be in any hurry to upgrade my Emotiva gear and focus more on getting the accoustics right first, if anything, and has made me realize I don't need to spend any money upgrading power cables and the like. Excellent video. Deals with how the brain perceives sounds and how the brain picks and chooses what to focus on and talks about products being advertized to us that are ridiculous and have no effect. The Demagnetizer caught me off guard as there was a thread here about demagnetizing having an effect and the product shown is even a Furutech.

I'll be much more careful from now on. I'm glad I haven't yet blown any money on these ancillary useless products.

neekomax · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Sep 2011, 11:19 pm »

Uh oh.

Shhhh... you're gonna upset all the people who can hear distortion and jitter at -100 db. They're very sensitive.

What matters (I think):

1. Speakers
2. Acoustics
3. Proper amplification (headroom)
4. Sh#t not being broken.
5. Not much else.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 12:36 am »

Of all the arts, music is the art more difficult to made and the hardest to be appreciated.
The number of variables to evaluate an audio equip or a recorded performance in AB test is much higher than the test of the newest LED TVs.

Also, there is the non simple fact that everyone seems to listen, think and understand music differently from each other.
And if you are a musician, you hear music in a different way, than if you are a musiclover or audiophile.

For the brain to process a TV picture is easy, but the same brain to process and evaluate a simple musical performance in a home room is relative and more laborious and requires an effort of memory and other details ...
This is the nature of music, and its requirements are bigger than film, ball sports or hunting ducks at dawn ...

Rclark · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 04:09 am »

I think honestly I might pause on buying gear for the moment (other than my scheduled MMG mod and perhaps a warpspeed) and go ahead and start room treatments. I think that's probably going to give me the next greatest thrill after having bought these MMG's.

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 04:33 am »

My experience has been that room treatments make the biggest bang for the buck difference.

I'd also view the conclusions of the audio myths a little differently, and use my perception bias to enhance my enjoyment of my system & music. I'm fine with hearing improvements that aren't "real", but have a tangible impact on what I actually hear.

Jim C

neekomax · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 04:59 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 13 Sep 2011, 04:09 am

I think honestly I might pause on buying gear for the moment (other than my scheduled MMG mod and perhaps a warpspeed) and go ahead and start room treatments. I think that's probably going to give me the next greatest thrill after having bought these MMG's.

Thing about treating your room... it seems like more of an intellectual challenge than simply plunking down some more cash for that new piece of gear. There's a lot to learn...

richidoo · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 05:03 am »

Improving acoustics is hard work and not instant gratification like new cables. But it offers the biggest potential improvement, because the untreated room is the largest source of distortion.

jtwrace · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 10:59 am »

Quote from: richidoo on 13 Sep 2011, 05:03 am

the biggest potential improvement, because the untreated room is the largest source of distortion.

+1

JohnR · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 11:04 am »

I think it's unfortunate that the interesting part of the presentation by JJ was not included. I don't think it's worth going on with it after he finishes, from what I saw there was nothing new or educational after that point.

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 11:09 am »

It also depends on your budget. Assuming you don't DIY for instance, having a system budget of $1000 is going to pretty much exclude doing much with the room. I like reminding folks that every speaker has 1 or 2 cabinets, the speaker cabinet (maybe) and the room. Designers and fans debate one cabinet type versus another until they're blue in the face and then spend $$$ throw them to the awfulist rooms.

When it comes to rooms, my 1st priority is proper geometry (at least adequately sized and of the correct proportions), my 2nd is speaker/listener setup. After that treatments are tweaks (as they should be). The image of 4 ears should be a lesson for those trying to fix crummy rooms with tons of treatments. The last step is adding EQ (amazing how much "sense" the sound makes when the frequency response is a flat line).

If you can't have a decent room, invest in headphones for your serious listening.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 02:00 pm »

Never under estimate the value of room treatments.

However, I really feel sorry for those guys that want to claim things like power cables make no different. That they make no difference is actually the myth.

Don't get too caught up in there rhetoric.

I'd love to have those guys over for some simple comparisons of the things they claim make no difference.

ebag4 · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 02:32 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 13 Sep 2011, 11:09 am

It also depends on your budget. Assuming you don't DIY for instance, having a system budget of $1000 is going to pretty much exclude doing much with the room. I like reminding folks that every speaker has 1 or 2 cabinets, the speaker cabinet (maybe) and the room. Designers and fans debate one cabinet type versus another until they're blue in the face and then spend $$$ throw them to the awfulist rooms.

When it comes to rooms, my 1st priority is proper geometry (at least adequately sized and of the correct proportions), my 2nd is speaker/listener setup. After that treatments are tweaks (as they should be). The image of 4 ears should be a lesson for those trying to fix crummy rooms with tons of treatments. The last step is adding EQ (amazing how much "sense" the sound makes when the frequency response is a flat line).

If you can't have a decent room, invest in headphones for your serious listening.

Jeff, you really need to quit telling people that don't have access to a "Golden Ratio" type room to go to headphones. You can get great sound in a "bad" room if you do a bit of work to get there.

I am in a 10.5'x12.5' room, I have large speakers (GR Research V1s) and sit nearfield (duhh). I have a number of DIY room treatments, diffusors, absorton, etc. I have done measurements and made adjustments based on those measurements. Frankly, I am getting the best sound I have ever heard from a stereo system. Granted I have not heard everything there is to hear but I know good and bad sound when I hear it and this system simply ROCKS!

A big part of the equation in my opinon is the OB bass. If you go with OB bass and have adjutments available I believe you can taylor the bass to fit your space. OB bass doesn't load a room like monopole bass does. With the servo subs of the V1s I have outstanding, articulate, non-boomy bass that reaches below 20Hz. Once I completed the measurements and made the required adjustments I sat down to listen, I was no longer listening in a small room, the walls melted away and I was listening to what the recording offered up.

So please, quit telling people to go to headphones. They will be missing out on what is possible with a good system and that would be a shame.

Best,
Ed

This is my space:

rollo · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 02:37 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 13 Sep 2011, 10:59 am

+1

+2

charles
SMA

gooberdude · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 02:51 pm »

If you go to GIK Acoustics website, at the bottom left of the main screen is a youtube video with similar results. It is simply music playing in the same room, untreated versus fully treated. Enlightening...

Devil Doc · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 06:09 pm »

I don't need the believers to feel sorry for me. Those that ignore science are doomed to waste a lot of money.

Doc

sts9fan · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: Devil Doc on 13 Sep 2011, 06:09 pm

I don't need the believers to feel sorry for me. Those that ignore science are doomed to waste a lot of money.

Doc

Or make a lot.

neekomax · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 06:22 pm »

You're blinding me with science.

Science!

AJinFLA · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 06:31 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 13 Sep 2011, 02:00 pm

However, I really feel sorry for those guys that want to claim things like power cables make no different. That they make no difference is actually the myth.

I'm with you on this Dan. I tried listening to my stereo without the power cables once and it made a huge difference.

Cheers,

AJ,

p.s. hey Dan, dbe tell you the good news?

AJinFLA · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 13 Sep 2011, 05:03 am

Improving acoustics is hard work and not instant gratification like new cables. But it offers the biggest potential improvement, because the untreated room is the largest source of distortion.

I'm going to treat my room at RMAF as extensively as I did at CapFest.

....With a nice pair of spherical wavefronts

cheers,

AJ

Danny Richie · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 06:39 pm »

Quote from: AJinFLA on 13 Sep 2011, 06:35 pm

I'm going to treat my room at RMAF as extensively as I did at CapFest.
....With a nice pair of spherical wavefronts

cheers,

AJ

You are going to RMAF? I can't wait to meet you.