AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: daveshear on 20 Jul 2020, 06:33 pm
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Hey All, First of all I wanted to say thanks to Sonic Joy for sharing his build which helped.
I thought this might help those of you that don't have a woodworking shop. I did have a local guy cut the wood for me. I used glue and finishing screws to secure all the panels instead of clamps. I did have them painted by a Car Paint company in a "Pearl White"
I'll get the final build up in a couple of weeks once I cut the No-Rez and Complete the Crossovers
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212097)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212098)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212099)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212101)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212102)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212104)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212105)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212106)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212107)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212108)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212109)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212110)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212111)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212112)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212113)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212114)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212116)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212117)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212118)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212119)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212120)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212121)
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very nice!
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These are looking gorgeous so far!
I'm excited to hear your thoughts once their finished!
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Better
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212120&size=huge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212121&size=huge)
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Regarding screws, do you recommend any specific material?
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Here are the screws. Not sure if I got them from Lowes or Home Depot?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212149)
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Looking really nice with that automotive paint finish! Excited to hear your listening impressions once you have them all assembled.
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Wow, super nice!
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Great work! Love the look of high gloss white. Those should look super when fully assembled.
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Very nice work on the build. They look great.
I did have them painted by a Car Paint company in a "Pearl White"
Did you use a wood filler on the screw holes and seams? What additional prep work did you have to do on the cabinets prior to the automotive paint job?
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Love the white finish. Sure they look amazing in person. Hope they sound as good!
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Hey All, First of all I wanted to say thanks to Sonic Joy for sharing his build which helped.
Hi Daveshear, Glad you found my build thread helpful.
Ya those are looking great! Good job. There's nothing wrong with using screws it's just that it can be hard to keep them from showing through the finish.
One detail I noticed that got overlooked is rounding over the inside edges of the internal brace. That is noted in the instructions. You can still do that after the fact. Get some coarse sand paper say 60 or 80 grit and round it over by hand. Doesn't have to be pretty you just don't want sharp edges.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204789)
Again great job! :thumb:
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CurtisIIX: I used wood filler and sanded several times
Sonicjoy is right. You need to pay special attention to the screw holes. I counter sunk them first. Then I did a quick sanding after the screws were in to knock off the hanging wood. I then filled them and the cracks with wood filler, sanded. I actually did that process three times because there were some air voids in the wood filler. It took no time at all though. The longest part is waiting for the wood filler to dry.
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Very nice work on the build. They look great.
Did you use a wood filler on the screw holes and seams? What additional prep work did you have to do on the cabinets prior to the automotive paint job?
CurtisIIX: I used wood filler and sanded several times
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Hi Daveshear, Glad you found my build thread helpful.
Ya those are looking great! Good job. There's nothing wrong with using screws it's just that it can be hard to keep them from showing through the finish.
One detail I noticed that got overlooked is rounding over the inside edges of the internal brace. That is noted in the instructions. You can still do that after the fact. Get some coarse sand paper say 60 or 80 grit and round it over by hand. Doesn't have to be pretty you just don't want sharp edges.
Sonicjoy is right. You need to pay special attention to the screw holes. I counter sunk them first. Then I did a quick sanding after the screws were in to knock off the hanging wood. I then filled them and the cracks with wood filler, sanded. I actually did that process three times because there were some air voids in the wood filler. It took no time at all though. The longest part is waiting for the wood filler to dry.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204789)
Again great job! :thumb:
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By the way: We live on a lake and we are changing our decor to a coastal look. That is why the speakers are painted white. Planing for the future!
Also, I ended up getting the Spatial Sapphire M3's in white as well. (I was waiting for Danny to get some NEO 10's developed which will take some time, so I went with the Sapphire's) The speaker kit I really want from Danny will be the Super 7's with the NEO 10's.
Here is a photo of both speakers side by side
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212169)
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I'm really curious to hear how these 2 speakers compare.
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I'm really curious to hear how these 2 speakers compare.
Ditto!
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I'm really curious to hear how these 2 speakers compare.
Definitely! Place your bets, fellas.
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Definitely! Place your bets, fellas.
I'd wager that the Studios will win in the mids & highs, esp in speed & detail. The Sapphires will likely win in bass, body & soundstage, thanks to it's larger drivers, & OB design. But im looking forward to the results either way! :thumb:
Tho iirc they're kind of opposites? Studios have the OB planar tweeter, sealed woofer, and the Sapphire have sealed tweeter OB Mid/bass woofers.
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Ron did a bit on the Sapphires. Although he did not directly compare the Studio against the Sapphires, he has experience with both and maybe he can chime in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbH9wWr-Xrw&t=897s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbH9wWr-Xrw&t=897s)
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IMO, Danny and Clayton are the 2 best speaker designers working today.
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Tyson I'm glad you think so! My Emerald Physics EP 2.7"s are the last speaker that Clayton Shaw designed for EP before starting Spatial Audio. Then they were taken to GR Research and Danny measured tested and then built new crossovers using better parts. So I have kind of the best of both designers in one speaker. And they are incredible speakers. They make me smile every time I listen to them. :thumb:
:beer:
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I think I need to build these. Thanks for all the info and pictures!
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I think Danny should offer a kit with globally sourced (to keep the price low) fully assembled and finished cabinets.
Who is in?
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I think Danny should offer a kit with globally sourced (to keep the price low) fully assembled and finished cabinets.
Who is in?
Good luck with that. The way you keep the price as low as possible with DIY is the DIY part. Some people have made flatpacks to make the process easier and others will build complete speakers on a case by case basis. Each level increases the cost. The more work somebody else does for you, the more it will cost.
At scale, what you are talking about is a commercial speaker. At that point, there are all the costs involved in operating a business and the cost will go to commercial levels. That means take the cost of the kit, add the cost of the cabinet and multiply it by at least five. Of course, that will put Danny's high quality speakers out of reach for most folks.
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Good luck with that. The way you keep the price as low as possible with DIY is the DIY part. Some people have made flatpacks to make the process easier and others will build complete speakers on a case by case basis. Each level increases the cost. The more work somebody else does for you, the more it will cost.
At scale, what you are talking about is a commercial speaker. At that point, there are all the costs involved in operating a business and the cost will go to commercial levels. That means take the cost of the kit, add the cost of the cabinet and multiply it by at least five. Of course, that will put Danny's high quality speakers out of reach for most folks.
I disagree. I think a pair of globally sourced cabinets is going to cost less than the cost of materials and tools I need to buy to assemble and finish a pair of cabinets.
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There is not enough demand. These are low volume products. To get the kind of savings you are talking about they would have to be ordered in large quantities and then Danny would need larger warehouse space to store all the different models in a range of colors and then we are no longer in the DIY market. All the extra cost he would incur would drive his prices up. Plus "globally sourced" usually means "made in China". No thanks. There are plenty of speakers on the market that are made that way.
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I disagree. I think a pair of globally sourced cabinets is going to cost less than the cost of materials and tools I need to buy to assemble and finish a pair of cabinets.
Sure, but that probably means this isn't quite the hobby for you?, DIY is all about enjoying the process of having parts and tools, and ending with a finished speaker.
In reality, It's only "cheaper" when products can be produced in mass volumes. (think 5-10 thousand units per run etc) In many cases that also means massive up-front costs for testing/development of a small first runs, then the final run, all the while, shipping costs, promotion/advertising costs, labor costs, etc. etc. all add up quickly, and most business will likely fail under this pressure unless there is large, and continuous demand.
DIY is meant to cut all of those costs and risks put of the loop, allowing you the opportunity to build a $6000 speaker for $1000-2000. Or a $1000 speaker for $400-500. Plus you get to learn new skills and tools that you can use for other projects down the line!
DIY is an adventure & its all about exploring the possibilities of what might come next!
Why pay an artist $2000 for a painting, when you can just go to the store and buy a poster for $2? Sure, the mass produced poster was cheap, but it probably also was made on cheap paper, using cheap labor, & there's 100,000 copies just like it.
But when you pay an artist directly, it costs a lot more, but you get something unique & special.
While DIY kits fall somewhere in the middle, the parts and design are already layed out, but you get to decide how the final product looks, be it a simple coat of Duratex, stained veneer, or even custom automotive style paint.
Its a hobby that's all about having fun, learning new skills, and getting to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
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The only tools you really need to make a set of box speakers are a track saw or circular saw (preferably the former), a router, a drill/driver, and some cheap clamps. These are tools most homeowners should have in their garage anyway to tackle typical projects and repairs.
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Confirmed by Danny that this is correct
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212526)
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With the caveat of being in the process of building a set of these crossovers for my own new NX Studio build, they look correct based on my understanding of the wiring diagram.
SonicJoy has a good build thread with crossover pics:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168181.60
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168181.200
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delete
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Would you share how much the paint job set you back?
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Would you share how much the paint job set you back?
Good Afternoon. I paid $150. My painter had never done speakers so he wanted to make sure he covered it. It is a three step process and has a kind of sparkle in the paint. Can look a little different looking at it at different angles.
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Good Afternoon. I paid $150. My painter had never done speakers so he wanted to make sure he covered it. It is a three step process and has a kind of sparkle in the paint. Can look a little different looking at it at different angles.
That's a steal. Getting an automotive paint job on a pair of speakers the size of the Studio Monitor at a body shop around here would be $400-$500.
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Here is the crossover with labels for the wiring. Danny confirmed this is good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212606)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212598)
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Man that paint looks good! :thumb:
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Man that paint looks good! :thumb:
Thanks! I'm happy with it.
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It's almost a shame to cover it with norez.
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Why is there no by-pass cap on the woofer cap?
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Why is there no by-pass cap on the woofer cap?
Probably because bypass caps are intended for high frequencies, and putting a highpass filter on the woofer circuit wouldn't do anything since the Inductor removes high frequencies. And the capacitor connects directly to ground, so it would just be a waste of money.
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It's almost a shame to cover it with norez.
Tyson, yeah thats my thoughts exactly. Every time I take a look at the speakers I think I don't want to put a grill cover up top but then I realize I have to install the norez in there.
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Tube Connectors: Danny sent me this for those who just want to confirm installation technique.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212614)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212613)
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
Also, drill bit size for the tube connector installed into the cabinet: 7/16", It is a common drill bit size.
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Thanks Hobbsmeerkat, I thought it was something like that.
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Here is the crossover with labels for the wiring. Danny confirmed this is good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212606)
This is awesome, thank you!
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When Building the Crossover you need to be concerned about orientation of the coils.
Danny sent this:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212615)
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@daveshear
In your picture of your crossover, what gets connected to the positive input in the upper left?
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@daveshear
In your picture of your crossover, what gets connected to the positive input in the upper left?
Tomy2Tone, the "Inputs" are connected to your "Tube Connectors" which are connected to your amplifier
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212598&size=huge)
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Tomy2Tone, the "Inputs" are connected to your "Tube Connectors" which are connected to your amplifier
I see, so the positive input in upper left is for the positive speaker binding post and lower right is for negative speaker binding post along with tweeter negative and woofer positive. Thanks!
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I see, so the positive input in upper left is for the positive speaker binding post and lower right is for negative speaker binding post along with tweeter negative and woofer positive. Thanks!
Not quite, the input in the upper left feeds both the woofer and tweeter circuit, which breaks out to independent positives for each driver. Then the negative leads from the drivers connect to the negative ends of both the Woofer and tweeter circuit, and continues down to the tube connector or binding post.
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Not quite, the input in the upper left feeds both the woofer and tweeter circuit, which breaks out to independent positives for each driver. Then the negative leads from the drivers connect to the negative ends of both the Woofer and tweeter circuit, and continues down to the tube connector or binding post.
So the upper left should be labeled tube connector/binding post positive input along with woofer positive and tweeter positive?
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So the upper left should be labeled tube connector/binding post positive input along with woofer positive and tweeter positive?
Tomy2Tone, Danny CONFIRMED my labeling. I think you are getting confused by the last comment.
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So the upper left should be labeled tube connector/binding post positive input along with woofer positive and tweeter positive?
No, the upper left connection is the input from the tube connection, which feeds the signal to both halves of the crossover circuit.
Upper right is the crossover output to the tweeter.
Bottom center between the large inductor & bottom sonic cap is the output to the woofer. Then the two connections in the lower right are connected to the negative leads of both drivers and then to the negative/return tube connector.
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Hopefully this will make more sense :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212623&size=large)
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@Hobbsmeerkat
Thanks, I think that’s what I was trying to say originally. Then I probably misunderstood what you were trying to explain.
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You're welcome, glad I was able to better clarify my explanation :P
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The schematic I got with my sudio-kit shows the positive feed line from the tube connection connected to the negative terminal on the tweeter and the positive terminal on the woofer; with the two drivers appearing out of phase, if I were an electrical engineer and not a chemist I'd probably understand why there is phase shift though the network. The edited picture by Hobbsmeerkat seems to suggest the drivers are in phase where Tomy2Tone's original text in white shows the phase matching the included wiring schematic. Would be good to get clarity on phasing...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212652)
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Yeah i noticed that as well & its seemed odd to me that the polarities would be reversed in that manner, and im not sure if its due to the nature of the driver itself, or because its placed in a waveguide more closely aligned with the voice coil rather than the baffle?
Danny would have to explain the reasons for that.
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Looking at my BG neo 3, I think their terminals are backwards compared to most drivers. So maybe that's why?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212164&size=large)
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Very impressive.
It looks like you glued and screwed them, correct?
I am building a pair of X-LS speakers and am also not a woodworker. I was lookinging at using clamps or possible masking tape, but had not thought of using screws. What did you hide the screws with?
Thanks
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This is a beautiful build so far. Can't wait to see it all come together. These speakers are primarily why I've joined the forum. Everyone's input and their step by step builds like yours are pure gold to me. I also plan on building a diy 2-channel amp to power these beauties. But that will be later. For now, I can retrace you're hard work and learn a bit more before placing my own order. Just curious, How many hours of work have these speakers taken so far?
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The tweeter has a polarity flip in this design. But acoustically they are in phase.
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Very impressive.
It looks like you glued and screwed them, correct?
I am building a pair of X-LS speakers and am also not a woodworker. I was lookinging at using clamps or possible masking tape, but had not thought of using screws. What did you hide the screws with?
Thanks
Hey Greg, Thanks so much. Yes, just Glued and Screwed. It is imperative though that you do at least three sanding and filling of the holes with wood filler. I would do 4 if possible just to make sure nothing shows through the paint. I did have one hole that I could tell was there through the paint. Thanks again!
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This is a beautiful build so far. Can't wait to see it all come together. These speakers are primarily why I've joined the forum. Everyone's input and their step by step builds like yours are pure gold to me. I also plan on building a diy 2-channel amp to power these beauties. But that will be later. For now, I can retrace you're hard work and learn a bit more before placing my own order. Just curious, How many hours of work have these speakers taken so far?
Unfortunately I did not record how much time it took. I worked on them every once in a while over about 3 weeks. I think the crossovers took the most time because I had to rework somethings.
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*********** CROSSOVER PLATE WIDTH **********
FYI: One of the mistakes I made was cutting the crossover plates too wide. They were perfect and fit through the woofer opening. Unfortunately once I got the No-Rez in, that narrowed the area where the crossover plate could fit into. I would highly recommend putting the No Rez in and see the width you can work with so you can get the crossovers in properly.
I had to take everything off the boards and re-cut them thinner. Luckily I was able to salvage the boards. Just a little more thought ahead of time would of prevented this.
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I did have them painted by a Car Paint company in a "Pearl White"
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212120)
I would love to know more about how you went about this process. Did you have to prime them yourself and then have them painted by the car shop? How did you select which color? Did you pick from the color options they had or did you bring your own paint?
I love this color.
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I assume the build is done (considering how old this thread is) but I never saw any listening impressions. Maybe they are in another thread somewhere?