[MikeK123]

I've got an Antelope Gold DAC. It's a 24/192, about 7 years old. Seems OK. But I'm wondering if the technology has improved so much that I'd truly hear a difference were I to upgrade to something like Digital Amplifier Company's " Cherry DAC DAC-2 HS" (a 32/192k). I guess I'm skeptical as to just how much a newer DAC might add to the sound quality... over an older... but competent DAC. Any thoughts?

[audioengr]

The right DAC can make a huge difference.  Here are some affordable DACs I would consider:

1) Metrum Acoustics Pavane or with volume is a good choice
2) TotalDAC
3) Denafripps Terminator
4) Aqua
5) Chord Dave

The biggest unknown is the input interface.  Some of these will have poor USB interfaces, but otherwise be good DACs.

If you are using S/PDIF from a converter or a CD transport, then it's important to get a DAC without reclocking on the S/PDIF input so you can add a good reclocker externally.  Most internal reclockers are not very good IME.  The Metrum is a good choice for this.

Another thing to consider is to just improve the digital source and use your Antelope DAC.  Jitter is the #1 problem, but the DAC digital filtering is #2.  You can do this by reclocking your current digital source, or add an external low-jitter USB or Ethernet converter if you are driving from a MAc or PC.  The simplest way to great sound quality is Ethernet, not USB.

Steve N.

[Wind Chaser]

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138311.160

[MikeK123]

AudioEngr,  thanks for the feedback.

I stream off a NAS via Ethernet, using Roon, to a Bryston BDP-2 streamer. So, I'm not sure what you mean regarding reclocking externally. Is that a device that sits between the streamer and the DAC?  I'm under the impression the Antelope DAC has an unusually good clock in it... I think is was considered cutting-edge 7 years ago. If it was 'good' then, would it still be considered good now (relative to the DAC's you suggested)? Would a an upgrade make a noticeable difference?

[mresseguie]

Hi, Mike.

Before I offer ideas on DACs, could you do me a favor and describe what sort of music you listen to? I do not mean Rock, Country, or Classical; I mean CD quality/PCM, DSD, MQA, etc. The Antelope is capable of playing up to 192, but do you even play files that are hi-res, or do you mostly play CD quality?

Then, tell me a little about your Antelope DAC. I have read references to it, but I have never heard one. What technology is involved? Also, what is your budget? Do you want a SS or tube DAC (assuming you want to upgrade)?

Regards,

Michael

[whell]

FWIW, I own a Zodiac.  That line was pretty advanced and pricey for their time.  I’ll be watching this thread for other Zodiac owners to chime in.  But with the passing years the advances in digital signal processing have been modest.   I would probably look elsewhere if I was hunting for the weak link in my system.

EDIT - my budget isn’t what it used to be, but this might be a cheap upgrade for a Zodiac owner.  One of these days I’ll need to try it.

https://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies/otherpowersupplies/teddyzodiac.html

[Freo-1]

The best standalone DAC I've come across is a Benchmark DAC-3.   If you can audition one and compare it to your current DAC, rest assured, you will hear a difference.

[MikeK123]

MrEssenguie,
My music is mostly 92k, though I think I have 100 or more albums that are 192k, maybe even higher. I purchased 2gB from a guy. I'm sorry to say I don't know the specs on my Antelope Gold DAC well but it's got the Voltikus power supply, etc. As for my upgrade budget... I find if I'm convinced of something's value the cost becomes somewhat secondary. I know that's vague. But, that disposition helps me avoid skimping. 

[audioengr]

AudioEngr,  thanks for the feedback.

I stream off a NAS via Ethernet, using Roon, to a Bryston BDP-2 streamer. So, I'm not sure what you mean regarding reclocking externally. Is that a device that sits between the streamer and the DAC?  I'm under the impression the Antelope DAC has an unusually good clock in it... I think is was considered cutting-edge 7 years ago. If it was 'good' then, would it still be considered good now (relative to the DAC's you suggested)? Would a an upgrade make a noticeable difference?

If you are using USB to the DAC, then I highly recommend a SOtM tx-UltraUSB reclocker.  If you are using S/PDIF coax, then the Synchro-Mesh reclocker.  These both insert in-line with the respective cables.

Clocks have improved radically over the last 5 years, but it's more than just the oscillator that makes the jitter low.  It's the DAC interface design.

Steve N.

[mresseguie]

MrEssenguie,
My music is mostly 92k, though I think I have 100 or more albums that are 192k, maybe even higher. I purchased 2gB from a guy. I'm sorry to say I don't know the specs on my Antelope Gold DAC well but it's got the Voltikus power supply, etc. As for my upgrade budget... I find if I'm convinced of something's value the cost becomes somewhat secondary. I know that's vague. But, that disposition helps me avoid skimping. 

Thank you, Mike,

As my newest DAC is limited to no more than 96k, I won't suggest it for your consideration. If I weren't necessarily concerned about budget, my first suggestion would be to give a Lampizator Atlantic a serious listen. It is <very> expensive, but it sounds wonderful and it can handle hi-res and DSD music. I've got a buddy in the Seattle area who owns one and I've heard it in his system and mine. I very nearly bought a used Atlantic. My next suggestion is to talk to Alvin at Vinshine Audio (in Singapore) about auditioning a Denafrips Terminator. [AC member, Jriggy, is selling his in our trading post right now.] This is another DAC that I very nearly bought for myself. 

Approximately 3 years ago, I thought I wanted a DSD capable DAC because that's where all the progress was (or so I thought). With that idea in mind, I bought a Gustard X20u DAC from China. It was much better than my old DacMagic Plus, but it wasn't particularly warm sounding. About a year later, I 'discovered' R2R DACs and DACs designed around the old TDA1543 chip....and I fell in love.  My newest DAC is a SW1X NOS DAC III STD designed around the TDA1541 chip. I can't imagine not having it in my system - ever! It does everything right for me in my system. Alas, it maxes out at 96k, so it doesn't really fit your needs.

I have great respect for Freo-1's equipment opinions, so I would give the Benchmark DAC-3 a try. I have not heard it, so I have no opinion about it myself. I would also suggest auditioning the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC. I heard it a few months ago in an incredible system in Taiwan. Unfortunately, all the components in that system were new to me - along with much of the music that was played - so I can't tell you the impact the DAC had on my experience.

I'm a bit of a dinosaur because nearly all the music I listen to is Redbook CD quality. My DAC III excels at CD quality music.

As much as possible, take your time and audition as many DACs as possible before you plunk thousands of dollars down for a new DAC. Make sure it makes the music you love to listen to. It's so easy in this hobby to buy a component that you think is 'it' only to realize a few months later that it's not actually what you want in your system.

Enjoy your journey. Take your time, and have fun!

Michael

[A_shah]

Thank you, Mike,

As my newest DAC is limited to no more than 96k, I won't suggest it for your consideration. If I weren't necessarily concerned about budget, my first suggestion would be to give a Lampizator Atlantic a serious listen. It is <very> expensive, but it sounds wonderful and it can handle hi-res and DSD music. I've got a buddy in the Seattle area who owns one and I've heard it in his system and mine. I very nearly bought a used Atlantic. My next suggestion is to talk to Alvin at Vinshine Audio (in Singapore) about auditioning a Denafrips Terminator. [AC member, Jriggy, is selling his in our trading post right now.] This is another DAC that I very nearly bought for myself. 

Approximately 3 years ago, I thought I wanted a DSD capable DAC because that's where all the progress was (or so I thought). With that idea in mind, I bought a Gustard X20u DAC from China. It was much better than my old DacMagic Plus, but it wasn't particularly warm sounding. About a year later, I 'discovered' R2R DACs and DACs designed around the old TDA1543 chip....and I fell in love.  My newest DAC is a SW1X NOS DAC III STD designed around the TDA1541 chip. I can't imagine not having it in my system - ever! It does everything right for me in my system. Alas, it maxes out at 96k, so it doesn't really fit your needs.

I have great respect for Freo-1's equipment opinions, so I would give the Benchmark DAC-3 a try. I have not heard it, so I have no opinion about it myself. I would also suggest auditioning the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC. I heard it a few months ago in an incredible system in Taiwan. Unfortunately, all the components in that system were new to me - along with much of the music that was played - so I can't tell you the impact the DAC had on my experience.

I'm a bit of a dinosaur because nearly all the music I listen to is Redbook CD quality. My DAC III excels at CD quality music.

As much as possible, take your time and audition as many DACs as possible before you plunk thousands of dollars down for a new DAC. Make sure it makes the music you love to listen to. It's so easy in this hobby to buy a component that you think is 'it' only to realize a few months later that it's not actually what you want in your system.

Enjoy your journey. Take your time, and have fun!

Michael

Michael
Are you telling me  the nearly 6K SW1X NOS DAC STD does not play DSD or hi-rez music(192K) ? man you just broke my heart !   
As strange as it may sound I have been debating wither to spend $ 750 bucks on upgrading my Schiit  Gungnir delta Sigma DAC to R&R DAC ( used with my desk top HP amplifier )or just put that money towards getting  a new DAC ? I did upgrade my PS Audio Directstream DAC well if you call putting in audio magic  ultimate Beewax fuses upgrade ! courtesy  J.  "Ketcham" who got me hell of a deal on those fuses   the AM fuses did make a huge difference in my QS mono's !  to my surprise .!!!    By the way just love the new  mod's made  to the DS-2 , you should definitely go for it !

Asghar

[mresseguie]

Somewhat OT (Off Topic)

Michael
Are you telling me  the nearly 6K SW1X NOS DAC STD does not play DSD or hi-rez music(192K) ? man you just broke my heart !   
As strange as it may sound I have been debating wither to spend $ 750 bucks on upgrading my Schiit  Gungnir delta Sigma DAC to R&R DAC ( used with my desk top HP amplifier )or just put that money towards getting  a new DAC ? I did upgrade my PS Audio Directstream DAC well if you call putting in audio magic  ultimate Beewax fuses upgrade ! courtesy  J.  "Ketcham" who got me hell of a deal on those fuses   the AM fuses did make a huge difference in my QS mono's !  to my surprise .!!!    By the way just love the new  mod's made  to the DS-2 , you should definitely go for it !

Asghar

Hi, Ashgar.

I'm afraid it's true. My spiffy new DAC maxes out at 96k.  I'll send you a box of Kleenex.  However, the $5800 price is only if you are in the UK/EU because of the VAT. It's 'just' $4800 outside of the EU. My second best DAC, the dB Audiolabs Tranquility SE is supposed to play up to 192k if my memory is correct. I forgot to mention it to MikeK. [I'm unsure if Eric is still selling them though.] Mine is sitting on the floor beside my system awaiting the day I finally decide to compare it to my SW1X DAC. Eventually, it'll go into a secondary system, but I'll need a SS preamp to pair with it.

I'm putting off the D Sachs Model 2 upgrade until just before I take a short vacation with my wife - sometime this summer. I really do not want to go without it while I'm home. Perhaps, I'll even try the Audio Magic fuses before too long.

[JLM]

I find the quality of the original performance and recording techniques make much more difference than the digital format being used.  And consider the source of hi-res files.  Nearly all are upscaled from analog or Redbook, so IMO are all but worthless.  And the ones that aren't are of music I'm personally not interested in.  So best to look for a DAC that excels at Redbook. 

I have a PS Audio DirectStream Junior that reportedly beats the Benchmark DAC3 and has ethernet input.  Street prices were only slightly higher, but unfortunately is no longer made (due to parts availability).  But the DirectStream Senior is even better, if you don't mind dropping $6k on one.

[witchdoctor]

If you are using USB to the DAC, then I highly recommend a SOtM tx-UltraUSB reclocker.  If you are using S/PDIF coax, then the Synchro-Mesh reclocker.  These both insert in-line with the respective cables.

Clocks have improved radically over the last 5 years, but it's more than just the oscillator that makes the jitter low.  It's the DAC interface design.

Steve N.

I have been really enjoying the products in the DTS Play-Fi ecosystem and just had that light bulb moment when I read your post. I connect all of them directly to the network via ethernet or wireless. Simple, inexpensive,convenient beyond words, and GREAT sound.

[Wind Chaser]

I find the quality of the original performance and recording techniques make much more difference than the digital format being used.

+1

And consider the source of hi-res files.  Nearly all are upscaled from analog or Redbook...

Good point, if it ain't recorded in a hi-res format  to begin with, why kid yourself?

As with digital photography, you can't wave a magic wand over a low-res file and some how expect hi-res file when the data doesn't exist. 

[andolink]

post withdrawn...................

[TomS]

The DirectStream Senoir is no longer made either, unfortunately.

Huh I believe the DirectStream DAC is still very much in production.

[andolink]

Right you are!

It's the Directsream Memory Player I was thinking about.

The PS Audio DSD is, IMO, worth it's asking price.  It raised my system's SQ level to an amazing degree.

[mmfuku]

Interesting thread.  Own the PS Audio Nuwave and wonder how the DSD compares?

[JackD]

The Directstream Sr. is available for far less than $6000 from multiple sources.  You pay list price only if you buy direct from PSA.