AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 30 Jul 2020, 11:17 pm
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Hi folks,
Have the prototype home this weekend for some tests so hope we will soon be able to move forward.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212557)
Check out the measurements!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212558)
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That's perdy. :inlove:
Those little lights on the Volume control is a nice feature if you listen in the dark. I have a white dot sticker on my SP2 but even with that I can't see where the volume is at when using the remote in the dark.
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Hi James, looking good. Some comments on cosmetics should you be interested.
- Fewer levels that the buttons are spread across might be easier on the eyes.
- Not digging the ring around the headphone output.
- I like the LEDs, but they can't be the bright kind like the BHA-1. Should be dim like B60.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212569)
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James, it might be worth re-stating what the BP-18 is for people seeing it first here; even now I couldn't tell you what thread it was first mentioned in.... so it is a streaming preamplifier and DAC all in one front end, using the Pi platform for streaming.... correct?
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James, it might be worth re-stating what the BP-18 is for people seeing it first here; even now I couldn't tell you what thread it was first mentioned in.... so it is a streaming preamplifier and DAC all in one front end, using the Pi platform for streaming.... correct?
Hi
Yes it is a combination of the BDA-3 DAC with the BP26 Pre and a Pi4 streamer.
james
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Hi James, looking good. Some comments on cosmetics should you be interested.
- Fewer levels that the buttons are spread across might be easier on the eyes.
- Not digging the ring around the headphone output.
- I like the LEDs, but they can't be the bright kind like the BHA-1. Should be dim like B60.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212569)
Hi,
You can adjust the brightness of the display and the LED's.
james
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I think it looks great. I like the silver finish and the LEDs, especially for the volume.
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Nooooooo. I was just looking at the 17 :nono:
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Nooooooo. I was just looking at the 17 :nono:
HI
The 17 stays in the line as well. Depends on what feature set you want.
james
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Hi James!
This is an exciting new product!
Can you please give us more information on the inputs - how many digital and analog ones and what type?
A photo of the rear panel would be much appreciated.
Also, being based on the BP-26, I assume the volume control is fully analog, correct?
One more other thing, do you have a an estimated retail price yet?
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi James!
This is an exciting new product!
Can you please give us more information on the inputs - how many digital and analog ones and what type?
A photo of the rear panel would be much appreciated.
Also, being based on the BP-26, I assume the volume control is fully analog, correct?
One more other thing, do you have a an estimated retail price yet?
Cheers,
Antun
I will try and take a pic of the back of the unit I have.
The volume is an analog resistor ladder controlled digitally.
No pricing yet but should have something soon.
One new feature over the BP26 is the BP18 runs fully balanced from input to output.
james
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Good to see a new preamp in the works. :thumb:
I would suggest changing the volume indicator LED color to green, just so everything else matches. An internal jumper to toggle between blue and green LEDs would be nice. Overall, very nice to see thet addition of a volume indication; it's very similar to what Audio Research did.
Also, I would suggest dropping the display. I recently had a piece of gear (~ $2,500 USD) from another high-end manufacture, and the display did not age well. When your scrolled through the inputs, there were variations in brightness, that ranged between entire letters to some random pixels if that makes sense. Maybe bring over the LEDs from the BDA2 and 3 to indicate lock, sample rate, etc.? With that said, there would be even more lights on the front, so it's good to see there's a dimming option. Adding the ability to have the unit go totally dark expect for the power LED would be great. I have always liked the minimal lighting on my Bryston gear - the BDP series needs a display so that's okay.
Lastly, I agree that the headphone jack would be better minus the ring.
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Good to see a new preamp in the works. :thumb:
I would suggest changing the volume indicator LED color to green, just so everything else matches. An internal jumper to toggle between blue and green LEDs would be nice. Overall, very nice to see thet addition of a volume indication; it's very similar to what Audio Research did.
Also, I would suggest dropping the display. I recently had a piece of gear (~ $2,500 USD) from another high-end manufacture, and the display did not age well. When your scrolled through the inputs, there were variations in brightness, that ranged between entire letters to some random pixels if that makes sense. Maybe bring over the LEDs from the BDA2 and 3 to indicate lock, sample rate, etc.? With that said, there would be even more lights on the front, so it's good to see there's a dimming option. Adding the ability to have the unit go totally dark expect for the power LED would be great. I have always liked the minimal lighting on my Bryston gear - the BDP series needs a display so that's okay.
Lastly, I agree that the headphone jack would be better minus the ring.
Hi
Yes the display is very expensive but we researched it a lot and this one should last a very long time. The BP18 has a multitude of features so the display is really necessary. You can turn it down in brightness level or turn it completely off if you wish and you can also turn the LED's off or down in intensity as well.
james
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Hi
Yes the display is very expensive but we researched it a lot and this one should last a very long time. The BP18 has a multitude of features so the display is really necessary. You can turn it down in brightness level or turn it completely off if you wish and you can also turn the LED's off or down in intensity as well.
james
Excellent. Bryston thinks of everything. Knowing some people leave gear on 24/7 any concerns with displays dimming/failing 10+ years down the road?
A modular DAC section would also be a big win to future proof.
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Rear of my unit:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212610)
Modular Design
Digital inputs:
2 Toslink
2 Spdif
2 AES
1 USB
4 HDMI
1 Pi4
Analog Inputs:
2x RCA (1 can be phono)
2x XLR
Analog outputs:
2 Pair x XLR
Analog volume control, digitally controlled.
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Any network capabilities for internet? Wireless Wi-Fi?
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Any network capabilities for internet? Wireless Wi-Fi?
Hi
Yes 2 Ethernet connections - one for software updates and service and one for network attachment. I have mine hooked up to my NAS as well as a Thumbdrive on the Pi. Currently using my Ipad for control.
james
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...nice one, James! only the led around the volume knob are not my favourites...
however, does the 18 has a bypass?
thanks,
al.
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Guts
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212611)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212612)
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...no digital outs, correct??
al.
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...nice one, James! only the led around the volume knob are not my favourites...
however, does the 18 has a bypass?
thanks,
al.
Yes because it is software driven a Bypass and a Phase invert is available.
james
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...no digital outs, correct??
al.
Correct.
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Rear of my unit:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212610)
Modular Design
Digital inputs:
2 Toslink
2 Spdif
2 AES
1 USB
4 HDMI
1 Pi4
Analog Inputs:
2x RCA (1 can be phono)
2x XLR
Analog outputs:
2 Pair x XLR
Analog volume control, digitally controlled.
Excellent! Thank you James!
Will there be any possibility to have one of the XLR outputs fixed level to connect the BHA-1 headamp?
Cheers,
Antun
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Excellent! Thank you James!
Will there be any possibility to have one of the XLR outputs fixed level to connect the BHA-1 headamp?
Cheers,
Antun
No Sure. I assume it would be possible given different software.
james
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Deleted.
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No Sure. I assume it would be possible given different software.
james
This would be a key feature for a headphone enthusiast, especially since you're already making a very fine headphone amplifier.
Depending on the price of the BP-18, it could then serve as a fully integrated system that legitimately replaces the BDP, BDA and BP product stack which is quite extraordinary. This would be the 2-channel version of the SP3 you've talked about some years back.
Cheers,
Antun
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This would be a key feature for a headphone enthusiast, especially since you're already making a very fine headphone amplifier.
Depending on the price of the BP-18, it could then serve as a fully integrated system that legitimately replaces the BDP, BDA and BP product stack which is quite extraordinary. This would be the 2-channel version of the SP3 you've talked about some years back.
Cheers,
Antun
I forgot to mention the headphone section in the BP18 is a new design and it sounds amazing and will drive much more difficult load headphones now.
james
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Hi folks,
Have the prototype home this weekend for some tests so hope we will soon be able to move forward.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212557)
Check out the measurements!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212558)
This looks really great. :o 8)
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I forgot to mention the headphone section in the BP18 is a new design and it sounds amazing and will drive much more difficult load headphones now.
james
Hi James!
That's good news indeed! Any specs such as output impedance on that yet?
Procuts with this level of integration and excellence are really tempting.
Cheers,
Antun
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James, how flexible is the modularity? Is the analogue input section optional? Are there options to choose specific digital inputs? How about the Pi streamer? I could be perfectly happy with a simple version with just HDMI inputs and one set of XLR outputs, no streamer. What are the HDMI specs? Will it have the new 6th generation MDS HSR-41T HDCP 2.3, HDMI 2.0b board? Thanks, Al
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Looks great has my interest.
Now is it possible to have a bypass mode on this? So it would be active for stereo listening, then put into bypass for the Home Theater Receiver to take over the power amp.
If possible with Amp connected via XLR and bypass mode RCA? This is becoming a very popular feature request, many preamps are bringing this feature or adding it.
Thanks look forward to more details.
MQA for streaming? I have never heard MQA on a high quality DAC so wonder. (don't want to stir a hornets nest).
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Very interesting inside, how much space remains despite what sounds like a cram-fest when described. Should be good for airflow and heat dissipation.
As a refresher, what are the main limitations of the Pi streamer as compared to the full blown BDP3 architecture? I thought somehow there were max. tracks limits and others?
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Looks great has my interest.
Now is it possible to have a bypass mode on this? So it would be active for stereo listening, then put into bypass for the Home Theater Receiver to take over the power amp.
If possible with Amp connected via XLR and bypass mode RCA? This is becoming a very popular feature request, many preamps are bringing this feature or adding it.
Thanks look forward to more details.
MQA for streaming? I have never heard MQA on a high quality DAC so wonder. (don't want to stir a hornets nest).
Hi,
NO MQA - lots of reasons why not which I will not get into here but email me if you want our thoughts. jamestanner@bryston.com
james
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Very interesting inside, how much space remains despite what sounds like a cram-fest when described. Should be good for airflow and heat dissipation.
As a refresher, what are the main limitations of the Pi streamer as compared to the full blown BDP3 architecture? I thought somehow there were max. tracks limits and others?
Hi NorthMac
The BDP-3 still has much more computing power and speed for large libraries and download times as well as the option of an internal hard-drive.
james
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James, how flexible is the modularity? Is the analogue input section optional? Are there options to choose specific digital inputs? How about the Pi streamer? I could be perfectly happy with a simple version with just HDMI inputs and one set of XLR outputs, no streamer. What are the HDMI specs? Will it have the new 6th generation MDS HSR-41T HDCP 2.3, HDMI 2.0b board? Thanks, Al
Hi Al
At this point only the MM Phono stage is optional and yes it is truly modular as you can see from all the different boards in the internal picture.
james
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212629)
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Hi NorthMac
The BDP-3 still has much more computing power and speed for large libraries and download times as well as the option of an internal hard-drive.
james
Thanks James, and thanks too for the comment on MQA. Bryston's wisdom on this, from the early days, is part of the reason many of us trust Bryston.... and stay with the brand.
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This looks like it will be a pretty compelling product with flexibility that will be appreciated by many. I personally would have zero interest in the Pi unless its software is automonous from whatever crazed animal the main software will be so that the user can choose Volumio or whatever flavour of player they fancy. And if the Pi would be able pass native DSD... Lol.
This will seem nit-picky at best, but I personally view the LEDs around the volume control as 80's boom box cheese. I love the industrial no-nonsence look of Bryston gear. This, in my opinion, spoils that look.
I second the notion of the various LEDs being in two rows, not some offset into a third level.
Regarding HT bypass I can say the best implementation of this I've seen on a competitors P6 product is where their preamp defaulted to bypass mode when turned off. So the unit does not even have to be turned on for bypass to work. Of course if it was turned on then you had to select the HT Bypass input. This seems super smart to me. To be fair this was only when using the single ended input/outputs, not the balanced ones.
I think this will be another excellent Bryston product!
Cheers,
Robert
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This looks like it will be a pretty compelling product with flexibility that will be appreciated by many. I personally would have zero interest in the Pi unless its software is automonous from whatever crazed animal the main software will be so that the user can choose Volumio or whatever flavour of player they fancy.
Cheers,
Robert
Pi runs on MPD too, does it not? So I assumed that it could be operated using the same apps we use now in the BDP series players. The only other Bryston software I am aware of is the BryFi app which I believe is just for the portable BryFi units.
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Pi runs on MPD too, does it not? So I assumed that it could be operated using the same apps we use now in the BDP series players. The only other Bryston software I am aware of is the BryFi app which I believe is just for the portable BryFi units.
Correct any MPD software can run the Pi.
james
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Pi runs on MPD too, does it not? So I assumed that it could be operated using the same apps we use now in the BDP series players. The only other Bryston software I am aware of is the BryFi app which I believe is just for the portable BryFi units.
I was referring to the O/S on the Pi. Make that agnostic and it becomes compelling. Otherwise, meh, it's just an unused internal component sucking power - for me. I'm sure it will be a welcome feature for others.
To me the value of the new product is the combination of high quality DAC and analog preamp. Ideally, the Pi would be optional.
Cheers,
Robert
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This will seem nit-picky at best, but I personally view the LEDs around the volume control as 80's boom box cheese. I love the industrial no-nonsence look of Bryston gear. This, in my opinion, spoils that look.
...that‘s what i thought when i first saw the BP18.
al.
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Hi Folks,
I got some questions from one of our customers and thought I would post them here as well.
Hi James,
1. In your description of BP18 you mentioned 2X XLR analog outputs, are these individually buffered?
The XLR outputs are not individually buffered but the buffers have a very high drive capability.
2. You also mentioned that among digital inputs it has 1X Pi4, not sure what it stands for, does it mean that BP18 has all the inputs that a separate BDP-Pi has?
Built-in Raspberry Pi 4 for streaming
3. In regard to DSD, will the unit handle DSD natively when received over USB, and will it convert DSD to PCM when sourced from USB HD / Pi
The BP18 doesn’t convert DSD to PCM, It will handle native DSD from either HDMI, USB or Raspberry Pi
4. I see in photo one large toroidal transformer, are all the PSUs in the unit linear or there are some switching ones?
All the power supplies are linear except for a small switching supply for the stand-by circuit.
5. You mentioned it has one Ethernet for network attachment, in what capacity can it be used, will the unit be recognized as uPnP device on the network so that software players supporting uPnP can send data over Ethernet to it for rendering and conversion? And can you send both PCM and DSD over Ethernet, with DSD being converted natively?
The ethernet connection can be used as a uPnP device and DSD is processed natively.
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I will be grabbing BP18 as soon as it becomes available, this is the product I have been waiting for someone to make, it has all the capabilities of an ultimate digital source I seek.
It is not the first such product on the market but it seems to be the one that has been finally implemented correctly.
To being with, it employs modern 32bit DAC chips in balanced mode. IMO today’s modern chips from AKM, ESS approach performance levels of discrete DACs such as DCS.
Of course it is not the chip selection on its own that drives the performance but the overall implementation, and BP18 shows all signs of proper implementation.
In terms of conversion itself, there are independent reviews and measurements of BDA-3, it is safe to say that it can hardly get any better without costing significantly more, and to what point really considering the present level of performance and what you can squeeze out of available recordings.
It employs resistor ladder analog volume control and analog section capable of driving amplifiers directly, it is the analog section where many such DACs fail. IME removal of pre-amp device from the signal path regardless of how good it may be always results in significant improvement in transparency, provided the DAC has proper analog section.
Considering that BP18 supports uPnP, that DSD is converted natively regardless of being received over Ethernet or from locally attached disk, that it supports high resolution PCM and that the rendering is in such cases done within the unit, and is then sent over I2S (according to what I have seen, correct me if I am wrong), it eliminates all the issues with jitter and noise, it now depends mostly on internal clock and circuitry implementation.
Finally it employs beefy transformer with linear PSUs.
This is reasonably the present state of the art.
Unrelated, does anyone know how to include images into private messages?
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Hi James,
Any chance this will support a DSD Rate higher than 256 over USB?
Thanks....Mike
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Like to be able to see a volume control. Sounds like there is a dimmer and way to shut off
Looks like the Pi 4 is fully accessible from outside. Card reader is easy to access. Look into Sandisk Extreme flash cards very fast (gold and red) assuming reader used can support protocol.
I assume connection is internal using I²S protocol? As well as being accessible from outside? Be very interesting to hear a Pi 4b with low noise power by Bryston.
Would the analog inputs be accessible in Asio layer? I would love to record my albums.
Look into adding support for booting from USB instead of card reader for Pi...believe that's now doable would reduce taking cover off there are also companies that make card readers you can attach so card would be accessible from outside. Problem is ensuring nothing is writing to card (erases it).
Don't mind layout on front but would display info be accessible in web interface so if dimmed or off you could monitor from there? Pics are low res so hard to make out details on front.
Look into an Autodark feature so display and volume light up for 10 seconds when used then goes dark. I don't find the other smaller leds distracting but some might, believe you have covered that with off option. Could everything autodark or you choose which banks?
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Hi James,
Any chance this will support a DSD Rate higher than 256 over USB?
Thanks....Mike
Hi Mike
Not sure on that - I will ask. sample rates are overrated anyway - it's the original master and much of the research now supports that 44.1 and 16BIT is all that's required at playback and 96/24 at the recording end.
james
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My thoughts about the BP-18…
For context, I have the following as part of my main hifi, plus two other full systems and a few headphone-only setups…
Bryston BP-17
Bryston BDP-2
Bryston BOT-1
Bryston BHA-1
Bryston 7B3 (x2)
Bryston Middle-T (passive)
There are a couple of pieces that I’d like to add from the Bryston lineup, but the system performs very well as it is and gets a lot of use.
BP-18 aesthetics:
I’d appreciate the visual indication of volume, either through a single pinpoint LED on the volume knob, or with a ring of pinpoint LEDs around the volume knob. I have a Shanling A2.1 integrated amplifier that has the latter, and it’s quite successful. I’ve attached a poor phone-quality photo - it’s better looking in real life (no LED flare, etc.), as it’s functionally useful without being blinding at night (it’s in the bedroom.)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212693)
Having user-settable illumination levels, with the option for full-dark, and auto-dark after a defined interval would be great. It’d also be appreciated if the volume LED could optionally be left on (at a preferred illumination level) while the others were dimmed or off entirely. Probably separate illumination control of the volume LED(s) would be best.
The front panel of the BP-18 is very busy, and I’d prefer to see it cleaned up. I prefer a minimalistic aesthetic, while providing all the useful feedback a user needs. I’d like to see fewer rows of buttons & LEDs. Two rows, one for input selection, and one for other functions, grouped sensibly, to the right of the display, matched aesthetically to existing current gear (e.g. BP-17, BCD-3, BDA-3.) The display of sampling rate etc. could then be accommodated in the space to the left of the volume knob, using the “classic” layout as found on the BDA-3, optionally with smaller (pinpoint) LEDs. Choice of LED colour should respect existing Bryston conventions (ideally user selectable) and I’d prefer volume indication to use a distinctive colour - e.g. red for volume, with green for source/function indication.
I’m open to associating the mute button and power with the volume control, but not fully convinced. I’d need to see a revised layout, ideally with a higher quality photo to make a final assessment. It might make sense to have mute and bypass buttons/indicators be the ones associated with volume, and separate the power function. LEDs for mute & bypass (or power) might look better if they were beside the label (on the "outside" relative to the knob) and not between the label and the volume LEDs.
I don’t care for the detail around the headphone jack - there again I’d prefer a clean jack with minimal involvement of the front panel. I’d pair it with a visually similar IR sensor and pair them symmetrically below the display (cf the BP-17.)
I’d relocate the BP-18 PRE-AMPLIFIER silkscreen, as it’s awkward where it’s currently placed and initially looks to be associated with the headphone jack, but offset improperly. It might end up over the sampling rate LED group to the left of the volume knob.
BP-18 Functions & Implementation:
I think you’ve chosen an excellent combination of inputs, allowing you to leverage development for your other platforms (good engineering practice!) and maintain a high degree of versatility while offering the benefits of internal coupling (avoids interconnect costs and “issues”), and reduced cost due to the single chassis and power supply savings. I would prefer having more than a single USB input - can an external USB hub be used to allow multiple storage devices, without compromise?
Is there provision for internal storage - i.e. spinning HD or SSD?
I am slightly wary that the Pi may prove to be the limiting factor (in real or perceived terms), and it’d be great (if feasible) if the BP-18 could be offered with the equivalent of the BDA-3’s (or it’s successor’s) capabilities as an option. The rest of the BP-18 appears to be class-leading, and while the Pi allows for reasonable-cost implementation, it isn’t necessarily an ideal solution for large collections. I’m quite willing to be wrong about this though. ;)
The modularity is welcome, assuming it’s the basis for reasonable user selection of capabilities or meaningful upgrades.
The outputs being only XLR is a bit troubling, as it reduces perceived versatility. While it may be possible to adapt to RCA/unbalanced passively, the output level may be restrictive depending upon the amplifier(s) used. It shouldn’t be assumed that a Bryston amplifier will always follow, much as that might be the ideal case. Having one set of outputs at a user-selectable fixed/variable level would be appreciated. That allow for connection to a BHA-1 in order to accommodate “balanced” headphones, electrostatics, etc. I’m presuming the BHA-1 will still outperform the BP-18 headphone output (at least in power), though the comment about the BP-18 headphone drive quality is encouraging. Inclusion of a tape/processing loop is probably asking too much!
The inclusion of Bypass and Invert functions is an excellent choice - again considering versatility and marketability/perception.
The lack of a digital output is, perhaps, slightly unfortunate, and I presume it’s because there’s no ADC for the analogue inputs, as well as the quality of the inbuilt DAC that it’s deemed to be unnecessary. Perhaps a USB connection could allow for output from digital sources? Considering this is an analogue preamp with inbuilt DAC and streamer, this seems very minor to me.
Inclusion of WiFi & Bluetooth, even if it’s an external dongle (potentially preferable, due to upgradability to accommodate evolving standards) would be very worthwhile. WiFi & Bluetooth capability should allow for reception of signals (e.g. streamed from a phone or tablet) and transmission (to wireless headphones or speakers) using the latest quality WiFi & Bluetooth standards.
I’m curious about the perceived audio performance compared to the BP-26 and the BP-17. It’s been mentioned that the spatial presentation between those two is different, and they do have somewhat different character - we’re not quite at the “wire with gain” stage yet. How would you compare the BP-18? It being fully balanced throughout will be something of a selling point, though the actual impact on objective performance will depend on the implementation. There is a certain “camp” that elevates objective performance using the suite of traditional measurements above all else, and in amplifiers that often comes down to bringing noise and distortion down to almost immeasurably low levels, which is indicative of engineering effort, but may go beyond what’s actually meaningful when listening to music.
While I am tentatively in the group that believes that there’s limited benefit of digital replay at very high bitrates, and any benefit is typically substantially outweighed by the recording and mastering processes (which include aesthetic choices as well as technical concerns), the market does respond to the inclusion of very high bitrate playback as an indicator of quality, so it’s vital that any digital piece accommodates the perceived markers of quality. Note that I acknowledge the actual merit of recording and processing audio at higher bitrates in the professional realm, to avoid compromising the end result when released at “sensible” bitrates. I say this as someone that has extensive former experience recording professionally, as well as being an active consumer of recorded and live music.
On the whole, the BP-18 looks like an excellent addition to the lineup, and while I’m unlikely to purchase one, given that I’m already well down the road with quality separates and I need more analogue inputs (at least in my main system) I hope it entices more people to join the Bryston family, and enjoy the highest quality reproduction of music - which is presumably why we’re all here… ;)
Regards,
Syncytial.
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Hi Syncytial,
Wow - quite the post!.
Yes the cosmetics are pretty well set at this time so no plans for a change on that front.
I will try and get to most of your questions going forward.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212557)
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
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Hi Syncytial,
Wow - quite the post!.
Yes the cosmetics are pretty well set at this time so no plans for a change on that front.
I will try and get to most of your questions going forward.
james
James,
Thank you... my comments have been brewing ever since your initial post, and it does take a fair bit of effort and time (at least for me!) to ruminate upon such things and offer something constructive without going too far towards fantasy. The end goal has to be a practical, realizable, product with marketplace appeal that is as broad as possible while remaining true to the vision that informs the whole product line.
I am not at all surprised that the development process is as far along as it is, and I hope my comments, and those of others with constructive feedback, will help to inform discussion for future products. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to comment at an earlier stage of design, especially with respect to the user interface/cosmetics, perhaps with the aid of an engineering line drawing of the front panel concept, though I recognize there are potential pitfalls to exposing such deliberations, and you cannot design based on what's effectively an external committee (a distributed, virtual camel?)
Regards,
Syncytial.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212711)
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James,
Thank you... my comments have been brewing ever since your initial post, and it does take a fair bit of effort and time (at least for me!) to ruminate upon such things and offer something constructive without going too far towards fantasy. The end goal has to be a practical, realizable, product with marketplace appeal that is as broad as possible while remaining true to the vision that informs the whole product line.
I am not at all surprised that the development process is as far along as it is, and I hope my comments, and those of others with constructive feedback, will help to inform discussion for future products. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to comment at an earlier stage of design, especially with respect to the user interface/cosmetics, perhaps with the aid of an engineering line drawing of the front panel concept, though I recognize there are potential pitfalls to exposing such deliberations, and you cannot design based on what's effectively an external committee (a distributed, virtual camel?)
Regards,
Syncytial.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212711)
Hi
Recognize that front panel layout as well as internal positioning of each module has a lot to do with making sure the signal paths and grounding circuits as well as power supply shielding are optimized for low noise and low distortion performance.
james
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Hi
Recognize that front panel layout as well as internal positioning of each module has a lot to do with making sure the signal paths and grounding circuits as well as power supply shielding are optimized for low noise and low distortion performance.
james
James,
Yes, that's understood, especially in the context of sharing sub-assemblies between devices. That "practical" aspect to component design does constrain you in how the internal components are arranged and interconnected, which in turn is reflected in front and back panel layouts. Engineering for results trumps visual aesthetics, particularly if it's not a ground-up design from a blank page.
Regards,
Syncytial.
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...Inclusion of a tape/processing loop is probably asking too much...
Missing tape loop is the only thing keeping my BP-17 put when this comes out!
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James,
I posted this in the AudioCircle thread, but thought I'd send it to you as an email as well, largely to provide a higher resolution image as an attachment. I expect your development is far enough along that substantial modification is unlikely, but feedback is useless if it's not offered... ;)
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My thoughts about the BP-18…
For context, I have the following as part of my main hifi, plus two other full systems and a few headphone-only setups…
Bryston BP-17
Bryston BDP-2
Bryston BOT-1
Bryston BHA-1
Bryston 7B3 (x2)
Bryston Middle-T (passive)
There are a couple of pieces that I’d like to add from the Bryston lineup, but the system performs very well as it is and gets a lot of use.
Hi David – my answers below
BP-18 aesthetics:
I’d appreciate the visual indication of volume, either through a single pinpoint LED on the volume knob, or with a ring of pinpoint LEDs around the volume knob. I have a Shanling A2.1 integrated amplifier that has the latter, and it’s quite successful. I’ve attached a poor phone-quality photo - it’s better looking in real life (no LED flare, etc.), as it’s functionally useful without being blinding at night (it’s in the bedroom.)
Yes the BP18 has separate pin point LED’s surrounding the volume knob - so only one LED is illuminated at a time.
Having user-settable illumination levels, with the option for full-dark, and auto-dark after a defined interval would be great. It’d also be appreciated if the volume LED could optionally be left on (at a preferred illumination level) while the others were dimmed or off entirely. Probably separate illumination control of the volume LED(s) would be best.
Yes the LED’s and the Display can have their intensity controlled – from light up my room so I can take pictures at midnight to fully Dark.
The front panel of the BP-18 is very busy, and I’d prefer to see it cleaned up. I prefer a minimalistic aesthetic, while providing all the useful feedback a user needs. I’d like to see fewer rows of buttons & LEDs. Two rows, one for input selection, and one for other functions, grouped sensibly, to the right of the display, matched aesthetically to existing current gear (e.g. BP-17, BCD-3, BDA-3.) The display of sampling rate etc. could then be accommodated in the space to the left of the volume knob, using the “classic” layout as found on the BDA-3, optionally with smaller (pinpoint) LEDs. Choice of LED colour should respect existing Bryston conventions (ideally user selectable) and I’d prefer volume indication to use a distinctive colour - e.g. red for volume, with green for source/function indication.
I’m open to associating the mute button and power with the volume control, but not fully convinced. I’d need to see a revised layout, ideally with a higher quality photo to make a final assessment. It might make sense to have mute and bypass buttons/indicators be the ones associated with volume, and separate the power function. LEDs for mute & bypass (or power) might look better if they were beside the label (on the "outside" relative to the knob) and not between the label and the volume LEDs.
The cosmetics and button placement are really an outcome of the best placement of the internal components to optimize noise and distortion. Function before Form.
I don’t care for the detail around the headphone jack - there again I’d prefer a clean jack with minimal involvement of the front panel. I’d pair it with a visually similar IR sensor and pair them symmetrically below the display (cf the BP-17.)
The headphone jack is like it is because we are thinking about offering a Balanced XLR connector as well at some point and wanted the larger hole available on the front panel.
I’d relocate the BP-18 PRE-AMPLIFIER silkscreen, as it’s awkward where it’s currently placed and initially looks to be associated with the headphone jack, but offset improperly. It might end up over the sampling rate LED group to the left of the volume knob.
BP-18 Functions & Implementation:
I think you’ve chosen an excellent combination of inputs, allowing you to leverage development for your other platforms (good engineering practice!) and maintain a high degree of versatility while offering the benefits of internal coupling (avoids interconnect costs and “issues”), and reduced cost due to the single chassis and power supply savings. I would prefer having more than a single USB input - can an external USB hub be used to allow multiple storage devices, without compromise?
Not sure on that I will ask.
Is there provision for internal storage - i.e. spinning HD or SSD?
No space for that so you would use a Thumbdrive or rotary drive or better yet the Ethernet with a NAS.
I am slightly wary that the Pi may prove to be the limiting factor (in real or perceived terms), and it’d be great (if feasible) if the BP-18 could be offered with the equivalent of the BDA-3’s (or it’s successor’s) capabilities as an option. The rest of the BP-18 appears to be class-leading, and while the Pi allows for reasonable-cost implementation, it isn’t necessarily an ideal solution for large collections. I’m quite willing to be wrong about this though.
Yes the cost would increase drastically if we included the same digital capabilities of the BDP-3 and the way we have implemented the the Pi’s digital function I think customers will find excellent in performance.
The modularity is welcome, assuming it’s the basis for reasonable user selection of capabilities or meaningful upgrades.
Yes things change in digital annually so hopefully this approach gives us a leg up on these issues.
The outputs being only XLR is a bit troubling, as it reduces perceived versatility. While it may be possible to adapt to RCA/unbalanced passively, the output level may be restrictive depending upon the amplifier(s) used. It shouldn’t be assumed that a Bryston amplifier will always follow, much as that might be the ideal case. Having one set of outputs at a user-selectable fixed/variable level would be appreciated. That allow for connection to a BHA-1 in order to accommodate “balanced” headphones, electrostatics, etc. I’m presuming the BHA-1 will still outperform the BP-18 headphone output (at least in power), though the comment about the BP-18 headphone drive quality is encouraging. Inclusion of a tape/processing loop is probably asking too much!
Yes we looked at a single ended output connection but wanted to keep the BP18 fully Balanced from input to output so decided to allow the customer to use an adapter or a adapter cable (which we make) was the better option given that most customers at this level use Balanced lines. The headphone section in the BP-18 is much improved over the previous headphone sections in our other preamps. The measurements on the headphone output are exceptional but as you say not as powerful as the BHA separate headphone unit. I think we can supply a variable and a parallel output on the XLR outputs – I will check.
The inclusion of Bypass and Invert functions is an excellent choice - again considering versatility and marketability/perception.
Agreed but phase polarity is a bit of a guessing game.
The lack of a digital output is, perhaps, slightly unfortunate, and I presume it’s because there’s no ADC for the analogue inputs, as well as the quality of the inbuilt DAC that it’s deemed to be unnecessary. Perhaps a USB connection could allow for output from digital sources? Considering this is an analogue preamp with inbuilt DAC and streamer, this seems very minor to me.
We did not want an ADC in the analog circuit path.
Inclusion of WiFi & Bluetooth, even if it’s an external dongle (potentially preferable, due to upgradability to accommodate evolving standards) would be very worthwhile. WiFi & Bluetooth capability should allow for reception of signals (e.g. streamed from a phone or tablet) and transmission (to wireless headphones or speakers) using the latest quality WiFi & Bluetooth standards.
Yes there are numerous Bluetooth and WiFI dongles available that you could implement in the P1-4.
I’m curious about the perceived audio performance compared to the BP-26 and the BP-17. It’s been mentioned that the spatial presentation between those two is different, and they do have somewhat different character - we’re not quite at the “wire with gain” stage yet. How would you compare the BP-18? It being fully balanced throughout will be something of a selling point, though the actual impact on objective performance will depend on the implementation. There is a certain “camp” that elevates objective performance using the suite of traditional measurements above all else, and in amplifiers that often comes down to bringing noise and distortion down to almost immeasurably low levels, which is indicative of engineering effort, but may go beyond what’s actually meaningful when listening to music.
So the way I see our preamps currently is the BP-26 offers a ‘pure’ analog preamp. The BP17 is an analog preamp with a few Digital sources (Optical and Coax). The BP18 is more a Digital preamp with 2 analog sources. Measurement wise each preamp is a neutral as we know how to make so in most cases it comes down to the feature set our customer prefers.
That being said I would say sonically the BP26 has a more forward soundstage presentation and transients are fast and forward. The BP17 is probably a more neutral sounding preamp frequency wise and the sound stage spreads back and away from the speakers. With the BP18 I am still in the early stages of my listening but I would say the thing I noticed immediately is a further expansion of the soundstage.
While I am tentatively in the group that believes that there’s limited benefit of digital replay at very high bitrates, and any benefit is typically substantially outweighed by the recording and mastering processes (which include aesthetic choices as well as technical concerns), the market does respond to the inclusion of very high bitrate playback as an indicator of quality, so it’s vital that any digital piece accommodates the perceived markers of quality. Note that I acknowledge the actual merit of recording and processing audio at higher bitrates in the professional realm, to avoid compromising the end result when released at “sensible” bitrates. I say this as someone that has extensive former experience recording professionally, as well as being an active consumer of recorded and live music.
I agree that the Mastering side of the music reproduction should be done at higher bitrates – generally 96/24 and the delivery system to our homes at 44. 1/16Bit will work nicely. So much of the performance is determined by the Mastering quality and not the delivery system.
On the whole, the BP-18 looks like an excellent addition to the lineup, and while I’m unlikely to purchase one, given that I’m already well down the road with quality separates and I need more analogue inputs (at least in my main system) I hope it entices more people to join the Bryston family, and enjoy the highest quality reproduction of music - which is presumably why we’re all here…
Yes I think the integrating of these systems keeps the initial costs down and provides a more compact option for those customers that see the merit in such an approach.
Regards,
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Hi folks,
Have the prototype home this weekend for some tests so hope we will soon be able to move forward.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212557)
Check out the measurements!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212558)
Hi James,
The diagram in the upper right corner, what does it represent, does it show harmonic distortion and second and third harmonic being at -110dB?
If so, under what conditions was this measurement taken ans does it indicate that BP-18 actually measures better than BDA-3?
Thanks,
Sasha
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212741)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212740)
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Nice!!!
:thumb:
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Is there a polarity reverse feature on the BP-18...thanks ? :scratch:
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Is there a polarity reverse feature on the BP-18...thanks ? :scratch:
Hi
Yes on the provided remote.
james
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Hi James,
The diagram in the upper right corner, what does it represent, does it show harmonic distortion and second and third harmonic being at -110dB?
If so, under what conditions was this measurement taken ans does it indicate that BP-18 actually measures better than BDA-3?
Thanks,
Sasha
Hi Sasha - from engineering:
Those are the analog inputs as indicated on the bottom of the picture as well as the conditions.
james
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I really like the feature set, just wish I hadn't recently bought a new preamp. Who knows though, I have more than one music room. I miss the BP-25 I sold to buy an SP2, which I finally sold after the SP3 was slow to arrive and I wanted HDMI.
I saw it asked and I think you answered the BP-18 has Home Theater Bypass? Even though 2-channel is the priority, I do want to use the same speakers and amps while watching TV/Movies. I would also need an external phono preamp after just buying an MC cartridge.
Does the USB support FLAC playback? Seems if it did an A to B adapter would be required. Another convenience feature I use a lot on a much lower end Headphone Amp/Preamp is direct digital Apple Lightning connector to USB connection allowing me to play iPod/iPhone/iPad iTunes Apple lossless files. If Apple MFi certification is not practical, at least the ability to connect via the Apple Camera connector for the direct digital connection that bypasses the iPhones DAC and uses the Preamp's DAC. I suppose if these features were included there would be a front mounted USB A port. May not be common for higher end systems but that is how my wife plays her music.
Has the estimated price been announced?
Overall I really like the concept and design and can visualize one in my family room.
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I really like the feature set, just wish I hadn't recently bought a new preamp. Who knows though, I have more than one music room. I miss the BP-25 I sold to buy an SP2, which I finally sold after the SP3 was slow to arrive and I wanted HDMI.
I saw it asked and I think you answered the BP-18 has Home Theater Bypass? Even though 2-channel is the priority, I do want to use the same speakers and amps while watching TV/Movies. I would also need an external phono preamp after just buying an MC cartridge.
Does the USB support FLAC playback? Seems if it did an A to B adapter would be required. Another convenience feature I use a lot on a much lower end Headphone Amp/Preamp is direct digital Apple Lightning connector to USB connection allowing me to play iPod/iPhone/iPad iTunes Apple lossless files. If Apple MFi certification is not practical, at least the ability to connect via the Apple Camera connector for the direct digital connection that bypasses the iPhones DAC and uses the Preamp's DAC. I suppose if these features were included there would be a front mounted USB A port. May not be common for higher end systems but that is how my wife plays her music.
Has the estimated price been announced?
Overall I really like the concept and design and can visualize one in my family room.
Hi camerman
Yes the USB can play all types of digital files.
Sorry no price yet - should know once the bean counters get finished.
james
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Hi Sasha - from engineering:
Those are the analog inputs as indicated on the bottom of the picture as well as the conditions.
james
Thanks James,
Did not notice the bottom, it was too small, once enlarged it was visible, impressive figures.
Is the DAC implementation in BP-18 identical to the one in BDA-3, does it measure as well?
Thanks,
Sasha
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Hi James,
looks like another winner for Bryston... :thumb: :thumb:
As Sasha has asked, what are the DAC chips used in this application, same setup as BDA-3?
I am sure this is late in the development of this unit, but can USB ports be added to the rear and front for more flexibility from music sources.
And what about a I²S port from other external sources, this say this is the best digital interface.
Are the USB port isolated, some manufacturers are using special software/drivers that reduces the noise from this interface.
Luigi
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Thanks James,
Did not notice the bottom, it was too small, once enlarged it was visible, impressive figures.
Is the DAC implementation in BP-18 identical to the one in BDA-3, does it measure as well?
Thanks,
Sasha
Hi Sasha
Yes the DAC is identical.
james
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Hi James,
looks like another winner for Bryston... :thumb: :thumb:
As Sasha has asked, what are the DAC chips used in this application, same setup as BDA-3?
I am sure this is late in the development of this unit, but can USB ports be added to the rear and front for more flexibility from music sources.
And what about a I²S port from other external sources, this say this is the best digital interface.
Are the USB port isolated, some manufacturers are using special software/drivers that reduces the noise from this interface.
Luigi
Hi Luigi
Yes the hardware is set at this point.
james
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I have always mistakenly thought both BP26 and SP3 in 2-ch bypass mode are fully balanced preamps and just realized they're internally converted to single-ended first. I use all XLR cables 1-meter runs from sources to SP3 and 5-to-8.5-meter runs from SP3 to my monoblocks.
So the BP18 should be quieter than the BP26/SP3? Any other potential sonic differences?
One new feature over the BP26 is the BP18 runs fully balanced from input to output.
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I have always mistakenly thought both BP26 and SP3 in 2-ch bypass mode are fully balanced preamps and just realized they're internally converted to single-ended first. I use all XLR cables 1-meter runs from sources to SP3 and 5-to-8.5-meter runs from SP3 to my monoblocks.
So the BP18 should be quieter than the BP26/SP3? Any other potential sonic differences?
Hi Klao
Yes the way we have designed the balanced circuits has rendered even better common mode rejection. This preamp is REALLY QUIET !!!
james
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Listening to Scott Hamilton on my Bryston turntable and MC phono stage :thumb:
james
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212920)
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Hi Klao
Yes the way we have designed the balanced circuits has rendered even better common mode rejection. This preamp is REALLY QUIET !!!
james
That's great. Would this new preamp has HT bypass mode for certain or all inputs?
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That's great. Would this new preamp has HT bypass mode for certain or all inputs?
Hi Klao.
Not sure on that. I know because the BP18 is software driven features can be developed over time so I guess unless there is a hardware issue the sky's the limit!
james
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Hi James,
Here is an unusual question.
Let’s say you get BP-18 but then for whatever reason you decide that you want to use only the DA conversion in it and have the output at fixed volume, bypassing completely the pre-amp section of BP-18, as if you had BDA-3 in place of BP-18.
Is it possible to bypass pre-amp section, and have fixed output without any gain of pre-amp section?
Thanks,
Sasha
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Hi James,
Here is an unusual question.
Let’s say you get BP-18 but then for whatever reason you decide that you want to use only the DA conversion in it and have the output at fixed volume, bypassing completely the pre-amp section of BP-18, as if you had BDA-3 in place of BP-18.
Is it possible to bypass pre-amp section, and have fixed output without any gain of pre-amp section?
Thanks,
Sasha
That's a really good question! LIke I said before, my concern is connecting external headphone amps as this is best done with fixed line-level output.
I really like the look of the BP-18 though. Sort of like a 2-channel version of the SP-3.
Is streaming going to be an option or is it included?
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi James,
Here is an unusual question.
Let’s say you get BP-18 but then for whatever reason you decide that you want to use only the DA conversion in it and have the output at fixed volume, bypassing completely the pre-amp section of BP-18, as if you had BDA-3 in place of BP-18.
Is it possible to bypass pre-amp section, and have fixed output without any gain of pre-amp section?
Thanks,
Sasha
I will find out.
james
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That's a really good question! LIke I said before, my concern is connecting external headphone amps as this is best done with fixed line-level output.
I really like the look of the BP-18 though. Sort of like a 2-channel version of the SP-3.
Is streaming going to be an option or is it included?
Cheers,
Antun
The Pi4 is included Antun. Only option at this point will be the MM Phono Stage.
From a cost of manufacturing perspective the more options you have (models and inventory) the more expensive it becomes - so if you can include most options as a standard it really helps makes all the options cost effective.
james
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Hi James,
Here is an unusual question.
Let’s say you get BP-18 but then for whatever reason you decide that you want to use only the DA conversion in it and have the output at fixed volume, bypassing completely the pre-amp section of BP-18, as if you had BDA-3 in place of BP-18.
Is it possible to bypass pre-amp section, and have fixed output without any gain of pre-amp section?
Thanks,
Sasha
From Engineering:
It is not possible to bypass the level control, however it is possible to assign any input for home theater passthrough and have a fixed output level.
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The Pi4 is included Antun. Only option at this point will be the MM Phono Stage.
From a cost of manufacturing perspective the more options you have (models and inventory) the more expensive it becomes - so if you can include most options as a standard it really helps makes all the options cost effective.
james
Thank you James!
Do you feel like you've surpassed your existing preamps in terms of audio quality with the BP-18? Is it possible we'll see some of the technological implementations done in the BP-18 in future versions of your 'analogue-only' preamps?
Cheers,
Antun
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Thank you James!
Do you feel like you've surpassed your existing preamps in terms of audio quality with the BP-18? Is it possible we'll see some of the technological implementations done in the BP-18 in future versions of your 'analogue-only' preamps?
Cheers,
Antun
Hi
Its a great question and i know the OP amps and the volume control are a new design that the engineer in charge has been working with.
From a listening standpoint all I can say its its really quiet and even the Phono seems to have far less background noise and clicks and pops as such. On thing that is outstanding so far is the size of the stage. It seems to extend in all directions. Also it seems to be able to retrieve details without sounding hard or forward.
When you get to this level of performance its gets harder and harder to distinguish between preamp 1 2 or 3 as to which is better but I think the lower we can get the noise floor and the distortions the better you are able to hear the subtleties in the music like soundstage size and air and ambience around instruments.
Thats my story so far.
james
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Hi
Its a great question and i know the OP amps and the volume control are a new design that the engineer in charge has been working with.
From a listening standpoint all I can say its its really quiet and even the Phono seems to have far less background noise and clicks and pops as such. On thing that is outstanding so far is the size of the stage. It seems to extend in all directions. Also it seems to be able to retrieve details without sounding hard or forward.
When you get to this level of performance its gets harder and harder to distinguish between preamp 1 2 or 3 as to which is better but I think the lower we can get the noise floor and the distortions the better you are able to hear the subtleties in the music like soundstage size and air and ambience around instruments.
Thats my story so far.
james
Thank you for your honesty James! I will be following this topic with satisfaction. I believe your preamps are world-class and wish you all the success.
Cheers,
Antun
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From a listening standpoint all I can say its its really quiet and even the Phono seems to have far less background noise and clicks and pops as such. On thing that is outstanding so far is the size of the stage. It seems to extend in all directions. Also it seems to be able to retrieve details without sounding hard or forward.
Hi James.
What in your opinion contributes to the size and depth of a sound stage, what is the quantifiable and measurable characteristic of a device that will present itself in a different perception of sound stage size?
I understand what contributes to the precise positioning of a source of a sound (instruments, vocalists within a sound stage), retrieval of details, etc., but I am not sure what drives the size and depth?
Sasha
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Hi James.
What in your opinion contributes to the size and depth of a sound stage, what is the quantifiable and measurable characteristic of a device that will present itself in a different perception of sound stage size?
I understand what contributes to the precise positioning of a source of a sound (instruments, vocalists within a sound stage), retrieval of details, etc., but I am not sure what drives the size and depth?
Sasha
I think it has to do with the noise floor of the system and the lower distortion - especially IM distortion. I only say this because of my experience over the years with how our products have developed.
It seems to me that each time we were able to reduce IM and lower the noise floor I was able to hear more into the mix. So the really low level information (size of hall , air around instruments etc.) that is riding on the noise floor is delineated to a greater degree. I use human voice a lot to asses a system because we are all use to the way voices sound in the real world and in real rooms. I find if the system can give me a 'person in the room' effect I am on the right track when developing our products. Have you ever had times when you are listening and a sound or a voice on the recording will almost startle you? That's a great sign in my opinion that the system is resolving at a very high level of fidelity.
james
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I remember attending an audio show in Toronto many years ago (I think it was at the King Edward or Royal York Hotel. As I approached the Bryston display, I was sure that you had a live chamber orchestra in your area. I was shocked to find it was "just" Bryston amplifiers and PMC speakers. :duh:
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I think it has to do with the noise floor of the system and the lower distortion - especially IM distortion. I only say this because of my experience over the years with how our products have developed.
It seems to me that each time we were able to reduce IM and lower the noise floor I was able to hear more into the mix. So the really low level information (size of hall , air around instruments etc.) that is riding on the noise floor is delineated to a greater degree. I use human voice a lot to asses a system because we are all use to the way voices sound in the real world and in real rooms. I find if the system can give me a 'person in the room' effect I am on the right track when developing our products. Have you ever had times when you are listening and a sound or a voice on the recording will almost startle you? That's a great sign in my opinion that the system is resolving at a very high level of fidelity.
james
A superb write-up James! I know exactly what you mean when you say the voices startle you. It happens only during a live performance, either acoustic or with a very-well tuned PA system, OR while listening to a very high performance audio system. Without exaggeration, one of the best systems I have ever heard is the BDP-2/BDA-2/BHA-1 driving a pair of Sennheiser HD800 headphones. I will even go as far as to say in some ways the music sounds more alive than when we were in the studio recording it.
Some of my friends think the equipment looks too plain and bland but when they hear it, they will say things like "Oh, now I get it."
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi James!
Do you have a release date on the new BP-18 preamp?
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi James!
Do you have a release date on the new BP-18 preamp?
Cheers,
Antun
Hi Antun
I would say about 4 weeks. I am still doing some final listening tests and then we have to order parts and start manufacturing. Have a few orders already so there may be some catch-up time.
Also we have decided to make the HDMI section an option.
james
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Hi Antun
I would say about 4 weeks. I am still doing some final listening tests and then we have to order parts and start manufacturing. Have a few orders already so there may be some catch-up time.
Also we have decided to make the HDMI section an option.
james
Hi James!
That's excellent news!
Do you think you'll have a brochure that shows all of the features and connections of the product? Or at least a white paper of a sort?
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi James!
That's excellent news!
Do you think you'll have a brochure that shows all of the features and connections of the product? Or at least a white paper of a sort?
Cheers,
Antun
Gary does all that so we have to bug him! :lol:
james
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Gary does all that so we have to bug him! :lol:
james
Well, he's taller than me so I wouldn't dare. However, you're his boss :)
Cheers,
Antun
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Do you have any idea when the BP18 will be available in the UK?
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Do you have any idea when the BP18 will be available in the UK?
Hi Clive
I would assume around the same time.
james
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Well, he's taller than me so I wouldn't dare. However, you're his boss :)
Cheers,
Antun
Hi Antun
Well I have never considered myself to be a boss - I prefer to work with people rather than have people work for me.
james
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Hi Antun
Well I have never considered myself to be a boss - I prefer to work with people rather than have people work for me.
james
Hi James!
You're lucky! You have quite a team there!
All the best,
Antun
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will this be an option on the 18??...
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPtDbTJvjI/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPtDbTJvjI/)
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will this be an option on the 18??...
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPtDbTJvjI/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPtDbTJvjI/)
Hi
I guess we could - will look into it.
james
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It does seem a bit strange discussing colour with Amplifiers, but I am assuming there will be a black with blue lights option - to match my existing AV stuff.
Cheers
Stuart
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It does seem a bit strange discussing colour with Amplifiers, but I am assuming there will be a black with blue lights option - to match my existing AV stuff.
Cheers
Stuart
Hi Stuart
Yes for sure.
james
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from James post above
Modular Design
Digital inputs:
2 Toslink
2 Spdif
2 AES
1 USB
4 HDMI
1 Pi4
Analog Inputs:
2x RCA (1 can be phono)
2x XLR
Analog outputs:
2 Pair x XLR
Analog volume control, digitally controlled.
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Hi James,
Are there any news on BP-18 release date?
Thanks,
Sasha
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Hi James,
Are there any news on BP-18 release date?
Thanks,
Sasha
Hi Sasha
Still working on some software but all the material is being ordered so i would say about a month.
I know Gary's working on a brochure as well.
james
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Hi Sasha
Still working on some software but all the material is being ordered so i would say about a month.
I know Gary's working on a brochure as well.
james
I am looking forward to the brochure!
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi Folks,
I have a question.
On the BP18 it is the first preamp we have designed that is a "fully Balanced" design - meaning there is a separate circuit path for the positive and negative sides of the musical waveform. Its considered to be the most accurate way to amplify a signal. As a result the output from the BP18 is 2 sets of balanced XLRs - thereby ensuring the continuity of the signal performance. If a customer wanted to use RCA out he would have to use an XLR to RCA adapter or XLR to RCA cable. This would 'unbalance' the output of course.
So should we include a quality set of XLR to RCA adapters in the product?
thanks
james
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Hi Folks,
I have a question.
On the BP18 it is the first preamp we have designed that is a "fully Balanced" design - meaning there is a separate circuit path for the positive and negative sides of the musical waveform. Its considered to be the most accurate way to amplify a signal. As a result the output from the BP18 is 2 sets of balanced XLRs - thereby ensuring the continuity of the signal performance. If a customer wanted to use RCA out he would have to use an XLR to RCA adapter or XLR to RCA cable. This would 'unbalance' the output of course.
So should we include a quality set of XLR to RCA adapters in the product?
thanks
james
I would say no, it can be purchased separately as an option, better to offer more competitive pricing with options to add, this is the approach used by other manufacturers as well.
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Hi Folks,
I have a question.
On the BP18 it is the first preamp we have designed that is a "fully Balanced" design - meaning there is a separate circuit path for the positive and negative sides of the musical waveform. Its considered to be the most accurate way to amplify a signal. As a result the output from the BP18 is 2 sets of balanced XLRs - thereby ensuring the continuity of the signal performance. If a customer wanted to use RCA out he would have to use an XLR to RCA adapter or XLR to RCA cable. This would 'unbalance' the output of course.
So should we include a quality set of XLR to RCA adapters in the product?
thanks
james
no, the ones who are balanced shouldn’t pay for it, however at a price just above cost would be a real incentive for some. I’ve always wanted a wish list of upgraded features from factory. In the lines of no good, better, best there would be options like better internal xlr inputs outputs, upgraded fuses yes fuses, capped rca xlr ends that a user may not use. Since each order is hand built why not make it custom built. I’ve always wanted to say that even as a upgrade with already owned pieces, here’s the part I want installed. Of course with upgrades comes a higher and fully expected price.
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James,
As for supplying 'unbalancing XLR-RCA' cables - I would suggest it is an optional cable as suggested by the others, rather than add cost to the standard amplifier.
Having an audio cable I did not need in this house would also take some explaining!
Cheers
Stuart
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Make it an option
I agree with Stuart 😄
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A few thoughts in favor of including them by default, ignoring any possible impact on the MSRP and logistics:
- People don't have to worry about finding or waiting on delivery for adapters when the need arises.
- People don't have to worry about knowing the proper wiring configuration of the adapter.
- Less likely that someone will connect an incorrectly wired adapter that they have lying around or purchase elsewhere.
- Fewer conversations about any potential degradation to sound due to using an adapter.
- Avoids problems where a customer or a dealer forgets to ask about them or to include them in an order.
- Makes resale easier.
I'd also recommend including the proper adapter wiring configuration in the user manual, as well as a recommendation for where/how ground is terminated when using an XLR to RCA cable, for people who want to use third-party solutions.
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^ Good points - thanks
james
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I recognize that performance is not necessarily the main concern for some customers but there are a number of valid reasons to utilize the BP-18 in the Balanced mode:
BP-18 Balanced Circuitry Explained
Bryston has been able to make significant improvements in the new BP-18 preamp circuitry. The major contributor is the fact that we can keep a fully balanced signal path throughout the input to output.
I cannot stress this enough.
The inputs are also a new design.
The output circuitry is also a new design. If we had a single-ended output on the BP-18 or use an adapter, it will give you the same performance as the balanced output, but the problem will be the single-ended connection from preamp to power amp, you would lose all the benefits of maintaining a balanced circuit path.
In the past, a fully balanced signal path was difficult to achieve because you would need a volume pot with 4 tapers. With the volume control chips, this is no longer an issue.
The new design does have a slightly better lower noise floor than previous designs but it’s much better at suppressing common mode noise.
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A single led on the volume knob would be more effective solution than 30 leds around the knob :)
Is a remote included?
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A single led on the volume knob would be more effective solution than 30 leds around the knob :)
Is a remote included?
Hi
Only 1 lights at a time.
Yes the remote is the new BR4.
james
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Hi James, if you recall my post about shorting pin3 on the BHA-1...
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170919.0
I think the same applies here. Every XLR to RCA connector I've seen will short PIN 3 to PIN 1. According to Mike, this is not recommended on a fully active system like the BHA-1, and I think the BP18 is the same.
I think you should include the adapters wired properly for your equipment. At a minimum, put something in the manual, or better yet on the back panel advising not to short pin 3.
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^ Good point - I was thinking some kind of drawing and warning if that is the case with the BP18- I am going to check with Mike.
james
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Hi James, is there a chance we could see a photo of the new BR4 remote?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214217)
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Hi fellas!
A few questions regarding the BR-4 remote handset:
1. does it do everything a BR-2 does? I am particularly interested in it's ability to control a BDA-2 DAC (input switching and up-sample function) as well as basic transport controls for BDP-2.
2. Is it available separately and how much does it cost?
3. What is the current retail of the BR-2 and would this one do everything I mentioned above?
Cheers,
Antun
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I use mine primarily to control a BCD-3 and BP17c. Haven't tried it on my BDA-2.
If you live in the US, Moon Audio imports them. Price $149
IMO, it's much easier to see the buttons and labels, and much easier to use than the BR2
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I use mine primarily to control a BCD-3 and BP17c. Haven't tried it on my BDA-2.
If you live in the US, Moon Audio imports them. Price $149
IMO, it's much easier to see the buttons and labels, and much easier to use than the BR2
Thanks mate!
No, I don't live in the US. If it works with a BCD-3, it should likely work with a BDP-2.
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi fellas!
A few questions regarding the BR-4 remote handset:
1. does it do everything a BR-2 does? I am particularly interested in it's ability to control a BDA-2 DAC (input switching and up-sample function) as well as basic transport controls for BDP-2.
2. Is it available separately and how much does it cost?
3. What is the current retail of the BR-2 and would this one do everything I mentioned above?
Cheers,
Antun
Hello Antun,
The BR-4 does everything that is necessary for my BDA-3.14, except upsampling. Not a big deal for me, because the differences are quite small for my ears.
As far as I know, the BR-2 was designed with the BDA-2 and the BDP-2 in mind, so it should be the perfect companion for both units. I don’t own of these, so I can’t test it for you. It does have a button for upsampling.
In daily use, I prefer the BR-4 above the BR-2. It is also much cheaper than the BR-2, even when you buy the latter for a reduced price in combination with a suitable Bryston unit.
HTH
WillyP
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Hello Antun,
The BR-4 does everything that is necessary for my BDA-3.14, except upsampling. Not a big deal for me, because the differences are quite small for my ears.
As far as I know, the BR-2 was designed with the BDA-2 and the BDP-2 in mind, so it should be the perfect companion for both units. I don’t own of these, so I can’t test it for you. It does have a button for upsampling.
In daily use, I prefer the BR-4 above the BR-2. It is also much cheaper than the BR-2, even when you buy the latter for a reduced price in combination with a suitable Bryston unit.
HTH
WillyP
It does help me, willy! Thank you!
I agree that the newer BR-4 does appear to be designed more ergonomically as the buttons aren't all of equal shape.
I'll have to think about this!
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi James,
Is there any news on BP-18 release date?
Thanks,
Sasha
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Renamed to BR-20. Check the latest thread with the announcement.
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Thanks Zoom
james