Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?

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barrows

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #40 on: 14 Nov 2014, 07:49 pm »
While 'mathematical equations & measurements' would be nice, I would settle for references from real experts like:

Henry W. Ott
Keith Armstrong
Ralph Morrison

And no, Caelin Gabriel is not an expert.

Speed:  While you may or may not believe in the products which he sells, the fact is that Caelin Gabriel actually is an expert when it comes to noise in electric/electronic circuits.  Perhaps you might due a little research on his background before mis-speaking again.

jtwrace

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #41 on: 14 Nov 2014, 07:52 pm »
Speed:  While you may or may not believe in the products which he sells, the fact is that Caelin Gabriel actually is an expert when it comes to noise in electric/electronic circuits.  Perhaps you might due a little research on his background before mis-speaking again.
Since you know what his background is, can you post it?

Speedskater

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #42 on: 14 Nov 2014, 07:59 pm »
Speed:  While you may or may not believe in the products which he sells, the fact is that Caelin Gabriel actually is an expert when it comes to noise in electric/electronic circuits.  Perhaps you might due a little research on his background before mis-speaking again.
So do you have a list of his published books and professional papers?
To my knowledge, he wrote a chapter in a "The Absolute Sound" book. And surprisingly it was pretty good at the consumer level.  But then you read his product marketing papers and they are far from good.

farquad

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #43 on: 14 Nov 2014, 08:18 pm »
Speed:  While you may or may not believe in the products which he sells, the fact is that Caelin Gabriel actually is an expert when it comes to noise in electric/electronic circuits.  Perhaps you might due a little research on his background before mis-speaking again.

Even though him being an expert, the quotes sound more like marketing than science. Lots of words used to exaggerate a point. Words like significant, dramatically, profound etc.

clpetersen

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Re: Power Cords and NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #44 on: 14 Nov 2014, 09:55 pm »
Well, I have a pretty good agilent one, but unfortunately I don't have any power cables that would make a difference, so nothing to measure :-/

Like Julf, I have access to a range of spectrum analyzers. 

From a previous post, if you are worried about switch-mode conducted EMI getting back into your system, there are many filters out there (Schurter, Qualtek, API, etc.) designed for the purpose. In fact, there is a large body of regulations that require this. Home stereos are exempt from these regulations. If curious, google IEC 60601-1-2.

Use a power cord to deliver sufficient amperage, use a filter as a filter.

Julf

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Re: Power Cords and NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #45 on: 15 Nov 2014, 09:16 am »
From a previous post, if you are worried about switch-mode conducted EMI getting back into your system, there are many filters out there (Schurter, Qualtek, API, etc.) designed for the purpose.

Absolutely. My only word of warning is that if you go for a fully floating design, you want to make sure that a T or pi type filter doesn't form a path between mains and your signal ground.

Quote
Use a power cord to deliver sufficient amperage, use a filter as a filter.

+1

clpetersen

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Re: Power Cords and NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #46 on: 15 Nov 2014, 12:17 pm »
Absolutely. My only word of warning is that if you go for a fully floating design, you want to make sure that a T or pi type filter doesn't form a path between mains and your signal ground.

A good point. If people are considering line filtering, and it is not at all certain that it is required, then a 'medical grade' filter can be used. By regulation, a medical grade filter cannot put so-called leakage current to ground. This diminishes the effectiveness of the filter somewhat, but maintains isolation of signal from earth ground.

Julf

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Re: Power Cords and NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #47 on: 15 Nov 2014, 01:11 pm »
If people are considering line filtering, and it is not at all certain that it is required, then a 'medical grade' filter can be used.

Won't that make the amps sound "too clinical"? :)

OzarkTom

Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #48 on: 15 Nov 2014, 01:25 pm »
A similar power cable test with 10 cables was done at the San Francisco Audio Society with Jim Vaughn of Vaughn speakers attending. They found a $1K cable sounding the best, but a very close second was the $150 Pangea AC-14XL cable which surprised everyone.

http://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14-Power-Cable/dp/B00MPRGUC8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1416057151&sr=8-4&keywords=pangea+audio

Julf

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #49 on: 15 Nov 2014, 01:55 pm »
A similar power cable test with 10 cables was done at the San Francisco Audio Society with Jim Vaughn of Vaughn speakers attending.

Amy links to the test (explaining their test methodology)?

OzarkTom

Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #50 on: 15 Nov 2014, 03:49 pm »
Amy links to the test (explaining their test methodology)?

They listened with their ears.

Julf

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #51 on: 15 Nov 2014, 03:51 pm »
They listened with their ears.

And only with their ears?

How long did the switching time take between listening to each cable?

barrows

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #52 on: 15 Nov 2014, 04:03 pm »
Caelin Gabriel used to work for a defense contractor specifically in the area of reducing noise in electronics.  It has been awhile since I researched it, so I am not sure if I a remembering correctly, but I believe he was reducing noise in submarine systems to avoid their detection and tracking.  His expertise has nothing to do with marketing, which, as with most audio companies includes a number of statements which seem unscientific and/or hyperbolic.  The reasons for these kinds of marketing approaches is twofold: 1. The company does not believe the general public would understand the actual, full technical explanation. 2. The company uses unprecise language so as not to disclose proprietary designs in the public domain.

I am not suggesting using a power cable as a filter specifically (although I am not sure why one might object to this if the filter is properly tuned to the circuit).  I would avoid putting actual filter circuits in the cable, as one may not know the filter elements in the SMPS (or connected power conditioner) and multiple filter elements may lead to resonances if they are not tuned appropriately.  I prefer building cables for digital and class D/SMPS devices which use RF damping materials, which are non-reactive with other filter elements in the circuit.
So: no RC or RCL elements, just materials which can damp RF energy (converting some of it to heat).  I will not reveal what materials I use as I may be interested in selling cables at some point, and I have tried a bunch of approaches and invested considerable time.  But this stuff is not rocket science (of wait, some of it is) and the info on these materials is readily available on the Internet.

OzarkTom

Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #53 on: 15 Nov 2014, 04:09 pm »
And only with their ears?

How long did the switching time take between listening to each cable?

I wasn't there, you will have to ask someone in San Francisco that was there. All of the other cables cost $500-3000. Pangea was a big surprise.

forkliftHIFI

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #54 on: 15 Nov 2014, 04:47 pm »
Monoprice 14 AWG power cord.  $3.33 

I don't know about a fuse I had someone build it. 

swelfelo

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Re: Power Cords and Fuses with NCore Amps - What do you use?
« Reply #55 on: 1 Dec 2014, 12:05 am »
I am presently running Shunyata Research Black Mamba CX HC's on my NCores. They sound magnificent to my ear, although I have not experimented with other cables.

I plan on upgrading the fuses for shits and giggles. I have upgraded the fuses on the rest of my equipment but I think that any changes were so subtle that it is not a priority at the moment for the NCores. The other fuses were upgraded to Hi Fi Tuning Supremes

BTW if Caelin Gabriel is not an expert, then I am a kangaroo. I am not a kangaroo at last check. Even if you don't like his prose, the company has published technical data supporting and explaining their claims.

Swelfelo