AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Reviews of Accessories => Topic started by: Tyson on 2 Mar 2003, 06:38 am
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Thought I'd post some impressions from our 4 way comparison between the:
Balanced Power BP 2.5 (Ultra)
Bolder Bybee Power Strip
Trip Lite Isobar Line Conditioner
Dezoral Power Filter
The system was, as usual, Jason's. Consisting of:
VMPS 626R speakers
Kimber Kable KKSV 2K2 speaker wire
VMPS Original subs (stereo pair crossed over at 50hz)
Sony SA777ES SACD player
Radii Reference tube Preamp
Radii Reference tube power amp (78 watts to the 626R's)
QSC pro amp for the subs
We started out with the system plugged straight in to the wall as a reference. Sounded very good, as Jason's system usually does.
Next up was the DeZorel. Sound was smoother in the mids, but more forward overall, and brighter in the mid-highs and above. Bass was about the same as straight from the wall. Imaging and ambiance were slightly better. Overall, I'd say this was a marginal improvement over AC straight from the wall.
Next was the Trip Lite. Really, it didn't seem to do much compared to AC straight from the wall. Maybe a little better delineation of instruments and cleaner ambiant sounds, but that's about it. This unit does offer protection against surges, over voltages, and long lasting under-voltages, so there is a reason to consider it, aside from it's sonic performance (which was minimal).
Bolder power strip was next. Much better than wall AC. Now we are talking. Cleaner highs, deeper soundstage, more prominent ambiant effects. Where the other units tended to make the music sound a little opaque, the Bolder gave a more translucent sound. Overall just a more relaxed, dileneated, and more emotional presentation.
BP 2.5 Ultra was up last. Take everything I said about the Bolder and give it an extra 10% improvement, and that was my impression of the 2.5 - just did everything a bit better than the Bolder strip. But I was suprised at how similar the were, not only in performance, but also in overall character. The 2.5 is signifigantly more expensive, but if you got the $$, it will give you that last iota of performance.
So, another afternoon spent doing comparisons, a Saturday at that, and that's all I've got to say. Sometimes I think my life is a bit too centered on audio. . .
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Oh, one other thing - we daisy chained together the Bolder and Balanced Power stuff, and did not really hear any difference or improvement over the Balanced power conditioner by itself.
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Tyson summed it up pretty nicely. I'll add my short comments.
The only two power thingys (in lack of a better all incompassing term) worth mentioning IMO are the BPT and the Bolder power bar. The others, I wouldn't waste my money on.
The BPT 2.5 overall was the most refined in the group. I found it to have the best overall resolution. I say resolution in that this seemed to be where these units made an improvement if any at all. Ironically as Tyson pointed out, neither of these units made a difference that was not on par with what the other one did (I'm speaking strictly in reference to the BPT and the Bolder power strip) And this is what made both units great.
The Bolder power bar.... What can I say that hasn't been said about the BPT? Same thing, but a little less refinement. I was very suprised to find this, but it's exactly what I heard. For the price of this unit I would be stupid to go with anything else. I really do think the BPT was better, but not enough to justify the $700 price difference. For power the Bolder Power bar is without a doubt my next upgrade. :mrgreen:
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Thanks for the comparrison and very interesting results. How did you guy's connect the system to the various devices since they have different numbers of outlets?
There's probably too many variables to draw any absolute conclusions, but several possibilites come to mind, based on Jason's system and 3 ears:
1. The majority of the improvement can be attributed to hiqh quality wiring and receptacles as opposed to actual "filtering", since the Bolder has some minimal Risch type filtering, but is otherwise just a high quality power strip. The system improvement is due to the ACME outlets and Nitro star wiring.
2. Perhaps the balanced power from the BPT accounts for the slight edge over the Bolder, but otherwise it's the higher quality wiring/receptacles that brings most of the improvement from the BPT over wall power, just like the Bolder.
3. Or, you could assume the wire/receptacle quality of the Bolder is several notches above the DeZorel and BPT, and it's the BPT's balanced power the closes the gap and overall exceeds the Bolder, while the DeZorel is left behind. This would imply there are two methods to get similar results, and while entirely possible, #2 is easier to explain.
4. The Bybees in the Bolder contribute little to the overall improvement, based on there being no difference from chaining the Bolder after the BPT. Further evidence to support hypothesis #1???
So the real question for me is the relative impact of the receptacle vs filtering and balanced power in the final result. I guess Wayne needs to build a Bolder Balanced Power Bar with all the same wiring to really answer that question :D
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My own hypothesis was that there is only a certain ammount of noise present to clean up in an absolute sense. The Bolder and BPT products did the best job of cleaning up that noise, with the BPT being a bit more effective overall than the Bolder strip. That's probably why daisy chaining them wasn't all that impressive - once the noise is gone, its gone, and any further filtering doesn't improve things very much at all. Just my theory.
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Hi, I just joined and thought I get my feet wet with my views on the BP2.5. I just got my unit back from Chis Hoff last week with the full boat of modifications. He upgraded my unit with silver wiring, Hubbels, Bybee purifiers, and custom DynamiCaps on the Hubbels. He also added a high performance filter (mine was his first) :mrgreen: that upgrades his transformers to that of his new NBT transformers. Now I haven`t heard any of these other conditioners but I`d be willing to bet that this modified BP2.5 would blow the rest out of the water. The smoothness and the depth of this unit is nothing short of incredible. Chris`s new BP3.5 w/NBT will be coming out shortly and will have all these features as standard. But for those with shallow pockets, I highly recommend any of his other units with the modifcations, IMHO. Robin
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Hi Satrat, welcome.
Since you are new around here, you probably didn't know that when you make a product claim such as yours, you must send it to me for verification. :wink:
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LOL, I ain`t THAT new dude! But if you ever get the chance to check out the new BP3.5 that will have all these mods as standard issue, you`ll understand my excitement. I`ll say no more, much,,,, :lol: Robin
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Robin, have you heard the 3.5? I have one on order, but b-p-t is still waiting on the transformers. I'm curious, because if I understand correctly, the 3.5 is not balanced (in contrast to the 2.5), but Chris seemed to think the 3.5 would still perform better.
Thanks,
Randy
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Hi Randy, I`m afraid I know as much about the BP3.5 as yourself. Chris mentioned to me that it`s not a balanced power conditioner but an isolation transformer. One thing I do know is that if the BP3.5 has better performance than my maxed out BP2.5, you in for a treat. It`ll definitely worth the wait. I`m sure Chris will get back to ya with more info at the Discord. And I`m expecting to hear from ya with your opinions after you`ve had that BP3.5 for a week or so. It took a bit of a burn-in for my unit to start shining. Keep in touch, hea? Regards, Robin
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I own the BPT 2.5 and JR MK II , to keep my SACD player isolated from the amplifier. I wholeheartedly agree with Tyson and Jason - Chris makes a wonderful product. I had no qualms about getting rid of my PS Audio 600 and 300 in favor of the BPT gear. I felt as though the PowerPlants had a slight dynamic compression to them, from the generator not being able to keep up with transients. BPT is among the best I've heard, and apparently this only improves when paired with Equitech gear.
Regards,
Rup
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Can you plug in an Odyssey DualMono amp to the Bolder or BPT without any loss of fidelity?
Do these products offer any decent protection from surges and other electrical no-no's?
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I have a pair of Odyssey mono's plugged into a BP 2.5 and in my system, they sound much better than being plugged into unfiltered AC. Just the opposite of losing fidelity. I have no sense of the BPT limiting the amps in any way.
Chris does provide surge protection in the BPT products. One thing the BPT products don't do is stabilize the voltage like some others. IMO, this is not a problem but it may be for others.
Regards,
mike
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I'm going to give the BP-1 a try for my video system and see how it
does, I'll try it in my 2ch too, not going to use it with my amps thou.
- Pete
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Hi, so long as you don`t exceed the amperage of your unit, ANYTHING & EVERYTHING in your system can & should be plugged into the BPT conditioner. Chris has the duplex outlets isolated from each other so it`s important to segragate anaolg from digital. Video will be improved but it`s important to remember that if your display device has been ISF-calibrated, changing anything such as the power cord or power conditioner will require a recalibration. Ideally tho, everything in your HT system will benefit from balanced power. My HT system will NEVER be without it! Regards, Robin
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Does anyone have any opinions on this Brickwall "audiophile" product as described on their website. How would this compare to the other equipment on this thread?.........
Product #: PWRM15AUD
https://trorderonline.thomasregister.com/heading.cgi?az=73618928&pn=0046597&uuid=&clearcart=yes&origin=olc
How about the Niles IPC-12:
http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/sh.pl?accspowr&974475131&item&Questforsound&4&5&6&http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fs_srch.plQQANYAAAApurlsrchAAEXYAAstAAAAAAniles=ipc-12
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I have a Brick Wall. It has excellent surge protection specs, but I didn't like it with my audio system, so I'm using it with my video system. It doesn't seem to negatively affect my video system, but I'm not as anal with it.
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Robin, do you mind if I ask what BPT charges for the full-boat of mods to the BP-2.5? I'm curious how that compares to the BP-3.5 list.
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Robin, do you mind if I ask what BPT charges for the full-boat of mods to the BP-2.5? I'm curious how that compares to the BP-3.5 list.
Well, you can find the complete price listings at www.b-p-t.com . The 3 biggest improvements, Bybee`s, high current noise filter and Litz PC would run you $600 alone Then you have the silver wirng, Hubbels, and Auricaps. Chris Hoff cut me quite a deal as I had the works done, bought my own DynamiCaps for the capacitor upgrade, and I ended up waiting 2 months for my unit cuz he was in the process of finding an adequate noise filter for his upgrade package. The noise filter wasn`t being offered as of yet when I sent my unit in. But to be truthful, the price difference is so close in an upgraded BP2.5 that I would have bought the BP3.5 if I hadn`t already had my unit. After all, his new conditioner has the state of the art Plitron NBT transformer and all the upgrades are included. Hope this help you out. Regards, Robin
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I keep re-reading this thread with interest and confusion. I say confusion because it seems like an apples and oranges comparison which achieve similar results.
I hear all this great stuff about bybees yet the BPT unit does a better job without them <vs the Bolder PS with them> (score one for design). Yet again, Chris uses them in his latest creation BP-3.5. The Bolder product is also available without them. I think that a better next step would be to evaluate both products with and w/o bybees. In that comparison the logical order from least to best would be 1) Bolder PS, 2) Bolder PS w/bybees, 3) BP-2.5, 4) BP-3.5 w/bybees. What would be more informative, tho, are the gaps between them. Then, you gotta ask 'how clean is damn clean' and when do you get to the point of diminishing returns? From what I've read everywhere about the BP-2.5, you can't get any cleaner. Does that make the 3.5 unnecessary gilding?
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Randog, where did you ever get the idea that BPT`s balanced power conditioners were better without the Bybee`s installed? IMHO, your waay off base there. First off, the Bolder conditioner isn`t a balanced power conditioner, there`s your apples and orange. But I would agree with your logical order of comparision between the units, although I`ve never heard the Bolder units. As far as diminishing returns, that`s a tuff one. What I can tell you is a year ago, I would never have spent $1000 on a conditioner. But I did alot of research on Balanced Power and with BPT being the cheapest, with awesome reviews of their musicality, and their 30 day money back guarantee, I took a chance. After 8 months of hearing things out of my speakers of 17 years old that I had never experienced, I just had to know how good this conditioner could be, PERIOD! So I went for it and found out, hence my posts on my present experiences. I am so taken back by the Bybee`s (among all the other mods) that I just picked up a pair Bybee speaker filters (I need 3 more filters in my system, hehe). When is enough,,, enough? I guess when I can`t hear anymore improvements in the music I love. But I have put alot of effort in my power supply from a dedicated circuit to power cord replacements with IEC installations of my components. And my efforts have paid off 10 fold without any major upgrades of components. Please keep in mind that I`m not an audiophile and have a middle of the road 6.1 HT system. But my sound is impressively clean, squeeky clean and THAT makes ALL the difference, IMHO. My $.02. Regards, Robin
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I can see where my post may have mislead you. What I meant to say is that according to this evaluation the BPT unit (without the bybees) was better than the Bolder unit that had the bybees. Clear enough? 8)
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I concur! :banghead: LOL Regards, Robin