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I have mentioned this service before here on AC within a few threads and earlier this week I posted something about it on our Facebook page. So I thought I'd make a new post for it here as well for those that are not aware of this service.
For all of you guys out there trying your hand at building or designing your own speakers, we offer a free measuring and testing service. You just cover the shipping cost both ways and we'll run a complete set of measurements, plus provide evaluation, and recommendations (for FREE). The measurements include on axis responses, vertical off axis responses, horizontal off axis responses, individual driver responses, a spectral decay, and the impedance response.
But if it's a big heavy speaker then you might have to show up with it and help set up and take down or cover a handling fee.
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Maybe you should announce it also in Diyaudio.
If I did not live in Spain, I would ask you to buy the KEF Q750 and rebuild the filter, with at least 12 dB drops for the woofers. With better components off course, without the 10uF electrolytic.
[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-Q750-crossover.jpg
Borrowed picture of:
[Polish review] http://www.avtest.pl/zestawy-glosnikowe/item/767-kef-q750
to English with Google: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avtest.pl%2Fzestawy-glosnikowe%2Fitem%2F767-kef-q750&edit-text=&act=url
[IMG] http://www.avtest.pl/images/testy/kolumny/kef-q750/KEF-Q750-8-impedancja.jpg
[IMG] http://www.avtest.pl/images/testy/kolumny/kef-q750/KEF-Q750-9-zzz.jpg
Why? The answer:
http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/reference-components/1146-recommended-reference-component-kef-q750-loudspeakers
With better cables. Neotech SOCT-16 to the audiophiles or star quad geometry like Canare 4S11 to the others.
And viscoelastic material or others to the inside walls.
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I have to admit, that's some pretty cheesy crossover parts for a speaker of that price point. Actually those parts are pretty cheesy for any speaker.
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-Q750-crossover.jpg)
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KEF Q900 crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-Q900-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-Q900-crossover.jpg)
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Lots of up side potential there.
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KEF LS50 crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-LS50-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-LS50-crossover.jpg)
KEF Q100 crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover.jpg)
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Looks like a trend. Maybe I should go into the Kef upgrading business.
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KEF LS50 crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-LS50-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-LS50-crossover.jpg)
:o That’s not quite what I would have expected.
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Ugh. Just looking at those pics make me break out in a hashy treble.
Yuck. Sonicap or ClarityCap CSA at minimum needed, stat. Are those 20awg inductors for the woofers? Sheesh. For what they're charging that's pathetic.
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:o That’s not quite what I would have expected.
Sadly, that's exactly what I have come to expect. Iron core 18 ga inductors, cheap poly caps, sand and wire resistors. I know AJ in Fl did a fine job with those 100 woofers several years back. I'd love to hear what Danny could do with them.
You may have already seen this, but this is a F/R graph from an Altec Valencia reworked by Danny a few months back. Those big woofers and horn are not easy to tame. Lots have tried.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170427)
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I have no doubt that when it comes crossovers Danny has a magic wand and the ability to improve practically anything. If I lived in Texas, I'd have him look at my Spatial's, but it would cost too much to ship them from Canada and back. However I do intend to get some other much smaller and lighter speakers off to him soon though. 8)
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:o That’s not quite what I would have expected.
I have both a the passive Kef LS 50 & the powered LS50 W have to give credit to KEF that even with cheesy and cheap parts they make them sound so good.
A-shah
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I've never heard them but I've noticed that they frequently appear on the used market. It would be interesting to hear them before and after Danny.
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To finish with KEF,
The R series use a electrolytic too and...
KEF R600c crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-R600c-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-R600c-crossover.jpg)
The same happens with many other brands, with very expensive speakers, very nice on the outside but neglecting the inside because you can not see it!
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What are those "blankets" around the R600 caps? Probably trying to keep vibration away from the cap or maybe just trying to keep you from seeing their cheesy cap choice.
maty,
Do you own a set that you want to improve or just have access for pictures? If you own it, you could play around with resistors to get the woofer level you want and then have Danny sell you better components of the same value. It wouldn't be the same as having him measure and fix it, but certainly would be a step up in quality.
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I already improved my KEF Q100. I could not remove the coaxial crown for fear of breaking it so I could only act on the crossover. The current sound is much better than the original, which sounded very bad during the first hours, without bass -> they are a terrible purchase for compulsive buyers.
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Oh man, I wish you were in the Altanta area. I would be on your doorstep tomorrow morning w coffee and bagels.
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Focal Chorus 826V crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Focal-Chorus-826V-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Focal-Chorus-826V-crossover.jpg)
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That Focal crossover looks kind of familiar. I upgraded a pair of Focal 707's several years ago.
Here is the stock and then newly designed crossover side by side.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/focal%20707%20crossovers.jpg)
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B&W Matrix 802 crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/B&W-Matrix-802-crossover.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/B&W-Matrix-802-crossover.jpg)
Made in 1988 -> electrolytics should not be in their best condition.
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Danny, I've got a pair of Acoustic Research AR M1s (the $300 speakers that Mark Levinson used to use to demonstrate his Cello electronics) that have a simple first-order (cap and resistor) crossover on the tweeter and nothing on the woofer. With your help, I've already upgraded the cap to a Sonicap, do you think there's any value in going further with these? I'm not averse to shipping them to you, and they were generally regarded as punching above their weight class, but I don't know how quickly you think we'd run into diminishing returns.
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Danny, I've got a pair of Acoustic Research AR M1s (the $300 speakers that Mark Levinson used to use to demonstrate his Cello electronics) that have a simple first-order (cap and resistor) crossover on the tweeter and nothing on the woofer. With your help, I've already upgraded the cap to a Sonicap, do you think there's any value in going further with these? I'm not averse to shipping them to you, and they were generally regarded as punching above their weight class, but I don't know how quickly you think we'd run into diminishing returns.
I have no doubt that I can do a lot with them and take them up a level or two in performance. With shipping each way plus crossover parts you'd spend $250 to $300 pretty easily.
You're call...
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I need to replace the dustcaps, as they seem to have degraded over time, and then I'll give them another listen and make a decision. There are so few sealed 2 way designs out there that I'm somewhat inclined to really blow these out of the water and have something truly unique. Since I bought them for $30 off Craigslist it would't be the end of the world to pay $300 total for something really special-sounding.
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These ones would be fun to have your services performance on. Plus they are already wired to have an external crossover; a tweaker's dream.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179310)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179311)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179312)
Tweeter is scan-speak D2008/8512-00 3/4" Textile Dome and woofer is 5 1/2" Vifa woofer. TL enclosure tuned to ~35 Hz or so.
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I had no plans to upload more images of crossovers but I could not resist seeing them on expensive Danish speakers. $3,299 / €2,599 / £1,999
Dali Opticon 8 crossover
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/307551-dali-opticon-8-crossovers-upgrade-help.html
Optimized by me:
[Scheme] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Dali-Opticon-8-crossover-scheme.jpg
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Dali-Opticon-8-crossover-1.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Dali-Opticon-8-crossover-1.jpg)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Dali-Opticon-8-crossover-2.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Dali-Opticon-8-crossover-2.jpg)
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These ones would be fun to have your services performance on. Plus they are already wired to have an external crossover; a tweaker's dream.
I'm upgraded quite a few of those Sililoquy's over the years. I think three different models. Some of them measured pretty rough.
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Matty, you sure have a way of finding the ones that look embarrassing inside.
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Maty, you sure have a way of finding the ones that look embarrassing inside.
KEF Q750, again.
[German] https://www.hifitest.de/test/lautsprecher_surround/kef-q750_atmos-set_15812
-> https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/lautsprecher_surround/kef-q750_atmos-set_15812/11
[Big IMG] https://www.hifitest.de/images/testbilder/big/kef-q750-atmos-set-lautsprecher-surround-47582.jpg
[Big IMG] https://www.hifitest.de/images/testbilder/big/kef-q750-atmos-set-lautsprecher-surround-47583.jpg
Hans Wetzel wrote:
https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/856-kef-q750-loudspeakers
Conclusion
KEF’s Q750 is a superb loudspeaker. It’s one of the most neutral transducers I’ve ever heard, and for the money offers staggeringly transparent sound. I fed it a steady diet of male and female singer-songwriters, and was always satisfied with the authenticity of what I heard. It’s not exactly a looker, but it’s well engineered, and sounds far more expensive than its price suggests. If I had $1500 to spend on speakers, this is what I’d buy. I’m not sure I can pay KEF’s Q750 a higher compliment.
If you do not consider the valley at 1.2 khz, I say.
I hope that a crossover redesign will solve it. What do you think?
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I'm sure there is a lot that can be done with those in a number of areas.
Send a pair over and I'll let you know.
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Well, you know, I live in Tarragona (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarragona) (Spain, EU).
Every time I have more clear that we can not trust reviews where there are no measurements. And with the other audio hardware too.
They need more mass at the furniture as mine little KEF Q100 (it was a substantial improvement) of my second audio system.
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Just now I have send an e-mail to Hans Wetzel, with this link.
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Hans has confirmed and will respond in the coming days in SoundStage! Access. I have told him that I think that small valley is intentional, looking for a frequency response in soft "V".
Maybe the answer will be here:
https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/feedback
Btw, SoundStage! Access | SoundStageAccess.com (GoodSound.com) - KEF: Q350, Q750, or R500? (http://"https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/feedback/942-kef-q350-q750-or-r500")
Regarding your question about the R500, you might have noted that I compared the Q750 to the larger R700 in my review. If the R500 is priced similarly to the Q750 in Sweden, I would spring for the R500 every day of the week. While the R500 won’t be dramatically more resolving than your Q350, you should still hear more low-level detail through the R-series model. Furthermore, the R500 is a true three-way design, which should produce deeper and more robust bass. Finally, the R500 is, to my eyes, a far better-looking speaker than any Q model, with a more solid and inert cabinet. The cumulative improvements over your Q350 should be significant. . . . Hans Wetzel
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Hans has confirmed and will respond in the coming days in SoundStage! Access. I have told him that I think that small valley is intentional, looking for a frequency response in soft "V".
Maybe the answer will be here:
https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/feedback
Btw, SoundStage! Access | SoundStageAccess.com (GoodSound.com) - KEF: Q350, Q750, or R500? (http://"https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/feedback/942-kef-q350-q750-or-r500")
It could be intentional. There could have been some break up or stored energy there being suppressed, or there could be a peak in the horizontal or vertical off axis that is being compensated for.
I'd be more concerned about the quality of the crossover parts, wiring, binding posts, and cabinet resonances.
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Maybe you are right. Why?
The old KEF Q900
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-q900-loudspeaker-measurements
(https://www.stereophile.com/images/911KEFfig4.jpg)
(https://www.stereophile.com/images/911KEFfig9.jpg)
but the coaxial is 8" and not 5.25". The good KEF coaxial is the 5.25", not the 6.5" or 8".
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-q900-loudspeaker-specifications
Description: Two-and-a-half-way floorstanding loudspeaker.
Drive-units (all aluminum): Uni-Q (coaxial) with 1.5" vented dome tweeter and 8" midrange unit, 8" woofer, two 8" passive radiators.
Crossover frequency: 1.8kHz. Frequency response: 32Hz–40kHz, ±3dB. Impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 91dB/2.83V/m. Maximum output: 114dB. Amplification: 15–200W.
Every time I have more clear that the best thing is a good pair of monitors with the most flat response and one or two subwoofers (with adjustable phase). As long as they leave you at home ...
And, if the room is equalized, only f < 200 Hz.
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Hans Wetzel answered:
KEF Q750: Not So Neutral?
https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/feedback/951-kef-q750-not-so-neutral (https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/feedback/951-kef-q750-not-so-neutral)
[ To Hans Wetzel,
Hi from Tarragona, Spain. You wrote [in your KEF Q750 review (https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/856-kef-q750-loudspeakers)]: “KEF’s Q750 is a superb loudspeaker. It’s one of the most neutral transducers I’ve ever heard, and for the money offers staggeringly transparent sound” [emphasis added]. But [per the measurements from www.hifitest.de (http://www.hifitest.de/)‘s review, here (https://www.hifitest.de/images/testbilder/big/kef-q750-atmos-set-lautsprecher-surround-47582.jpg) and here (https://www.hifitest.de/images/testbilder/big/kef-q750-atmos-set-lautsprecher-surround-47583.jpg)], I can see a valley at 1.2kHz. I have commented about this issue in GR Research (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156605.msg1726942#msg1726942), and in DIYAudio (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/324975-kef-r300-playground-measurements-raw-drivers-5.html#post5685656), too. I think it is intentional, [with KEF] looking for a soft “V” response.
Maty
Spain ]
The measurements you link to do, indeed, note a roughly -3dB dip around 1.2kHz. Since you seem to be measurement-oriented, it’s worth exploring what we’re looking at. Let’s focus on the frequency-response graph (https://www.hifitest.de/images/testbilder/big/kef-q750-atmos-set-lautsprecher-surround-47582.jpg). Are these measurements taken in-room, or in an anechoic chamber? Are the three curves on-axis, 15 degrees off-axis, and 30 degrees off-axis, or something else? Was it measured at 1m, 2m, or some other distance? Without any offered methodology to accompany the graph, you’re extrapolating an awful lot from three curves. That is one very narrow snapshot that is certainly better than nothing, but doesn’t offer anywhere near a complete picture of how the Q750 might sound in your average room.
Take a look at some of our measurements on www.speakermeasurements.com (http://www.speakermeasurements.com/), which we perform in an anechoic chamber at Canada’s National Research Council, where some of the early hi-fi pioneers did their acoustic research, including Dr. Floyd Toole (of Harman International), who quite literally wrote the book on modern loudspeaker design (see below). I’ll point you to the measurements of Revel’s Performa3 F206 (https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1238:nrc-measurements-revel-performa3-f206-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153) loudspeaker. Numerous writers on our staff agree that the Revel (which is a division of the aforementioned Harman International) F206 is the most neutral loudspeaker at its $3500 USD price point, and its measurements are about as “textbook” as you can get for that kind of money, as evidenced by the “Listening Window,” which averages five measurements into one neat plot that is both commendably smooth and flat, with a 2-3dB tilt from left to right. There is nothing amiss between 1kHz-1.5kHz. Chart A, however, which includes on-axis, 15-degree off-axis, and 30-degree off-axis curves, shows a “valley” centered at around 1.2kHz–1.3kHz; surely not neutral!
Hi-fi measurements, like everything else in life, must be placed in context. If you were to only hear direct sound from the Revel, then a deviation like that “valley” would surely be problematic. But we don’t hear like that. What our ears hear is a combination of direct sound from the speaker drivers, along with a variety of reflections that arrive at our ears at slightly different times, which our mind interpolates into something recognizable. The takeaway is that on-axis and near-on-axis measurements like the ones you mentioned in your e-mail only paint part of the picture and have the potential to be misleading if taken in isolation. I’d encourage you to take a look at some of our other measurements, which includes several KEF models. I’ll note that the Q750 is a two-and-a-half-way design that uses passive radiators in lieu of a bass-reflex port (or two). These kind of fundamental design choices may well have contributed to idiosyncrasies in the Q750’s frequency response curve that wouldn’t appear in a two-way or three-way bass-reflex design.
We try to measure as many speakers as we can, but with writers all over North America, shipping large speakers often proves expensive and impractical, so it’s not always possible. Just so you know, I actually wanted the Q750 measured, but we couldn’t make it work logistically -- sorry about that.
To answer your question above in a terribly longwinded fashion, yes, I think KEF purposely designed the Q750 to have the “valley” around 1.2kHz in its on-axis and near-off-axis frequency response curves. I am confident, however, that KEF did not intend for that to be audible, in-room, at the listening position. I suspect that if we were to run our usual battery of measurements on the Q750, the “Listening Window” plot would bear that out, and also confirm my subjective listening impressions.
I recommend Dr. Floyd Toole’s book, Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms. I think you’ll find it highly educational. . . . Hans Wetzel
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Only $ 4000.
Revel Performa M126Be
https://www.revelspeakers.com/products/types/bookshelf/M126BE-.html?dwvar_M126BE-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current
Waveguide with expensive 1" beryllium dome tweeter, 54-44,000 Hz (-6dB) and the crossover...
http://revel.harman-japan.co.jp/product.php?id=be
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Revel-Performa-M126Be-crossover.jpg)
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Only $ 4000.
Revel Performa M126Be
https://www.revelspeakers.com/products/types/bookshelf/M126BE-.html?dwvar_M126BE-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current
Waveguide with expensive 1" beryllium dome tweeter, 54-44,000 Hz (-6dB) and the crossover...
http://revel.harman-japan.co.jp/product.php?id=be
This is why I have DIY speakers. Those speakers have a high end price without the high end sound. I don't need to hear them to know they don't sound great because the crossover is junk.
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This is why I have DIY speakers. Those speakers have a high end price without the high end sound. I don't need to hear them to know they don't sound great because the crossover is junk.
You are correct.
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PS Audio AN-3 loudspeaker, crossover
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165822.msg1765045#msg1765045
-> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/04/11/ps-audio-an-3-sneak-peek-axpona-2019/
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/PS-Audio-AN-3-crossover.jpg)
Stereophile says: $11,500–$14,500/pair.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-debuts-an3-loudspeaker
The AN3 features a servo-corrected 12" aluminum-cone woofer, driven by a 700W amplifier mounted on one of the sides, with a folded ribbon tweeter, a rectangular planar midrange unit sourced from Bohlender-Graebener, and an 8" cone "mid-bass coupler," the last a consistent feature of Nudell's designs for Infinity and Genesis...
I guess it is the prototype but ...
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PS Audio AN-3 loudspeaker, crossover
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165822.msg1765045#msg1765045
-> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/04/11/ps-audio-an-3-sneak-peek-axpona-2019/
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/PS-Audio-AN-3-crossover.jpg)
Stereophile says: $11,500–$14,500/pair.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-debuts-an3-loudspeaker
I guess it is the prototype but ...
The arrangement of the three way section reminds me of philharmonic audio Dennis did with his 3.
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KEF R900
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/344527-kef-r900-crossover-upgrade.html
Optimized pictures:
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-R900-Filtre-HF-0b.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-R900-Filtre-HF-0b.jpg)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-R900-Filtre-LF-0c.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-R900-Filtre-LF-0c.jpg)
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About the crossover elements like the capacitors, resistors, coils, wires, speaker connectors... this week: is DIY Audio REALLY worth it?
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Tech-Talk-Danny-Richie-is-DIY-Audio-REALLY-worth-it.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yozUh8xBfk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yozUh8xBfk
PS: the speaker inside the carton box and the crossover elements (upper quality): X-LS Encore kit
http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx
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-> X-LS Flat Pack Update and a Fish too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qyLOjH3s5s
Peter Rawlings videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0JRqE7rQT0g3SutYuBWBsg/videos
Five videos about X-LS, CNC.
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I have Kef Q900 in my home theatre.. and they just don't compare to my dennis murphy New Philharmonitor bookshelf speakers with raal 64-10 and scanspeak revelator 5.5" I use in my computer near field setup.. I just opened up the q900 and the crossover is exactly like in the picture you posted.. only 4 components..
the binding post system seems the opposite of the low mass is better approach..
do you think it's worth upgrading the crossover components and hookup wire or would I be better off building dennis murphys BMR 3 way bookshelf kit that meniscus is offering now?
the kef has the virtue of being the absolute biggest speaker I can fit in my home theatre.. but it's too big to ship to for measurement from my home in hawaii :( Would love your opinion
oh I use the q900's in a 2.1 setup in my home theatre with a large XTZ 3x12" ported subwoofer.. I cross it over at 80hz
forgot to add the pictures
(https://i.imgur.com/mZltLaYh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RkQ57g3h.jpg)
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After watching the last video I decided that I will finally change the capacitors and resistors of my modded KEF Q100. Step by step to verify the changes, spending 85 euros (at home) in two EU shops. Two 1st order filters -> few components -> economic audiophile update!
Jantzen Superior Z-cap, Miflex KPCU (bypass, changing the added styroflex) and Mills resistors. First the bypass caps. After a while, the resistors and capacitors with the Miflex KPCU already burned in bypass.
The biggest improvement was mass addiction. Now they weigh more than the KEF LS50. I advise you to be the first thing you do if you want to spend some money.
PS: in Europe there are no Sonicaps -> Jantzen Superior Z-cap.
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Thanks maty. I was hoping you’d reply. By mass addition you mean lining the cabinet with norez or other dampeners like rock wool? Did you upgrade your crossovers yet or still just making plans? Any idea how to get the old crossover off the plastic pins?
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With a viscoelastic material: Tecsound SY70.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/video-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/post-222794
[Spanish PDF] https://lotus.soprema.fr/www/reftechsop.nsf/($AllByUNID)/234C57F05BE834EDC12582AC00472B0B/$File/FT_INSSP002.b.ES_TECSOUND%20SY.pdf (https://lotus.soprema.fr/www/reftechsop.nsf/($AllByUNID)/234C57F05BE834EDC12582AC00472B0B/$File/FT_INSSP002.b.ES_TECSOUND%20SY.pdf)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscoelasticity
Old picture, from other speakers.
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-denon-panel-fibra-tecsoundx2-quilosa.jpg)
A good sandwich: Tecsound SY70 + acrylic + Tecsound SY70 + acrylic + fiberglass.
I made the decision, I looked for the components, the best prices and the methodology.
I will buy in a store the Milfix and the Mill. In another the Jantzen. Cheaper than the three components in the first, two shipments includes!
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I like your idea of doubling layers of damping material with a rubbery sealant in between.. what made you choose acrylic sealant over silicone? I see silicone recommended a lot
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One thing I've learned about crossover upgrades -- don't put a wig on a pig. Ya dig? 8)
Cheaply made speakers often aren't worth the time and money to upgrade. Start with a strong foundation -- good speakers that can be made into great speakers.
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thanks Early B. yeah after some reflection I think I might just try adding viscoelastic damping near the uni-q tweeter/midwoofer. and fixing the binding post wiring
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I like your idea of doubling layers of damping material with a rubbery sealant in between.. what made you choose acrylic sealant over silicone? I see silicone recommended a lot
When I bought the heavy Tecsound roll 40 Kg? in a warehouse specialized in soundproofing of buildings in Tarragona (La Canonja) I asked and they recommended the cheap acrylic sealant, which does not react with fiberglass or rock wool.
When sound waves pass through different materials of different density they are much more muffled -> sandwich.
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just priced out enough dynamat to line the inside of my kef q900. I think I should just build gr research super mini instead hehe
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I think the roll cost me, years ago, only € 38. You know, warehouse, without retailer margin :)
You can search US equivalent. Building insulation.
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Thanks maty. I was hoping you’d reply. By mass addition you mean lining the cabinet with norez or other dampeners like rock wool? Did you upgrade your crossovers yet or still just making plans? Any idea how to get the old crossover off the plastic pins?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-deals-massdrop-ebay-amazon-etc-thread-on-audio-product-sales.3118/post-265263
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To finish about dampening the loudspeakers if you build them and yo do not want to spend a lot of money with expensive/commercial viscoelastic materials:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/345074-mdf-plywood-speaker-cabinets-post5975306.html
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https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/345074-mdf-plywood-speaker-cabinets-post5977153.html
Harbeth loudspeaker, inside
crossover
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Harbeth-crossover.jpg)
At least there are not electrolytics!
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If I'm seeking to purchase a particular audio component and don't find pics of the guts, I won't consider it. I need to see what my money is buying.
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I feel the same way now. But I know more about amps than crossovers and cabinets.. now I know to look for bracing, damping and better crossover design and parts :(
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I have a pair of new Triangle Borea BR03 bookshelf speakers that were strongly recommended by Sean of Zero Fidelity on you tube. In his review Sean indicated that these speakers would probably benefit from a crossover upgrade and cabinet reinforcement. These speakers are about the same price level as the Klipsch RP600M, to give you a reference frame. I live in the Woodlands TX, so it would be possible for me to bring the speakers to you for measurement and possible magic. How would I go about this? The speakers are 2-way, with celulose woofer/midrange driver and a silk dome tweeter.
Bob D.
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I have a pair of new Triangle Borea BR03 bookshelf speakers that were strongly recommended by Sean of Zero Fidelity on you tube. In his review Sean indicated that these speakers would probably benefit from a crossover upgrade and cabinet reinforcement. These speakers are about the same price level as the Klipsch RP600M, to give you a reference frame. I live in the Woodlands TX, so it would be possible for me to bring the speakers to you for measurement and possible magic. How would I go about this? The speakers are 2-way, with celulose woofer/midrange driver and a silk dome tweeter.
Bob D.
Hey Bob, Just give me some heads up and drive them up. We'll take some measurements and see what's going on and then figure out the best plan.
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Hey Bob, Just give me some heads up and drive them up. We'll take some measurements and see what's going on and then figure out the best plan.
Hey Bob, Just give me some heads up and drive them up. We'll take some measurements and see what's going on and then figure out the best plan.
Did anything happen with this? I’ve had a pair of the BRO3’s for a week now and am enjoying them quite a lot. Elac Debut Reference DBR62 and JBL Studio 530’s were in my hands recently and I sent the Elacs back and sold the JBL’s once I heard the Triangles. If there’s more performance there to be extracted, I’d sure be interested in pursuing that.
Michael
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Did anything happen with this? I’ve had a pair of the BRO3’s for a week now and am enjoying them quite a lot. Elac Debut Reference DBR62 and JBL Studio 530’s were in my hands recently and I sent the Elacs back and sold the JBL’s once I heard the Triangles. If there’s more performance there to be extracted, I’d sure be interested in pursuing that.
Michael
I never heard from Bob.
But I will be glad to take a look at them.
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I never heard from Bob.
But I will be glad to take a look at them.
Ok. Let me enjoy them for a while and then I’ll get them to you. I’m in Arlington, so I’ll try to set a weekend day aside for a day trip.