Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???

Early B. · « **on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:03 am »

Class D has arrived!!!

It appears as though Class D amps are now being compared to some of the best solid state amps without apology. No more can the snobby audiophile discount the reality that Class D technology has improved dramatically over the years. Some have already kicked their 75 lb. amps to the curb in favor of a 3 lb. amp with more balls and gusto than the manliest of amps. Low cost. Superb sound. Small. No heat. High spousal approval.

Years ago, we ditched our boom boxes for Ipods. Are we now prepared to rush towards replacing our beastly power amps with Class D amps?

Don_S · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:10 am »

Do you really want to start this debate all over again.

I guess 17 posts before it hits the Intergalactic Waste Bin.

Early B. · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 03:18 am »

Quote from: Don_S on 11 Mar 2018, 01:10 am

Do you really want to start this debate all over again.

This isn't a debate about whether Class D is superior to A or A/B or tubes or whatever. So let me clarify --

The last "revolution" in amplifier technology occurred several decades ago when transistor-based amps flooded the market. One could argue that all innovations in SS design since that time have been derivations on the same theme. Today, technology is creating smallness. In the amp world, these innovations have come in the form of Class D. So the question is -- will we see a significant proliferation of Class D amps over the next 5 - 10 years wherein the monstrous amps become dinosaurs (not because they're not as good as Class D, but due to being considered as too big and heavy).

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 03:19 am »

Time and progress do not sit still. The 21st century has arrived and Class D has matured. I've owned my share share of tube amps (mostly SETs - 300b, 2A3 etc.) and I'm not looking back. Today's Class D reveals more timber, tone and truth with the stability and power to drive the best speakers.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 03:23 am »

Quote from: Early B. on 11 Mar 2018, 03:18 am

So the question is -- will we see a significant proliferation of Class D amps over the next 5 - 10 years wherein the monstrous amps become dinosaurs (not because they're not as good as Class D, but due to being considered as too big and heavy).

Absolutely! But I'll go a step further, in terms of musical purity I think the best Class D has already surpassed the best tube and conventional SS amps.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 03:35 am »

Quote from: Early B. on 11 Mar 2018, 03:18 am

This isn't a debate about whether Class D is superior to A or A/B or tubes or whatever. So let me clarify --

The last "revolution" in amplifier technology occurred several decades ago when transistor-based amps flooded the market. One could argue that all innovations in SS design since that time have been derivations on the same theme. Today, technology is creating smallness. In the amp world, these innovations have come in the form of Class D. So the question is -- will we see a significant proliferation of Class D amps over the next 5 - 10 years wherein the monstrous amps become dinosaurs (not because they're not as good as Class D, but due to being considered as too big and heavy).

Yes. Convenience and low cost always win in market share. Transistors took over because people were tired of replacing tubes and other components that 'baked' out of spec over time. Regardless of one's view of the tube-vs-SS debate, there are other advantages one could claim for SS, but I think the main one was convenience and compactness. Today, 'smart' speakers are growing market share by leaps and bounds while traditional 'hi-fi/high end' is becoming a fringe pursuit despite the fact that even a modest vintage system provides a dramatically better listening experience. Again, the deciding factor is convenience (and cost of entry in 2nd place) IMO.

JohnR · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 03:51 am »

Class D amplifiers were invented in 1958 and are already "everywhere." The improvement in sound quality is basically just the inevitable march of progress, I guess I don't really see where there's a "revolution".

Early B. · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 05:38 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 11 Mar 2018, 03:51 am

Class D amplifiers were invented in 1958 and are already "everywhere." The improvement in sound quality is basically just the inevitable march of progress, I guess I don't really see where there's a "revolution".

An audiophile who can replace an 80 lb. amp with a comparable one that he can stick in his shirt pocket is "revolutionary" to me. That didn't happen in 1958, but it's now possible in 2018.

I think we're at the tipping point, not just with smaller gear, but with integration. Audiophiles say separates sound best. Soon, integration will be the big thing, and it's partially driven by the ability to shrink down the amp size to almost nothing.

JLM · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:05 pm »

Audiophiles are some of the last to admit to change occurring. I'm on my 2nd Class D. My current Temple Audio mono-blocks are smaller, cheaper, and sound better than the 10 year old ones they replaced. Just evolution in design. Be flexible or cease to exist.

twitch54 · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:06 pm »

Having listen to this 'Rogue' driving a pair of electrostatic Logan's I'd say Class D has come of age.......... quite impressive !

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Medusa.htm

OzarkTom · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:15 pm »

Just like digital vs. analog, there will always be ss. vs. tube.

twitch54 · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:26 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 11 Mar 2018, 01:15 pm

Just like digital vs. analog, there will always be ss. vs. tube.

actually, for the most part this is a 'SS vs. SS' discussion / debate.

Roninaudio · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:26 pm »

Agreed on tubes- there will always be a following. I am intriqrigued regarding hybrids. I have owned Class D throught the years and a few stunk quite frankly. However my current mono blocks have stifled my urge to go back to A/B or anything else quite frankly. Definite design improvement. Not sure it's a revolution but dang sure an improvement on a established design = a viable option in anyone's system I think.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-stellar-m700-monoblock-power-amplifier

bacobits1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 01:28 pm »

ICE is getting deep..........

Freo-1 · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 02:07 pm »

Revolution...no. Evolution....yes.

The class D approach has evolved over the years to the point where it competes well with other amp designs. Take Devialet for example: they have pushed the class D technology level to a point where it is among the absolute best among audio reproduction.

Still, there is a subset of audiophiles who are also hobbyists, where convenience takes a back seat to other aspects of the hobby. Friends of mine who are also musicians prefer the sound from the custom hand made tube amps I have to any SS gear. They feel that the tube amps just sound more like real live music. I use both tube and SS setups, and enjoy both for what each setup does well.

As a hobbyist, I don't mind having to change out power tubes every couple of years to maintain top performance. I certainly can relate to folks who prefer a lightweight care free gear approach to enjoy music.

Horses for courses.

opnly bafld · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 02:16 pm »

Quote from: Freo-1 on 11 Mar 2018, 02:07 pm

Revolution...no. Evolution....yes.

The class D approach has evolved over the years to the point where it competes well with other amp designs. Take Devialet for example: they have pushed the class D technology level to a point where it is among the absolute best among audio reproduction.

Still, there is a subset of audiophiles who are also hobbyists, where convenience takes a back seat to other aspects of the hobby. Friends of mine who are also musicians prefer the sound from the custom hand made tube amps I have to any SS gear. They feel that the tube amps just sound more like real live music. I use both tube and SS setups, and enjoy both for what each setup does well.

As a hobbyist, I don't mind having to change out power tubes every couple of years to maintain top performance. I certainly can relate to folks who prefer a lightweight care free gear approach to enjoy music.

Horses for courses.

+1

twitch54 · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: opnly bafld on 11 Mar 2018, 02:16 pm

+1

+2 .....

RDavidson · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 03:49 pm »

Quote from: twitch54 on 11 Mar 2018, 02:46 pm

+2 .....

+3

Funny thing. I'm actually looking at giving up my Class A integrated amp to go to a less expensive Class D amp in my AV system, entirely due to practicality and the fact that Class D has become a truly worthy option. I don't expect the Class D amp to be better than my Class A amp, BUT I think it'll be a much better "every day driver" for the family room. However, as Freo points out, my separate music system (hobbyist setup), will likely always have less convenient / less practical gear in it. It's just the nature of the beast. I really don't see this ever changing, but I won't say "never."

Don_S · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: Early B. on 11 Mar 2018, 05:38 am

An audiophile who can replace an 80 lb. amp with a comparable one that he can stick in his shirt pocket is "revolutionary" to me. That didn't happen in 1958, but it's now possible in 2018.

I think we're at the tipping point, not just with smaller gear, but with integration. Audiophiles say separates sound best. Soon, integration will be the big thing, and it's partially driven by the ability to shrink down the amp size to almost nothing.

Early B, I am not quite with you on the "shirt pocket size" but I fully agree with the weight and size loss both helping separates and integrated units. And it is not just talk. I recently sold one 50+lb amplifier and will soon sell another one. I have already purchased two integrated units that are A/B but lighter and more compact.

So far the two (expensive) straight Class-D amps I have tried in my system were unimpressive. But I have hopes for the future. I have another Class D amplifier on order. I will find out if it "sticks" or not.

Audiophiles are "graying" and I expect others will feel the need to lose weight in their systems.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 04:12 pm »

I agree with Freo as well... I remember D amps coming out many years ago and people going crazy over them, they've been saying the same thing for many years. While most of the claims are hyperbnole, I think it is true that class D has improved by leaps and bounds over the years.