Rm40 to HT3

MikeyMouse · « **on:** 7 Feb 2007, 05:32 pm »

Hi All,

I have been auditioning my next speakers. I have used the Apogee Divas and really like their large and open sound field, but they are just too big for my current room. Currently, the VMPS RM40 is on the top of my list. I really like their mid-range and wide dynamic range. They have some similar characteristics of the Divas. If I have the opportunity, I want to listen to the HT3 (I live near Boston, MA). I understand some of you owned the RM40 before the HT3. Can you tell me the areas that like the HT3 better. Thanks for your comments.

-Mike

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 05:54 pm »

Mike, I won't comment (anymore) on the differences between the 2 speakers. You should listen for yourself and get the one you like best.

I have had the HT3's for 1.5 years and have never regretted it. I had the RM40's for 2 years and enjoyed them as well.

If you do a search here you will find plenty of threads.

ctviggen · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 06:15 pm »

One benefit to the Salks is that they're smaller. The RM40s are pretty big. When you listened to the RM40s, did they have the new wave guide? I haven't installed mine on my RM40s, but the wave guide seems to have helped my RM30 center channel. The center seems smoother (unless that's just my memory talking). I don't think you could go wrong with either speaker.

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 06:33 pm »

Mike,

I live just outside of Boston and have a pair of stock HT3's. I also previously owned RM 40's and have no regrets going with the HT3's. If you do a search here on AC, you will see many comments on the RM 40 / HT3 comparison.

While the RM 40's are a good speaker, I honestly can't think of any one area where I prefer it to the HT3's. This is simply one man's opinion and should be taken in that context. I am sure there are others out there would agree and disagree.

One other note, it took a pair of $20k speakers (Vandersteen 5A's) to displace the HT3's in my main system.

George

MikeyMouse · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Feb 2007, 12:21 pm »

The person that let me audition his RM40s preferred his speakers without the new waveguides (although he has them around). Even without the waveguides, they sounded great. I can describe it in one word - musical. All instruments came through very cleanly and realistically. I especially like the sound of the piano, the cello and the bass reproduced by the RM40s. The sound of mass string and brass is the best I have heard. They reminded me some of my listening experience at the Symphony Hall.

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Feb 2007, 03:02 pm »

I think I know who's you listened to. The primary gain from CDWG is the widening of sweet spot. I can see where the Neos can really shine without the WG right at the sweet spot, but it's a small spot. Overall, I think you gain more with the CDWG then lose even if the midrange is your thing. I noticed an increase in soundstage depth with the guides.

ctviggen · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Feb 2007, 04:01 pm »

Mike,

If you have a chance, you should go hear George's system. George tries out tons of stuff and keeps the best stuff (to his ears), so you're going to hear an excellent system that'll show you what the Salks can do. If you're ever in CT, feel free to come hear my RM40s, although my system pales in comparison to George's.

warnerwh · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 05:59 am »

A new HT 3 owner has invited me to his home to hear his Salks. We met when he came over to hear the Fetvalve amp I'm using with my RM 40's. With all the praise of the Salks I'm looking very forward to hearing them, and seeing them too.

He just told me a few minutes ago he loves the Fetvalve hybrid amp with his Salks so that worked out well for him. Just thought I'd bring that up because I saw a thread about people liking the Moscode with the Salks. For those people who can't afford the Moscode the Fetvalve amp is probably a good option. I know it's a mainstay driving the mid/treble of my RM 40's so I'm pretty happy with it.

I'm sure the two speakers sound different but I'm also sure the Salks sound outstanding for the money too. Speakers are a very personal choice. If you can hear the Salks you should before making a decision because none of us can tell you what you'd like best.

You're fortunate you can have either one. Most people can't afford the kind of money we spend around here on our systems. With either choice I'm sure you'd be very happy with your purchase. Listening yourself is the best test though.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 06:40 am »

Personally I think you would be nuts to sell the Divas for the RM40. I did exactly that about five years ago after a lot of prodding by my wife, and trust me I regretted that decision the entire time I had the RM40s and subsequently the RMX. Not until I spent bank on my current speakers was I able to get the Divas out of my mind.

While I have not heard them, everyone seems to think very highly of the HT3 and they are definitely beautiful. Also Salk seems to know and understand quality control. But excellent though they may be, I really doubt they can match or surpass the Divas given that they are a three way box speaker with ported woofer.

The Divas can go almost right up to the side walls and only need about 3' from the front wall. Because of their imposing stature they look like they need a lot of space, but they really do not. I had them in a 13' x 15' bedroom at one point and they sounded fine. Don't let the age of the Divas sway you into thinking newer is better. If Apogee made the Diva/DAX today it would cost (and be worth) at least $25k. Replacement parts were a concern for a while and were a factor in my decision to part with them. But they have been readily available from Graz in Australia for a while now.

Only the DAX and/or passive crossover suffers because of age. If funds allow, replacement or upgrade of the crossover is very worthwhile. Divas are an ideal platform for multi-amping with TacT or DEQX, particularly since the speakers will benefit from fine control of delay to each driver group. Like the Salk speakers, the big Apogees need a lot of power. In the past this meant big, hot Krell monoblocks or similar. These days fairly inexpensive and efficient class D designs make a nice match. The RM40s and HT3 have high sensitivity ribbon tweeters, but both have to be vastly padded down to match output with the bass systems. The 6' true ribbon tweeter of the Diva is exceptional and matches well to the midrange ribbon and planar bass panel.

If your mind is already made up please contact me as I potentially would be interested in taking the Divas off your hands

Jon L · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 06:54 am »

Quote from: MikeyMouse on 7 Feb 2007, 05:32 pm

Hi All,

I have been auditioning my next speakers. I have used the Apogee Divas and really like their large and open sound field, but they are just too big for my current room. Currently, the VMPS RM40 is on the top of my list. I really like their mid-range and wide dynamic range. They have some similar characteristics of the Divas. If I have the opportunity, I want to listen to the HT3 (I live near Boston, MA). I understand some of you owned the RM40 before the HT3. Can you tell me the areas that like the HT3 better. Thanks for your comments.

-Mike

If you still have the Divas, keep them. You'd be CRAZY to let them go. Get as much pure class-A SS power as you can afford, then double them up

DMurphy · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 03:44 pm »

"Not until I spent the bank on my current speakers was I able to get the Divas out of my mind."

So--what speakers are you running now?

Christof · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 04:26 pm »

DMurphy · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 05:11 pm »

I had to ask.

ctviggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 05:20 pm »

I don't think there are enough drivers on there!

I think part of this is also open baffle, which can create an expansiveness in certain rooms (not too damped).

Double Ugly · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 05:44 pm »

I had the privilege of listening to Eric's system a while back, before he had the full compliment of modified TacT gear he's using now.

It is something special, no doubt about that. I'd love to hear how it has morphed since.

-Jim

MikeyMouse · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 08:24 pm »

The Apogee Divas are wonderful speakers. My DAX'ed Apogee Divas have been occupying a space in my listening room since I took delivery of the speakers directly from the Apogee factory in Randolph, MA, a short distance from my home. I have used some very good Krell and Levinson amplifiers to feed them. I love everything about the speakers except for two things. In addition to their monstrous size, I am tired of listening to the same speakers for over 15 years. I just want to try a different pair of speakers for a change. As you said, it will be a challenge to find a new pair to match the performance of the Divas, however at this point I am willing to take a compromise provided the new speakers are musical and have good dynamic to handle large scale symphonic music. The RM40s seemed to have those characteristcs when I listened to them in a fellow audiophile's home.

I will not get the Salk HT3s or any other speakers until I have a chance to audition them.

-Mike

flintstone · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Feb 2007, 09:52 pm »

I've never listened to the Salk speakers, although the builder seems to be located only a few miles away.... (I just found that out the other day). I've listened to the VMPS many times at my local dealer. I also own an older VMPS based hometheater system...kicks butt. You could say...I like VMPS speakers a lot.

That said, I would not trade my Apogee Duetta signatures for a pair of RM-40's...it's no contest. I also listened to the huge VMPS RMX's a few times...I like my Apogees with subs better, (VMPS subs BTW).

I can't say for sure of course (because I've never even listened to them)...but, I don't see anything about the Salk speakers design that makes me think that they would sway me away from my Apogees...I could be wrong here?

The Divas will sell fast if in top shape, and I do understand your setup issues with the huge Divas...you may want to visit the (Apogee speaker users forum) for a buyer.

Good luck,

Dave

ekovalsky · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Feb 2007, 04:58 am »

The Alon/Nola sounded good when set up with the manufacturer's instructions. But they really started to shine once I eliminated the passive crossover boxes and the ancient Dahlquish active crossover. Again, a case of a great speaker held back by electronics. My pair (bought used at 25% current MSRP) is the version 2. Subsequently there have been revisions to 2A, 3, and now 4. Each time there are changes to the crossover, i.e. replacement of coils and caps and with version 3 the additional of an anti-resonant platform for the passive crossover boxes. Price for each upgrade has ranged from $1000-4000. Version 4 introduced new midrange drivers at a cost of $8000, including a jig to modify the cabinet to fit them. I am not at all certain they are a true upgrade, but rather a new source which may be less expensive or easier to obtain. Needless to say keeping the speakers up to date would have cost me a fortune; money was much better spent on upgrades to my TacT gear and more channels of amplification! HP on the other hand gets every upgrade that becomes available, but of course he probably isn't paying for them out of pocket.

MikeyMouse,

I understand about trying something new. But you have transducers that are true gems. The electronics (DAX and passive boxes) are outdated. I wish you could here what the Divas could do with a DSP tri-amp setup, using steep crossovers with a dedicated amp on each driver and perhaps most importantly proper time alignment. Room correction would be a freebie and would certainly be beneficial in the low frequencies, although properly set up dipoles require much less correction than other types. Although the Divas have strong deep bass, they do benefit from a subwoofer IF AND ONLY IF the bottom two octaves are filtered from the full range signal thus freeing the Diva bass panel from large excursions. I formerly had a pair of Muse18 subs with personality cards designed for the Divas, before more sophisticated DSP options were available.

In case your primary audio source is redbook, a TacT RCS 2.2X with three S2150 would be ideal, each amp could be safely connected directly to the speaker (bypassing the passive boxes and eliminating the DAX). The Lyngdorf TDAI2200, reviewed in the current TAS, has the same amplifier design as the TacT amps just different DSP to not infringe on Boz's patents. With a digital signal these amps approach the quality of the best analog designs. With fairly inexpensive modification, they perform with the very best -- while also offering room correction, crossovers, time alignment, and cool operation.

Although I have no experience with it, the DEQX with three amps of your choosing may be great too.

DU,

Hope you're doing well! Lots of changes since your visit, I now have four fully modded TacT amps doing all the work thanks to an amazing 1MB freeware download from France. The RCS 2.2X is just a digital signal hub and tone generator. I've also moved the speakers to a short wall arrangement and optimized placement of the room treatments. No changes are planned at this point as I'm content

jsalk · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Feb 2007, 02:02 pm »

flintstone -

It sounds like you are very happy with your current speakers. So there is absolutely no good reason to consider anything new. Some people seem to be so busy swapping gear, they never have time to sit back and enjoy the music. And, after all, isn't that what this is all about?

But you did mention that you were only a few miles away and we always love sharing what we do. So if you ever just want to stop by for a listen, you are more than welcome. Consider this an open invitation.

- Jim

flintstone · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Feb 2007, 04:28 pm »

Thanks for the invite Jim, I will take you up on that offer one day (I'm in Grand Blanc)...your speakers are some of the most beautiful examples of fine woodworking I've come across. I have been a music lover all my life (57 years)....interest in high quality speakers and components started in the mid 60's.... My Woodward Avenue days. There have been lots of hifi shops on and around that strip over the years.

I did change speakers and components quite often in my younger years, had lots of "great stuff" come and go over the years. I do understand where the poster is comming from, I have changed components "for the sake of change" myself a few times...I think he is looking in the right areas for that change, ie...hybrids.

Dave