New member: please allow me to introduce myself

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Miss Grundy

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New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« on: 3 May 2021, 10:26 pm »
Greetings all! I'm a new member with a particular interest in attempting to improve audio quality in modest sound reinforcement systems on relatively small performance stages, such as in pubs, clubs, community centers and the like (whenever we can get back to live performance in public). So I'm here to complement my own knowledge and experience with that of other experienced technicians, engineers and performers.

FullRangeMan

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Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #1 on: 3 May 2021, 11:09 pm »
Welcome to AC  :thumb:
I could suggest use Class D amps as the current Crown instead Transistors amps which usually have many transistors in an PA amp output stage, for loudspeakers its more complicated recommend something.

Miss Grundy

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Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #2 on: 4 May 2021, 01:00 am »
My personal bias is toward protecting the hearing of performers, technicians and the general public by reining in high SPLs, and treating sound reinforcement as an aid to intelligibility as opposed to merely making things loud. With regard to enhancing intelligibility, I tend to avoid using microphones that exhibit pronounced proximity effect, which tends to emphasize lower frequencies where the vowels live, and not the upper register where consonants are formed. Where vowels are emphasized at the expense of consonants, one tends to hear that people are speaking as opposed to understanding what they are saying.

FullRangeMan

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Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #3 on: 4 May 2021, 02:01 am »
My personal bias is toward protecting the hearing of performers, technicians and the general public by reining in high SPLs, and treating sound reinforcement as an aid to intelligibility as opposed to merely making things loud. With regard to enhancing intelligibility, I tend to avoid using microphones that exhibit pronounced proximity effect, which tends to emphasize lower frequencies where the vowels live, and not the upper register where consonants are formed. Where vowels are emphasized at the expense of consonants, one tends to hear that people are speaking as opposed to understanding what they are saying.
It seems that you want a very ambitious goal in acoustic treatment, which has to be evaluated and carefully studied on the hall.

Phil A

Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #4 on: 4 May 2021, 11:43 am »
Welcome!

Miss Grundy

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Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #5 on: 4 May 2021, 05:38 pm »
Thanks for the kind words and helpful suggestions. Even in the absence of appropriate acoustical treatment in occasional performance spaces—which may be rejected out of hand by pub, club, and community center owners and facilities managers as being too expensive and, in their view, unnecessary—there are a number of things that sound reinforcement system designers and operators can do to enhance intelligibility. For example, keep SPLs below deafening levels: concerned patrons who choose to stay for the show wearing utility ear plugs or pieces of kleenex or cotton wool in their ears will experience loss of high frequency information and therefore articulation. Those who do not put a barrier in their ears may experience broadband hearing loss, which may be only temporary of they are lucky.

Second, don't use cardioid microphones that exhibit pronounced proximity effect. Re the ubiquitous Shure SM58 "the overwhelming choice of professionals worldwide" according to Shure), the manufacturer notes that it will "progressively boost bass frequencies by 6 to 10 dB below 100 Hz when the microphone is at a distance of about 6 mm (1/4 in.) from the sound source" (SM58_guide_en-US.pdf). Note that 1/4-inch is often the maximum distance at which bar-band singers tend to address the microphone. If such microphones are used, then judicious use of low-frequency roll-off at the mixing console may restore the balance in favor of higher frequencies where consonants are formed, and which are critical for intelligibility. Fortunately, there are alternative microphone choices that do not exhibit proximity effect.

Other individual equipment choices may each contribute an incremental improvement in the quality of the sound reinforcement system (e.g., intelligent feedback elimination in the house or monitor signal chain, Quad-Star microphone cables that cancel electromagnetically induced noise from SCR dimmer packs, fluorescent lighting ballasts and AC power transformers that populate such occasional performance spaces), but when taken together the increments add up.

FullRangeMan

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Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #6 on: 5 May 2021, 06:33 pm »
Thanks for the kind words and helpful suggestions. Even in the absence of appropriate acoustical treatment in occasional performance spaces—which may be rejected out of hand by pub, club, and community center owners and facilities managers as being too expensive and, in their view, unnecessary—there are a number of things that sound reinforcement system designers and operators can do to enhance intelligibility. For example, keep SPLs below deafening levels: concerned patrons who choose to stay for the show wearing utility ear plugs or pieces of kleenex or cotton wool in their ears will experience loss of high frequency information and therefore articulation. Those who do not put a barrier in their ears may experience broadband hearing loss, which may be only temporary of they are lucky.

Second, don't use cardioid microphones that exhibit pronounced proximity effect. Re the ubiquitous Shure SM58 "the overwhelming choice of professionals worldwide" according to Shure), the manufacturer notes that it will "progressively boost bass frequencies by 6 to 10 dB below 100 Hz when the microphone is at a distance of about 6 mm (1/4 in.) from the sound source" (SM58_guide_en-US.pdf). Note that 1/4-inch is often the maximum distance at which bar-band singers tend to address the microphone. If such microphones are used, then judicious use of low-frequency roll-off at the mixing console may restore the balance in favor of higher frequencies where consonants are formed, and which are critical for intelligibility. Fortunately, there are alternative microphone choices that do not exhibit proximity effect.

Other individual equipment choices may each contribute an incremental improvement in the quality of the sound reinforcement system (e.g., intelligent feedback elimination in the house or monitor signal chain, Quad-Star microphone cables that cancel electromagnetically induced noise from SCR dimmer packs, fluorescent lighting ballasts and AC power transformers that populate such occasional performance spaces), but when taken together the increments add up.
These raw anomalies are common in pro-audio microphones, they are not designed to have sound quality because this market rejects sound quality as a necessity, they are built to be cheap, small, resistant to transport and shock during stage assembly.

For sound quality you could check out some studio microphones like Neumann, Sboeps, AKG, Seenheiser etc usually large diaphragm mikes tend to have a good sound, unfortunately I no more remember what are the models suited to hi-fi :duh:

Currently there is many small brands along these big names above.
Its know that Pink Floyd used the Sennheiser 409 or propably a whole modified version.
https://equipboard.com/pros/richard-wright/sennheiser-md-409-n

http://www.tangible-technology.com/microphones/409/409.html


Phil A

Re: New member: please allow me to introduce myself
« Reply #7 on: 5 May 2021, 07:29 pm »
While, it is no longer made, this was a product where one of the largest type of customers were pubs - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030BERMI?tag=vss02-20%E2%80%B3  It has an 80W amp (built in) and RCA ins and outs and one can daisy chain as many together as they need.  So it was common for a bar or pub to buy a bunch of them and hang them up and plug them in.  Polk audio exhibited at one of the early Capital Audiofests (they are just up the road in Baltimore).  I walked in the room and was offered a beer, a bag and a tee shirt.  I looked at the tee shirt and it was a Polk Audio Hitmaster tee shirt.  I asked what was a 'Hitmaster?' and they brought one over to me to look at.  It was $100 list back then and on sale for $80 direct from Polk.  So I bought one.  When I received it, I tested it by plugging in a cheapo electric guitar and a Microsoft Zune portable player.  Was impressed with it for the money so I ordered another.  I'd guess the advent of Bluetooth may have helped push the product out of the market.  They do still make similar things - e.g. https://www.musiciansfriend.com/stage-monitors#N=500040&pageName=subcategory-page&Nao=0&recsPerPage=30&Ns=pLH   or    https://bestgamingpro.com/powered-stage-monitors/  but the Polk Audio product was priced nicely and had lots of inputs and was flexible and easy to daisy chain them together (they referred to it as a gaming stage monitor).