[sunnydaze]

My only other thought is that if the Bryston's is hard to drive (ie: high input sensitivity number)  it is possible that the preamp has insufficient output voltage (ie: low gain)  to drive the amp to full output.  Put this pairing on an insensitive hard to drive speaker that needs an amp that can deliver its full power potential,  and you could experience a weak and flaccid sound.

Any combination of low preamp gain and / or  insensitive amp input and / or insensitive speaker could yield same outcome.

Just a thought.   Not sure if your gear meets these criteria.

[ccpeabody]

Sounds like a gain problem with the Primaluna. Do you have another preamp to try? Actually you do.
Take the Primaluna out of the system and plug the Outlaw's L&R into the Bryston. You will loose 2 surround channels but this is just an experiment. Make sure the volume is real low. 

Switch interconnects, those old Radio Shack freebees got to go (just kidding). Unplug and plug stuff back in, there might be some hidden corrosion.

When I researched new processors after my Outlaw 975 died everything I read pointed to an Anthem AVM60 (now discontinued). The Anthem so far outclassed the Outlaw sound that it was silly. The Bryston/Gershman combo deserve a lot better than the Outlaw. The Anthem AVM70 with ARC Genesis Room Correction balances all your speakers and really works.

Appreciate the response.  I think somewhere along the way I mentioned that I did try a second preamp with the same results so it doesn't appear to be a gain problem.  Additionally, this system has been running beautifully for over a year with several other sets of speakers up front on the Bryston.

As for the Outlaw, I'm very happy with it.  It really has nothing to do with the Bryston and the Gershman's when in two channel and when in HT, the system works well as long as the Gershman's are not part of the equation.  I actually went from an older Anthem to the Outlaw 

Appreciate you taking the time to reply.

[ccpeabody]

My only other thought is that if the Bryston's is hard to drive (ie: high input sensitivity number)  it is possible that the preamp has insufficient output voltage (ie: low gain)  to drive the amp to full output.  Put this pairing on an insensitive hard to drive speaker that needs an amp that can deliver its full power potential,  and you could experience a weak and flaccid sound.

Any combination of low preamp gain and / or  insensitive amp input and / or insensitive speaker could yield same outcome.

Just a thought.   Not sure if your gear meets these criteria.

Good thought... I do have two more preamps lying around somewhere.  At this point, anything is worth a look.

Cheers!

[ccpeabody]

Hi

The 14B would not have any issue down to 2 ohms.

james

I forgot to say thank you James for taking the time to reply.  I used to feel quite fortunate to have the VP of Bryston answering my questions.  Now I have the owner chiming in. 

I'm wondering if it could be a power source problem with the 14B3.  It may not be getting enough power from the BIT20 as the BIT 20 is connected to a generic circuit in our basement that could conceivably have any number of other loads on it.  I'm going to run a separate (dedicated) cct tomorrow and see if it helps.

[sunnydaze]

Appreciate the response.  I think somewhere along the way I mentioned that I did try a second preamp with the same results so it doesn't appear to be a gain problem.  Additionally, this system has been running beautifully for over a year with several other sets of speakers up front on the Bryston.

It could still be a gain problem.....if your other speakers were easier to drive.   We are talking about overall "system gain" here.   It is a function of preamp output / gain, amp input sensitivity, and speaker sensitivity.  They all interact together to produce "system gain".

If you don't have enough "system gain" your speakers will sound impotent and weak.

[ccpeabody]

It could still be a gain problem.....if your other speakers were easier to drive.   We are talking about overall "system gain" here.   It is a function of preamp output / gain, amp input sensitivity, and speaker sensitivity.  They all interact together to produce "system gain".

If you don't have enough "system gain" your speakers will sound impotent and weak.

Yes... agree, it could be.  I'll try a couple of others I have here and see what happens.

[Bemopti123]

To truly throw the variable out, do you have another amp that is not a Bryston to be hooked with the speakers?  Something that gives out at least 100-200 watt, high current?   

Btw, I even ran the X-1 and SW-1 that the reviewer said needed 100 watts high current with an older rebuilt Harman Kardon Twin Transformer receiver from the 1970s, I have the receiver rated at 56 watts at 8 ohm but it give grabbed the speakers by the... 

I think it might be a good idea to swap the amp and see how it works and btw, also split the circuit, but the amp in a different circuit if possible. 

[ccpeabody]

It is a head scratcher.  I am the owner of some older Gershman X-1, SW-1 combos.  The original review stated that it would need a current stable amplifier, anything about 100+ Watts would be ideal.  I ran a DNA-225 with them and it whipped the Gershmans, making them jump at the juice available. 

It is possible that there is an overload in the outlet?  I have experienced less than optimal volumes either when the amp is straining with the speaker, because it did not have sufficient grunt to drive them (mismatch) or I am wonder if the circuit itself is being strained and the amp is not producing what it is capable if the circuit was not strained. 

Let the good people at Gershman check it over.  Perhaps you can ask them what sort of amplification they have used with them at the factory? Good luck with that and let us know what you find out.

It's Bemopti123 for the win 

He suggested that the circuit being overloaded would cause this issue and he was 100% correct.  Apparently, my poor Bryston was starving for current.

Today I installed two 20A dedicated circuits to my listening room.  I plugged my Bryston 14B3 into one and the BIT20 (With all other components connected) to the other.  Volume is back to normal, my front channels are now matched with my surrounds and all is right with the "audio" world.

Thank you to everyone that took time out of their evening to give me a hand.  I really appreciate it and a special thank you to Bemopti123.

[sunnydaze]

Wow...well done Bemopti!      I never would have thought that. 

I will brazenly take partial credit.        I did say there was no way you had an amp / speaker mismatch ...... that the combo should seriously rock out......and that you needed to look elsewhere.

Glad you are sorted out.

[G E]

Wow...well done Bemopti!      I never would have thought that. 

I will brazenly take partial credit.        I did say there was no way you had an amp / speaker mismatch ...... that the combo should seriously rock out......and that you needed to look elsewhere.

Glad you are sorted out.

Now that you gave 20 amp circuits you may as well order the 28’s

[myview]

I have driven my Gershman Acoustics Grande Avant Garde with 4BSST, 4B Cubed, 7B Cubed and 28B Cubed (always partnering either a BP17 Cubed or a BP26) and they all sounded great.  I have even used a B135 cubed and it was still extremely satisfying.  This was not just my subjective view but others who heard the system too. 

My comments are no doubt merely anecdotal.  I am a distributor for both Bryston and Gershman Acoustics.  As James Tanner says “the demo is everything” (or words to that effect!), it is my vested interest that I only showcase equipment that sounds right together for my showroom demos.  I have sold Bryston amps & sources and Gershman speakers (and sometimes, happily both!) with a simple 2-channel set-up.  Both are great brands and they work flawlessly together.