Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?

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wilbur_the_goose

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Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« on: 5 Mar 2021, 02:14 am »
Should I use spikes for a Song3 BeAT placed on a concrete floor with berber carpeting?

JDoyle

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #1 on: 5 Mar 2021, 02:27 am »
I would say no... but I don’t use spikes on carpet, period.

jjss49

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #2 on: 5 Mar 2021, 03:14 am »
spikes just need to get to the solid underfloor for proper grounding, whatever the carpet

thorman

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #3 on: 5 Mar 2021, 12:01 pm »
 I have exactly the same Carpet over Concrete and have found that using a Maple Cutting Board Plinth
 Floating over carpet and speakers spiked to the Plinth works best. I found spiking speakers to the Concrete created more Grainy sound. Much better with Maple Plinth between speakers and Carpet/Concrete.

wilbur_the_goose

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #4 on: 5 Mar 2021, 01:36 pm »
@thorman - where did you get your maple cutting board plinth?

nigelnaim

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #5 on: 5 Mar 2021, 02:03 pm »
I would say no... but I don’t use spikes on carpet, period.

You do not use the spikes for the plinth that come with Salk speakers on carpeting?  I have wood floors underneath my carpeting and I was thinking of trying isoacoustics GAIA's with carpet spikes.

Can you explain in greater detail?

Thanks.

lokie

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #6 on: 5 Mar 2021, 02:49 pm »
I have that flooring as well.
My first response is that experimenting is the only way you'll ever know.
But, after much experimenting, including spikes, I came up wit a diy solution that is very cheap and very effective. It also looks good.
I made mine out of cement but you could use thick wood to make a  base. Make the base the exact same size as your speakers. Mine are rectangular , so it was pretty easy for me. Then put four furniture sliders in the four corners underneath the base. Put another four furniture sliders on top of the base and those will couple with the speakers. If you want to get fancy and spend some more money get 4 Herbies Isolation Dots for the speaker coupling.
I painted the sliders black so they are essentially invisible and it created a "floating" look which goes well with a mid-century aesthetic.
  .
Like I said, experimenting is the way to go but my method is definitely worth a try as it's only about $50 worth of materials.

radiomanjh

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #7 on: 5 Mar 2021, 03:37 pm »
I quit using spikes through carpet to concrete slab years ago. my speakers stands are heavy enough with sand and the speakers sit on them with blu tack on the corners.

Big Red Machine

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #8 on: 5 Mar 2021, 04:56 pm »
I use Gaia's on laminated floor. Chose laminated on purpose for the room having great experiences with Gaia's.

Isolate the speaker, don't spike it, would be my recommendation. Of course, not all of us can have our gear in a non-carpeted room. So with carpeting, I'd go the heavy plinth on the carpet and then isolating feet like Thorman mentions as next best approach.

Once you go with isolators and hear the improvement, spikes will be history.


timind

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #9 on: 5 Mar 2021, 06:30 pm »
I needed more height with these speakers so used a plinth made from MDF. The plinth is spiked to concrete through the berber and the speaker spikes are resting in floor protectors. I tried GAIAs but felt the bass suffered quite a bit.

Craig B

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #10 on: 5 Mar 2021, 06:30 pm »
You need to decide first if your speakers need to be coupled to the floor or isolated from it. In my experience, spikes are great for coupling and bad for isolation.

thorman

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #11 on: 5 Mar 2021, 07:32 pm »
 I purchased the Maple Blocks from Butcher Block Acoustics...Very reasonably priced and great quality with a few options too.

Mark Korda

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #12 on: 5 Mar 2021, 07:55 pm »
Hi Wilbur, all the spikes at Parts Express come with a little dime size footing to protect your rug. They have a little dimple or hole to prevent any movement in the center. I tried to cut and paste but it didn't work. Go to Parts Express and then (spikes) and you'll get the picture. I like the maple idea too ! If the theory is the spikes must touch wooden flooring as a grunt whose ripped up lots of rugs, the point of the spike, if not moved around laterally  as most subs wouldn't, would not be detectable and would also be around a wall most of the time......I use those Parts Express footings even though my rugs seen better days...Mark Korda

jjss49

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #13 on: 5 Mar 2021, 11:01 pm »
i know a lot of people have used the gaia type isolators for speakers and say they work great... but i must admit i have a hard time with the concept...

seems to me it is about grounding the (dynamic) speaker to a solid footing surface so its drivers have as solid a platform to act from once a electrical drive signal is given representing the sound to be produced ... a good foundation is what provides a zero base to develop sound waves...  anyhoo...

wilbur_the_goose

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #14 on: 5 Mar 2021, 11:21 pm »
"You do not use the spikes for the plinth that come with Salk speakers on carpeting?  I have wood floors underneath my carpeting and I was thinking of trying isoacoustics GAIA's with carpet spikes.

Can you explain in greater detail?"

I just got my speakers yesterday, and I didn't install the spikes.   My old speakers were spiked, and they were a royal pain to move.

I have no clue as to whether treatments (spikes or whatever) would make any positive difference on a concrete slab with short berber carpeting on top.

wilbur_the_goose

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #15 on: 5 Mar 2021, 11:23 pm »
Thanks, @Thorman

I found that company and liked what I saw.  They're based in California, and ironically they say their products are made in Bally, PA - which is about 15 miles north of me.   

thorman

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #16 on: 6 Mar 2021, 01:21 am »
No problem ....I just measured the base of my Speakers and added 2" extra all around.  My speakers are 12" x 12" ,so I ordered 16" square. This gives a 2" extra all around .  Good Luck....

Big Red Machine

Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #17 on: 6 Mar 2021, 02:16 pm »
"You do not use the spikes for the plinth that come with Salk speakers on carpeting?  I have wood floors underneath my carpeting and I was thinking of trying isoacoustics GAIA's with carpet spikes.

Can you explain in greater detail?"

I just got my speakers yesterday, and I didn't install the spikes.   My old speakers were spiked, and they were a royal pain to move.

I have no clue as to whether treatments (spikes or whatever) would make any positive difference on a concrete slab with short berber carpeting on top.

Not an expert, I can offer this; the cabinet is a resonating box. As stiff as any mfg'r makes their cabinets, they do resonate. BY spiking them, you are not necessarily draining that resonance but changing it based on the interaction of the spike, floor, and weight of the cabinet. Now I'm 100% confident Jim doesn't design the cabinets hanging by cables if you're headed there. :wink: I always used Jim's spikes on all 6 of the 7 pairs of Salk's I owned. I ended up with Gaia's on the Exoticas after I started with the solid copper feet and then on the Wilsons and really liked how they cleaned up the bass. The Wilsons weigh about 200 lbs each so that changes things. The Exoticas were heavy, and mine were more so with my steel plinths. YMMV I'll never have a carpeted floor again under my stereos because I'm sold on the Gaia concept (they don't glide btw, they stick to the floor. Almost like suction cups.)

Funny story: I took a left speaker to Jim twice because it kept buzzing. He couldn't find anything wrong with the speaker. Turned out the spikes were not quite all touching evenly and when I cranked her up a skosh, the spike would buzz on the floor. It was not touching on all 4 points (my bad). So something to spend a little more time on, especially with carpet, pad, and concrete. I was going direct to a laminate floor.

If you have carpet then use the spikes if you don't want to mess with an interim plate. The speaker is not going to sound 100% different either way. That's a fine tuning thing you can always do later. Spike them and play them. Get to know them before tweaking.

wilbur_the_goose

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #18 on: 6 Mar 2021, 02:43 pm »
Thanks to all!   

Looks like I need to do some more research on coupling v isolating.   But for now, my Salks are on their plinths and sound wonderful

jjss49

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Re: Spikes on concrete floor with berber carpeting?
« Reply #19 on: 6 Mar 2021, 04:15 pm »
while i can understand there are cabinet resonances and damping footers can minimize them, it also seems that in doing so, it makes the physical grounding squishy instead of solid, so bass and transient response must become compromised as a result... i know everything has inherent tradeoffs... i suppose that would be the argument here