Solving the floor space issue with subs and separate tower speakers (NX-Otica's)

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #20 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 04:36 pm »

So I tweaked the current designs a bit further.. (including more accurate sizing of the open wing)

Seeing how the NX-Tremes are a line-array, i was curious if it would be more beneficial to move one Sub to the top of the array to better balance the acoustic load of the room, without adding too much excess weight.. Tho i imagine adjustments & bracing may be required to support the extra weight, especially on the opened wing, and at the base... (But I'm no engineer)

For the "smaller," center design it may be possible to fit both of them on either wing, given the extra width provided by the front baffle. It would allow for better weight distribution, and I'm certain a quad versions could also be made possible, so long as clearances and acoustics allow.. (i dont have proper measurments of the rear width, so i might've drawn it wider than it would actually appear, but im okay with that, cuz it makes visualization easier.)

Tho no I'm curious how it would work if the full NX-T array was installed.. (all 8 woofers) eg if the subs would interfere with the woofers, leading to unwanted distortion? As I've design it now, the top/rear of the bottom woofer would be solid to house the crossover, and the bottom of the top woofer would also be solid.

I feel like there's some potential here, but I'll defer that to Danny, and those that know far more than me..

Sonicjoy · « **Reply #21 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 05:54 pm »

Wow! Very creative Hobbs. Regarding the side opening, I don't think it's that critical if you shorten up the bottom of it to fit the sub top. Look at photos of the NX-Otica MTM. It has the bottom plate closer to the mid/woofers. Though they may have an adjusted network. But it should be doable.

Now (here comes another idea) if we used the W frame design subs we could make the them a little shorter and that would allow for the full size wing opening. We'll get these dialed in yet!

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #22 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 06:18 pm »

Thanks, SonicJoy! Its been fun toying around with the designs!

Assuming you want to keep the height as close to 7' a full array, with quad W frame subs, you're basically looking at the NX-Tremes standing on a pair of really wide subs as bases, and that would force them to be well over 8-feet high. Alternatively, it could be left to 3 sets of pairs, on either side of the MTM. Keeping the height closer to 7' tall.
Either way, it will end up looking like an inverted "T" breaking the overall design aesthetics, and making them even less likely to work in tighter spaces...

But i guess it just depends on how determined you are to keep the overall design language.
Cuz it'd be easier to just have 2 subs up top & 2 on the bottom.
Or the inverted NX-Otica model with 2 subs facing outward each direction?

Early B. · « **Reply #23 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 06:53 pm »

I'm ready to place my order for a flat pack for the 4th one from the left! This one is far more wife friendly, shorter, and probably lower in cost/build.

Although I like one of the subs on top, it may create issues, not only with balance and design, but the long wires from the top woofer to the amp isn't something Danny would recommend.

In either case, Danny would have to weigh in on the pros and cons of the woofer orientation on sound quality for each of the options. Plus, bracing may be a challenge for the top woofer alternative. You'd have to space out the midrange drivers and brace the entire enclosure to prevent ringing. Of course, that would require tweaking the crossover.

Geez -- the more I think about it, I've come full circle to the initial design with the H-frame on the bottom. It's a proven design.

Sonicjoy · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 06:55 pm »

You must have missed where I said I backed off of the quad sub idea as too big and ugly. I'm still talking about two 12" drivers in a vertical line with the rest of the drivers. The 2 sub drivers could be used in a W frame configuration which will allow for a shorter enclosure thus allowing the main speaker enclosure to go lower so the side wing opening can be full size. I hope that makes sense.

Have you seen the W frame sub design?

Early B. · « **Reply #25 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:00 pm »

Quote from: Sonicjoy on 9 Apr 2020, 06:55 pm

Have you seen the W frame sub design?

Not a fan of the W frame design. I started my OB servo sub journey with a W. H is better.

Sonicjoy · « **Reply #26 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:01 pm »

Ya we really some professional help!

But hey it is fun!

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #27 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:03 pm »

Oh! I misunderstood, I was assuming a quad W design for some reason..

But i'll see what I can do!

Sonicjoy · « **Reply #28 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:06 pm »

So whats the issue with the W frame? I'm sure the H frame will be fine. Just trying to solve the side wing opening size but I doubt it's much of an issue anyway. Thanks for the input Early B.

Sonicjoy · « **Reply #29 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:07 pm »

That's ok Hobbs. You don't have to. Sounds like the W frame is not the best idea.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #30 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:15 pm »

No worries!
The shorter model is basically a W frame, just with a larger distance between the two subs and facing outward from the center.
But I'd like to see if Danny has any input on options too.

Early B. · « **Reply #31 on:** 9 Apr 2020, 07:28 pm »

Quote from: Sonicjoy on 9 Apr 2020, 07:06 pm

So whats the issue with the W frame?

Hardly anyone makes W's anymore. It's been many years, so I don't recall the exact technical reason why the H is superior to the W. Of course, Danny can tell you. One thing is for certain, though -- the H is a stronger frame.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 Apr 2020, 12:06 am »

Okay, incorporating the subs inline was a rather difficult to do, esp in a way that makes sense, but also wasn't ugly as hell, or just the original idea... (Far left)

So I recessed the woofers into the frame. Probably further back than is practical, large openings in the front and side baffels to keep them as open as possible. But they'll 100% need extra bracing to support the extra weight, or a larger, centeral brace/baffle with two large open baffles for each woofer, but i feel that looses the general design aesthetic.. unless you want to get creative with a custom grill across the base to contain the subs, which could be pretty cool if done well..

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #33 on:** 10 Apr 2020, 01:16 am »

Here’s something that might be a little more appealing to look at and gives a bit of an electric church organ vibe.
Personally I still prefer the slightly smaller option with dual bottom woofers, plus it’s also less complicated to build.. or the taller Otica with dual subs to one side.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #34 on:** 10 Apr 2020, 06:46 pm »

I just realized that these designs have basically become a blend of the Otica/Extreme and the old OB-7+.. the shorter line-array design especially..

So I guess its not entirely farfetched... haha
But maybe it could lead to an to an official NX-Otica+?

Sonicjoy · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 Apr 2020, 08:09 pm »

Hey you never know. You might just come up with the next big thing. Very creative Hobbs.

AKLegal · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 Apr 2020, 09:27 pm »

Recess mounting the subs is brilliant. That's all.

Early B. · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Apr 2020, 02:27 am »

Quote from: AKLegal on 10 Apr 2020, 09:27 pm

Recess mounting the subs is brilliant. That's all.

No doubt.

Looks good, weight seems balanced, no crossover re-design (?), and the bars will keep curious little hands away from the woofers.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 Apr 2020, 03:08 am »

Thanks, y'all!
To my knowledge, none of the designs should require any changes to the crossovers, since it all is designed around the NX-Otica drivers, only difference being its orientation, or a "minor" reconfiguration into a line-array, but that shouldn't require any major changes?
I imagine that even a single recessed woofer is also possible, but i think it would probably work best either sealed or rear ported and possibly down-firing? (Mostly guessing since no single OB subs are ever mentioned..)

But its definitely been an interesting exercise coming up with & tweaking these ideas!

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 Apr 2020, 04:20 pm »

From the X-Static thread:

Quote from: Chops on 9 Apr 2020, 08:03 pm

Not following, but I did see it. The few things I see wrong with those options mentioned in your thread are...

1) The lower midrange will be close to the top panel of the OB sub, "boxing" in that midrange a bit in the rear causing undesirable reflections and cavity resonances for that midrange driver.

2) If mounting the 12" drivers on the side panels, those panels will most likely be too small, thus having to add more EQ and power, and more vibration in the loudspeaker as a whole. You would need a ton more bracing on those panels which would also most likely add more cavity resonances.

3) Placing the woofers on the side panels like that, you are effectively putting yourself right smack in the side null of those woofers, which means you would be getting very weak to no bass at all in your listening position.

These are good observations, especially the latter two..
I'm not sure how affected the lower midwoofer would be, esp when its not much different from the Otica-MTM on a servo sub stack?

As for the side mounted Woofers, extra bracing and thicker side walls will be required in any configuration, but your 3rd point definitely makes the most sense, and would require sealed (or ported) subs to still be effective, eap since OB subs do load the room differently.

I know Danny no longer offers 8" Servo-subs, but under the circumstances, that would likely be the most effective way to front-mount any subs, give a little extra breathing room to the lower midwoofer, and would also allow for thicker & deeper base walls, while still maintaining OB functionality.. it would also be easier to recess the 8" Subs if a more traditional look was desired as well..

But without 8" subs available, it's almost pointless to consider, unless you source them from other Rythmik subs, but they're not likely to have Danny's paper cones which are better suited for OB.