[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

I have been wondering about this recently - with the world moving towards 'Streaming' as the main source of most peoples listening experience do you think 'Library Management Systems' like ROON etc. continue to be popular?

james

[zoom25]

For people that are just starting out, streaming is what majority of the people will go for rather than building their own local catalog. You just pay a monthly fee and you get almost all the music you can have right at your fingertips without the hassle or price of buying out albums, and maintaining a library. These streaming services also allow for playlist so you can make your library within them.

I have Roon and Spotify. I have auditioned Tidal twice and had Sony's Unlimited Music many years ago. I found Spotify to be far above what Tidal had to offer in terms of a larger catalog, curated playlists that actually made sense, having a UI that's much better. I stick with Spotify for offline playback and when travelling. I know other services offer lossless, but I'll take Spotify's MP3 over the lossless offered by other services. If Spotify ever did go lossless, that'd be the only time I'd consider it.

With respect to Roon, there are people that love the integration of those streaming services within Roon. Unfortunately, Spotify will never integrate into Roon, so for myself, Roon is just local music. Since I have a big local library, I don't feel the need to have a streaming service associated with Roon. Also, paying for two streaming services doesn't make sense (to me).

If I was listening only via streaming services, I don't think I'd pay for Roon on top of that just to get a different interface for that streaming service. I'd try to use the streaming service natively. Although, in mine and many other people's cases, we wouldn't go with anything but Spotify, so Roon integration is DOA.

I think people with big libraries or that need a specific feature of Roon (multi zone) will still continue to find Roon useful. Although, I do come across frequent posts of people complaining about classical music integration and organization.

Roon with a streaming service alone only makes sense if you make use of Roon's features and try to make your own library. If you're simply using Roon for basic playback, it's too expensive as just an alternative interface.

There's actually a thread or two on Roon's users of how many people have just local music vs. streaming service, or both, and how many songs from each category. That might be useful to look at as well.

[OTM]

For some of us in a rural area with limited band width and the high data costs is a barrier to streaming. For now my own bb2 local library is the way to go.
David

[NekoAudio]

I don't consider Roon to provide _any_ library management features. You can edit or select a preference for metadata, but that goes into the local Roon database and doesn't touch your files. Rather Roon provides multi-service discovery (MSD) for music which no one else really does well—there is MSD for other stuff, e.g. Samsung Bixby, Siri, Alexa, Roku, iOS/Android's -1 screen.

There are other "power features" that Roon provides, like multi-zone management, DSP, etc. but most of the time what you're using is the discover, search, and playback features. I definitely find some of these features very useful.

Roon has to constantly maintain their online metadata database of music sources in order to support some of the more advanced features of the MSD functionality, like similarities, Roon Radio, etc. This includes music that is released on streaming services it integrates with like Tidal and Qobuz. It can't do that without constant work, and it can't provide the features it promises without the metadata database (i.e. it cannot implement those features based on the relatively limited data you _might_ have tagged into a music file).

But to manage your actual individual libraries, you still need to use some other software. For example, iTunes for your locally ripped music; the Qobuz app to purchase or download music, or add to your favorites to to create Qobuz-specific playlists; a tag editor to edit file metadata; your computer or NAS UI to organize files on disk.

[Mike-48]

I suppose by 'streaming' you mean using a service like Tidal or Qobuz, not streaming one's own files to a DAC.

The usefulness of Roon varies by user. Many people listen to music as background and don't care much about the music other than the artist named on the label -- the 'iTunes model.' For those people, Roon wouldn't be worth the cost.

For classical music lovers who care about details, using Tidal or Qobuz without Roon is an exercise in frustration. Their cataloging apparently was done by monkeys, and particular recordings are usually hard to find; details about the artists are hit-and-miss. A Roon subscription makes Quobuz or Tidal useful in a way it isn't without Roon. It could serve as one's primary library. I think much of that is true of serious jazz lovers, too.

The other sort of person who benefits from Roon is one with a large collection of music files that are poorly tagged. Roon does the work and allows finding anything, making your library much more fun.

If you have both sources, Roon integrates your library and your subscription nicely.

I personally don't use Roon now. I have a large library that was carefully tagged before Roon existed, and I use Qobuz only occasionally. The cost and complexity of Roon -- to do it right, I'd need another dedicated computer -- have deterred me, along with having to learn, and adapt my music library to, the idiosyncratic Roon GUI.

I use JRiver as a player and an excellent library manager. It can be a streaming server, too, and its tag editing features are outstanding. It's quite a high-quality audio toolkit at lower cost and hardware requirements than Roon.

[James Tanner]

But lets assume given the power and resources with streaming companies like Spotify and Amazon and Qobuz etc. do you think their platform will evolve into a more 'library' based system thereby providing full service (downloads, library, streaming) to their customers?

james

[Mesanjah05]

Sorry if this question diverts from Mr Tanner's OP, but I thought one strength of Roon was it's ability to coordinate multiple sources of stored music, l.e., itunes plus a connected NAS.  This should then render unnecessary changing the direction in Manic Moose to a source.  So if the coordinated function is true Roon provides a very valuable function added to it's data resource.  Am understanding this wrong?

[Mike-48]

But lets assume given the power and resources with streaming companies like Spotify and Amazon and Qobuz etc. do you think their platform will evolve into a more 'library' based system thereby providing full service (downloads, library, streaming) to their customers?

james

No, I don't think so. They are focused on providing the maximum number of tracks for the lowest cost, and that appeals to the majority of customers. There always will be room for someone to offer a better service, aimed at the true music aficionado, and that's where Roon comes in.

It's parallel to the difference between stereo equipment for the masses and the gear made by "high-end" audio manufacturers.

[dpatters]

Roon is a great content management system, however I feel it degrades sound quality. I set up a music server with Roon core, Tidal, and ripped my cd collection to hard drive. I ended up uninstalling it and went back to spinning CDs and vinyl.

Don P

[NekoAudio]

But lets assume given the power and resources with streaming companies like Spotify and Amazon and Qobuz etc. do you think their platform will evolve into a more 'library' based system thereby providing full service (downloads, library, streaming) to their customers?

If specifically talking about downloads, the library concept, and streaming, then the big companies already provide libraries.

Amazon's implementation is a bit less cohesive, but you can buy digital music from Amazon, which will show up in your "Purchased" music. If you buy a physical CD, a digital copy may also show up in your "Purchased" music. This may only be available if you're an Amazon Prime member, I'm not sure. "Prime Music" is different than "Amazon Music Unlimited". I believe it is correct to consider any Amazon music library to exist in the Amazon AWS Cloud. Accessing your music is either via the web browser or an Amazon Music app.

Apple has similar functionality: streaming via Apple Music, iTunes purchases, your locally ripped iTunes library, etc. In this case, your library exists locally, and you use Apple's Home Sharing or Apple Music.

Google Play Music lets you create and manage a digital music library in the Google Cloud, with a 50,000 song limit. Then you can play back this music via your web browser or the Google Play Music apps. Those features are free. You can also optionally subscribe to Google Play Music for access to more streaming music.

Qobuz has streaming, purchases (for playback even after you cancel your subscription), and downloads (importing to the local cache) for offline playback without purchasing. I don't feel like Qobuz is as close to the library concept as the other three services mentioned above, but you can tag favorites, create playlists, and there are separate sections for your purchases and downloads. You have to use a Qobuz app.

[mcmusicman]

I use a Hybrid solution that does both local library management & streaming service management. The software is Audirvana and it is my primary source these days. Benefits include custom playlists formed from my Qobuz account, operating system changes to produce bit perfect reproduction and elimination of interference in the signal path, seamless toggle between local libraries and the Qobuz library as well as importing from network sources and a remote feature that allows smart phone control.  The sound from Audirvana to my DAC and then my 4B3 is simply stunning.  While I enjoyed Spotify indexing and recommendation features, there is no comparison regarding sound quality. Playing from the Qobuz app directly falls short as well. I imagine the future will be such hybrid network software solutions as powerful fan-less computers continue to develop with solid state drive technology. The noise floor just seems to get lower and lower.  Companies such as Audirvana who focus only on software and controls will likely have an edge over streaming platforms that must manage Artists, Contracts, Marketing etc and still try and compete with their virtual player software.  Another strength of virtual players is the constant ability to upgrade without being locked into a hardware based device that rapidly becomes obsolete versus simply transferring your virtual player to another device. Portability can be as simple as moving a tablet and the capability to run on battery eliminates power supply noise issues.  People want it all; portability, streaming and local library management for purchased or owned music.